NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1400404,00.html

I don't know much about Opus Dei apart from the fact that they are part of the catholic church. So any info on them would be greatly appreciated.

Just wondering whether people think this is an actual newsworthy story of just a piece of anti labour reporting looking to discredit the current government.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1400404,00.html

I don't know much about Opus Dei apart from the fact that they are part of the catholic church. So any info on them would be greatly appreciated.

Just wondering whether people think this is an actual newsworthy story of just a piece of anti labour reporting looking to discredit the current government.

Opus dei are claimed to be some kind of shadowy Catholic conspiracy, like a catholic version of the masons. This is bullshit, they are just a right wing catholic organisation with some bizarre ideas, a priest once tried to get me to join, but I wasn't interested. If you are a Roman Catholic, then you can join them, it's not a conspiracy, just weird. (Dan Brown is a wanker and full of shit!!!)

P.S I'm an Atheist these days

Opus dei are claimed to be some kind of shadowy Catholic conspiracy, like a catholic version of the masons. This is bullshit, they are just a right wing catholic organisation with some bizarre ideas, a priest once tried to get me to join, but I wasn't interested. If you are a Roman Catholic, then you can join them, it's not a conspiracy, just weird. (Dan Brown is a wanker and full of shit!!!)

P.S I'm an Atheist these days

My family are Catholic and it is a topic that is not to be discussed in the house so when I saw the story I thought I could get some other opinions
cheers

The Opus Dei (Gods Job) is an ultraconservative catholic movemente founded in the mid 50's by the spanish bishop St.(recently proclaimed) José Maria Escriva de Balaguer.

Many critics say 'Opus Dei' is a sect, taht forces many of its members to donate all of their goods to the movement (This theory is reinforced by the fact that Opus Dei recruits is members from the upper classes mainly)

Another critic to Opus is that many of its members were top governemet offivcials during the spanish dictaorship. And that they have influence in ultraconseervative circles.

Some of their ideas are:

Sex is only for reproduction, otherways its bad and obscene.
No Co-ed.
The bigger the family, the better.

By the way they were always said to have the cuestion to the Madrid Univesrsit Acces exams beforhand. :p

One of my Covenmates grew up within the Opus Dei organization, and she has lots of very bad things to say about them. Aside from what has already been said, they also have a very Medieval view of women's rights (i.e. they don't exist) and participate in self flagellation. I don't know if it is mandatory or not, but it seems pretty wide-spread in their ranks. www.religioustolerance.org lists them as a group which borders on cult status, probably because of the self-beatings and extreme devotional lifestyle.

I personally don't understand the beating aspect of devotion, but maybe someone out there can explain why it's considered a good thing?

One of my Covenmates ...
And then you said:
[Opus Dei]which borders on cult statusIf you don't see the irony, there is something deeply wrong with your sense of humor.

Coven != Cult

Coven is just a word used by pagans in the same way christians say diocese.

Coven != Cult

Coven is just a word used by pagans in the same way christians say diocese.I'll take your word for it. You might want to bear in mind though, that not all Christians say diocese. Most don't actually. My point was more that pagan=cult. If you dispute that, then you aren't being serious, or you think of the word cult as an aspersion. Then I can't help you.

I'll take your word for it. You might want to bear in mind though, that not all Christians say diocese. Most don't actually. My point was more that pagan=cult. If you dispute that, then you aren't being serious, or you think of the word cult as an aspersion. Then I can't help you.
You see, the thing is...
Pagan!=cult.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/cults.htm

Which of those definitions are you using? It doesn't fit under most of them.

I think it is completely unacceptable for any politician to be associated with a fascist cult like Opus Die and she must resign immediately.

I think it is completely unacceptable for any politician to be associated with a fascist cult like Opus Die and she must resign immediately.
Why is it unacceptable for a politician to be religious? Just because the government itself isn't religious doesn't mean that its individual members cannot be. As long as she doesn't push Opus Dei's agenda, what's the problem?

Why is it unacceptable for a politician to be religious? Just because the government itself isn't religious doesn't mean that its individual members cannot be. As long as she doesn't push Opus Dei's agenda, what's the problem?

Opus Die is a far right organisation which has supported murderous fascist regimes in Latin America like Pinochet's Chile. This organisation also encourages their members to work in support of their ideas which could harm the democratic process and this minister's ability to act in the interests of the public.

Opus Die is a far right organisation which has supported murderous fascist regimes in Latin America like Pinochet's Chile. This organisation also encourages their members to work in support of their ideas which could harm the democratic process and this minister's ability to act in the interests of the public.
Well, as long as she doesn't work towards it she should be fine. If she does, *then* she should be fired.

I think it is completely unacceptable for any politician to be associated with a fascist cult like Opus Die and she must resign immediately.

They have given moral support which is acceptable. They have not offered any sort of financial support which i did not make clear earlier sorry if I misled n e one

Why is it unacceptable for a politician to be religious? Just because the government itself isn't religious doesn't mean that its individual members cannot be. As long as she doesn't push Opus Dei's agenda, what's the problem?

as it is said in the article opus dei support her policies. she is not a part of their organisation in any way shape or form as far as public knowledge knows

as it is said in the article opus dei support her policies. she is not a part of their organisation in any way shape or form as far as public knowledge knows
Oh, I didn't read all of it, I was just responding to Europaland's post with that.
Okay, that makes even less of a reason t ofire her or anything.
Yay!

Opus Die is a far right organisation which has supported murderous fascist regimes in Latin America like Pinochet's Chile. This organisation also encourages their members to work in support of their ideas which could harm the democratic process and this minister's ability to act in the interests of the public.
Everybody knocks on Pinochet, but oddly enough, he brought his country out of bankruptcy and turned it into a relatively modern society. Nobody mentions the Perons who were far worse, but then they were leftists, and therefore "good." I guess political correctness covers a multitude of sins. Or in this case, bodies.

About cults, from Dictionary.com
cult n.
1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.


I think paganism fits 2,3,5a, and 6.

I think paganism fits 2,3,5a, and 6.
5a:
"Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing."

Hrm, no. In the case of the teen Wiccans, yeah, but not all pagans.

Anyway, you can fit any religion under those, really, so it's not a bad thing to be a cult then.

5a:
"Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing."

Hrm, no. In the case of the teen Wiccans, yeah, but not all pagans.

Anyway, you can fit any religion under those, really, so it's not a bad thing to be a cult then.
Maybe you should look up the definition of aspersion, read my post above, and then get back to me.

Oh, I didn't read all of it, I was just responding to Europaland's post with that.
Okay, that makes even less of a reason t ofire her or anything.
Yay!

This was from the guardian so I was wondering whether its just another reason to slate the Labour party. Or whether this is actually a problem because Opus Dei don't affect policy decisions so what does it matter who they endorse. They are a minority group with insufficent power to really affect an election

Maybe you should look up the definition of aspersion, read my post above, and then get back to me.
An unfavorable or damaging remark; slander: Don't cast aspersions on my honesty.
I fail to see your point.

I fail to see your point.
I'll take your word for it. You might want to bear in mind though, that not all Christians say diocese. Most don't actually. My point was more that pagan=cult. If you dispute that, then you aren't being serious, or you think of the word cult as an aspersion. Then I can't help you.
Now do you?

Opus Dei also practise flagellation and use of the cilice 'torture' belt.
No, this did not come from Dan Brown. A friend of mine's father used to be in Opus Dei. He calls himself 'rehabilitated' now, and he always refers to Opus Dei as 'the Cult'. He showed me his cilice scars once- very nasty indeed.

Here's a couple of URL's for you guys-
http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/ - A relatively unbiased, independant look at Opus Dei, listing both the good and bad points. Well worth a read.

http://www.opusdei.org/ - Official Opus Dei website. Incredibly biased, and several crucial facts are left out, for instance, there is no mention of the fact that Opus Dei practise flagellation, other than to deny the claims in the Davinci Code.

Now do you?
Oh, when I first read that post it seemed as though you *were* trying to use the term 'cult' to cast pagans into an unfavourable light. I think I understand you now.

Opus Dei also practise flagellation and use of the cilice 'torture' belt.
No, this did not come from Dan Brown. A friend of mine's father used to be in Opus Dei. He calls himself 'rehabilitated' now, and he always refers to Opus Dei as 'the Cult'. He showed me his cilice scars once- very nasty indeed.

Here's a couple of URL's for you guys-
http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/ - A relatively unbiased, independant look at Opus Dei, listing both the good and bad points. Well worth a read.

http://www.opusdei.org/ - Official Opus Dei website. Incredibly biased, and several crucial facts are left out, for instance, there is no mention of the fact that Opus Dei practise flagellation, other than to deny the claims in the Davinci Code.Whatever. It seems you have a personal vendetta against Opus Dei that blinds you to the truth. If you actually read
http://www.opusdei.org/art.php?w=32&p=9316 and
http://www.opusdei.org/art.php?w=32&a=2177
you'll see they don't deny that Catholics practice flagellation, but they do say they encourage their members to take care of their spiritual and physical health. I didn't know much about Opus Dei until about half an hour ago, and I am not Catholic, but it seems to me that they just take their religion very seriously, and as long as that doesn't hurt others, I don't have a problem with it. Chill out dude.

I have nothing against them, i'm just saying that their official site probably isn't the best source of unbiased information. If you were trying to get people to join, would you put forward the bad points?

I wouldn't.

I have nothing against them, i'm just saying that their official site probably isn't the best source of unbiased information. If you were trying to get people to join, would you put forward the bad points?

I wouldn't.You have to be invited to join anyway, as far as I know. And the "bad points" you are referrring to are discussed at length in the links I gave. And just because you would have no problem being dishonest in order to get people to agree with you doesn't mean that other people feel the same way.