NationStates Jolt Archive

Although everyone is familiar with God's Top Ten list, there are actually 613 commandments found in the book Christians call the Old Testament and Jews refer to as the Tanakh.

I have heard Christians say many times that the Old Testament has been superseded by the New Testament. Yet, Christians keep the Old Testament as part of their Bible and obviously still follow parts of it as the word of God.

So, which parts of the Old Testament don't apply? Which parts do? And where in the New Testament does it give readers the instructions on what to ignore and what to follow?

Which ones of the 613 commandments do the Jews not keep to?

How many christians actualy stick to the top 10?

are two questions i'd like too ask

I think Christians believe that Jesus fulfilled some of the 613. All the commandments related to sacrifice werer fulfilled in him and hence are not necessarry to follow anymore. Then in Acts, G-d specifically tells Peter that the dietary restrictions are no more. Other than that, I think most Christians would have a hard time proving any of the rest of the 613 don't still hold.

just like the rest of the bible, different denominations ignore different commandments. that way we can all pick and choose until we find the denomination that ignores most of the sins we tend to committ ourselves.

just like the rest of the bible, different denominations ignore different commandments. that way we can all pick and choose until we find the denomination that ignores most of the sins we tend to committ ourselves.


so whats the point in the bible if we can pick and choose what to follow?

I think Christians believe that Jesus fulfilled some of the 613. All the commandments related to sacrifice werer fulfilled in him and hence are not necessarry to follow anymore. Then in Acts, G-d specifically tells Peter that the dietary restrictions are no more. Other than that, I think most Christians would have a hard time proving any of the rest of the 613 don't still hold.

Well, I know Peter's vision in Acts can and has been interpreted to mean that god has set aside the dietary restrictions:

About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

However, later in the passage Peter is trying to figure out what this vision from god meant. His interpretation has nothing to do with dietary law:

...Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean...I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right...."

One could chose to interpret Acts to mean dietary laws are set aside, but it certainly does not come right out and say that. In fact the passage gives a pretty clear indication of the meaning of the vision and it has nothing to do with dietary commandments.

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tablets of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them." Exodus 24:12

The talmud explains that the tablets of stone are the ten commandments, the law is the written torah (the five books of Moses), and the commandments are the mishna (the oral law). That thou mayest teach them is probably permission for the writing of the gemaras (additions to the mishna that are basically supplementary information).

The ten commandments and the torah were given to Moses on Mount Sinai and both are already a part of Judaism. Actually, the ten commandments were the only new thing given there. According to the Sages, the torah existed before Moses received it in writing at Mount Sinai, but it wasn't a requirement of Judaism till then.

I don't think I've ever heard of a Christian being obligated to follow any of the teachings from the old testament that aren't stated in the new testament. What I mean by this is if it's in the new testament then you follow it. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

Jesus never fancied himself the figurehead of a new religion. He simply said he was the messiah that Judaism was waiting for and is still waiting for today. Jesus believed that what he preached was a further revelation of Judaism. Most of the Jews disagreed, though for two different reasons. First was power. The religious leaders of the Jews were only tolerated by the Romans because they were able to keep order. If they were ousted, the Jews would rebel. If Jesus's teachings caught on, the religious leaders might be rendered powerless over the population and the Romans would get rid of them. Thus Jesus had to be taken out of the picture. The other, more honest problem was that Jesus didn't fit the criteria of 'the messiah'. Here is what you must do to be the messiah in the eyes of Judaism:

1) Build the 3rd Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28)
2) Bring all the Jews back to Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6)
3) World Peace (Isaiah 2:4)
4) Universal Knowledge of God (the God of Israel) (Isaiah 11:9, Jer 31:33)

Can one assume that Christianity has moved away from Jesus's vision of it? I don't know enough about the religions to make that judgement.

I don't know if I answered your question. All I can say is that the whole situation seems, at first glance, contradictory in Judaism's favor. The old testament is included in Christian bibles because Jesus's teachings were directly based on Judaism. This is because he followed the religion himself. Christians do not follow the rules in the old testament, but the do use it as a reference as to why their laws are the way they are. Extending that line of reasoning, Christians could use the old testament to infer what a Christian should do in a given situation. But that's sort of like following the old testament's rules. Very confusing. If anyone can clear that up I'd be happy to know.

EDIT: I after posting this I did a couple of google searches to try and clear up the issue about the old testament. I knew there had to be a better answer, and there was. It's kind of obvious. I don't know why I didn't think of it. I guess I was right when I used to complain about what a waste of time sunday school was.

The bible can be thought of as a revelation in progress, as I said. What this would mean is that the new testament interprets the old testament. This is an interpretation given by God. It obviously wasn't accepted by the Jewish faith. The old testament can also be referred to as 'the book of the old covenant'. Jesus proposed and gave his blessing to 'the new covenant'. What this means is that the old testament isn't a (completely) archaic source of information. It can be used as a source of wisdom by Christians, but some vague verse from Leviticus should never be used as a counter to something Jesus or Paul talked about in no uncertain terms. I guess what this means is that the old testament can be used as a guide unless the new testament says something about the issue at hand. The new testament is all of the information you need to know as a Christian. The old testament is just fluff.

Mark 12:30 - And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mark 12:31 - And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Nobody is perfect, just work on these two and you'll be ok...

I remember glancing through a Bible for funny verses to repeat and came across a commandment that stated "a women shall not perform witchcraft". This of course implies that witchcraft is possible, and only women cannot perform it?

Is this true? was i reading a prank bible? cuz if it states that, i'm dropping school to find this elusive "witchcraft". Harry Potter will be dust in the wind compared to what i will become...MUAHAHAHA!!

:p

Don't get your hopes up. First you'll have to memorize the Tanach, probably a few apocryphal texts as well, all six books of Mishna, a whack-load of Gemara. Only then will you be able to start learning proper Jewish mysticism.

Don't get your hopes up. First you'll have to memorize the Tanach, probably a few apocryphal texts as well, all six books of Mishna, a whack-load of Gemara. Only then will you be able to start learning proper Jewish mysticism.

I think I'll go play call of duty. :)

One could chose to interpret Acts to mean dietary laws are set aside, but it certainly does not come right out and say that. In fact the passage gives a pretty clear indication of the meaning of the vision and it has nothing to do with dietary commandments.
There was an earlier passage, that allowed it
"And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;"--Mark 7:18

There was an earlier passage, that allowed it
"And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;"--Mark 7:18The first thing I thought when I read that was, "Hey, taken completely out of context this can be seen as a justification for homosexuality not being a sin."

XD true

so whats the point in the bible if we can pick and choose what to follow?
after we've picked and chosen we still have the bible as justification for the stuff we were going to do anyway

Its all faith.

The 613 commandments that you mention are from the laws of Moses. Most aren't really needed anymore, since Jesus said he came to fulfill the requirements of the law. They are guide lines now, more or less. Jesus instead left 2, know G-d and love G-d, and love others as you would love yourself, also read, Serve others as you would serve yourself.

I would take the eating part as being reset back to the time of Noah, where every animal and food can be eaten, because it is sent from G-d, and I think Acts shows the same. It also shows that because G-d provides, don't judge a man clean or unclean, because you don't know what G-d has granted him to follow and do. Goes with that bit about, no man knows the heart of a man except for G-d.

The Bible is a book of interpretations, and one must draw a personal belief off it. Even the Jewish world does this, there are more kosher laws then there are in the bible, because the laws are interpreted to different people, and the concept is G-d will reveal if you seek.

There aren't many commandments we can really do..

Some require that we have our temple and some require that you actually live in Israel.

Minusing those...aside from Charity, Kosher Laws and obeying the Sabbath...there's not really much ... well common ones.

Well there's also Shomer Negiah/Ot :)

But only really religious girls practice that. heheh