NationStates Jolt Archive

Our Father
Who are in bedrocks
Oil is thy name
Thy kingdon we bomb
Thy drilling be done
On earth but can be in water
Give us this day our 500 million barrels
And forgive us as if we miss our targets
As we cannot forgive those who bomb agains us
Americas is the kingdom
After all the power and the glory
To rule forever and ever.

Cheney

Please not this only a joke if you are offended i apolergise (sp?)

*laughs, laughs, and laughs some more*
So true.
:p

I think its interesting that you capitalised Bush but you forgot to capitalise Lord's

I think its interesting that you capitalised Bush but you forgot to capitalise Lord's

That is an awesome point. bush should not be capitalized before Lord. But the joke was good. *giggles slightly then sibmits reply*

my sides they hurt! HAHA I am sueing you for hurting my sides. HAHA

George Bush is not a real Christian.

George Bush is not a real Christian.

mmmmm......how so?

George Bush is not a real Christian.

Please elaborate!

*giggles*

;) Ahh, my laugh for the day. I'm curious as well, though, how is Bush not Christian?

George Bush is not a real Christian.

Agreed. Jesus is just a gimmick for George Bush.
I think back to the debate with Kerry where he mentions praying with some widow in NC to avoid the actual answer to the question.
Not that believing in Jesus actually makes anyone moral in the first place, it's just a chance for him to appease the masses. After 911, lots of people flocked to religion for comfort and a sense of protection.
Tis unfortunate.
I feel no need to elaborate, because anyone who should know something about this probably knows what the Bible says about fruit and how to judge someone.

Agreed. Jesus is just a gimmick for George Bush.


then why do all most all of his policy decisions correspond with those of the Church?

good but change this line

And forgive us as if we miss our targets

to

And forgive us as we hit our allies

You could also do a Bush sermon on the mount. How about 'Blessed are those with the biggest army They shall have the world for their possession.'

mmmmm......how so?
You can't be for war and be Christian.

You can't be for the death penalty and be Christian.

You can't be against the environment and be Christian.

You can't be against helping the poor and be Christian.

You can't be for discrimination and be Christian.

You can't be working for the interests of the rich over the poor and be Christian.

Need I go on? It appears to me that the only issue on which Bush is a Christian is abortion. (Well, assuming that the rumour about his girlfriend in the 70s is not true.)

then why do all most all of his policy decisions correspond with those of the Church?
Because the Church is founded more upon the bigoted principles of St. Paul more than on the tolerant principles of Jesus.

You can't be for war and be Christian.

You can't be for the death penalty and be Christian.

You can't be against the environment and be Christian.

You can't be against helping the poor and be Christian.

You can't be for discrimination and be Christian.

You can't be working for the interests of the rich over the poor and be Christian.





lets face it (and i know this may piss some people of) but thats talking like 75% of the Christians
(sorry but it's got to be said)

You can't be for war and be Christian.

You can't be for the death penalty and be Christian.

You can't be against the environment and be Christian.

You can't be against helping the poor and be Christian.

You can't be for discrimination and be Christian.

You can't be working for the interests of the rich over the poor and be Christian.

You can be all of those things and still be a Christian. The only neccessity for being a Christian is to believe that Christ is the son of God. You are simply saying that those are issues where George Bush goes against what, in your opinion, the majority of Christians agree with.

Isn't being against the environment a christian thing? After all, don't most christians believe god says that this world is meant to be reaped of its resources, etc?

Isn't being against the environment a christian thing? After all, don't most christians believe god says that this world is meant to be reaped of its resources, etc?
Yeah, but they're also called by God in Genesis to be "stewards of the earth" or some such thing.

lets face it (and i know this may piss some people of) but thats talking like 75% of the Christians
(sorry but it's got to be said)
Maybe 75% of American "Christians" think that. Most Christians in my country and probably Europe and the world in general do not.

Isn't being against the environment a christian thing? After all, don't most christians believe god says that this world is meant to be reaped of its resources, etc?
Not according to my Christian friends. Jesus said that the earth should be cherished and cared for.

George Bush is not a real Christian.

Nor was Jesus, for that matter.

Well here it is,
Christianity, in many cases, is against UNJUST wars. JUST wars are acceptable.
Not all of Christianity believes the death penalty to be immoral.
Your idea of how to achieve social justice might be DIFFERENT from what Bush thinks, but that does not necessarily make either of them wrong.
And point out one policy of discrimination Bush has, I dare you.

lets face it (and i know this may piss some people of) but thats talking like 75% of the Christians
(sorry but it's got to be said)

Agreed.

I also agree that, in principle, you can't be any of the things Swimmingpool came up with and still be Christian... but only in principle. Nowadays I think there are a number of Christians who are for war and against the environment, etc. In my mind, there's the original idea of Christianity, and the modern, warped version. Original Christians are exactly as Swimmingpool says; modern Christians are far more... Christian only in name and twisted values.

Am I making any sense? I've a wee head cold, and my thoughts are a wee bit muddled.

You can't be for war and be Christian.

You can't be for the death penalty and be Christian.
You can't be against the environment and be Christian.
You can't be against helping the poor and be Christian.
You can't be for discrimination and be Christian.
You can't be working for the interests of the rich over the poor and be Christian.

Because the Church is founded more upon the bigoted principles of St. Paul more than on the tolerant principles of Jesus.

I know what your mean. But there are always exceptions (except war) in Christianity. There are some biblical figures that didn't help the poor but God made them into famous people... Wow! I was about to go to the old testament to support my argument. My bad.

A Christian is someone who believes Jesus died for the worlds sin so we can all have a relationship with God. The significance of Jesus rising from the dead should make Christians believe that we shouldn't fear death.

When Jesus rose He gives us an understanding what a Christians job is in the world: preach the Good News and to walk in His footsteps to live a life to God.

In other words, save as many people from going to hell as possible out of Love. Love the ones who are broken and lost, love your enemies who are against you etc. Bring hope to your friends and family and others around you.
For when anyone is down or gives up fighting against you, they'll approach you and want to know what it is that you have that is so amazing.

Now I always believed G.W.Bush wasn't a Christian. But I don't know his heart. If he knew what he does is wrong then he isn't Christian. If he believes what he is doing is right than he is Christian (but probably an immature one).

Because he is in such power, its easy for us to judge by his actions.
God will be the judge when George dies. He's either going to hell or going to Heaven.

---

BTW. Although I'm Christian I have been up there with the radical groups and have attended and helped support every single student protest under the sun against the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars. I've always loathed power and its scandals. I have been against Bush since his speech on 911.

www.fromthewilderness.com
This site is a good source of information as to why I'm also aginst him.

I know what your mean. But there are always exceptions (except war) in Christianity. There are some biblical figures that didn't help the poor but God made them into famous people... Wow! I was about to go to the old testament to support my argument. My bad.

A Christian is someone who believes Jesus died for the worlds sin so we can all have a relationship with God. The significance of Jesus rising from the dead should make Christians believe that we shouldn't fear death.

When Jesus rose He gives us an understanding what a Christians job is in the world: preach the Good News and to walk in His footsteps to live a life to God.

In other words, save as many people from going to hell as possible out of Love. Love the ones who are broken and lost, love your enemies who are against you etc. Bring hope to your friends and family and others around you.
For when anyone is down or gives up fighting against you, they'll approach you and want to know what it is that you have that is so amazing.

Now I always believed G.W.Bush wasn't a Christian. But I don't know his heart. If he knew what he does is wrong then he isn't Christian. If he believes what he is doing is right than he is Christian (but probably an immature one).

Because he is in such power, its easy for us to judge by his actions.
God will be the judge when George dies. He's either going to hell or going to Heaven.

---

BTW. Although I'm Christian I have been up there with the radical groups and have attended and helped support every single student protest under the sun against the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars. I've always loathed power and its scandals. I have been against Bush since his speech on 911.

www.fromthewilderness.com
This site is a good source of information as to why I'm also aginst him.

You made my night. I usually argue against religious values, but in this case, I have all reason to see the positive.

Thank you.

You can be all of those things and still be a Christian. The only neccessity for being a Christian is to believe that Christ is the son of God. You are simply saying that those are issues where George Bush goes against what, in your opinion, the majority of Christians agree with.

The thing is, Christianity attracts sinners. So they are still the same people, they're just under a different title. But since the Church's roll has changed in America to be more entertaining and to be more ' I'll tell you what you want to hear', there are MANY immature Christians.
---
If one of your family members were trying to become president, EVERYONE in your family would back them up and help them try to be there best to be president.

Its the same with Christianity. Unfortunately there is a large majority of immature Christians over there and there are a lot of pastors who have slandered the bible so that many people could conform to the New World Order.

So if you have immature Christians following an immature Christian president, then doesn't that sound unhealthy? I can't judge those Christians hearts individually and I have no idea what God's thinking about them, but when they pass away- they will be judged to go to Heaven or Hell.

The only neccessity for being a Christian is to believe that Christ is the son of God.
Thats it? Nothing else?
If you believe that Christ is the son of God, wouldn't it be foolish if you don't read what he says to the world? Or even believe or obey what he says? Or to try to live a way like Christ in helping others?
I know some Moslem who believe that Jesus was the son of God. But they still believe the teachings of Mohammad and follow what he teaches. See the difference?

And point out one policy of discrimination Bush has, I dare you.
This is too easy.

"Defense of Marriage Act"

I also agree that, in principle, you can't be any of the things Swimmingpool came up with and still be Christian... but only in principle. Nowadays I think there are a number of Christians who are for war and against the environment, etc. In my mind, there's the original idea of Christianity, and the modern, warped version. Original Christians are exactly as Swimmingpool says; modern Christians are far more... Christian only in name and twisted values.
I think that most Christians are pretty faithful to the original ideals. Don't judge all of them by the American Republican-type fundie Christians.

I kow plenty of Christians who are socialist and to the left of me (i'm not socialist, see my sig). It confuses me that in America and even in Europe Christian groups have more association with free-market politicians. They should be natural allies of the left, when you consider what a communist Jesus was.

Maybe 75% of American "Christians" think that. Most Christians in my country and probably Europe and the world in general do not.


Not according to my Christian friends. Jesus said that the earth should be cherished and cared for.


Where in the bible does Jesus talk about us caring for the Earth? Do you not remember God telling Adam that basically the world is his to do with as he pleases, to be a master over the beasts, fish, and insects?

BTW. Although I'm Christian I have been up there with the radical groups and have attended and helped support every single student protest under the sun against the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars. I've always loathed power and its scandals. I have been against Bush since his speech on 911.
I find your use of "although I'm Christian" interesting here, as if you are saying that normally being Christian mean you can't be left-wing or anti-war.

Jesus would not be on the left, considering they do sort of support abortion, handouts to the poor instead of actually helping them! Jesus wouldn't be on any side or any government, because he was God in human flesh.

This is too easy.

"Defense of Marriage Act"




It is not Discrimination. Read the whole thing please!

You should remember that according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin. Jesus would not support gay marriage, as it sort of goes against his Fathers' laws.

You are allowed to wage war against evil and still be a Christian.

Psalm 144:1
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

1 Timothy 1:18
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

Jesus would not be on the left, considering they do sort of support abortion, handouts to the poor instead of actually helping them! Jesus wouldn't be on any side or any government, because he was God in human flesh.

You're right! Jesus would be political but He'd be on neither side.
If you read the entire bible from start to finish you'll realise that love was thrown out the door when man chose to turn away from god and eat from the tree of good and evil. They preferred leaders and the law rather than God himself.

If Jesus got involved into politics (as he was) he would not take a side, otherwise he'd be going against his teachings. He would take his own political stance in helping others. There is no way he'd debate with man or side with man's politics in 'we are right, they are wrong'.

Jesus is all about relationship, not about being right or wrong (division).
How many relationships go down the drain because of self-righteousness?
I just wish more Christians would focus on the core-components of acting out of love then being 'we are right you are wrong' with the rest of the world.

Johnny Wadd, being socialist does not necessitate supporting abortion! Do you not remember Jesus breaking up the loaves and fishes and redistributing them to 5000 people? His constant preaching about giving all your possessions away to the poor? His anti-rich ideas? See in particular Acts 4:32-35. Practically a Marxist tract.

Genesis commands that humans are stewards of the earth.

lets face it (and i know this may piss some people of) but thats talking like 75% of the Christians
(sorry but it's got to be said)
Agreed, many conservative American Christians are pro-war, pro-execution, etc. They are really only Christian in name though, as the basis for their religion is on a person who was a pacifist.

It is not Discrimination. Read the whole thing please!

You should remember that according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin. Jesus would not support gay marriage, as it sort of goes against his Fathers' laws.

Reading Leviticus per chance? Those passages are taken out of context. Those laws applied then. Look at what Jesus says about law in the New Testament. He taught us two new laws that fulfilled every other law in the old covenant.

These two laws are: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. and You should love your neighbour as yourself. There is no other
commandment greater than these.
So if I can get married- I don't know why gays can't. If God loves us that much that he lets us do whatever we want, what right do we have to say that God won't allow gay people to be married?

Those rules or commandments were given to us just so that we don't get confused. They were given to us to give us some direction and make us prosper. Sin has polluted the commandments and now those rules are deconstructing peoples lives- not constructing peoples lives
So treat your neighbour the way you'd like to be treated. I enjoy my freedoms, why can't gay people enjoy their freedoms? They are not hurting anyone.
You should remember that according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin.
Now God hates sin and I see homosexuality as a sin. But what can I do about it?
It's not my job to tell these people what they are doing is wrong. Its up to their own hearts to know if its wrong or up to God to talk to them. The only thing I can do for them is pray that they'll find Christ. (I can only see religion as a cure to this type of self-indulgence)

If they do find Christ, its up to them to change. And its up to them to seek help. One of my close friends is gay, but love is patient. One day she'll question if this is what she wants to have for the rest of her life. And I have to respect her decision. We all have to respect these people's decisions.


You are allowed to wage war against evil and still be a Christian.
Psalm 144:1
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
Thats the Old Testament! And Psalms is a book full of songs of praise!

*gets bible*
Mine says:
Praise the LORD, my protector! He trains me for battle and prepares me for war!
That sounds like he is singing about God preparing him to take on the spiritual battle. Not a battle where you kill people in the flesh.
I could be wrong.
But it does sound like he is declaring what the Lord will do for him and his people.

If it is about warring with the flesh- observe he called Lord 'my protecter' not 'my agressor'.

1 Timothy 1:18
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

mine says this: 'Timothy, my child, I entrust to you this command, which is in accordance with the words of prophecy spoken in the past about you. Use those words as weapons in order to fight well,'

Now to use words as weapons is to take on spiritual warfare. Thats the only war Christianity is fighting in, not wars in the flesh.

Our Father
Who are in bedrocks
Oil is thy name
Thy kingdon we bomb
Thy drilling be done
On earth but can be in water
Give us this day our 500 million barrels
And forgive us as if we miss our targets
As we cannot forgive those who bomb agains us
Americas is the kingdom
After all the power and the glory
To rule forever and ever.

Cheney

Please not this only a joke if you are offended i apolergise (sp?)
:D:D:D:D:D:D

I find your use of "although I'm Christian" interesting here, as if you are saying that normally being Christian mean you can't be left-wing or anti-war..

Lol.
The use of the word 'although' was only used to say I'm not like the ones that are for Bush.
eg.
I'm not your stereo-typical Christian that waves a little flag and smile because I have no idea whats going on.

Although I'm 'what people consider an airhead Christian' I have been up there with the radical groups and have attended and helped support every single student protest under the sun against the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars. Therefore I'm not your stereo-Christian.
make sense?
I'm pretty bad with english.

I'm actually Green at the moment! My political stance will change over time, however. I just try and look at the party that offers more positive change in the world. I do not support parties that promote fear, division, hate and deceit. And let me just say I go to a right-wing church :rolleyes: .

Reading Leviticus per chance? Those passages are taken out of context. Those laws applied then. Look at what Jesus says about law in the New Testament. He taught us two new laws that fulfilled every other law in the old covenant.

These two laws are: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. and You should love your neighbour as yourself. There is no other
commandment greater than these.
Now God hates sin and I see homosexuality as a sin. But what can I do about it?
It's not my job to tell these people what they are doing is wrong. Its up to their own hearts to know if its wrong or up to God to talk to them. The only thing I can do for them is pray that they'll find Christ. (I can only see religion as a cure to this type of self-indulgence)

If they do find Christ, its up to them to change. And its up to them to seek help. One of my close friends is gay, but love is patient. One day she'll question if this is what she wants to have for the rest of her life. And I have to respect her decision. We all have to respect these people's decisions.



mine says this: 'Timothy, my child, I entrust to you this command, which is in accordance with the words of prophecy spoken in the past about you. Use those words as weapons in order to fight well,'



Are you saying the 10 commandments mean nothing to Christians? Remember that Jesus did tell the people to follow the laws of Moses!

Yes God hates sin. You can never know Christ as long as you keep on with your evil ways. You have to be totally repentent in order to receive him. You cannot be a proud gay and expect to find God's love. Pride in anything is a sin. You have to accept the word of God to be saved, and live by it in order to be saved. You have the duty to try to talk to a sinner in order to try to save them. Yes a person has to make their own decisions as we all have freewill.

I don't know which bible you use!

tl;dr

People sure do love arguing over ther internet.


Internet is serious business indeed.