NationStates Jolt Archive

Is it even worth it? I suppose its not fair if I don't put the question in context before asking it, so here it is.

I love this girl, gabby.I've known her for a couple of years, and we've been through a lot together. Regardless to say, we've had a very off and on relationship, never actually going out, but coming close. She couldn't have a boyfriend till she was 16, and then she got one right after her 16th birthday, before I had a chance to finalize anything.

Well, she broke up with they guy after like four months, or about last month. And today, I decided to make a move on it. I was so close to her, I didn't even think about the fact that she might reject me. And when I talked to her about it, I saw her face, and it made me feel so good inside. And then she told me she wanted to stay friends, and gave me the usual bullshit about not wanting a relationship at all, etc.

I was just devastated. And now its later in the day, and I still feel devastated. I feel like there is something stuck in me, that I cant get out. Something needs to explode, a it wont. I was a horribly depressed person for years, and I was just starting to get out of it. And now I'm getting sucked right back in.

Which leads back to the original question. Is it worth the emotional attachment? Every time I have gotten attached to people, I have been left, or hurt. I've never had a relationship, and I have no real purpose in life. I live every day, just because i'm not dead. Every time I get hurt, I regress a few steps. Is it worth it, for the small chance that I might not get hurt? Im not sure I can live through too many more regressions.

If you're going to get rejected, it's better to get rejected before you get attached.

Is it worth the emotional attachment?
Hell yes. Hermitism never leads to positive ends. Trust me, as I've said before, the faux security isn't worth being comfortably numb. I am in a similar circumstance, and you just have to grit your teeth and keep trying until you get into a relationship. I myself haven't gotten in one yet, but I know about the depths of depression and isolation, and they are far too dangerous to just succumb to.

Is it even worth it? I suppose its not fair if I don't put the question in context before asking it, so here it is.

I love this girl, gabby.I've known her for a couple of years, and we've been through a lot together. Regardless to say, we've had a very off and on relationship, never actually going out, but coming close. She couldn't have a boyfriend till she was 16, and then she got one right after her 16th birthday, before I had a chance to finalize anything.

Well, she broke up with they guy after like four months, or about last month. And today, I decided to make a move on it. I was so close to her, I didn't even think about the fact that she might reject me. And when I talked to her about it, I saw her face, and it made me feel so good inside. And then she told me she wanted to stay friends, and gave me the usual bullshit about not wanting a relationship at all, etc.

I was just devastated. And now its later in the day, and I still feel devastated. I feel like there is something stuck in me, that I cant get out. Something needs to explode, a it wont. I was a horribly depressed person for years, and I was just starting to get out of it. And now I'm getting sucked right back in.

Which leads back to the original question. Is it worth the emotional attachment? Every time I have gotten attached to people, I have been left, or hurt. I've never had a relationship, and I have no real purpose in life. I live every day, just because i'm not dead. Every time I get hurt, I regress a few steps. Is it worth it, for the small chance that I might not get hurt? Im not sure I can live through too many more regressions.
THERE are TWO people involved in any relationship! I'm sorry, but your feeling of 'something stuck in you' is just your egotism. If you define relationships as your only purpose in life, you are doomed, dude. Get a hobby.

I'm sorry, but your feeling of 'something stuck in you' is just your egotism.
No, that would be frustrated and depressive anger. He meant that more literally.

If you define relationships as your only purpose in life, you are doomed, dude. Get a hobby.
I think you misunderstand the situation. He has had no relationships. He is trying to break past his walls erected to protect himself from the outside, and made an effort which just resulted in thicker and more walls than he had before he asked.

No, that would be frustrated and depressive anger. He meant that more literally.

I think you misunderstand the situation. He has had no relationships. He is trying to break past his walls erected to protect himself from the outside, and made an effort which just resulted in thicker and more walls than he had before he asked.
I don't think I misunderstand, because I know a fellow in similar straits. He has had no relationship, but still considers a lady turning him down to be a "failure" at such. Worse yet, he considers (as do most people) "just friends" to be such a failure. A healthy attitude would be to consider "just friends" as potential for a future relationship.

I'm going to shut up, now.

THERE are TWO people involved in any relationship! I'm sorry, but your feeling of 'something stuck in you' is just your egotism. If you define relationships as your only purpose in life, you are doomed, dude. Get a hobby.

I have no purpose in life. Relationships are at least something to look forward to, where I usually have nothing.

I'm going to shut up, now.
Oh no, do not think of it that way. Your opinion is very welcome, for though I disagree, it is very good to stimulate the intellect. A more merciless viewpoint is probably a good addition, unless we take into account the psychological health of Chellis, of course...

However, I would like to add that "just friends" isn't a failure. Or at least I thought so yesterday. Now my passion has been aggravated and augmented, and "just friends" will no longer sate me... If a person is madly in love with another person, then why should he or she be satisfyed with "just friends"?

I don't think I misunderstand, because I know a fellow in similar straits. He has had no relationship, but still considers a lady turning him down to be a "failure" at such. Worse yet, he considers (as do most people) "just friends" to be such a failure. A healthy attitude would be to consider "just friends" as potential for a future relationship.

I'm going to shut up, now.

You sound like you either are, or have been, an abused Intellectual whore. If nothing else, I am not one of those.

www.intellectualwhores.com

Read ladder theory.

I have no purpose in life.
Pshaw! You are about to turn 17, am I right? You should still be in school. If you aren't, change that immediately. No wonder you feel you have no purpose if you don't educate yourself. There are surely subjects in school you are good at. Unless you're a nihilist, in which you're on your own, since being one myself I do not know how to help others with the occasional depressive waves. But you can still contribute so much. You can better whatever you want. Not to mention the fact that you have friends and family who would be devestated if you were to stop living. I am assuming you're parents care about you, in which there is purpose right there. You make others happy. Focusing on that can at least ensure that you don't take more drastic measures for your feelings of purposlessness.

Relationships are at least something to look forward to, where I usually have nothing.
Sometimes another person is just what someone needs to rejuvenate their spirit. I have seen it happen before. One of my friends was a pitiful druggie who was seriously messed up, until he got with his current girlfriend.

You sound like you either are, or have been, an abused Intellectual whore. If nothing else, I am not one of those.
What, ho? Are you saying that you buy into the school of thought that platonic love is wasted love? Unless you have plenty of female friends, you'd be wrong about that whole intellectual whore thing.

You sound like you either are, or have been, an abused Intellectual whore. If nothing else, I am not one of those.

www.intellectualwhores.com

Read ladder theory.

The ladder theory is crap.

Oh no, do not think of it that way. Your opinion is very welcome, for though I disagree, it is very good to stimulate the intellect. A more merciless viewpoint is probably a good addition, unless we take into account the psychological health of Chellis, of course...

However, I would like to add that "just friends" isn't a failure. Or at least I thought so yesterday. Now my passion has been aggravated and augmented, and "just friends" will no longer sate me... If a person is madly in love with another person, then why should he or she be satisfyed with "just friends"?
Haha! :) While I have some compassion for Chellis, I have to admit I did not consider his psychological health when formulating my response. But seriously, I think anyone who takes a rejection from someone they felt strongly towards --especially in high school --has to consider egotism --after all, the feeling is a one-way street. According to the story he related, she didn't feel the same way about him. Did he even consider that?
www.intellectualwhores.com

Read ladder theory.
Intellectual whores is a concept I was, admittedly, unfamiliar with until this very moment. The first hit on a search for "ladder theory" turned up a French translation, not very helpful since I don't speak the language. The next few moments of my life found me engrossed in Lorien's explanation of why Sheridan was still alive on Za'ha'dum --but that's neither here nor there. A third try left me wondering why you had pointed me at this site, as perhaps you are some student of social interactions taking a credit course from a reputable university. My next thought was, dude, get some real-time experience. Dating isn't to be had through theories.

'Kay, I'm tired.

Pshaw! You are about to turn 17, am I right? You should still be in school. If you aren't, change that immediately. No wonder you feel you have no purpose if you don't educate yourself. There are surely subjects in school you are good at.

I am still in high school, but high school is pathetic. I am smarter than the vast majority of people I know or have ever met. School is about details now, not fundamentals.

Unless you're a nihilist, in which you're on your own, since being one myself I do not know how to help others with the occasional depressive waves.

Not that I have ever Identified myself as such, but I suppose I am.

But you can still contribute so much. You can better whatever you want. Not to mention the fact that you have friends and family who would be devestated if you were to stop living. I am assuming you're parents care about you, in which there is purpose right there. You make others happy. Focusing on that can at least ensure that you don't take more drastic measures for your feelings of purposlessness.

I dont live for others, I live for myself. I make others happy, and if I left, they would be sad. But if I had never been there, things would mostly be the same. Some memories would be gone, some specifics, but nothing big. I live only because there is no alternative, death being the only thing worse than my life as it is.

Sometimes another person is just what someone needs to rejuvenate their spirit. I have seen it happen before. One of my friends was a pitiful druggie who was seriously messed up, until he got with his current girlfriend.

I have obsessive compulsive friends. Friends who obsess over one girl, or what have you. This chick certainly isn't the first i've gone after, I had to go through a great ordeal over another girl before her. But with the exception of gabby, even counting the other girl mentioned, it just doesn't feel the same. With gabby, it really was something special, something that made my insides crawl when I thought about her. And now I get to see her every day, play nice for social reasons, and die inside.


Replies are in bold.

Relationships are at least something to look forward to, where I usually have nothing.
Like I said, dude, get a hobby!

Haha! :) While I have some compassion for Chellis, I have to admit I did not consider his psychological health when formulating my response. But seriously, I think anyone who takes a rejection from someone they felt strongly towards --especially in high school --has to consider egotism --after all, the feeling is a one-way street. According to the story he related, she didn't feel the same way about him. Did he even consider that?

Intellectual whores is a concept I was, admittedly, unfamiliar with until this very moment. The first hit on a search for "ladder theory" turned up a French translation, not very helpful since I don't speak the language. The next few moments of my life found me engrossed in Lorien's explanation of why Sheridan was still alive on Za'ha'dum --but that's neither here nor there. A third try left me wondering why you had pointed me at this site, as perhaps you are some student of social interactions taking a credit course from a reputable university. My next thought was, dude, get some real-time experience. Dating isn't to be had through theories.

'Kay, I'm tired.

Ladder theory is linked on the site, check the links on the right. I suppose that wasnt made clear.


I am severly egotistical. However, in this sense, I did realize there was the large possibility of being turned down. However, while realizing that as a possibility, I never thought it would actually happen, or at least realizing the reprocussions. Me and her being together seemed to be almost a natural thing.

Like I said, dude, get a hobby!

I have hobbies. Those give me nothing to look forward to, they just occupy the time I have on this earth.

I agree with ladder theory. It's not new though, and has been stated clearly many times before in different forms.

I have hobbies. Those give me nothing to look forward to, they just occupy the time I have on this earth.
That's the point of them! I highly suggest the race track, or perhaps Los Vegas.

Las Vegas.

What, ho? Are you saying that you buy into the school of thought that platonic love is wasted love? Unless you have plenty of female friends, you'd be wrong about that whole intellectual whore thing.

Platonic love is wasted love, very much so.

Platonic love is wasted love, very much so.

This is very true. Unless you happen to like shopping and going out for coffee and shoes and shit like that. In which case it is okay I suppose.

The thing of it is, perspective about these things can only come with age. But let me tell you, this whole lets be friends thing is crap.

Ladder theory is linked on the site, check the links on the right. I suppose that wasnt made clear.

I am severly egotistical. However, in this sense, I did realize there was the large possibility of being turned down. However, while realizing that as a possibility, I never thought it would actually happen, or at least realizing the reprocussions. Me and her being together seemed to be almost a natural thing.
Look; I don't need some whomever's theory of dating to give advice. And you did ask for advice.

Having an ego is a good thing; everyone has one. It's what keeps us, as humans, going. Egotism is a feeling that the world owes you something because you exist. It doesn't. If I was mistaken in thinking your post said this, I apologize. The possibility of being turned down is not the same as the actuality of it, and you should have anticipated this possibilty --should have anticipated it for any such request of any girl. Now you know the "repercussions", you can use this to your advantage for the next girl you invite to share your life.

Platonic love is wasted love, very much so.
So, basically what you're saying is that your personal feelings conflict with reality, and you're unwilling to change your feelings. Good luck with that.

Platonic love is wasted love, very much so.

No, it isn't wasted love, or at least I still refuse to believe it's so. I've been nearly exactly where you've been before, with depression, and feeling something special with a person who utterly rejects you and wants to remain only friends. All I can say is that you'll have to move on, and that it's worth it. I've found someone better after I moved on. It took a few tries, but the journey prepared me for the destination - Never mind; ignore my random analogies. Though I think you should seriously look inward if you're asking for help on a forum with a bunch of anonymous people.

Platonic love is wasted love, very much so.
Platonic love is not 'friendship' love. It can go much deeper.

Look; I don't need some whomever's theory of dating to give advice. And you did ask for advice.

Having an ego is a good thing; everyone has one. It's what keeps us, as humans, going. Egotism is a feeling that the world owes you something. It doesn't. If I was mistaken in thinking your post said this, I apologize. The possibility of being turned down is not the same as the actuality of it, and you should have anticipated this possibilty --should have anticipated it for any such request of any girl. Now you know the "repercussions", you can use this to your advantage for the next girl you invite to share your life.

You misunderstand. I understood it could happen to, but I never thought it would. It really seemed like us getting together was inevitable, and not getting together felt like someone beat me with a bat.

Someone showed this to me today:

Ode to the Nice Guys
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

Fu-zu Jen, SEAS/WH, 2003

But seriously, I think anyone who takes a rejection from someone they felt strongly towards --especially in high school --has to consider egotism --after all, the feeling is a one-way street.
Perhaps this is just a difference in fundamental beliefs, but I do not feel that unrequited love is a sign of egotism. Though the similarly spelled egoism is indeed in discussion here.

According to the story he related, she didn't feel the same way about him. Did he even consider that?
Though I have to admit that it is surprising that he wouldn't even consider the possibility that she didn't, that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be crestfallen about the rejection.

I am still in high school, but high school is pathetic. I am smarter than the vast majority of people I know or have ever met. School is about details now, not fundamentals.
I can certainly sympathise with that. Do research on your own, push yourself outside of school. That's how I deal with it. If you have good teachers, they should be able to help you with that. Remember that you have a lot you can contribute to the world. I myself am a rabid environmentalist, and that helps motivate me. Though my entomological obsession helps as well. Go Hymenoptera!

By the by, however, you are not as intelligent as you think. If you were more social, you'd realise it's merely your academic interest that puts you a grade above the average. I used to think the very same thing, that everyone else was moronic. I now know much better, though I still flash my superior knowledge, I must admit.

Not that I have ever Identified myself as such, but I suppose I am.
You certainly sound at least nihilistic. Does not exactly help in the whole purpose thing.

I dont live for others, I live for myself. I make others happy, and if I left, they would be sad. But if I had never been there, things would mostly be the same. Some memories would be gone, some specifics, but nothing big.
Yes, but you are here, so there's no point in even bringing that up. And if you died, there would be sadness. Some parents fall into a depp depression they never manage to get out of if their children die. Some die.

I live only because there is no alternative, death being the only thing worse than my life as it is.
Or perhaps it is the irreversibility that makes you wary of death?

I have obsessive compulsive friends. Friends who obsess over one girl, or what have you.
Sounds like myself. I have an obsessive personality, which is why my biological and chemical, especically in the entomological and pathological, (virological is more developed by far), knowledge is so expansive. My lexical and etymological knowledge is not something to laugh at either. My obesssive compulsive nature certainly is not limited to my academic interests.

But with the exception of gabby, even counting the other girl mentioned, it just doesn't feel the same. With gabby, it really was something special, something that made my insides crawl when I thought about her. And now I get to see her every day, play nice for social reasons, and die inside.
Now what you would be experiencing is desperate love. My god it is my favourite and most loathed of all emotions! Such sweet suffering! You have had crushes on girls before, but you've never truly loved. I didn't get that intermediate stage, be grateful for that little prep, though ti doesn't appear to have helped you much. Since I feel similar myself, I can not give much advice. Just try to do whatever you can to perhaps sway her feelings to those more desirable to what you want. I may find myself in a near identical situation only tommorow. Whatever you do, leaving her as a friend won't be worth it. I have certainly felt that if I can't get the girl I love, and still feel, that I'll just think "Screw her" and just move on, if the girl is truly special to you, it is not what you'll probably want. If she is valuable enough, try to stay friends as best as is your capability.

You misunderstand. I understood it could happen to, but I never thought it would. It really seemed like us getting together was inevitable, and not getting together felt like someone beat me with a bat.
Yeah; we call that 'idealism'.

Dude, she's 16....what do you expect? I was a 16 yr old girl once who also didn't want to commit to a relationship. if you really care about her, be her friend for now and wait a few years for her to grow up.

No, it isn't wasted love, or at least I still refuse to believe it's so. I've been nearly exactly where you've been before, with depression, and feeling something special with a person who utterly rejects you and wants to remain only friends. All I can say is that you'll have to move on, and that it's worth it. I've found someone better after I moved on. It took a few tries, but the journey prepared me for the destination - Never mind; ignore my random analogies. Though I think you should seriously look inward if you're asking for help on a forum with a bunch of anonymous people.

As much as I respect you, Demoness, you are a woman, which gives you a very much different perspective. I personally wont waste my time on somebody's friends ladder. It took me way to long to figure out I was on this chicks one.

Platonic love is wasted love, very much so.
Ahh, so you are that type of person. Hedonism has its place, I agree fully! Not in love, unfortunately for you.

Someone showed this to me today:
I didn't read much, but I already know it's just pure rubbish. There are no "nice guys" as is portrayed by those. Especially not if they believe that platonic love is wasted love. Take what you want, and do it timely. I am currently learning that an incredibly painful way. If you consider yourself a nice guy and martryise youself so, then no wonder your not getting any.

Dude, she's 16....what do you expect? I was a 16 yr old girl once who also didn't want to commit to a relationship. if you really care about her, be her friend for now and wait a few years for her to grow up.
Word!

"No" does not mean "never".

As much as I respect you, Demoness, you are a woman, which gives you a very much different perspective. I personally wont waste my time on somebody's friends ladder. It took me way to long to figure out I was on this chicks one.

I understand, but I give you this advice as a friend. All I am saying is that you needn't completely walk away from her. Girls her age are stupid. If you're still around, she may come around herself eventually. That doesn't mean you can't date people.

Of course, the other option is to become gay. You guys are a lot easier to figure out than women.

I personally wont waste my time on somebody's friends ladder. It took me way to long to figure out I was on this chicks one.
Well then, nevermind. If this is your mindset, then is it really worth even trying to help? There is more to any relationship than the physical aspect. Learn that, or you will suffer.

I didn't read much, but I already know it's just pure rubbish. There are no "nice guys" as is portrayed by those. Especially not if they believe that platonic love is wasted love. Take what you want, and do it timely. I am currently learning that an incredibly painful way. If you consider yourself a nice guy and martryise youself so, then no wonder your not getting any.
Gnosticism speaks again. You all'd do well to listen to this fellow. "I" is all important, and cannot be dismissed, but there always is "the other". There is always a balance.

I understand, but I give you this advice as a friend. All I am saying is that you needn't completely walk away from her. Girls her age are stupid. If you're still around, she may come around herself eventually. That doesn't mean you can't date people.

Of course, the other option is to become gay. You guys are a lot easier to figure out than women.

I really, really wish I were attracted to men. That would make it so much easier.

I waited for two years for her, I have her time. I just look like a fool by waiting longer.

I waited for two years for her, I have her time. I just look like a fool by waiting longer.
Only by your own estimation. Who else knows about it? (i.e. Is this egotism again?)

Only by your own estimation. Who else knows about it? (i.e. Is this egotism again?)

Well, at least everybody in my chemistry class. Seeing as I didnt tell anyone, and she doesn't have that class that period, Im guessing a crapload of people.

----------

I posted this on a different forum, in july 2004. Its mostly beneficial to the backstory, but also my state of mind.

----

Ya, whatever. I should write a book.

There's this chick, gabby. I met her at the start of high school, 9th grade. I actually met her through a mutual friend, whom I liked at the time. Anyways, me and gabby became friends pretty fast. We talked on the internet alot, talked at school alot, etc. She's pretty good looking, not the hottest chick in the school, but pretty nice. So I started liking her.

So, I decide to tell her, I think its around the middle of 9th grade. I tell her, in person, and she says she likes me back. All good, right? Nah, why would I be making this post?

So she tells me that she can't have a boyfriend until she's 16. Maybe bull****, maybe the truth, I still don't know. Anyways, since I don't have any other prospects, except for a couple fatties, so I decide I'll just go along with it.

Alright. So we get closer and all, she starts telling me she loves me and all, whatever. A while passes by of mostly bs, nothing special. Then she finally tells me she doesn't like me anymore, cause im clingy and needy. Was kinda wierd being told that, but whatever, I wasnt really sad or anything, it wasnt like I lost anything.

So we're basically friends at this point, but I start avoiding her, because I'm still upset. So, we finally getting in a huge im convo, and she finally says that she didnt stop liking me because i was to clingy and needy, but because she was afraid of what people would think, or some bull****. It was vague.

So she finally tells me that she likes me again, and I go along with it again. No other prospects still. So by this time, 10th grade starts, and I go through probably half the school year thinking she likes me(her birthday is right before the start of 11th grade for us, or in a few weeks from now). So, after this time, we start arguing over something stupid over im, and we somehow get to talking about her liking me. And at this time, she decides to tell me that when she said she liked me again, she only meant as a friend. Which she never mentioned before that moment.

So I just say screw her, and completely stop being her friend. I was just pissed. So a couple months go by where I completely ignore her, even though she practically begs me to be her friend. After a few months though, I'm getting bored, and I start gradually being her friend again.

So, now we're getting close to now. Through the rest of the school year, me and her start getting really close again. Closer then we ever before, really. Hanging out every lunch at school, hugging every time we leave each other, kisses on the cheek, etc. And of course, saying we love each other all the time, even though we're only friends.

So, the end of the school year approaches. and now its getting confusing. Online, she starts telling me about how shes confused because a lot of guys want to go out with her, and she mentions that one of them is me. I make a deal out of it kinda, but I cant get her to say she doesn't like me back.

So, its summer now. She was in israel for like a month, she just came back last night, but she left for oregon for a month after that. The wierd thing was the few minutes we talked last night. I said hi, and that i missed her and stuff. The wierd thing was that she said "Thanks for waiting for me for so long, you're gonna have to wait a few more weeks though". And then the obligatory love you, love you more stuff, then she logged off, cause she was packing.

I dunno, maybe I'm just venting, but I wanted to get that out. Chicks, ugh.

Seems to me like you need to give her a little space. I can understand why you acted how you did, but you've got to understand that some people need some time away from those they care for.

Okay, so she's either playing with you or she's incredibly indecisive. In either case, it's not worth it with her, but that's no reason to say that any emotional attachment isn't worth it.

The rules of relationships:
- If you want her to know something, tell her.
- If you want to know something, ask her.
- If you want her to be a mind-reader, fuck you.

Seems to me like you need to give her a little space. I can understand why you acted how you did, but you've got to understand that some people need some time away from those they care for.

I've given her a plethora of time. I gave her time after her 16th birthday, and she ran and got a boyfriend. I gave her time after she broke up with him. I can't even realize why she doesn't want to be with me.

In either case, it's not worth it with her, but that's no reason to say that any emotional attachment isn't worth it.
Eh, he's just bitter he's not gonna get any. If he talks about the prospect of a few fatties, then you can kind of see where he's coming from.

The rules of relationships:
- If you want her to know something, tell her.
- If you want to know something, ask her.
- If you want her to be a mind-reader, fuck you.
Hear, hear! I just need to get the first two down a little better...especially the first one...such cowardice! damnable fear!

The rules of relationships:
- If you want her to know something, tell her.
- If you want to know something, ask her.
- If you want her to be a mind-reader, fuck you.

Ok...I've gone through them all fine.

I've given her a plethora of time.
Not time. You seem to have pressured her a little too much. You might intimidating or constricting her.

I can't even realize why she doesn't want to be with me.
Now that certainly seems egotistical. She likes you, but you have not shown her what she wants to see to like you further. As I said, give her breathing room.

I've given her a plethora of time. I gave her time after her 16th birthday, and she ran and got a boyfriend. I gave her time after she broke up with him. I can't even realize why she doesn't want to be with me.
D'oh! She's gone, dude.
Hear, hear! I just need to get the first two down a little better...especially the first one...such cowardice! damnable fear!
Du-u-u-ude!

Du-u-u-ude!
What, now?

Not time. You seem to have pressured her a little too much. You might intimidating or constricting her.


Now that certainly seems egotistical. She likes you, but you have not shown her what she wants to see to like you further. As I said, give her breathing room.

But thats the thing, I did give her breating room. Very much so.

But thats the thing, I did give her breating room. Very much so.
Oh, ok. I didn't get that impression, but I have not really gotten to observe this like you have. I also don't have a second or third explanation of the situation, which can help.

What, now?
Dewwwwwwed.

Encourage him to the dark side. It's over.

I have decided to popo my head in here, don't know why, but I am.

I just have to say this, yes emotional attachment is worth it, if your having second thoughts about the attachment, it never was an emotional attachment, yet lust. I know this because I have felt both, and emotional attachment feels 1000 times better, and it's not something you would really question as to wether or not it's worth it.

Look, Chellis: if you build it, they will come. But you have to get over this expectation that every girl you love must you love back. Feelings are not automatically reciprocated. Eventually, you WILL find one that is.

Dewwwwwwed.

Encourage him to the dark side. It's over.
Huh? How does that related to my self-criticism?

Im not sure how she is taking it, either. She keeps apologizing, calling me to talk, asking me how I feel, etc. She also posted a message on her myspace, randomly bitching about her sister...Which I think is related to this...

Huh? How does that related to my self-criticism?
Sorry; I read your posts as hope. Silly me.

Look, Chellis: if you build it, they will come. But you have to get over this expectation that every girl you love must you love back. Feelings are not automatically reciprocated. Eventually, you WILL find one that is.

You misinterpret my feelings. I spent a large portion of the day thinking of how she would react, and the majority of it was her rejecting. It just never felt like she really would.

Im not sure how she is taking it, either. She keeps apologizing, calling me to talk, asking me how I feel, etc. She also posted a message on her myspace, randomly bitching about her sister...Which I think is related to this...
What? She's acting like that and you're still pissed? She obviously still cares for you, just not quite in the way that you'd like. Nothing is permenant, and you'd do well to realise that all is but ripples in water.

What? She's acting like that and you're still pissed? She obviously still cares for you, just not quite in the way that you'd like. Nothing is permenant, and you'd do well to realise that all is but ripples in water.

If she cared for me, she would show it in some way. This is the first time I've laid my feelings on the line, with nothing interfering with it. The first time where I could be completely resolute, and she would be free to respond. And as such, I was rejected.

You misinterpret my feelings. I spent a large portion of the day thinking of how she would react, and the majority of it was her rejecting. It just never felt like she really would.
No offense, but this feeling is exactly what I'm talking about. It is an expectation.

If she cared for me, she would show it in some way.
This doesn't count?
Im not sure how she is taking it, either. She keeps apologizing, calling me to talk, asking me how I feel, etc.

No offense, but this feeling is exactly what I'm talking about. It is an expectation.
No, that is hope. If you convince yourself that you will succeed before you do anything, your confidence is boosted, which then leads to a greater success rate. I have a feeling that it is less egotism and more a tool. Pulling tricks like that on the psyche can help a lot at times.

Ok, if she cared about me as more than friends.

If she cared for me, she would show it in some way. This is the first time I've laid my feelings on the line, with nothing interfering with it. The first time where I could be completely resolute, and she would be free to respond. And as such, I was rejected.
And there's the crux of the matter: the expectation that she should react in a certain way. According to your expectations.

If this is the first time her awareness of your interest was raised, that alone is reason to expect her to react cautiously.

EDIT: I'm sorry; does this make sense at all?

And there's the crux of the matter: the expectation that she should react in a certain way. According to your expectations.

If this is the first time her awareness of your interest was raised, that alone is reason to expect her to react cautiously.

Read post 40. It certainly wasn't the first time, it was just the first completely open time, I guess. The time where if she said yes, everything would work out.

Read post 40. It certainly wasn't the first time, it was just the first completely open time, I guess. The time where if she said yes, everything would work out.
No offense, but I did read post 40. It was the first time for her, the first time she completely understood what you wanted, and said "uh-uh".

"If she said yes, everything would work out" expresses an expectation.

"If she said yes, everything would work out" expresses an expectation.
Though I admit that is probably a little naïve to think what he did, expectations are not bad. It is only natural for humans to try to think what will occur as a result of their actions.

No offense, but I did read post 40. It was the first time for her, the first time she completely understood what you wanted, and said "uh-uh".

"If she said yes, everything would work out" expresses an expectation.

With that wording, you can call many things expectations, with no real meaning behind them.

Before we could actually go out, we did say we liked each other. Once, at least, with real substance.

Though I admit that is probably a little naïve to think what he did, expectations are not bad. It is only natural for humans to try to think what will occur as a result of their actions.
What about "So we get closer and all, she starts telling me she loves me and all, whatever. A while passes by of mostly bs, nothing special. Then she finally tells me she doesn't like me anymore, cause im clingy and needy."?

looking back- the teen years are so difficult.
except for me, i was drunk all the time.
anyhow, in 5 years this wont matter to you.....so get over it now. there are many many many girls. and one is right for you.

looking back- the teen years are so difficult.
except for me, i was drunk all the time.
anyhow, in 5 years this wont matter to you.....so get over it now. there are many many many girls. and one is right for you.
yay finally some logical reason, that will more than likely be thrown away

except for me, i was drunk all the time...
yay! Someone has some perspective.

What about "So we get closer and all, she starts telling me she loves me and all, whatever. A while passes by of mostly bs, nothing special. Then she finally tells me she doesn't like me anymore, cause im clingy and needy."?

Read further. She says that was a lie. Dont take things out of context.

yay finally some logical reason, that will more than likely be thrown away
Unfortunately, not going to happen at such a hormonally charged period of development.

Unfortunately, not going to happen at such a hormonally charged period of development.
thats why i said it would be thrown away

yay! Someone has some perspective.
dont be jealous.

i also possessed terrific self esteem, which resulted in me never really getting my feelings hurt.

Read further. She says that was a lie. Dont take things out of context.
Okay, but you said it was bull****.

Read post 40. It certainly wasn't the first time, it was just the first completely open time, I guess. The time where if she said yes, everything would work out.
In other words, the first time you adhered to rule #1 of dating: If you want her to know something, tell her?

Okay, but you said it was bull****.

I said it was vague. Context ffs.

I have no purpose in life. Relationships are at least something to look forward to, where I usually have nothing.
If you have no purpose in life it isnt suprising that you have relationship issues. If you ever happen to find someone in life who happens to think that a satisfying relationship of the romantic kind is, rather than a coming together of equals, a codependency, in which one partner gives the other a 'purpose in life' I would suggest that person would be screwed up the point where it would be wiser not to have a relationship with them, and I would rate the chances of a good relationship occuring in such a scenario, as being low to none...

Get a purpose, may I ask what kind of loser wants a relationship with someone who is completely without purpose, and more importantly why you would want a relationship with such a loser, because if you dont want a relationship with someone who is happy to be in relationship with someone 'purposeless' you need to either resign yourself to getting a purpose, or not having relationships.

If you build it, they will come.

If you build it crappy, they won't.

Lol watta bitch^^^^&&&^^^%%%$%$%$%$$%###


?????????????????????????????

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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1
1
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in 5 years this wont matter to you.....so get over it now. there are many many many girls. and one is right for you.
Funny thing is I fell in love with my friend 7 years ago, she did the same thing and im still in love with her, no matter how much I try to get over her I can not, I cant even do the easy thing and just hate her. Ive dated a few other women since but I didnt feel anything near the emotions I have for said friend.

If you have no purpose in life it isnt suprising that you have relationship issues. If you ever happen to find someone in life who happens to think that a satisfying relationship of the romantic kind is, rather than a coming together of equals, a codependency, in which one partner gives the other a 'purpose in life' I would suggest that person would be screwed up the point where it would be wiser not to have a relationship with them, and I would rate the chances of a good relationship occuring in such a scenario, as being low to none...

Get a purpose, may I ask what kind of loser wants a relationship with someone who is completely without purpose, and more importantly why you would want a relationship with such a loser, because if you dont want a relationship with someone who is happy to be in relationship with someone 'purposeless' you need to either resign yourself to getting a purpose, or not having relationships.

If you are going to just come in here and insult me, don't bother. I already explained that relationships don't give me a purpose in life either. Its not like I just spew my feelings out to women either, I don't act like the emotionally disturbed wreck I sound like here. Most of my friends don't even know, defidentally not my family.

Chellis, I believe I know what you are talking about.
The only advice I know to give is to do something.
Something, anything. I don't know what someone would do. But I know the way I tried to handle it does not work.
If you are anything like me, that is, having an obsessive and easily addicted personality type, you must not try to ignore it. It can drive you mad. I would know, as I came damn close.

You know you're too far gone when you're listening to the Legendary Pink Dot's "Belladonna", and fondling a vial of belladonna extract. Don't do what I did and get fucked up enough that you try to kill yourself or others.

I don't have much advice to give, and if you knew me you'd know I'm not the kind of person that's good at giving advice. I may be fear-mongering here, I don't know. I don't know anything. All I know is that problems left alone grow far larger.

Whatever you do, peace be with you.

Love's never wasted, it takes up space that might have been filled with hate otherwise!

Sometimes a person wants to stay "just friends" because they understand that if you change from friends to lovers and blow it, you can never go back ... they value your friendship - ie YOU - too much to risk losing you that way. It's a positive rejection if you want to look at it that way.

If you've got a history of clinical depression - ask to see a psychotherapist, and don't accept one you don't feel comfortable with: I'm talking from experience here, you may still need anti-depressants off and on in your life, but good therapy is worth twice its weight in gold.

You're only 17 ffs!! You have a lot of people to meet still, and a lot of women are going to want YOU whom you won't want: treat 'em gently like gabby did you and look back on this as a bittersweet lesson you're grateful you learned.

btw, I had to kiss a large number of frogs before I met my prince when I was 38 - that's twice your age + 4, you note ... but I wouldn't have attracted him if I'd sat around and congratulated myself about how much cleverer I was than most other people, and ambled about life purposelessly like an amoeba ... start thinking of other people, get really involved in voluntary work (start a group raising funds for something you feel strongly about .. like eg mental health, dogs, kids, cancer ..) and knock off some of the arrogance, you'll be much nicer to know ;-)

Good luck, I'm sending you lots of vibes for a great life!

Love's never wasted, it takes up space that might have been filled with hate otherwise!

Sometimes a person wants to stay "just friends" because they understand that if you change from friends to lovers and blow it, you can never go back ... they value your friendship - ie YOU - too much to risk losing you that way. It's a positive rejection if you want to look at it that way.

If you've got a history of clinical depression - ask to see a psychotherapist, and don't accept one you don't feel comfortable with: I'm talking from experience here, you may still need anti-depressants off and on in your life, but good therapy is worth twice its weight in gold.

You're only 17 ffs!! You have a lot of people to meet still, and a lot of women are going to want YOU whom you won't want: treat 'em gently like gabby did you and look back on this as a bittersweet lesson you're grateful you learned.

btw, I had to kiss a large number of frogs before I met my prince when I was 38 - that's twice your age + 4, you note ... but I wouldn't have attracted him if I'd sat around and congratulated myself about how much cleverer I was than most other people, and ambled about life purposelessly like an amoeba ... start thinking of other people, get really involved in voluntary work (start a group raising funds for something you feel strongly about .. like eg mental health, dogs, kids, cancer ..) and knock off some of the arrogance, you'll be much nicer to know ;-)

Good luck, I'm sending you lots of vibes for a great life!

Im a really evil person. I would never help a volunteer group, wouldn't give money to tsunami victims, etc. I just don't care. I only care about myself... though don't interpret that as my actions with girls, I give them lots, I just don't really like that.

I don't feel like kissing frogs, as you put it. I have high expectations, and I'm willing to go after them. I'm a former IW, but I'm trying hard to be a smart OB, and it seemed to be working. I was an IW for Gabby for a while though, and thats the only reason I can think of that she rejected me.

I have no great friends. I lose touch with them after a while, and never see them again. I don't have a best friend, and girl's I stay just friends with, I stop being friends with soon. It just doesn't work for me.

bump

Ode to the Nice Guys
</snip>

Amen.

If you have been rejected many times in your life, then one more rejection isn't going to make much difference. If you've rejected, don't automatically assume it's your fault. The other person may have several reasons for not doing what you are asking her to do: none of it may have anything to do with you. Perhaps the person is busy or not feeling well or genuinely not interested in you. Rejections are part of everyday life. Don't let them bother you. Keep reaching out to others. Keep reaching out to others. When you begin to receive positive responses then you are on the right track. It's all a matter of numbers. Count the positive responses and forget about the rejections.

-Thom Yorke

If you have been rejected many times in your life, then one more rejection isn't going to make much difference. If you've rejected, don't automatically assume it's your fault. The other person may have several reasons for not doing what you are asking her to do: none of it may have anything to do with you. Perhaps the person is busy or not feeling well or genuinely not interested in you. Rejections are part of everyday life. Don't let them bother you. Keep reaching out to others. Keep reaching out to others. When you begin to receive positive responses then you are on the right track. It's all a matter of numbers. Count the positive responses and forget about the rejections.

-Thom Yorke

But if emotional attachments are created, then rejections can't just be blown off.

Though, she did say she wasn't looking for a relationship at that time, I just assume thats the standard bullshit that girls give.

Is it worth the emotional attachment? Every time I have gotten attached to people, I have been left, or hurt. I've never had a relationship, and I have no real purpose in life. I live every day, just because i'm not dead. Every time I get hurt, I regress a few steps. Is it worth it, for the small chance that I might not get hurt? Im not sure I can live through too many more regressions.

Short answer: yes, definitely.

Longer answer: I have said it already many times on here ... the more times you swing the baseball bat, the more baseballs you're going to hit. Applied to relationships, this means that the more girls you ask out, meet, hit on, date, etc., the better your chances of finding someone who is going to like you as much as you like them.

The female equivalent of this is, "you gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince."

EDIT: The very best way to make yourself attractive to others is to focus on things you enjoy. This makes you a more interesting person to those who enjoy the same or similar things.

But if emotional attachments are created, then rejections can't just be blown off.

Though, she did say she wasn't looking for a relationship at that time, I just assume thats the standard bullshit that girls give.

you're right, it is. you can't go out with friends, because 95% of the time, the transition just can't be made. here, i think you need to read this, it's the ladder theory, and it will help you figure out what is going on.

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

basically, its not bullshit that she doesnt want a relationship. what she means is that you are on the friendship ladder and she can't think of possibly dating you. it's a lost cause. the lesson: if you want to date her, you shouldn't get to be her friend first. i guess in that regard, emotional connections aren't worth it.

Is it even worth it? I suppose its not fair if I don't put the question in context before asking it, so here it is.

I love this girl, gabby.I've known her for a couple of years, and we've been through a lot together. Regardless to say, we've had a very off and on relationship, never actually going out, but coming close. She couldn't have a boyfriend till she was 16, and then she got one right after her 16th birthday, before I had a chance to finalize anything.

Well, she broke up with they guy after like four months, or about last month. And today, I decided to make a move on it. I was so close to her, I didn't even think about the fact that she might reject me. And when I talked to her about it, I saw her face, and it made me feel so good inside. And then she told me she wanted to stay friends, and gave me the usual bullshit about not wanting a relationship at all, etc.

I was just devastated. And now its later in the day, and I still feel devastated. I feel like there is something stuck in me, that I cant get out. Something needs to explode, a it wont. I was a horribly depressed person for years, and I was just starting to get out of it. And now I'm getting sucked right back in.

Which leads back to the original question. Is it worth the emotional attachment? Every time I have gotten attached to people, I have been left, or hurt. I've never had a relationship, and I have no real purpose in life. I live every day, just because i'm not dead. Every time I get hurt, I regress a few steps. Is it worth it, for the small chance that I might not get hurt? Im not sure I can live through too many more regressions.

Very good question, friend. I find myself in a similar dilemma of late. I've been going out with a boy for three years, and I was about to move in with him... when he suddenly dumps me for another. Needless to say, I've been wondering about the worthiness of trying to find someone and forge emotionnal ties with.

Is it worth it? A few months back, when I was with him, I would've said definitely yes and tried to cheer you up by saying how love is beatiful. Today? I'm not so sure anymore.

However, even though I'm scared of being hurt again... I suppose I'm also scared of hardening up so much that I can't find it in me to love or be loved anymore. Ultimately, all we can do is hope, and try to keep our heart opened up enough so that when we finally meet someone who's not going to hurt us, there's a place for that special person inside.

Chellis, you have to look at what she's going through as well. She just broke up with her boyfriend from what I can tell from your story. Even though I haven't been in too many relationships, I can tell you that breaking up with someone is extremely painful regardless of whether or not you were the one to decide to break things off or not. If you and she became boyfriend and girlfriend, it's possible that you would be a "rebound relationship," and I doubt you'd want to be a part of that.

Another thing you probably should bear in mind is maybe she does want to remain your friend. Perhaps she values you as a friend too much to risk ending the friendship if you two break up as a couple. As much as we can swear up and down that we'll remain friends no matter what, it's extremely hard to do so if there's additional emotional baggage.

The only thing I can suggest to you about your depression is to try to think about how you were able to pull yourself out of it when you did recently. Perhaps seeing yourself at the edge may prevent you from taking the plunge into the darkness. Perhaps you'll be able to find that light that keeps you safe. I hope you can, for your sake and for those who love you.

However, even though I'm scared of being hurt again... I suppose I'm also scared of hardening up so much that I can't find it in me to love or be loved anymore.
No! Do not harden up! There are much worse consequences than just what you think. The inability to love or be loved is so much worse than you imagine. It goes much deeper, and is one of the worst things you can do to yourself. Tearing down walls can be one of the most difficult things a person can ever do, from the sheer terror of being left without barriers. Do yourself a favour, don't build the wall to high in the beginning.

No! Do not harden up! There are much worse consequences than just what you think. The inability to love or be loved is so much worse than you imagine. It goes much deeper, and is one of the worst things you can do to yourself. Tearing down walls can be one of the most difficult things a person can ever do, from the sheer terror of being left without barriers. Do yourself a favour, don't build the wall to high in the beginning.

Only it's making it all the harder. I had built those walls a long time ago, and I lowered the barriers to make room for that special person. But now I find myself thinking that it was a mistake in the beginning, since it obviously ended in a most excruciatingly painful way.

It's not a conscious action, exactly. I just know I'm doing it because I know myself and have notions of psychology. I just can't help it. Somehow, even if it's only going to be temporary, I know I have to numb myself, lest the pain consumes me.

Love can be both wonderful and agonizing. It is a two-bladed sword of exquisite craftmanship. But it cuts deeply, and its wounds are slow to heal.

Only it's making it all the harder. I had built those walls a long time ago, and I lowered the barriers to make room for that special person. But now I find myself thinking that it was a mistake in the beginning, since it obviously ended in a most excruciatingly painful way.
I know why you're encountering those feelings, but, trust me, if you've gotten them lower, keep them there.

It's not a conscious action, exactly.
I'd assumed so. But you must make conscious effort to counteract it.

I just know I'm doing it because I know myself and have notions of psychology. I just can't help it. Somehow, even if it's only going to be temporary, I know I have to numb myself, lest the pain consumes me.
No, no, no. You don't want to become comfortably numb. It might be too seductive, and can be far too damaging. Better to experience the full range of emotions than to risk cutting any off in the long run. That is the whole thing here, you'll feel better in the short run, but in the long run it is not worth the risks.

Love can be both wonderful and agonizing. It is a two-bladed sword of exquisite craftmanship. But it cuts deeply, and its wounds are slow to heal.
Yes, but it is such sweet suffering!

Yes, but it is such sweet suffering!
You obviously have not just been abandoned by the person whom you loved most a month before moving in with in. And to find out that six days after the date you were supposed to finally move in with him, he's living with another one he's know for a few weeks at the most.

Is it even worth it? I suppose its not fair if I don't put the question in context before asking it, so here it is.

I love this girl, gabby.I've known her for a couple of years, and we've been through a lot together. Regardless to say, we've had a very off and on relationship, never actually going out, but coming close. She couldn't have a boyfriend till she was 16, and then she got one right after her 16th birthday, before I had a chance to finalize anything.

Well, she broke up with they guy after like four months, or about last month. And today, I decided to make a move on it. I was so close to her, I didn't even think about the fact that she might reject me. And when I talked to her about it, I saw her face, and it made me feel so good inside. And then she told me she wanted to stay friends, and gave me the usual bullshit about not wanting a relationship at all, etc.

I was just devastated. And now its later in the day, and I still feel devastated. I feel like there is something stuck in me, that I cant get out. Something needs to explode, a it wont. I was a horribly depressed person for years, and I was just starting to get out of it. And now I'm getting sucked right back in.

Which leads back to the original question. Is it worth the emotional attachment? Every time I have gotten attached to people, I have been left, or hurt. I've never had a relationship, and I have no real purpose in life. I live every day, just because i'm not dead. Every time I get hurt, I regress a few steps. Is it worth it, for the small chance that I might not get hurt? Im not sure I can live through too many more regressions.

Okay, I know rejection sucks. In fact to lose love is the worst thing that can happen to a person. In this case, you haven't lost it completely. She may still be hurting from the previous boyfriend, who knows what happened there. She may just need time. Of course, she may just not be attracted to you in that way and really does just want to be your friend. If that is the case, it takes a big person but it is something that can be done.

You don't need to give up on love or attachment. I know I said to lose a love is the worst thing that can happen to a person, but compared to having a true love it is always worth it. I know it is cliche, but "It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all." Love, relationships are the only genuinely meaningful things in human existance. Romantic love is extra special when it is done the right way. It can lead to a level of intimacy between two people on every possible level that is way more enjoyable than any other human relationship.

Even when you get hurt, and being as young as you are this is not the last time that will happen, you should always hold your head high and know that you at least had the courage to love, to take a chance, to truly live. Without love, what is life?

One piece of advice, and I know this won't be popular here, but the best way to learn how to love and develop the kind of relationship I mentioned above, is to understand who you are in this universe. God created you, formed you, died for you because you are the "apple of His eye". You are a beloved child of the Creator of the universe and no one can take that away from you. If you want to learn how to truly love, get to know God. He is the author of love and all that is good an valuable in this world. If you let Him, He can fill your life with a love that will make anything this world can throw at you, just another step in a love story that will last forever. That doesn't mean pain will never happen, but you will always have what you need to deal with it.

I wish you the best in your relationship/relationships. Always be honest with yourself and those you love about what is in your heart. Sometimes it hurts, but it is always worth it to be truly alive.

You obviously have not just been abandoned by the person whom you loved most a month before moving in with in. And to find out that six days after the date you were supposed to finally move in with him, he's living with another one he's know for a few weeks at the most.
Not yet. But I also happen to enjoy depression, so perhaps I'm not the best one to consult. Sure, I try to keep myself out of it, but that doesn't stop me from savouring the pain.

Not yet. But I also happen to enjoy depression, so perhaps I'm not the best one to consult. Sure, I try to keep myself out of it, but that doesn't stop me from savouring the pain.

Then that makes two of us. Perhaps we should create some sort of club for the lovelorn, sad and depressed persons that we are? Being sad is always more fun when you're not alone. It lets us bitch and moan until we feel better :)

you're right, it is. you can't go out with friends, because 95% of the time, the transition just can't be made. here, i think you need to read this, it's the ladder theory, and it will help you figure out what is going on.

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

basically, its not bullshit that she doesnt want a relationship. what she means is that you are on the friendship ladder and she can't think of possibly dating you. it's a lost cause. the lesson: if you want to date her, you shouldn't get to be her friend first. i guess in that regard, emotional connections aren't worth it.
Frist off, someone's already pointed that out, second of it's a crock of shit. You can't tell me that it isn't because my best friend is a female, and I have no desire to sleep with her, or any other sexual acts to her.

Frist off, someone's already pointed that out, second of it's a crock of shit. You can't tell me that it isn't because my best friend is a female, and I have no desire to sleep with her, or any other sexual acts to her.
The same is true with myself.

Is it even worth it? I suppose its not fair if I don't put the question in context before asking it, so here it is.

I love this girl, gabby.I've known her for a couple of years, and we've been through a lot together. Regardless to say, we've had a very off and on relationship, never actually going out, but coming close. She couldn't have a boyfriend till she was 16, and then she got one right after her 16th birthday, before I had a chance to finalize anything.

Well, she broke up with they guy after like four months, or about last month. And today, I decided to make a move on it. I was so close to her, I didn't even think about the fact that she might reject me. And when I talked to her about it, I saw her face, and it made me feel so good inside. And then she told me she wanted to stay friends, and gave me the usual bullshit about not wanting a relationship at all, etc.

I was just devastated. And now its later in the day, and I still feel devastated. I feel like there is something stuck in me, that I cant get out. Something needs to explode, a it wont. I was a horribly depressed person for years, and I was just starting to get out of it. And now I'm getting sucked right back in.

Which leads back to the original question. Is it worth the emotional attachment? Every time I have gotten attached to people, I have been left, or hurt. I've never had a relationship, and I have no real purpose in life. I live every day, just because i'm not dead. Every time I get hurt, I regress a few steps. Is it worth it, for the small chance that I might not get hurt? Im not sure I can live through too many more regressions.


Yes, emotional attachment is worth it, you just broke a rule:

NEVER EVER EVER EVER BE A "BEST FRIEND" OF A GIRL, SHE WILL WANT YOU THAT WAY, AND YOU WILL NEVER GO TO BED WITH HER.

Seriously.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER BE A "BEST FRIEND" OF A GIRL, SHE WILL WANT YOU THAT WAY, AND YOU WILL NEVER GO TO BED WITH HER.
Well, my best friend is a girl. And she'd go out with me if I asked her. However, I am also friends with the girl I want to go out with, and I'm not sure if she will...

Frist off, someone's already pointed that out, second of it's a crock of shit. You can't tell me that it isn't because my best friend is a female, and I have no desire to sleep with her, or any other sexual acts to her.
then you are either gay or she is ugly or you have somebody you think is better.

Well, my best friend is a girl. And she'd go out with me if I asked her. However, I am also friends with the girl I want to go out with, and I'm not sure if she will...
if the girl would sleep with you, and you are absolutly sure of this,then you are not her "best friend," you are on her good ladder. what portu cale is warning you about is getting onto the friendship ladder, which is what you are probably on with the second girl.

Okay, I know rejection sucks. In fact to lose love is the worst thing that can happen to a person. In this case, you haven't lost it completely. She may still be hurting from the previous boyfriend, who knows what happened there. She may just need time. Of course, she may just not be attracted to you in that way and really does just want to be your friend. If that is the case, it takes a big person but it is something that can be done.

You don't need to give up on love or attachment. I know I said to lose a love is the worst thing that can happen to a person, but compared to having a true love it is always worth it. I know it is cliche, but "It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all." Love, relationships are the only genuinely meaningful things in human existance. Romantic love is extra special when it is done the right way. It can lead to a level of intimacy between two people on every possible level that is way more enjoyable than any other human relationship.

Even when you get hurt, and being as young as you are this is not the last time that will happen, you should always hold your head high and know that you at least had the courage to love, to take a chance, to truly live. Without love, what is life?

One piece of advice, and I know this won't be popular here, but the best way to learn how to love and develop the kind of relationship I mentioned above, is to understand who you are in this universe. God created you, formed you, died for you because you are the "apple of His eye". You are a beloved child of the Creator of the universe and no one can take that away from you. If you want to learn how to truly love, get to know God. He is the author of love and all that is good an valuable in this world. If you let Him, He can fill your life with a love that will make anything this world can throw at you, just another step in a love story that will last forever. That doesn't mean pain will never happen, but you will always have what you need to deal with it.

I wish you the best in your relationship/relationships. Always be honest with yourself and those you love about what is in your heart. Sometimes it hurts, but it is always worth it to be truly alive.

I couldn't even get through this post without laughing my ass off. I stopped reading at god created me, anyways.


Anyways, I have read Ladder theory, and I subscribe in it.



I've been talking to her on the phone and stuff, and basically, she told me she just isn't looking for a relationship now. However, she also said that she didn't want to get my hopes up, and that she did only see me as a friend. That it wasn't personal.

Right...its never personal.

Is it even worth it? I suppose its not fair if I don't put the question in context before asking it, so here it is.

I love this girl, gabby.I've known her for a couple of years, and we've been through a lot together. Regardless to say, we've had a very off and on relationship, never actually going out, but coming close. She couldn't have a boyfriend till she was 16, and then she got one right after her 16th birthday, before I had a chance to finalize anything.

Well, she broke up with they guy after like four months, or about last month. And today, I decided to make a move on it. I was so close to her, I didn't even think about the fact that she might reject me. And when I talked to her about it, I saw her face, and it made me feel so good inside. And then she told me she wanted to stay friends, and gave me the usual bullshit about not wanting a relationship at all, etc.

I was just devastated. And now its later in the day, and I still feel devastated. I feel like there is something stuck in me, that I cant get out. Something needs to explode, a it wont. I was a horribly depressed person for years, and I was just starting to get out of it. And now I'm getting sucked right back in.

Which leads back to the original question. Is it worth the emotional attachment? Every time I have gotten attached to people, I have been left, or hurt. I've never had a relationship, and I have no real purpose in life. I live every day, just because i'm not dead. Every time I get hurt, I regress a few steps. Is it worth it, for the small chance that I might not get hurt? Im not sure I can live through too many more regressions.

i hear you, brother. especially this last part.

i had a horrible, bitter, drawn-out breakup fall of freshman year that ruined me for fresh/soph and some of junior year. i felt sad, lonely, not good enough, and uncared for.

what can i say? i know what you've been through and it sucks. just hang in there. get yourself a girl, even if you don't have any strong desire too. just take it easy, enjoy yourself and her, and don't get in too deep.

peace.

I couldn't even get through this post without laughing my ass off. I stopped reading at god created me, anyways.


Anyways, I have read Ladder theory, and I subscribe in it.



I've been talking to her on the phone and stuff, and basically, she told me she just isn't looking for a relationship now. However, she also said that she didn't want to get my hopes up, and that she did only see me as a friend. That it wasn't personal.

Right...its never personal.

i'd say she's a lost cause. i know it sucks, but you have to move on. besides, the more you want her, the less attractive to her you become. girls don't like guys who fawn over them, you need to know how to keep your distance.

then you are either gay or she is ugly or you have somebody you think is better.I'm not gay, and she isn't bad looking, but I just have no desire to sleep with her, and of course I'm single. crazy huh!

you couldn't imagine the troubles we are having convincing her parents we aren't going out

i'd say she's a lost cause. i know it sucks, but you have to move on. besides, the more you want her, the less attractive to her you become. girls don't like guys who fawn over them, you need to know how to keep your distance.

Like I just said, I have read ladder theory. I know this, and I'm not saying I have a chance with her. Most people turned this into a thing about her, I was asking a question about emotional attachment.

Is it even worth it? I suppose its not fair if I don't put the question in context before asking it, so here it is.

I love this girl, gabby.I've known her for a couple of years, and we've been through a lot together. Regardless to say, we've had a very off and on relationship, never actually going out, but coming close. She couldn't have a boyfriend till she was 16, and then she got one right after her 16th birthday, before I had a chance to finalize anything.

Well, she broke up with they guy after like four months, or about last month. And today, I decided to make a move on it. I was so close to her, I didn't even think about the fact that she might reject me. And when I talked to her about it, I saw her face, and it made me feel so good inside. And then she told me she wanted to stay friends, and gave me the usual bullshit about not wanting a relationship at all, etc.

I was just devastated. And now its later in the day, and I still feel devastated. I feel like there is something stuck in me, that I cant get out. Something needs to explode, a it wont. I was a horribly depressed person for years, and I was just starting to get out of it. And now I'm getting sucked right back in.

Which leads back to the original question. Is it worth the emotional attachment? Every time I have gotten attached to people, I have been left, or hurt. I've never had a relationship, and I have no real purpose in life. I live every day, just because i'm not dead. Every time I get hurt, I regress a few steps. Is it worth it, for the small chance that I might not get hurt? Im not sure I can live through too many more regressions.

Emotional attachment is worth it! If they are attached to you, in the same way, your home free! Of course, you can't let them know that until after somethings happened, because then they'll think your a creepy stalker. Trust me, I know. I was emotionally attached to a girl last year, and she thought it was like an obssesion (which it is, if you want to get technical). So she like yelled at me for an hour, and I immediatly stopped liking her. However, the only reason I was emotionally attached was because I thought she was to me.

But really, think about what happens if they are emotionally attached.

1. They really care.
2. You don't have to worry about her cheating on you.
3. You don't have to worry about her almost ever breaking up with you.

So if you are emotionally attached, then your in like a paridise for as long as the attachment lasts.

I totally agree with Chellis. It isn't worth it, which is why we should immediately begin to degenerate humanity into heartless calculating emotionless creatures, because that is the only way to stop it. As long as we are human, we possess this most fatal flaw. Emotional attachment is just a quick way of getting hurt.

In response to what Eutrusca said about baseball: if you can't hit the ball, its best to drop the bat and run at the pitch. You'll only ever get to first base, but at least you have a chance. Either that, or you shouldn't be playing in the first place. Now everyone go away and interpret this.

I totally agree with Chellis. It isn't worth it, which is why we should immediately begin to degenerate humanity into heartless calculating emotionless creatures, because that is the only way to stop it. As long as we are human, we possess this most fatal flaw. Emotional attachment is just a quick way of getting hurt.

In response to what Eutrusca said about baseball: if you can't hit the ball, its best to drop the bat and run at the pitch. You'll only ever get to first base, but at least you have a chance. Either that, or you shouldn't be playing in the first place. Now everyone go away and interpret this.

As sarcastic as you are being, I agree.