NationStates Jolt Archive

With the american focusing on terrorism perhaps the american domestic intelligence services should be sure to keep as keen an eye on the Irish as on the Arabs, as the Irish are known for their terrorism.

I call the nameless faceless redhead who's going to blow us up Patty O'Sama

Hey, no dissing the Irish. They have a noble pre-Christian Celtic heritage, which absolves them for some of their current problems.

The Irish have plans of world domination and forced conversion/dhimmitude now?

The Irish have plans of world domination and forced conversion/dhimmitude now?


The threat of world domination and forced conversion ended with the fall of the USSR, we're talking about terrorism.

Please stay on topic.

The threat of world domination and forced conversion ended with the fall of the USSR, we're talking about terrorism.

Please stay on topic.
Did you ever listen to the crap Osama spouted? Apparently not.

Did you ever listen to the crap Osama spouted? Apparently not.



Why would I care what the boogeyman supposedly says?

I'm a realist.

I am an American, who is part Irish and English among many things. True, some Irish, like some Americans and similar people in each nation on this planet are involved with terriorism, but not all Irish, like not all Arabs, Americans or anyone else is a terriorist. The IRA has no qualms with U.S at all, and won't attack U.S. Now for the British, it was there fault of Invading a Keltic group of people who were catholic not protestant and oppressing them. we have to know why this all happened. You can say that with the british, with Ulster and those terriorist groups.

It was mainly the Celtic Protestant Scottish who moved into Ulster.

What the hell is "dhimmitude"?

Yeah but you cant call an englishman or a scot "patty o'sama"

What the hell is "dhimmitude"?
oppression of non muslims

What the hell is "dhimmitude"?


Does it really matter?

Yeah but you cant call an englishman or a scot "patty o'sama"
i was addressing celtic pride who appears to think a bunch of anglo saxons came into ulster and massacred irishmen. when in fact ulster was taken over by scots

i was addressing celtic pride who appears to think a bunch of anglo saxons came into ulster and massacred irishmen. when in fact ulster was taken over by scots


The europeans invaded the middle east and gave it quite a fucking-over yet the arabs are still taken to account for their terrorism.

The europeans invaded the middle east and gave it quite a fucking-over yet the arabs are still taken to account for their terrorism.
i know, i'm just showing that the plantation of ireland was not a situation of anglo saxons versus celts, it was much more complex than that

The Irish only inflict pain upon themselves, and maybe a little bit on the Brits. My point is, the world at large has nothing to fear from the Irish. Except maybe during World Cup..!

Just give all of Ireland back to the Irish...please. And then this thread wouldn't even exist.

the irish do need watching. here are their plans for global domination.

cliky clik clik (http://ciarraide.org/culture.html)

As you can see, they do not care for wiccans or pagans either.

If love of family and tradition equates to global domination, then I suppose you are correct.

The Irish only inflict pain upon themselves, and maybe a little bit on the Brits. My point is, the world at large has nothing to fear from the Irish. Except maybe during World Cup..!

Just give all of Ireland back to the Irish...please. And then this thread wouldn't even exist.


Ireland's proximity to England establishes the natural right of the English to retain the irish island in their United Kingdrom.

That is BS, and you know it. If that were true, Canada would be America's 51st state.

That is BS, and you know it. If that were true, Canada would be America's 51st state.


The welsh and the scots are part of the UK, as should be the Irish.

Also, the americans have no natural right to the land they moved into a few hundred years ago.

The welsh and the scots are part of the UK, as should be the Irish.

Also, the americans have no natural right to the land they moved into a few hundred years ago.
Actually, it was the British that moved in.

Also, the americans have no natural right to the land they moved into a few hundred years ago.

:confused: Why not. And if not how long do we have to be here before we get one.

i know, i'm just showing that the plantation of ireland was not a situation of anglo saxons versus celts, it was much more complex than that
the territory of teh celts also extended to cover scotland, especially the highlands...

hell, even france and germany and galatia were celtic territories.

Ireland's proximity to England establishes the natural right of the English to retain the irish island in their United Kingdrom.
fuck that.

the english should let scotland be its own country too.

The welsh and the scots are part of the UK, as should be the Irish.

Also, the americans have no natural right to the land they moved into a few hundred years ago.

Your logic is flawed in that the Gaels have been in Ireland for as long as any British tribe has been in Britain. England has no natural claim to Ireland or the people who inhabit it. They've only had a real presence there for 300 years of a 5000 year history. You need to look at the entire history of the islands, not just at what happened after the English subjugated and oppressed her neighbors to the west.

you all need to be educated... if some anglo-saxons came into some damn celtic territory and proved to be the better society, then let it be. there is nothing that you can do about it. and if you even had any clues as to what happened hundreds of years ago, you would know that the celts fought more amongst themselves than anyone else

It was mainly the Celtic Protestant Scottish who moved into Ulster.

...who were descendents of people who were originally located in Ireland and then moved to Scotland... just to confuse things.

Your logic is flawed in that the Gaels have been in Ireland for as long as any British tribe has been in Britain. England has no natural claim to Ireland or the people who inhabit it.
The UK has a claim to northern Ireland because the north is populated by Protestant Scotsmen (Ulstermen) who wish to stay loyal to the British crown.
They've only had a real presence there for 300 years of a 5000 year history.
5000 year old history has little relevance for today's politics; if we are to look that far back, the United States has no right to exist, the US should be turned over to the indians.
You need to look at the entire history of the islands, not just at what happened after the English subjugated and oppressed her neighbors to the west.
The story of Ireland is far far more complex than English vs. Irish. Since the 1600s there have been Protestant Scottish settlers in northern Ireland, who frequently fought with both the Irish and English, though eventually the Protestant Scots in N. Ireland became more attached to the UK.

The British Isles rightfully belong to the Beaker People, who will return one day and govern their Empire from Skerrabra.

The British Isles rightfully belong to the Beaker People, who will return one day and govern their Empire from Skerrabra.

I agree. http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

This whole thing is a joke right?

Either way, there are worse people who could take over the world than the Irish...screw that, I hope they succeed, I bow down to my Irish leaders!

the irish do need watching. here are their plans for global domination.

cliky clik clik (http://ciarraide.org/culture.html)

As you can see, they do not care for wiccans or pagans either.
All that proves is that the irish are a bunch of rough and tumble, honorable, and insular bastards. They don't really have any grand plan.

All that proves is that the irish are a bunch of rough and tumble, honorable, and insular bastards. They don't really have any grand plan.

Yes, but I like these bits.



Heroism is to our people what enlightenment is to other cultures. Glory is a goal to be sought, to be fought for and respected. Heroism is the life's blood of our people; our driving force that keeps us going. We are not a race of etheric pacifists, nor of dreaming mystics, we are a race of heroes. Our people put ourselves at risk with a laugh where others fear to tread, especially for a noble cause. To rescue children from a burning building with no thought for one's self, or to stay at one's post and fight, even though you know you will die, that is glory, and that is what drives us. Greed, power, influence, wealth, hedonism, etc. may drive the cultures of other people, but not ours. We judge men and women by their deeds and songs of their valor and glory, not by their wallet and checking account.



This latter drive is made all the stronger by the mass incidents of cultural rape by everyone from trinket salesmen to the Wiccan and neopagan communities trying to usurp our cultural elements and iconography for their own new age beliefs in a vain attempt to give them legitimacy.

I wouldn't care to profess any neo-pagan leanings around them.

Also, the first one makes me think they are out looking for a fight.

God invented alcohol to hold the irish back. lol

I wouldn't care to profess any neo-pagan leanings around them.

Also, the first one makes me think they are out looking for a fight.
Heh, my friend Jill would rip into them for that last bit. She's both Wiccan and near pureblood Irish. Has the temper to prove it too. She takes her shit seriously, and woe betide anyone who disparages such in her presence. Of course, I get the feeling they are talking about the new-age isn't this cool hippie version of Wiccans, which seems to compose from my experience about 85% of the community. Then you have the faux-goth wiccan types which compose another 12% or so. That leaves about 3% who truly honor their beliefs, critics be damned. Besides which, since when aren't the Irish looking for a fight?

That is the real irony of terroism - the IRA have being funded by private American investors who seem to think that having a great granddad who was Irish makes them celtic, and honour bound to help the IRA slaughter those evil British innocent civilians. Yet, the same people adamantly want the Palestinians to remain under Israeli control in a very similar situation. The only difference is it is only a part of a country which is under control, and if they really really did not want to live there they have the majority of the rest of Ireland to move to - the Palestinians have no other place.

fuck that.

the english should let scotland be its own country too.
Dont be rediculous, I am Scottish and the majority of my countryman vote for unionist parties- if we wanted to be indepenent we would be. :rolleyes:

the Palestinians have no other place.
Given that the palestinians are basically Jordanians they do have a place. Or rather they would, if any arab country in the area would accept palestinian refugees as citizens after residing in said countries for a number of years. They don't, because if they did the pressure would be taken off the israeli's. That and I don't think the IRA puts out propaganda that's anywhere near what the palestinians put out.

God invented alcohol to hold the irish back. lol

Yeah, but the sun never set on the British Empire because God didn't trust the bastards in the dark...

Just give all of Ireland back to the Irish...please. And then this thread wouldn't even exist.

What a terrible idea. We'd get all those crazed unionists moving back over here to the 'motherland'! eek!

And Irish terrorism has had terrible consequences, like NO bins at train stations. It's more annoying than you'd think!

God invented alcohol to hold the irish back. lol

Ironic then that alcohol is probably their biggest or at least best known exported good

I really resent this attitude that the IRA isn't/wasn't anything to worry about.

Of course "compared to what happened at 911 it isn't", comparatively, as a singular event, not its not.

What people don't realise however is that the UK has had to live with the results of Irish terrorism for around 90 years now. That's assassinations, bombings, kidnappings, and general murder.

And we're not talking about legitimate targets here, we're talking about kids being shot, people in pubs or just walking along being shot because of their religion.

In part again, you're right the IRA isn't something to be as worried about in your daily life now because of so many of the agreements brought into place in the last 20 years.

This does not mean that should they choose, they would not be a force to reckoned with. You want to talk about middle eastern terrorists? Who do you think taught many of them their tactics and training techniques? You're right, the IRA.

So next time you think the IRA wasn't all that bad remember that they've bombed and killed just like Al Qaeda, and spare a thought that just because it never happened to your country/men doesn't mean it's alright.

And finally, remember that those deaths and terrorist actions were acerbated by US funding.

Kusarii makes a very good point.

To all those Americans who claim that the IRA aren't terrorists and all their actions are justified, just imagine this situation:
A group of native-americans of any tribe decide that they want their land back. Say it's one of the northern tribes. To achieve their goals they start bombing random civilian locations in the south such as Atlanta, Orlando and even small out of the way towns. Would you then support them as noble fighters of a just cause? To add insult to injury, the British government turns a blind eye to its own citizens monetary contributions.

Personally I think that the control of Northern Ireland should be handed over to NATO to give it something to do. Both sides would be so pissed off they'd discover that they hold a lot in common and maybe become friends again (/idealism!)

The english have the natural right to control the irish because in comparison to the english character and moral fortitude that of the irish is savage.

The scots and welsh have the presence of mind to gravitate towards the beacon of english civilization but the irish must be forced, as fourced they ought to be and we should hope shall.


The americans are themselves of base character and as such have no natural right to their land, whereas the canadians are an enlightened society and by that viture do, time abiding nonwithstanding.

The english have the natural right to control the irish because in comparison to the english character and moral fortitude that of the irish is savage.

The scots and welsh have the presence of mind to gravitate towards the beacon of english civilization but the irish must be forced, as fourced they ought to be and we should hope shall.


The americans are themselves of base character and as such have no natural right to their land, whereas the canadians are an enlightened society and by that viture do, time abiding nonwithstanding.
Nah, the english just corrupted the scottish bastards with gold.

Nah, the english just corrupted the scottish bastards with gold.

Scots are actually a brilliant people, scotsmen are responsible for many great modern inventions.

Scots are actually a brilliant people, scotsmen are responsible for many great modern inventions.
This doesn't change that the scots were bought out by the british.


Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory!
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name.
Sae famed in martial story!
Now Sark rins over Salway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue
Thro' many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O, would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour
I'll mak this declaration :-
'We're bought and sold for English gold'--
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

This doesn't change that the scots were bought out by the british.


Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory!
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name.
Sae famed in martial story!
Now Sark rins over Salway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue
Thro' many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O, would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour
I'll mak this declaration :-
'We're bought and sold for English gold'--
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!


I sense an bit of envy here of the great scots who are Scotsman and Britons too, and rightly proud of it.

I am an American, who is part Irish and English among many things. True, some Irish, like some Americans and similar people in each nation on this planet are involved with terriorism, but not all Irish, like not all Arabs, Americans or anyone else is a terriorist. The IRA has no qualms with U.S at all, and won't attack U.S. Now for the British, it was there fault of Invading a Keltic group of people who were catholic not protestant and oppressing them. we have to know why this all happened. You can say that with the british, with Ulster and those terriorist groups.

PIRA has qualms with the current U.S administration but will not attack as it would peeve many Irish-Americans who have been so kindly funding them.

Ireland's proximity to England establishes the natural right of the English to retain the irish island in their United Kingdrom.

England's proximity to France establishes the natural right of the French to invade and dominate England. That makes about as much sense as what you said. :headbang: Why did I even bother to answer him? :confused:

Actually, it was the British that moved in.

And the French as well as the Spanish.

England's proximity to France establishes the natural right of the French to invade and dominate England. That makes about as much sense as what you said. :headbang: Why did I even bother to answer him? :confused
they did invade and dominate England.

the irish do need watching. here are their plans for global domination.

cliky clik clik (http://ciarraide.org/culture.html)

As you can see, they do not care for wiccans or pagans either.
They're going to attack us with a chariot?

The welsh and the scots are part of the UK, as should be the Irish.

Also, the americans have no natural right to the land they moved into a few hundred years ago.
Yeah, but so did the Canadians.

Eire has the right to Unification and Liberation any means necassary to do this is acceptable.
Terrorists: No
Freedom Fighters: Yes

England's proximity to France establishes the natural right of the French to invade and dominate England. That makes about as much sense as what you said. :headbang: Why did I even bother to answer him? :confused


As has been pointed out such was the case.

Besides, the french culture is perhaps the worlds finest.

The story of Ireland is far far more complex than English vs. Irish. Since the 1600s there have been Protestant Scottish settlers in northern Ireland, who frequently fought with both the Irish and English, though eventually the Protestant Scots in N. Ireland became more attached to the UK.

There is a bit of confused, distorted, and incomplete Irish history here. May I suggest a book called "The Course of Irish History" by Moody and Martin. About 400 pages and takes you from the prehistoric times to the present.

Eire has the right to Unification and Liberation any means necassary to do this is acceptable.
Terrorists: No
Freedom Fighters: Yes
sorry but...i had to laugh

Eire has the right to Unification and Liberation any means necassary to do this is acceptable.
Terrorists: No
Freedom Fighters: Yes

Nono, the palestinians are freedom fighters because they are actually oppressed.

There are no walled ghettos in ireland, the RAF doesnt bomb the irish cities.

As has been pointed out such was the case.

Besides, the french culture is perhaps the worlds finest.
Actually the Normands were Scandinavian in origin. They just happened to settle for a bit in northern france. The Gauls had nothing to do with the conquest of the Anglo-Saxons

Actually the Normands were Scandinavian in origin. They just happened to settle for a bit in northern france. The Gauls had nothing to do with the conquest of the Anglo-Saxons


That hasnt really got any bearing on the endless merits of today's french culture and people.

That hasnt really got any bearing on the endless merits of today's french culture and people.
The only thing they've got going for them that I know of is that VU was smart enough to buy out Sierra, which was contracted to publish the half-life series.

The americans are themselves of base character and as such have no natural right to their land, whereas the canadians are an enlightened society and by that viture do, time abiding nonwithstanding.

Ah ha! I see it all clearly now. Canada is in the background causing all the problems because they want to dominate the world. :fluffle:

they did invade and dominate England.

True, but not in the present time. T took True Granada's post to mean England has the right to dominate Ireland in the present day.

Terrorists: No
Freedom Fighters: Yes

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Especially when both use the same tactics. Oh, and it isn't just the IRA either. The UDL can be pretty nasty.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Especially when both use the same tactics. Oh, and it isn't just the IRA either. The UDL can be pretty nasty.
Do the IRA and UPL use people with Down's syndrome as suicide bombers?

The only thing they've got going for them that I know of is that VU was smart enough to buy out Sierra, which was contracted to publish the half-life series.


You ought I think spend some time in France and get to know firsthand their culture and the goodness of the french people.

Do the IRA and UPL use people with Down's syndrome as suicide bombers?

No, they are too cowardly to use suicide bombers, instead they just use normal bombs. It's alright though, since the innocents they kill are English and therefore inferiour, whereas those dirty arabs kill Israelis, who are superiour beings.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Especially when both use the same tactics. Oh, and it isn't just the IRA either. The UDL can be pretty nasty.
Thats true thats exactly the way i feel people call them (and others) Terrorist so i reply with thier Freedom fighters

Actually the Normands were Scandinavian in origin. They just happened to settle for a bit in northern france. The Gauls had nothing to do with the conquest of the Anglo-Saxons
But the Bretons did.

"However matters may go in France or with the French Government, or other French Governments, we in this island and in the British Empire will never lose our sense of comradeship with the French people."


Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, speech before the house of commons on 18 June 1940.

No, they are too cowardly to use suicide bombers, instead they just use normal bombs. It's alright though, since the innocents they kill are English and therefore inferiour, whereas those dirty arabs kill Israelis, who are superiour beings.
Ah, so bombing someplace is now worse than forcing an innocent with Down's syndrome to become a suicide bomb? Interesting. My point was is that there is stuff the IRA and UPL will not stoop to, complete bastards they may be, whereas the same cannot be said of the palestinians and the so-called insurgents in Iraq.

Nono, the palestinians are freedom fighters because they are actually oppressed.

There are no walled ghettos in ireland, the RAF doesnt bomb the irish cities.
No but they were and theirs still NI so its good enough for me.

No, they are too cowardly to use suicide bombers, instead they just use normal bombs. It's alright though, since the innocents they kill are English and therefore inferiour, whereas those dirty arabs kill Israelis, who are superiour beings.

Witness the vulgar racism of the irish partisan. With luck one day the English will bring this sort of ignorance to a heel and raise up these sort of irishmen to be good citizens of the world.

No but they were and theirs still NI so its good enough for me.
wow...you are so misinformed it isnt even funny

sorry but...i had to laugh
I wouldnt blame you but i can so i will.

I wouldnt blame you but i can so i will.
see my above post

wow...you are so misinformed it isnt even funny
Maybe youre the one thats been feed the lies???????????????????????

see my above post
Ive seen it see my below post

EDIT:which would be above this of course :p

Maybe youre the one thats been feed the lies???????????????????????
maybe im the one who lives here and can see it with my own eyes, instead of relying on second hand accounts and biased information

maybe im the one who lives here and can see it with my own eyes, instead of relying on second hand accounts and biased information


Witness the reasonable mind of the Northern Irishman, proudly and rightly part of the United Kingdom.

Do the IRA and UPL use people with Down's syndrome as suicide bombers?

I don't know. Is that the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter? I thought any group that indiscriminately killed innocent civilians would be classified as terrorists. Groups that are fighting for independence that target only legitimate military targets could be classified as freedom fighters.

Clearly, the IRA, UDL, Palestinian groups, Bathist separatists, etc have all targeted innocent civilians.

I unfortunately don't know much about the IRA or Irish freedom movement. When did Sinn Fein actually become a political party, and for how long were the Irish trying to get a political voice rather than get their say via bombs and gunfire?

Seems to me that we've lost all sense of history and context. It's not "terrorism" apparently that the U.K. holds the Irish under their boot. Or for that matter what the U.S. has done the Middle East. Or the colonialism that preceded that by the French and British. It's only "terrorism" when the oppressed fight back.

Not that I'm in favor of violence, but while I don't ascribe to using violence, I find it distasteful to expect the oppressed of the world to have the same committments.

I unfortunately don't know much about the IRA or Irish freedom movement. When did Sinn Fein actually become a political party, and for how long were the Irish trying to get a political voice rather than get their say via bombs and gunfire?

I really suggest you read "The Course of Irish History." They have been fighting for their freedom since the Norman invasion in the 12th Century. I don't remember exactly when the IRA evolved but think it was in the late 1800's or early 1900's.

Nadkor, can you help me out here a little?

Sinn Fein are a political party, but i think they need to prove it. This peace process HAS to work, we cant let it faulter again, not through inaction, not through petty squabbling. If we are to achieve a coalition government then the DUP, Sinn Fein, and British and Irish governments must talk at the table. This mistrust is deep seated and though justified, must be overcome. Otherwise those innocents who have died will have done so to no end.

The IRA, both provisional and real must end all paramilitary activity, and the same goes for the paramilitary activity supported by Paisley. If its pictures that are standing in the way of this, then pictures must be taken, and for affirmation, Catholic and Protestant clerical witnesses must be present of decomissioning. Its all easier said than done...but we have to start some where.

I firmly believe that NI should become part of the republic again, but hope the cost of this isnt in more blood.

I unfortunately don't know much about the IRA or Irish freedom movement. When did Sinn Fein actually become a political party, and for how long were the Irish trying to get a political voice rather than get their say via bombs and gunfire?

I found it. The IRA formed in the 1930's. Sinn Fein was founded in 1908.

I hope Gerry Adams doesnt become the Yasser Arafat of NI- so close to peace, but just failing to clinch it.

No but they were and theirs still NI so its good enough for me.

Do us the favour of naming a single instance of a walled ghetto in Northern Ireland, would you? I think you have fundamentally misunderstood what the 'peace walls' are. They are walls set up not to contain populations but rather to divide hostile communities from each other in our oh so quaintly named interface areas.

...Catholic and Protestant clerical witnesses must be present of decomissioning. Its all easier said than done...but we have to start some where.

I firmly believe that NI should become part of the republic again, but hope the cost of this isn’t in more blood.

Is it true the IRA is being asked to decommission but the Pros titan groups are not being asked to decommission? If it is true, why should the IRA be the only ones to decommission?

As a second generation Irish-American, I agree that Ireland should be united. I also agree that this must be done in a peaceful manner.

I found it. The IRA formed in the 1930's. Sinn Fein was founded in 1908.

Yeah, but the (original) IRA grew out of the IRB - the Irish Republican Brotherhood - who had been in existence since the 1850s or thereabouts.

I really suggest you read "The Course of Irish History." They have been fighting for their freedom since the Norman invasion in the 12th Century. I don't remember exactly when the IRA evolved but think it was in the late 1800's or early 1900's.

Nadkor, can you help me out here a little?
The IRB (Irish Republican Brotherhood) were formed in the mid to late 1800s i think, but almost died out by the early 20th

The Irish Volunteer Force was created in response to the creation of the UVF in 1912, and split at the start of WW1 into a large group called the National Volunteers who supported the British effort - thinking that Britain would reward them with independence for their support once WW1 was ended - and a smaller group called the Irish Volunteers who didnt support Britain.

Sinn Fein were founded in (i think) 1912 by Arthur Griffith...one of the original ideas of Sinn Fein was an independent Ireland in the Commonwealth with the British Monarch as Head of State...but that all changed with the IRB orchestrated rising at Easter 1916 (when the leader of the Irish Volunteer Force, who IIRC was called Owen MacNeil, heard about the rising he tried to stop it, but the leadership had been so infiltrated by the IRB that it went ahead anyway)

the Home Rule Bill was passed in 1914 and would have allowed the whole of Ireland to come under one parliament but within the UK, but the war intervened and the Act was suspende until the end of the war, but the Easter Rising finished it off

The IRA emerged out of the IRB/Irish Volunteers after 1916 and fought the War of Independence with the Brits, which was ended with the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921 which set up an independent Irish Free State

Sinn Fein by this point was led by two survivors of the Easter Rising - Eamon de Valera and Michael Collins, and Collins was pretty much in charge of the IRB/IRA

in 1920, however, Westminster passed the Government of Ireland Act which divided Ireland into two UK regions with Home Rule - Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland

The Southern parliament never met, and was superceeded by the Dail Eireann, which set up by Sinn Fein/IRA in 1919.

The Dail ratified the Anglo - Irish Treaty, but a substantial minority of members led by de Valera, didnt agree with the partition and the fact Ireland wasnt a republic (anti-treatyites) and went to war with those who supported it, led by Michael Collins (pro-treatyites)...the pro side won despite the killing of Collins

thats a very brief, and jumbled up, history of the formation of an independent Ireland

There is a bit of confused, distorted, and incomplete Irish history here. May I suggest a book called "The Course of Irish History" by Moody and Martin. About 400 pages and takes you from the prehistoric times to the present.
Since I'm not able to read that book within a timely manner and reply in this thread, please tell me what the book's arguments are. What relevance does prehistoric Irish history have on modern day politics? The people who live in Northern Ireland are British, not Irish.

Is it true the IRA is being asked to decommission but the Pros titan groups are not being asked to decommission? If it is true, why should the IRA be the only ones to decommission?

As a second generation Irish-American, I agree that Ireland should be united. I also agree that this must be done in a peaceful manner.
do you not think that this should only happen when the majority of the people in the north want it to?

in other words, should the north not be free to decide what it wants to do with itself?

Actually the Normands were Scandinavian in origin. They just happened to settle for a bit in northern france. The Gauls had nothing to do with the conquest of the Anglo-Saxons
Although their ancestors were Vikings, the 11th century Normans had French culture and spoke French. For centuries, the official language of Norman England was French, not Scandinavian.

Is it true the IRA is being asked to decommission but the Pros titan groups are not being asked to decommission?

No. All the paramilitary groups are meant to decomission. As a side note: characterising the paramilitary groups as Protestant or Catholic is ignoring the fact that some Catholics belong to the traditionally 'Protestant' groups and vice versa, and this has gone on throughout the history of the troubles.

Do us the favour of naming a single instance of a walled ghetto in Northern Ireland, would you? I think you have fundamentally misunderstood what the 'peace walls' are. They are walls set up not to contain populations but rather to divide hostile communities from each other in our oh so quaintly named interface areas.

And the Catholics live on one side of the wall in the Catholic ghetto while the Protestants live on the other side in the Protestant ghetto. I'm not saying the wall doesn't serve a useful purpose and maybe prevent some violence, but to say it isn't a walled ghetto is very misleading. :headbang:

the whole issue of NI no longer has anything to do with religion or terrorism, its now just gangs making money from seeling weapons and drug, who claim to be part of the ira so they think they are doing their crimes for some sort of cause other than making money..... we should just continue to ignore it.....

Is it true the IRA is being asked to decommission but the Pros titan groups are not being asked to decommission? If it is true, why should the IRA be the only ones to decommission?

As a second generation Irish-American, I agree that Ireland should be united. I also agree that this must be done in a peaceful manner.
The problem with Americans is that we are always presuming what is best for other people thousands of miles away. The status of Northern Ireland should be determined by the people who actually live there, not some random Irish Americans half a world away. To the best of my knowledge most people in Ulster do not want unification with Ireland.

And the Catholics live on one side of the wall in the Catholic ghetto while the Protestants live on the other side in the Protestant ghetto. I'm not saying the wall doesn't serve a useful purpose and maybe prevent some violence, but to say it isn't a walled ghetto is very misleading. :headbang:

Does something count as a walled ghetto if it only has a wall on one side?

maybe im the one who lives here and can see it with my own eyes, instead of relying on second hand accounts and biased information
i can see your location and it only gives me more understanding of your opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To the best of my knowledge most people in Ulster do not want unification with Ireland.

Just a note: as I'm sure you're aware, Ulster is not the same as Northern Ireland - NI contains 6 counties, whereas Ulster contains 9.

Is it true the IRA is being asked to decommission but the Pros titan groups are not being asked to decommission? If it is true, why should the IRA be the only ones to decommission?


I dont know why protestant groups arent being asked to decomission, but probably that question isnt being asked because so much of the attention is being held on the IRA. Such pressure to decomission publicly is probably being mounted also due to their alleged involvement in the 26Million or so euro bank heist. Its just so infuriating when you see the IRA officially remove all their moves forward from the table as a result to the poor responce from the British and Irish governments, (just 2 days ago)

Witness the reasonable mind of the Northern Irishman, proudly and rightly part of the United Kingdom.
Ill take this the way i want too as sarcasm.HE HE

Just a note: as I'm sure you're aware, Ulster is not the same as Northern Ireland - NI contains 6 counties, whereas Ulster contains 9.
Thanks for the correction.

If Ulster is so united in its desire to remain part of Britain then why is Sinn fein the third largest party?

I dont know why protestant groups arent being asked to decomission

The loyalist paramlitary groups are also being asked to decomission.

but probably that question isnt being asked because so much of the attention is being held on the IRA. Such pressure to decomission publicly is probably being mounted also due to their alleged involvement in the 26Million or so euro bank heist.

Sterling, not Euros.

Since I'm not able to read that book within a timely manner and reply in this thread, please tell me what the book's arguments are. What relevance does prehistoric Irish history have on modern day politics? The people who live in Northern Ireland are British, not Irish.

The book is an Irish History book. It starts with the pre-history of Ireland and ends with the present day. Having an understanding of the history of Ireland and knowing what has transpired in the past gives a lot of insight into the current situation. It explains the reasons for the hatred between the Catholics and Protestants and the Irish and the English.

The people living in NI are technically British citizens, however many of them consider themselves Irish and want to see the country unified with Dublin. Most of those are Catholic. Those that want to remain British are mostly Protestant. The history book tells how all that came about.

I really suggest you read "The Course of Irish History." They have been fighting for their freedom since the Norman invasion in the 12th Century. I don't remember exactly when the IRA evolved but think it was in the late 1800's or early 1900's.

Nadkor, can you help me out here a little?
Really they fought the Vikings as well Dublin was founded by them.
But i couldnt say full oppresion.

The loyalist paramlitary groups are also being asked to decomission.



Sterling, not Euros.

Ok thanks for the correction.

do you not think that this should only happen when the majority of the people in the north want it to?

in other words, should the north not be free to decide what it wants to do with itself?

Yes. There should be a referendum.

Just an open question here. Does anyone believe that if hypothetically all the party leaders were to be removed from the equation, and a new generation implaced, that this peace process could work sooner? Some of the bitterness might be gone.

If Ulster is so united in its desire to remain part of Britain then why is Sinn fein the third largest party?

I don't think anyone has claimed that the six counties are untied in their desire to remain part of the UK: instead that the majority wish it. Witness how both the DUP and the UUP which support remaining part of the union hold more seats than SF in the assembly.

Yes. There should be a referendum.
I second that.

[QUOTE=Witness how both the DUP and the UUP which support remaining part of the union hold more seats than SF in the assembly.[/QUOTE]

Ok, but a majoritive vote wont stop bombs going off. Such politics cannot stop a minority insurgence.

The people living in NI are technically British citizens, however many of them consider themselves Irish and want to see the country unified with Dublin. Most of those are Catholic. Those that want to remain British are mostly Protestant. The history book tells how all that came about.

However, Irish citizenship is also open to just about everybody in Northern Ireland, and many of us do in fact hold it in preference to British citizenship.

Yes, i hold irish citizenship, as opposed to British.

Ok, but a majoritive vote wont stop bombs going off. Such politics cannot stop a minority insurgence.

Indeed, which I why I see the most likely way for an end to come to the physical conflict is one which will come from the grassroots, rather than from the politicos.

Do us the favour of naming a single instance of a walled ghetto in Northern Ireland, would you? I think you have fundamentally misunderstood what the 'peace walls' are. They are walls set up not to contain populations but rather to divide hostile communities from each other in our oh so quaintly named interface areas.
Ghettos??????
But the Palestinian Walls are said to be there to keep the peace.Whether they will is another story.As a result of their walls places have become Ghettos because of Israel's obvious unwillingness to make fair boundries.

As the Irish may be seen to try and Enhance/preserve/save harmony it has become different
Just as the Irish ones are there its just fortunate for everyone that the RAF isnt Bombing places.

Just an open question here. Does anyone believe that if hypothetically all the party leaders were to be removed from the equation, and a new generation implaced, that this peace process could work sooner? Some of the bitterness might be gone.

Not really, given that some of the younger politicians on both sides are almost as rabid in their beliefs as the older generation. That is the irony of NI politics: it invites participation from extremists and sidelines moderates, unlike the situation in most countries.

Indeed, which I why I see the most likely way for an end to come to the physical conflict is one which will come from the grassroots, rather than from the politicos.

What do you mean by that. Apologies for being a bit slow if it is obvious.

That is the irony of NI politics: it invites participation from extremists and sidelines moderates, unlike the situation in most countries.

How true. Its the history that drives it, but its the histroy that must stop this inexorable affair. What can you do...

The IRB (Irish Republican Brotherhood) were formed in the mid to late 1800s i think, but almost died out by the early 20th

The Irish Volunteer Force was created in response to the creation of the UVF in 1912, and split at the start of WW1 into a large group called the National Volunteers who supported the British effort - thinking that Britain would reward them with independence for their support once WW1 was ended - and a smaller group called the Irish Volunteers who didnt support Britain.

Sinn Fein were founded in (i think) 1912 by Arthur Griffith...one of the original ideas of Sinn Fein was an independent Ireland in the Commonwealth with the British Monarch as Head of State...but that all changed with the IRB orchestrated rising at Easter 1916 (when the leader of the Irish Volunteer Force, who IIRC was called Owen MacNeil, heard about the rising he tried to stop it, but the leadership had been so infiltrated by the IRB that it went ahead anyway)

the Home Rule Bill was passed in 1914 and would have allowed the whole of Ireland to come under one parliament but within the UK, but the war intervened and the Act was suspende until the end of the war, but the Easter Rising finished it off

The IRA emerged out of the IRB/Irish Volunteers after 1916 and fought the War of Independence with the Brits, which was ended with the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921 which set up an independent Irish Free State

Sinn Fein by this point was led by two survivors of the Easter Rising - Eamon de Valera and Michael Collins, and Collins was pretty much in charge of the IRB/IRA

in 1920, however, Westminster passed the Government of Ireland Act which divided Ireland into two UK regions with Home Rule - Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland

The Southern parliament never met, and was superceeded by the Dail Eireann, which set up by Sinn Fein/IRA in 1919.

The Dail ratified the Anglo - Irish Treaty, but a substantial minority of members led by de Valera, didnt agree with the partition and the fact Ireland wasnt a republic (anti-treatyites) and went to war with those who supported it, led by Michael Collins (pro-treatyites)...the pro side won despite the killing of Collins

thats a very brief, and jumbled up, history of the formation of an independent Ireland
My Hat goes off to you

The book is an Irish History book. It starts with the pre-history of Ireland and ends with the present day. Having an understanding of the history of Ireland and knowing what has transpired in the past gives a lot of insight into the current situation. It explains the reasons for the hatred between the Catholics and Protestants and the Irish and the English.

I know a bit about Irish history, and I don't think centuries old events and the opinions of dead people are more important than the opinions of living people in Northern Ireland who for the most part support unionism.

Ghettos??????

Huh?

But the Palestinian Walls are said to be there to keep the peace.Whether they will is another story.As a result of their walls places have become Ghettos because of Israel's obvious unwillingness to make fair boundries.

The major difference between the 'peace walls' in NI and those in Israel are that the ones in NI are to stop trouble being started by people on both sides of them, whereas in Israel they are there to prevent attacks originating on only one side. (This is, obviously not to say that the Israeli state is not carrying out attacks on the Palestinians, but as they operate the walls they are free to ignore them).


In NI the peace walls do not contain communities: instead they act so as to increase the physical distance which must be travelled to get from one to the other. Trouble is less likely to start if drunken idiots have to walk three quarters of a mile to lob a stone or a pipe bomb instead of just a hundred yards.

As the Irish may be seen to try and Enhance/preserve/save harmony it has become different

I don't understand this sentence.

Just as the Irish ones are there its just fortunate for everyone that the RAF isnt Bombing places.

I understand this sentence but fail to see what you are driving at. Are you talking about the Red Army Faction or the Royal Air Force?

Just an open question here. Does anyone believe that if hypothetically all the party leaders were to be removed from the equation, and a new generation implaced, that this peace process could work sooner? Some of the bitterness might be gone.

A group is doing that now with the children. They have a web site http://www.shopirish.com/ All the proceeds are used to bring Protestant and Catholic children to camp in America for a couple of weeks. You can find full details about the program on their site. They also have some pretty good stuff. They wife and I did most of our Christmas shopping there last year.

What do you mean by that. Apologies for being a bit slow if it is obvious.

A move away from the old politics of NI which have their foundations in judging others on the basis of their perceived religious/cultural identity: instead a recognition that both communities have valid claims to control over the destiny of the province. A recognition that the recent 35+ years of open conflict has brought benefit only to those that seek to line their nests by participating in gangsterism under the name of political paramilitary activity. The longer the peacefires go on the less of a motivation there is for young people to join in with the paramilitary groups and so the more the forces which could drive NI back to the brink are diluted by more moderate voices.

Basically I'm talking about a creation of a grass roots political viewpoint which judges not on the basis of perceived nationality or religious background, but instead a realisation that all have suffered.

One of those things which it is hard to explain, but the longer the ceasefoires remain in place, the less part fear should play in driving people towards extremist positions.

thanks. thats clear now. And i find my self in agreement.

Just an open question here. Does anyone believe that if hypothetically...and a new generation implaced, that this peace process could work sooner? Some of the bitterness might be gone.

A group is doing that now with the children. They have a web site http://www.shopirish.com/ All the proceeds are used to bring Protestant and Catholic children to camp in America for a couple of weeks. You can find full details about the program on their site. They also have some pretty good stuff. They wife and I did most of our Christmas shopping there last year.

A group is doing that now with the children. They have a web site http://www.shopirish.com/ All the proceeds are used to bring Protestant and Catholic children to camp in America for a couple of weeks. You can find full details about the program on their site. They also have some pretty good stuff. They wife and I did most of our Christmas shopping there last year.
Good to know. Well i hope that kind of thing works in closing the rift etc. Its been good talking. I'll leave it there this evening.

Eire has the right to Unification and Liberation any means necassary to do this is acceptable.
Terrorists: No
Freedom Fighters: Yes

An attitude like that isn't going to help anyone mate.

Are you saying it was acceptable to kill those kids in Warrington? What on earth did they have to do with anything? In the past my mum's been in a building targeted by the IRA. Thankfully it was a very large building and she was at the other end of it. Would she have been an acceptable casualty just because she fancied a day trip to London?

I see you live in New Zealand. I trust you won't be complaining when the Maoris rise up and bomb you into the sea then!

Returning to NI. Most of the violence seems to have been tit-for-tat for a long time now with appeals to unity being more of a handy recruitment tool for disatisfied youth than any meaningful ideology.

Also. NI as a whole shows that the concept of never negotiating with terrorists is flawed. The situations obviously far from perfect, but at least it's getting better year by year and both sides are spending so much effort jockeying for power amongst themselves that they've left us on the mainland alone for ages now.

But returning to Harlesburg's point. Any means necessary is just bollocks. It's amazing how nice it is to be able to go into Manchester city centre on a bank holiday without a 50/50 chance of being removed from certain areas due to bomb alerts, which was the case when I was a kid.

OK at the risk of confusing things further you said

Do us the favour of naming a single instance of a walled ghetto in Northern Ireland, would you? I think you have fundamentally misunderstood what the 'peace walls' are. They are walls set up not to contain populations but rather to divide hostile communities from each other in our oh so quaintly named interface areas.
My reply was

Ghettos??????
But the Palestinian Walls are said to be there to keep the peace.Whether they will is another story.As a result of their walls places have become Ghettos because of Israel's obvious unwillingness to make fair boundries.

As the Irish may be seen to try and Enhance/preserve/save harmony it has become different
Just as the Irish ones are there its just fortunate for everyone that the RAF isnt Bombing places.

Ghettos??????

Huh?
You asked about Ghettos and so i was like Ghettos? Ithink were just confusing each other. :p

But the Palestinian Walls are said to be there to keep the peace.Whether they will is another story.As a result of their walls places have become Ghettos because of Israel's obvious unwillingness to make fair boundries.
The major difference between the 'peace walls' in NI and those in Israel are that the ones in NI are to stop trouble being started by people on both sides of them, whereas in Israel they are there to prevent attacks originating on only one side. (This is, obviously not to say that the Israeli state is not carrying out attacks on the Palestinians, but as they operate the walls they are free to ignore them).

In NI the peace walls do not contain communities: instead they act so as to increase the physical distance which must be travelled to get from one to the other. Trouble is less likely to start if drunken idiots have to walk three quarters of a mile to lob a stone or a pipe bomb instead of just a hundred yards.
Im not disagreeing in fact i agree with that

As the Irish may be seen to try and Enhance/preserve/save harmony it has become different
I don't understand this sentence.
Well the Irish are definatly trying for Harmony i couldnt say that with Israel

Just as the Irish ones are there its just fortunate for everyone that the RAF isnt Bombing places.
[QUOTE=Bodies Without Organs]
I understand this sentence but fail to see what you are driving at. Are you talking about the Red Army Faction or the Royal Air Force?
[QUOTE/]
Sorry this might be for another qoute or person maybe nothing to do with what we are discussing

Eire has the right to Unification and Liberation any means necassary to do this is acceptable.
Terrorists: No
Freedom Fighters: Yes

An attitude like that isn't going to help anyone mate.
Thats true but a lot of attitudes have hurt a lot of people.
Are you saying it was acceptable to kill those kids in Warrington? What on earth did they have to do with anything? In the past my mum's been in a building targeted by the IRA. Thankfully it was a very large building and she was at the other end of it. Would she have been an acceptable casualty just because she fancied a day trip to London?
Im not to fimiliar with it but im sure somre heinous crime has happened on the other side of the coin.Id feel sorry for you mothers loss but others have lost Mothers everywhere if you can get everyone into a great big World Hug ill support you.
I see you live in New Zealand. I trust you won't be complaining when the Maoris rise up and bomb you into the sea then!
So are you saying Maori dont know how to use a Computer?
How do you know im not Maori what if i was Tama Iti himself?
In all honesty they have as much right too.

Returning to NI. Most of the violence seems to have been tit-for-tat for a long time now with appeals to unity being more of a handy recruitment tool for disatisfied youth than any meaningful ideology.

Also. NI as a whole shows that the concept of never negotiating with terrorists is flawed. The situations obviously far from perfect, but at least it's getting better year by year and both sides are spending so much effort jockeying for power amongst themselves that they've left us on the mainland alone for ages now.
Exactly Tit -for-Tat i wont argue on that.
But returning to Harlesburg's point. Any means necessary is just bollocks. It's amazing how nice it is to be able to go into Manchester city centre on a bank holiday without a 50/50 chance of being removed from certain areas due to bomb alerts, which was the case when I was a kid.
Thats true but look at the other side of the coin man nobody wants to hurt but some feel its necesity.

Im wondering if this was the aim of the Threads starter though(In General)
Anyways im off to have breakfeast(more like Brunch but eh)

With the american focusing on terrorism perhaps the american domestic intelligence services should be sure to keep as keen an eye on the Irish as on the Arabs, as the Irish are known for their terrorism.

I call the nameless faceless redhead who's going to blow us up Patty O'Sama their is no need to watch Irelands terrorists, as they aren't a threat to america, they are only interested in freeing all of Ireland from British control

How do you know im not Maori what if i was Tama Iti himself?


To be fair, I just went with the odds on that one!

My point was mainly that a lot of crap has gone down on both sides. However that definitely doesn't mean that those of us who live in England deserve to get blown up because some people over a sea can't decide who should rule them. Most of us over here couldn't care less about who rules NI and we'd welcome having the problem taken out of our hands.

I'd be all for NI returning to EIRE but then we'd get half of the crazies moving here! I see both sides as being just as bad as each other, with admittedly a bit more of a bias against the IRA as they've actually blown up places that I go to.

That said. Manchester probably wouldn't be as nice as it is today if it wasn't for the IRA. The world works in mysterious ways!

You asked about Ghettos and so i was like Ghettos? Ithink were just confusing each other. :p

Right. I think I understand now: I thought you had claimed that walled ghettos still existed in NI due to this post:


Nono, the palestinians are freedom fighters because they are actually oppressed.

There are no walled ghettos in ireland, the RAF doesnt bomb the irish cities.


No but they were and theirs still NI so its good enough for me.

I see now that you didn't mean 'there still are (walled ghettos) in NI'.



I understand this sentence but fail to see what you are driving at. Are you talking about the Red Army Faction or the Royal Air Force?

Sorry this might be for another qoute or person maybe nothing to do with what we are discussing

Ah, this relates back to New Granada and his comparison to Israel, yes? Apologies for the misunderstanding.

To be fair, I just went with the odds on that one!

My point was mainly that a lot of crap has gone down on both sides. However that definitely doesn't mean that those of us who live in England deserve to get blown up because some people over a sea can't decide who should rule them. Most of us over here couldn't care less about who rules NI and we'd welcome having the problem taken out of our hands.

I'd be all for NI returning to EIRE but then we'd get half of the crazies moving here! I see both sides as being just as bad as each other, with admittedly a bit more of a bias against the IRA as they've actually blown up places that I go to.

That said. Manchester probably wouldn't be as nice as it is today if it wasn't for the IRA. The world works in mysterious ways!
Ah i guess i didnt go anywhere yet

Ah the crazys just send them back to Scotland and give them Scotland(i know its areal country now ;) )
Bit like the Great Fire of London you get to re plan the city?
Also the asian Tsunami is a pertect excuse to knock out child ponography and coruption in those areas

their is no need to watch Irelands terrorists, as they aren't a threat to america, they are only interested in freeing all of Ireland from British control

So, despite the USA's claim that it is interested in promoting democracy and peace around the world, they are in fact only looking out for number one?

Ah i guess i didnt go anywhere yet

Ah the crazys just send them back to Scotland and give them Scotland(i know its areal country now ;) )
Bit like the Great Fire of London you get to re plan the city?
Also the asian Tsunami is a pertect excuse to knock out child ponography and coruption in those areas


I like the Scotland idea. About half my family's originally Scottish so if that happened and Britain got into any more dumb wars, I could use a Scottish passport in the same way Americans pretend to be canadians when abroad!

So, despite the USA's claim that it is interested in promoting democracy and peace around the world, they are in fact only looking out for number one?
of course, we won't mess with anything that isn't threating us directly, now if Britain asked for support, we probably would decline, unless they threatened with something.

Ah the crazys just send them back to Scotland and give them Scotland(i know its areal country now ;) )

Ah... but the Scots originally came from Ireland, so they have as much right to be in Ireland as the rest of the Irish...

Jeez, again with the rights issue?

I am a born resident of NI. I therefore have a greater right to it than anyone of a different nationality. And I say we stay in the UK. When a majority of the other residents say 'We're off to Eire!" I may not like it, but it'll be the will of the people. And I'll just probably permanently move to Scotland ;)

I am a born resident of NI. I therefore have a greater right to it than anyone of a different nationality. And I say we stay in the UK. When a majority of the other residents say 'We're off to Eire!" I may not like it, but it'll be the will of the people. And I'll just probably permanently move to Scotland ;)


Personally I will say that my allegiance is not the Irish State or the United Kingdom, but rather Belfast itself.

Isn't Belfast a bit grim though. Or have I just been fed propaganda by my mate from Derry!

Isn't Belfast a bit grim though. Or have I just been fed propaganda by my mate from Derry!

The Athens Of The North grim? Nay, lad, nay. That is all just Maiden City propaganda.

If Ulster is so united in its desire to remain part of Britain then why is Sinn fein the third largest party?


Sinn fein is the third largest party because it is the minority.

i can see your location and it only gives me more understanding of your opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it gives you more understanding that mine might be more informed than yours?

good, because thats how it seems it is

My Hat goes off to you
thanks

ive probably left out one or two things, but the basic outline is there

Personally I will say that my allegiance is not the Irish State or the United Kingdom, but rather Belfast itself.
i actually agree with you there...more or less

I feel a much greater alliegiance to Northern Ireland in general than i do to either the UK or to the Republic...when people ask im always Northern Irish...which never fails to confuse people

The Athens Of The North grim? Nay, lad, nay. That is all just Maiden City propaganda.
tell him to go to the city hall, or queens....or the city centre in general...i do like Belfast when the suns shining, the trees are green, and youve nothing better to do than walk into a pub and have a drink, or dander round town with a few friends...or lie on the grass at the city hall having a laugh with mates


i do like Belfast...

With the american focusing on terrorism perhaps the american domestic intelligence services should be sure to keep as keen an eye on the Irish as on the Arabs, as the Irish are known for their terrorism.

I call the nameless faceless redhead who's going to blow us up Patty O'Sama
That's ridiculous. There's not that much oil in the North Sea.

I know a bit about Irish history, and I don't think centuries old events and the opinions of dead people are more important than the opinions of living people in Northern Ireland who for the most part support unionism.

I never said the past was more important than the present. I said the past explains why the present exists. By understanding the reasons for the present situation, perhaps we will be better able to come up with a solution of the problem

With the american focusing on terrorism perhaps the american domestic intelligence services should be sure to keep as keen an eye on the Irish as on the Arabs, as the Irish are known for their terrorism.

I call the nameless faceless redhead who's going to blow us up Patty O'Sama
This is bullshit. Terrorism is gradually disappearing from Ireland. The last significant terrorist act was the Omagh bomb in 1998 which killed 30 people.

Besides, the NI terrorists never were anti-American. They were always just divided between unionists and nationalists.

Besides, the NI terrorists never were anti-American. They were always just divided between unionists and nationalists.

Is there a difference between a Nationalist and a Republican? I understand the Nationalists want union with the Republic but do not resort to violence. The Republicans want union with the Republic but are willing to use any means necessary. Is this true or am I misinformed?

Is there a difference between a Nationalist and a Republican? I understand the Nationalists want union with the Republic but do not resort to violence. The Republicans want union with the Republic but are willing to use any means necessary. Is this true or am I misinformed?
OK, what ive always been taught is:

Nationalists and Republicans both want to join the Republic - nationalists use politics and peace, republicans use violence

Unionists and Loyalists both want to stay in the UK - unionists use politics and peace, loyalists use violence


even if Unionist is a stupid name, it could mean a union either way....

I'm a fourth generation Irish-American. However, I constantly keep an eye on events in the whole of Ireland. While it can be understood that some wish to become part of Britain, there are others who wish to not. Personally, I say, let people live where they wish, but don't encroach on the natural rights of others to live peacefully on their own land. Don't try to 'imperialize', 'unionize' or whatever.

These small things are why wars are fought...

Also, I'd like to point out that my grandmother still runs hundreds of acres in the republic, and I'm in line to get those lands in time, so my thoughts here are a little more validated by that.

Just my two cents...

tell him to go to the city hall, or queens....or the city centre in general...i do like Belfast when the suns shining, the trees are green, and youve nothing better to do than walk into a pub and have a drink, or dander round town with a few friends...or lie on the grass at the city hall having a laugh with mates


i do like Belfast...

Hear hear. :)