NationStates Jolt Archive

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=7&u=/ap/20050204/ap_on_re_us/family_torture


Someone please explain how this kind of thing happens. I want to fly to Florida right now and beat the shit out of these people and when I'm finished.....do it again. And again.

What measures can be taken to reduce the kinds of incidents that are happening with child abuse like this?? A few months back, here in my home town, an 11 year old girl was hospitalized for 2 months because her moms boyfriend had beaten her so severly, put her in a clothes dryer and turned it on, raped her brutally, which resulted in the tearing of her genitalia......and the bastard sewed her wounds up with fishing line! Some of the details were so horrific that the paper wouldnt even mention them. What in hells name in going on???

Yow, those parents should be castrated with chainsaws!

Wow... that's really rather extremely bad. But I'm not really sure what can be done about it apart from bringing those who commit it to justice. It's not as if it's possible, and it certainly isn't desireable, to stick a camera in everyones home, 1984 style.

It's sickening, but there's so little we can do to prevent it, or at least, I can't think of anything that wouldn't completely destroy peoples rights to privacy. The most we can do is catch those who would do that.

I've seen too many men who beat their wives.
Met too many men who sexually abuse their children and watch their wives crumble into a hopeless mental state as a result.

Wanted to kill a lot of these people. I didn't see these people on the news - I've seen them in my own community over time.

The law is slow to move, and errs on the side of protecting privacy.

Look around your own community - it's there under the surface.

That's just incredibly sick. People do truly gruesome things, there have always been people who do them, and my guess is there always will. Unless, of course, we end up living in a "Minority Report" world...

but I'm not sure it would be worth it.

The thing is, life is full of both terrifying horrors and wonderful beauties, and the best we can do is fight for better funding for child monitoring, keep an eye out for those around us, and just keep pushing for more love and support.

Yow, those parents should be castrated with chainsaws!
I quite agree. People who torture other innocent people in this manner deserve something equally heinous meted out to them. Not rehabilitation. Before someone says it, I don't care if it's 'reducing myself' to their level: if they hadn't been such an evil moron in the first place, they would have no need to have any punishment.

Sick, evil fuckers.

Horrible ... thats all I can say


(that and :fluffle: peechland)

I was doing some volunteer work involving Georgia's current sentencing practices and penalties for certian types of offenses and spent about a year and a half researching the legal system and its ideas of "justice". I was shocked to find that some offenders who were convicted of child molestation, child abuse, and rape, had received minimal sentencing or served only a fraction of their intended sentce. Some I found spent 6 months, 12 months, 18 months. I even found some that had resulted in the death of the assaulted child had served only 7 years of a 40 year sentence and 10 of a life sentence. The laws have now been changed in my state -if certain capital offenses are commited, you must serve 90% of your sentence. Still, even punishing these monsters doesnt help save a child from harms way. I cant fathom the reasons people do this. What need does it fulfill when someone hurts a child?

I think people should get more involved in child advocacy and protection. I think the government should open safe havens for children to go to, toll free numbers that they can call and someone come pick them up, spot check foster homes more than once every 3-6 months.Those things already exist but on a very minimal scale. I dont know. I think maybe I should start some kind of world wide crusade and raise money to open shelters and housing for children who are victims of abuse. It just seems people arent involved enough in this area.

I was doing some volunteer work involving Georgia's current sentencing practices and penalties for certian types of offenses and spent about a year and a half researching the legal system and its ideas of "justice". I was shocked to find that some offenders who were convicted of child molestation, child abuse, and rape, had received minimal sentencing or served only a fraction of their intended sentce. Some I found spent 6 months, 12 months, 18 months. I even found some that had resulted in the death of the assaulted child had served only 7 years of a 40 year sentence and 10 of a life sentence. The laws have now been changed in my state -if certain capital offenses are commited, you must serve 90% of your sentence. Still, even punishing these monsters doesnt help save a child from harms way. I cant fathom the reasons people do this. What need does it fulfill when someone hurts a child?

I think people should get more involved in child advocacy and protection. I think the government should open safe havens for children to go to, toll free numbers that they can call and someone come pick them up, spot check foster homes more than once every 3-6 months.Those things already exist but in a very on a very minimal scale. I dont know. I think maybe I should start some kind of world wide crusade and raise money to open shelters and housing for children who are victims of abuse. It just seems people arent involved enough in this area.

I know this makes me upset too

My ex gf’s dad was put away for only 18 months. His crime … systematically molesting her from ages 7-13 and her sister from 11-12

You know what makes this story really sick … she has 100% rheumatoid arthritis she had double hip replacement at 8 and was in a wheelchair from ages 8-12
So for 4 of the years he molested a child that couldn’t even walk by herself

And he got 18 months served (work release at the time too)

I was doing some volunteer work involving Georgia's current sentencing practices and penalties for certian types of offenses and spent about a year and a half researching the legal system and its ideas of "justice". I was shocked to find that some offenders who were convicted of child molestation, child abuse, and rape, had received minimal sentencing or served only a fraction of their intended sentce. Some I found spent 6 months, 12 months, 18 months. I even found some that had resulted in the death of the assaulted child had served only 7 years of a 40 year sentence and 10 of a life sentence. The laws have now been changed in my state -if certain capital offenses are commited, you must serve 90% of your sentence. Still, even punishing these monsters doesnt help save a child from harms way. I cant fathom the reasons people do this. What need does it fulfill when someone hurts a child?

I think people should get more involved in child advocacy and protection. I think the government should open safe havens for children to go to, toll free numbers that they can call and someone come pick them up, spot check foster homes more than once every 3-6 months.Those things already exist but on a very minimal scale. I dont know. I think maybe I should start some kind of world wide crusade and raise money to open shelters and housing for children who are victims of abuse. It just seems people arent involved enough in this area.


You're lucky if someone who commits incestual abuse even gets prosecuted.
You're lucky if a man who beats his wife actually gets convicted.

I've been involved in helping domestic violence victims over the past two years, and it's led me into seeing completely dysfunctional families who have other abuse problems.

I know this makes me upset too

My ex gf’s dad was put away for only 18 months. His crime … systematically molesting her from ages 7-13 and her sister from 11-12

You know what makes this story really sick … she has 100% rheumatoid arthritis she had double hip replacement at 8 and was in a wheelchair from ages 8-12
So for 4 of the years he molested a child that couldn’t even walk by herself

And he got 18 months served (work release at the time too)


See? How do they slap the label of "justice" on that??? I wish I would fall in a vat of some strange chemical and end up with super powers so I could have ESP and know when someones doing this and fly in and set them on fire just by glaring at them. That sounds silly but I cant imagine I'd get away with going around punishing people myself. I'd end up cell mates with these sick monsters. I say bring back public execution and torture for crimes like this. Make people see just what happens if they hurt a child. Sorry -but this is titled Peechlands rage.

You're lucky if someone who commits incestual abuse even gets prosecuted.
You're lucky if a man who beats his wife actually gets convicted.

I've been involved in helping domestic violence victims over the past two years, and it's led me into seeing completely dysfunctional families who have other abuse problems.


well if you have any info youd care to share on any advocate programs that are worth a hill of beans.....please telegram me if you dont mind.

I'm located in Northern Virginia. However, this group:
http://saveyourspirit.org/phpBB2/

is a support group for victims of domestic abuse and stalking.

They are very, very careful about who they accept as members. They can also point you in the right direction.

*sigh* Few things test the limits of my ghandi-like peace-nik hippie ideaology, but seeing stories like this ... well ... *sigh* It's just something you have to shake your head about.

Peechland, I know your rage, and feel it too.

I live in a county with a population of 400,000 and know several people in our local child protective services division of Social Services. I was floored when I found out that there are right around 200 people working in that division. Some of the caseworkers have over 50 kids on their caseloads.
Averaging it out that means that there are somewhere around 10,000 kids around me involved in a case of abuse or neglect of some level of severity.

They have to see them in person at a minimum of once a month, both at school and whereever they are living. And usually it works out to more than that between all the meetings. And yah, there are plenty of stories of CPS workers who haven't done their job (Florida seems to have a lot of problems in particular) but for the most part, child abuse and neglect is far more commonplace than we care to acknowledge.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that this is a much bigger problem than I think anyone in society is willing to admit. Makes me sick. And for every horror story like this one, there are probably 10 more that don't make the media, and 20 more that go unknown.

*sigh* Few things test the limits of my ghandi-like peace-nik hippie ideaology, but seeing stories like this ... well ... *sigh* It's just something you have to shake your head about.


I'd rather shake the heads of these two sick people instead.

*sigh* Few things test the limits of my ghandi-like peace-nik hippie ideaology, but seeing stories like this ... well ... *sigh* It's just something you have to shake your head about.

Well, we could get together and buy a rope and go to work. I know I would find some satisfaction in making them dance in the air.

Who knows, you might be able to enjoy it as well.

Peechland, I know your rage, and feel it too.

I live in a county with a population of 400,000 and know several people in our local child protective services division of Social Services. I was floored when I found out that there are right around 200 people working in that division. Some of the caseworkers have over 50 kids on their caseloads.
Averaging it out that means that there are somewhere around 10,000 kids around me involved in a case of abuse or neglect of some level of severity.

They have to see them in person at a minimum of once a month, both at school and whereever they are living. And usually it works out to more than that between all the meetings. And yah, there are plenty of stories of CPS workers who haven't done their job (Florida seems to have a lot of problems in particular) but for the most part, child abuse and neglect is far more commonplace than we care to acknowledge.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that this is a much bigger problem than I think anyone in society is willing to admit. Makes me sick. And for every horror story like this one, there are probably 10 more that don't make the media, and 20 more that go unknown.

Youre absolutely right. The government sets the budget for their state agencies and then they end up with employees with caseloads like you mentioned and theyre like "oh well". :confused:

Youre absolutely right. The government sets the budget for their state agencies and then they end up with employees with caseloads like you mentioned and theyre like "oh well". :confused:

The other problems are the laws. Depending on where you're at, even if you had 10,000 caseworkers, they would have their hands tied.

I don't beleive in the death penalty, but in this case I would love to see the community come together for some vigilante justice. Don't give the son of a bitch lethal injection, take him out and beat him to death.

I don't beleive in the death penalty, but in this case I would love to see the community come together for some vigilante justice. Don't give the son of a bitch lethal injection, take him out and beat him to death.

Oh, I'm all for hauling them up slowly on a rope. Takes 20 minutes of blue-faced tongue-bulging eye-popping struggle before they even lose consciousness.

I don't beleive in the death penalty, but in this case I would love to see the community come together for some vigilante justice. Don't give the son of a bitch lethal injection, take him out and beat him to death.


death is too good for people like this.....i agree...torture sounds about right. 30 straight days of it. give them an IV drip to keep them alive if necessary so they can go through the whole 30 days.

You people are sick. Why would you find satisfaction in the torture of a human being? It doesnt matter what the person has done or who the person is, any mentally stable human being would not be interested in watching someone be tortured to death. Perhaps you people are using this as an excuse for your sick fantasies? If you can dehumanize the victim, if you can convince yourself that it is not really a human being because of the terrible crimes the person has committed then maybe you can justify in your own mind the torture you fantasize about watching. You people make me sick.

You people are sick. Why would you find satisfaction in the torture of a human being? It doesnt matter what the person has done or who the person is, any mentally stable human being would not be interested in watching someone be tortured to death. Perhaps you people are using this as an excuse for your sick fantasies? If you can dehumanize the victim, if you can convince yourself that it is not really a human being because of the terrible crimes the person has committed then maybe you can justify in your own mind the torture you fantasize about watching. You people make me sick.

Tell you what, come on down to Northern Virginia, and I'll introduce you to some victims and perpetrators, and I am willing to bet you would change your mind.

It makes me ashamed to be human when I hear of these stories.

Been there myself though, so I know we get over it eventually....

(Wouldn't torture make us more like those we are torturing though...? I don't advocate turning the other cheek as such, just maybe deal with it like civilised people, however angry we become.)

Tell you what, come on down to Northern Virginia, and I'll introduce you to some victims and perpetrators, and I am willing to bet you would change your mind.

What makes you think I do not already know victims and/or perpetrators? Nothing changes my mind, I am not interested in watching torture no matter who the person being tortured is. Anyone who wants to watch torture is sick.

You people are sick. Why would you find satisfaction in the torture of a human being? It doesnt matter what the person has done or who the person is, any mentally stable human being would not be interested in watching someone be tortured to death. Perhaps you people are using this as an excuse for your sick fantasies? If you can dehumanize the victim, if you can convince yourself that it is not really a human being because of the terrible crimes the person has committed then maybe you can justify in your own mind the torture you fantasize about watching. You people make me sick.


Is this against your religious beliefs? I think stoning falls into this category. Maybe its people like you who are in charge of the current child protection services.....THAT would explain a lot. An eye for an eye my friend. You ever seen a child who was a victim of abuse? If not, youre very lucky. What exactly do you think would be the proper form of punishement? Free hotel accomodations at the state prison with a basketball court, pool table, cable tv, free meals? That ought to teach them.

...What exactly do you think would be the proper form of punishement?...

It depends on the case. Some people need mental help, others need to spend the rest of their lives in prison, and others need to be sentenced to death.

I quite agree. People who torture other innocent people in this manner deserve something equally heinous meted out to them. Not rehabilitation. Before someone says it, I don't care if it's 'reducing myself' to their level: if they hadn't been such an evil moron in the first place, they would have no need to have any punishment.

Sick, evil fuckers.


Yes....thinking about it...you are probably right....but rather than using chainsaws can we disembowel them with rusty spoons please? Can we? Please?

You people are sick. Why would you find satisfaction in the torture of a human being? It doesnt matter what the person has done or who the person is, any mentally stable human being would not be interested in watching someone be tortured to death. Perhaps you people are using this as an excuse for your sick fantasies? If you can dehumanize the victim, if you can convince yourself that it is not really a human being because of the terrible crimes the person has committed then maybe you can justify in your own mind the torture you fantasize about watching. You people make me sick.
The problem is that he is a human being. It's hard to imagine how a human could do such things. Wanting retribution is natural. I don't think people would be so angry if some non-human monster or animal did such a thing. There are people in prison who will sort this guy out nicely. The guards will almost certainly look the other way.

You people are sick. Why would you find satisfaction in the torture of a human being? It doesnt matter what the person has done or who the person is, any mentally stable human being would not be interested in watching someone be tortured to death. Perhaps you people are using this as an excuse for your sick fantasies? If you can dehumanize the victim, if you can convince yourself that it is not really a human being because of the terrible crimes the person has committed then maybe you can justify in your own mind the torture you fantasize about watching. You people make me sick.

I find it unbelievable that you expressed only the concern for the two people who tortured these children rather than the actual children who endured this. Did you even read the article??

The problem is that he is a human being. It's hard to imagine how a human could do such things. Wanting retribution is natural. I don't think people would be so angry if some non-human monster or animal did such a thing. There are people in prison who will sort this guy out nicely. The guards will almost certainly look the other way.

These people are often imprisoned seperately to avoid the 'mob justice' that would be delivered to them by their fellow inmates. there should be some kind of clause in sentencing that perpetrators of sexual crimes would be required to complete their FULL sentence unless a transfer to a psychiatric institute is ABSOLUTELY neccescary.

These people are often imprisoned seperately to avoid the 'mob justice' that would be delivered to them by their fellow inmates. there should be some kind of clause in sentencing that perpetrators of sexual crimes would be required to complete their FULL sentence unless a transfer to a psychiatric institute is ABSOLUTELY neccescary.
Even if the guy requests PC (protective custody or Punk City depending on your point of view), sombody will still be able to get to him. Prison guards have a habit of not being around to save scum like this.

I find it unbelievable that you expressed only the concern for the two people who tortured these children rather than the actual children who endured this. Did you even read the article??

I didnt express concern for the people who tortured these children. I expressed concern for the mental health of people like yourself who post torture fantasies under the disguise of punishing criminals.

I didnt express concern for the people who tortured these children. I expressed concern for the mental health of people like yourself who post torture fantasies under the disguise of punishing criminals.

good call. doing bad things to bad people isn't "justice" either.

good call. doing bad things to bad people isn't "justice" either.
No, but it is satisfying.

No, but it is satisfying.
When I see what it has done to my Ex ... yes it would be satisfying

No, but it is satisfying.

you just proved LazyHippies' point.

you just proved LazyHippies' point.
Anger is a natural thing ... rather be talking about it then doing it (talking is a good way to vent thus forestated anger)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050203/capt.mh10102032234.family_torture_fl_mh101.jpg

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=7&u=/ap/20050204/ap_on_re_us/family_torture


Someone please explain how this kind of thing happens. I want to fly to Florida right now and beat the shit out of these people and when I'm finished.....do it again. And again.

What measures can be taken to reduce the kinds of incidents that are happening with child abuse like this?? A few months back, here in my home town, an 11 year old girl was hospitalized for 2 months because her moms boyfriend had beaten her so severly, put her in a clothes dryer and turned it on, raped her brutally, which resulted in the tearing of her genitalia......and the bastard sewed her wounds up with fishing line! Some of the details were so horrific that the paper wouldnt even mention them. What in hells name in going on???

Theories abound as to why there is child abuse, but the bottom line is "we don't really know." Most psychologists will indicate that it is perpetuated because most child abusers were themselves abused as children. But that only explains one reason it continues, not why it begins in the first place.

My personal theory is that most of it stems from a personal self-hatred, which is then re-directed toward those least able to defend themselves. It amounts to a hatred of our own collective future.

The temptation for those of us who truly love children is to lash out at the perpetrators of child abuse, forgetting that they themselves were probably abused as children. Peechland, I suspect this is what had happened to the guy in the example from your own town.

The frequency of abuse by "boyfriends" or second husbands is high enough that I suspect there's more here than meets the eye. Perhaps some primitive urge ( as among male lions who take over a pride and then procede to kill all the offspring from the previous male ).

Let this sort of thing be a message to all of us to keep our eyes open where children are concerned. Don't assume child abuse unless it's obvious, but always err on the side of the child.

The key is to find ways to break the cycle of abuse. Vigilance is certainly one of the more effective ways. Teachers, neighbors ... anyone who suspects child abuse should report it and let the authorities decide if it truly is abuse.

I didnt express concern for the people who tortured these children. I expressed concern for the mental health of people like yourself who post torture fantasies under the disguise of punishing criminals.


My mental status is just fine but thanks for your concern. Only thing I fantasize about it winning the lottery. I'm pretty sure youre not qualified to diagnose people. :rolleyes:
How can you not be moved by this? I'm a 30 year old mother of two....you make me sound like some Marine Recon whos gone off the deep end and wants to go around slicing up people for kicks on Satuday night. If these were my children, and someone hurt them, I'd kill them dead....no questions asked. Thats a reflex. Being able to sit and think about what these children went through .....toenails pulled out by pliers, 14 year old who weighs 38 pounds, locked in a closet for stealing food, being hit with a hammer.......well I dont see any reason why the man and woman who did those things shouldnt suffer the same or similar fate. If that makes me crazy or mental by your standards.....too bad. What if those were your children?

...Most psychologists will indicate that it is perpetuated because most child abusers were themselves abused as children...

This is a common misunderstanding of the existing research on child abuse. Research does not show that most child abusers were themselves abused. What research shows is that a higher percentage of child abusers were abused than what you find in the general population. So, if in the general population 10% of people have been victims of abuse, you might find that among child abusers, 20% have been victims of abuse. The incidence of prior abuse is higher, but it still doesnt come close to accounting for most abusers.

This is a common misunderstanding of the existing research on child abuse. Research does not show that most child abusers were themselves abused. What research shows is that a higher percentage of child abusers were abused than what you find in the general population. So, if in the general population 10% of people have been victims of abuse, you might find that among child abusers, 20% have been victims of abuse. The incidence of prior abuse is higher, but it still doesnt come close to accounting for most abusers.

Thank you! I stand ( sit? ) corrected. :)

Fucking psycho's.

What if those were your children?

I would kill the perps. End of statment.

You defend your position quite well, e-daughter. My hat's off to you! :)

Yow, those parents should be castrated with chainsaws!

i disagree


shocked response GASP












the mans balls should be nailed with a big rusty hook to a a splintered workbench , where they are then filed down to nothing with a file.

How can you not be moved by this?

i don't think it's a case of not being moved. Frankly, these are the most cruel and disgusting things one human being can do to another. what is in question here is wether a more objective view of punishment -v- revenge might be appropriate.

that said, i agree with Krob, to an extent.

i disagree


shocked response GASP












the mans balls should be nailed with a big rusty nail to a a splintered workbench , where they are then filed down to nothing with a file

If the jailstories I've heard were right, they are gonna get a hard enough time in there.

Even criminals spit on (literally too) rapists and chils abusers.

I'll just take a leftist side on this one! ;)

You know, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because they're violent criminals doesn't mean it's OK to be one yourself. You can't ignore law and morality every time you feel personally angered and seek vengence.

After all we have the greater good to think of; the good of society is after all, more important than any small number of raped children. To make an omelette you have to break eggs, and I'm sure we can all agree that because their last names were "dollar" it all goes to show how evil capitalism is, and how our only possible solution to child abuse is for everyone to own equal amounts of everything.

Oh, and higher tax rates. That'll help.

But capital punishment? Ineffective and immoral!

I'll just take a leftist side on this one! ;)

You know, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because they're violent criminals doesn't mean it's OK to be one yourself. You can't ignore law and morality every time you feel personally angered and seek vengence.

After all we have the greater good to think of; the good of society is after all, more important than any small number of raped children. To make an omelette you have to break eggs, and I'm sure we can all agree that because their last names were "dollar" it all goes to show how evil capitalism is, and how our only possible solution to child abuse is for everyone to own equal amounts of everything.

Oh, and higher tax rates. That'll help.

But capital punishment? Ineffective and immoral!
I actually do feel that capital punishment is immoral. I think the state should set a moral example by not killing people who have been rendered harmless by being locked up.

I also have a bit of a vigilante streak. If I was on the jury of the guy who kills those two "parents", I wouldn't convict.

...What if those were your children?...

It is impossible to say how I would react. I would love to say that I would be mature about it and do the right thing, but realistically speaking I would probably go nuts and do something extreme. I wouldnt torture the person because I get no satisfaction from the suffering of a human being, but I might attack the person in a blind rage. Its impossible to say what I would do, feelings would take over. However, after I am able to calm down, I would strive to forgive that person. That doesnt mean the person shouldnt be punished, they obviously need to spend the rest of their life in prison. But I would seek to forgive the person and hold no grudge against them. What concerns me isnt that someone might take revenge on this person out of a blind rage, but that people here on this forum post fantasies about torture yet they arent in a rage, they are posting on an internet forum. This isnt something they are doing in a moment of passion, they are doing it while sitting calmly at a desk. These people arent operating out of a blind rage (which could be forgiven), they are coldly and calmly sharing fantasies of vile torture on an internet forum with the excuse that it is punishment so they can feel better about the depraved, vile, sick things they are posting.

What concerns me isnt that someone might take revenge on this person out of a blind rage, but that people here on this forum post fantasies about torture yet they arent in a rage, they are posting on an internet forum. This isnt something they are doing in a moment of passion, they are doing it while sitting calmly at a desk. These people arent operating out of a blind rage (which could be forgiven), they are coldly and calmly sharing fantasies of vile torture on an internet forum with the excuse that it is punishment so they can feel better about the depraved, vile, sick things they are posting.
I don't think anyone is "cold and calm" here. From what I've read, it seems to me that they are clearly outraged over this. I haven't seen any "cold and calm". It sure looks like a reaction based on feelings to me.

What makes you think I do not already know victims and/or perpetrators? Nothing changes my mind, I am not interested in watching torture no matter who the person being tortured is. Anyone who wants to watch torture is sick.
Quit whining. Just because you don't have the cojones (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cojones) to dole out vigilante justice doesn't mean the rest of us have to be whiny bitches. I bet if you had kids and something like that happened to one of them you would go balistic. Have you ever been in the position where someone close to you (kids, siblings, cousins, etc.) have been abused? If so, did you do something about it?

If I was on the jury of the guy who kills those two "parents", I wouldn't convict.

Neither would most others who serve on juries, particularly here in North Carolina. Ever hear of "Jury Nullification?"

I'll just take a leftist side on this one! ;)

You know, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because they're violent criminals doesn't mean it's OK to be one yourself. You can't ignore law and morality every time you feel personally angered and seek vengence.

After all we have the greater good to think of; the good of society is after all, more important than any small number of raped children. To make an omelette you have to break eggs, and I'm sure we can all agree that because their last names were "dollar" it all goes to show how evil capitalism is, and how our only possible solution to child abuse is for everyone to own equal amounts of everything.

Oh, and higher tax rates. That'll help.

But capital punishment? Ineffective and immoral!


I'm sure you are a very nice person, and so am I...so please forgive me for what I'm about to say to you:

Are you kidding me? After all we have the greater good to think of; the good of society is after all, more important than any small number of raped children. To make an omelette you have to break eggs

Do you realize how that sounds? These 7 children were more that a few "broken eggs" in this "omlet" of a world we are living in. Small number? An estimated 896,000 children were determined to be victims of child abuse or neglect in 2002. Thats just ONE year. :confused:


An in reply to the kind of punishment these people deserve......

Punishment is not primarily intended for the reformation of criminals, nor for the purpose of deterring others from crime. These results may be gained, but crime in itself demands punishment. Read throughout history; the administration of the same or similar form of punishment that the victim themsleves suffered, was perfectly acceptable and even expected. "Let the punishment fit the crime". If we arent supposed to look at the details and circumstances of each individual crime, then why do we have different levels of severity in regards to punishment? Just make one punishment for all criminals. Shoplifters can receive the same form of punishment that murders do. I mean hell, why bother with the details? Because different crimes deserve different punishments. Just because we hide behind a cloak of being 'civilized" and "moral" , doesnt change the fact that these people, and anyone else who does something like this, should receive the same suffering as these children. The heinous acts that these two individuals inflicted on these children were definitely NOT civilized acts. If you cant see that this is well beyond the ''two wrongs dont make a right"argument, then I feel sorry for you*.

*you=people in general

Oh, I'm all for hauling them up slowly on a rope. Takes 20 minutes of blue-faced tongue-bulging eye-popping struggle before they even lose consciousness.
Bah, just take a page, well actually a chapter, out of Tom Clancy's book, Without Remorse. Use a diver's tank to torture the idiots. It'll end up killing them, just not anytime soon.

this

this
:confused:

:confused:


i just thought id make you use the :confused: smiley is all

no i bumped it cause another thread was posted with the same thing and idont want this one to be lost

i just thought id make you use the :confused: smiley is all

no i bumped it cause another thread was posted with the same thing and idont want this one to be lost
:confused:

Damn.... you made me do it again.

:confused:

Damn.... you made me do it again.

did u check your email doof

did u check your email doof
Yes. :fluffle:

I've been trying to rip some songs off the CD, but it's not working for some reason. :(


EDIT: "That's a huuuuuuuuuuuge car" (http://www.baggerunited.nl/band/foto/albums/6/HPIM1707.JPG) ;)

Yes. :fluffle:

I've been trying to rip some songs off the CD, but it's not working for some reason. :(
Put some butter on the CD ... that helps

I've tried it with peanutbutter, because we were out of normal butter. My computer is making stange noises now. That's a good sign right?

I've tried it with peanutbutter, because we were out of normal butter. My computer is making stange noises now. That's a good sign right?

I make strange noises when I eat peanut butter. Sometimes it sticks to the roof of my mouth. I think it's perfectly normal.

Creamy or Chunky?

I make strange noises when I eat peanut butter. Sometimes it sticks to the roof of my mouth. I think it's perfectly normal.

Creamy or Chunky?
I tried, but my tongue got electric shocks. I'm guessing creamy

I tried, but my tongue got electric shocks. I'm guessing creamy

WARNING: You are hijacking this thread. Continued abuse of thread topics will result in your being smeared with peanut butter and beaten with a leather strap! :D

WARNING: You are hijacking this thread. Continued abuse of thread topics will result in your being smeared with peanut butter and beaten with a leather strap! :D
You tease you [/hijack]

Put some butter on the CD ... that helpsbutter or vaseline...It helps the "input"

WARNING: You are hijacking this thread. Continued abuse of thread topics will result in your being smeared with peanut butter and beaten with a leather strap! :D

Reminds me of my college fraternity days. :eek:

butter or vaseline...It helps the "input"
lard helps too!

Reminds me of my college fraternity days. :eek:
pfft reminds me of yesterday!

I tried, but my tongue got electric shocks. I'm guessing creamyholy madona santa !!!

pfft reminds me of yesterday!

I'm not allowed to discuss my current sexual antics with my wife. It's one of the rules. :p

Peechland, I know your rage, and feel it too.

I live in a county with a population of 400,000 and know several people in our local child protective services division of Social Services. I was floored when I found out that there are right around 200 people working in that division. Some of the caseworkers have over 50 kids on their caseloads.
Averaging it out that means that there are somewhere around 10,000 kids around me involved in a case of abuse or neglect of some level of severity.

They have to see them in person at a minimum of once a month, both at school and whereever they are living. And usually it works out to more than that between all the meetings. And yah, there are plenty of stories of CPS workers who haven't done their job (Florida seems to have a lot of problems in particular) but for the most part, child abuse and neglect is far more commonplace than we care to acknowledge.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that this is a much bigger problem than I think anyone in society is willing to admit. Makes me sick. And for every horror story like this one, there are probably 10 more that don't make the media, and 20 more that go unknown.

If a caseworker has a caseload of more than 30 it is pretty much impossible to do the job the way the fed. and state guidelines expect you to. The job can't be done right. The Feds and states are always willing to make a new law or regulation to keep kids safe and make themselves look good; they just aren't willing to spend the money to hire and train enough workers to do the job correctly. This is my field. I license foster homes in a rural county and we have a huge problem also.

I'm not allowed to discuss my current sexual antics with my wife. It's one of the rules. :pIt is a good rule.

im going to kill each and every one of you for spamming up my serious thread. how often does peechland go into a rage??????? :mad:

Sorry Miss Peechland :(

im going to kill each and every one of you for spamming up my serious thread. how often does peechland go into a rage??????? :mad:i dont know, you are not my woman.

im going to kill each and every one of you for spamming up my serious thread. how often does peechland go into a rage??????? :mad:

Pardon. I can't help myself.

:fluffle:

i dont know, you are not my woman.
Hey, LeglessPirates, How often does she "goes into a rave"?

Hey, LeglessPirates, How often does she "goes into a rave"?
This is either the first time, or I'm an insensitive bitch

This is either the first time, or I'm an insensitive bitch
you are just an insensitive biotch :D :D :D

You tease you [/hijack]

;)

i dont know, you are not my woman.

Actually this is a good example of why we have such a huge child abuse problem in this country. People don't take it very seriously. Just as a few posters on this thread start talking about something that is not even close to the topic the general population reads a headline says my,my this is terrible and says we should do something and then moves on to the topic of the day. There are serious problems in our society. We don't value children. Some religions say that small children as little as two or three have the devil in them when they are disobiendent. women shouldn't speak up in church. There are many other examples where women and children aren't valued. That is part of the problem of why child abuse is so prevelant. We need to spend much more money on prevention and we need to have public policy that puts children first not last.

arrrg @ you boys!

say something mean about the two monsters i'm raving about!


:fluffle: 's you all anyway.....


back to the mean ugly people now

As I said before....
If the jailstories I've heard were right, they are gonna get a hard enough time in there.

Even criminals spit on (literally too) rapists and chils abusers.

arrrg @ you boys!

say something mean about the two monsters i'm raving about!


:fluffle: 's you all anyway.....


back to the mean ugly people now

Um... they deserve neither peanut butter nor whipping.

I pretty much spoke my mind in the other thread. I'm depressed that they probably won't spend anywhere near the amount of time they deserve behind bars. But at least their parenting days are over.

Some rather creative methods for revenge are percolating in my mind, however.

Actually this is a good example of why we have such a huge child abuse problem in this country. People don't take it very seriously. Just as a few posters on this thread start talking about something that is not even close to the topic the general population reads a headline says my,my this is terrible and says we should do something and then moves on to the topic of the day. There are serious problems in our society. We don't value children. Some religions say that small children as little as two or three have the devil in them when they are disobiendent. women shouldn't speak up in church. There are many other examples where women and children aren't valued. That is part of the problem of why child abuse is so prevelant. We need to spend much more money on prevention and we need to have public policy that puts children first not last.

I disagree. If you will notice, many threads which generate intense emotions will seem to be "hijacked" after a period of time. The reason for this is to help people cope with their rage and/or sorrow, particularly by using humor. If you wait just awhile, the topic will eventually return to the base topic of the thread. Besides which, once you vent your anger and/or sorrow and state your case for what you would like to do or see happen, there's not an awful lot else to say.

Anybody who has seen those pictures of them should have figured there was something wrong with them. That woman is simultaneously the happiest, craziest, and scariest person I have ever seen.

arrrg @ you boys!

say something mean about the two monsters i'm raving about!


:fluffle: 's you all anyway.....


back to the mean ugly people nowthe tree or Iraq Insurgents,

4 or 5 years is just not adequate.

Actually this is a good example of why we have such a huge child abuse problem in this country. People don't take it very seriously. Just as a few posters on this thread start talking about something that is not even close to the topic the general population reads a headline says my,my this is terrible and says we should do something and then moves on to the topic of the day. There are serious problems in our society. We don't value children. Some religions say that small children as little as two or three have the devil in them when they are disobiendent. women shouldn't speak up in church. There are many other examples where women and children aren't valued. That is part of the problem of why child abuse is so prevelant. We need to spend much more money on prevention and we need to have public policy that puts children first not last.


yes you are right. MUCH more funding and publicity should go into this cause. The children need a voice to speak for them. They look to adults to protect them and care for them, and then when someone is torturing them, I'm sure it frightens them to the point where they feel like theres no one to help them. Its horrific some of the stories I've read. And yet it still continues. Theres more hype about sporting events than child abuse. And a substantial amount of money also...when a Budweiser commercial goes for $2 milliion for a 60 second advertisement, yet theres not enough money to go around to hire the appropriate number of children services workers....well its just messed up.

I would love to see some discussion about the fine line between discipline and child abuse.

I get the distinct impression that some on here are strongly opposed to any sort of corporal punishment for children. I don't agree with this. I certainly don't think that leaving bruises or marks on a child, particularly a very young one, is appropriate. I do, however, favor a swat on the bottom when a child is in danger of doing harm to him/herself or someone else, or is destroying valuable property. It goes almost without saying that this should only come after repeated warnings and should be age-appropriate.

What say you?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=7&u=/ap/20050204/ap_on_re_us/family_torture


Someone please explain how this kind of thing happens. I want to fly to Florida right now and beat the shit out of these people and when I'm finished.....do it again. And again.

What measures can be taken to reduce the kinds of incidents that are happening with child abuse like this?? A few months back, here in my home town, an 11 year old girl was hospitalized for 2 months because her moms boyfriend had beaten her so severly, put her in a clothes dryer and turned it on, raped her brutally, which resulted in the tearing of her genitalia......and the bastard sewed her wounds up with fishing line! Some of the details were so horrific that the paper wouldnt even mention them. What in hells name in going on???
"Peechland's rage"?

Make it "NS' Rage"!

yes you are right. MUCH more funding and publicity should go into this cause. The children need a voice to speak for them. They look to adults to protect them and care for them, and then when someone is torturing them, I'm sure it frightens them to the point where they feel like theres no one to help them. Its horrific some of the stories I've read. And yet it still continues. Theres more hype about sporting events than child abuse. And a substantial amount of money also...when a Budweiser commercial goes for $2 milliion for a 60 second advertisement, yet theres not enough money to go around to hire the appropriate number of children services workers....well its just messed up.

North Carolina has a program for friends of the court who function as child advocates. It seems to work pretty well.

I would love to see some discussion about the fine line between discipline and child abuse.

I get the distinct impression that some on here are strongly opposed to any sort of corporal punishment for children. I don't agree with this. I certainly don't think that leaving bruises or marks on a child, particularly a very young one, is appropriate. I do, however, favor a swat on the bottom when a child is in danger of doing harm to him/herself or someone else, or is destroying valuable property. It goes almost without saying that this should only come after repeated warnings and should be age-appropriate.

What say you?
I totally agree and have nothing to add.

"Peechland's rage"?

Make it "NS' Rage"!

Agreed.

I totally agree and have nothing to add.

Wow! I may faint! :D

I knew there was some reason I liked you! :fluffle:

I disagree. If you will notice, many threads which generate intense emotions will seem to be "hijacked" after a period of time. The reason for this is to help people cope with their rage and/or sorrow, particularly by using humor. If you wait just awhile, the topic will eventually return to the base topic of the thread. Besides which, once you vent your anger and/or sorrow and state your case for what you would like to do or see happen, there's not an awful lot else to say.


Youre right Poppy.....and my blood pressure has lowered a few points because of this very fact. I'm a very passionate person. The bad part about that is that while I'm very loving and sensative to other people....I also become enraged when I see something like this. I cant simply turn my head and say ''well how sad, but thats life." I just dont work that way. I;ve decided not to just rant about it, but get involved. If I dont find an organization that I feel can truely make a difference about this.......I'll start one of my own. If I dont accomplish anything other than making more people aware of what is happening to children, then so be it. Maybe at least then, one child's suffering might be reduced or eliminated due to someone paying more attention of the warning signs of situations like this.

Wow! I may faint! :D

I knew there was some reason I liked you! :fluffle:
yeah yeah.... well... don't get used to it :eek:

:fluffle:

Youre right Poppy.....and my blood pressure has lowered a few points because of this very fact. I'm a very passionate person. The bad part about that is that while I'm very loving and sensative to other people....I also become enraged when I see something like this. I cant simply turn my head and say ''well how sad, but thats life." I just dont work that way. I;ve decided not to just rant about it, but get involved. If I dont find an organization that I feel can truely make a difference about this.......I'll start one of my own. If I dont accomplish anything other than making more people aware of what is happening to children, then so be it. Maybe at least then, one child's suffering might be reduced or eliminated due to someone paying more attention of the warning signs of situations like this.

I'm with you, beautiful lady ( inside as well as out! ). Let me know how I can help. I have a very popular Website if you decide to start an organization of your own. We can host an online presence for you free of charge.

yeah yeah.... well... don't get used to it :eek:

:fluffle:

LOL! Well, I learned a long time ago not to get use to too many things. :)

"Peechland's rage"?

Make it "NS' Rage"!

apparently, not all of us NSer are enraged about it. We've been accused of being mentally ill and we using our anger as a mask for secret fantasies of wanting to torture people ourselves. :rolleyes: some previous posts showed only concern for the two people who tortured these children and how if they were given the same treatment, then how mean that would be. sigh

LOL! Well, I learned a long time ago not to get use to too many things. :)
you learned EVERYTHING a long time ago :eek:
:fluffle:

apparently, not all of us NSer are enraged about it. We've been accused of being mentally ill and we using our anger as a mask for secret fantasies of wanting to torture people ourselves. :rolleyes: some previous posts showed only concern for the two people who tortured these children and how if they were given the same treatment, then how mean that would be. sigh
Sorry, didn't read the whole thread yet. Just got back home.

I would love to see some discussion about the fine line between discipline and child abuse.

I get the distinct impression that some on here are strongly opposed to any sort of corporal punishment for children. I don't agree with this. I certainly don't think that leaving bruises or marks on a child, particularly a very young one, is appropriate. I do, however, favor a swat on the bottom when a child is in danger of doing harm to him/herself or someone else, or is destroying valuable property. It goes almost without saying that this should only come after repeated warnings and should be age-appropriate.

What say you?
What say me?
I say "marry me" you are purrfect.

I would love to see some discussion about the fine line between discipline and child abuse.

I get the distinct impression that some on here are strongly opposed to any sort of corporal punishment for children. I don't agree with this. I certainly don't think that leaving bruises or marks on a child, particularly a very young one, is appropriate. I do, however, favor a swat on the bottom when a child is in danger of doing harm to him/herself or someone else, or is destroying valuable property. It goes almost without saying that this should only come after repeated warnings and should be age-appropriate.

What say you?

I can only speak for Minnesota, but the difference between child abuse and discipline in simple terms is did they leave a mark, was some harm done to the child. Parents, under the law are allowed to use physical means to discipline children as long as it doesn't leave marks. It is a bit more complicated than this but for this discussion it covers it pretty well.

In my opinion, punishment used for disicpline is seldom effect, unless used sparingly, very sparingly. I have three children and only "spanked" one, one time. Children need love and patience and consitency. They need boundries that are clear and then consequences for actions not just threats.

I'm with you, beautiful lady ( inside as well as out! ). Let me know how I can help. I have a very popular Website if you decide to start an organization of your own. We can host an online presence for you free of charge.


Thank you :) I'll be in touch. Bush is getting a letter too next week. I should send 1 a day til someone responds to me. I'm relentless like that you know. ;)

Just saw this thread now.

Some people are bullies who get off on harming people who weaker than them. Abusive parents are the lowest of the low: it does not take much to torture a little helpless kid who only has you for protection.

I'd like to see those parents try the same sick routine with a roomful of heavyweight boxing champions.

Cowards. :mad:

Just saw this thread now.

Some people are bullies who get off on harming people who weaker than them. Abusive parents are the lowest of the low: it does not take much to torture a little helpless kid who only has you for protection.

I'd like to see those parents try the same sick routine with a roomful of heavyweight boxing champions.

Cowards. :mad:

word clowny.......well said.

you learned EVERYTHING a long time ago :eek:
:fluffle:

Oh boy. :rolleyes:

You could have gone all day without saying that! :mp5:

What say me?
I say "marry me" you are purrfect.

Wow! Say when! :D

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

I can only speak for Minnesota, but the difference between child abuse and discipline in simple terms is did they leave a mark, was some harm done to the child. Parents, under the law are allowed to use physical means to discipline children as long as it doesn't leave marks. It is a bit more complicated than this but for this discussion it covers it pretty well.

In my opinion, punishment used for disicpline is seldom effect, unless used sparingly, very sparingly. I have three children and only "spanked" one, one time. Children need love and patience and consitency. They need boundries that are clear and then consequences for actions not just threats.

Very true. Constant repetition, rewards for good behavior ( such as reading a special book to the child, etc. ), and mild corporal punishment in the circumstances I indicated in the post you referenced are usually most effective with most children.

When my ex and I first got married, I was still in the military and very young, so I didn't understand all this. I was very stern with the three children by her previous marriage and still feel guilty about it. After I understood better, I apologized to each of them and asked them to forgive me for being less than perfect. Being the sort of people they have become, they forgave me and even told me that they probably needed a firm hand. God, I love my children! :D

Oh boy. :rolleyes:

You could have gone all day without saying that! :mp5:
I'm just jealous. :(

I'm just jealous. :(

Of WHAT? An old, disabled, half-mad Vietnam vet who lives alone on a meager budget? Heh!

Of WHAT? An old, disabled, half-mad Vietnam vet who lives alone on a meager budget? Heh!
err.... just the old part. I still have to make it that far.

Plus you have grandchildren. I want those :(

(okay that last thing wasn't very appropriate in this thread.... sorry)

Of WHAT? An old, disabled, half-mad Vietnam vet who lives alone on a meager budget? Heh!ahem you are..male?

Valentines day!
http://www.christmas-treasures.com/OldWorldChristmas/Catalog/GlassOrnaments/Images/30017.jpg

Awww! Ain't you da sweetie, though! Mwaaaah! :fluffle:

Just saw this thread now.

Some people are bullies who get off on harming people who weaker than them. Abusive parents are the lowest of the low: it does not take much to torture a little helpless kid who only has you for protection.

I'd like to see those parents try the same sick routine with a roomful of heavyweight boxing champions.

Cowards. :mad:

What is often the first reaction when people hear about child abuse is to give them more of the same. It is understandable but, in the long run, ineffective. These children still love their parents and want to be with them, except in the worst physical cases. Retraining of parents is difficult and lengthy but it can be done. What is really required is to raise the status of women in our society, and to raise the status of those who train children--women for the most part. Mothers are the first educators of children, yet the last in status in society.

Thank you :) I'll be in touch. Bush is getting a letter too next week. I should send 1 a day til someone responds to me. I'm relentless like that you know. ;)

LOL! Yes, you are Peechy Relentless, defender of small children, furry animals, and old Vietnam veterans. :D

.. These children still love their parents and want to be with them....I dont think so.

" the Dollars struck them with a hammer, administered electric shocks and used pliers to pull off their toenails"

think about it for a second..

ahem you are..male?

Um ... yessss. At least I was the last time I looked? Did I make you uncomfortable? Sorry about that. Guess I should have been a tad more ... um ... circumspect? :D

err.... just the old part. I still have to make it that far.

Plus you have grandchildren. I want those :(

(okay that last thing wasn't very appropriate in this thread.... sorry)

Not at all. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who loves children, whether grand or otherwise, is A-OK in my book. :D

Um ... yessss. At least I was the last time I looked? Did I make you uncomfortable? Sorry about that. Guess I should have been a tad more ... um ... circumspect? :DLOL,
your name and spamQueen title got me.

*builds a bomb to destroy the unmaned Mail distribution center*

LOL,
your name and spamQueen title got me.

*builds a bomb to destroy the unmaned Mail distribution center*
You both are still getting married though. I already called the priest.

What is often the first reaction when people hear about child abuse is to give them more of the same. It is understandable but, in the long run, ineffective. These children still love their parents and want to be with them, except in the worst physical cases. Retraining of parents is difficult and lengthy but it can be done. What is really required is to raise the status of women in our society, and to raise the status of those who train children--women for the most part. Mothers are the first educators of children, yet the last in status in society.

Children who are abused by their parents should be taken away from those parents.

What a child may want and what's good for the child are two different things.

a) A child who is being sexually abused by a parent WILL be re-abused if the parent and child are reunited. It's a fact. So permanent removal of the child from the home is the best thing for the child.

b) A child who is being beated by a parent WILL be re-abused if the parent and child are reunited.

c) A child who is being mentally abused by a parent WILL be re-abused if the parent and child are reunited.

I've seen too many cases of each. And in each case, what may have started out as a lesser degree of each becomes a greater degree.

Parents who do the worst of these things need to be publicly executed. There isn't any treatment that is going to work for them.

You both are still getting married though. I already called the priest.
the priest will call in sick...also in 20 min...Im blowing-up all the mailed invitations.

and LeglesPirate...I know were you live :D :sniper:

What is often the first reaction when people hear about child abuse is to give them more of the same. It is understandable but, in the long run, ineffective. These children still love their parents and want to be with them, except in the worst physical cases. Retraining of parents is difficult and lengthy but it can be done. What is really required is to raise the status of women in our society, and to raise the status of those who train children--women for the most part. Mothers are the first educators of children, yet the last in status in society.

I agree in part and disagree in part. The part with which I disagree is that they "still love their parents." They weren't the Dollars' biological parents, and what they feel toward the Dollars would be better described as a type of dependency, which is often mis-described as "love."

I dont think so.

" the Dollars struck them with a hammer, administered electric shocks and used pliers to pull off their toenails"

you are clueless...

If you read the post I did mention, "except in the worst physical cases." So please lets not turn this in something personal with all the insults exchanged between people who are convinced they are right. The lives of these children are to precious for our egos to get in the way. Also, I was not talking just about this one case. For the most part in case of abuse and neglect the parents love their children and the children love their parents and want to be with them. The real issue is the training of parents who need help. The real issue is prevention. It is easy to talk about revenge; those are normal reactions that even people who have done this for years have, it just isn't very effective.

I dont think so.

" the Dollars struck them with a hammer, administered electric shocks and used pliers to pull off their toenails"

think about it for a second..

I agree with Ocean.......its a good thought though Good Thoughts.

We take drivers licenses away from people who behave carelessly on the road.....we should hold the same standard for parents who abuse children....they shouldnt be allowed to parent.


poppy, LP.....STOP the love affair

LOL,
your name and spamQueen title got me.

*builds a bomb to destroy the unmaned Mail distribution center*

ROFLMAO!!!! Oh God! Hahahahahaha!

Has no one yet told you that those "titles" are generated by the Jolt system based on how many posts you make? :D

I would love to see some discussion about the fine line between discipline and child abuse.

I get the distinct impression that some on here are strongly opposed to any sort of corporal punishment for children. I don't agree with this. I certainly don't think that leaving bruises or marks on a child, particularly a very young one, is appropriate. I do, however, favor a swat on the bottom when a child is in danger of doing harm to him/herself or someone else, or is destroying valuable property. It goes almost without saying that this should only come after repeated warnings and should be age-appropriate.

What say you?

In New York, it's pretty much that you can spank your kid, you just can't leave a mark. A swat on the bottom isn't going to get your parental rights terminated.

I agree with Ocean.......its a good thought though Good Thoughts.

We take drivers licenses away from people who behave carelessly on the road.....we should hold the same standard for parents who abuse children....they shouldnt be allowed to parent.


poppy, LP.....STOP the love affair
Couldn't agree more. Drunk drivers and abusive parents can both be deadly. Severely abusive parents should be sterilized.

You both are still getting married though. I already called the priest.

ROFL! AS IF!

There are two HUGE problems with that ...

1. I'm still "technically" married, never having divorced my wife, even though we've been separated for several years this time.

2. I'm male, which isn't a problem in some states, but I'm "hoplessly" heterosexual, so it wouldn't be a very effective marriage. ;)

Children who are abused by their parents should be taken away from those parents.

What a child may want and what's good for the child are two different things.

a) A child who is being sexually abused by a parent WILL be re-abused if the parent and child are reunited. It's a fact. So permanent removal of the child from the home is the best thing for the child.

b) A child who is being beated by a parent WILL be re-abused if the parent and child are reunited.

c) A child who is being mentally abused by a parent WILL be re-abused if the parent and child are reunited.

I've seen too many cases of each. And in each case, what may have started out as a lesser degree of each becomes a greater degree.

Parents who do the worst of these things need to be publicly executed. There isn't any treatment that is going to work for them.

I have worked in this field for many years and I understand what you are saying and I agree. I was not advocating leaving children in abusive situations. That children should be removed when it is a question of safety is obvious. What you are wanting is a fight and I refuse.

b) A child who is being beated by a parent

c) A child who is being mentally abused by a parent.Definition for b) ?? and specially definition for c) ????

while in this case I would serve Justice by giving the DeathPenaly...

I am not ready to give carte-Blanche to all the PedoPsyco-experts..specially the ones that have only 1 kid...and manytimes do not have any.

Has no one yet told you that those "titles" are generated by the Jolt system based on how many posts you make? :Dwell no...in 2005 I deservedly got the title PIMP...

I was werry honored :p

well no...in 2005 I deservedly got the title PIMP...

I was werry honored :p

LOL! Well, after your proposal, I can well understand why! Hehehe! :D

ROFL! AS IF!

There are two HUGE problems with that ...

1. I'm still "technically" married, never having divorced my wife, even though we've been separated for several years this time.

2. I'm male, which isn't a problem in some states, but I'm "hoplessly" heterosexual, so it wouldn't be a very effective marriage. ;)

Sounds like somebody's got the jitters. Don't worry it's perfectly normal have doubts before the big day.

Sounds like somebody's got the jitters. Don't worry it's perfectly normal have doubts before the big day.

Eat this ... :mp5:

:D

I have worked in this field for many years and I understand what you are saying and I agree. I was not advocating leaving children in abusive situations. That children should be removed when it is a question of safety is obvious. What you are wanting is a fight and I refuse.

What role do you play in this field?

What is often the first reaction when people hear about child abuse is to give them more of the same. It is understandable but, in the long run, ineffective. These children still love their parents and want to be with them, except in the worst physical cases. Retraining of parents is difficult and lengthy but it can be done. What is really required is to raise the status of women in our society, and to raise the status of those who train children--women for the most part. Mothers are the first educators of children, yet the last in status in society.

That sounds very patronizing and sexist attitude toward women. A lot of mothers are also abusers and child killers, as was the case Peechland first brought up. Women aren't children; they have the same intellectual capabilities as men and can make independent decisions on their own. They can vote, drive, work just like men. They can also be as bullying, selfish, and irresponsible as adult men.

Adults who abuse children are cowards who lack a moral compass. Someone weak and vulnerable is put in your care and what do you do? Protect them or take advantage of them?

As for the fact that children love their parents, most of them have no one else to love. That's no reason why the state should be lenient toward people who hurt children. Other abusers have to know what's waiting for them if they let their baser drives harm their offspring.

What role do you play in this field?

I believe in an earlier post in this thread in stated that I license foster homes. I have done child protection work and I have done counseling.

I believe in an earlier post in this thread in stated that I license foster homes. I have done child protection work and I have done counseling.


Easy on the defense good thoughts....we've been friendly thus far. My tone wasnt "well how do you know/what role do you play" in a smart ass tone.

It was a legitimate question...I didnt recall you stated earlier what your position was. I cant remember all 140 replies. Thought you might have some inside info that would add to the discussion.

That sounds very patronizing and sexist attitude toward women. A lot of mothers are also abusers and child killers, as was the case Peechland first brought up. Women aren't children; they have the same intellectual capabilities as men and can make independent decisions on their own. They can vote, drive, work just like men. They can also be as bullying, selfish, and irresponsible as adult men.

Adults who abuse children are cowards who lack a moral compass. Someone weak and vulnerable is put in your care and what do you do? Protect them or take advantage of them?

As for the fact that children love their parents, most of them have no one else to love. That's no reason why the state should be lenient toward people who hurt children. Other abusers have to know what's waiting for them if they let their baser drives harm their offspring.

It is pretty clear no one really wants to talk about changing a system that is wearing out from overwork. Read all of my posts. Where did I say that women have less intellectual capabilities than men. I said society needs to put the same importance in those who raise children as it does in other things, like football games for instance.

It is pretty clear no one really wants to talk about changing a system that is wearing out from overwork. Read all of my posts. Where did I say that women have less intellectual capabilities than men. I said society needs to put the same importance in those who raise children as it does in other things, like football games for instance.


I said exactly that earlier....during the super bowl , networks gets $2 mil for a 60 second commercial yet we dont have enough money to pay for the appropriate number case workers.

its just rediculous.

I said exactly that earlier....during the super bowl , networks gets $2 mil for a 60 second commercial yet we dont have enough money to pay for enough case workers.

its just rediculous.

If we took that kind of money and put it into education for young mothers and fathers who have warning signs of abusive how much could be accomplished. It would take much more than of course, but it is a start. For the most part women are still the first educators of the children and special attention should be given to the role of motherhood in our society instead of quarterbacks and widereceivers. If we raised up the status of motherhood to that of more importance than the sports star we would go along way to lowering the rate of child abuse and neglect.

Easy on the defense good thoughts....we've been friendly thus far. My tone wasnt "well how do you know/what role do you play" in a smart ass tone.

It was a legitimate question...I didnt recall you stated earlier what your position was. I cant remember all 140 replies. Thought you might have some inside info that would add to the discussion.

I apolgize but earlier someone said i don't have a clue after misquoting me. and there were several other comments from people would either didn't read what I said or simply didn't want to understand. I have to go help my wife with the daycare. Back later.

So this adds nothing to the discussion, but there is a old radio program about the action packed life of a freelance insurance claims adjustor that is told through his expense account (and it isn't done ironiclly, they where serious...) called Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar. And when I read the names of the parents, I couldn't get it out of my head, though now he's telling me how he's on the lamb after nailing his kid on the head...through his expense account because even in retirement he's an anal bastard....

Anyway, back to the conversation at hand...

I apolgize but earlier someone said i don't have a clue after misquoting me. and there were several other comments from people would either didn't read what I said or simply didn't want to understand. I have to go help my wife with the daycare. Back later.


I for one, do think you have a clue. We dont agree on the method of punishments these people should receive, but your opinoins are still welcome and valid. I'm extremely passionate about this subject and when I read that news link, I felt like someone had done those horrible things to my own children.

The problem is that he is a human being. It's hard to imagine how a human could do such things. Wanting retribution is natural. I don't think people would be so angry if some non-human monster or animal did such a thing. There are people in prison who will sort this guy out nicely. The guards will almost certainly look the other way.

And, therein lies the rub.

If a crazy dog inflicted hieous wounds on a child, there would be no thought about what should be done with the dog - it would be instantly 'put down' by whatever means were closest to hand.

But, because we are dealing with a 'person', all of a sudden - animal behaviour is tolerable.

Personally - I think living in a 'civilised' society is a privilege - that you EARN by being a person. Stop acting like a person, and you opt out of the society... so, someone who foresakes their 'personhood' sufficiently to commit these kinds of abuse, opts out of civilised society, and can rightfully receive the punishment befitting their animal nature.

I for one, do think you have a clue. We dont agree on the method of punishments these people should receive, but your opinoins are still welcome and valid. I'm extremely passionate about this subject and when I read that news link, I felt like someone had done those horrible things to my own children.

If we are talking about the Dollars then I would agree that a very, very long time in prison is called for. If we are taking about most of the abuse and neglect that takes place in this country then there are other methods. To really solve the problem just putting people in jail does very little. Education and prevention in the early years will solve the problem. The Lakota word for child is sacred person or being, I forget the exact translation, but the point is that we as a society need to place a higher value on children and those who care for them. Teachers should have a higher value in sociey than football players and I say this as someone who enjoys football very much.

...Education and prevention ....Education and prevention ??

...I dont think that would have stopped the Dollars...they are Animals...nothing less than the Gas-chamber fits thier crime.

Parents who lose it and smack their child are different from those that systematically torture them. Parents who allow stress to get to them and behave inappropriately may benefit from counseling or parenting classes. Those that premeditatedly harm the child can't.
Most parents can identify with the feeling of wanting to shake or slap a child, it's just that most of us have the self-control not to.
We can't identify with someone who injures them with malice or forethought.

Education and prevention ??

...I dont think that would have stopped the Dollars...they are Animals...nothing less than the Gas-chamber fits thier crime.
Just shoot the fuckers and be done with it.