NationStates Jolt Archive

I mean come on.

It comes from a millenia old religious doctrine mostly written by Catholic and Jewish scholars aiming to convert as many people as possible.

The proof that creationism has scientific backing is open to a great deal of interpretation and speculation. Most of the time its just some lose words like 'the sun is all' which zealots immediately take to mean that the Bible knew about the speed of light.

Most scientists have operated on evolution as a concept since the 19th Century and most modern research is based on Darwin's theories. How can so many intelligent people be wrong?

I just think its some people being bitter and not accepting that many, many years ago there ancestors were apes. Mind you looking at some Americans, I think that apes were in their bloodline alot more recently.

Furthermore, the idea of a spontaneously existant god who creates a universe is less logically plausible than a spontaneously existant universe. Occam's razor, although oddly I think Occam was a priest.

Although I completely disagree about the comment about us Yanks, I agree that creationism is, oh, how shall I put this, completely invalid. It's no more true than how the Greeks or Hindus once thought the world began, as it is based in nothing. It is just completely made up, and it's sad that it's the basis for a lot of things today. Why is the week seven days long? Because of Genesis. Seven isn't even a round number.

Creationism vs Evolution (http://physics.syr.edu/courses/modules/ORIGINS/origins.html)
talk.origins Homepage (http://www.talkorigins.org/)

Furthermore, the idea of a spontaneously existant god who creates a universe is less logically plausible than a spontaneously existant universe. Occam's razor, although oddly I think Occam was a priest.
How? That makes no sense.

How? That makes no sense.

Well, the creationist argument relies on two impossible feats of logic, and the big bang argument only relies on one.

How? That makes no sense.
God is an extra step. Occam's razor says something like when confronted with two possible explanations the one with the least number of steps is more likely to be correct.

Well, the creationist argument relies on two impossible feats of logic, and the big bang argument only relies on one.
Maybe, but that does not necessarily make it a better theory.

Also, creationism has a great thing going for them with the whole creater of the universe and everything theory. If God created the world he also created the laws it has to live by. God would then be outside of logic. So it does not matter.

Maybe, but that does not necessarily make it a better theory.

Also, creationism has a great thing going for them with the whole creater of the universe and everything theory. If God created the world he also created the laws it has to live by. God would then be outside of logic. So it does not matter.
How is that a great thing?

How is that a great thing?
Because it is able to break rules of logic. Cheating to win is still a win.

That makes no sense. In order to be able to create a Universe (Which in itself makes no sense, but bear with me.) a God would have to obey some form of logic. Which means both theories are about as likely. But neither side will admit it. Laziness is great in debates.

Well, the creationist argument relies on two impossible feats of logic, and the big bang argument only relies on one.

Do you believe in the big bang? Nearly every scientist will agree that everything points to a big bang. There are 4 main points that makes the word S.U.R.G.E.
S) - Second law of thermodynamics= which is the study of matter and energy, the second law says the universe is running out of energy. With each moment, the amount of usable energy in the universe grows smaller, which leads scientists to the conclusion that one day all energy will be gone and the universe will die. (like a car running out of gas)
U) - The universe is expanding.
R) - Radiation of the Big Bang - Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson detected it in 1965. They discovered the afterglow of the big bang called "cosmic background radiation." It consists of light and heat from an explosion. The story is very interesting, and im sure you can get more details online.
G) - Galaxy Seeds = If the big bang occured, scientists said many years before, that we would find variations or ripples in the temperature of the cosmic background radiation. There ripples enabled matter to congregate by gravitational attraction into galaxies. They were discovered in 1992. (im going to throw this in hear just because, George Smoot, the lead astronomer looked at the data he NASA found, and he said "if your religious, its like looking at God.")
E) Einsteins Theory of General Relativity = It demands an absolute beginning for time, space and matter. They are co-relative. ( that means that they are interdependent, so you cant have one without the other. )
These are just some arguments for a beginning of the universe, which i think is evidence of God

I think as long as evolutionists push their ideas creationists will do the same. I find them both built on a lot of faith on ideas, so its kinda a mute point to me. I could care less. I have my personal belief structure and there isn't much that will ever change it, though I'm sure people out there think they could.

As long as there is a challenge there is a responce, as long as there is a responce, something will not die out. So as long as Creationism is challenged, people will openly defend it. I for one am glad people can think without trying to use logic and proof. It reminds me of when I was in middle school and they did all those personality tests. Some people operate off the concrete some the abstract, some logic some random. some need a set of order to conclude things, others need openness to explore things. In the end it just shows how diverse the entire world is.

Diversity should never be shunned, the only thing that should me shunned is the constriction of people in a forceful way. Prejudice and hate are negitive, and thus the only ideas that shouldn't be, but will always be. I've known people of almost every social class, and got along with them all. I've known people of most ethnicallities, and the same is true too. You will have your random bad egg in the bunch, but its true with everything. Just because you think different or hold different ideals doesn't mean a person is dumber then another, or lacks the intelligence.

It seems people are built into two ways of seeing things. They either feel that man invented religion for many different reasons, or they feel that man was invented by religion for many different reasons. This will never change because there is not enough proof for one or the other to show it is wrong, and there will never be. Instead of calling names, insulting, and feeling better then others, we should instead be like, ya know he/she thinks different them me but that is her/his own right as a human.

Though now I depart this thread, and I figure people will always insult and find "errors" in others, but at least I said my bit.

Why is the week seven days long?

Because Christians said it was. We didn't even have 7 day weeks before the bible, we just had approximately 365 days in a full orbit of the sun.

Because Christians said it was. We didn't even have 7 day weeks before the bible, we just had approximately 365 days in a full orbit of the sun.

See my other, even wackier thread

To the Decimalisation of the week (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393187)

Do you believe in the big bang? Nearly every scientist will agree that everything points to a big bang. There are 4 main points that makes the word S.U.R.G.E.
S) - Second law of thermodynamics= which is the study of matter and energy, the second law says the universe is running out of energy. With each moment, the amount of usable energy in the universe grows smaller, which leads scientists to the conclusion that one day all energy will be gone and the universe will die. (like a car running out of gas)
U) - The universe is expanding.
R) - Radiation of the Big Bang - Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson detected it in 1965. They discovered the afterglow of the big bang called "cosmic background radiation." It consists of light and heat from an explosion. The story is very interesting, and im sure you can get more details online.
G) - Galaxy Seeds = If the big bang occured, scientists said many years before, that we would find variations or ripples in the temperature of the cosmic background radiation. There ripples enabled matter to congregate by gravitational attraction into galaxies. They were discovered in 1992. (im going to throw this in hear just because, George Smoot, the lead astronomer looked at the data he NASA found, and he said "if your religious, its like looking at God.")
E) Einsteins Theory of General Relativity = It demands an absolute beginning for time, space and matter. They are co-relative. ( that means that they are interdependent, so you cant have one without the other. )
These are just some arguments for a beginning of the universe, which i think is evidence of God

Nice post! But either way his point still stands that it's more plausible.

Maybe, but that does not necessarily make it a better theory.

Yeah it does. The quality of the theory depends upon how plausible it is.

You know what has always bent my noodle about the universe? That idea of it being infinite. Explain that to me...how the hell can something go on and on and on forever...it hurts to think of it...it HAS to be inside something...there have to be boundaries...I can't get my mind to handle infinity...and how could we possible prove it's infinite anyway? If it IS contained somehow...what by? What do creationists say about this? And scientists? How can something honestly be infinate?

Ouch, I sprained my brain again...owwww...

Because it's infinite nothing? "Space" is just the distance between two objects. If you keep on heading in one direction in space, you're not actually going anywhere, just increasing the distance between you and the rest of the Universe.

Imagine making a blank, new scene in a 3d graphics program and putting an object in the middle of it called "big bang". Then put a new object in it called "me". Now keep on moving yourself further and further away across the blank 'space'. Assuming the space you're moving through is potentially infinite and you could go on forever if you wanted... The distance between you and the "big bang" is always going to be a finite value, which defines the "size of the universe".

Uh... Hence the size of the Universe constantly expanding. As stuff moves further through space, it gets bigger. The Universe isn't infinite, it's actually a specific and measurable size at different times. But if you keep on stretching that ruler across it, it's getting bigger and bigger for every cm you stretch it :p

You know what has always bent my noodle about the universe? That idea of it being infinite. Explain that to me...how the hell can something go on and on and on forever...it hurts to think of it...it HAS to be inside something...there have to be boundaries...I can't get my mind to handle infinity...and how could we possible prove it's infinite anyway? If it IS contained somehow...what by? What do creationists say about this? And scientists? How can something honestly be infinate?

Ouch, I sprained my brain again...owwww...

That's a good question.

How can it BE infinity?

Infinity/2 = Infinity = Infinity + 1 = Infinity + 2 = Infinity + Infinity

It's the largest number in existence. But then it's that number + 1 (the new largest number). But actually it was both numbers at the same time. ???

I'd be more easily convinced that the universe is just really huge and expanding.. infinite sounds hard to comprehend.

Bunglejinx put it in a much more simple way than I did ^_^

Furthermore, the idea of a spontaneously existant god who creates a universe is less logically plausible than a spontaneously existant universe. Occam's razor, although oddly I think Occam was a priest.


Logic isn't important look at quantum mechanics very little reason there

When it comes to evidence behind the Big Bang i won't argue, my personal belif is that there was stuff about before god decide to order it. And if god just created everything he had to start it off some way.

Logic isn't important look at quantum mechanics very little reason there

What??

I'd like to know how:

1. Quantum Mechanics doesn't involve logic.
2. Even if true, why that would mean logic isn't important?

HOW CAN LOGIC NOT BE IMPORTANT??!?

I want you all to know I go to a very reputable Catholic Highschool, and in this school we're taught biology, and that the Genesis and Adam + Eve creation stories aren't true.

Les bumpueax

Furthermore, the idea of a spontaneously existant god who creates a universe is less logically plausible than a spontaneously existant universe. Occam's razor, although oddly I think Occam was a priest.
the priests always make the more interesting discoveries

Furthermore, the idea of a spontaneously existant god who creates a universe is less logically plausible than a spontaneously existant universe. Occam's razor, although oddly I think Occam was a priest.
Actually, God is more plausible...'lot less complicated to say, "God said let there be light" than the big long process of all the stuff with the gravity and the exploding and yeah.


Anyway, I suspect people can't stop rambling on about creationism for the same reason that people can't stop rambling on about Big Bang.

Oh, and I would like to point out to you that you are also rambling on about Creationism...

See my other, even wackier thread

To the Decimalisation of the week (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393187)

Which frankly makes a lot of sense to me. Instead of naming the days, we simply number them 0-9. People can work 7 days out of 10, which is roughly the same as a five-day work week is now.

because some people can't exept religion is dieing

because some people can't exept religion is dieing

I don't quite know about that...but I do think that, given another couple of centuries, Western society will be increasingly secular, with religion almost nonexistent in practice in many parts. The Islamic world will be somewhat more secular and democratic, but not after a lot of fighting.

The same reason people will keep rambling on about religion for eternity.

What's scarier than the thought of dying and having no idea whatsoever what will happen to your soul?

A major human concern is security and comfort, even if the source is a crutch.

If God didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent him
Voltaire


I'm not trying to offend anyone, this is just how I feel. I believe religion is the worst centrifugal force in existence and too many of those who claim to be God-fearing people are hypocrites.