NationStates Jolt Archive


Doctor-assisted suicide

New Genoa
01-02-2005, 04:55
Sorry, the poll didn't work.

Are you for or against doctor-assisted suicide and in what cases?
BLARGistania
01-02-2005, 04:56
umm . . .poll?

S'okay with me.
Sumamba Buwhan
01-02-2005, 05:27
I was just thinking of this today

there are so many doctors out there that are better at killing people than saving htme that we need doctor assisted suicide to help keep them employed
Eichen
01-02-2005, 05:38
If I was going to be dehumanized by an excrutiating illness, I'd rather take the same option that we gave my dog (albeit, for her it wasn't an option).

I want to be put to sleep and not lose all of the respect I've earned in my life by moaning and shitting myself on a mattress.
Give me the absolute LD of something fast-acting, and I'll go out as I've lived...
Not afraid of death. Just pain and inhumane conditions.
Mentholyptus
01-02-2005, 05:42
Euthanasia/Doctor assisted suicide is fine by me
Kiwicrog
01-02-2005, 05:42
Doctor assisted suicide with a pole?

That sounds a bit excessive to me! :p
The Free Confederates
01-02-2005, 05:46
Although I am pro-choice liberal guy, Assisted Suicide is baaaad.

Why? Ever hear of HMOs and Managed Health Care? You realize how much cheaper it would be to prescribe lethal drugs then to treat the person! Although it would be the persons choice, HMOs are notorious for cutting corners. Assisted Suicide would just be another way for HMOs to cut cost.
Xenodracon
01-02-2005, 05:53
I do support it but the hard part is where to draw the line with so many circumstances available. How do you rate severity of an injury, psychological pain, physical pain? If the person is suffering from depression or other psychological disorders likely to be brought on by a painful ordeal, can they still ask for something like that? What if there's no pain but the person is paralyzed or simply loses the ability to do their job and things they love and doesn't see life as worth living in their condition?

This isn't a matter of the slippery slope theory often brought up where people are worried doctors may start making the decision to kill people. If doctor assisted suicide is to be allowed then it needs to have very specific guidelines and whatever rules are decided upon some people will feel it goes to far or not far enough.
Parrot Bay Island
01-02-2005, 05:58
I feel that assisted suicide is ok, because there are people out there that want to commit suicide but are not gutsy enough to actually go through with it. There are people out there that are sick and on their death bed, and I feel that in those cases people should be allowed to choose their own right to life. If they want to die, then let them die, the way they want to. (assisted of coarse)
Pantera
01-02-2005, 05:58
Although I am pro-choice liberal guy, Assisted Suicide is baaaad.

Why? Ever hear of HMOs and Managed Health Care? You realize how much cheaper it would be to prescribe lethal drugs then to treat the person! Although it would be the persons choice, HMOs are notorious for cutting corners. Assisted Suicide would just be another way for HMOs to cut cost.

Killing a patient means there is no more patient to pay you, but. There are cutting costs to increase their own profit, and then there is killing your patients and eliminating the potential profit that keeping them alive would bring...

I say fuck 'em. If you want to die, do it. Doctor assisted, whatever. If I really wanted to die, like no turning back, I would do it, and I wouldn't pay someone to do it for me, unless it was to cut me down in a hail of gunfire after I heroically disarm a bomb or something...
Thelona
01-02-2005, 08:22
I don't know any doctor in favour of legalising it (and I know quite a few doctors). The reason is mainly that it goes against the entire reason for being a doctor and starts a slippery slope that is hard to control.
Lacadaemon
01-02-2005, 08:30
I for one welcome it. Hopefully it will reduce the number of maudlin TV "documentaries" where people "work through" tragic events and find "closure."

If you are too miserable for life, end it. Don't try and bring the rest of us down.
Eutrusca
01-02-2005, 08:33
If I was going to be dehumanized by an excrutiating illness, I'd rather take the same option that we gave my dog (albeit, for her it wasn't an option).

I want to be put to sleep and not lose all of the respect I've earned in my life by moaning and shitting myself on a mattress.
Give me the absolute LD of something fast-acting, and I'll go out as I've lived...
Not afraid of death. Just pain and inhumane conditions.

Far too slippery a slope for my tastes, particularly if you're a prospective organ donor, as I am. :)
Lacadaemon
01-02-2005, 08:35
Far too slippery a slope for my tastes, particularly if you're a prospective organ donor, as I am. :)

I hate to burst your bubble here Eutrusca, but aren't you a little long in the tooth to be an organ donor?
Eutrusca
01-02-2005, 08:37
I hate to burst your bubble here Eutrusca, but aren't you a little long in the tooth to be an organ donor?

ROFLMAO! Um ... no, I don't think so. :confused: The last time I had them checked, they were in better condition than many 23-year-olds. :D
Lacadaemon
01-02-2005, 08:41
ROFLMAO! Um ... no, I don't think so. :confused: The last time I had them checked, they were in better condition than many 23-year-olds. :D

Nah, I was just curious because of a friend of mine. I guess he's a little older than you, but he was in great shape (played Hockey for RPI, back in their glory days in the 60s). At any rate, he had to go in for an op, and he told the doc to sign him up as an organ donor, and the doc told him it wasn't worth it at his age. He laughed though, and told them that was okay, if he didn't make it just donate his body to a med school as a teaching cadaver.
Transhumanity Omega
01-02-2005, 08:52
I don't know any doctor in favour of legalising it (and I know quite a few doctors). The reason is mainly that it goes against the entire reason for being a doctor and starts a slippery slope that is hard to control.

I know several doctors who are in favor of legalizing it. You'll find a large amount of neurologists think it's acceptable, because they understand the strength of neorological pain associated with Parkinsons, MS, etc.

As someone who has MS myself, I believe that the first right as a human being is the right to choose to end your existence. I'm FAR from even considering assisted suicide. But if my situation worsens, I DO want to know it's an option.

Fun fact: A large percentage of Kevorkian's patients had neurological conditions. If you do NOT have a neurological condition, you cannot even visualize the pain associated.

End Trans
Occidio Multus
01-02-2005, 10:28
if they legalize it, i am going to medical school.
right now, if you want to do it, call me. i will you know, guide you.
Thelona
01-02-2005, 11:51
I know several doctors who are in favor of legalizing it. You'll find a large amount of neurologists think it's acceptable, because they understand the strength of neorological pain associated with Parkinsons, MS, etc.

Your experience is obviously different from mine. My partner's father is a neurosurgeon and he's said that his co-workers are also against doctor-assisted suicide.

I believe that the first right as a human being is the right to choose to end your existence.

That's different from allowing doctor-assisted suicide. One you do, and the other you allow the doctors to provide a service. I agree with the first but think the second is impractical for a number of reasons.
Slinao
01-02-2005, 11:56
I've always wondered how doctor-assisted suicide works with the doctors oath. I've seen outcries from doctor groups trying to remove the title from a doctor that was also a govener. Since state law required him to sign any order that put a prisoner to the death penalty, they were saying he was braking his oath. Wouldn't this fall under the same thing?

I have mixed feelings on it myself. I can see where it can be morally wrong, though I can see mercy kills. Is it better to leave a man to bleed to death with no chance, or to finish the kill on his behalf?

It used to be a thing of honor, if you caused a man to be morally wounded or came across a man that was mortally wounded, and he was in pain and wished it, a mercy kill was nothing that people even batted an eye about. It was a responsiblity to those that were in the place to give it.
Asengard
01-02-2005, 13:33
Generally I'm against it. It happens all too frequently at the moment without patient consent. Consider Harold Shipman, and that nurse last year that snuffed her elderly patients to free up beds.

But I, like most people I suppose, am sympathetic to individual cases where the pain is great, the end is undignified and certain. In cases like these I suppose a case-by-case ruling could be made after court appeals, that might allow for a dignified end. But in these cases, it must be a rigorous and difficult action to bring about.

Look to Christopher Reeve for inspiration first.
Monkeypimp
01-02-2005, 13:59
If you have the right to life, you should have the right to not have life.
Keruvalia
01-02-2005, 14:01
Doctor assisted suicide sure beats neighbor assisted suicide.
Neo-Anarchists
01-02-2005, 14:17
I know several doctors who are in favor of legalizing it. You'll find a large amount of neurologists think it's acceptable, because they understand the strength of neorological pain associated with Parkinsons, MS, etc.
My father is a cancer surgeon, and he wholeheartedly supports doctor-assisted suicide.
Dempublicents
01-02-2005, 14:21
I hate to burst your bubble here Eutrusca, but aren't you a little long in the tooth to be an organ donor?

Weight, drinking habits, and other avoidable difficulties are much more of a block to organ donation than age is - if the person is otherwise healthy.
Dempublicents
01-02-2005, 14:23
I've always wondered how doctor-assisted suicide works with the doctors oath. I've seen outcries from doctor groups trying to remove the title from a doctor that was also a govener. Since state law required him to sign any order that put a prisoner to the death penalty, they were saying he was braking his oath. Wouldn't this fall under the same thing?

Not really. Neither really would. Often, allowing someone to die in a peaceful, painless manner does much less harm than the alternative.
Dempublicents
01-02-2005, 14:23
My father is a cancer surgeon, and he wholeheartedly supports doctor-assisted suicide.

I would venture a bet that most doctors dealing with cancer patients do.
Dempublicents
01-02-2005, 14:24
Generally I'm against it. It happens all too frequently at the moment without patient consent. Consider Harold Shipman, and that nurse last year that snuffed her elderly patients to free up beds.

For the record, if it is done without patient consent, or at least without consent of the guardian whom the patient gave power of attorney: it is not doctor-assisted suicide. In fact, it isn't suicide at all.
Dempublicents
01-02-2005, 14:25
I was just thinking of this today

there are so many doctors out there that are better at killing people than saving htme that we need doctor assisted suicide to help keep them employed

Wow, you really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
Neo-Anarchists
01-02-2005, 14:27
I would venture a bet that most doctors dealing with cancer patients do.
Hrm, I should ask my father's colleagues about this!
Time to send out some emails.
Suiiki
01-02-2005, 14:43
I'm against it all the way. I'm trying to get into medical school, and I believe that to kill a patient is immoral, and worse, it is murder. Plus, if it is legalized, then these so called doctors could kill a patient and claim that it was doctor assisted suicide. It's wrong. Killing a person is murder, no matter what the circumstances, no matter who it is, even yourself. but that's another topic all together.
Dempublicents
01-02-2005, 14:44
I'm against it all the way. I'm trying to get into medical school, and I believe that to kill a patient is immoral, and worse, it is murder. Plus, if it is legalized, then these so called doctors could kill a patient and claim that it was doctor assisted suicide. It's wrong. Killing a person is murder, no matter what the circumstances, no matter who it is, even yourself. but that's another topic all together.

Oh, so very, very naive...
Islamigood
01-02-2005, 14:46
its time for us too all embrace euthanization. We do it in unwanted pets. Why not do it in unwanted people ( meaning the person chooses not to live any more and has a witness or signed document stating as such). The only thing stopping it is these sissy religious pundents who think it goes against gods plan. What they do nto realize is tha tif it is legalized and happens it was obvoiusly part of gods plan at that time. Who are these uppity pricks to think that they can dictate what is godly and what is not. Since its ot suicide the peopel killed this way get all the rights an prveledges of any other dead person in the here after ( if you beleive in this sort of thing). And if you do not beleive in religion all the more reason to legalize it you do not have the mental constipation that organized religion brings. so yes legalize it tommorow its a win win situation for all involved accept big ego neo-cons whoa re destroying all of the progress the world has seen in the last 30 years anyway.
Pantera
01-02-2005, 18:28
An experiment. Pretend for a moment, that -you- have a terminal disease. We'll go with cancer. Just pretend:

You get home from the doctor. The appointment went well, no blinding pain during it, only the dull ache behind your eyes that never seems to leave... But, the doc says the growth is blooming at an alarming rate. You could have an hour to live, or you could have two long, terrible years. The nausea from the therapy is finally starting to fade, but the nausea from the medication is only beginning.

So? How do you feel?

WAIT! Don't answer yet, because the sudden blinding agony in your back has driven all coherent thought from your mind and as you look around, you realize you've collapsed to the floor. You don't know how long you've sat there in a huddled wreck. The searing pain that's shooting up your spine seems unreal, but your screams bring it to reality.

So? How do you feel?

Hold that, because you just retched all over yourself. This happens sometimes, but you can't help it. The medication is ruining the lining of your stomach, and lately you've found it near impossible to keep anything down. As you look, you realize that the bile all over you is flecked with spots of blood. That's bad.

So? How do you feel?

We're not done yet. The past few weeks you've gotten progressively worse. Your vomitting is uncontrollable lately, and as the pain incapacitates you more often than not, your family has taken to staying close so they can care for you. You -know- they love you, but the pity in their eyes hurts you to the bottom of your soul.

You can hear it, though they don't say it. Who is this wretched thing, and where is the person we all loved so much? You wish you could end it before you slip any further, and all the memories of you that your family has left of are a sobbing, cancerous wreck of a person, too mad with the agony to even resemble the one they had so many wonderful memories with.

So? How do you feel?

/Experiment. I've had two people who were quite close to me die of cancer. It's not a pretty thing. While I loved them both with all of my heart, and still do, I would rather remember them laughing with us over a beer, throwing horseshoes, or kissing their wives, instead of the mewling, emaciated shells of people that they became near the end.

That said, the intent oath of Hipocrattes isn't to 'save life at all costs' or something, but it's to never deny aid to those in need, no matter what. The sick are to be healed, the starving to be fed, etc etc. Is keeping a cancer patient barely alive truly 'healing' them, or is it simply letting them stay sick awhile longer before they die? Personally, I would rather be set free.

Death is easy. You don't need a doctor with serilized needles. What you -do- need, is a will to see it through, and the conviction to decide if it's time for you to go or not. If I ever get very, chronically ill, you can be goddamn sure that no 'law' against it is going to stop me. A fistful of pain killers, a fifth of boiler gin, and a fatty spliff will put you to sleep easy, at home, and on your own terms.
New Genoa
01-02-2005, 20:42
umm . . .poll?

S'okay with me.

The poll didn't work. And then I lost connection the internet.
Terra Formi
01-02-2005, 22:24
Wow, you really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

I think that it was a joke.

Anyway, to the topic, I would like to say that I'm in favor of all suicides. Especially my own. It would probably make me feel 'better' to have a doctor do it, but no, I don't want to go by poison. I want something physical and violent, but not really painful.

Gun shot to the temple, I think, especially because of the willpower it would take to pull the trigger.

People tell me that suicide is an option for the weak, but think of how hard it would be to kill yourself.
Florida Oranges
01-02-2005, 22:49
By examining countries where euthanization is legal, I've come to the conclusion that it's not a good thing, at least not for nations with more than 200 million people. So far it has been difficult to regulate in the Netherlands...they have a serious problem over there with doctors going through with euthanization without the patient's consent. The barbiturates used to euthanize people, though for the most part safe, have proven to be wild cards here and there. They can induce nausea, throwing up, headaches, blindness etc. etc. All sorts of nasty things, and believe me, there are cases where euthanasia has gone wrong and barbiturates have done these very things. There are even a slim margin of cases where the drug dosage wasn't right, and people didn't die until two or three days after being administered the drugs.
Musky Furballs
01-02-2005, 22:56
I live in Oregon, USA where its legal for Dr.s to prescribe lethal pills for the terminally ill. You have to meet a certain criteria, such as being able to keep the pill down, two Drs, a mental evaluation- all resonable assurance that you know what your doing without undo outside influence.
Many have gotten the prescription.
The world hasn't ended.
Many have said in interviews that having the option was the biggest relief. Many who've gotten the prescription never use it.
I am all for Dr assited-suicide, with the right controls.
Neo-Anarchists
01-02-2005, 22:57
By examining countries where euthanization is legal, I've come to the conclusion that it's not a good thing, at least not for nations with more than 200 million people. So far it has been difficult to regulate in the Netherlands...they have a serious problem over there with doctors going through with euthanization without the patient's consent. The barbiturates used to euthanize people, though for the most part safe, have proven to be wild cards here and there. They can induce nausea, throwing up, headaches, blindness etc. etc. All sorts of nasty things, and believe me, there are cases where euthanasia has gone wrong and barbiturates have done these very things. There are even a slim margin of cases where the drug dosage wasn't right, and people didn't die until two or three days after being administered the drugs.
That's why they should use better methods, i.e. the bag and band method is very reliable.

Also, legalizing euthanasia isn't what caused these deaths, I would think. Euthanasia is illegal in the US, and we have problems with murder of patients here too.
Preebles
01-02-2005, 23:17
I'm a med student and I know plenty of people/doctors in favour of voluntary euthanasia, like me.
And whether carrying out euthanasia violates the role of a doctor is a matter up for debate. Personally I don't think it does, as two of the four main medical ethics are "beneficence and non-maleficence." i.e. do good, and no harm. Your interpretation of these is the key.
(The other two are privacy and autonomy...)
Jenn Jenn Land
02-02-2005, 00:18
No. Bad.
I posted here earlier but it didn't work for some reason. But anyway.
I wanna be a doctor. In my opinion, it's a doctor's job to save lives, not to destroy them.
I won't even begin to pretend that I know how bad pain can get. But if everyone who got sick and didn't want to go on, medicine wouldn't progress. That probably sounds very cruel, but what about the people who get sick and WANT to live?
Neo-Anarchists
02-02-2005, 00:20
what about the people who get sick and WANT to live?
Simple, you don't kill them.
It's doctor assisted suicide, not murder by doctor. If they don't want to die, they don't.
Dempublicents
02-02-2005, 00:23
No. Bad.
I posted here earlier but it didn't work for some reason. But anyway.
I wanna be a doctor. In my opinion, it's a doctor's job to save lives, not to destroy them.
I won't even begin to pretend that I know how bad pain can get. But if everyone who got sick and didn't want to go on, medicine wouldn't progress. That probably sounds very cruel, but what about the people who get sick and WANT to live?

If you want to be a doctor, I hope you develop a bit more empathy - and remember that not all ailments can be cured.
Jenn Jenn Land
02-02-2005, 00:25
If you want to be a doctor, I hope you develop a bit more empathy - and remember that not all ailments can be cured.
Just because I believe assisted suicide is wrong doesn't mean I'm not empathetic. That was more than just a little unfair.
Dempublicents
02-02-2005, 00:34
Just because I believe assisted suicide is wrong doesn't mean I'm not empathetic. That was more than just a little unfair.

Not really unfair at all. Your comment suggests that you either have never seen someone who is terminally ill, or you have no empathy.

In the case of a terminally ill patient, keeping the patient alive often causes more harm than good - thus breaking the Hippocratic Oath. The vast majority of doctors who work with such patients are aware of this fact. The role of a doctor is to heal, if possible. In cases where it is not possible, all medical technology does is prolong the pain and the inevitability of death. By your logic, a doctor should feel ashamed every time an elderly patient dies. In truth, medicine is not ever going to defy nature.
Tangapoo
02-02-2005, 00:40
The only thing stopping it is these sissy religious pundents who think it goes against gods plan.

But then so does all of medicine. Someone loses an arm, medical science has allowed them to get a prosthetic arm. In this situation, "God's plan" was for that person to live without an arm. Diseases that killed many years ago are now curable and we don't have to worry about them. "God's plan" was to use those diseases as population control and modern medicine has blocked that.

Modern medicine has provided many opportunities that people years ago weren't able to have which includes longer life spans. Theres no reason not to embrace everything that modern medicine has to offer.

I'm not saying that it's ok to go out an euthanize joe blow off the street for no reason. However, if someone is in chronic pain or degenerating from a life-long illness, it should be their choice. Why make them suffer if they don't want to?

I love how there have been comments relating to pets in this thread. We treat our animals as a part of the family. Instead of forcing them to waste away in pain and sickness, we do the humane thing and put them down. Why can't this be applied to humans?

The largest group of people that have suicidal tendencies are the elderly. They have lost their independence, confined in a nursing home, their friends and family are dying. Many of them are sick and in pain. If they have no reason to live any longer, why force them to? A quick shot like you gave your dog would be much more humane than letting an elderly woman starve herself to death because she just cant stand hanging on any longer.
Jenn Jenn Land
02-02-2005, 00:45
Not really unfair at all. Your comment suggests that you either have never seen someone who is terminally ill, or you have no empathy.

In the case of a terminally ill patient, keeping the patient alive often causes more harm than good - thus breaking the Hippocratic Oath. The vast majority of doctors who work with such patients are aware of this fact. The role of a doctor is to heal, if possible. In cases where it is not possible, all medical technology does is prolong the pain and the inevitability of death. By your logic, a doctor should feel ashamed every time an elderly patient dies. In truth, medicine is not ever going to defy nature.

Medical "technology" is a patient's choice. They can chose not to get any more help, and the course of their treatment should they chose it.
But I'm not going to give them pills, or an injection, of anything to cause death.
That, to me, is wrong, and it's not hypocritical for me to think so.
Tangapoo
02-02-2005, 00:47
Medical "technology" is a patient's choice. They can chose not to get any more help, and the course of their treatment should they chose it.
But I'm not going to give them pills, or an injection, of anything to cause death.
That, to me, is wrong, and it's not hypocritical for me to think so.


There, you said it. They can chose their course of treatment. If their choice happens to be euthanasia, that should be respected.
Equus
02-02-2005, 00:48
Having worked in health care with terminally ill clients who were in pain no narcotic could touch, I feel strongly that adults should have the right to assisted suicide.

Let us have Death with Dignity.

I am terrified of someday being in that same position and being forced to endure the torture of living in relentless, unbearable pain.
Dempublicents
02-02-2005, 00:49
Medical "technology" is a patient's choice. They can chose not to get any more help, and the course of their treatment should they chose it.
But I'm not going to give them pills, or an injection, of anything to cause death.
That, to me, is wrong, and it's not hypocritical for me to think so.

*shrug* As far as I'm concerned, standing by and watching someone suffer when I could do something about it is akin to causing harm.
Jenn Jenn Land
02-02-2005, 00:50
There, you said it. They can chose their course of treatment. If their choice happens to be euthanasia, that should be respected.

Suicide is their choice, a choice that I would not help them pursue. But if I'm told about it, and I believe that there is a danger, as I would be required to, I would commit them.
Dempublicents
02-02-2005, 00:54
Suicide is their choice, a choice that I would not help them pursue. But if I'm told about it, and I believe that there is a danger, as I would be required to, I would commit them.

In other words, "I would break the Hyppocratic Oath I plan to take and cause harm."
Equus
02-02-2005, 00:57
I should add:

I know that assisted suicide could be abused. You need to have a system in place to ensure that people aren't being pressured into accepting euthanasia. For example, the system could require:

- The person needs to have have been diagnosed with a terminal illness.

- They need to be able to articulate their desire to die to their doctor without the assistance of family members (or others who may have a conflict of interest) r have it written into their living will.

- Once they have articulated this desire to die, they would need to speak with a counselor or therapist to determine whether they were suffering from a treatable depression or genuinely wanted to end their life. There is a considerable difference between someone with the early stages of multiple schlerosis and depression and someone wasting away from cystic fibrosis or Hodgekins.
Preebles
02-02-2005, 01:08
I should add:

I know that assisted suicide could be abused. You need to have a system in place to ensure that people aren't being pressured into accepting euthanasia. For example, the system could require:

- The person needs to have have been diagnosed with a terminal illness.

- They need to be able to articulate their desire to die to their doctor without the assistance of family members (or others who may have a conflict of interest) r have it written into their living will.

- Once they have articulated this desire to die, they would need to speak with a counselor or therapist to determine whether they were suffering from a treatable depression or genuinely wanted to end their life. There is a considerable difference between someone with the early stages of multiple schlerosis and depression and someone wasting away from cystic fibrosis or Hodgekins.
Great post there.

It's just a pain in the arse that competence is so hard to judge. :p
Equus
02-02-2005, 01:17
Great post there.

It's just a pain in the arse that competence is so hard to judge. :p

Well, competence is hard to judge when someone's competence is questionable. It's not if no one questions it. But the legal and medical systems judge competence all the time, this would just be another situation in which it would need to be done.

What I'd really, really like is to add a clause to my living will, saying that I have considered the ramifications of being terminally ill and in constant pain, and reject it. Some kind of statement where the younger, not terminally ill me backs up the right of the older, dying me to kick the bucket should I so choose.

Oregon's version of assisted suicide intrigues me. I wish our Canadian politicians would hurry the hell up and legalize same sex civil marriages already, so they can get to work on an assisted suicide bill before I'm 80 and dying of pancreatic cancer.
Thelona
02-02-2005, 01:21
In other words, "I would break the Hyppocratic Oath I plan to take and cause harm."

Just a technical point here. Doctors don't take the Hippocratic oath anymore, and haven't for some time. There are some fairly antiquated and unpalatable things in there. They do take a modern version of it though.

From the point of view of this discussion, it's a good thing they don't take it. One line reads:


I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect.


That would be the end of the discussion, really.
Blue Floyd
02-02-2005, 01:22
It's not that hard guys. Abortion should be outlawed except in special cases. So why shouldn't it be the same with assissted suicides? Use your heads people.
UpwardThrust
02-02-2005, 01:40
It's not that hard guys. Abortion should be outlawed except in special cases. So why shouldn't it be the same with assissted suicides? Use your heads people.
You use such harsh qualifiers like “should”

What basis of judgment are you using to say that abortion should be outlawed and euthanasia allowed in cases
And what cases?
Thelona
02-02-2005, 01:56
It's not that hard guys. Abortion should be outlawed except in special cases. So why shouldn't it be the same with assissted suicides? Use your heads people.

a) Abortion and euthanasia are not closely related
b) Outlawing abortion is hardly a majority position

Perhaps you would like to explain why you think your post is relevant to the topic?
Jenn Jenn Land
02-02-2005, 02:44
In other words, "I would break the Hyppocratic Oath I plan to take and cause harm."

No. Causing harm would be to kill them.
I'd be all for trying to make their last few days, months, years all the more comfortable.
There may be some doctors out there who would be willing to help their patients kill themselves, but I won't be one of them. "Dying with dignity" as you call it, in my opinion, is fighting till the end. Not giving up.
UpwardThrust
02-02-2005, 02:52
No. Causing harm would be to kill them.
I'd be all for trying to make their last few days, months, years all the more comfortable.
There may be some doctors out there who would be willing to help their patients kill themselves, but I won't be one of them. "Dying with dignity" as you call it, in my opinion, is fighting till the end. Not giving up.
have you ever worked in a nursing home envyroment? seriously god help anyone that tries to stop me if I ever reach that point in my life.

I respect your right not to wish to preform the act but dont make other people live in pain for your personal morals
Jenn Jenn Land
02-02-2005, 02:57
dont make other people live in pain for your personal morals

That would be hypocrisy.
If a future patient of mine wants it, and it's legalized, God forbid, then he or she can go to someone else.
UpwardThrust
02-02-2005, 02:58
That would be hypocrisy.
If a future patient of mine wants it, and it's legalized, God forbid, then he or she can go to someone else.
Fair enough :)
Dempublicents
02-02-2005, 04:56
No. Causing harm would be to kill them.

You don't think that having a sane person committed causes them harm?

I'd be all for trying to make their last few days, months, years all the more comfortable.

...all the while making sure that they live longer and longer in the pain...

There may be some doctors out there who would be willing to help their patients kill themselves, but I won't be one of them.

Which is not the same thing as taking steps to prevent them from making their own decisions.

"Dying with dignity" as you call it, in my opinion, is fighting till the end. Not giving up.

That is your personal opinion, and you are welcome to it.