NationStates Jolt Archive

im bored so i figured i would start something

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything? people are obviously too dumb to control themselves, however they should have a vote (jsut to keep them quiet) about who sits around deciding the shit thats going on, maybe like every year or 2. then they get in government and do whats best for everyone or they have to go back to their labor jobs. and the government should control businesses as well, i trust the government far more than i trust people worried about their bottom line and put profit over peoples safety and rights. matter of fact, money is pretty stupid, it should jsut be used to interact with other nations for things we cant produce, for what we can produce people here should do it and the government should provide very good living conditions for everyone that does their job. and their should be an extreme emphasis on scientific progression without this lame red tape, there should be some things that are banned, but all this asinine religious reason bans should be done away with: "oh no, they want to use stem cells from fetuses we were going to dump or store indefinately to actually try to further our science field." and more emphasis on conservation and crime control, right now no one wants to be cops because its dangerous and pays shit (especially around here). people can be cops then in my system and have no problem because they will have the best stuff provided by the government and still have a comfortable life because they are doing their designated job. and if people don't do their job they don't get provided for. and we should be tougher and softer on criminals. fuck petty criminals, send them to rehabiliation and education (assuming there are petty crimes because there will be no need for it) then release their asses. if some one goes around killing people and we catch them and know its the guy, fuck staying in prison the rest of their life, just kill their asses, no appeals. and the court system will be monitored to keep out stupid things like retarded lawsutis and stupid appeals that keep people on deathrow forever. and i dont care about no capitlization or bad punctuation, im just ranting, so blow out your ear dumbo.

and who cares about your religion? i dont, you want to teach people go ahead, build your asss some churches and preach to the masses, but if you try to influence the government based on religious ideas or try to get protective laws passed based on your religious ideas, too dman bad, dont care. blow it out your ear, any religious law will be ignored or if created, immediately stricken from the books. no favoring of a particular religion, or religion in general will be allowed: you dont think i should kill murdereers, dont care. dont think i should do stem cell research on fetuses marked "trash": dont care.

Wow, I think it's more like isn't wrong with it. There are fascists, and I repect that they have their own political viewpoints, but god it's frightening.

You trust teh government but don't trust people? :confused:

The people may be, en masse, stupid, ignorant sheep. But I prefer sheep to a political society that think they are better and are corrupt.

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything?

cause that power can be, has been, and will be abused

and the government should control businesses as well

thats been tried and it has a pretty bad track reccord

matter of fact, money is pretty stupid, it should jsut be used to interact with other nations for things we cant produce, for what we can produce people here should do it and the government should provide very good living conditions for everyone that does their job.

thats only going to make you wrok hard enough to not get fired

wheres the incentice to work harder? to innovate? to strive?

but all this asinine religious reason bans should be done away with: "oh no, they want to use stem cells from fetuses we were going to dump or store indefinately to actually try to further our science field."

there are some problems right there

did you stem cells can be harvested from willing adult donners? did you know that so far stem cells taken from dead babies have produced no scientific or medical advances while stem cells taken from adult donners have produced 72?

so if you were in charge of the omnipotent government you would have set back science and pissed off alot of Chrisitans with for no good reason and there wouldn't be anything anyone could do about it

and who cares about your religion?

9/10s of the world's population

i dont, you want to teach people go ahead, build your asss some churches and preach to the masses, but if you try to influence the government based on religious ideas or try to get protective laws passed based on your religious ideas, too dman bad, dont care. blow it out your ear, any religious law will be ignored or if created, immediately stricken from the books. no favoring of a particular religion, or religion in general will be allowed: you dont think i should kill murdereers, dont care. dont think i should do stem cell research on fetuses marked "trash": dont care.

theres another problem, when you really really piss off people with heavy religious convictions they tend to climb into bell towers with high-powered rifles and bom! bang! you've got a revolution on you hands!

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything?people are obviously too dumb to control themselves
What makes you think the government is any smarter at controlling the people?

"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely"
-Lord Acton

the government should control businesses as well, i trust the government far more than i trust people
I shall use another excellent quote again!

"A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them."
P. J. O'Rourke

-Rant on religion
There's a fine line between freedom of religion, and freedom from religion - you've crossed it.

You trust teh government but don't trust people? :confused:

The people may be, en masse, stupid, ignorant sheep. But I prefer sheep to a political society that think they are better and are corrupt.
government with guards works, look at our government, all teh balance crap

9/10s of the world's population


and 80% of those care about your religion in a very unhealthy way.

government with guards works, look at our government, all teh balance crap
Suuure :rolleyes:

If the govt. does everything for you it leads to fascism maybe communism (or light Socialism) and a beurocratic govt.

The government cant control everything....

Economically speaking, the proof is in the pudding. The USSR, once Stalin had stopped trying to kill everyone and died, tried to control the economy centrally while giving wokers job security and high wages. The result was stagnation, poverty and low productivity from a workforce with no incentive to strive, with many goods only available on the black market because the official economy wasn't flexible or organised enough to produce them. Basically, controlling an economy is far too hard for any government to do. It does far, far batter when it controls itself. Modern economies are even more complicated than those of the 1970s, so the government wouldn't have a prayer now.


Oh yeah, and refusing appeals for people sentenced to death is the one of the most illiberal, horrifying distortions of the legal system that you could come up with short of abolishing trials themselves.

cause that power can be, has been, and will be abused

i point at americas system where jackasses get kicked out of it, usualyl in favor of new jackasses but thats why i suggested the voting cycle to be yearly or biyearly


thats been tried and it has a pretty bad track reccord
rather gov control business than vice versa like right now



thats only going to make you wrok hard enough to not get fired

wheres the incentice to work harder? to innovate? to strive?
why is money an incentive? because you can buy things? well if everything is provided for you no need for money ,and if you dont do your job right, you will have everything provided for you taken away. i would think this is self explanatory



there are some problems right there

did you stem cells can be harvested from willing adult donners? did you know that so far stem cells taken from dead babies have produced no scientific or medical advances while stem cells taken from adult donners have produced 72?

so if you were in charge of the omnipotent government you would have set back science and pissed off alot of Chrisitans with for no good reason and there wouldn't be anything anyone could do about it
you know what a point is? you know how to make one? if not look at what you are replying to



9/10s of the world's population
not letting teh world be run by religion? i must question your character then, i dont need some magical omnipotant force to scare me into doing what is right



theres another problem, when you really really piss off people with heavy religious convictions they tend to climb into bell towers with high-powered rifles and bom! bang! you've got a revolution on you hands!
if people want to try and rui na way of life where everything is provided for them and they are allowed to worship as they please by force and death, i presume we will have some martyrs

What makes you think the government is any smarter at controlling the people?

"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely"
-Lord Acton

did you people just skip around and read what you wanted?

people are obviously too dumb to control themselves, however they should have a vote (jsut to keep them quiet) about who sits around deciding the shit thats going on, maybe like every year or 2. if the government doesnt honor this, THEN revolution is required

your next quote is also answered above


There's a fine line between freedom of religion, and freedom from religion - you've crossed it.
explain why freedom from religion is significant? i dont need to be affected by the muslims opinions, and the muslim on the other side of the country doersnt need to be affected by the southern baptists religion. they have the right to practice freely and everyone else has the right to not give a damn what teh religios people think

You trust teh government but don't trust people? :confused:

The people may be, en masse, stupid, ignorant sheep. But I prefer sheep to a political society that think they are better and are corrupt.


Hehe... Or to draw out the analogy:

If we sheep have a choice between ruling ourselves or putting the wolves in charge.... Do I even have to finish that sentence???

;)

If the govt. does everything for you it leads to fascism maybe communism (or light Socialism) and a beurocratic govt.


Gosh, does anyone fancy a spot of 'light socialism' this afternoon? It does wonders for the complexion.

Hehe... Or to draw out the analogy:

If we sheep have a choice between ruling ourselves or putting the wolves in charge.... Do I even have to finish that sentence???

;)
I wouldn't bother, I had a similar discussion with him[/her?] a while back. We went round and round in circles since instead of answering [s]he just repeated what [s]he said.

DID ANYONE READ WHERE I SAID PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE YEARLY OR BIYEARLY

people get to choose who they want to rule them, hell nominate someone you want then everyone can vote, i dont care

im bored so i figured i would start something

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything?
Why would anyone want to live in a dictatorship? The point of politics is to improve people's quality of life. Tyranny does not do that.

and 80% of those care about your religion in a very unhealthy way.

they still care, it still influences their decisions and many of them are still willing to fight for it

people get to choose who they want to rule them, hell nominate someone you want then everyone can vote, i dont care
I did read.

And from what I understand, it boils down to 'people get to choose who they want to control many facets of their lives.

Why would anyone want to live in a dictatorship? The point of politics is to improve people's quality of life. Tyranny does not do that.
of course because the government is in charge of everything its automatically a dictatorship!

im surrounded by halfwits

did you stem cells can be harvested from willing adult donners? did you know that so far stem cells taken from dead babies have produced no scientific or medical advances while stem cells taken from adult donners have produced 72?

I think you have well based assumptions in most of your post but this part caught my eye. You are using that to imply that baby stem cells wouldn't even be usefull to science. How do we know? Many educated people that know a lot more about the subject than any of us here think they CAN be usefull.. There are always 0 'advances' before the first is made and the fact that there are 0 (which could possibly be due to the fact that they are harder to get at this point in time) doesn't mean they are useless.

I did read.

And from what I understand, it boils down to 'people get to choose who they want to control many facets of their lives.
Without the "I choose me" option obviously.

I did read.

And from what I understand, it boils down to 'people get to choose who they want to control many facets of their lives.
well yes, but so?

of course because the government is in charge of everything its automatically a dictatorship!

Yes.

im surrounded by halfwits

Hello pot, I'm kettle.

I think your black.

well yes, but so?
So? It just means you want a different personality in the damn office, compared to any difference in policy

why is money an incentive? because you can buy things? well if everything is provided for you no need for money ,and if you dont do your job right, you will have everything provided for you taken away. i would think this is self explanatory

if people get the same working at an easier job as they do at a harder job do you think any one is really going to do the harder job?

you know what a point is? you know how to make one? if not look at what you are replying to

you suggested something about you new progessive ideal of government that apart from offending alot of people was also just flat out wrong

not letting teh world be run by religion? i must question your character then, i dont need some magical omnipotant force to scare me into doing what is right

what your suggesting is FAR from "not letting the world be run by religion"

I don't see how elections are guaranteed to stop government abuse. We get governments abusing us all the time now, but we have elections. I agree that, if there were elections, it would clearly not be a dictatorship, but it would still be oppressive. Furthermore, if goverments control the press, how could democracy actually work?

But anyway, the main point is that it's economically proven to be a terrible idea. Governments just don't control things better, for the most part, especially when it comes to business.

I think you have well based assumptions in most of your post but this part caught my eye. You are using that to imply that baby stem cells wouldn't even be usefull to science. How do we know? Many educated people that know a lot more about the subject than any of us here think they CAN be usefull.. There are always 0 'advances' before the first is made and the fact that there are 0 (which could possibly be due to the fact that they are harder to get at this point in time) doesn't mean they are useless.

scientists have had embrionic stem cells for four years and they've got nothing

its looking like anything that can be done from embrionic stem cells can be done better with adult stem cells, and it can be done without having to kill anyone

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything? people are obviously too dumb to control themselves...

What, exactly, do you think government is if not people? Individually people are stupid, but when we combine them into a faceless bureaucracy their IQ suddenly jumps?

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything?
Well for starters I haven't read a single post of yours that I thought I could take seriously or that I thought was very well thought out.

If you really think Adam Smith is a useless idealist and his writings were only relevant hundreds of years ago, you aren't very informed about economics.

It sounds to me like you got swept up in all the "I hate the government" jazz and socialism looked cool to you at the time. So you become loyal to it even though you didn't (and still don't) completley understand it.

what your suggesting is FAR from "not letting the world be run by religion"
i dare you explain that

i dare you explain that
Its not a million miles away from how the Catholic Church is run.

Its not a million miles away from how the Catholic Church is run.
i say everyone should have the right to their own religino and worship and the right for no one else to try and influecne the gov with their religion and im oppressing religion? woo, your a nutcase

"i dont get to influence the government" *crys*

What, exactly, do you think government is if not people? Individually people are stupid, but when we combine them into a faceless bureaucracy their IQ suddenly jumps?

Exactly my thought.

People cannot be trusted to run their own lives, but they can be trusted to run the lives of others?

Exactly my thought.

People cannot be trusted to run their own lives, but they can be trusted to run the lives of others?
Politicians are..........special.

i dare you explain that

your insistance that the church bear no viablity in government and your threat than any church interfearence into the government would be struck down

your insistance that the church bear no viablity in government and your threat than any church interfearence into the government would be struck down
oih yes, all religiosu promoting laws are "struck from teh books" very threatening

God, have You EVER HEARD OF FACISM? HOW BOUT COMMUNISM? People need to look at the past of politics and the failures that have been brought upon this world, and be smart enough not to repeat them.

scientists have had embrionic stem cells for four years and they've got nothing

its looking like anything that can be done from embrionic stem cells can be done better with adult stem cells, and it can be done without having to kill anyone

I understand your point about the usefullness of adult stem cells, I've read about some of their contributions myself. Point taken.

I don't know a lot about what embryonic stem cells have contributed, and wouldn't be surprised if there hasn't been anything yet. But does that mean they CAN'T make ANY contributions of ANY kind??

I have read about them healing spinal cord injuries and CURING parkinson's in mice, and it has been used in experiments to repair tissue of the human heart. There is all kinds of stuff all over the place being written by people who are very excited about the possibilities offered by embryonic stem cells.

About HAVING them for four years: you mean they've "possesed" them or that they've "researched" them?... if you are just playing a word game with me on this one I don't appreciate it. I know and I am sure that you know how hot a subject stem cell research in this year 2005- and with such a furious debate over it THAT is one of the reasons that people are slow to research it. There also isn't government funding and THAT can slow the research process. And it is a new field, and THAT can limit the results which have been produced as well.

There are plenty of reasons to be forgiving of the fact that there aren't yet results. And that doesn't mean that there never will be results or that "anything that can be done from embrionic stem cells can be done better with adult stem cells".

Though this is all over a minor point. I agreed 100% with everything else in your post.

God, have You EVER HEARD OF FACISM? HOW BOUT COMMUNISM? People need to look at the past of politics and the failures that have been brought upon this world, and be smart enough not to repeat them.
your a quick one arnt ya

[QUOTE=Conceptualists]You trust teh government but don't trust people? :confused:.../QUOTE]

But isn't that the liberal, and unfortunately the Republican, way? Make people conform to your idea of correct by using the force of government.

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of mostly everything? people are obviously too dumb to control themselves


a little something called freedom............oh, and ever heard of the term 'the bewildered herd'?

You trust teh government but don't trust people? :confused:...

But isn't that the liberal, and unfortunately the Republican, way? Make people conform to your idea of correct by using the force of government.
I'd go futher, I'd say it is just the general statist way to think about government.

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything?

I'm just curious here....when you say 'mostly', what are you excluding? I'm interested to know the few freedoms you would give people if you were in charge.........the freedom of speech? or is that too much?

I'd go futher, I'd say it is just the general statist way to think about government.
Has anyone ever given any serious consideration to the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org/)? They talk a good story, but I have some, okay many, doubts that they could ever pull off more than populating the state with FSP officeholders.

I'm just curious here....when you say 'mostly', what are you excluding? I'm interested to know the few freedoms you would give people if you were in charge.........the freedom of speech? or is that too much?
in charge of business and taking care of people, people can personally do whatever the ydam nwell please lnog as it doesnt infringe on teh rights of or threaten anyone else or threaten the government

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything?

I think I am going to be the first person to quote this line and say in reply, in my opinion, nothing is wrong with it, at least in principle. It would need a lot of safeguards, but the more control to those who the people have the power to elect, the better.

in charge of business and taking care of people, people can personally do whatever the ydam nwell please lnog as it doesnt infringe on teh rights of or threaten anyone else or threaten the government

okay good, sorry, you just didn'tr come actross that way to me

DID ANYONE READ WHERE I SAID PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE YEARLY OR BIYEARLY

people get to choose who they want to rule them, hell nominate someone you want then everyone can vote, i dont care

If people can vote, how do you know they won't vote for a libertarian or religious type candidate, hence ruining your vision from within?

im bored so i figured i would start something

Whats wrong my idea that the government should be in charge of most everything? people are obviously too dumb to control themselves, however they should have a vote (jsut to keep them quiet)

i have to say i agree with you but.... lets face it the idea of a goverment is

'to make people feel there incharge, by 'voting', but not actualy control whats going on'


quote from some one (i'll try to find out who)

i have to say i agree with you but.... lets face it the idea of a goverment is a

'to make people feel there incharge, by 'voting', but not actualy control whats going on'


quote from some one (i'll try to find out who)

People do control what goes on. The reason it so often seems that they don't is so many people are SO BLOODY STUPID!

people are obviously too dumb to control themselves, however they should have a vote (jsut to keep them quiet)

Is it just me, or does this come very close to Stalin's "its not who voted that counts but who counts the votes"

If people can vote, how do you know they won't vote for a libertarian or religious type candidate, hence ruining your vision from within?
because it will be written what the government does and why would they switch from a system where everything is provided to one that would put people out of hoems or change their comfort level for the worst?

if some one goes around killing people and we catch them and know its the guy, fuck staying in prison the rest of their life, just kill their asses

It's easy to say that, and I agree (basically), but would YOU be willing to be the person who kills them? Or would you pay someone else to do it? Imagine you're standing there about to pull the lever on the electric chair, or whatever method you want to use, do you think you could bring yourself to do it? And if the answer is no, then do you think it's right to claim something without the ability to implement it?

People do control what goes on. The reason it so often seems that they don't is so many people are SO BLOODY STUPID!

yes absolutely, some people are stupid emnough to think EVERYBODY THINKS THE SAME BECAUSE TRHEY WALK IN THE SAME DIRECTION SOETIMES

It's easy to say that, and I agree (basically), but would YOU be willing to be the person who kills them? Or would you pay someone else to do it? Imagine you're standing there about to pull the lever on the electric chair, or whatever method you want to use, do you think you could bring yourself to do it? And if the answer is no, then do you think it's right to claim something without the ability to implement it?
lethal injection. like amnesia, but they dont wake up

lethal injection. like amnesia, but they dont wake up

answer my question, would you be willing to inject them?

People do control what goes on. The reason it so often seems that they don't is so many people are SO BLOODY STUPID!



bull.... people control nothing, only there illusion of control. If we control how come, even though the majority of, not all, brittan where aposed to the war on iraq and afganistan it still happened

answer my question, would you be willing to inject them?
i dont have the skills to do it, but yeah. its not grim. wow, you inject them, and they fall out.

bull.... people control nothing, only there illusion of control. If we control how come, even though the majority of, not all, brittan where aposed to the war on iraq and afganistan it still happened

I have to agree with you there Crum......er.......Redy Yellow Flames

i dont have the skills to do it, but yeah. its not grim. wow, you inject them, and they fall out.

would you take blame if you murdered someone, and accept that it's right to be killed for your crime?

yes absolutely, some people are stupid emnough to think EVERYBODY THINKS THE SAME BECAUSE TRHEY WALK IN THE SAME DIRECTION SOETIMES




for every one that doesn't know this person knows me (well i say knows) but they have a habit of laking in the ability to think things that are obvios

for every one that doesn't know this person knows me (well i say knows) but they have a habit of laking in the ability to think things that are obvios

Obvious, or, narrow-mindedly abstract? oh, and at least I can spell ;)

because it will be written what the government does and why would they switch from a system where everything is provided to one that would put people out of hoems or change their comfort level for the worst?

No government can fully bind its successors. There is no federal law in the US that cannot be changed by 2/3 of Congress, and similar things apply in the states, I believe. Having a system that no government could ever change would be a form of tyranny, by a bunch of dead people over the living.


Also, for the third and final time, a more libertarian goverment would not 'change their comfort level for the worst,' because your system is economically dud, and everyone would be poor and miserable.

i have too agree with Chri..... Cressland would you be willing to sentance some one to death on your own hands

yes absolutely, some people are stupid emnough to think EVERYBODY THINKS THE SAME BECAUSE TRHEY WALK IN THE SAME DIRECTION SOETIMES

LOL!!! It's no good, I can't not tell the story. Sorry everyone, this is completly off topic. I just have to tell you that the person who goes hereby the name of Redy Yellow Flame (or something like that), once tried to prove that everyone thinks the same because there were lots of people all walking in the same direction. The fact that this was in the grounds of a school and everyone was going in the same direction because they all had to be going to the same place at the time, didn't occur to him. What an idiot!!
Sorry again, going back to topic now.

'lethal injection. like amnesia, but they dont wake up'

Who cares what method you use to kill them? Based on the rest of what you said when you started this topic, I'm surprised you're pro death penalty.

Obvious, or, narrow-mindedly abstract? oh, and at least I can spell ;)




as he already knows i'm dislecsic (spelt wrong i know) and if he really wants to be a utter piloc let him

Ah, Redy, I was just talking about you!

lol, is it just us three now!?!?

We've scarred off everyone else!

I was just saying to Redy Yellow Flames on msn that I agree wiht him in the sense that everybody was walking in the same direction because they were conforming basically bveyond theuir control, but however,

that is NOT THINKING THE SAME!

those people who are all conforming to the same system still have their own views of other subjects

Pyromanstahn can say things from HIS point of view

but did they HAVE to go in that direction?

DID ANYONE READ WHERE I SAID PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE YEARLY OR BIYEARLY

people get to choose who they want to rule them, hell nominate someone you want then everyone can vote, i dont care
hmmm in the US we vote for congress every 2 years. they spend most of their time raising money for the next election and making sure last times donors get "paid off" in the form of legislation that helps out their interests. then they have a bit of time left over to get pork projects for their districts whether it makes good sense or not

they are almost never voted out of office

why would your system be any different?

Pyromanstahn can say things from HIS point of view

but did they HAVE to go in that direction?

No they didn't, but it doesn't mean they all think the same!!

Conforming=following the crowd

thinking individually=having your own bleiefs

I am going to start a new thread about this thinking the same issue, and we can show Redy that he is WRONG!

even if the fact they were walking in the same direction means they all think the same is true, that still doesn't cover for your original argument on that bright warm sunny breaktime, which was 'EVERYBODY thinks the same'


you get skivers, don't you?

I am going to start a new thread about this thinking the same issue, and we can show Redy that he is WRONG!

tell us what it's called

what ever,


To every one thats still reading this join that thread and see how really petty these people are, by the way i won't bother reading that thread because i really don't care


remember nothing you believe has 100% proof, not even if you belive that nothing has 100% proof it cancles it's self out

Cressland and Redy, leave this thread and join one I have made specifically for this discussion.

tell us what it's called

It's called Conformist thinking. Lol.