NationStates Jolt Archive

I've never really understood the whole Satan story, but it seems to me that Satan is far less powerful than God, so why do you Satan worshippers back the losing side?

Pfft...You actually believe that crap? Satan is considerd the Prince of lies. So when it seems he's less powerfull thats exactly what he wants you to think.

Pfft...You actually believe that crap? Satan is considerd the Prince of lies. So when it seems he's less powerfull thats exactly what he wants you to think.

Exactly. That's why "God" makes no sense.

Pfft...You actually believe that crap? Satan is considerd the Prince of lies. So when it seems he's less powerfull thats exactly what he wants you to think.
Unless he really is less powerful. How would he organize hell if he only told lies? And if he's MORE powerful than God, then why hasn't he taken over heaven and earth yet?

And if he's MORE powerful than God, then why hasn't he taken over heaven and earth yet?

Who's to say he hasn't? Again, that's why "God" makes no sense.

Unless he really is less powerful. How would he organize hell if he only told lies? And if he's MORE powerful than God, then why hasn't he taken over heaven and earth yet?
Cause he's "evil". That makes him lazy. Sloth.

Satan is like Hitler.

He can sound powerful, but in the end he really isn't. I guess.

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/1245/chupathingy5zz.png

I think that if there is a God, and an "anti-God", they're probably two halves of the same thing. Just like everyone else in the universe.

It's a moot point, since neither God nor Satan exist. And i have to say that if an entity called "Satan" did exist, I couldn't argue about his nature, since everyone would disagree about what is really meant by Satan. Although I will admit that God et. al. is a useful metaphor in a lot of circumstances.

Most of the Satanists I know of don't believe in the Christian bible...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm#menu

I've never really understood the whole Satan story, but it seems to me that Satan is far less powerful than God, so why do you Satan worshippers back the losing side?
Do you think most people are going to heaven or to hell?

From what I've heard of satanism, it really has more to do with believing in yourself and the people around you as gods.

Ever heard the phrase: 'The Devil can cite scripture, when it suites him'?
Thereby, Satan CAN tell the truth, when he wants to, and put his own little spin on it, producing the arguement that since he frequently lies, he is in fact NOT telling the truth that he is less powerful than God, or more powerful, or whatever.
I have confused myself. Damn.
Anyway...
Satan isnt constrained by rules, those who think he is clearly dont know the nature of evil.

Ever heard the phrase: 'The Devil can cite scripture, when it suites him'?
Thereby, Satan CAN tell the truth, when he wants to

Since when is scripture truth?

Unless he really is less powerful. How would he organize hell if he only told lies? And if he's MORE powerful than God, then why hasn't he taken over heaven and earth yet?

Satan lives by the deadly sins, taking over Earth would take alot of effort and he is lazy, anyways, he already has dominion over Earth, why risk incuring Yahweh's wrath by invading.

Besides Satan and Yahweh are in a symbiotic relationship, they both know they need the other, if they can't scare people on to one of their sides they might start using science to explain things or *gasp* become Buddists.

Pfft...You actually believe that crap? Satan is considerd the Prince of lies. So when it seems he's less powerfull thats exactly what he wants you to think.

So is Satan more powerful than God?

Satanism is little more than secular humanism. Pick up a copy of the Satanic bible at Waldenbooks, Barnes and Noble, or Borders. It's actually a rather interesting read.

satanism is not the worship of satin. They dont belive in God or the Devil. They only called it satanism to throw it in the face of christians

satanism is not the worship of satin. They dont belive in God or the Devil. They only called it satanism to throw it in the face of christians

I'd argue that they call it satanism because they want attention.

This is part of a wider problem where people like a label so much that they distort it's meaning to fit their own ideals.

Like how "anarchy" means two radically different things and communism has about 500 different flavours.

And aslo because satan means "accuser"/"opposistion".

Unless he really is less powerful. How would he organize hell if he only told lies? And if he's MORE powerful than God, then why hasn't he taken over heaven and earth yet?

How would Bush organize the U.S. if he only told lies.. He's done pretty good so far :)

I think that if there is a God, and an "anti-God", they're probably two halves of the same thing. Just like everyone else in the universe.

I was 5 years old, had been given a lecture about the omnipotence of God and it just didn't make sense to me why Satan existed if God was all powerful. I decided they were the 2 sides of the same coin. I'd never heard of any eastern beliefs.
So, 5 years old, I get this. It makes sense. Organized religion stopped making sense to me after that. I don't like being opiated.

I'm assuming that you guys are talking about worshiping "Satan" as the evil entity that tortures comdemned souls as is taught in christianity

(There is many religions calling themselves satanism i.e.church of satan,wich is completly different)

Ok, so, having established that, well, I agree.

Why back the losing side?

"Well, he's not the losing side!" the little pimple faced white kid said.

Well, seeing as you do worship the satan as taught about in the christian scripture, it is blatantly obvious.

Samuel(satan) was thrown from heaven, against his will. Yes, he wanted to stay, yet he couldn't. Therefore, he is weaker than god, and cannot beat him.

Were he stronger, than he would obviously done what he wanted, replaced god.

"But he shall become stronger through my losserish self mutilation and chanting and dressing up in costumes!" said white kid.
(Excuse my poor grammar)

Well, if this were true, than god, having at least enough smarts to put that together, would take his motherfucking ass out.

But wait! If god did not like him, why not just kill him even if he were not to become stronger! I mean, he stronger!

Well, I think that perhaps,(now, this is all assuming the teachings of the christian scriptures are true)

Perhaps, yes, Samuel done fucked up, god punishes him. And yet, Satan lives. And so, god wants him alive. But why?

Well, the most sensical reason would be that Satan does not work against god. Satan, with his hell, is like gods jailer. People piss of god, Satan fuck'em up. There a team.

Now, but then, why, do all the little white children worship satan?

Because, modern humans, it is seen, that they like to belong. They like to have identity, they like to have a purpose and be part of something.

The do this for the same reason american kids become communists, facists, nazis, join the KKK. They pretend that they belive in such things, but in truth, whitey likes to belong.

So, go ahead! Have fun! Do what you will! As long as your not out with your little assed sacraficial knives all trying to cut people up, can it really hurt? Course not, let them have there clique.



Now, you know though, now that I think of it, it is much more likely that the christian concept of satan was cooked up in combination of suspision, and the catholic clergy to terrorize and keep hold on the public.

Of course, by the time I post this, you guys will have said all of this and more, plus a bunch of things to counter these arguments. Sorry about that.

satanism is not the worship of satin. They dont belive in God or the Devil. They only called it satanism to throw it in the face of christians


The church of Satan-The largest group by that name, can be found in the weastern united states and in England, numbering about ten thousand members in all.

The whole jist of it is the glorification and endorsement of shameless self indulgence, manly sexual, (the members screw each other ALOT) as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Not violent or anything like that. Dogma is essentially the ultimate "you only live once" mentality.

They worship "Satan" as a vague, neutral force of nature.

Not really a bad bunch, and bit selfish. Have been know to hold "Black Masses" in which they pretend to worship the christian satan, but this is just for a huge laugh. They do it to make fun of christians who mock them, and for attention.

Not really a bad bunch, just a bit self centered.



Now, there is the other, middle class white kid worship of the christian satan phenomenon.

In a nutshell, a couple crazy guys thought satan was real, every once in a while one crazy guy busts, kills some people. Poor guy, too bad doctor not find out about his problems when he was young. A sad story.

But, these type things, all the middle class white kids all be being force fed christianity, and so, start to pretend to worship christian satan as an evil god type thing that rewards annoying Alexander-I mean, evil......

1.The ultimate teenage rebelion against there deeply religious parents.
2.Belonging to a group, having purpose and indentity.
3.Because the other kids make fun of them, and makes them feel as though"Ohhhh, when I'm in hell and satan's right hand man, I'll give that bully such a beating....."


And, that's what I gather from it.

That's the abbriviated version anyhow.

And bear in mind, there are about twenty different religions with a good deal of members who label themselves satanic, but with all different shit, damn confusing fuckers......

Aye to the view on Church of Satan satanists. Heck, read their book. It's a much more pleasant moral concept than the Bible. Don't do unto others UNLESS they do unto you, and so forth.

It should also be noted that, while many people involved don't follow the rules (salad bar theism, bah), the Satanic Bible, from what I've been told (I'm an English major, I only have so much time for EXTRA reading, heh), also has a notion of respecting your body and your friends. Supposedly, the writer of said book only took a mistress because his wife allowed it, and was generally upset at the way some of the members treated their bodies, particularly Marilyn Manson, whom was largely kept around for celebrity's sake.

Really, its just a bunch of atheists, some whom have religious beliefs (mysticism and such), who follow a hedonistic, non-aggressive philosophy, and who like to razz the Christians once in awhile.

Now, there's nothing very useful in the group. But they're much less harmful than most groups.

If it were up to democrats, Satan would be seen as a minority in the religious world--Being persecuted by the millions (maybe billlions) of God worshippers who don't give equal opportunity, or in this case worshiptunity to Satan. Therefore the democrats would issue a tax on prayers to God, or Allah, or one of the more popular deities, and would channel the funds to help lesser known idols like Satan, Elvis, and the Pilsbury Doughboy. Thank you democrats for always looking out for the little guy!

Well now, arn't we smart!


Maybe you didn't notice, Crackerjack, but the democrats have been in office in the eighties and then nineties, several times, in fact, and have done no such thing. Now, why would they do it now?

In fact, why would anyone do something so blatantly unorthodox and unpopular, eh? Maybe....Oh! Because you don't like them! Of course! They'll listen to YOU! Why didn't I think of that?


Oh, but wait, how will they circumvent the good ol' constituition? Well, wait, Bush did it......

Since when is scripture truth?


For simplicities sake, we are assuming that the scripture is truth.

If the scripture is in fact not true, then Satan in the sense that we are discussing him does not exist at all.

As I mentioned before, assuming the teaching of the christian scripture are true.

Satan lives by the deadly sins, taking over Earth would take alot of effort and he is lazy, anyways, he already has dominion over Earth, why risk incuring Yahweh's wrath by invading.

Besides Satan and Yahweh are in a symbiotic relationship, they both know they need the other, if they can't scare people on to one of their sides they might start using science to explain things or *gasp* become Buddists.


Not Bhuddists!


Actually, I saw the Dhali Lama once. Very funny guy.

As far as I know, neither god nor satan do anything themselves in the life of
people. (Im no theologist, but i thinkt is has something to do with indeterminism)
So it doesn't matter, who of the two would be stronger, if they did something.
All that is done is done by humans.
Are the good guys the winning side or the bad guys? - and girls of course.
Is this world we live in more llike heaven or more like hell?
I'd say, this world is hell, mostly.
But I'm no theologist. So you tell me

God is more powerful than Satan except Satan has incredible influence and arouses temptation when it comes down to effecting humans.

From what I've heard, Satanists worship Satan because he was cast down by God and they believe that he was treated unfairly. Kind of like going for the underdog.

God is more powerful than Satan except Satan has incredible influence and arouses temptation when it comes down to effecting humans.

From what I've heard, Satanists worship Satan because he was cast down by God and they believe that he was treated unfairly. Kind of like going for the underdog.



Perhaps some of the older, less annoying yankee ones, but I still believe that my theory makes more sense and is truer, for America and Canada anyhow.

But what do I know?

God is more powerful than Satan except Satan has incredible influence and arouses temptation when it comes down to effecting humans.

From what I've heard, Satanists worship Satan because he was cast down by God and they believe that he was treated unfairly. Kind of like going for the underdog.

I don't believe in a physical Satan. Satan is the battle we have inside of ourselves over the choices between good and evil.

I don't believe in a physical Satan. Satan is the battle we have inside of ourselves over the choices between good and evil.

Good thoughts about the matter.

I don't believe in a physical Satan. Satan is the battle we have inside of ourselves over the choices between good and evil.

Yah, but where talking about the worship of the Satan as talked about in the Christian scriptures, and assuming that he exists.

Has anyone here read J.B., by Archibald MacLeish? It espouses an interesting system where God is a blind, uncaring creator, and Satan sees man's follies and pain and urges him to find a way out of it. That's a drastic oversimplification, but the book is worth reading--besides, it's beautiful poetry:

Blow on the coal of the heart.
The candles in churches are out.
The lights have gone out in the sky.
Blow on the coal of the heart
And we'll see by and by...

I'm not a Satanist myself, but it seems that book might provide some food for thought.

Yah, but where talking about the worship of the Satan as talked about in the Christian scriptures, and assuming that he exists.

I think you mean as has been interpetated in the Christian scriptures. There is another interpetation that I believe makes much more sense.

I've never really understood the whole Satan story, but it seems to me that Satan is far less powerful than God, so why do you Satan worshippers back the losing side?
The losing side? In this imaginary war? I'm an atheist and I don't think that God or satan exists. Most "Satanists" are just either hedonists or rebellious young teen atheists trying to annoy their parents.

The losing side? In this imaginary war? I'm an atheist and I don't think that God or satan exists. Most "Satanists" are just either hedonists or rebellious young teen atheists trying to annoy their parents.

Yes, yes, I already established the rebelious cracker kids, but we have also established that the discussion is to be carried out in the assumption that the christian scripture is true.

No one really cares that your an atheist, and I write that not to be offensive, but it seems to me more and more "atheists" are exactly like the little white satanists, desperatly grasping at attention.

Now, see, two a my cousins, two nice guys, right, not flawt there atheism.

Don't do that, makes you exactly like......Jamaicans.....

The losing side? In this imaginary war? I'm an atheist and I don't think that God or satan exists. Most "Satanists" are just either hedonists or rebellious young teen atheists trying to annoy their parents.
Aethiest, eh? Well when you die you'll find out that Satan is real as he makes you stand in flaming worms for eternity.[/crasy fundamentalist christian rant] Really what we're discussing here is the whatever mythology is called when it's true of Satan. We are also discussing why Devil worshippers would worship the guy who won't win. My theory is (and I haven't done much research) that God banished Lucifer to Hell after the rebellion along with the angels that sided with him. Lucifer got pissed. God then creates the physical universe and eventually we all evolve from apes. God banishes evil humans to Hell just as he did with Lucifer. Those people suffer because a) Hell sucks and b) Satan and his demons like to torture them. Satan wants worshippers just to spite God.

From what I've heard, Satanists worship Satan because he was cast down by God and they believe that he was treated unfairly. Kind of like going for the underdog.
Not really, at least not most of the major groups.
Religious Satanism:
This religion recognizes Satan, generally as a life principle. Followers are usually serious adults, although a few are mature teenagers. Of the many main traditions which exist, the Church of Satan is by far the largest. Other Satanic groups currently exist and have existed in the recent past. Many are short-lived; their web sites often come and go within a few months. According to Statistic Canada, the 1991 census found only 335 Canadians who identified themselves as Satanists. This would imply that there may be on the order of 3,500 Satanists in the U.S. The actual number is probably significantly larger. A US Department of the Army pamphlet #165-13 estimated that there were 10 to 20 thousand members of the Church of Satan in the US during the late 1970's. 1,2 Accurate data for this movement is impossible to estimate, since the largest group (the Church of Satan) does not release its membership totals.

It is important to realize that the Satan that they recognize has few if any points of similarity with the historical Muslim or Christian concept of Satan. The Satanists' concept of Satan is pre-Christian, and derived from the Pagan image of power, virility, sexuality and sensuality. To almost religious Satanists, Satan is a force of nature, not a living quasi-deity. Their Satan has nothing to do with Hell, demons, pitchforks, sadistic torture, buying people's souls, demonic possession, performing miracles, human sacrifices, cannibalism, and profoundly evil deeds.

In the past, Satanists occasionally engaged in the portrayal of a Black Mass in Latin for publicity purposes. They have ridiculed the Roman Catholic Mass. But, otherwise, their rituals have no connection to those of Christianity.

Starting in 1980, there was a growing and widespread belief that Satanists were involved in Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) and killing of innocent infants, children and adults. In the late 1980s, believers in SRA expanded their accusations to include a wide variety of other small religious groups as perpetrators. Belief in SRA faded during the 1990s due to a complete lack of hard evidence. It is accepted by most investigators to be a Christian urban legend, based on fear, misinformation, and false memories created during recovered memory therapy.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis3.htm

Most "Satanists" are just either hedonists or rebellious young teen atheists trying to annoy their parents.
There are plenty that are not. Look at the Church of Satan. They don't do the "rebellious teen" thing at all.

If you read the thread, I already addressed that. Please read the thread before posting again.

As I said before, the church of satan has nothing to do with the christian faith. We are not talking about them.

They have nothing to do with the christian concept of satan.

They have nothing to do with the christian concept of satan.
I thought that the thread was asking about why Satanist worship Satan, and I was answering that. I didn't think that the OP was referring specifically to the case of a Christian Satan. I am sorry if you had already posted that.

Thanks for clearing it up.

I thought that the thread was asking about why Satanist worship Satan, and I was answering that. I didn't think that the OP was referring specifically to the case of a Christian Satan. I am sorry if you had already posted that.

Thanks for clearing it up.


No problem.

But the Satan as a force of nature isn't really the same at all.

I don't believe in a physical Satan. Satan is the battle we have inside of ourselves over the choices between good and evil.

That's more or less my opinion as well...there may actually be a physical Satan, there may not, but the main thing is that good and evil both exist in everyone, and we have to decide if we want to try to be good, kind of thing.