NationStates Jolt Archive


Frivolous Asbestos suits?

Zeppistan
05-02-2005, 00:51
Sometimes stories come out on the same day that make you pause and wonder... for example there are always one or two unexpected initiatives in the State of the Union Address that make you wonder how they percolated to the top of the heap.

Case in point, from the state of the Union Address, Feb 3, 2005:

To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. [...] Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back, by irresponsible class actions and frivolous asbestos claims - and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year.

Asbestos?

When the hell did frivolous asbestos claims become a nationwide problem that was stalling the economy? I mean, in the grand scheme of his complaints about frivolous malpractice suit which have far more merit - how did asbestos suddenly become a hot issue?

Oh... I see (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/10811141.htm)


More than 100 families win $30 million settlement in asbestos case
Associated Press
Feb. 3rd, 2005

SEATTLE - More than 100 Northwest families have won a $30 million settlement in an asbestos lawsuit involving a subsidiary of Houston-based Halliburton Co.

The deal was part of a $4.3 billion global settlement encompassing Halliburton's past, present and future asbestos liabilities, Matthew Bergman, a lawyer who represented the families, said Thursday. [...]

Dresser Industries, a subsidiary of Halliburton acquired when Vice President Dick Cheney was chairman of the company, distributed asbestos products to shipyards, power plants and industrial facilities.

Plaintiffs alleged Dresser officials knew their products were harmful to workers in the 1930s but continued to distribute them through the mid-1970s.



Oh.

Well, I'm sure that had nothing to do with it.....
Gnostikos
05-02-2005, 00:52
I was thinking the same thing. And it pissed me off very badly.
Drunk commies
05-02-2005, 00:53
So these families got less than 300,000 each as compensation for one member getting incurable lung cancer that slowly suffocates them to death? How unfair to Haliburton. Shame on the dead and dying.
The Black Forrest
05-02-2005, 00:55
Zepp!

For forget yourself. If it hurts business, then it's a bad thing.

One of my friends father died from asbestos.

Nahh I won't get into it.....
Layarteb
05-02-2005, 00:56
1930s? I doubt they knew how bad asbestos would be. After all its bad long term, no real way to test for that except wait 20 years.
Cyrian space
05-02-2005, 00:56
Damn those asbestos suits are stylish...
The Black Forrest
05-02-2005, 00:59
1930s? I doubt they knew how bad asbestos would be. After all its bad long term, no real way to test for that except wait 20 years.

True, but they might be making the claim by notes or comments on record from those days.

Then again it could be lawyer tactics......
Zeppistan
05-02-2005, 01:00
1930s? I doubt they knew how bad asbestos would be. After all its bad long term, no real way to test for that except wait 20 years.

The lawsuits don't pend from the 30's. They are simply stating that the company became aware of the risk in the 30s but continued to sell their product until the 70s.


Clearly they must have met the burden of proof on the issue given the judgement.
Vegas-Rex
05-02-2005, 01:00
My school had asbestos issues. They put A's on all the windows of rooms with asbestos. It looked like anarchist graffiti.
Layarteb
05-02-2005, 01:01
See I can see asbetos law suits. But the cigarette ones are even worse. "We're suing because you guys sell a product that killed my xxx."

Let's get some things straight:

1. Nobody forced you to smoke.
2. You are an IDIOT for buying a product & using it that WILL give you cancer.
3. There is no excuse!

Cigarette company lawsuits need to be stopped.

No I don't smoke but my dad did die from lung cancer (smoker, asbestos, firefighter, chemicals, etc.)
United Freedoms
05-02-2005, 01:04
1. Nobody forced you to smoke.
2. You are an IDIOT for buying a product & using it that WILL give you cancer.
3. There is no excuse!


What about people who started smoking years ago back when Doctors would come on TV and tell you how good smoking is for you? What if forty years from now you found out that some seemingly harmless, if not beneficial thing you do today causes incurable disease?

I am against the various anti-smoking lawsuits as well, but that's something of an ignorant position to adopt.
The Black Forrest
05-02-2005, 01:05
See I can see asbetos law suits. But the cigarette ones are even worse. "We're suing because you guys sell a product that killed my xxx."

Let's get some things straight:

1. Nobody forced you to smoke.
2. You are an IDIOT for buying a product & using it that WILL give you cancer.
3. There is no excuse!

Cigarette company lawsuits need to be stopped.

No I don't smoke but my dad did die from lung cancer (smoker, asbestos, firefighter, chemicals, etc.)

Well, the people that were smoking before the 60's do have a right to sue the crap out of the companies. Ever see ads from the 50s?

Smoking increases intelligence, etc.

Now after the 60s. The Surgon General wanted originally wanted to say smoking will bascially kill you but was "impressed" to change it to it might give you cancer.

Then consider the lobbies and the amount of money the industry throws into goverments.....
Gadolinia
05-02-2005, 01:07
i think it is because several companies have already settled class action lawsuits (like Dow) which by definition protects them from future lawsuits, but the starving lawyers are looking for another check and keep going after them.

a side note: asbestos is totally harmless when used as intended as insulation. it is the dust particles that are dangerous to the lungs (but then again, concrete dust is just as dangerous). the asinine thing are the schools that are tearing up the walls to take this stuff out, spreading dust all over exposing people that wouldn't have otherwise been exposed. it is similar to tearing up all the sidewalks because concrete dust is bad for the lungs. there are also several types of asbestos, of which the most benign is used comercially but toxicity studies were carried out on the most toxic one.

yeah, i thought the statement in the address was really out of left field and made me laugh. it didn't seem to belong considering the seriousness of everything else in the speech.
Skaje
05-02-2005, 01:11
Among the gravest threats facing the nation are...

Asbestos lawsuits and gay marriage.

LOL.
Reaper_2k3
05-02-2005, 01:14
There are those times you want to throttle Bush, then there are those times you need to sleep for staying up for days wanting to throttle BUsh
New Anthrus
05-02-2005, 01:16
I'm sure he means the class action type, where all the money goes to trial lawyers anyhow. Also, don't forget that Halliburton is no longer managed by Dick Cheyney :).
In any case, I thought that Halliburton was just an oil services company, like rig construction and such. I didn't think they were interested in constructing regular buildings.
Sblargh
05-02-2005, 01:18
Among the gravest threats facing the nation are...

Asbestos lawsuits and gay marriage.

LOL.

30 years from now, gay people will be sueing their mates ´cause they didn´t know how harmful marriage is.
Layarteb
05-02-2005, 01:20
Honestly I don't think the cigarette companies should have to pay for the ignorance and idiocy of people to believe just about anything.

I still doubt though that the companies knew how bad asbestos was in the 1930s.

Burden of proof is easy.

Person A claims Person B did something.
Person B has to prove that it is false.

It could be the most crazy thing but once you throw burden of proof, you're six feet in the hole trying to climb out and the dirt is being pushed back in.
The Black Forrest
05-02-2005, 01:31
Honestly I don't think the cigarette companies should have to pay for the ignorance and idiocy of people to believe just about anything.


Well you see you are comparing modern times with the past. People are tad more untrusting and cynical now.

Fact remains, if you only have access to data and comments that say it's ok, then are they stupid?

They only recently gave out the ingrediants for their filters.

Do you think people would have continued smoking if they saw Arsonic(I blanked on the poison, but I think it was that) in the ingrediants.

Do you know what the ingrediants of everything you eat or drink?

Do you research what the long term affects of drugs will do for you?

If the smoking people put on their package and always said our product will eventually kill you, then you are right.

Fact remains, they did everything they could to prevent such comments. Heck they even lied in front on congress.
Layarteb
05-02-2005, 01:33
I don't see how common sense can dictate that smoking is at all good for you regardless of the information especially when it makes you cough and puke. That's generally a sign...
Zeppistan
05-02-2005, 01:37
Among the gravest threats facing the nation are...

Asbestos lawsuits and gay marriage.

LOL.

You know, if he just combined the two he'd solve both his problems.... :p
The Black Forrest
05-02-2005, 21:00
I don't see how common sense can dictate that smoking is at all good for you regardless of the information especially when it makes you cough and puke. That's generally a sign...

If it was only that simple. The tar counts make you put up with it until you get used to it. It only takes a pack at most.

Finally, man has been smoking for at least 2000 years.

Tabacco is bad but the filters made by the tabacco companies are worst. Never mind the tar count increase to induce addiction.....
Peopleandstuff
05-02-2005, 21:10
They knew that asbestos was dangerous and carried on using it for decades. My whole life my father was dying already and we didnt know. When he was 6 years old he used to love more than anything to ride his bicycle up and down the driveway, on windy days he found the dust motes particularly entertaining, how was he to know the horrible death they were going to bring on him. Jan 3 2005, 53 years old, left behind 2 adult daughers, a 14 year old son, his toddler aged grandson, his soul mate, the business he worked his whole life for, the 22 acre property he had acquired only a few years previously, everything that he'd worked for all his life, without ever knowing that the greed of some company was already killing him.

No amount of money can fix that.
The Black Forrest
05-02-2005, 21:17
No amount of money can fix that.

I am sorry you had to go through that. I only know how you feel from the side lines(ie my friend).

You are right money will not fix it.

But it's not supposed to fix it. Companies that value money over people to the point of hurthing them, need to be punished and big finacial lawsuits are all they understand.

Once they have one or record and they don't clean up their act, the next lawsuit only grows exponentially.....
Reaper_2k3
05-02-2005, 21:30
You know, if he just combined the two he'd solve both his problems.... :p
frivoulous gay asbestos marriages
Peopleandstuff
05-02-2005, 21:33
I am sorry you had to go through that. I only know how you feel from the side lines(ie my friend).

You are right money will not fix it.

But it's not supposed to fix it. Companies that value money over people to the point of hurthing them, need to be punished and big finacial lawsuits are all they understand.

Once they have one or record and they don't clean up their act, the next lawsuit only grows exponentially.....
Yes, and that is why I get slightly miffed when people call lawsuites against such companies frivilous. If it wasnt for endangering and killing people like my father, they wouldnt have any money anyway. My father's life is worth my money than there is in the world, if the bastards that killed him to get their share end up penniless, it's not justice, but it's better than nothing. A murderer doesnt get to keep the proceeds of his crimes, why should scum who sold a product they knew was dangerous, for use in residential homes, schools etc not only avoid prison, but also keep the cash?