NationStates Jolt Archive

What race was Jesus, and what religion was Jesus? Don't be too hasty now.

What race was Jesus,

Homo sapiens. Ethnicity - Nazarite.

and what religion was Jesus?

Jewish.

Don't focus on who he was, what he was like, what religion he was, etc. Focus on what he taught.

Actually, I'm just focusing on technicalities. I'm bored and I'd love to see the vast answers I receive. Because, down where I live, I get a lot of different ones. :P

ok, I'll try to find what point you're trying to make

is it...?

1. You hate jews or think that WE do, and want us to see that our teacher is one of our "enemy"

2. that we should be nice to the jews, as Jesus was one.

3. You are trying to get a dumbass to answer "white american, Catholic" so you can make all christians look stupid

4. you have no point and are really dumb.

5. you think he's white and American and you need to settle a bet with a friend

What race was Jesus, and what religion was Jesus? Don't be too hasty now.

Jesus was obviously an extraterrestrial. *nod*

he was jewish and whether you think that's a religion or a race or whatever... i don't care. i don't know what race he would be...

No, I'm really bored. And I also want to know why a lot of people tend to have such a broad opinion about Jesus' ethnic and religious background.

In all intensive purposes, making you look stupid? Not quite, no. But it would be nice if you could agree on your own Messiah's background uniformly.

He was half Samoan and half Japanese. And he was into wicca.

He was half Samoan and half Japanese. And he was into wicca.

Jesus was christian. He had very high self-esteem. He believed in himself. That's why he had eternal life. ;)

Jesus established the Christian Faith and was not a Jew.

Jesus was christian. He had very high self-esteem. He believed in himself. That's why he had eternal life. ;)
He was still half Samoan and half Japanese. You can't argue with that part.

Jesus established the Christian Faith and was not a Jew.
Nowhere in the bible does he state that he has abandoned Judaism. Nowhere in the bible does he say he's the messiah. He was a Jew. Or maybe a Wiccan, I'm not sure.

He was still half Samoan and half Japanese. You can't argue with that part.

Indeed. He was short and fat. *nod*

Nowhere in the bible does he state that he has abandoned Judaism. Nowhere in the bible does he say he's the messiah. He was a Jew. Or maybe a Wiccan, I'm not sure.
The Jews killed Him.

chrisitianity started as a jewish sect. jesus was jewish. he taught that he was the promised messiah. those who believed him formed the Way. at the church at antioch they are first called chrisitians.

"Of course he was jewish[Jesus]. He was in his thirties, single, living at home. Worked in his father's business. His mother thought he was God's gift. He was jewish! Give it up!" -Robin Williams

The Jews killed Him.
How many people are killed every day by their own kind? Hell, Salman Rushdie has a price on his head courtesy of his fellow muslims.

How many people are killed every day by their own kind? Hell, Salman Rushdie has a price on his head courtesy of his fellow muslims.
By killing Him, the Jews drew their last straw with God and the corrupt Jewish religion was destroyed as evident by the the destruction of the temple.
Jesus did not resurrect as a Jew, but as a light to all the world.

He was a man, according to the bible, and yet he is at the same time God. God is most certainly not a man, though man is said to be made in his image.

Jesus was Jewish, and probably expected his revelations to be treated as part of the Jewish religion. That's not how it worked out though. There were two main groups of Christians in the time shortly after his death, Jewish Christians and Hellenistic Christians. Jewish Christians linked their faith closely to Judaism. Hellenistic Christians believed that the essence of Jesus's message could be presented in a way more suited for gentiles. Both groups contributed to the writing of the new testament. After about 450 years Chrisitan theology had mixed together the thoughts of both groups and had rationalized till they attained the illusion of enlightenment so often that a distinct new religion had formed. Anti-semitism helped in forming a new religion as well.

I don't think that, by the sound of his message, Jesus was keen on humans dividing the human race into opposing groups. His whole message was based on the idea of a religion for every single person. Ostracizing 'the Jews' directly opposes his message, it would seem.

By killing Him, the Jews drew their last straw with God and the corrupt Jewish religion was destroyed as evident by the the destruction of the temple.
Jesus did not resurrect as a Jew, but as a light to all the world.
Face it, he was a Jew. Never did he claim to be anything else.

By killing Him, the Jews drew their last straw with God and the corrupt Jewish religion was destroyed as evident by the the destruction of the temple.
Jesus did not resurrect as a Jew, but as a light to all the world.

Like Neo in The Matrix! :D

By killing Him, the Jews drew their last straw with God and the corrupt Jewish religion was destroyed as evident by the the destruction of the temple.
Jesus did not resurrect as a Jew, but as a light to all the world.
Hey there DF. Glad you're with us again. I was starting to miss my bi-weekly Grand Jewish-Catholic-Atheist-Communist Conspiracy thread. ;)

Like Neo in The Matrix! :D
To reiterate: LG is a demigod. Bow before him! :fluffle: :fluffle:

The Jews killed Him.

Really? I don't remember killing anyone...

(It's a good thing that Christians never kill Jews! They're above that. *cough cough* HITLER *cough cough...*)

The Jews are Christ-killers. Jesus Christ came unto them and and was crucified at their hands, and so began the fulfillment of God's promises, what has now become known as Christianity.

Really? I don't remember killing anyone...

(It's a good thing that Christians never kill Jews! They're above that. *cough cough* HITLER *cough cough...*)
Hitler? Not a Christian.

The Jews killed Him.
no, the romans did.

and there was only one jesus who was to be executed in the roman rule, a jesus of barbbas. you may find the name familiar as that is who the jewish crowd chose to free from execution.

Hitler? Not a Christian.
Have you read Mein Kampf?
He certainly said he believed in Christianity.

Hitler? Not a Christian.
oh, you're one of those "catholics aren't christians" people, aren't you?

By the way, my equation:

Judaism + Paganism = Christianity

The 10 commandments given to Moses said that we shouldn't make idols, but look at all the people in churches worshiping statues of saints. Oh, and the drinking of "blood" in Mass. Don't you see it?

(Ste Jeanne d'Arc is good, though! Je l'aime! ^^)

Contrary to popular Christian belief, most historical evidence suggests that it was the Romans that killed Jesus as the feared he would cause an uprising. The reason the gospels say the Jews were responsible is because they were written for a primarily non-Jewish audience, especially for the Romans. Would you choose to switch your religion to Christianity if you were blamed for its founder's death? I think not.

The Jews are Christ-killers. Jesus Christ came unto them and and was crucified at their hands, and so began the fulfillment of God's promises, what has now become known as Christianity.
no, if jesus was crucified, it was at roman hands. pilate was quite fond of executing people and i'm sure causing a scene in the temple, turning over tables and the like didn't really bring too much roman favour.

jesus was jewish, his mother was and judaism is matrilinial, is it not?

no, the romans did.

and there was only one jesus who was to be executed in the roman rule, a jesus of barbbas. you may find the name familiar as that is who the jewish crowd chose to free from execution.
No, the Blood of Christ is upon the Jews until the end of time.

By the way, my equation:

Judaism + Paganism = Christianity

The 10 commandments given to Moses said that we shouldn't make idols, but look at all the people in churches worshiping statues of saints. Oh, and the drinking of "blood" in Mass. Don't you see it?

(Ste Jeanne d'Arc is good, though! Je l'aime! ^^)
Christians don't worship idols... :rolleyes:

By the way, my equation:

Judaism + Paganism = Christianity

The 10 commandments given to Moses said that we shouldn't make idols, but look at all the people in churches worshiping statues of saints. Oh, and the drinking of "blood" in Mass. Don't you see it?

(Ste Jeanne d'Arc is good, though! Je l'aime! ^^)

People that think Christians worshop the saints are impossible. I hate you all. Grow ears.

Jesus was black.

Jesus still owes me 10 dollers.

No, the Blood of Christ is upon the Jews until the end of time.
Love your debate style.
Who needs evidence?
We'll just call people evil.

Jesus was black.

Jesus still owes me 10 dollers.
No, Jesus is Mexican. I haven't spoken to him about religion yet, so I'm not sure of that.
His English isn't too great, but he's wonderful in bed. He's got a great green thumb too, I hired him on as a gardener.

EDIT:
And why does everyone always pronounce his name wrong?
It's pronounced "hey-zoos".

Love your debate style.
Who needs evidence?
We'll just call people evil.
Elements of the Christian Faith and doctrines on the Crucifixion. The Bible and Christian doctrines teach that the Jews are responsible, the Romans washed their hands in innocence.

Christians don't worship idols... :rolleyes:
really? mary statues?

the saints?

hell, communion was stolen directly from zoroastrianim and the worship of mithras. the cross itself is a pagan symbol, as are fish, symbolizing yoni, fertility worship...

plus you've got the whole sun god parallel there.

the romans were said to have "washed their hands in innocence" so that the blame would be off of them and so that the upstart christian religion could take root throughout the roman empire. if they had written that the Romans killed Jesus, many argue that Christianity wouldn't exist today

No, Jesus is Mexican. I haven't spoken to him about religion yet, so I'm not sure of that.
His English isn't too great, but he's wonderful in bed. He's got a great green thumb too, I hired him on as a gardener.

EDIT:
And why does everyone always pronounce his name wrong?
It's pronounced "hey-zoos".
hey, i met him on the bus.

i don't know about his gardening abilities, he had his arm around a pretty girl though. i'm guessing celibacy is out the window there.

I think the true nature of Jesus is best described HERE (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=394327).

really? mary statues?

the saints?

hell, communion was stolen directly from zoroastrianim and the worship of mithras. the cross itself is a pagan symbol, as are fish, symbolizing yoni, fertility worship...

plus you've got the whole sun god parallel there.
Don't waste time with nonsense like that.

hey, i met him on the bus.

i don't know about his gardening abilities, he had his arm around a pretty girl though. i'm guessing celibacy is out the window there.
;)
Couldn't have been me, no way...

Elements of the Christian Faith and doctrines on the Crucifixion. The Bible and Christian doctrines teach that the Jews are responsible, the Romans washed their hands in innocence.
again, the only jesus who was to be executed by the romans was a jesus of barbbaras, whom was set free by the jewish mob. mark 15 verse 11.

it appears that the jesus of barabbas was split in two separate people for the purpose of the crucifixtion story, which is remarkably similar to the crufixion of mithras...

What I heard was that Jesus hung out with these hippie types "Essenes" who lived in caves, was vegetarian, and was into mushrooms. No, not portabella mushrooms. ;)

Don't waste time with nonsense like that.
What? with the fact that when you clasp your hands in prayer, you're imitating an ancient pagan gesture that was supposed to symbolize the labia?

again, the only jesus who was to be executed by the romans was a jesus of barbbaras, whom was set free by the jewish mob. mark 15 verse 11.

it appears that the jesus of barabbas was split in two separate people for the purpose of the crucifixtion story, which is remarkably similar to the crufixion of mithras...
No, Iesus Christus was crucified by the Jews, while they freed a wicked man in their own infidelity...

What? with the fact that when you clasp your hands in prayer, you're imitating an ancient pagan gesture that was supposed to symbolize the labia?
No, that does not.

Jesus was a sacrifice for the sins of humanity in order to bridge the gap between God and man. His death is not on the hands of the Jews, but of all mankind. Jesus' message (and sacrifice) was for Jews and and Gentiles.

Some people's religious fervor (however incorrectly deleterious it may be to themselves and others) cannot be countered by logic. I suggest that nobody try and let this poor man live his life believing something false.

Jesus was a sacrifice for the sins of humanity in order to bridge the gap between God and man. His death is not on the hands of the Jews, but of all mankind. Jesus' message (and sacrifice) was for Jews and and Gentiles.
Yes, but His Blood is upon all the Jews.

Yes, but His Blood is upon all the Jews.

And all the Gentiles.

really? mary statues?

the saints?

hell, communion was stolen directly from zoroastrianim and the worship of mithras. the cross itself is a pagan symbol, as are fish, symbolizing yoni, fertility worship...

plus you've got the whole sun god parallel there.

No Christian WORSHIPS the statue. The definition of worship that you see in the dictionary today is a recent evolution in the definition of the word. For a very long time it had a much broader meaning then it says in the dictionary. Early in the Christian church theologians began to differentiate between different types of honor in order to make it clear what was due to God and what wasn't. Terms used in Christian theology evolved and eventually the Greek word latria was used to refer to honor that is for God alone and the word dulia was used to refer to honor that is due to humans, especially those who were considered good enough Christians to be thought of as saints. The word hyperdulia was used to refer to the honor due to Mary, which is greater then dulia but lesser then latria.

Today the words adoration and veneration are used in their place. Adoration is reverence due to God alone and veneration is respect given to saints.

And that is the rest of the story.

Edit: screwed up my bb code.

Some people's religious fervor (however incorrectly deleterious it may be to themselves and others) cannot be countered by logic. I suggest that nobody try and let this poor man live his life believing something false.

Who are you to say what people should believe in, or for that matter, what is fact and what is fiction?

Jesus WAS Jewish, he was raised with Jewish traditions and beliefs. Remember when he was young (thirteen or something) and his mother couldn't find him, and when she did, he was amazing the religious leaders with his knowledge about the scriptures and all that good stuff. Even though he eventually started the Christian faith, he was Jewish. The Jews as a whole are not evil, it's just that every now and then you get someone who becomes drunk on power (the pharisees, in Jesus' case) who then becomes corrupt, and when someone challenges their authority, they often get violent. If the pharisees had not told Pilate that they wanted Jesus crucified, Jesus would not have been done away with. The Romans were worried about a rebellion, which probably would have occurred if they had not done anything, so they basically are responsibel, but it would not have happened were it not for the Jews. And that thing about becoming corrupt is not limited to Jews, it applies to everyone. Human's are innately evil (you can't really deny that).

In regards to race, Jesus must have looked middle eastern, his ancestors were from the middle east, and unless he was albino, he had darker skin, dark hair, and dark eyes. It only makes sense!

Servus Dei, you're a closeminded, possibly anti-semetic, and unbelievably ignorant!!!

And catholics AREN'T Christians, they do worship idols (statues of Mary), they have added a number of books to the Bible (when there is a direct warning in the last few sentences of the Bible), and they do a number of other non-christian things. Catholocism is a crisis in faith.

Jesus was not christian which is a follower of christ. He was jewish of course, and he was from nazareth. :headbang:

Anyone who died and "rose again" was never killed in the first place...

all of your blaming isnt really valid :shrug:

some of you have it right, and some of you have it retarded. Jesus of Nazereth was a Jew, both in religion and ethnicity. as for the whole wicca mithras thing, come on, seriously. and his name was barrabbas, not barbbaras (plural Barbara?). and the Jews didn't kill him, the Romans executed him in the traditional Roman stlye of the time. and when the Bible mentions "The Jews" in the crucifiction story, it is refering to the Sanhedrin, or Jewish high council, not the Jewish people as a whole. Mithras, really...

Hey, Servus Dei. Have you ever considered that the reason nobody believes you is because you're talking utter nonsense? I strongly recommend that you do consider it.

No, that does not.
seriously, do it. i own a pair of labia myself (well, two really) and hands clasped in prayer do kind of resemble them.

Jesus WAS Jewish, he was raised with Jewish traditions and beliefs. Remember when he was young (thirteen or something) and his mother couldn't find him, and when she did, he was amazing the religious leaders with his knowledge about the scriptures and all that good stuff. Even though he eventually started the Christian faith, he was Jewish. The Jews as a whole are not evil, it's just that every now and then you get someone who becomes drunk on power (the pharisees, in Jesus' case) who then becomes corrupt, and when someone challenges their authority, they often get violent. If the pharisees had not told Pilate that they wanted Jesus crucified, Jesus would not have been done away with. The Romans were worried about a rebellion, which probably would have occurred if they had not done anything, so they basically are responsibel, but it would not have happened were it not for the Jews. And that thing about becoming corrupt is not limited to Jews, it applies to everyone. Human's are innately evil (you can't really deny that).

In regards to race, Jesus must have looked middle eastern, his ancestors were from the middle east, and unless he was albino, he had darker skin, dark hair, and dark eyes. It only makes sense!

Servus Dei, you're a closeminded, possibly anti-semetic, and unbelievably ignorant!!!

And catholics AREN'T Christians, they do worship idols (statues of Mary), they have added a number of books to the Bible (when there is a direct warning in the last few sentences of the Bible), and they do a number of other non-christian things. Catholocism is a crisis in faith.


Your post is just dripping with ignorance and distortion.
The Jews did kill Christ and Christians do not worship idols!

And catholics AREN'T Christians, they do worship idols (statues of Mary), they have added a number of books to the Bible (when there is a direct warning in the last few sentences of the Bible), and they do a number of other non-christian things. Catholocism is a crisis in faith.

Catholics were the first Christians, without them there would have been no protestant reformation or anything of the like. Also, Mary is not worshiped as an idol, only venerated for her love and faith.

Mithras may have been i nice guy, but he was no Jesus. sure plenty of diestic figures have been ressurected over time, but thwas for self-fulfillment, not to benefit anyone else. Odin didn't hang himself to help out his buddies, he did it for the experience.

seriously, do it. i own a pair of labia myself (well, two really) and hands clasped in prayer do kind of resemble them.

So does a ham sandwich but I'm not going to read any symbolism into it.

Catholics were the first Christians, without them there would have been no protestant reformation or anything of the like. Also, Mary is not worshiped as an idol, only venerated for her love and faith.

venerated isn't a strong enough word. and yes, catholics are christians, just confused, very backward, bible ignoring ones. i mean, come on, without catholics no protestant reformation, but without catholics, no need for one, either.

What race was Jesus, and what religion was Jesus? Don't be too hasty now.
Jesus was a Galilean
Jesus was a Jew who spake the words of God and was God.

Catholocism is a crisis in faith.

And for you to denounce a religion that isn't your own as a "crisis in faith" is pretty unbelievably ignorant as well.

but without catholics, no need for one, either.

Of course there would have been no need, there would be no Christians that needed to reform because there would be no Christians.

venerated isn't a strong enough word. and yes, catholics are christians, just confused, very backward, bible ignoring ones. i mean, come on, without catholics no protestant reformation, but without catholics, no need for one, either.

You have some explaining to do. 'Bible ignoring'? How so?

And for you to denounce a religion that isn't your own as a "crisis in faith" is pretty unbelievably ignorant as well.

or perhaps it's a very well informed, and unbiased opinion.

And for you to denounce a religion that isn't your own as a "crisis in faith" is pretty unbelievably ignorant as well.

Specially when you can't spell it. Catholicism, not Catholocism.

You're an idiot, Servus Dei.

You said, "The Jews did kill Christ and Christians do not worship idols!"

Catholics are NOT Christians, I did not say Christians worship idols. Catholics do. Denying it is just plain stupid. As for the remark that my stuff is "dripping with ignorance," you're one to talk.

Contrary to popular Christian belief, most historical evidence suggests that it was the Romans that killed Jesus as the feared he would cause an uprising. The reason the gospels say the Jews were responsible is because they were written for a primarily non-Jewish audience, especially for the Romans. Would you choose to switch your religion to Christianity if you were blamed for its founder's death? I think not.

The Roman Pilate washed his hands of the murder of JESUS and let the Jewish population decide if HE should die. The Romans did not kill JESUS they only aided in his death, it was the majority of Jews (if not all Jews) that killed the LORD. The Scriptures were not written for a selective audience they were written for the world all races alike. JESUS had no race as he was God's son and His chosen people were the Jews not the jewish faith in it's self, but the people.

People that think Christians worshop the saints are impossible. I hate you all. Grow ears.

Ehhh, you're right. I said a little more than I should. Catholicism is actually pretty cool. Just not when people use it to justify hate for people.

And I still love Ste Jeanne d'Arc.

You're an idiot, Servus Dei.

You said, "The Jews did kill Christ and Christians do not worship idols!"

Catholics are NOT Christians, I did not say Christians worship idols. Catholics do. Denying it is just plain stupid. As for the remark that my stuff is "dripping with ignorance," you're one to talk.
As I said, Christians do NOT worship idols as you seem to insist on stating...

And catholics AREN'T Christians, they do worship idols (statues of Mary), they have added a number of books to the Bible (when there is a direct warning in the last few sentences of the Bible), and they do a number of other non-christian things. Catholocism is a crisis in faith.
The Catholics are as much Christians as St. Ambrose!
The Catholics do not worship Mary nor statues of her. They worship the One true God!
And as for the addition in the Bible those books were brought forward as Jewish documents that were parts of the Jewish bible at some time. There are books that have been lost..... Did you ever think of that.....and then found again!!!!!

You have some explaining to do. 'Bible ignoring'? How so?

when it comes to things like earning your way into heaven (and the catholics are big on that) the bible is very clear and says that you can't. its impossible. "I am the Way and the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by Me." only faith, and grace, and scripture. not works. there is also no purgatory in the bible. or praying to saints, or to mary. or goping to hell if you don't follow the seven sacrements and do services all in latin. i know they changed their policy on that one, but come on.

I don't really care how you spell "Catholicism."

when it comes to things like earning your way into heaven (and the catholics are big on that) the bible is very clear and says that you can't. its impossible. "I am the Way and the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by Me." only faith, and grace, and scripture. not works. there is also no purgatory in the bible. or praying to saints, or to mary. or goping to hell if you don't follow the seven sacrements and do services all in latin. i know they changed their policy on that one, but come on.
Changed what policy?

when it comes to things like earning your way into heaven (and the catholics are big on that) the bible is very clear and says that you can't. its impossible. "I am the Way and the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by Me." only faith, and grace, and scripture. not works. there is also no purgatory in the bible. or praying to saints, or to mary. or goping to hell if you don't follow the seven sacrements and do services all in latin. i know they changed their policy on that one, but come on.
And also Ephesians 2:8-9 says this: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

Of course there would have been no need, there would be no Christians that needed to reform because there would be no Christians.

there wasn't even a pope until like 550 a.d. there were christians long before theer was an organised catholic church.

there wasn't even a pope until like 550 a.d. there were christians long before theer was an organised catholic church.
There was a pope in A.D. XXXIII....

Catholics are still Christians even if they do have some wacky practices.
They still pray to God and are forgiven

Books may have been lost and found and whatever, but Catholics have added books to the Bible as late as 1500!!! That's pretty late, and if books that "were supposed to be in the Bible" were found a bit late, maybe they weren't supposed to be there.

And Dark Lord Chaos is right, Catholics are big on buying one's way into heaven. The Bible specifically addresses that, and says its WRONG! (see verse quoted above)

Your post is just dripping with ignorance and distortion.
The Jews did kill Christ and Christians do not worship idols!

Your comment is somewhat true, but misleading....

Yes, Jewish leaders did plot to find a "permanent solution" for the problem of Jesus. He was stealing their thunder and they wanted to be rid of him. But Roman soliders did the actual deed of pounding spikes into flesh (Jewish citizens wouldn't have been allowed to do such a thing). To say that the "Jews killed Christ" is leaving out some important facts in order to make a simplistic point.

Christians, it is true, do not "worship" idols. However, the elevation of certain dogmatic aspects of some denominations would lead some people to believe otherwise. As long as the symbols are kept only as symbols then there is nothing inherently wrong with that (looking to the Cross as a reminder of Jesus' sacrifice). It is when that symbol becomes the element of faith (believing that the Cross itself is responsible for your salvation) is when you have crossed in to idolatry.

First Pope: Saint Peter ?-92

There was a pope in A.D. XXXIII....

if you mean that whoever called themself bishop of rome was always automatically the pope, then yes. most evidence shows that peter never even went to rome. the center of the church on earth in the begininning was jerusalem, and Jesus half-brothers were in charge there, but the catholic church denies there existance for the most part, despite there obvious appearances in the new testament.

[QUOTE]"I am the Way and the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by Me."
No one comes to the Father except by Me, and 16 thousand different Christian religions.

Your comment is somewhat true, but misleading....

Yes, Jewish leaders did plot to find a "permanent solution" for the problem of Jesus. He was stealing their thunder and they wanted to be rid of him. But Roman soliders did the actual deed of pounding spikes into flesh (Jewish citizens wouldn't have been allowed to do such a thing). To say that the "Jews killed Christ" is leaving out some important facts in order to make a simplistic point.

Christians, it is true, do not "worship" idols. However, the elevation of certain dogmatic aspects of some denominations would lead some people to believe otherwise. As long as the symbols are kept only as symbols then there is nothing inherently wrong with that (looking to the Cross as a reminder of Jesus' sacrifice). It is when that symbol becomes the element of faith (believing that the Cross itself is responsible for your salvation) is when you have crossed in to idolatry.

^ See, not retarded.

Books may have been lost and found and whatever, but Catholics have added books to the Bible as late as 1500!!! That's pretty late, and if books that "were supposed to be in the Bible" were found a bit late, maybe they weren't supposed to be there.

And Dark Lord Chaos is right, Catholics are big on buying one's way into heaven. The Bible specifically addresses that, and says its WRONG! (see verse quoted above)
Do NOT talk to me about Works into Heaven!!!!
I Just did a Thesis Paper Arguing against the Catholic Church!

Culex, Catholics believe the priests can forgive people of their sins, but that's a right reserved only for God!!!

Your comment is somewhat true, but misleading....

Yes, Jewish leaders did plot to find a "permanent solution" for the problem of Jesus. He was stealing their thunder and they wanted to be rid of him. But Roman soliders did the actual deed of pounding spikes into flesh (Jewish citizens wouldn't have been allowed to do such a thing). To say that the "Jews killed Christ" is leaving out some important facts in order to make a simplistic point.

And the soldiers in Iraq are the ones doing the actual deeds in Iraq? Are they responsible for the war?

The Romans had washed their hands. They did it out of fear of the violent Jews.

Culex, Catholics believe the priests can forgive people of their sins, but that's a right reserved only for God!!!

preists, pastors, etc. are simply the usual means and vocalisation of that grace. its not wrong. its a reminder.

Culex, Catholics believe the priests can forgive people of their sins, but that's a right reserved only for God!!!
Only God forgives through His apostles...

Culex, Catholics believe the priests can forgive people of their sins, but that's a right reserved only for God!!!
:rolleyes: Priest Speak to God and ask to forgive the sins of those who needed to be forgiven.
It is just Like the Jews in Ancient times with the mass forgiving sacrifices!!
It is as if the people are asking god indirectly to forgive their sins!!!!

And the soldiers in Iraq are the ones doing the actual deeds in Iraq? Are they responsible for the war?

The Romans had washed their hands. They did it out of fear of the violent Jews.

violent jews who, if they started another rebellion, could have gotten pilate fired. but they were acting in a mob mentality lead by the Sanhedrin. these guys thought Jesus was horning in on their territory and they wanted him out. it wasn't the Jewish people, just a select few jackasses who were to busy with their own egos to see the christ they were wating for right in front of their eyes.

I am not a Catholic it is just that so many lies are going abroad about how wicked the Catholic Church is, but those accusers are just as bad!

No one comes to the Father except by Me, and 16 thousand different Christian religions.
There is only ONE Christian religion.

[QUOTE=The Dark Lord Chaos]
No one comes to the Father except by Me, and 16 thousand different Christian religions.

christain DENOMINATIONS, that only exist because we can't agree on teeny little bits of pointless doctrine that really don't matter in the overall message.

You're an idiot, Servus Dei.

You said, "The Jews did kill Christ and Christians do not worship idols!"

Catholics are NOT Christians, I did not say Christians worship idols. Catholics do.

I worship idols and am not a Christian? I really should start reading the fine print. :rolleyes:

Unquestionably, Jesus was english. His religion was C of E.

For those of you in doubt, I refer you to William Blake.

Christus, "Ego," inquit, "sum via, et veritas, et vita: nemo venit ad Patrem, nisi per me."

Catholics were the first Christians, without them there would have been no protestant reformation or anything of the like. Also, Mary is not worshiped as an idol, only venerated for her love and faith.

Catholics may have started as the first Christians but as the Roman Emporer Constantine became a political christian the catholics became important in their own eyes and began using their power incorrecty.
Mary is worshipped maybe not entierly as an Idol but in the same reverence as one. the Council of 431 declared Mary to be "the mother of God" so people started making images of her praying to her and holding festivals in her hounor this led to Catholics praying to other "Saints". Now many Catholic Churchs are filled with images, relics and pictures that are bowed and prayed to. And Catholics belive their "Pope" To be a mouthpiece to God, that he can speak to God.

EXAMPLE of the misled cathlocism: The Albigenes (unknow time period, most likley before the dark ages) were a true christian group in Lyons, France. Pope Innocent led a crusade against them for this reason. Allmost all information conserning the Albigenes had been destroyed by people of the catholic religion. People followed the Pope because he made the false promice of Heaven for any soldier that would fight in his "Holy War".

Servus Dei,

People like you are the reason that Christianity is losing its audience. Your unceasing grip on the English translations of the Scriptures has lead you to say foolish things. Maybe you should sit down with a copy of Dake's and get some context to the scriptures.

You are also anti-semitic. Congratulations. Y'know maybe I misread it when Christ said "Forgive them, Father - they know not what they do." Maybe it should really be "Father, purge these heathen scum for killing me, your chosen one! May racist white men continually hate the Jews, despite the fact that the verses show that it was only the Jews in political power who hated me! Lord, may ignorance always prevail among people of the Christian faith! And please, Lord, let them remember everything I have said...well...except for all those verses about loving and forgiveness. Beam me up, God!"

You are a heretic of the Christian faith who only hurts others through his hate-mongering (do you also believe that woman should still be "seen but not heard" in the church as well as society?). Now I still have to love you as Jesus commanded...I just don't like you. At all.

*hands you a Greek Bible*

Start reading. Maybe you can eventually undo the damage you've already done.

Okay, so what if it were the fault of the Jews?
Does it matter all that much who killed Christ?

Catholics are still Christians even if they do have some wacky practices.
They still pray to God and are forgiven

They do not pray to God they pray to the Saints.
And they are not forgiven they only confess to the Pope.

Servus Dei,

People like you are the reason that Christianity is losing its audience. Your unceasing grip on the English translations of the Scriptures has lead you to say foolish things. Maybe you should sit down with a copy of Dake's and get some context to the scriptures.

You are also anti-semitic. Congratulations. Y'know maybe I misread it when Christ said "Forgive them, Father - they know not what they do." Maybe it should really be "Father, purge these heathen scum for killing me, your chosen one! May racist white men continually hate the Jews, despite the fact that the verses show that it was only the Jews in political power who hated me! Lord, may ignorance always prevail among people of the Christian faith! And please, Lord, let them remember everything I have said...well...except for all those verses about loving and forgiveness. Beam me up, God!"

You are a heretic of the Christian faith who only hurts others through his hate-mongering (do you also believe that woman should still be "seen but not heard" in the church as well as society?). Now I still have to love you as Jesus commanded...I just don't like you. At all.

*hands you a Greek Bible*

Start reading. Maybe you can eventually undo the damage you've already done.

^See, more not retardedness. *applauds loudly*

Mary is worshipped maybe not entierly as an Idol but in the same reverence as one. the Council of 431 declared Mary to be "the mother of God" so people started making images of her praying to her and holding festivals in her hounor this led to Catholics praying to other "Saints".

Maybe you should read some Catholic theology and stop misrepresenting pious practices.

Now many Catholic Churchs are filled with images, relics and pictures that are bowed and prayed to.

I've never seen anyone do that in a Catholic Church. Now why would that be? Hmmmmm.

And Catholics belive their "Pope" To be a mouthpiece to God, that he can speak to God.

Again, you need to read Catholic doctrine, and not spout off about what you clearly do not know. And yes, the Pope can speak to God, as can everyone else.

EXAMPLE of the misled cathlocism: The Albigenes (unknow time period, most likley before the dark ages) were a true christian group in Lyons, France. Pope Innocent led a crusade against them for this reason. Allmost all information conserning the Albigenes had been destroyed by people of the catholic religion. People followed the Pope because he made the false promice of Heaven for any soldier that would fight in his "Holy War".

Quite possibly. The Church has made many mistakes. Constantine's endorsement of Christianity was both a boon and a bane. :(

et respondens universus populus dixit sanguis eius super nos et super filios nostros
(Gospel According to Saint Matthew xxviiXXV)

And the soldiers in Iraq are the ones doing the actual deeds in Iraq? Are they responsible for the war?


Again, a moot point. Jesus had to die, it is why he came to Earth. Does it matter who "killed" him? The important part is not who killed Jesus, but why he died.

They do not pray to God they pray to the Saints.
And they are not forgiven they only confess to the Pope.

I am no longer Catholic, but you have your facts wrong. Catholics do pray to
God and some pray to Saints. Catholics go to confession in front of a Priest and the Priest will give absolution. I think the world could do with a little less religious bigotry.

I am no longer Catholic, but you have your facts wrong. Catholics do pray to
God and some pray to Saints. Catholics go to confession in front of a Priest and the Priest will give absolution. I think the world could do with a little less religious bigotry.
*Aplaud*
Amen!

I am no longer Catholic, but you have your facts wrong. Catholics do pray to
God and some pray to Saints. Catholics go to confession in front of a Priest and the Priest will give absolution. I think the world could do with a little less religious bigotry.

As do I. Honest disagreement with another faith is fine, but telling lies and half-truths about that faith is not.

Sins must be confessed as taught through Scripture.

The Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox Churches discussed the issue of relics, paintings, and statues in churches. In the east at first it was banned to have those in churches, Iconoclasm, and in the West it was only promoted more to get the stories to the illiterate!!!! Later the East reverted back to having them and today have some of the most beautiful cathedrals in the world!!!

Any Abelardians?

A couple of notes.

Praying to saints - the phrasing of this gives the wrong impression. Essentially, we ask them to pray with us to the Father. Some people do pray to saints, but that goes against Catholic teaching.

Priest forgiving sins - see "in personae Christae" doctrine.

Pope as mouthpiece of God - see "ex cathedra" doctrine.

et respondens universus populus dixit sanguis eius super nos et super filios nostros
(Gospel According to Saint Matthew xxviiXXV)

I give up.

You think that a mob of Jews who were whipped into a frenzy by the Pharisees and Sanhedrin are representative of every Jew on the face of the Earth?
So all of these people are guilty as well?:
-Those in Jerusalem who were not involved in the demonstration;
-Those elsewhere in Judea who were unaware of Yeshua's arrest; and
-Those elsewhere in the Roman Empire who, in all probability, had never heard of Yeshua.

EVEN IF you say yes, Jesus has already forgiven them.

Luke 23:34: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do..."

Any problem that you have with the Jews is merely your own. Jesus does not share your sentiments, and in fact they are the opposite. Why are you not following Jesus' teachings? THESE ARE HIS, and any ignorance on your part is now a sin - you know what He said...you merely choose to replace it with human emotion, hate, and loathing of the Jews.

Show me how I am wrong.

And get that bottle of White-Out away from your Bible, please.

I give up.

You think that a mob of Jews who were whipped into a frenzy by the Pharisees and Sanhedrin are representative of every Jew on the face of the Earth?
So all of these people are guilty as well?:
-Those in Jerusalem who were not involved in the demonstration;
-Those elsewhere in Judea who were unaware of Yeshua's arrest; and
-Those elsewhere in the Roman Empire who, in all probability, had never heard of Yeshua.

EVEN IF you say yes, Jesus has already forgiven them.

Luke 23:34: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do..."

Any problem that you have with the Jews is merely your own. Jesus does not share your sentiments, and in fact they are the opposite. Why are you not following Jesus' teachings? THESE ARE HIS, and any ignorance on your part is now a sin - you know what He said...you merely choose to replace it with human emotion, hate, and loathing of the Jews.

Show me how I am wrong.


God will not force forgiveness onto the unrepentant...

et respondens universus populus dixit sanguis eius super nos et super filios nostros
(Gospel According to Saint Matthew xxviiXXV)
Our pet troll is back!
We missed you, DF.
:fluffle:

Anybody want to read a funny letter. My daughter is in Africa and she went a few long train and bus rides. She tells one story where she was trying to use the toilet on the train, very funny. The Post is Letter from Africa. I posted it last night CDT about 10 pm noone paid any attention to it. Oh well. Tough luck.

God will not force forgiveness onto the unrepentant...

Once again you fail to answer my questions about these people:

-Those in Jerusalem who were not involved in the demonstration;
-Those elsewhere in Judea who were unaware of Yeshua's arrest; and
-Those elsewhere in the Roman Empire who, in all probability, had never heard of Yeshua.

These people are Jews too! In fact, they are even higher in number and more representative of the Jewish population than your mob.

Unless you answer me concerning these people, I will ignore you - you merely refuse to answer this question because you are afraid of the truth.

Romans 3:28 is a key verse in the differences between traditional Protestants and Catholics. You will notice that Paul says a man is justified by faith (pistei in Greek). When Martin Luther translated the letter to the Romans into German in the sixteenth century, he added the word alone —but alone is not in the original Greek text. The phrase "faith alone" does occur in the New Testament: one time, in James 2:24. There the inspired apostle denies that justification is from faith alone. Let me quote it: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Anybody want to read a funny letter. My daughter is in Africa and she went a few long train and bus rides. She tells one story where she was trying to use the toilet on the train, very funny. The Post is Letter from Africa. I posted it last night CDT about 10 pm noone paid any attention to it. Oh well. Tough luck.

It's hard to get a lot of attention on this forum unless you're bashing Christianity or Bush.

Our pet troll is back!
We missed you, DF.
:fluffle:
This guy/gal is not DF, at least it doesn't seem like it. This person doesn't seem to believe Catholicism is the only true Christian faith or some of the other stuff Defensor Fidei said.

Although, I may be wrong.

vis autem scire o homo inanis quoniam fides sine operibus otiosa est
(Epistle Of Saint James iiXX)

Hebrew/Israelite by race, Jewish by faith.

Paul speaks about Christians fulfilling the law by following the command to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Gal. 5:14). He then explains that we must show the "fruit of the Spirit" (Gal 5:16–26) and bear one another’s burdens (Gal. 6:1ff) as a way of fulfilling the "law of Christ" (Gal. 6:2). All Paul’s teaching comes down to this: Our own works can never justify us, but works that grow out of faith in Christ are part of our justification. That’s why Paul says in Philippians 2:12 you must "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." And that squares with James’s teaching that works that grow from faith justify.

Romans 3:28
arbitramur enim iustificari hominem per fidem sine operibus legis

There is no 'alone'
Latin Vulgate

It's hard to get a lot of attention on this forum unless you're bashing Christianity or Bush.

I hope and pray to God that I have never bashed Christianity. I am a former Christian and I am non-political. I am not afraid to point out what I believe to be misconceptions and sometimes outright bigotry from anyone. So if I need to bash to get attention, I guess I am going to be one lonely guy.

This guy/gal is not DF, at least it doesn't seem like it. This person doesn't seem to believe Catholicism is the only true Christian faith or some of the other stuff Defensor Fidei said.

Although, I may be wrong.


Seems to have the same penchant for quoting in Latin, in really BIG font...
I've only seen SD's posts on this thread, and I immediately assumed it was DF.
God help us if there's two of them!

vis autem scire o homo inanis quoniam fides sine operibus otiosa est
(Epistle Of Saint James iiXX)
Abraham pater noster nonne ex operibus iustificatus est offerens Isaac filium suum super altare
vides quoniam fides cooperabatur operibus illius et ex operibus fides consummata est
et suppleta est scriptura dicens credidit Abraham Deo et reputatum est illi ad iustitiam et amicus Dei appellatus est
videtis quoniam ex operibus iustificatur homo et non ex fide tantum
similiter autem et Raab meretrix nonne ex operibus iustificata est suscipiens nuntios et alia via eiciens
sicut enim corpus sine spiritu emortuum est ita et fides sine operibus mortua est
to finish off the Chapter :p

Since Servus Dei is so found of ignorance, I will pay homage to him.

*adds Servus Dei to ignore list*

Beeeeee-utiful.

Parents, don't raise your kids to be ignorant. Yay.

I hope and pray to God that I have never bashed Christianity. I am a former Christian and I am non-political. I am not afraid to point out what I believe to be misconceptions and sometimes outright bigotry from anyone. So if I need to bash to get attention, I guess I am going to be one lonely guy.

Oh, you don't need to bash, per se. It just makes your odds 99% better. ;)

Seems to have the same penchant for quoting in Latin, in really BIG font...
I've only seen SD's posts on this thread, and I immediately assumed it was DF.
God help us if there's two of them!
Make it 3
Face id tres

:p :p

Make it 3
Face id tres
You're not an anti-semetic troll too, are you? :eek:

Hello?

You're not an anti-semetic troll too, are you? :eek:
not anti-semetic
but i do quote latin :p
well....I guess I could be considered anti semetic by some...I do believe that the Jews killed Jesus

Jesus was someone who hated the money lenders and threw them out of the temple. He did this because you are not supposed to charge your brother usury. This kind of love of money is the root of ALL evil in this world. In other words, Jesus was OUR saviour, every working-class schmuck trying to live a decent life, bring up decent kids while being preyed upon by the bankers and politicians who are themselves indebted to an organization of money lenders, the World Bank, some of who happen to be Jewish like Christ himself was. We need to throw all those bastards out of the temple before they completely own us. That's the message.

Jesus was someone who hated the money lenders and threw them out of the temple. He did this because you are not supposed to charge your brother usury. This kind of love of money is the root of ALL evil in this world. In other words, Jesus was OUR saviour, every working-class schmuck trying to live a decent life, bring up decent kids while being preyed upon by the bankers and politicians who are themselves indebted to an organization of money lenders, the World Bank, some of who happen to be Jewish like Christ himself was. We need to throw all those bastards out of the temple before they completely own us. That's the message.
I believe Jesus was either Socialist or communist! :D

Jewish usury has long been a serious problem for the Christian world.

Dicit qui testimonium perhibet istorum etiam venio cito amen veni Domine Iesu
gratia Domini nostri Iesu Christi cum omnibus
- Revelation xxiiXX-XXI

Jewish usury has long been a serious problem for the Christian world.

Donald Trump fired you too, eh?

So much so that so-called Christians killed a lot of Jews for the actions of a few. We all need to follow the tenets of our respective faiths and quit bashing others. "Let he who is without sin...."

not anti-semetic
but i do quote latin :p
well....I guess I could be considered anti semetic by some...I do believe that the Jews killed Jesus
Semper ubi sub ubi...

Someone had to kill him - not exactly a sacrifice if he died of old age...
Shouldn't his killers be honoured for helping?

So much so that so-called Christians killed a lot of Jews for the actions of a few. We all need to follow the tenets of our respective faiths and quit bashing others. "Let he who is without sin...."
I personnally do not understand why Christians are and have been so close-minded.
I am a Christian yet I try to be openminded :)
Let Peace rule with the Lord!

"All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor.
Then as now Jews have to be reminded intermittently anew that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live."
--Pope Clement VIII

So much so that so-called Christians killed a lot of Jews for the actions of a few. We all need to follow the tenets of our respective faiths and quit bashing others. "Let he who is without sin...."
Jews are not to be mass-murdered...

Or Palestinians, or anyone.

There is only ONE Christian religion.

That may be but how may people have died trying to prove which one. I'm but I think Jesus and God are very saddened by anyone who would raise a finger in violence over religion.

I hate to be the obvious one here, but if we want to ask who killed Jesus, then the answer is kinda self-evident. It was Jesus himself.

You've got to remember that Jesus Christ, (according to Christianity), was the Messiah. A half-man, half-God. He possessed infinite magic powers that could have stopped his Cruxifiction at any time he'd wanted.

He CHOSE to die, so in a way his act could be seen as one of suicide. (But a neccasary one).

That may be but how may people have died trying to prove which one. I'm but I think Jesus and God are very saddened by anyone who would raise a finger in violence over religion.
There is but ONE... God established ONE CHURCH, not a chaotic mess of religions.

I hate to be the obvious one here, but if we want to ask who killed Jesus, then the answer is kinda self-evident. It was Jesus himself.

You've got to remember that Jesus Christ, (according to Christianity), was the Messiah. A half-man, half-God. He possessed infinite magic powers that could have stopped his Cruxifiction at any time he'd wanted.

He CHOSE to die, so in a way his act could be seen as one of suicide. (But a neccasary one).

"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Don't think he was too happy about the situation...

There is but ONE... God established ONE CHURCH, not a chaotic mess of religions.


Finally the missionary got to Matthew 16:18: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church"

There is but ONE... God established ONE CHURCH, not a chaotic mess of religions.

Or, you could say that God established one religion and not a chaotic mess of churchs. Man created the Churchs in Mans image.


"If thou be of the inmates of this city within the ocean of divine unity, thou wilt view all the Prophets and Messengers of God as one soul and one body, as one light and one spirit, in such wise that the first among them would be last and the last would be first. For they have all arisen to proclaim His Cause and have established the laws of divine wisdom. They are, one and all, the Manifestations of His Self, the Repositories of His might, the Treasuries of His Revelation, the Dawning-Places of His splendour and the Daysprings of His light. Through them are manifested the signs of sanctity in the realities of all things and the tokens of oneness in the essences of all beings."

(Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 32)

Servus Dei,

People like you are the reason that Christianity is losing its audience. Your unceasing grip on the English translations of the Scriptures has lead you to say foolish things. Maybe you should sit down with a copy of Dake's and get some context to the scriptures.

You are also anti-semitic. Congratulations. Y'know maybe I misread it when Christ said "Forgive them, Father - they know not what they do." Maybe it should really be "Father, purge these heathen scum for killing me, your chosen one! May racist white men continually hate the Jews, despite the fact that the verses show that it was only the Jews in political power who hated me! Lord, may ignorance always prevail among people of the Christian faith! And please, Lord, let them remember everything I have said...well...except for all those verses about loving and forgiveness. Beam me up, God!"

You are a heretic of the Christian faith who only hurts others through his hate-mongering (do you also believe that woman should still be "seen but not heard" in the church as well as society?). Now I still have to love you as Jesus commanded...I just don't like you. At all.

*hands you a Greek Bible*

Start reading. Maybe you can eventually undo the damage you've already done.

I agree with BCG.

Servus, I'm a Protestant christian (I don't know or care what denomination), and I really don't appreciate you painting us all to be legalistic assholes. Besides telling us to love one another, saying "forgive them, they know not what they do." and doing 8 million other things that go way against what you're saying, he also showed that we shouldn't be legalistic. Remember the story when he broke the rules and healed someone on the sabbath? The law isn't important, it's the principle behind the law. Besides besides, why do you care if the Jews are to blame, if Christians worship idols, any of this- If you're such a devout christian, why aren't you out feeding homeless people and fighting the rampant injustice in the world (one could argue the same thing for me, but still...)

Jewish usury has long been a serious problem for the Christian world.

Also, the 'Christian' [western] world RUNS on the decendent of Jewish Usury. For those of you who don't know, Usury is the practice of charging interest on a loan- in the middle ages christianity forbid it, but the Jews could still do it and made a fortune off it. Just look at today's economy- investment banking, house loans, the federal reserve system, it all runs on USURY!!!! How can you say it's a problem for the Christian world- intrest rates and the like are practically its foundation!

Servus, you're probably trying to do the right thing and be a valiant warrior for Christ or something, but dude, it's not working. Besides responding with no more than 2 lines and a complete lack of logic, maybe you should try actually knowing what you're talking about, and more importantly, UNDERSTANDING YOUR OWN RELIGION. Jesus gave two great commandments- one- "I am the son of God", you pretty much get down as soon as you accept him. The other- "Love your neighbor as yourself" I think we ALL could work on. Keep that in mind, get off your computer, and go do what Jesus would do and love some neigbors. If you're not sure what to do, I hear a big wave hit in India someplace, maybe you can help those guys out somehow...

The Christian world DOES NOT run on usury. That is the Jewish world!

You are the one lacking in relevant information...

The Christian world DOES NOT run on usury. That is the Jewish world!


I hope you've told your bank that you don't want to receive any interest on your savings...

I hope you've told your bank that you don't want to receive any interest on your savings...
The banks are under the control of the Jews. Usury occurs when the Jews use this to charge Christians exorbitant interest rates on loans, showing your lack of understanding...

The banks are under the control of the Jews.

Mine's under the control of the Aussies.

So you keep all your money under your mattress? What about your church's money? Are they collecting interst on their savings?

We earn interest on savings, because the bank loans our money to other people and pays us out of the interest from that loan.

So unless you've told your bank that you don't want any interest from any savings you happen to have with them, you're benefitting from their usury, and you get the award for Most Promising Hypocrite.

The Christian world DOES NOT run on usury. That is the Jewish world!

You are the one lacking in relevant information...

how's this:[whips out american history book]

Woodrow Wilson- the president who established the system of Government-Controlled intrest rates- was the son and grandson of Presbyterian ministers. Again- more than 2 lines usually works better, especially when you explain what you're saying, instead of just blabbing out random stupid arguements. It's like in english class; when you write a paragraph, your topic sentence has your arguement, then the other sentences back it up with valid evidence.


to other people- from previous posts it seems like this is a guy who was a troublemaker before, got banned, then came back with a new name. I'm new so I wouldn't know, is that true?

"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Don't think he was too happy about the situation...

Because he was as powerless as any other human being, being a mortal from mortal parents and all.

You are the one lacking in relevant information...

Says the person who apparently claims that there was ever in history "One church".

Can't we all just accept the truth and move on?

Jesus was a half-japanese half-samoan jewish christian from outer space.

There. Now can we move on to more interesting religios questions?

For instance, How did Mary convince Joseph that she was pregnant with the son of God? He must've been a very trusting individual.

He wanted to save face.

Frankly the story of her waking up near a well sounds like someone slipped her something and raped her.

He wanted to save face.

Frankly the story of her waking up near a well sounds like someone slipped her something and raped her.

:eek: God used roofies?!? :eek:

Jesus was of Jewish ethnicity... as for religion, he was the son of God.. and taught Christian views obviously...

as for the question of Mary convincing Joseph... she didn't... the the angel Gabriel did... and I think if you saw an angel comin and talkin to you, you'd believe it too.

Says the person who apparently claims that there was ever in history "One church".
And there is indeed, only ONE CHURCH of Jesus Christ.

And there is indeed, only ONE CHURCH of Jesus Christ.

It's that one in Upstate New York, isn't it? I've been there. It was nice. Great architecture. Nice and warm. Most churches are a little chilly.

What race was Jesus, and what religion was Jesus? Don't be too hasty now.
Remember its not about who Jesus was but on who the Jews were not Follower's of Jesus namely

Can't we all just accept the truth and move on?

Jesus was a half-japanese half-samoan jewish christian from outer space.

There. Now can we move on to more interesting religios questions?

For instance, How did Mary convince Joseph that she was pregnant with the son of God? He must've been a very trusting individual.
Well seeing as it would have been out of Wedlock? i dont think he wanted his Balls smashed between 2 rocks?

And there is indeed, only ONE CHURCH of Jesus Christ.

Considering that since the death of Christ and the apostles setting out, there has never been *one united church*, how the hell would you even know which one was the "ONE CHURCH"?

Well seeing as it would have been out of Wedlock? i dont think he wanted his Balls smashed between 2 rocks?

I don't blame him. It's pretty awful. :(

I don't blame him. It's pretty awful. :(
I guess thats why youd want the 3 instead of the Kidneys :p

I guess thats why youd want the 3 instead of the Kidneys :p

With my lifestyle, I'd feel safer knowing I had a spare.

Jesus is recognized as a Jew. He established the new covenant between God and all people. Jesus was not Christian. Christians are called Christians because
they believe Jesus is the Christ foretold of in the Jewish scriptures.

Catholics were the first Christians, without them there would have been no protestant reformation or anything of the like. Also, Mary is not worshiped as an idol, only venerated for her love and faith.
You seriously think Catholics were the first christians? the ignorance of some people. I mean reallly... You really think that romans (catholics) were the first followers of Jesus? you think that the catholic church was formed right after jesus' death? put a little thought into what you say. everybody. Give proof or evidence of what you speak, and no the bible is not a good reference when half the people here don't believe in it. I'm not going to express my beliefs here because they are irrelevent when there are nothing but ignorant and arrogant christians, jews, catholics (which technically are christians, just a different kind like there are different kinds of protestant sects), and atheist. And if you must know, i myself am a Philisophical Theist. look it up...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_theism

Jesus is recognized as a Jew. He established the new covenant between God and all people. Jesus was not Christian. Christians are called Christians because
they believe Jesus is the Christ foretold of in the Jewish scriptures.

I think that we are splitting hairs here. Christians are followers of Jesus Christ--Christians. Jesus was the impetus behind the start of this new religion. Jesus being a Messenger of God transended religious labels. People belong to religions...Messengers of God bring spiritual truth to humanity. People follow...Messengers lead.

Catholics were the first Christians, without them there would have been no protestant reformation or anything of the like.

haha, sorry. catholics were the first christians eh? Acts 11:26 "The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch." This was around 47 A.D. Even after Jesus death, Paul and the other disciples still followed jewish traditions. the first christians were jews.

The Romans had washed their hands. They did it out of fear of the violent Jews.

Uh huh. The occupied, unarmed, disorganized Jews (who could be -and were- killed with virutal impunity) had the entire Roman occupation force trembling in their sandals, I bet.

God will not force forgiveness onto the unrepentant...

Sign me up for that unrepentant list- seeing as how I'm unconvinced that:

A- The guy known as Jesus actually existed or acted the way he's been represented in the NT.

B- That the Jewish leaders of his day had any practical impact on his fate (Pilate was in charge of THEM, not vice-versa, and the thought that he would have followed their orders regarding anything is rather absurd).

C- That decisions made by one small group of people (how big could a mob in a courtyard possibly be? Several hundred people, at the very most?) condemns either the entire ethnic group at the time, OR for all time. In fact, this last idea is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever heard.

In sum, I am totally unrepentant because I feel I have nothing to repent for, not having done anything wrong.

Good day.

Jewish usury has long been a serious problem for the Christian world.

Perhaps Christian leaders shouldn't have forced Jews into the practice by denying them the right to own and work land or engage in other "Christian" occupations. They have only themselves to blame.

The Jews killed Him.

Point of order: the ROMANS killed him. Read the Bible. :-p

Jesus established the Christian Faith and was not a Jew.
He was born into the Jewish faith.

By the way, my equation:

Judaism + Paganism = Christianity

The 10 commandments given to Moses said that we shouldn't make idols, but look at all the people in churches worshiping statues of saints. Oh, and the drinking of "blood" in Mass. Don't you see it?

(Ste Jeanne d'Arc is good, though! Je l'aime! ^^)

Protestants do not worship saints, nor do they have statues.. Protestants are Christians.

And catholics AREN'T Christians, they do worship idols (statues of Mary), they have added a number of books to the Bible (when there is a direct warning in the last few sentences of the Bible), and they do a number of other non-christian things. Catholocism is a crisis in faith.

That may be your opinion, but my opinion is that I am a Christian.

Clarification: Catholics do not worship idols. The saints' lives are something to emulate, and they are thought of as aids to prayer -- nothing more. Mary was the mother of Jesus and therefore worthy of respect, but she is NOT in herself deified and worshipped.

Servus Dei, just spewing standard Christian beliefs onto a forum to win an argument seems pointless. What proof do you have that what you're saying is true. Wait, don't tell me, because the Bible told you so?

The Roman Pilate washed his hands of the murder of JESUS and let the Jewish population decide if HE should die. The Romans did not kill JESUS they only aided in his death, it was the majority of Jews (if not all Jews) that killed the LORD. The Scriptures were not written for a selective audience they were written for the world all races alike. JESUS had no race as he was God's son and His chosen people were the Jews not the jewish faith in it's self, but the people.
That's funny: I've been taught we're ALL responsible, because NO ONE SPOKE UP FOR HIM.

Peter DENIED Him, and Judas BETRAYED HIM. And these were his closest associates and followers.

Catholics are big on buying one's way into heaven. The Bible specifically addresses that, and says its WRONG! (see verse quoted above)


Where DO you get your information???

'Buying your way into Heaven'? No. We are saved by God's grace, but hey, doing good works too IS what being a Christian means... loving your fellow man and all that. It's not buying your way into heaven, it's emulating the teachings we're given. It's not necessary, but if you don't help your fellow man how can you call yourself a true follower of Christ?

Clarification: Catholics do not worship idols. The saints' lives are something to emulate, and they are thought of as aids to prayer -- nothing more. Mary was the mother of Jesus and therefore worthy of respect, but she is NOT in herself deified and worshipped.

Yeesh, thank you!! I'm not particularly Catholic anymore but jeez louise people have some crazy misconceptions about Catholicism. I don't think I've ever met a Catholic who worshipped a statue, and I've met quite a few. Catholics worship God and believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God - this makes them Christian. (Christian = follower of Christ and his teachings, namely the Bible. The Bible is read at each and every mass.) Catholics pray with saints, as Katganistan says, in the sense of "they're good people who can help show me how to live a good life and put in a good word for me with The Big Guy." Ditto Mary - the statues and things of her are 'venerated' as representations of a holy person, but not worshipped or seen to have special powers or anything in their own right.

Frankly, the weirdest thing about Catholicism is transubstantiation, which does border on the macabre.

The first Christians were both Jews and Gentiles who decided that "hey, this Jesus dude seems to have some cool ideas, I think maybe he's God! Let's follow him around and tell people about loving our neighbour and sharing and junk." This following eventually developed into an organised religion which became known as the Catholic (translation: universal) Church. So the first Christians weren't Catholic per se, but Catholicism was the first officially organised denomination of Christianity.

And Jesus was a Jewish Arab descended from the tribes of Abraham and so forth, and was renowned in his time for his knowledge and interpretation of Judaic law - in fact, the apostles looked on him effectively as an unconventional rabbi (which I suppose is more or less what he was, actually!)

Edit: Oh and as for 'buying your way into heaven' I presume you mean indulgences - that doesn't happen anymore, that I'm aware of. There are meant to be prayers you can say that will decrease your time in purgatory or something (I have no idea why, that always seemed bizarre to me when I was Catholic) but there's certainly no money involved. The counter-reformation was very clear on that point, I believe.

Where DO you get your information???

'Buying your way into Heaven'? No. We are saved by God's grace, but hey, doing good works too IS what being a Christian means... loving your fellow man and all that. It's not buying your way into heaven, it's emulating the teachings we're given. It's not necessary, but if you don't help your fellow man how can you call yourself a true follower of Christ?
People vary so far off the “true” line in one way or another how can anyone be a “true” Christian? (if by true you mean the simplified love thy neighbor version) not to mention vague outlines on what the requirements are of a “true” Christian in the first place.

Do mythological beings have a race?

Maybe you should read some Catholic theology and stop misrepresenting pious practices. Pious, is that what you call it, the worship of wood,metal and ivory figures. Study the Bible and see if God ever allowed us to worship Idols, ex:moses brother aaron and the entire book of exedus.



I've never seen anyone do that in a Catholic Church. Now why would that be? Hmmmmm.



Again, you need to read Catholic doctrine, and not spout off about what you clearly do not know. And yes, the Pope can speak to God, as can everyone
else. I clearly do know! you have no idea who i am or you wouldn't make foolish accusations

Catholic Theology and Doctrine has been changed over years to represent the Catholics in a good light it is very unreliable.


Quite possibly. Not possibly the information I posted is quite true from the only records the Catholics didn't destroy. The Church has made many mistakes. Constantine's endorsement of Christianity was both a boon and a bane. :( :mad:

What race was Jesus, and what religion was Jesus? Don't be too hasty now.

Race has no scientific merit as a concept.
Jesus was a Jew (as far as his religion goes).
He was a Judean (that's where he grew up).

Race has no scientific merit as a concept.
Jesus was a Jew (as far as his religion goes).
He was a Judean (that's where he grew up).
but it is a linguistic concept and a social one

but it is a linguistic concept and a social one
To the Romans, he was probably a Judean.

Considering that since the death of Christ and the apostles setting out, there has never been *one united church*, how the hell would you even know which one was the "ONE CHURCH"?
The one established by Christ Himself in A.D. XXXIII...

The one established by Christ Himself in A.D. XXXIII...

Guess what? There was no church established by Christ himself. Meanwhile, Christ told all the apostles to go out and spread the word, and that's what they did. Meanwhile, there is no single church that goes by the exact beliefs/rules/etc. set out in any of the churches set up by *any* of the apostles. There has never been a time in all of history where anything was believed in every church, although the Catholic leadership would have you believe otherwise, since they base their dogma on that assumption.

et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum et quodcumque ligaveris super terram erit ligatum in caelis et quodcumque solveris super terram erit solutum in caelis
(Gospel According to Saint Matthew xviXVIII)

et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum et quodcumque ligaveris super terram erit ligatum in caelis et quodcumque solveris super terram erit solutum in caelis
(Gospel According to Saint Matthew xviXVIII)
DF? I have some bad new for you...you may need to get some Kleenex ready or something.

*ahem*
SPEAKING IN LARGE LATIN TEXT DOES NOT MAKE YOU SMARTER, NOR DOES IT ADD ANY VALIDITY TO YOUR ARGUMENT
There. I said it.

Another question for Christians just because I'd like to know the answer. This particularly goes out to those whose parents where christian and were brought up that way.

Say you'd been born in another country like Iran or India, do you think you would now be a devout muslim or hindu instead of christian?

Another question for Christians just because I'd like to know the answer. This particularly goes out to those whose parents where christian and were brought up that way.

Say you'd been born in another country like Iran or India, do you think you would now be a devout muslim or hindu instead of christian?

Come on, someone answer this! I'll give you a cookie!

Another question for Christians just because I'd like to know the answer. This particularly goes out to those whose parents where christian and were brought up that way.

Say you'd been born in another country like Iran or India, do you think you would now be a devout muslim or hindu instead of christian?

I don't know what I'd be if I had been brought up in an atmosphere where I was not allowed to question and study religion on my own. As it is, I think both Islam and Hinduism contain quite a bit of truth, some of which has been incorporated into my own beliefs. I will continue to study them, as well as other religions in addition to Christianity.

I hate to be the obvious one here, but if we want to ask who killed Jesus, then the answer is kinda self-evident. It was Jesus himself.

You've got to remember that Jesus Christ, (according to Christianity), was the Messiah. A half-man, half-God. He possessed infinite magic powers that could have stopped his Cruxifiction at any time he'd wanted.

He CHOSE to die, so in a way his act could be seen as one of suicide. (But a neccasary one).

Do you have a Brain? Use it.

When Jesus was born it signified that he was completly MAN!!
Jesus had no special powers (especialy not magic as the bible clearly states to kill any witches.) he could have stopped his crucifiction only by asking GOD to send legions of Angels. Read the Bible again!!!

He did not choose to die it was nessesary to ensure our salvation.
Again it was NOT suiside but a CRUCIFICTION.

DF? I have some bad new for you...you may need to get some Kleenex ready or something.

*ahem*
SPEAKING IN LARGE LATIN TEXT DOES NOT MAKE YOU SMARTER, NOR DOES IT ADD ANY VALIDITY TO YOUR ARGUMENT
There. I said it.
The Bible and sacred words are worthy of greater honour...

That's funny: I've been taught we're ALL responsible, because NO ONE SPOKE UP FOR HIM.

Peter DENIED Him, and Judas BETRAYED HIM. And these were his closest associates and followers.

Peter denied him out of Faith. An judas needs a life. Judas was NOT his closest.

The Catholic Church teaches that all the Jews are responsible for the murder of Christ.

The Bible and sacred words are worthy of greater honour...

Wow you speak Aramaic?

Catholics were close to Rome then and they didn't want to make it look bad.
The Jews are indeed all guilty of deicide.

Wow... how has this lasted 15 pages? Jesus grew up in the current Middle-East. And assuming they haven't changed 2000+ years, that means that Jesus was Arabic. Also, he was Jewish (which some of the smarter people have already said). Question Answered. You can all stop being annoying now.

The Catholic Church teaches that all the Jews are responsible for the murder of Christ.

Wow, not even the Catholic Church teaches that. Maybe you are thinking of something else?

Wow, not even the Catholic Church teaches that. Maybe you are thinking of something else?
You must be kidding now. Maybe I should start a thread on this matter...

Wow, not even the Catholic Church teaches that. Maybe you are thinking of something else?

PLEASE!

Don't get him going on the anti-pope Novos ordo stuff again!

Pretty please! ;)

Hi Again

hey, I'm newish, so I don't know what's up, but if this DF/Servus guy just keeps persisting like this, I'll start thinking he's doing it just to bug us. Servus, any truth to this? Are you just trying to annoy us, or are you really this zealous, arrogant, and bad at arguing?

hey, I'm newish, so I don't know what's up, but if this DF/Servus guy just keeps persisting like this, I'll start thinking he's doing it just to bug us. Servus, any truth to this? Are you just trying to annoy us, or are you really this zealous, arrogant, and bad at arguing?
I am defending the doctrines of Christianity.

I am defending the doctrines of Christianity.

...and anti-semitism.

The Bible and sacred words are worthy of greater honour...
Yes well the New Testament was originally written in Greek, and not latin...
The modern Catholic church is not the one Church, nor the first church. But there was once one church, for about 400 or 500 years. the Katholikin Apostolikin Ecclesia, The "Catholic" and Apostolic Church. Catholic is a Greek word meaning all encompasing, and the apostolic signifies it was begun by the apostles themselves. Anyway, it was basically the one religion Christians followed. The Catholic Church took the name Katholikin with them when they split from the Eastern Orthodoxies. Modern Catholicism has changed DRASTICALLY from the old unified church. The Eastern Orthodox churches have changed very little. There are very few differences between the Antiochian, Coptic, Armenian, and churches, they all seem to worship together and not even notice. Aside from Protestantism, Catholicism is the furthest from the traditions of the old church, priests used to be able to marry and have kids, unless you wanted to become a bishop, then you had to be single. I personally think that adding a fourth finger while making the sign of the cross is an affront to God. Catholics use four fingers while making the sign instead of the typical three used to signify the holy trilogy. I've been told this fourth finger was to venerate the pope... no human, save for Jesus himself, can be added to the holy trilogy without it technically being blasphemy, the pope is appointed by other priests and treated like God on earth... Anyway, off the Catholicism rant, the Eastern churches also do not use statues, only icons for veneration, to aid in prayer, and they have emotionless faces. Saints are merely people to look up to. You're supposed to look at a saint as a great Christian, something every Christian should aspire to become, that's why they're venerated.

It may seem like I hate Catholic, but I don't, I just don't like the dictatorial government of the Catholic Church, there are still plenty of good Christian Catholics out there.

I don't think Jesus had, nor left ancestors... He was the Son of God, and Mary was merely his vessel to Earth, She was a great woman for being who She was, but I don't think Jesus really picked any of her genetic traits up. This is why she's venerated as a more spiritually connected type of saint, an Yper Douli tou Theou, a Great servant of God. Jesus was a rebellious Jew, he coudn't really be Christian since he can't really follow himself, and besides, he hadn't been crucified yet either. After his death however, I don't consider the disciples as Jews, they were converted Christian Israelites. They may still have followed Jewish custom, but you can't call them Jews, for they had found their Messiah, and the rest of them did not ackonowledge the Messiah for who He was.

What race was Jesus, and what religion was Jesus? Don't be too hasty now.
Species: Homo Sapien Sapien/Whatever species God would be considered Race: Who knows? Probably whatever the jews there now are called.

Religion: Jewish... Kinda. He did preach a lot of things that were radicly different than the norm. He was more of a reformist than anything else.

Seeing as how the original Greek manuscripts do not exist, the inerrant translation of the Latin Vulgate is the most reliable text to make use of.


The eastern "orthodox" group of schismatics is a loose conglomeration of perverse institutions that deny numerous Christian doctrines. They are essentially protestant in their organization.

Servus Dei, I have some problems with you.

1. Your name. "Slave of God?" I didn't know God had slaves.

2. You claim that the Catholics do NOT worship idols. This is true. Have a cookie.

3. The jews are not responsible for Christ's death. As I recall the Jewish leaders saw Jesus as a threat to their authority, and the Roman leaders saw him as a rabble-rouser. The two groups teamed up and nailed the poor guy to a cross. Regardless of who is responsible, it didn't work, now did it?

4. I find it ironic that you would chastise a people for causing an event that resulted in the forgiveness of all sins and the salvation of all man-kind. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

5. Jesus teached compassion and forgiveness. If you truly are a follower of him you would forgive the Jews for their supposed crimes. "...as we will forgive those who trespass against us."

6. Even if the Jews killed Christ, why should the crimes of people 2000 years ago carry over to the Jews of today. Ask any Jew on the street if they would crucify Jesus if they had a chance.

7. You really shouldn't be showing so much hate to the faith that spawned your own.

Servus Dei, I have some problems with you.

1. Your name. "Slave of God?" I didn't know God had slaves.
He does.

3. The jews are not responsible for Christ's death. As I recall the Jewish leaders saw Jesus as a threat to their authority, and the Roman leaders saw him as a rabble-rouser. The two groups teamed up and nailed the poor guy to a cross. Regardless of who is responsible, it didn't work, now did it?
The Blood of Christ is upon the Jews. This has always been taught by the Holy Church.

7. You really shouldn't be showing so much hate to the faith that spawned your own.
Talmudism did not spawn the Divinely revealed Christian Faith.

Servus Dei, "Religion is the opium of the masses." Obviously, not good when overdoesed on - which you are

What race was Jesus, and what religion was Jesus? Don't be too hasty now.
Yes, lemme draw up a handy qoute, "God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever may believe in him shall have eternal life."

There is ONE TRUE RELIGION, those who fail to believe are damned.

Yes, lemme draw up a handy qoute, "God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever may believe in him shall have eternal life."

Misinterpreted your idea behind the question, I thought you were going to try and exclude non-jews from salvation because God sent jesus to save the jews specifically.

There is ONE TRUE RELIGION, those who fail to believe are damned.
Looks like you're damned then :sniper:

well if there is only one, whihc one is it then?

well if there is only one, whihc one is it then?
The Christian one.

The Christian one.
Your ignorance is amusing

Your ignorance is amusing
That is yours.

The Blood of Christ is upon the Jews. This has always been taught by the Holy Church.



ok first, god doesnt have any slaves, no man is ever imposed under his will. we are only asked to make the right choices, never forced to. If we didnt have this vital ability to choose our exsistence here would be pointless. it would be like taking a test that has already been filled out for you. our complete control over our lives is a gift, and its the entire reason why we're here. we came to prove that we could stand up to temptation and live a good enough life to return to heaven.
ok then, second. Christs blood is upon nobody. the whole reason his blood was spilled is so that NO ONE would have to carry another's blood. Christ atoned for all of the sins of the world, thats means he wiped his own blood from the jews. and even still, why should the children have to pay for their father's sins? there is no reason why we should have to carry the burden of anothers sins, which is why i personally am strongly against the idea of original sin, i personally believe that its ridiculous.
third, the catholic church was never founded by the apostles. The catholic shurch was founded by Constantine the roman emperor.

Your ignorance is amusing

amen to that, there are over 3500 "christian" churchs in the world. that doesnt sound like one to me.

Obviously, if he believes something, then something the totally opposite to that is wrong to him. It's not ignorance, it's common sense in his mind. He isn't ignorant, although damning everyone to hell wasn't very nice...

I believe that there is a God, and that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead. I could be wrong. But it's my belief that I'm not.

Also, I'll stress this again. It doesn't matter what race or ethnicity Jesus was. What matters most is what he taught.

Just for fun...

"The key to every man is his thought. Sturdy and defying though he look, he has a helm which he obeys, which is the idea after which all his facts are classified. He can only be reformed by showing him a new idea which commands his own."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson

Main Entry: meme
Pronunciation: 'mEm
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of mimeme, from mim- (as in mimesis) + -eme
: an idea, behavior, style, or usage that spreads from person to person within a culture

Main Entry: dog•ma
Pronunciation: 'dog-m&, 'däg-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural dogmas also dog•ma•ta /-m&-t&/
Etymology: Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem -- more at DECENT
1 a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

Concept: Telephone Game
In a game of "Telephone" one child whispers a message to the child sitting next to her, who in turn whispers the message to the child sitting next to him, who in turn whispers the message to yet a fourth child, and so on until the message has been whispered to the last child in the queue. By the time the message reaches its destination, the final child, it has generally undergone significant change.

amen to that, there are over 3500 "christian" churchs in the world. that doesnt sound like one to me.
No, there is only one Church of Iesus Christ.

No, there is only one Church of Iesus Christ.

The only thing that matters to me as that people share the same love for God, and accept that Jesus died for their sins. All this denominational crap doesn't matter.

Yes well the New Testament was originally written in Greek, and not latin...
The modern Catholic church is not the one Church, nor the first church. But there was once one church, for about 400 or 500 years. the Katholikin Apostolikin Ecclesia, The "Catholic" and Apostolic Church.

Actually, there was never "one" Church with a single dogma. Even before the East-West split, there were countless movements outside the "Catholic" church. Even within the church, there were disagreements and movements. Hell, there were at least a hundred years spent just arguing over the term "homousius".

the pope is appointed by other priests and treated like God on earth...

And there was no "pope" for the 400-500 years you spoke of. The bishop of the Roman church was not seen as being any higher than the bishops of Antioch, Alexandria, or any other major center. In fact, there are writings from those that the Catholic Church now likes to call "popes" specifically stating that they are *not* to be called pope.

Jesus was a rebellious Jew,

In truth, Jesus' teachings were incredibly close to the Essenes, a Jewish sect of the time, so I wouldn't really call him "rebellious." And all of the earliest members of the church considered themselves Jews who just had found the Messiah.

After his death however, I don't consider the disciples as Jews, they were converted Christian Israelites. They may still have followed Jewish custom, but you can't call them Jews, for they had found their Messiah, and the rest of them did not ackonowledge the Messiah for who He was.

That's funny, considering how much early Christian writing was dedicated to demonstrating how they *were* still Jews.

ok first, god doesnt have any slaves, no man is ever imposed under his will. we are only asked to make the right choices, never forced to. If we didnt have this vital ability to choose our exsistence here would be pointless. it would be like taking a test that has already been filled out for you. our complete control over our lives is a gift, and its the entire reason why we're here. we came to prove that we could stand up to temptation and live a good enough life to return to heaven.
ok then, second. Christs blood is upon nobody. the whole reason his blood was spilled is so that NO ONE would have to carry another's blood. Christ atoned for all of the sins of the world, thats means he wiped his own blood from the jews. and even still, why should the children have to pay for their father's sins? there is no reason why we should have to carry the burden of anothers sins, which is why i personally am strongly against the idea of original sin, i personally believe that its ridiculous.
third, the catholic church was never founded by the apostles. The catholic shurch was founded by Constantine the roman emperor.

Ah, good, a fellow disbeliever in all things Augustinian.

The only thing that matters to me as that people share the same love for God, and accept that Jesus died for their sins. All this denominational crap doesn't matter.
Division into sects is not a Christian element.

Division into sects is not a Christian element.

Would that be the reason that it has been around since the very beginning of Christianity?

It hasn't...

It hasn't...

History may not be your strong point, but perhaps you should try looking into it.

History may not be your strong point, but perhaps you should try looking into it.
There has only been one Church of Christ since He was man upon earth. You have no basis for your comments.

Pious, is that what you call it, the worship of wood,metal and ivory figures. Study the Bible and see if God ever allowed us to worship Idols, ex:moses brother aaron and the entire book of exedus.

Straw man.

I clearly do know! you have no idea who i am or you wouldn't make foolish accusations

You clearly do know, but won't say why. You imply that you are someone in the know, but won't say who that is. Let me guess...hmmmm...you don't have anything to back your claims up but will make vague asertions to the effect that you do in the hopes that we will believe it. Either that or you are a troll, which is looking more likely by the minute.

Catholic Theology and Doctrine has been changed over years to represent the Catholics in a good light it is very unreliable.

The Catholic Church is much too stone-stubborn to change it's doctrine simply to make Catholics look better. I think it's pretty clear from the Church's stance on many things that it is not interested in that sort of appeasement.

Quite possibly. Not possibly the information I posted is quite true from the only records the Catholics didn't destroy.

I don't suppose you have substantiation for that claim?

Kid, I'm only going to say this once.

I'm Catholic. I've taught many a lesson on Catholic doctrine and theology over the past few years in a Church-sponsored class. Please do not be so foolish as to presume to teach me about a religion that I went through several years of training to convert to. Your accusations are false, nonsensical, fallacious, and betray a serious lack of knowledge on your part.

I don't mind it if you disagree with the Catholic Church, but I will not stand for you lying about it and misrepresenting it. I might remind you the bearing false witness is a very serious offense, and that if you keep it up the Church would have a decent case to file suit against you in a court of law on the charge of libel.

There has only been one Church of Christ since He was man upon earth. You have no basis for your comments.

There has never been a unified church. The basis for my comments is history - you know, what actually happened?

There has never been a unified church. The basis for my comments is history - you know, what actually happened?
Yes, there has been. Christ established the One Church upon the cornerstone of Saint Peter and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.