NationStates Jolt Archive

I was wondering anyone out there have any info on recent wars last 30 years where an Comm/socialist country has invaded another country? Such as China, Russia N korea etc. Was wondering if anyone had a link showing who has more wars capatalist democracys or the comm/socialist countries?

I was wondering anyone out there have any info on recent wars last 30 years where an Comm/socialist country has invaded another country? Such as China, Russia N korea etc.
Vietnam counts...barely.

They've pretty much all been civil wars...though the USSR in Afghanistan counts.

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979.

I really can't think of any. At least off the top of my head.You have to go back to the middle ages and up to about 1850 to find any good wars involving socialist nations, but at that time, most of them were monarchies.

Oh wait. . .WWII with Soviet Forces, Afghanistan with Soviets, Iraq 2.0 with GBR, and. . .I think that may be it.

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979.
weren't they invited in? now china invading vietnam and vietnam invading cambodia, i'm pretty sure no one asked either of them in.

Chinese invasion of Tibet?

If we're going to look more than 30 years ago, the Soviet invasions of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Persia should count too. (Though the last was a combined operation with the British)

1979= USSR invades Afghanistan
1970's=communists start civil war in cambodia
1970's= Communist North Yemen invades Republican Yemen.
70 or 80's= Cuba invades Angola to assist Communist rebels.
China invading Vietnam don't count cause both nations were communist at the time.

If we're going to look more than 30 years ago, the Soviet invasions of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Persia should count too. (Though the last was a combined operation with the British)
Actually the latter wasn't really an invasion, it was more a joint allied effort. The Soviets withdrew after WWII ended.

70 or 80's= Cuba invades Angola to assist Communist rebels.


Correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't the communists already in power, and cuban support was to fight the right-wing UNITA insurgents?

Actually the latter wasn't really an invasion, it was more a joint allied effort. The Soviets withdrew after WWII ended.

Well, it was an invasion in the style of the "Remove the government and replace it with one that will do as we ask" mould.

China invading Vietnam don't count cause both nations were communist at the time. why wouldn't that count

Well, it was an invasion in the style of the "Remove the government and replace it with one that will do as we ask" mould.
Actually the government was never overthrown by the Soviets due to the fact that Persia was on the side of the allies in WW2.

1979= USSR invades Afghanistan
1970's=communists start civil war in cambodia
1970's= Communist North Yemen invades Republican Yemen.
70 or 80's= Cuba invades Angola to assist Communist rebels.
China invading Vietnam don't count cause both nations were communist at the time.
North Vietnam invading South vietnam counts though.

I was wondering anyone out there have any info on recent wars last 30 years where an Comm/socialist country has invaded another country?


Invasion of Iraq in 2004 involving many 'socialist' nations.

North Vietnam invading South vietnam counts though.
yes it does.

weren't they invited in?
Thats just a lame xcuse, the USSR wanted to impose its will on the Afghan people and Install a Puppet...

just got some general, or Gov official to "invite you"

North Vietnam invading South vietnam counts though.sounds like a Civil war...North vs South.

sounds like a Civil war...North vs South.
But North Vietnam and South Vietnam were two politically distinct countries, with two politically distinct governments, both founded at different times by different people.

um the Korean war? the communist north invaded the south, and then the chinese invaded b/c we got to close to their border.

Well, in the last 15 years, 'communist' nations have been for the most part on the retreat, or course, before that there were things like the Chinese invasion of Tibet, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The war between the Koreas is still technically in existence, but shots haven't been fired in large quantities there for a while. So, for about half of the time period you've listed is really not a time of influence for 'communist' nations.

Actually the government was never overthrown by the Soviets due to the fact that Persia was on the side of the allies in WW2.

I recall that the original Shah was denying the passage of lend lease shipments, and that's why the invasion occured.

oh yeah, i think it was in the late 70's or early 80's vietnam and cambodia went to war, and Vietnam has also made numorous rades into Laos to strike against Hmong villages. So i guess there is two more examples.

If our time period were say...100 years, the list is long and extensive (possibly even more so than the big bad capitalist countries') But our time period is thirty years, and there are special conditions in the last thirty years that change this situation.

If our time period were say...100 years, the list is long and extensive (possibly even more so than the big bad capitalist countries') But our time period is thirty years, and there are special conditions in the last thirty years that change this situation.

How about this then: we have a look at the time period between 1960 and 1990, which gives us a thirty year span, and compare how many times the US invaded another country with how many times the USSR invaded another country. I could be wrong here, but I think that even if we were to throw China in on the side of the USSR and add its invasions to the total, then the US woudl still come out with a higher score.

How about this then: we have a look at the time period between 1960 and 1990, which gives us a thirty year span, and compare how many times the US invaded another country with how many times the USSR invaded another country. I could be wrong here, but I think that even if we were to throw China in on the side of the USSR and add its invasions to the total, then the US woudl still come out with a higher score.

The soviets had a different way of handeling things, they funded communist guerillas, rarely did they actually invade a country. For example they were behind funding for the chinese, koreans, vietnamese, malaysian (failed), laoation, cambodian, cuban, mongolian, Nicaraguian, many throughout europe (post WWII puppet governments), africa (eithopia, yemen, mozambique), well any way you get the idea. The Soviets didn't need to invade to spread there influence, money and guns did it for them.

The soviets had a different way of handeling things, they funded communist guerillas, rarely did they actually invade a country. ... The Soviets didn't need to invade to spread there influence, money and guns did it for them.

Much the same can be said for the US: this was how the cold war was kept cold. Covert operations were the tools that both sides employed.

Much the same can be said for the US: this was how the cold war was kept cold. Covert operations were the tools that both sides employed.

Very true, conventional warfare is expensive. States try to avoid it.

Very true, conventional warfare is expensive. States try to avoid it.

Post 1990 (disregarding China, for the moment) we see that the US seems somewhat less reticent to operate conventional warfare: and your comment that it is expensive is not really covering the whole issue. During WWII, after all, the US economy improved greatly as a result of waging war. In the end it comes to this: losing a war is (in most cases) expensive, whereas winning a war is (in most cases) lucrative.

China went into Vietnam, India and Russia. Mostly on border issues.

China was also testing, whether Russia would come to help Vietnam.

I guess, the US has waged more wars alone than all "communist" countries together.

It's also notable that the USSR funded other nations to fight, while the US often did the fighting on its own. It's also notable that the USSR didn't take part in as many UN policing actions as the US and western nations. I'm using the 1960-1991 timeframe as well. Often times the US was at the head of coalitions and the like. This list includes actions by various communist countries.

Vietnam War-pre temporary ceasefire
Vietnam War-end of cease fire to end of war
NVA and VietCong in Laos
Vietnamese Invasion of Cambodia
Cambodian Insurrection and Khmer Rouge
Chinese-Vietnamese Incident
China-Russia Border Wars
Chinese invasion of Tibet
Chinese invasion of Nepal
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan
Cuban Intervention in Algeria
Cuban Invasion of Grenada
Nicarauguan civil war
Invasion of Czechoslovakia by Warsaw Pact
Invasion of Hungary by USSR

Arab-Israeli Wars (not necessarily communist wars, but Arabs sponsored by USSR, so this one's a kind-of)

Post 1990 (disregarding China, for the moment) we see that the US seems somewhat less reticent to operate conventional warfare: and your comment that it is expensive is not really covering the whole issue. During WWII, after all, the US economy improved greatly as a result of waging war. In the end it comes to this: losing a war is (in most cases) expensive, whereas winning a war is (in most cases) lucrative.

Not necessarily winning world war I was runious for the UK. As was WWII.

Also I think you could consider the Soviet intervention in Prague in 1968 an invasion.

Looking at the time period 1960-90, off the top of my head, the only country I can recall the US actually "invading" was Grenada. (Although it was certainly actively involved elsewhere). (I'm don't count vietnam as an invasion).

On the USSR side, I recall Czechoslovakia and Afganistan, putting the USSR slightly ahead. I'm sure I'll remember more later on though.

Edit: D'oh Panama, 89 IIRC. That makes it a tie.

How about this then: we have a look at the time period between 1960 and 1990, which gives us a thirty year span, and compare how many times the US invaded another country with how many times the USSR invaded another country. I could be wrong here, but I think that even if we were to throw China in on the side of the USSR and add its invasions to the total, then the US woudl still come out with a higher score.
Of course, if we look at probable civilian death counts the communists are wayyy ahead.

In total, the US has actually been involved in an invasion three times: the invasion of Vietnam, and both Gulf Wars. Other than that, we've been involved in provoked wars (the Japanese bombed us at Pearl Harbor, and Germany responded by declaring war on us; we were supporting our allies in WWI; we were invaded by the British in 1812; the Revolution was a civil war; the Civil War was... etc.). Then again, only Vietnam can really consider unprovoked, since, during both Gulf Wars, we were enforcing UN Sanctions, no matter how many other nations decided to abandon those resolutions in favor of their own political gain. The USSR, alone, however, is guilty of invading every single country you see in Eastern Europe today during WWII, and then failing to return them to sovereignty. The US has never done something such as this, unless you think the Civil War counts.

Soviet wars 1919 - 1991
Russo - Polish War 1919 - 1921 --- Poland tried to expand to its 16th Century borders (which included most of Belorus and a lot of the Ukraine), got defeated, Soviet counteroffensive nearly got to Warsaw, was defeated...both called it a draw.

1930s Soviets sent advisors, military equipment (inlarge quantities) to Republican (very socialist) Spain (who lost to Franco) and to Nationalist China... little success but Soviet Union acquired some gold for their trouble.

1939 Soviet - Japanese clash along Manchurian/Soviet border... Japanese got their ass handed to them

the Polish and Japanese war were esssentially self defense, the efforts in Spain and Nationalist China were a bit more cynical but could be considered a worthy cause

1939 Soviet - Nazi Pact.... Soviets invade Poland (for no reason at all), take half the country. Katyn Forest Massacre by NKVD of Polish officers (several thousand) is direct result. Soviets invade and conquer (meeting little resistance) in Latvia, Lithuenia and Estonia (massive purge and deportations resulted). Soviets annex Bessarabia (invade it basically) from Rumania, although in this case, Soviets were taking back territory Rumania was foolish enough to take from Russia post World War I (although a lot of Rumanians lived in it)... once again more purges and deportations (and a lot of executions)..

Winter War Soviets vs Finland. Soviet goal is to secure northern approaches to Leningrad (which would cost Leningrad dearly 2 years later when the Finns sided with the Nazis to get their land back and 2 million Leningraders died in the seige.... a neutral Finland would almost certainly have allowed food shipments).

Great Patriotic War -- Nazis invade, kill tens of millions of Soviets, along with a significant number of Balts, and anti Soviet Ukranians, and a couple of million Jews. Soviets eventually beat the Nazis, drive them out of the Soviet Union, reconquer Balts (another purge resulted), reconquered the Ukraine (Ukranian Nationalists fought a rebellion until finally crushed in mid 1950s) then once again conquered eastern Poland, then Western Poland plus Czechslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Rumania, and eastern Germany. No question the Nazis deserved what they got, and Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria deserved to be punished for joining the Nazis, but this isn't entirely a black and white situation according to most historians. Czechslovakia didn't deserve its fate though (most abused nation of World War 2, they never got a chance at all from 1938 on, at least Poland got to fight back, although Poland lost a higher percentage of its people).

Soviets put down anti Soviet riots in Eastern Berlin in 1950s. Crush the Hungarians in 1956 (clearly an invasion and blood was shed on both sides), and crush the Czechs in 1968. Attempt to mobilize against the Poles in 1980s and the mobilization basically failed, preventing a Soviet move (perhaps the fact that Reagan, who scared the hell out of the Soviets and for that matter, a lot of other people, had something to do with this as well).

1950s - 1980s Substantial Soviet assistance to client states and friendly neutrals in the form of military and limited economic assistance throughout the world (a huge list by the way).

1979 - 1990 Soviets invade Afghanistan, death toll at one point estimated at roughly 20% of Afghani population, with nearly a third of the Afghani population fleeing to neighboring countries.

also along the way... the Cold War (which thankfully never got to the nuclear stage), clashes with the Chinese in the late 1960s (some reports exist that the Soviets asked the US to help them nuke China and Nixon said hell no, primarily as fall out would have wrecked Japan, South Korea, and eventually not done any favors to North America, possibly concerned about keeping China around as a counterweight to Soviets also a factor, and possibly Nixon though genocide on a 200 million scale (likely death toll) was simply a hidious idea... who can say)

Soviets apparently were suprised by the North Korean invasion of South Korea, but eventually provided substantial military aid to PLA and NKPA

up next, wars of China and others examples of "Liberation"

(by the way, I am not an apologist in any way for Communism, or Socialism, but I like to see accurate facts when I can)

almost forgot.... during the 1991 Gulf War, as the worlds attention was focused on the Mideast, the Soviets attempt to prevent the seccession of the Baltic States using MVD troops and paratroopers... for various reasons this fell apart, and their successful seccession would eventually trigger the 1991 Coup attempt that failed while the world watched, and complete collapse of Soviet Union. What effect US pressure had on this is still not completely determined.

Post break up of the Soviet Union activities are considered seperately, but the only major event that I know of is the long duration conflict in Chechnia.

if we go back to pre World War, the list of Russian wars is considerably longer, but they shouldn't count against the Communists.

the Russian Civil War (1917 beginnings, with continual fighting, purges and bloodletting extending well into the 1920s) killed millions, exactly how many millions is probably too vast to ever be accurately counted with exactness.

China instigated a series of conflicts in the past with India.

Cuba and the fail attempt to overthrow the Bolivian government using fighters trained in Cuba. Cuba send troops to Ethiopia as well around the same time they were in Angola. Everything else was pretty much mentioned. If you look at the same period(1919-1991) the west was involved in fewer invasions with less loss of life.

Post 1990 (disregarding China, for the moment) we see that the US seems somewhat less reticent to operate conventional warfare: and your comment that it is expensive is not really covering the whole issue. During WWII, after all, the US economy improved greatly as a result of waging war. In the end it comes to this: losing a war is (in most cases) expensive, whereas winning a war is (in most cases) lucrative.

This WAS the case sixty years ago. Automation removed many of the job which helped to create an economic boom. Also a war is only profitable if its a total war which requires the entire population to be put to use. More pop usage means more folks working or in uniform and earning a paycheck. This hasnt happened lately. Vietnam wasnt a total war, and neither was Korea and neither of those led to an economic boom. Gulf War occured and then a recession happened. Hell there was a brief recession right after WWII in the US which lasted about four years before things picked up once again.

Communist Chinese Wars...
Chinese Civil War started about 1926 and continued until eventual communist victory in 1949, with brief intermissions and truces between Nationalists and Communists during World War II (even then frequent fighting between the two sides). Death toll... literally impossibly to estimate with complete accuracy as the Japanese killed tens of millions of Chinese as well, but definitely the winner of the worlds most bloody civil war award (making even the Russian Civil War a distant second place winner).

Chinese occupation and conquest of Tibet beginning in 1950, with oppression, flare ups of actually fighting and lots of purges to the present day. Only Chinese excuse is that Tibet was once a client state of Imperial China.

Chinese intervention in Korean War. If Truman had fired MacArthur sooner, might have been prevented (although the political difficulties of that move were hard enough when he actually did it). PRC worried that Macarthur would keep on going past the Yalu, warned the US indirectly (via India) that the US had better stop at 38th Parallel, and then entered the war when US didn't (although UN stated goal at this point was reunification of all of Korea, but then it had changed its war aims after the defeat of the NKPLA invasion). Casualties, probably at least a million PLA soldiers, not counting millions of dead Koreans, and a couple of hundred thousand US, British, and other UN nations casualties. This could arguably be considered a just war on the Chinese part (as they had reasonable concerns based on their history) but both sides seriously miscalculated.

Indo-Chinese War in 1960..... India got its ass handed to it, but the entire matter was over some mountain ridges and valleys of no value other than symbolism. Neither side looks good in this one.

Clashes between China and Taiwan in the 1950s.... could be considered further adventures of the Civil War, but US intervention prevented further fighting and a de facto cease fire that continues (no shots fired by US, or China against US, but substantial Taiwan and Chinese casualties... incidently Taiwan used instead of Nationalist China to avoid confusion).

Chinese support North Vietnam, communist forces in Laos and Cambodia during Vietnam and Indochina War periods.... no direct involvement has been found, although the Chinese did have several thousand advisors in North Vietnam, plus large numbers of construction troops building a railroad during a good part of the late 1960s and early 1970s (a factor also in why the US did not directly invade North Vietnam, which many historians feel probably would have been a US victory)

China supports Pol Pot, North Vietnam (now having conquered SOuth Vietnam) invades Cambodia when large numbers of Vietnamese bodies are found floating down the Mekong from Cambodia and Pol Pot forces cross the border on a number of occasions into Vietnam (so much for Socialist brotherhood). After Vietnam invades Cambodia, China launches an extremely costly invasion into northern Vietnam, gets tangled up in the mountains, and gets thoroughly embarrassed. Pulls back and cease fire arrranged. I will let the reader determine how worthy China's support of Pol Pot was.

Continual saber rattling against Taiwan from the 1950s to the present day.

Border skirmishes with Soviets in the 1960s and 1970s (proving that Socialist nations aren't any more prone to get along than anyone else I suppose).

other Communist wars...
North Korean invasion of South Korea (although both fought frequent skirmishes for much of the late 1940s, which is why the US didn't give the ROK any tanks or much of an air force until after the invasion).

North Vietnam vs South Vietnam, plus North Vietnamese de facto invasion of Laos and Cambodia (Ho Chi Minh Trail was not there by invitation).

Cuban de facto mercenary troops, along with East German mercs and possibly others in Africa throughout the 1960s- 1980s. Funded and supported by the Soviet Union.

Tanzania was essentially a socialist nation when it invaded Uganda (kicking Idi Amin out)... no one complained about that though (who actually got them to do it is something worth discovering, but a minor foot note in history now).

Clashes between South Africa (during the bad old days of 1970s and 1980s) against the 'front line' African states (Angola for one was under socialist rule). Hard to condemn the African states much for this (South Africa wasn't a nice place back then), but they usually got their ass handed to them when fighting the South Africans.

Soviet backed Ethopia and Soviet backed Somalia fought each other in the early 1980s.... which turned out to be absolutely disastrous in the end for Somalia and rough on the Ethopians too (remember Band Aid anyone?)

there may be other examples, but I think that is a pretty thorough list.

I'm not sure we can conclusively compare the two. Capitalism has been around much longer than Communism. There are also many more capitalist countries.

If we're going to look more than 30 years ago, the Soviet invasions of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Persia should count too. (Though the last was a combined operation with the British)
Soviets tried to invade Finland in 1939, but couldn't invade the whole country. In 1940 the Finnish government signed a peace treaty in Moscow in which they gave up some 24 000 km2 to Soviets. Finland remained independent, Baltic countries didn't.

So what about socialist countries then?

So far everyone's been talking about communists... or is that what you meant?

In total, the US has actually been involved in an invasion three times: the invasion of Vietnam, and both Gulf Wars. Other than that, we've been involved in provoked wars (the Japanese bombed us at Pearl Harbor, and Germany responded by declaring war on us; we were supporting our allies in WWI; we were invaded by the British in 1812; the Revolution was a civil war; the Civil War was... etc.). Then again, only Vietnam can really consider unprovoked, since, during both Gulf Wars, we were enforcing UN Sanctions, no matter how many other nations decided to abandon those resolutions in favor of their own political gain. The USSR, alone, however, is guilty of invading every single country you see in Eastern Europe today during WWII, and then failing to return them to sovereignty. The US has never done something such as this, unless you think the Civil War counts.

Ok, I know this thread is about wars by workers' states, but what about the invasion and taking the land from hundreds of American Indian nations ... the invasion of N. Mexico ... Hawai'i ... Puerto Rico & Guam ... all occupied to this day? Also, just because you sign alliances with some other imperialist jackals, or get a corrupt gang like the UN to endorse your invasion, doesn't make it right.

Also, Piero Gleijeses, Conflicting Missions: Havana, Washington, and Africa, 1959-1976, contains detailed information on the Cuban interventions in Angola, Algeria, Zaire, Congo, and Guinea-Bissau. Especially interesting, I think, is that in 1976, Cuba helped the Angolan government put down a Soviet-backed coup attempt.

Last, if you consider the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic a country, it is definitely a socialist country that has been resisting Morocco for years. Not an 'invasion' maybe but then a lot of the examples above don't qualify strictly either.

From: http://www.dromo.com/fusionanomaly/interventions.html

An alphabetical list of USA military and CIA interventions *since* WWII
written and distributed by Anthony Cantrell

1. Afghanistan, 1979-present.
2. Albania, 1949-53.
3. Angola, 1975-80s.
4. Australia, 1973-75.
5. Bolivia, 1964-75.
6. Brazil, 1961-64.
7. British Guiana, 1953-64.
8. Bulgaria, 1990.
9. Cambodia, 1955-73.
10. China, 1945-60.
11. Chile, 1964-73.
12. The Congo, 1960-64.
13. Costa Rica, 1955-71.
14. Columbia, presently.
15. Cuba, 1959-present.
16. Dominican Republic, 1960-66.
17. Ecuador, 1960-63.
18. El Salvador, 1980-94.
19. France/Algeria, 1960s.
20. Germany, 1950-60.
21. Ghana, 1966.
22. Greece, 1947-74.
23. Grenada, 1979-84,
24. Guatemala, 1953-80s.
25. Haiti, 1959-94.
26. Indonesia, 1957-58.
27. Italy, 1947-1970.
28. Iran, 1953.
29. Indonesia/East Timor, 1965-1999.
30. Iraq, 1972-present (supporting Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons against Iran 1980-1988)
31. Jamaica, 1976-80.
32. Korea, 1945-53.
33. Libya, 1981-89.
34. Laos, 1957-73.
35. Morocco, 1983.
36. Nicaragua, 1981-90.
37. Panama, 1969-91.
38. Peru, 1961-65.
39. Phillippines, 1940-50.
40. Seychelles, 1979-81,
41. Soviet Union, 1945-1960.
42. Suriname, 1982-84.
43. Syria, 1956-7.
44. Uruguay, 1964-70.
45. Vietnam, 1950-73.
46. Zaire, 1975-78.

According to my estimates the USA is directly responsible for 12 million human murders over the past 50 years. Additionally, if we look at the neoliberal economic
policies [the modern method of creating Banana Republics] imposed upon Third World countries, the number skyrockets. Subcomandante Marcos of the Zapatista
movement considers this the fourth world war: the so-called "Cold War" was hot in the Third World and is the third, and the neoliberal economic policies backed by
militaries are the fourth.

Also, depleted uranium in Iraq & Yugoslavia, and Agent Orange in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia continue to kill thru childhood lukemia and various cancers. We
have no idea of the effects of chemical and biological warfare being waged on Columbia currently. And this estimate and list doesn't include countries such as
Mexico where the US is supplying weapons and training that repress the populations.

"The United States supports right-wing dictatorships in Latin America, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East ... because these are the rulers who have tied their
personal political destiny to the fortunes of the American corporations in their countries... Revolutionary or nationalist leaders have radically different political
constituencies and interests. For them creating "a good investment climate" for the United States and developing their own country are fundamentally conflicting
goals. Therefore, the United States has a strong economic interest in keeping such men from coming to power or arranging for their removal if they do."

Anthony Cantrell

http://www.uwec.edu/grossmzc/interventions.html

Zoltan Grossman is an Assistant Professor of Geography at the University of Wisconsin- Eau Claire

I've looked at all three of those lists..and I dont even know where to begin to point out the inaccuracies with them. So I'll just start it out with this one, in CIA didnt exist in 1945, so how is they managed to be in Vietnam in 1945? The CIA was created through an act of congress after WWII ended, several years after WWII ended, at the time it was known as the OSS, and even then the OSS operated in Europe.(Easier to get a spy into Germany than into South East Asia).

I could also go on and on including some of which arent invasions, but internal matters not related to the discussion at hand which is invasions by communist/ socialist countries. But if it makes you happy to post inaccurate dribble then fine.

WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.


Nuclear Hawaii? Need I say more?

Wong Cock, is there some reason you couldn't make all of those into one post, and only post the links?

" Last edited by GMC Military Arms : Today at 10:57 AM. Reason: Reformat this horrible mess."


Elsewhere this is called censorship.

However the mess wasn't created by me, rather by the US.

Wong Cock, is there some reason you couldn't make all of those into one post, and only post the links?


Yes.

Yes.

...that reason being?

Soviets tried to invade Finland in 1939, but couldn't invade the whole country. In 1940 the Finnish government signed a peace treaty in Moscow in which they gave up some 24 000 km2 to Soviets. Finland remained independent, Baltic countries didn't.

I know that, but it was an invasion nonetheless.

" Last edited by GMC Military Arms : Today at 10:57 AM. Reason: Reformat this horrible mess."


Elsewhere this is called censorship.

False. The issue is your failure to reformat the text you pasted out of a table in a manner that rendered it legible rather than a series of distorted run-on text blocks that made no sense.

http://www.uwec.edu/grossmzc/interventions.html

Zoltan Grossman is an Assistant Professor of Geography at the University of Wisconsin- Eau Claire

a more balanced look is from a book that came out last year called
THE SAVAGE WARS OF PEACE

a history of ALL US military interventions from the birth of the Republic to 2001 other than the major wars (1812, Civil War, Mexican War, Both World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, Spanish American War)

Many of the incidents.."Marines landed" listed above were actually Marines being sent to provide Embassy Guards (prior to World War II, Marines were rarely permanently stationed at embassies) so I don't think that should really count.

The Banana Republics were not created by the US, but by the locals when the broke away from Spain in the early 19th Century (1819 - 1830 for the most part). The US government did however support United Fruit and other corporate interests using US troops (generally Marines).

Most of the troops vs labor incidents were National Guard troops under State Governor control... so not national policy.

CIA interventions are impossible to verify usually because of secrecy. However, if compared with Soviet activity during the same period I am more than sure that it works out to be about even. The Cold War was the reason behind that, and after that, the War on Terrorism (which goes back to the 1970s).

It's not in the last 30 years, but even so I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it: USSR invaded Hungary in 1956; and someone did mention Czechoslovakia which was invaded in 1968. They were invited into Czechoslovakia - but the inviting was done by 3 rogue members of the politburo who didnt like the reforms the legitimate government were carrying out. Nobody really believed that the Soviets were invited (though the Soviets always claimed it) but when the archives were opened up in the 1990s, it turned out the Soviets were telling the truth for once - and these 3 men were tried (and I believe executed) for treason...

Also, not sure if this counts as an invasion, but Poland was 'liberated' by Soviet troops in 1945 only to find itself under Soviet rule in the same manner as the countries (like Romania and East Germany) which had fought against the USSR. Oh, and some would argue that Poland invaded itself in the 1980s when Jaruzelski declared Martial Law - a condition that, in Poland, is ONLY EVER imposed in times of actual war; probably imposed in a (successful) attempt to stop the USSR invading and making things even worse.

I suppose none of these count as wars, though...

None! Communism has never existed. Sure they call themselves communist, but they are all really eather socialists, or Maoists, stalinests, or lenists calling themselves communist. Communism has never existed.

None! Communism has never existed. Sure they call themselves communist, but they are all really eather socialists, or Maoists, stalinests, or lenists calling themselves communist. Communism has never existed.
yet another thing communism has in common with Santa Claus...