NationStates Jolt Archive

This question has become a source of intense controversy:

After Death, a Struggle for Their Digital Memories

By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 3, 2005; Page A01

Stationed in a remote corner of Iraq, Marine Corps reservist Karl Linn's only means of communicating with the outside world was through a computer. Several times a week, the 20-year-old combat engineer would log on and send out a batch of e-mails and update a Web site with pictures of his adventures.

For his parents in Midlothian, Va., the electronic updates were so precious that when he was killed last week in an enemy ambush, one of the first things they did was to contact the company that hosted their son's account. They wanted to know how to access the data and preserve it.

But who owns the material is a source of intense debate.

Linn's father, Richard, said he believes the information belongs to his son's estate, just like his old high school papers, his sweaters and his soccer ball, and should be transferred to the next of kin. The e-mail and Web hosting company, Mailbank.com Inc., said that while it empathizes with the family's situation, its first priority is to protect the privacy of its customers. It refuses to divulge any information about the accounts.

As computers continue to permeate our lives, what happens to digital bits of information when their owners pass away has become one of the vexing questions of the Internet age. Much of that data are stored in accounts on remote servers and have no physical manifestation that can be neatly transferred. There are no clear laws of inheritance, meaning that Internet providers must often decide for themselves what is right.

Many Internet firms have found themselves facing criticism no matter what they do. If they decline to release the information, they are labeled villains by people supporting the families. If they give it up, they are chastised for violating their own privacy statements.

Complicating such disputes is the very nature of e-mail, which many consider to be more personal and informal than regular letters; some even use it to correspond anonymously, to hide aspects of their lives they may not want revealed to others.

"The difficulty is that there's no clear morally right or wrong," said Michael Froomkin, a professor of Internet law at the University of Miami.
[ Remainder of article clipped. ]

What are your views on this volitile issue?

In all honesty I think the only proper way to deal with the issue is to delete them. Who wants their loved ones to find out they had a subscription to a weird porn site, or regularly ordered penis enlargement pills? That sort of personal information should be taken with you to the grave, not released to loved ones who may feel traumatized by reading it.

In all honesty I think the only proper way to deal with the issue is to delete them. Who wants their loved ones to find out they had a subscription to a weird porn site, or regularly ordered penis enlargement pills? That sort of personal information should be taken with you to the grave, not released to loved ones who may feel traumatized by reading it.

*nods* i agree

Best bet would be to leave your accounts to people in your will.

The e-mail and Web hosting company, Mailbank.com Inc., said that while it empathizes with the family's situation, its first priority is to protect the privacy of its customers. It refuses to divulge any information about the accounts.
The phrase here is "Jobsworth". If I was the soldier's family I'd just wait until the death certificate arrives and then transmit a copy of it electronically to Mailbank.com. They they have no alternative but to turn over "their customer's" stuff to the family.

Alternatively they could just download everything on the site to their hard drive. Unless stuff is archived in locations they can't reach.

Either way, this is a company enforcing a rule which in the circusmtances steps beyond the realms of common sense and, I would say, decency.

The phrase here is "Jobsworth". If I was the soldier's family I'd just wait until the death certificate arrives and then transmit a copy of it electronically to Mailbank.com. They they have no alternative but to turn over "their customer's" stuff to the family.

Either way, this is a company enforcing a rule which in the circusmtances steps beyond the realms of common sense and, I would say, decency.

I definitely agree with your last statement. Mailbank may get a serious black eye from this.

Please elaborate on "Jobsworth." I've heard the name, but can't connect any data with it.

Well, unless you specifically request that the email gets willed to your loved ones, I'd assume it should just be deleted.

I'd say email, like anything else you write, falls under your intellectual property. And customarily after death those right are transferred to the next of kin, or whoever is mentioned in the will.

Please elaborate on "Jobsworth." I've heard the name, but can't connect any data with it.

Based on the (kind of) thing that a corporate employee might say to you when you ask them to do you a favour. "It's more than my job's worth to [...do whatever it is you're asking]".

Such people, who could either be being awkward on purpose, protecting their backs or genuinely frightened of backlash and/or being overwhelmed by similar requests to bend the rules a bit might thus be termed Jobsworths by those who don't see why they shouldn't. (A bit unfair on you if you're not the awkward sort, but it's all subjective I suppose, and a loved one pleading on compassionate grounds isn't going to have sympathy for the employees...)


My opinion regaridn the data? That which is publicly available should be saved, as it was published by the deceased, and I don't see why that cannot be done. Averything else is up in the air. Private emails sent to the family could be used by them as they wish (they were sent to them, though I wouldn't normally suggest that people publish private mail sent to them, unless the sender consents) and all other business his his business and you'd need some court-order or other (whatever the term is) to obtain, maybe...

What are your views on this volitile issue?
Well, first of all, I think it's volatile and not volitile ;)

Second, I think the belong to owner of the account. For example your e-mails on a company account, they belong to the company.

Their hotmail account, for example, should belong to the estate of the deceased.

However, I'm not adverse to the fact that ISPs ask for some document showing proof that you represent the estate before releasing that information. There is too much possibility for abuse otherwise.

Look, this is not a difficult thing.

Soldier = website owner.
Soldier = killed.
Website owner = killed.
Soldier next of kin = alive.Death certificate = proof of soldier killed.
Soldier next of kin + Death certificate = proof of identity (of soldier next of kin).

Seriously, once the death certificate arrives I would genuinely think the next legal step would be to present the document to Mailbank.com and ask them to extract the necessary information to forward Karl's emails to his parents (although I'm amazed they've not saved them anyway - probably skanky notmail users ;)) and then ask for the log-in information for his website. That, to me, is not only the common sense thing to do, but the legally responsible thing to do as proof of identity and proof of death are both presented. And not only that, it's the right thing to do.

And the jobsworth phrase... well that's really just for people that use "it's more than my job's worth" in situations where the rules are bollocks anyway. I've been in the situation myself before, on both sides of the fence. But I won't cite examples since I've rambled on enough already.

Needless to say, Mailbank.com stand to make themselves look like petty corporate scum in the face of an act of kindness to the family of a young man who died fighting for his country. Whatever your opinion on the war or the troops, I think it's fair to say Karl would want his folks to have his stuff.

Except possibly the porno.

All property except stated otherwise in a will should be given to the next of kin obviouly, and this should include non-tangable stuff. And if youve got lots of porn that's going to be handed over with it, that's not the companies problem and something you really should have thought of before dying.

I can see why the family are desperate to get to them, but I SURE wouldn't want all my stuff given over to my family without my permission. Too personal.

you're dead, what do you care, and im sure your family would love to get a better idea of who you were.

Well, first of all, I think it's volatile and not volitile ;)

However, I'm not adverse to the fact that ISPs ask for some document showing proof that you represent the estate before releasing that information. There is too much possibility for abuse otherwise.

I agree, but that was one of the issues in this instance ... that the company wouldn't release the emails even though it knew that the parents had such proof.

And BTW ... the word is "averse," not "adverse." :D

And BTW ... the word is "averse," not "adverse." :D
Yeah but I'm french, what was your excuse? :D

what about foreigners. The law is different if other countries - hotmail (owned by msn) is American but millions of people around the world use it. Does that mean only US law applies?

what about foreigners. The law is different if other countries - hotmail (owned by msn) is American but millions of people around the world use it. Does that mean only US law applies?
Yes because of the user term agreement you click when you sign up for an account. You enter in a contract that stipulate what laws if any are the one enforced.