NationStates Jolt Archive

* Gets into asbestos lined box to survive flaming *

I am interested in what people think about Freemasons.

What do you know or think you know.

* closes lid on box *

Hmm. Secret shadow governments? Conceivable, and maybe even desirable. That's about all I got.

* Gets into asbestos lined box to survive flaming *

I am interested in what people think about Freemasons.

What do you know or think you know.

* closes lid on box *

Hmm. Ancient order. Claim origins date back to Solomon. Many founders of the US were members. Masonic symbols all over US monetary system. Current membership falling, by all accounts. Several members of the prior generation of my family were members.

That's about it. :)

The grand unifying theory of all crap, huh? That's what I think of all the conspiricy theories: they're crap.

We have a chapter of the freemasons here in my town and I assure you that no one living here is controlling global and interplanetary affairs. Nah, they're just a bunch of upper middle class men looking for an excuse to get drunk and pretend to be a mysterious intelligentsia in their free time.

I believe until recently officers serving with the British Military had to declare whether or not they were freemasons. (The requirement ended in the 80s I think).

Honestly though, while it might have meant something a hundred years ago, I don't think the Masons have that much power anymore.

Correct.

In England members of the Freemasons were required under the Secret Societies Act to give a list of their lodge members to the local JP.

Correct.

In England members of the Freemasons were required under the Secret Societies Act to give a list of their lodge members to the local JP.


Good old england. It knows how to deal with troublemakers.

Until the 1990's it was illegal to be a witch in Victoria.

It is still technically valid that you can kill a person if they are a communist so long as you do it with a drawn sword and you say "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!" (I think)

Until the 1990's it was illegal to be a witch in Victoria.

It is still technically valid that you can kill a person if they are a communist so long as you do it with a drawn sword and you say "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!" (I think)
*reminds himself to stay the hell out of Victoria* :eek:

My step-grandfather is one, I know the 'juniors' wear some sort of apron and I think it used to be prodestant only. There's a lodge just down the hill from me, they seem all right, they just sold a block of land and gave the profits to help build some hospital. If my step-grandfather is one, can I join? How would I join?

They are meeters in secret.

the fact that the Masons support the Shriners, and Shriners Childrens Hospitals do amazing things for many children, including one of mine, is enough for me.

Otherwise they support pretty much everything that mainstream America (and Canada too I would think) believes in.... belief in God but not extremism, humilty, service to community, democracy and liberty...

although the fact that many of the leaders of the French and American Revolutions were Masons is always good for the conspiracy theorists,

also the fact that the Masons have constructed a mythology linking them to the Knights Templar and King Solomon helps the conspiracy theorists have a good time as well.

My step-grandfather is one, I know the 'juniors' wear some sort of apron and I think it used to be prodestant only. There's a lodge just down the hill from me, they seem all right, they just sold a block of land and gave the profits to help build some hospital. If my step-grandfather is one, can I join? How would I join?

Ask your grandfather to place your name before the local lodge for membership.

* Gets into asbestos lined box to survive flaming *

I am interested in what people think about Freemasons.

What do you know or think you know.

* closes lid on box *

Secretive society. Politically connected & motivated. Rituals. Evil. /shrug

Is the Skull and Bones similar or connected to Freemason?

I am a Freemason, and a member of my local Oddfellows club!

Freemasons=club for rich men to make social contacts ... liberal-dominated ... theistic but generally against church-state entanglement, especially in the past ... lots of powerful people have been members and hence Freemasons are a target of conspiracy theories especially on the right ... often these converge with anti-Jewish conspiracy theories ... the Comintern required the French CP to kick out its Freemason members as a condition for membership ... this was a bureaucratic means of gutting the right wing of the party.

* Gets into asbestos lined box to survive flaming *

I am interested in what people think about Freemasons.

What do you know or think you know.

* closes lid on box *
My ignorance allows me to both fear and dispise them

Membership is grounds for excommunication, evidently molestation is not...

... liberal-dominated ...

I disagree!

Membership is grounds for excommunication.....


Well, I think the biggest reason why the Catholic church would be against the FreeMasons is that they are closely assoicated with the Knights Templar, even wearing the white gloves that the clergy of the Templars wore. The Knights Templar were brought up on heretic charges so the French King could claim their riches, since they are said to be the first people to invent the modern banking system, loaning money and such to the kings and kingdoms. The pope backed the French king in the accusations, maily due to black mail.

thus the tensions with the Pope and the organized catholic church that destroyed a very good knightly order with obviously false charges. I've had family members that were stong members in both organizations, and often times people have asked why me and my brothers and father aren't active members to this day, the main reason is the centralist ideals we hold and don't see how being connected to the Masons would benefit us too much, though my great uncle is one and my grandfather, his brother, was held in great honor by them.

I could become a member, all I have to do is ask, since they won't ask themselves.

I could become a member, all I have to do is ask, since they won't ask themselves.

You have to pass certain trials, and your initiation. You can't just say you want to be a member. It's not the BSA. To become a Mason, one must go through the Blue Lodge, which is the parent or mother Lodge of Freemasonry. The Blue Lodge consists of three degrees which serve as initiatory stepping stones into the deeper areas of Freemasonry:

1. Entered Apprentice

2. Fellow Craft

3. Master Mason


BTW I'm in the Scottish Rite, on my 22nd degree.

You have to pass certain trials, and your initiation. You can't just say you want to be a member. It's not the BSA.

I'm sure you, oh Johnny Wadd, are the master of such things. If I were to show interest in it, I would easily become a member, though any trials and such would be a mere technicallity. Though I'm sure you have some comments to the contrary, but I know otherwise, and have visited many of the lodges in the areas. Its one of the perks of having a traced family line that goes back to to your 60th grandfather, and seeing a good number of them in both the masons as well as the founding fathers of the Knights Templar.

Call it BS or what ever, I don't have anything to prove here on the internet. I understand its not just a, "hey i wanna join, I'm joe schmoe."

Next thread : Illuminati ??

I'm sure you, oh Johnny Wadd, are the master of such things. If I were to show interest in it, I would easily become a member, though any trials and such would be a mere technicallity. Though I'm sure you have some comments to the contrary, but I know otherwise, and have visited many of the lodges in the areas. Its one of the perks of having a traced family line that goes back to to your 60th grandfather, and seeing a good number of them in both the masons as well as the founding fathers of the Knights Templar.

Call it BS or what ever, I don't have anything to prove here on the internet. I understand its not just a, "hey i wanna join, I'm joe schmoe."


You should consider your trials more then a mere technicallity as you so nicely put it. One question though, if your family is full of such wonderful Masons, why would they clue you into anything that goes on in the Lodge in regards to secret ceremonies? You've visited many lodges in the area? What does that have to do with being a Freemason? I've visited all of the Temples in the southern US, does this make me a better Mason?

Yeah, I'm sure your tree is accurate as well! ;)

BTW I didn't call it BS, and nice tone!

You should consider your trials more then a mere technicallity as you so nicely put it. One question though, if your family is full of such wonderful Masons, why would they clue you into anything that goes on in the Lodge in regards to secret ceremonies? You've visited many lodges in the area? What does that have to do with being a Freemason? I've visited all of the Temples in the southern US, does this make me a better Mason?

Yeah, I'm sure your tree is accurate as well! ;)

BTW I didn't call it BS, and nice tone!


As I've said before, I don't personally have much interest in joining the FreeMasons at this time in my life. It would be a rather technicallity to join, since most of the time Masons tend to follow bloodlines, and they run the tests and such just to make sure they are up to the challenge. I never said once that anything of the Secret Meetings was told to me, the answers I always got where more inclined to, I can't answer them, but you could find the answers on your own, if you wished.

I stated the part about visiting the lodges was more of a point of my family has been open to use the lodges for family events, funeral wakes, and such. Showing the connection I've had with the lodges since my childhood, though I could have been a bit more descriptive in my statements.

A better mason would be mainly shown through rank and postion, as well as popularity. Since none of that has anything to do with my statements, visiting the Lodges doesn't make one better, and I didn't mean to imply it did.

I also never said I had wonderful masons in my family tree, my statement more included that my family line was closely connected to the Templar Knights and through such had ties with the free masons. Our family line, at one point, swore to protect Sir Thomas Smyth and his descendents.

Don't know if you were challanging my geneology, but our tree has been registered with the Founding Fathers of America, as well as currently being reviewed for holding title with the United Kingdom. Though the latter is purely for validation perposes then anything else.

Well, I think the biggest reason why the Catholic church would be against the FreeMasons is that they are closely assoicated with the Knights Templar, even wearing the white gloves that the clergy of the Templars wore. The Knights Templar were brought up on heretic charges so the French King could claim their riches, since they are said to be the first people to invent the modern banking system, loaning money and such to the kings and kingdoms. The pope backed the French king in the accusations, maily due to black mail.

thus the tensions with the Pope and the organized catholic church that destroyed a very good knightly order with obviously false charges. I've had family members that were stong members in both organizations, and often times people have asked why me and my brothers and father aren't active members to this day, the main reason is the centralist ideals we hold and don't see how being connected to the Masons would benefit us too much, though my great uncle is one and my grandfather, his brother, was held in great honor by them.

I could become a member, all I have to do is ask, since they won't ask themselves.
Actually, it has alot to do with a man cannot serve two masters and Roman Caholics must be loyal to the Pope.
Furthermore, both Templars and Masons (this may not be true with modern Masons) support usury, which is regarded as a sin by the Mother Church.

Besides, as a staunch supporter of John Paul I, I join with many Jesuits and Catholics in condemning both the Masonic Clergy in Rome and Pope John Paul II.

Don't know if you were challanging my geneology, but our tree has been registered with the Founding Fathers of America, as well as currently being reviewed for holding title with the United Kingdom. Though the latter is purely for validation perposes then anything else.

Well, your family won't have a title, as you are now all foreign citizens, although you will be able to see what title your ancestors held. But you won't have any rights and such to lands etc etc as most likely it would have been taken by a new land owner or down another family side of your ancestors.

Actually, it has alot to do with a man cannot serve two masters and Roman Caholics must be loyal to the Pope.
Furthermore, both Templars and Masons (this may not be true with modern Masons) support usury, which is regarded as a sin by the Mother Church.

Besides, as a staunch supporter of John Paul I, I join with many Jesuits and Catholics in condemning both the Masonic Clergy in Rome and Pope John Paul II.


The Catholic Church not only endorsed the Knights Templar, but also gave them a letter saying that they were to be held to no laws other then by G-d and the Pope. They were in good standing with the church for nearly their entire time in active exsistance, even given their red cross from one of the Popes, for their service to Christiandom.

They only fell out of faver after the French/English war, in which the French King Philip IV, who was on the verge of going bankrupt, declared that the Templars, who had a great wealth due to many nobles being in their ranks, heretics. Being a heretic was the only charge that could be given that would make the estates of the knightly order to be taken. Before going after the Templars, he had already gone after Jewish and Italian bankers, taking their money and expelling them from France.

He then used the Pope to back him, who the King had just given a good amount of power to, and the Papal Throne was in France at the time too, with maily French Cardinals. The rest of Europe resisted putting the Templars on trial, and only did so when the Pope put preassure on them, though even then most of them were found innocent. The French King had captured the Grandmasters though, and had each of them burned as Heretics.

Before this though, the Pope even tried to announce the Templars as innocent, but was quickly stopped by the French King, who would reveal that the Pope at the time hadn't been placed by proper ways. After this black mail was used, the Pope quickly reversed his stance once more and declared them heretics once more.

Well, your family won't have a title, as you are now all foreign citizens, although you will be able to see what title your ancestors held. But you won't have any rights and such to lands etc etc as most likely it would have been taken by a new land owner or down another family side of your ancestors.

Eh, it all depends on the popularity of the family lines and such. Not interested in the power of title, since in the US you can't legally have power of title. As I had stated, its more of a validation process then anything else.

Eh, it all depends on the popularity of the family lines and such.


How do you mean popularity?

The Catholic Church not only endorsed the Knights Templar, but also gave them a letter saying that they were to be held to no laws other then by G-d and the Pope. They were in good standing with the church for nearly their entire time in active exsistance, even given their red cross from one of the Popes, for their service to Christiandom.

They only fell out of faver after the French/English war, in which the French King Philip IV, who was on the verge of going bankrupt, declared that the Templars, who had a great wealth due to many nobles being in their ranks, heretics. Being a heretic was the only charge that could be given that would make the estates of the knightly order to be taken. Before going after the Templars, he had already gone after Jewish and Italian bankers, taking their money and expelling them from France.

He then used the Pope to back him, who the King had just given a good amount of power to, and the Papal Throne was in France at the time too, with maily French Cardinals. The rest of Europe resisted putting the Templars on trial, and only did so when the Pope put preassure on them, though even then most of them were found innocent. The French King had captured the Grandmasters though, and had each of them burned as Heretics.

Before this though, the Pope even tried to announce the Templars as innocent, but was quickly stopped by the French King, who would reveal that the Pope at the time hadn't been placed by proper ways. After this black mail was used, the Pope quickly reversed his stance once more and declared them heretics once more.
It doesn't matter whther or not they were guilty of witchcraft, Mason Clergy have continually interfered with the Holy See and prevented the reforms of His Holiness Pope John Paul I (Blessed of the Blessed, Pray for Him).

It doesn't matter whther or not they were guilty of witchcraft, Mason Clergy have continually interfered with the Holy See and prevented the reforms of His Holiness Pope John Paul I (Blessed of the Blessed, Pray for Him).


I don't know as much about the Mason's past, I was responding to the Templar part of the issue. Though I will say this, I have a problem with any organized Church that claim to follow Christs teachings, but hide behind walls, and dress in fine clothes. I ask, if I were to come to the Pope and say, can I have your jacket, would he give me his shirt as well? Would you? Christ taught to give up the world, not just the people of the world, but the items of the world as well. Not hide behind golden crosses, and fine white clothes.

The Pope may or may not be holy, I don't personally know. I would like to think he is holy, but only G-d knows a man's heart. His message is a bit flawed, in my opinion. I see a man that lives like a king, when Christ said to live like a servent, to wash the feet of strangers, and to go naked if it meant to give another warmth.

How do you mean popularity?

Well, the current Royal family doesn't have the strongest of blood lines, and still holds the crown. They are popular, though in the time of great kings, they would have been made war upon by now. The House of Steward left england, and its bloodline is left in question. They returned, claimed the title, and most people looked the other way, rather then do the full royal challenge and risk another war.

I don't know as much about the Mason's past, I was responding to the Templar part of the issue. Though I will say this, I have a problem with any organized Church that claim to follow Christs teachings, but hide behind walls, and dress in fine clothes. I ask, if I were to come to the Pope and say, can I have your jacket, would he give me his shirt as well? Would you? Christ taught to give up the world, not just the people of the world, but the items of the world as well. Not hide behind golden crosses, and fine white clothes.

The Pope may or may not be holy, I don't personally know. I would like to think he is holy, but only G-d knows a man's heart. His message is a bit flawed, in my opinion. I see a man that lives like a king, when Christ said to live like a servent, to wash the feet of strangers, and to go naked if it meant to give another warmth.
The wealth of the Church is far less then those outside the Vatican like to believe, all accross the wold Diocese find themselves unable to function and are crippled by debt.

Yet they continue to run schools, hostels for the homeless, foreign aid efforts and numerous chariable institutions. This is where the Church's "enormous wealth" is funelled into.

I ask you how you can condemn and organization that will allow itself to shutdown in order to feed the starving and clother the naked?

Would the Pope give you His clothes? No, John Paul II is not fit to suceed Peter as Bishop of Rome. Would Pope John Paul I have given you His clothes? Yes! Infact He sold numerous Church artifacts to support aid missions in Africa.

If Pope John Paul I was still alive and not found dead the next morning by the Masonic Cardinal whom he sacked the previous day, then His Church would be a much holier institution today.

Well, the current Royal family doesn't have the strongest of blood lines, and still holds the crown. They are popular, though in the time of great kings, they would have been made war upon by now. The House of Steward left england, and its bloodline is left in question. They returned, claimed the title, and most people looked the other way, rather then do the full royal challenge and risk another war.

'Time of great kings', now theres an interesting phrase...there have been very few of those...

And i think you mean house of stewart too! But there is a lot more to it than popularity.

Freemasons? Where can I find some? Chimney work is so expensive these days.. :/

The wealth of the Church is far less then those outside the Vatican like to believe, all accross the wold Diocese find themselves unable to function and are crippled by debt.

Yet they continue to run schools, hostels for the homeless, foreign aid efforts and numerous chariable institutions. This is where the Church's "enormous wealth" is funelled into.

I ask you how you can condemn and organization that will allow itself to shutdown in order to feed the starving and clother the naked?

Would the Pope give you His clothes? No, John Paul II is not fit to suceed Peter as Bishop of Rome. Would Pope John Paul I have given you His clothes? Yes! Infact He sold numerous Church artifacts to support aid missions in Africa.

If Pope John Paul I was still alive and not found dead the next morning by the Masonic Cardinal whom he sacked the previous day, then His Church would be a much holier institution today.


I don't think my statement said that I condemend anyone, I said I can't hold faith in a church that isn't humble. As for shutting down if they were to feed and cloth everyone, isn't that a lacking of faith? Doesn't Christ say the more you give, the more he will provide? My personal views about the Catholic chruch is that much of it is lost to tradition, as even the bible talks about, beware tradition and laws, for anyone that lives by the law, lives by a curse.

I don't know much about Papal History, though I do know that its seen as a seat of power, and as any seat of power, treachery will find its way to it. If what you say is true, then I could see the rift between the Masons and the Church. Though personally I can cast no judgement, both because I was not there as well as it is not my place.

'Time of great kings', now theres an interesting phrase...there have been very few of those...

And i think you mean house of stewart too! But there is a lot more to it than popularity.

Yes, I meant Stewarts, too much Lord of the Rings reading for my fingers, lol.

by great kings, I mean mainly powerful kings, few kings in any lands have been the greatest when it comes to those they rule over, corruption of power I suppose.

Popularity of the Nobles and Royality is what I mean by popularity. If they like you, then you are fine with them, if they don't, off with your head. The same is seen in lesser aspects in Politics. If they like you, then you gain power, if they don't you find yourself cut off from the rest, and have no more power to maintain yourself.

Yes, I meant Stewarts, too much Lord of the Rings reading for my fingers, lol.

No worries!


by great kings, I mean mainly powerful kings, few kings in any lands have been the greatest when it comes to those they rule over, corruption of power I suppose.

I got what you meant. I was saying there had been very few kings both great in power and great in deeds. As you say, power corrupts and abosolute power corrupts absolutely!

Popularity of the Nobles and Royality is what I mean by popularity. If they like you, then you are fine with them, if they don't, off with your head. The same is seen in lesser aspects in Politics. If they like you, then you gain power, if they don't you find yourself cut off from the rest, and have no more power to maintain yourself.

Very true, even if you were a king you had no standing army (late 17th century i think there was the first one), so you had to survive on your friends raising armies to help you!

I don't think my statement said that I condemend anyone, I said I can't hold faith in a church that isn't humble. As for shutting down if they were to feed and cloth everyone, isn't that a lacking of faith? Doesn't Christ say the more you give, the more he will provide? My personal views about the Catholic chruch is that much of it is lost to tradition, as even the bible talks about, beware tradition and laws, for anyone that lives by the law, lives by a curse.

I don't know much about Papal History, though I do know that its seen as a seat of power, and as any seat of power, treachery will find its way to it. If what you say is true, then I could see the rift between the Masons and the Church. Though personally I can cast no judgement, both because I was not there as well as it is not my place.
The Church of St Peter needs no humility.
On the contrary, I said the Church IS shutting itself down to feed the hungry, which IS a sign of it's faith in God and dedication to good works.
The Church is founded upon a succession of Pontiffs, who were left in charge of the Church by Christ.

It reall doesn't matter how you see the Seat of Peter, it is in itself uncorruptable as i represents goodness and truth. But, to kill a Pope invites evil into God's house and to appoint a man like JP2 you embrac it.

A rift? One should hope they were never intwined, any organization that would commit such acts of heracy and murder... let's leave it at The Church has good cause to condemn Free Masonry.

Freemasons are a bunch of middle/upperclass tosspots, all stuck up their own arses. They've no friends or social life so have to join a cult of similar losers.

Do a lot of good work for charity though :)

Rotovia would not like me at all. A former Catholic (was an alter boy for 6 years and no, I didn't have any issues with any of my priests) who once was considering the priesthood and now has left the church due to hipocracy in its organisation.

I still believe, I still respect the Church but not its organisation, I still pray. I now refer to myself as a Christian but I have not been in a church for almost two and a half years.

Even when I was actively Catholic I had a desire to join the Freemasons. My Grand Father was one, one of my uncles was and several of my cousins are Freemasons. My circle of friends has for what ever reason naturally formed to be predominently sons of Freemasons who have recently joined. I joined as well for a combination of reasons from those above.

Now that I am a Freemason I understand that the way in which I was brought up was very Masonic in its attitudes. Dad was raised by his Freemason father and it makes sence that Dad, even though he is not a Freemason, would attempt to emulate his upbringing on me.

As a Freemason I have done my best to follow its principals of Brotherly Love, Relef and Truth. I have discarded a lot of my predudice, maintained a giving spirit and - as I have always attempted to - kept a truthful dialoge with people.

If for these principals I am declaired evil, then so be it.

* Gets into asbestos lined box to survive flaming *

I am interested in what people think about Freemasons.

What do you know or think you know.

* closes lid on box *

Ooh. *drills a hole in the box and begins pumping in turkey gravy* :D

MMMMM gravy, hang on its comming a bit quick and I don't have a roast in here or chips for that matter.

Oh ow hot hot hot!

*Gets out of box*

Anyone got a napkin?

As someone who is a potential freemason (long familial line of 'em) I have to say that as far as I can tell they're harmless. They get together, wear funny hats, play cards and drink in moderation. That's about it.

And the real origins of the freemasons are probably to be found in a bavarian bricklayers union.

And the real origins of the freemasons are probably to be found in a bavarian bricklayers union.

From what I have read that's about right.

There are thories that the cerimony is based on the Egyptian King Making Cerimonies which the Jews took with them in the exodous and burried under King Solomons Temple which where then uncovered by the Templars during the crusades who fled to Scotland and America (pre Columbus) to escape to Popes Bull condemning them and then establishing themselves as Masonic lodges in the 1600's.

Others say they started as a club where blokes could have a piss-up. ;)

remember how fred and barney were lodge members in the flintstones?

im pretty sure the masons are just like that.

Also similar to the Stone Cutters

In all honesty, I know next to nothing about them.

Freemasons are a bunch of men who get together at some lodge. My cousin thinks the church I got to is associated with the freemasons and that when you are confirmed into the church, you become a freemason. Mind you, he's got alot of wild ideas I don't take seriously.

Actually, I believe many people are mistaking the Freemasons for a now-defunct order known as the Illuminati. The Illuminati branched out from the Freemasons and were accused of trying to take-over the world through assasination, blackmail, and marriage. However, they are believed to have died out by the dawning of the 20th century.
The Freemasons are a group, as before mentioned by others, descended from the Knights Templar of the crusades. They were created by a group of masons who wanted to work and worship together.

Do become a Freemason requires, basically, the following:
1. Believing in a Supreme Being (God, Yahweh, Allah; anyone who you believe is the Creator)
2. Being of Legal Age (18 years old, in most cases)
3. Being recommended by a fellow Mason (just talk to one for a little while)
4. Going through an initiation process (The same Mason who recommended you would most likely aid you through the process. You learn the history of the Freemasons and must recite an oath before a lodge).
5. Be Male (Though, many are beginning to admit females)

Many famous figures in history were Freemasons, including a variety of American Presidents. Benjamin Franklin and George Washington, too, were Freemasons.
The Freemasons are by far the largest group of people in the world.

Welcome RB - I wondered how long it would be before you turned up.

Illuminati - bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad.

Other thing is that revolutionaries in various Countries have used the cover of Freemasonry to hide their true identity and highjacked the true nature of the society.

Women join groups like the Order of the Eastern Star. Blue Lodges and other orders are totally male dominated.

Don't think Freemasons are the biggest group of people in the world.

Yes, the Illuminati were bad and, thankfully, now dead. I would hate to see how they would operate with modern technology.

However, I do think the Freemasons are one of the largest, if not the largest. They are in just about every country in the world, though persecuted in some countries like China.

the fact that the Masons support the Shriners, and Shriners Childrens Hospitals do amazing things for many children, including one of mine, is enough for me.
Actually, the Shriners are masons, to be a Shriner, you first have to be Freemason and then do some stuff (not sure what) and you get to be a Shriner

I believe the biggest group of people in the world would be Chinese citizens

Rotovia would not like me at all. A former Catholic (was an alter boy for 6 years and no, I didn't have any issues with any of my priests) who once was considering the priesthood and now has left the church due to hipocracy in its organisation.

I still believe, I still respect the Church but not its organisation, I still pray. I now refer to myself as a Christian but I have not been in a church for almost two and a half years.

Even when I was actively Catholic I had a desire to join the Freemasons. My Grand Father was one, one of my uncles was and several of my cousins are Freemasons. My circle of friends has for what ever reason naturally formed to be predominently sons of Freemasons who have recently joined. I joined as well for a combination of reasons from those above.

Now that I am a Freemason I understand that the way in which I was brought up was very Masonic in its attitudes. Dad was raised by his Freemason father and it makes sence that Dad, even though he is not a Freemason, would attempt to emulate his upbringing on me.

As a Freemason I have done my best to follow its principals of Brotherly Love, Relef and Truth. I have discarded a lot of my predudice, maintained a giving spirit and - as I have always attempted to - kept a truthful dialoge with people.

If for these principals I am declaired evil, then so be it.
Indeed, so be it.

If as a Catholic (or former Catholic) who joins an organization associated with not only attacks upon the Church but the alleged murder of a Pope, then you have brought upon yourself automatic excommunication and damnation.

Both organisations have in the past attacked one another.

The Freemasons are more than happy to accept Catholics into their ranks and in the past year worked with the Catholic group the Knights of the Southern Cross to provide tools to East Timor.

The Masons have also attended mass at the St Patricks Cathedral before going to Grand Lodge.

Attitudes need to change on both sides.

What an interesting thread.. I always wanted to know a little about Freemasons, and I know entirely enough about Catholicism. :) Given what I know now, I'd choose Freemason Lodges every time.

Freemasonry has been trying to open it's self up for years now.
Grand lodge in the UK runs tours, and there are (lightly edited, no passwords) videos. But anyone can by a book on all the ceremonies.

I was a freemason (Master Mason, Chaper & KT) but left all my lodges as I didn't feel the people there were living up to their vows.
The highest Ideals are the hardest to live up to and most of my fellow masons saw it as a evening out every so often and a bit of fund rasing thrown in.
I think any Vows you make you need to observe them at all times, not when you fancy. This is also the reason I don't regularly attend any church, there are too many hypocrites.

I still have friends that are in and moving up through the Grand Lodge ranks, thankfully the ones that are moving best are the ones that take thier obligations most seriously.

It is sad to have lost you. We need more people like you.