NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42615


A provision in the German welfare system is forcing out-of-work women to chose between taking jobs in the sex industry or losing their unemployment benefits.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42615


A provision in the German welfare system is forcing out-of-work women to chose between taking jobs in the sex industry or losing their unemployment benefits.
roflmao. It's making them get a job dumbass, not a job in a brothel. Blatant flamebait.

roflmao. It's making them get a job dumbass, not a job in a brothel. Blatant flamebait.


I just posted the text as it appeared on the site listing the news. And how is calling me a "dumbass" not a flame?

I just posted the text as it appeared on the site listing the news. And how is calling me a "dumbass" not a flame?

It is flame, and your post wasn't flamebait, but it certainly will draw flaming.

I just posted the text as it appeared on the site listing the news. And how is calling me a "dumbass" not a flame?
Weren't you banned?



Oh, and the fact that you quoted it directly has nothing to do with the fact that it is flamebait...and flamebait draws flames.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42615

A provision in the German welfare system is forcing out-of-work women to chose between taking jobs in the sex industry or losing their unemployment benefits.
What, so you think that people should be just allowed to claim welfare forever?

However, I think you might have a point here. I am in favour of legalised prostitution, but I accept that many women would not want to work in brothels. An exception should be made in cases like these because brothels are not like cornershops or factories.

In this case the Noam Chomsky/Marx argument that "capitalism is slavery" might actually hold some water.

Weren't you banned?



Oh, and the fact that you quoted it directly has nothing to do with the fact that it is flamebait...and flamebait draws flames.


How is a post about a news article a flamebait?

It is flame, and your post wasn't flamebait, but it certainly will draw flaming.
Yes, actually, it is. Deliberate misrepresentation of a situation to incite anger=flamebait.

What, so you think that people should be just allowed to claim welfare forever?

I assure you he does not, but forcing women into the sex industry is a little absurd, don't you think?

What, so you think that people should be just allowed to claim welfare forever?


Meh, I just hope none of your female relatives ever wind up down on their luck.

How is a post about a news article a flamebait?
Don't be obtuse DA. That's like saying posting an article that says "Bush is a two bit whore" isn't flamebait.

Yes, actually, it is. Deliberate misrepresentation of a situation to incite anger=flamebait.



I just posted what part of the article title was.

Yes, actually, it is. Deliberate misrepresentation of a situation to incite anger=flamebait.

It's taken directly from the article. He didn't misrepresent anything.

It's taken directly from the article. He didn't misrepresent anything.
Of a situation...as I said, it doesn't force them to take that job, it forces them to take a job.

Just another good reason to keep prostitution illegal.

Of a situation...as I said, it doesn't force them to take that job, it forces them to take a job.
and often, its the only Job available to them, its not flamebait because you cant wrap your brain around it.

Dude, its World Net Daily. I haven't seen anything from them thats honest.

Of a situation...as I said, it doesn't force them to take that job, it forces them to take a job.

The point of the article is to illustrate that some women are being coerced into taking jobs in the sex industry if it is the only job available.

I assure you he does not, but forcing women into the sex industry is a little absurd, don't you think?
Meh, I just hope none of your female relatives ever wind up down on their luck.
I have read the article and revised my opinion accordingly.

And CSW, despite the fact that this is DA we're talking about, this thread is not a flame, flamebait or anything like that. You could call it misrepresentation but that isn't DA's fault - it's obviously a conservative-slanted site.

Calling someone a dumbass, however, is flaming.

and often, its the only Job available to them, its not flamebait because you cant wrap your brain around it.
Nonsense. There is always another job, its just a matter of how well it pays/hours and such.

Dude, its World Net Daily. I haven't seen anything from them thats honest.

Now THAT may be a valid point.

Nonsense. There is always another job, its just a matter of how well it pays/hours and such.

If an out-of-work woman gets a job offer from a brothel, and she turns it down on moral grounds, she can have her welfare benefits cut off.

If an out-of-work woman gets a job offer from a brothel, and she turns it down on moral grounds, she can have her welfare benefits cut off.



Then turn it down on health grounds. Working in a brothel is NOT good for the health, either physical, mental, or emotional.


These sorts of laws, they are just symptons of the great sickness that has taken hold over the West.

Nonsense. There is always another job, its just a matter of how well it pays/hours and such.
No, East Germany doesn't have a 20% unemployment rate because people aren't taking jobs they like. Its because of something called 'The Economy'

Just another good reason to keep prostitution illegal.
I think that there are many better arguments for legalising it than for banning it.

Prostitution will always happen, whether legal or not. It always has existed and always will.

When prostitution is illegal, STDs run rampant and unchecked, and untreated. This is devastating for the prostitutes and their clients. When it is legal, the workers can be properly checked and treated. This contributes to general health of the population, and removes a drain on the health service.

When prostitution is illegal, violence against women and gangsterism in general is rampant. When it is legal, prostitution becomes like any other industry, where laws on payment and such can be regulated.

When prostitution is illegal, there also tends to be a nasty epidemic of unhealthy drug addiction rather than when it is legal.

Then turn it down on health grounds. Working in a brothel is NOT good for the health, either physical, mental, or emotional.
Normally a society could do that, but with Prostitution fully legal, one could no longer make that claim.

I think that there are many better arguments for legalising it than for banning it.

Prostitution will always happen, whether legal or not. It always has existed and always will.

When prostitution is illegal, STDs run rampant and unchecked, and untreated. This is devastating for the prostitutes and their clients. When it is legal, the workers can be properly checked and treated. This contributes to general health of the population, and removes a drain on the health service.

When prostitution is illegal, violence against women and gangsterism in general is rampant. When it is legal, prostitution becomes like any other industry, where laws on payment and such can be regulated.

When prostitution is illegal, there also tends to be a nasty epidemic of unhealthy drug addiction rather than when it is legal.

Also, it is possible to have prostitution be legal and not have it be forced upon unwilling women like this.

Normally a society could do that, but with Prostitution fully legal, one could no longer make that claim.


Still, having many sexual partners, especially via coercion, is devastating to the emotional health of a woman.


This law is nothing more than thinly coated legalization of rape, under the guise of giving women jobs.


It seems to me the law was written by pimps looking to be able to pressure poor women into sex slavery.

Prostitution will always happen, whether legal or not. It always has existed and always will.
So has murder.

When prostitution is illegal, STDs run rampant and unchecked, and untreated.
Which doesnt happen when its also enforced.
This is devastating for the prostitutes and their clients.
Who are, mind you, criminals.
When it is legal, the workers can be properly checked and treated.
Do you recognize that many women are prostitutes not because they want to but they have to? Many go right back on the streets after being infected.
When prostitution is illegal, violence against women and gangsterism in general is rampant. When it is legal, prostitution becomes like any other industry, where laws on payment and such can be regulated.
Again, not if Prostitution laws are actually enforced.

Still, having many sexual partners, especially via coercion, is devastating to the emotional health of a woman.


This law is nothing more than thinly coated legalization of rape, under the guise of giving women jobs.


It seems to me the law was written by pimps looking to be able to pressure poor women into sex slavery.
No just dense thinking by liberals.

this is discrimination
why arent MEN being forced to take prostitution jobs too?

Because male prostitution is an extremely small industry compared to females.

this is discrimination
why arent MEN being forced to take prostitution jobs too?


The nature of prostitution is such that it seems for men, they often just sleep with rich women and get stuff or get paid for it. There are no real brothels where women go to consort with male prostitutes, at least none I've ever heard of.

this is discrimination
why arent MEN being forced to take prostitution jobs too?

I imagine is not as much of a demand for male prostitutes, so there is no reason to conscript them.

I imagine is not as much of a demand for male prostitutes, so there is no reason to conscript them.
the businesses should be required to take on male apprentices too. and who cares if there arent as many jobs, the law should be equal

surely 20% of all prostitutes are men

This law is nothing more than thinly coated legalization of rape, under the guise of giving women jobs.

It seems to me the law was written by pimps looking to be able to pressure poor women into sex slavery.
No, to legalise prostitution is devastating to violent pimps and clients.

When it is illegal, prostitutes cannot call on the police for protection from violent clients or pimps for fear of being charged themselves.

When it is legal, prostitutes may avail freely of the protection of the police.

Brothels may also hire their own professional security forces, rather than depending on dirty gangster pimps.

1. So has murder.

2. Which doesnt happen when its also enforced.

3. Who are, mind you, criminals.

4. Do you recognize that many women are prostitutes not because they want to but they have to? Many go right back on the streets after being infected.

5. Again, not if Prostitution laws are actually enforced.
1. Yes, but murder is infringement on the rights of other individuals. Consensual solicited sex is not.

2. There is no way anti-Prostitution laws can be enforced fully.

3. So criminals=deserving of diseases? Even if they are criminals they will end up being a drain on the tax-funded health system.

4. Yes, and this happens more when it is illegal.

5. Which is near impossible without having an all-pervasive, omnipresent police force.

No, to legalise prostitution is devastating to violent pimps and clients.

When it is illegal, prostitutes cannot call on the police for protection from violent clients or pimps for fear of being charged themselves.

When it is legal, prostitutes may avail freely of the protection of the police.

Brothels may also hire their own professional security forces, rather than depending on dirty gangster pimps.


1. Yes, but murder is infringement on the rights of other individuals. Consensual solicited sex is not.

2. There is no way anti-Prostitution laws can be enforced fully.

3. So criminals=deserving of diseases? Even if they are criminals they will end up being a drain on the tax-funded health system.

4. Yes, and this happens more when it is illegal.

5. Which is near impossible without having an all-pervasive, omnipresent police force.



To legalize it is one thing, to FORCE unwilling women into this, is disgusting, wrong, and those who involve themselves in it, will surely face the wrath of righteous men in this life, and the wrath of the God in Heaven, in the next life.

the businesses should be required to take on male apprentices too. and who cares if there arent as many jobs, the law should be equal

surely 20% of all prostitutes are men
I think businesses have the right to decide their own hiring policies, and in the case of sex work, sexist discrimination is acceptable.

The idea that the government should force brothels to hire male prostitutes is ridiculous IMO.

To legalize it is one thing, to FORCE unwilling women into this, is disgusting, wrong, and those who involve themselves in it, will surely face the wrath of righteous men in this life, and the wrath of the God in Heaven, in the next life.

I'll agree with that, in not such big letters.

To legalize it is one thing, to FORCE unwilling women into this, is disgusting, wrong, and those who involve themselves in it, will surely face the wrath of righteous men in this life, and the wrath of the God in Heaven, in the next life.
You seem to misunderstand me. I am merely arguing for the legalisation of prostitution. I completely agree that women should not be forced into this line of work.

See post #6 in this thread

The nature of prostitution is such that it seems for men, they often just sleep with rich women and get stuff or get paid for it. There are no real brothels where women go to consort with male prostitutes, at least none I've ever heard of.
the vast majority of the clients of prostitutes of either gender are men.

A primary alledged benefit of the law was to reduce forced prostitution. If the laws about prostitution are changed in order to reduce forced prostitution, and yet are formulated to provide for legally enforced forced prostitution, then clearly the laws are at fault.

How much legal protection this would offer depends on the wording of the legal device that makes prostitution legal. Also it's quite possible that German citizens might have protections stemming from UN and/or European Union Treaties/Conventions/Laws.

A primary alledged benefit of the law was to reduce forced prostitution. If the laws about prostitution are changed in order to reduce forced prostitution, and yet are formulated to provide for legally enforced forced prostitution, then clearly the laws are at fault.

How much legal protection this would offer depends on the wording of the legal device that makes prostitution legal. Also it's quite possible that German citizens might have protections stemming from UN and/or European Union Treaties/Conventions/Laws.



Whatever the case, they will ultimately have the protection of the Lord. I suggest we all say a prayer for the women of Germany and indeed the women around the world, who are pressured, coerced, and often outright forced into this disgusting "industry".




I personally believe, that there is not a single, financially secure, emotionally healthy, and otherwise normal, woman, who wants lots of sexual partners.



As for men, well, there are a number of biological differences, but socially proper men only want one sexual partner as well.



We have seen evidence in the animal world of both cases, animals that stay with the same mate for life, and animals that don't. If we believe that people were better than most animals, then we must accept that monogamy is the only really healthy way to go about a relationship.



But that is a whole other issue, the issue here is what is going on in Germany, I'll say this, "Something is rotten in Deutschland".

Considering the source is the World Net Daily, I think it's worth taking with a few grains of salt.

I agree with legalizing prostitution, but not forcing people to take those jobs. One should be allowed to refuse jobs that conflict with their core values. I wouldn't take a job in the sex trade or a slaughterhouse. Either job would have me suicidal. I suppose maybe I could get out of it for mental health reasons.

But how is prostitution any more degrading than a soul crushing middle management job?

The problem isn't that prostitution is treated as equal to other jobs. It should be.
The problem is that welfare reform forces people to take jobs that they don't want. This is just wrong.
Jobs that you enjoy can enrich and improve life. Jobs that you dislike will eventually cause you to kill all of your coworkers before commiting suicide-by-cop.

Of course, the deeper problem is that jobs exist in the first place. But that's an insane rant for another time.

Okay, this is a charged topic, and has a rather salacious headline, but it's not baiting, so please play nice. Also this isn't just something cooked up by a bunch of nuts. A brief Google News search (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=prostitution+germany+welfare) reveals a few hits:

Berlin job justice: brothel or no benefits (Calcutta Telegraph) (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050131/asp/foreign/story_4318026.asp)
'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits' (UK Telegraph) (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/wgerm30.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/30/ixworld.html)
No job no excuse for turning down sex work (Sydney Morning Herald) (http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/No-job-no-excuse-for-turning-down-sex-work/2005/01/30/1107020262141.html?oneclick=true)

Granted, they all reference the same waitress, so this could be a case of everyone following WND's lead, but dismissing it outright probably isn't a good plan.


But how is prostitution any more degrading than a soul crushing middle management job?Because people view sex as a little more personal than filing, I wager. And I wouldn't be very happy if my fiance, or my mother were to be given such an ultimatum.

Berlin job justice: brothel or no benefits (Calcutta Telegraph) (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050131/asp/foreign/story_4318026.asp)
'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits' (UK Telegraph) (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/wgerm30.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/30/ixworld.html)
No job no excuse for turning down sex work (Sydney Morning Herald) (http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/No-job-no-excuse-for-turning-down-sex-work/2005/01/30/1107020262141.html?oneclick=true)

It's worth noting that all those papers are more than a little right-winged. I'm not going to dismiss it entirely based on that, but it is worth noting.

Oh well, let's invade Germany.

Or maybe just accept prostitution as a kind of service and make it legal, so that prostitutes can enforce the same labor protection as anybody else, like forced labor, child labor, OHSA, etc.