NationStates Jolt Archive

With next weeks humiliation of the conservative party, and the possibility of a non confidence ushered election, I believe Paul Martin one way or the other will be the PM for the next 8 or 12 years. John Manley said in an interview he would seek the prime ministers office after martin steps down, but it is my belief also that Pierre Pettigrew will be the next prime minister after Paul Martin. So what do you think?

What humiliation?

What humiliation?

Hes probably not going to be able to shoot down the same sex marrage bill, dreaded by all blue torries

With next weeks humiliation of the conservative party, and the possibility of a non confidence ushered election, I believe Paul Martin one way or the other will be the PM for the next 8 or 12 years. John Manley said in an interview he would seek the prime ministers office after martin steps down, but it is my belief also that Pierre Pettigrew will be the next prime minister after Paul Martin. So what do you think?
What are you talking about? non-confidence election?

And I'd support Paul Martin until the day he dies, or I do, whichever comes first.

I'll support the first Prime Minister to actually look past the Ontarian border.

"Hey Paul! we're over here!!!" :D

The Liberals bring nothing but death to the Canadian people.
They are destroying your country.
WAKE UP!

With next weeks humiliation of the conservative party, and the possibility of a non confidence ushered election, I believe Paul Martin one way or the other will be the PM for the next 8 or 12 years. John Manley said in an interview he would seek the prime ministers office after martin steps down, but it is my belief also that Pierre Pettigrew will be the next prime minister after Paul Martin. So what do you think?


I had somethign to say here but after trying to get his stupid thing to the reply screen after 1 dozen or so page reloads I've lost the thought.

ugggghhh... :mad:

Hmm. Next person I want to be Prime Minister or next person I expect to be prime minister? If the latter, I figure Paul Martin's sticking around for a while longer. At least until after the next election. As for what I want, I must admit most of the leaders didn't really impress me in last summer's debate... if I were to judge based on their performances there (as their behaviour in the House is altered by the Minority Government, but in the debate they are closer to their natural state) the only guy who I wasn't disappointed by was... I can hardly say it.... Gilles Duceppe. I'm sorry. Don't hurt me.

I'll support the first Prime Minister to actually look past the Ontarian border.

"Hey Paul! we're over here!!!" :D

LOL...I live in Ontario and I have to agree. After constantly reading the Toronto Star spout about how the federal government has to bail out Toronto's transit system, I keep on thinking, "Gee, doesn't Calgary have a transit system worth saving; and don't the Newfoundlanders deserve some help? They've been left in the cold ever since Canada closed down their fisheries".

I love Toronto, but I'm sick of the whining.

I had somethign to say here but after trying to get his stupid thing to the reply screen after 1 dozen or so page reloads I've lost the thought.

ugggghhh... :mad:
That's so sad.

:)

I bet who ever gets it will be Catholic and from Quebec.

I didn't really like Martin before the election, and I didn't vote liberal either, but now my support for Martin is significantly higher.

Hmm. Next person I want to be Prime Minister or next person I expect to be prime minister? If the latter, I figure Paul Martin's sticking around for a while longer. At least until after the next election. As for what I want, I must admit most of the leaders didn't really impress me in last summer's debate... if I were to judge based on their performances there (as their behaviour in the House is altered by the Minority Government, but in the debate they are closer to their natural state) the only guy who I wasn't disappointed by was... I can hardly say it.... Gilles Duceppe. I'm sorry. Don't hurt me.
The only guy you were impressed by was the one who spoke not for his country but only for his province. I take it you were looking for some sort of fidelity?

The reasion i say Pierre Pettigrew is because the liberal leadership must be passed between a french and english leader. Martin is english, Pettigrew is french.

PS IM NOT GOING TO ARGUE WITCH PARTY IS JUST OR NOT BECAUSE BELIVE IT OR NOT THERE ARE 308 SEATS AND 30 MILLION PEOPLE IN CANADA, AND EVERY PROVINCE HAS A SEAT FOR EVERY 100K CITIZENS, AND WE ALL CAN SEE THE TROUBLES OF HAVING AN ELECTORAL VOTE SYSTEM THAT WOULD DESCRIMINATE AGAINST ONT AND QUE VOTERS, WHILE BENIFEITING THE PRARIES AND MARITIMES.

The Liberals bring nothing but death to the Canadian people.
They are destroying your country.
WAKE UP!

Nice try hitler

PS IM NOT GOING TO ARGUE WITCH PARTY IS JUST OR NOT BECAUSE BELIVE IT OR NOT THERE ARE 308 SEATS AND 30 MILLION PEOPLE IN CANADA, AND EVERY PROVINCE HAS A SEAT FOR EVERY 100K CITIZENS, AND WE ALL CAN SEE THE TROUBLES OF HAVING AN ELECTORAL VOTE SYSTEM THAT WOULD DESCRIMINATE AGAINST ONT AND QUE VOTERS, WHILE BENIFEITING THE PRARIES AND MARITIMES.

Stop shouting!

The Liberals bring nothing but death to the Canadian people.
They are destroying your country.
WAKE UP!
Hi again Hitler Jr. Still squatting on my brother's land I see...I see you have once again intruded on a real discussion...now go read a book about Canadian politcs so you realise Liberal doesn't mean liberal.

I bet who ever gets it will be Catholic and from Quebec.

Like me!

I bet who ever gets it will be Catholic and from Quebec.
I would like to live to see the day a Westerner got into the PM's office...but not until Ralph Klein is dead, because I couldn't handle having him screw us federally too.

I bet who ever gets it will be Catholic and from Quebec.

I'm catholic(in theory) and from Québec(although not separatist) and I' d rather not have another Chrétien, thanks.

If you asked me who I'd like to have for a prime Minister, I'd have to say Jack. That's not very likely, though :(

LOL...I live in Ontario and I have to agree. After constantly reading the Toronto Star spout about how the federal government has to bail out Toronto's transit system, I keep on thinking, "Gee, doesn't Calgary have a transit system worth saving; and don't the Newfoundlanders deserve some help? They've been left in the cold ever since Canada closed down their fisheries".

I love Toronto, but I'm sick of the whining.
Try being from BC and having to sit through such ridiculous events as the Sars benefit, or the rally that went around all of the poor people affected by the blackout or the hurricane. Meanwhile your province's main industry is trampled on mercilessly by the American politicians and your federal government does nothing to stop it or support the people affected by it. Enter the mad cow crisis, granted, there werent as many losses sustained as a result of that one cow as there were due to the softwood lumber fiasco, but the losses sure as hell kicked the living crap out of any sustained during or after the blackout - and the federal government sure took their sweet time helping out with that one. A lot of farmers were in dire straits at that point let me tell you, imagine how they felt to turn on the news and see the stuffed shirt politicans in Ontario feeding dollars into every failing industry that could get them a few ballots from the vote rich east. Its sickening really - we need a voice out here in the west. I have nothing against the people of Ontario, but the system is unfairly biased towards their needs.

I thought George Bush was the Pres of America until 2006?!?

The reasion i say Pierre Pettigrew is because the liberal leadership must be passed between a french and english leader. Martin is english, Pettigrew is french.

PS IM NOT GOING TO ARGUE WITCH PARTY IS JUST OR NOT BECAUSE BELIVE IT OR NOT THERE ARE 308 SEATS AND 30 MILLION PEOPLE IN CANADA, AND EVERY PROVINCE HAS A SEAT FOR EVERY 100K CITIZENS, AND WE ALL CAN SEE THE TROUBLES OF HAVING AN ELECTORAL VOTE SYSTEM THAT WOULD DESCRIMINATE AGAINST ONT AND QUE VOTERS, WHILE BENIFEITING THE PRARIES AND MARITIMES.


What are you a fucking idiot? Alberta and BC are WAAAAAY under represented, while the maritimes is WAAAY over represented...

I would like to live to see the day a Westerner got into the PM's office...but not until Ralph Klein is dead, because I couldn't handle having him screw us federally too.


I dont like the guy either but I am positive he would do a better job than the scumbags in the liberal party.

I'm catholic(in theory) and from Québec(although not separatist) and I' d rather not have another Chrétien, thanks.

If you asked me who I'd like to have for a prime Minister, I'd have to say Jack. That's not very likely, though :(


And thank GOD the NDPs would not get in. :eek:

I thought George Bush was the Pres of America until 2006?!?

2008! He was just inaugerated last week!

Just out of curiosity, what difference would it make to the outside world who became PM of Canada, given the array of choices?

Just out of curiosity, what difference would it make to the outside world who became PM of Canada, given the array of choices?

Not to mention that they are still answerable to the Queen

2008! He was just inaugerated last week!

I'm an American male age 20-25, how the hell am I supposed to know that?

I'm an American male age 20-25, how the hell am I supposed to know that?

YOUR AN AMERICAN AND DIDN"T KNOW THAT! Boy either your really really stupid or your education sucked big time.

I'm an American male age 22 and I knew this!

YOUR AN AMERICAN AND DIDN"T KNOW THAT! Boy either your really really stupid or your education sucked big time.

I'm an American male age 22 and I knew this!
I've been in Austria for the past 5 months, I could care less (until I have to go back).

I've been in Austria for the past 5 months, I could care less (until I have to go back).

Well, your an american and you should've known how long a President Serves in Office. The Next Congressional Elections, both House and Senate, is in 2006! The Presidential Election is in 2008!

Remember that!

Just out of curiosity, what difference would it make to the outside world who became PM of Canada, given the array of choices?


WEll if the fruity NDPers get in (hard core socialist) you might see all the canadian oil and gas go to china. :)

NO american bases on canuck soil and a socialist government.

What are you a fucking idiot? Alberta and BC are WAAAAAY under represented, while the maritimes is WAAAY over represented...

No need to swear because you can't get your minority party into power,
heres a list of the provinces...and the average numer of people 1 seat represents, and i'll segregate them into regions so you don't get too confused.

~Maritimes~
Newfoundland and Labrador- 73 276
Nova Scotia - 82 546
Prince Edward Island - 33 824
New Brunswick - 72 950

~Great Lakes~
Québec - 96 500
Ontario - 107 642

~Praries~
Manitoba - 79 970
Saskatchewan - 69 924
Alberta - 106 243
British Columbia - 108 548

~Actric~
Nunavut - 26 745
Northwest Territories - 37 360
Yukon- 28 675

You kind of missed Ontario on the "WAAAAAY under represented" catergory....our wait, that would work against your ppoint thats why, my mistake.

On a side note if the English to French leadership chain was broken, I would want Ralph Goodale the Finance minister to be the next prime miniter, but Pettigrew is on the rise, thats why Martin has him on Forign affairs.

I dont like the guy either but I am positive he would do a better job than the scumbags in the liberal party.
I'm positive you're wrong:) Agree to disagree?

I dont like the guy either but I am positive he would do a better job than the scumbags in the liberal party.

AH HA HA HA HA! Ralph K's ultra conservativness woul result ina near shutout in East canada, and probably scare some folks in BC too. At least he could get the bums off the street, we'll just get him drunk and he'll go thow pocket change at them so they can get their lives together.

AH HA HA HA HA! Ralph K's ultra conservativness woul result ina near shutout in East canada, and probably scare some folks in BC too. At least he could get the bums off the street, we'll just get him drunk and he'll go thow pocket change at them so they can get their lives together.


Eheheeheee!!!

Ralph Klein is an ignorant hick.

With next weeks humiliation of the conservative party, and the possibility of a non confidence ushered election, I believe Paul Martin one way or the other will be the PM for the next 8 or 12 years. John Manley said in an interview he would seek the prime ministers office after martin steps down, but it is my belief also that Pierre Pettigrew will be the next prime minister after Paul Martin. So what do you think?

I've been maintaining that Pierre Pettigrew is being groomed for the PMO for several years now. I disagree, however, with your assertion that Martin will serve as PM for the next 8-12 years...I would expect him to lead the Liberals into the next election, and most likely form the next government, but I'd be very surprised indeed if he were to attempt to hold the reins of power past that point - I expect he'll step down as PM towards the end of his next term.

Why? One word - age. Martin is the same age as Chretien, after all. There are too many 'star' Liberals to hold them back for long. Look what happened to Chretien - too many years as top dog, and the long knives come out. Better to exit gracefully than to be made for the high-jump.

I've been maintaining that Pierre Pettigrew is being groomed for the PMO for several years now. I disagree, however, with your assertion that Martin will serve as PM for the next 8-12 years...I would expect him to lead the Liberals into the next election, and most likely form the next government, but I'd be very surprised indeed if he were to attempt to hold the reins of power past that point - I expect he'll step down as PM towards the end of his next term.

Why? One word - age. Martin is the same age as Chretien, after all. There are too many 'star' Liberals to hold them back for long. Look what happened to Chretien - too many years as top dog, and the long knives come out. Better to exit gracefully than to be made for the high-jump.


YES!!!!!

I would like to live to see the day a Westerner got into the PM's office...but not until Ralph Klein is dead, because I couldn't handle having him screw us federally too.

LOL - I guess Kimmie doesn't count, eh?

But technically she was PM...

WEll if the fruity NDPers get in (hard core socialist) you might see all the canadian oil and gas go to china. :)



Disagree. The NDP are less likely to sell control of Canadian oil and gas companies to foreign countries than a party that is willing to let the free market and the highest bidder win.

Eheheeheee!!!

Ralph Klein is an ignorant hick.Damn that hick for making Alberta the first provice to be out of debt and producing a surplus. Obviously he knows nothing of Canadian government; it's standard practice in Canada's provinces to rack up huge debts. How are those poor Albertans going to be able to identify themselves as Canadian if they are in the black?

I don't think the Liberals are going to stand much of a chance in the next election. Decades blatent theft and lies has to catch up with them sometime. But then again, I said that last time and they got a minority government. So I guess I was half right.

Damn that hick for making Alberta the first provice to be out of debt and producing a surplus. Obviously he knows nothing of Canadian government; it's standard practice in Canada's provinces to rack up huge debts. How are those poor Albertans going to be able to identify themselves as Canadian if they are in the black?

I don't think the Liberals are going to stand much of a chance in the next election. Decades blatent theft and lies has to catch up with them sometime. But then again, I said that last time and they got a minority government. So I guess I was half right.

If something doesn't work, change it. That goes for governments and governmental leaders.

The Liberal Party hasn't done much for Canada so I believe it is time for a change. Hopefully the people of Canada will see that it is time for a change and do the right thing.

Damn that hick for making Alberta the first provice to be out of debt and producing a surplus. Obviously he knows nothing of Canadian government; it's standard practice in Canada's provinces to rack up huge debts. How are those poor Albertans going to be able to identify themselves as Canadian if they are in the black?

I don't think the Liberals are going to stand much of a chance in the next election. Decades blatent theft and lies has to catch up with them sometime. But then again, I said that last time and they got a minority government. So I guess I was half right.

Decades blatent theft and lies caught up with the conservative party in 1993 remember ? Theyv put a new coat of paint, but they still have the same rotten interior as every other party. Every political party is corrup, accept it. It whos corrupt, but makes you smile that should be of concern.

No need to swear because you can't get your minority party into power,
heres a list of the provinces...and the average numer of people 1 seat represents, and i'll segregate them into regions so you don't get too confused.

Dude, lower numbers are better the way you're showing them. Your argument has been destroyed. Please be quiet. ;)

If something doesn't work, change it. That goes for governments and governmental leaders.

The Liberal Party hasn't done much for Canada so I believe it is time for a change. Hopefully the people of Canada will see that it is time for a change and do the right thing.

I don't know people, martins done more a year and a half than most would ever predict, and what is the right thing? giving control to another party that would do the exact same things as the liberlas. Don't try to pass off that the conservative party is more noble because they have never been tested so you cannot know, and the NDP need to take off their rose coloured glasses we can all agree. If you review history you'll see the the party that has done the very most for canada is the Liberal party, they are the only party left from confederation, so of coarse they have a huge history, while the other current parties have very little history. Is the right thing to do..... cut taxes and gut governement services to compensate, descriminate against gays because of your pearsonal belifs, move canada back in time on morals. Or maybe ban trans fats, alienating the americans and making government a part of your daily life. Or maybe we can have a government that wants to Pay down the nations debt, and give rights to homosexuals, and make equalization work in the maritimes.

Sorry is this post was sloppy, but i think i said everything i wanted.....

STOP TALKING ABOUT PARTIES TALK ABOUT WHO YOU THINK WILL BE THE NEXT PM

Dude, lower numbers are better the way you're showing them. Your argument has been destroyed. Please be quiet. ;)

Oh? so well keep the martime seats the same, and add more seats to Ontario Alberta and BC. How does it destoy my aguement ? I was pointing out how Alberta is less descriminated than Ontario. I just can't stand people saying Ontario blocks their hopes and dreams when my vote here is worth less than theirs out west. Chalk it up to frustration, so i'll be quite on thism but you gota be quite too alright ?

I don't know people, martins done more a year and a half than most would ever predict, and what is the right thing? giving control to another party that would do the exact same things as the liberlas. Don't try to pass off that the conservative party is more noble because they have never been tested so you cannot know, and the NDP need to take off their rose coloured glasses we can all agree. If you review history you'll see the the party that has done the very most for canada is the Liberal party, they are the only party left from confederation, so of coarse they have a huge history, while the other current parties have very little history. Is the right thing to do..... cut taxes and gut governement services to compensate, descriminate against gays because of your pearsonal belifs, move canada back in time on morals. Or maybe ban trans fats, alienating the americans and making government a part of your daily life. Or maybe we can have a government that wants to Pay down the nations debt, and give rights to homosexuals, and make equalization work in the maritimes.

Sorry is this post was sloppy, but i think i said everything i wanted.....

STOP TALKING ABOUT PARTIES TALK ABOUT WHO YOU THINK WILL BE THE NEXT PM

Well that depends on who is running. If its Martin again well, I fear for the people of Canada who run across the border seeking medical treatment because your own socialist healthcare forces them to wait many weeks for routine proceedures.

Now to your points. Cutting Taxes as always stimulated an economy. As for gutting Government Programs, I guess it'll have to depend on the Program. As for discriminating against gays, I'll admit here that I didn't support the FMA. I believe it is a state issue and only a state issue. I believe in Civil Unions and limited Benefits. As for eliminating Trans fats Alienating Americans (whatever the hell your talking about here) and making government a part of daily life (it always has been regardless), Your thinking of a city in Northern California that is on the other side of Oakland.

As for what your saying about paying down the national debt, giving rights to homosexuals, and equalization of work, I like to know how you'll be able to do that when your Military is in ruins, your navy outdated, and your healthcare in ruins. How will Martin fix that?

Well that depends on who is running. If its Martin again well, I fear for the people of Canada who run across the border seeking medical treatment because your own socialist healthcare forces them to wait many weeks for routine proceedures.

Now to your points. Cutting Taxes as always stimulated an economy. As for gutting Government Programs, I guess it'll have to depend on the Program. As for discriminating against gays, I'll admit here that I didn't support the FMA. I believe it is a state issue and only a state issue. I believe in Civil Unions and limited Benefits. As for eliminating Trans fats Alienating Americans (whatever the hell your talking about here) and making government a part of daily life (it always has been regardless), Your thinking of a city in Northern California that is on the other side of Oakland.

As for what your saying about paying down the national debt, giving rights to homosexuals, and equalization of work, I like to know how you'll be able to do that when your Military is in ruins, your navy outdated, and your healthcare in ruins. How will Martin fix that?

I'll agree that cutting taxes works, but so does a number of other meathods.,

~The Trans fats , Alienating Americans, and big government is NDP

And whats the point of having the best military in the world if we're never going to use it. Selling a war to Canadians is like convincing a pacifist to kill someone. Canada does not want conflict, so investing in better machines in volved with conflict is pointless. Sure a great deal of canadians want a better military, but they are by far the minority.

I'll agree that cutting taxes works, but so does a number of other meathods.,

~The Trans fats , Alienating Americans, and big government is NDP

And whats the point of having the best military in the world if we're never going to use it. Selling a war to Canadians is like convincing a pacifist to kill someone. Canada does not want conflict, so investing in better machines in volved with conflict is pointless. Sure a great deal of canadians want a better military, but they are by far the minority.

Here's a thought then if your not going to have a military! PULL OUT OF NATO!!!! I never said anything about being the best military in the world. I don't know where you got that impressionl. All I was getting at was that it was in shambles and that you should bring it up to modern times.

As for them being in the minority, how many of your military personel want to have better equipment and a more up to date military?

Paul Martin is a lier. I mean, how can we as Canadians put a lier in the Prime Minister's office? Oh wait, we did that for 10 years or whatever it was with Chretien! Honestly though, I really have become irritated with the Liberals and even though I supported one in the last election, I certanly won't in the next one. The Liberals pretend to care about the West and I will given Ralph Goodale and Ann McClellan credit for trying to make us heard but it seems to be falling on deaf ears. And the conservatives won't humiliate themselves with the same-sex marriage because the only party firmly behind that passing is the NDP. And when you say a minority wants a better military, you refer to Western Canada but whatever floats your boat.

Paul Martin is a lier. I mean, how can we as Canadians put a lier in the Prime Minister's office? Oh wait, we did that for 10 years or whatever it was with Chretien! Honestly though, I really have become irritated with the Liberals and even though I supported one in the last election, I certanly won't in the next one. The Liberals pretend to care about the West and I will given Ralph Goodale and Ann McClellan credit for trying to make us heard but it seems to be falling on deaf ears. And the conservatives won't humiliate themselves with the same-sex marriage because the only party firmly behind that passing is the NDP. And when you say a minority wants a better military, you refer to Western Canada but whatever floats your boat.

Nice pun at the end of the post! I liked it :D

Here's a thought then if your not going to have a military! PULL OUT OF NATO!!!! I never said anything about being the best military in the world. I don't know where you got that impressionl. All I was getting at was that it was in shambles and that you should bring it up to modern times.

As for them being in the minority, how many of your military personel want to have better equipment and a more up to date military?

Who cares what the troops want when your voting for the government that tells them what to do, and paying taxes so they can do what the government your suporting tells them to do. We're part of nato because they don't want a hole the size of europe in the atlantic, who cares about Nato, in this century is will become even more marginalized than the UN. if canaians belived in nato them why were we not in iraq ? because war is very unpopular in canada, and so is the military as a result.

Who cares what the troops want when your voting for the government that tells them what to do, and paying taxes so they can do what the government your suporting tells them to do. We're part of nato because they don't want a hole the size of europe in the atlantic, who cares about Nato, in this century is will become even more marginalized than the UN. if canaians belived in nato them why were we not in iraq ? because war is very unpopular in canada, and so is the military as a result.

OUR LEADERS CARE! The reason they care is that they care a significant portion of the vote in our country. Do your military Personel vote in your elections? As for not Caring about NATO then convince your leaders to Pull out of it.

As for not being in Iraq, your way to cowardly to be there. You would just get hurt and probably run because your military doesn't have the capacity for a prolonged fight. Your only in Afghanistan because of Article V of the NATO Charter. I'm sure that you wouldn't be there if it wasn't for that.

If you also don't like your military, then convince your leaders to dispand it. Be advised however, the USA will then be forced to protect your cowardly hide.

NOTE: This is not a reflection of all Canadians. Just those that dispise the military and not realizing the sacrifice they make to make sure they have the ability to do so. I have the greatest respect for the Canadian Military as does my dad who is in the United States Military. I was over at NORAD and met Canadian Personel! To bad the Canadian military is in shambles.

Who cares what the troops want when your voting for the government that tells them what to do, and paying taxes so they can do what the government your suporting tells them to do. We're part of nato because they don't want a hole the size of europe in the atlantic, who cares about Nato, in this century is will become even more marginalized than the UN. if canaians belived in nato them why were we not in iraq ? because war is very unpopular in canada, and so is the military as a result.

OUR LEADERS CARE! The reason they care is that they care a significant portion of the vote in our country. Do your military Personel vote in your elections? As for not Caring about NATO then convince your leaders to Pull out of it.

As for not being in Iraq, your way to cowardly to be there. You would just get hurt and probably run because your military doesn't have the capacity for a prolonged fight. Your only in Afghanistan because of Article V of the NATO Charter. I'm sure that you wouldn't be there if it wasn't for that.

If you also don't like your military, then convince your leaders to dispand it. Be advised however, the USA will then be forced to protect your cowardly hide.

NOTE: This is not a reflection of all Canadians. Just those that dispise the military and not realizing the sacrifice they make to make sure they have the ability to do so. I have the greatest respect for the Canadian Military as does my dad who is in the United States Military. I was over at NORAD and met Canadian Personel! To bad the Canadian military is in shambles.

Who cares what the troops want when your voting for the government that tells them what to do, and paying taxes so they can do what the government your suporting tells them to do. We're part of nato because they don't want a hole the size of europe in the atlantic, who cares about Nato, in this century is will become even more marginalized than the UN. if canaians belived in nato them why were we not in iraq ? because war is very unpopular in canada, and so is the military as a result.

OUR LEADERS CARE! The reason they care is that they care a significant portion of the vote in our country. Do your military Personel vote in your elections? As for not Caring about NATO then convince your leaders to Pull out of it.

As for not being in Iraq, your way to cowardly to be there. You would just get hurt and probably run because your military doesn't have the capacity for a prolonged fight. Your only in Afghanistan because of Article V of the NATO Charter. I'm sure that you wouldn't be there if it wasn't for that.

If you also don't like your military, then convince your leaders to dispand it. Be advised however, the USA will then be forced to protect your cowardly hide.

NOTE: This is not a reflection of all Canadians. Just those that dispise the military and not realizing the sacrifice they make to make sure they have the ability to do so. I have the greatest respect for the Canadian Military as does my dad who is in the United States Military. I was over at NORAD and met Canadian Personel! To bad the Canadian military is in shambles.

Paul Martin is a lier. I mean, how can we as Canadians put a lier in the Prime Minister's office? Oh wait, we did that for 10 years or whatever it was with Chretien! Honestly though, I really have become irritated with the Liberals and even though I supported one in the last election, I certanly won't in the next one. The Liberals pretend to care about the West and I will given Ralph Goodale and Ann McClellan credit for trying to make us heard but it seems to be falling on deaf ears. And the conservatives won't humiliate themselves with the same-sex marriage because the only party firmly behind that passing is the NDP. And when you say a minority wants a better military, you refer to Western Canada but whatever floats your boat.

Steven Harper is a lier. I mean, how can we as Canadians want to put a lier in the Prime Minister's office? Oh wait, we did that for 10 years or whatever it was with Mulrouney! Honestly though, I really have become irritated with the Conservatives and I supported one in the last election, I certanly will in the next one. The Conservatives pretend to care about the East and I will given Belinda Stronach and Peter Mckay credit for trying to make us heard but it seems to be falling on deaf ears. And the conservatives will humiliate themselves with the same-sex marriage because they are the only party firmly behind denieying the charter. And when you say I the minority wants a better military, you refer to Western Canada this is what floats my boat.

SEE, JUST A FEW CHANGES AND IT THINK I CAN USE YOUR EXACT FRAME TO SUPPORT THE LIBERAL ARGUEMENT.

The Liberals bring nothing but death to the Canadian people.
They are destroying your country.
WAKE UP!

Thank you Hitler. You helped the Liberals gain another term in office.


Personally I don't care who's in office as long as it's not Harper.

OUR LEADERS CARE! The reason they care is that they care a significant portion of the vote in our country. Do your military Personel vote in your elections? As for not Caring about NATO then convince your leaders to Pull out of it.

As for not being in Iraq, your way to cowardly to be there. You would just get hurt and probably run because your military doesn't have the capacity for a prolonged fight. Your only in Afghanistan because of Article V of the NATO Charter. I'm sure that you wouldn't be there if it wasn't for that.

If you also don't like your military, then convince your leaders to dispand it. Be advised however, the USA will then be forced to protect your cowardly hide.

NOTE: This is not a reflection of all Canadians. Just those that dispise the military and not realizing the sacrifice they make to make sure they have the ability to do so. I have the greatest respect for the Canadian Military as does my dad who is in the United States Military. I was over at NORAD and met Canadian Personel! To bad the Canadian military is in shambles.

OH SO WE SHOULD CHANGE THE WAY WE THINK AND LIVE TO BE MORE AMERICAN, HELL WHY DON'T WE JUST JOIN AMERICA. THE MORE WE ESCALATE TO MORE ENEMYS WE GATHER, AND THE MORE THEY WANT TO ESSCALATE. I' M NOT SAYING THERE ISN'T A TIME TO KICK SOME ASS BUT THAT TIME IS CERTANLY NOT NOW.

The Liberal Party hasn't done much for Canada so I believe it is time for a change. Hopefully the people of Canada will see that it is time for a change and do the right thing.
I'm hoping that wasn't a cryptic message. Although I may hate the Liberals as being a bunch of indecisive centrist nobodies, the Conservatives make me cringe. Can anyone say Brian Mulroney?

Frankly, what this country needs is the NDP with balls, no environmentalists, and no damn Jack Layton.

People claim Ontario has too much power, but we have the most people - so unless the rest of the country can get the population to match, then they can just shut the hell up.

Anyway, none of the established parties deserve to run this country - its time for a true alternative.

OH SO WE SHOULD CHANGE THE WAY WE THINK AND LIVE TO BE MORE AMERICAN, HELL WHY DON'T WE JUST JOIN AMERICA. THE MORE WE ESCALATE TO MORE ENEMYS WE GATHER, AND THE MORE THEY WANT TO ESSCALATE. I' M NOT SAYING THERE ISN'T A TIME TO KICK SOME ASS BUT THAT TIME IS CERTANLY NOT NOW.

Now now! No need to yell. I wanted to show you how your arguements sounded. However, when the time does come to kick ass, Canada will be woefully unprepared. The United States was not Prepared to enter into WWI AND WWII when we did enter the war. It took us time to build and then we attacked.

It goes back to the old adage, "He who fails to learn the lessons of History are doomed to repeat them."

I don't want the same thing to happen to Canada that happened to the USA! Respect those in uniform please. They have a difficult job to perform.

Stephen Harper is a lier? Actually, I think he's quite clear about what he believes. I was more referring to Martin saying he knew nothing about the Sponsorship Scandal. Harper isn't perfect, hell I didn't want him party leader but I'd rather have him PM over Martin. But seeing as your pissed that not everyone loves Paul Martin, I won't keep pushing your buttons. But I will say this: since the last Federal Election, Martin was the only party leader not to visit Saskatchewan and he has the most to lose here with his right hand man, Mr. Goodale. Even Gilles Duceppe visited Regina and he's got nothing to gain by doing that. Or maybe he doesn't want to face the angry hoards of farmers by trying to justify the gun registry.

As for not being in Iraq, your way to cowardly to be there. You would just get hurt and probably run because your military doesn't have the capacity for a prolonged fight. Your only in Afghanistan because of Article V of the NATO Charter. I'm sure that you wouldn't be there if it wasn't for that.

If you also don't like your military, then convince your leaders to dispand it. Be advised however, the USA will then be forced to protect your cowardly hide.


Yea, we're all cowards because we don't support an unjustified war. War should be avoided at all costs. Go join the forces and head to Iraq, leaving your family and friends behind, with the chance of never returning and see how fun it is. I'd be hummiliated to live in Canada if we took part in the war. Your ignorance is overwhelming. You know you're an imbecile when you call someone a coward for not taking part in a war that you have no reason to be in. Does killing innocent people make you feel tough? What a sad world we live in. You disgust me.

Now now! No need to yell. I wanted to show you how your arguements sounded. However, when the time does come to kick ass, Canada will be woefully unprepared. The United States was not Prepared to enter into WWI AND WWII when we did enter the war. It took us time to build and then we attacked.

It goes back to the old adage, "He who fails to learn the lessons of History are doomed to repeat them."

I don't want the same thing to happen to Canada that happened to the USA! Respect those in uniform please. They have a difficult job to perform.

What ally was ready for both world wars, canada rose to the occasion just as fast as america. I respect the uniform when the uniform respects what canada wants, not what they want canada to do for them.

I'm hoping that wasn't a cryptic message. Although I may hate the Liberals as being a bunch of indecisive centrist nobodies, the Conservatives make me cringe. Can anyone say Brian Mulroney?

No it wasn't a cryptic Messege. I was saying that Canada should do the right thing by giving someone else a chance. The Liberals haven't done much for Canada because they have taken the voters for granted. However, in the last election, it is my understanding that they lost 60 seats in Parliment. This should cause the Liberals some concern. Right now in my own country of the USA, the Democratic party is trying to find ways to reverse the trend that has emerged. I think it is time for a change in Canada. Though I can't vote, I shall be following it closely.

Frankly, what this country needs is the NDP with balls, no environmentalists, and no damn Jack Layton.

Hell, even I wouldn't vote for an Environmentalist no matter what party he/she belongs too.

People claim Ontario has too much power, but we have the most people - so unless the rest of the country can get the population to match, then they can just shut the hell up.

Sounds like California though I hear that Texas and Florida are up in coming! LOL! As is Arizona

Anyway, none of the established parties deserve to run this country - its time for a true alternative.

Well then come up with something. Change only happens when people take it by the horns.

OUR LEADERS CARE! The reason they care is that they care a significant portion of the vote in our country. Do your military Personel vote in your elections? As for not Caring about NATO then convince your leaders to Pull out of it.

As for not being in Iraq, your way to cowardly to be there. You would just get hurt and probably run because your military doesn't have the capacity for a prolonged fight. Your only in Afghanistan because of Article V of the NATO Charter. I'm sure that you wouldn't be there if it wasn't for that.

If you also don't like your military, then convince your leaders to dispand it. Be advised however, the USA will then be forced to protect your cowardly hide.

NOTE: This is not a reflection of all Canadians. Just those that dispise the military and not realizing the sacrifice they make to make sure they have the ability to do so. I have the greatest respect for the Canadian Military as does my dad who is in the United States Military. I was over at NORAD and met Canadian Personel! To bad the Canadian military is in shambles.
Cowardly? I have friends whose parents are in the military - would I want them to go fight and die in a pointless war that looks like a Vietnam movie set plunked down in the desert? As for Afghanistan, no - that was justified. The United States had something approaching a credible reason for being there - unlike Iraq. Does Osama bin Laden live above a shop in the outskirts of Baghdad...? No!

I support a massive reorganisation and rearmament of the Canadian Forces. Do you know why? It is because Canada can no longer depend upon the United States to fight its battles. Because, quite frankly, Canada's biggest security threat does not come from Islamic terrorists, rouge states or Vladimir Putin on crack - it comes from the United States of America. We're far more inclined to get hurt from being allied with the US than we are for helping people - thus, why should we help you? A military of several hundred thousand personnel might be just enough to pull some damned weight independent of you lot.

I love our military. My father served in it for 20 years, and I had to watch him be posted to Egypt, Israel and Rwanda, all in the interests of peace. The reason the Canadian military is in shambles is because the United States wants us to help fight its God-damned "War on Terror". After September 11th, most of us were as horrified as most Americans. But the thing is, by going off and turning a justified threat to national security into a damned 21st Century Crusade. Well, if you people are going to take a just reason and turn it into an unjust war, then you shall not be aided and abetted by Canada!

I'm damned left-wing, and I support these policies because I realise what the consequences of them are. If the US wants Canada to remain a docile ally, then it should want us to keep our military small.

Stephen Harper is a lier? Actually, I think he's quite clear about what he believes. I was more referring to Martin saying he knew nothing about the Sponsorship Scandal. Harper isn't perfect, hell I didn't want him party leader but I'd rather have him PM over Martin. But seeing as your pissed that not everyone loves Paul Martin, I won't keep pushing your buttons. But I will say this: since the last Federal Election, Martin was the only party leader not to visit Saskatchewan and he has the most to lose here with his right hand man, Mr. Goodale. Even Gilles Duceppe visited Regina and he's got nothing to gain by doing that. Or maybe he doesn't want to face the angry hoards of farmers by trying to justify the gun registry.

You'll support ralph goodale because he shows integritty time and time again. You know that that man from regina is more influental than annyone the conservatives would bring in from regina. Wouldn't you perfer the right hand man to a back bencher ? I tell you what, i don't support the gun registry because Cherchien was too left wing and though bringing in this feel good legislation would do something. On the other hand i think martin has neglected this programe so he can scap it when noones looking (good idea).

Well then come up with something. Change only happens when people take it by the horns.
I already have. But when you have a secret plan, you don't just announce it to the world.

It's a work in progress, though. All I'll do is refer to it as the "Labour Party of Canada", in no way related to the Labour Party of GB.

Yea, we're all cowards because we don't support an unjustified war. War should be avoided at all costs. Go join the forces and head to Iraq, leaving your family and friends behind, with the chance of never returning and see how fun it is. I'd be hummiliated to live in Canada if we took part in the war. Your ignorance is overwhelming. You know you're an imbecile when you call someone a coward for not taking part in a war that you have no reason to be in. Does killing innocent people make you feel tough? What a sad world we live in. You disgust me.

I don't have to do that. My father has already done that as has my cousin that is in the Navy. I know what a deployment is like. I know what my military personel go through for training. I know what the military life is like. Try making friends then leaving them a few years later without explanation as to where you are going. I've been there. I was 8 when I left Missouri but I remember what I felt when I left Missouri to move to Pennsylvania. I know what orders are. My dad participated in the first Gulf War and is currently OVERSEAS IN THE WARZONE doing what he SIGNED UP to do.

As for calling Canadians cowards, I was being sarcastic. As anyone ever asked what the Canadian military thought about this? I know they were more than glad to help us in Afghanistan and are doing a fine job at that.

Now onto me! I don't take pleasure in seeing anyone get killed however, I do believe in following international law. Something that I think has escaped you was that Saddam Hussein has violated International Law when he violated UN Resolutions as well as the Cease-Fire. Therefore, I supported the action to oust Saddam Hussein. I didn't care about the WMDs just as long as the Tyrant Hussein was gone from power.

Let me ask you this? Haven't you heard of any good news coming out of Iraq?

You'll support ralph goodale because he shows integritty time and time again. You know that that man from regina is more influental than annyone the conservatives would bring in from regina. Wouldn't you perfer the right hand man to a back bencher ? I tell you what, i don't support the gun registry because Cherchien was too left wing and though bringing in this feel good legislation would do something. On the other hand i think martin has neglected this programe so he can scap it when noones looking (good idea).


I have nothing against Ralph as a human being and an MP. What I'm against is what his party has done. Sadly, I can't vote either way because I'm only 16 :(. But I do door knocking and call people (my god, I got yelled at soooo many times). How'd you know I live in Goodale's riding though? i just said I supported a Liberal but good guess.

Well then come up with something. Change only happens when people take it by the horns.

LOL
In 1993 The Liberals won the election and the new Bloc Quebec lost
In 1997 The Liberals won the election and the new Reform Party lost
In 2000 The Liberals won the election and the new Canadian Alliance lost
In 2004 The Liberals won the election and the new Conservative party lost

All the parties that lost as a matter of fact made up the opposition, the liberlas are to popular to be beaten.

I have nothing against Ralph as a human being and an MP. What I'm against is what his party has done. Sadly, I can't vote either way because I'm only 16 :(. But I do door knocking and call people (my god, I got yelled at soooo many times). How'd you know I live in Goodale's riding though? i just said I supported a Liberal but good guess.
Your Location says Regina ;)

As for the not-voting, the horrible thing is, I'm in the same boat and the same year.

The good thing is, because of the backlash against Bush, our generation is becoming far more political than the one that preceded it.

I live in Peter Milliken's riding, and I think he's a good guy (as far as politics goes), but that doesn't mean I would vote for him. Party politics trump personality, these days.

I have nothing against Ralph as a human being and an MP. What I'm against is what his party has done. Sadly, I can't vote either way because I'm only 16 :(. But I do door knocking and call people (my god, I got yelled at soooo many times). How'd you know I live in Goodale's riding though? i just said I supported a Liberal but good guess.
You live in regina,....and ralph goodale was the only liberal mp to win in regina and all of Sask.

Your Location says Regina ;)

As for the not-voting, the horrible thing is, I'm in the same boat and the same year.

The good thing is, because of the backlash against Bush, our generation is becoming far more political than the one that preceded it.

I live in Peter Milliken's riding, and I think he's a good guy (as far as politics goes), but that doesn't mean I would vote for him. Party politics trump personality, these days.

There are 4 seats in Regina, I just happen to live in Goodale's.

There are 4 seats in Regina, I just happen to live in Goodale's.
He is, as Queensland said, the only Liberal there. Thus...

You live in regina,....and ralph goodale was the only liberal mp to win in regina and all of Sask.


He was also the only Liberal that had a prayer of winning here. Well maybe Gary Anderson but no one knows who he is :D.

Cowardly? I have friends whose parents are in the military - would I want them to go fight and die in a pointless war that looks like a Vietnam movie set plunked down in the desert? As for Afghanistan, no - that was justified. The United States had something approaching a credible reason for being there - unlike Iraq. Does Osama bin Laden live above a shop in the outskirts of Baghdad...? No!

My Dad is in the Military of the United States and is currently in the warzone. He didn't want to go over there and leave me and my mom and our cat behind. However, he believes in what he is doing is just. My mother also served 6 years in the military. Half of my family on my dad's side was in at one point and I have had cousins in the service too with one of them still in it. They too believe that the cause is just. I, too, didn't want them to go over there to be possibly being killed, but they are in the service and I have great admiration for what they signed on to do.

I support a massive reorganisation and rearmament of the Canadian Forces. Do you know why? It is because Canada can no longer depend upon the United States to fight its battles. Because, quite frankly, Canada's biggest security threat does not come from Islamic terrorists, rouge states or Vladimir Putin on crack - it comes from the United States of America. We're far more inclined to get hurt from being allied with the US than we are for helping people - thus, why should we help you? A military of several hundred thousand personnel might be just enough to pull some damned weight independent of you lot.

How are we a threat to you? Despite the fact that we are bigger, more powerful and have a larger military than you, how are we threatening you when we have the longest, un militarized boarder on the ENTIRE PLANET? We have had full peaceful relations for over a hundred plus years. Now, I'll Ask you the same question! If you don't like us as allies anymore, why don't you convince your leaders then to pull out of NATO and any other military alliance?

I love our military. My father served in it for 20 years, and I had to watch him be posted to Egypt, Israel and Rwanda, all in the interests of peace. The reason the Canadian military is in shambles is because the United States wants us to help fight its God-damned "War on Terror". After September 11th, most of us were as horrified as most Americans. But the thing is, by going off and turning a justified threat to national security into a damned 21st Century Crusade. Well, if you people are going to take a just reason and turn it into an unjust war, then you shall not be aided and abetted by Canada!

Good! I'm glad that he served in the military. My dad has served over 30 years in our military forces. I had to see my dad go to Kosovo, Bosnia, Germany, Africa, Kuwait, and many other places that I could name. He has been under hostile fire many times. I fear for him every time he travels because I don't know what will happen to him. As for it being in shambles because of the war on terror, how the hell did you come up with that one? Its been declining for years BEFORE the War on Terror started.

I'm damned left-wing, and I support these policies because I realise what the consequences of them are. If the US wants Canada to remain a docile ally, then it should want us to keep our military small.

I don't think they want it to be small. I think they want to see it modernize and grow. I don't think you know what size the US wants your military to be and it won't help to speculate so I won't even try.

I hope the next Prime Minister has a last name that starts with "S." That way, when something goes wrong in North America, we can blame it on Canada's P.M.S.

LOL
In 1993 The Liberals won the election and the new Bloc Quebec lost
In 1997 The Liberals won the election and the new Reform Party lost
In 2000 The Liberals won the election and the new Canadian Alliance lost
In 2004 The Liberals won the election and the new Conservative party lost

All the parties that lost as a matter of fact made up the opposition, the liberlas are to popular to be beaten.

Sounds familiar! Where did I hear similiar things?

Oh that's right! From the Democrats. They've had a hold on the US Congress for Years until 1994 when the House of Representatives turned Republican follwed 6 years later to the Republican Party in the Senate!

Never count on winning all the time. Sooner or later, the Liberals will be beat and when they do, I feel sorry for the Liberal party of Canada because they will not know how to react much like the Democrats don't know how to react right now.

I hope the next Prime Minister has a last name that starts with "S." That way, when something goes wrong in North America, we can blame it on Canada's P.M.S.

Now that is funny! LOL

How are we a threat to you? Despite the fact that we are bigger, more powerful and have a larger military than you, how are we threatening you when we have the longest, un militarized boarder on the ENTIRE PLANET? We have had full peaceful relations for over a hundred plus years. Now, I'll Ask you the same question! If you don't like us as allies anymore, why don't you convince your leaders then to pull out of NATO and any other military alliance?
I believe I just explained that. Besides, everyone knows American neo-conservatives see Canada as Soddom and Gommorah, conviently located across the border.

You are a threat to us in the same manner that you were a threat to Spain (does March 11th, 2004 ring a bell?)

And believe me, I'm trying. Don't think I don't see the consequences of what I'm saying.

Good! I'm glad that he served in the military. My dad has served over 30 years in our military forces. I had to see my dad go to Kosovo, Bosnia, Germany, Africa, Kuwait, and many other places that I could name. He has been under hostile fire many times. I fear for him every time he travels because I don't know what will happen to him. As for it being in shambles because of the war on terror, how the hell did you come up with that one? Its been declining for years BEFORE the War on Terror started.
It has been declining for years, but that was as a result of a major need to get this country out of debt - Chretien put those policies into play as a need to reduce military spending.

The reason I said that is because otherwise, it wouldn't matter. What are we getting out of this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The military shouldn't have to participate in this. It is this kind of heavy-handed military action that caused bin Laden to hate the US in the first place, as with many other Muslims.

I don't think they want it to be small. I think they want to see it modernize and grow. I don't think you know what size the US wants your military to be and it won't help to speculate so I won't even try.
Do you? I thought not. Frankly, you aren't privy to high-end political planning.

However, what the United States wants, as its actions recently so impeccably drill into our heads states, is that it wants to rule the world. Seriously. And while it may want allies, it wants allies that cannot challenge it, even collectively. It is a matter of unopposed domination.

Sounds familiar! Where did I hear similiar things?

Oh that's right! From the Democrats. They've had a hold on the US Congress for Years until 1994 when the House of Representatives turned Republican follwed 6 years later to the Republican Party in the Senate!

Never count on winning all the time. Sooner or later, the Liberals will be beat and when they do, I feel sorry for the Liberal party of Canada because they will not know how to react much like the Democrats don't know how to react right now.

For the last 100 years the liberal party has been doing long terms while conservatives to very short derms less frequently. Since confederation liberal governments have spent 85 years as the government while conservatives have spent 45 with 2 years margin of error in my calculations.

For the last 100 years the liberal party has been doing long terms while conservatives to very short derms less frequently. Since confederation liberal governments have spent 85 years as the government while conservatives have spent 45 with 2 years margin of error in my calculations.


We had the prime ministers with the shortest terms I believe, Kim Campbell and Joe Clark. Funny, that the redneck party is the one with the woman PM?

I believe I just explained that. Besides, everyone knows American neo-conservatives see Canada as Soddom and Gommorah, conviently located across the border.

My god in heaven. I am a conservative but I DO NOT SEE Canada as that. I think you have misconceptions that the media is perporting if you want my opinion. Why not talk to an American and see what he or she thinks. You might be surprised at just what America Sees Canada as.

You are a threat to us in the same manner that you were a threat to Spain (does March 11th, 2004 ring a bell?)

How are we a threat to Spain? We haven't fought a war with Spain since 1898 and that lasted 4 months. Besides, it was the terrorists that did those horrific train bombings that tilted the elections to the Socialists thus giving another weapon to the terrorists. Kill enough civilians to change an outcome of an election. We had nothing to do with that and I wish you stop letting your prejudices get in the way.

And believe me, I'm trying. Don't think I don't see the consequences of what I'm saying.

I hope you do see them. You'll be a better person once you understand them and realize that the world isn't as black and white as the media portrays it to be.

It [ i]has[/i] been declining for years, but that was as a result of a major need to get this country out of debt - Chretien put those policies into play as a need to reduce military spending.

At the cost of National Defense. Frankly if the samething happened in the country, there'll be a revolt.

The reason I said that is because otherwise, it wouldn't matter. What are we getting out of this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The military shouldn't have to participate in this. It is this kind of heavy-handed military action that caused bin Laden to hate the US in the first place, as with many other Muslims.

Actually what made him mad was that Saudi Arabia came to the United States to protect them instead of Bin Laden's forces. Bin Laden didn't like the fact that there were christian soldiers on holy ground, forgetting that the Saudi Royal Family invited us there to defend Saudi Arabia from Saddam Hussein. He also doesn't like the fact that we support Isreal but now we really are getting into the realm of Foreign Affairs. Something I am studying currently at the University I attend.

Do you? I thought not. Frankly, you aren't privy to high-end political planning.

Neither are you so we both have nothing to complain about do we?

However, what the United States wants, as its actions recently so impeccably drill into our heads states, is that it wants to rule the world. Seriously. And while it may want allies, it wants allies that cannot challenge it, even collectively. It is a matter of unopposed domination.

If we wanted to rule the world dude, there wouldn't have been elections in Afghanistan! There wouldn't be elections going on in Iraq right now. Most of the Muslims in Bosnia wouldn't be alive if it weren't for NATO defending them (something that Hussein has forgotten)! We are now cutting back on the military in the Tsunami affect regions so we don't ruffle feathers. World Domination? No I don't think so.

For the last 100 years the liberal party has been doing long terms while conservatives to very short derms less frequently. Since confederation liberal governments have spent 85 years as the government while conservatives have spent 45 with 2 years margin of error in my calculations.

And the Democrats ruled the Congress for over 40 years and look at them. Sooner or later, the Liberals will lose Royally (no pun intended)! When they do, the Liberals will be scrambling just as the democrats are scrambling now. The State Democrats want to take control of the party away from Washington DC insiders and I applaud their efforts.

We had the prime ministers with the shortest terms I believe, Kim Campbell and Joe Clark. Funny, that the redneck party is the one with the woman PM?

Now that is funny.

I believe I just explained that. Besides, everyone knows American neo-conservatives see Canada as Soddom and Gommorah, conviently located across the border.
You know that thread about fallacies that's stickied at the top of the page? It might be helpful.

We had the prime ministers with the shortest terms I believe, Kim Campbell and Joe Clark. Funny, that the redneck party is the one with the woman PM?

Actually, the shortest serving Prime Minister was Charles Tupper for 2 months in 1896. Close behind was Turner for 3 months, but still shorter than Campbell and Clark.

I'd like to see Jack Layton as Prime Minister, or at least hold the balance of power, though the former is highly unlikely. I also don't think Harper can effectively govern Canada. If he wins, which is highly unlikely because of his far-right stance on issues, and that if the last election is any proof he needs to get his backbenchers to shut up, he will most likely have to face an opposition united in it's ideology. So we will probably have another Liberal for at least another decade, barring any (more) major scandals.

And the Democrats ruled the Congress for over 40 years and look at them. Sooner or later, the Liberals will lose Royally (no pun intended)! When they do, the Liberals will be scrambling just as the democrats are scrambling now. The State Democrats want to take control of the party away from Washington DC insiders and I applaud their efforts.

Every generation of canada becomes for left wing, to the point where sooner or later the Liberals will be the "right wing party", and the NDP will be the "left wing party", a micro example of this is in British Columbia where the NDP go so strong that the conservatives called it quits and the Liberlas Part moved to capture those votes. Other parties will make it into government im sure, but the Liberals are just to powerful to be anything other than Government or Opposition at least.

We had the prime ministers with the shortest terms I believe, Kim Campbell and Joe Clark. Funny, that the redneck party is the one with the woman PM?

Remember that commercial in 93 where she made fun of chrechiens facial paralisis ?

Actually, the shortest serving Prime Minister was Charles Tupper for 2 months in 1896. Close behind was Turner for 3 months, but still shorter than Campbell and Clark.

I'd like to see Jack Layton as Prime Minister, or at least hold the balance of power, though the former is highly unlikely. I also don't think Harper can effectively govern Canada. If he wins, which is highly unlikely because of his far-right stance on issues, and that if the last election is any proof he needs to get his backbenchers to shut up, he will most likely have to face an opposition united in it's ideology. So we will probably have another Liberal for at least another decade, barring any (more) major scandals.

In the last election the left should have done more to work together. The NDP can only hope to hold the balance of power and if a deal had been struck for rideings to be strategically lost by one party or the other than we could have seen a coalition government.

I would like to live to see the day a Westerner got into the PM's office...but not until Ralph Klein is dead, because I couldn't handle having him screw us federally too.

Hey Diefenbaker was from Saskatchewan I believe!

Every generation of canada becomes for left wing, to the point where sooner or later the Liberals will be the "right wing party", and the NDP will be the "left wing party", a micro example of this is in British Columbia where the NDP go so strong that the conservatives called it quits and the Liberlas Part moved to capture those votes. Other parties will make it into government im sure, but the Liberals are just to powerful to be anything other than Government or Opposition at least.

I'm sure that the Democrats felt the sameway until 1994 when the lost Congress for the first time in over fourty years. There will come a point when the Liberals will lose power for an extended period of time. Hopefully the Liberal Pary will be more gracious than the Democratic Party was when that occurs.

I'm sure that the Democrats felt the sameway until 1994 when the lost Congress for the first time in over fourty years. There will come a point when the Liberals will lose power for an extended period of time. Hopefully the Liberal Pary will be more gracious than the Democratic Party was when that occurs.

No problem, the conservatives are the best people in the country for getting the liberlas into power. All the conservatives have to do is govern for a few years and people all of a suddon have new found appreciation for the liberals.

Try being from BC and having to sit through such ridiculous events as the Sars benefit, or the rally that went around all of the poor people affected by the blackout or the hurricane. Meanwhile your province's main industry is trampled on mercilessly by the American politicians and your federal government does nothing to stop it or support the people affected by it. Enter the mad cow crisis, granted, there werent as many losses sustained as a result of that one cow as there were due to the softwood lumber fiasco, but the losses sure as hell kicked the living crap out of any sustained during or after the blackout - and the federal government sure took their sweet time helping out with that one. A lot of farmers were in dire straits at that point let me tell you, imagine how they felt to turn on the news and see the stuffed shirt politicans in Ontario feeding dollars into every failing industry that could get them a few ballots from the vote rich east. Its sickening really - we need a voice out here in the west. I have nothing against the people of Ontario, but the system is unfairly biased towards their needs.

I know. However, as with any representative election, it always slides to the most populous areas, and that is the East. Regardless, had Stephen Harper not run as George W. Bush II the Conservatives might have had a chance.

As for the debate over the Liberals: if the Conservatives ever find a way to moderate themselves (as the Ontario Conservatives did) they will stand a very good chance at gaining power. I'm personally pulling for John Tory (the new Ontarian Conservative leader) to win the next Ontarian election, because I like what he stands for (namely, giving the rest of Ontario attention as opposed to those crybabies at the corner of Bay and Queen (that would be Toronto...)).

No problem, the conservatives are the best people in the country for getting the liberlas into power. All the conservatives have to do is govern for a few years and people all of a suddon have new found appreciation for the liberals.

And so far, the democrats felt that they would be in power when the people got tired of the republican party. So far that hasn't occured. Just the opposite in fact.

In time my friend, the Liberals will be out of power for awhile and we'll see how they handle it.

I know. However, as with any representative election, it always slides to the most populous areas, and that is the East. Regardless, had Stephen Harper not run as George W. Bush II the Conservatives might have had a chance.

As for the debate over the Liberals: if the Conservatives ever find a way to moderate themselves (as the Ontario Conservatives did) they will stand a very good chance at gaining power. I'm personally pulling for John Tory (the new Ontarian Conservative leader) to win the next Ontarian election, because I like what he stands for (namely, giving the rest of Ontario attention as opposed to those crybabies at the corner of Bay and Queen (that would be Toronto...)).

I wish'em luck RomeW.

Remember that commercial in 93 where she made fun of chrechiens facial paralisis ?



I was 5 years old, so no. And they deserved to lose, unfortunatly that spawned the Reform Party.

Hey Diefenbaker was from Saskatchewan I believe!



He was from Prince Albert.

I'd go insane if Jack Layton was PM. And that isn't a joke.

He was from Prince Albert.

Is that a City or a Province? I don't remember a Province by the name of Prince Albert.

Is that a City or a Province? I don't remember a Province by the name of Prince Albert.

Prince Albert is a town in the Province of Saskatchewan.

Is that a City or a Province? I don't remember a Province by the name of Prince Albert.


It's a city of 40,000 in Northern Canada, surrounded by forests. Very beautiful, my family goes up to a lake near there each summer.

Prince Albert is a town in the Province of Saskatchewan.

It's a city of 40,000 in Northern Canada, surrounded by forests. Very beautiful, my family goes up to a lake near there each summer.

Thanks to both of you! :)

I predicted Carolyn Parrish will start her own party, which will be the Carolyn Pairrsh Party and she will run in every seat in Canada and win 155 of them. She will then apoint her cabinet of herself. Several Liberals and NDPers will cross the floor to join her party but they will all be required to legally change their names to Carolyn Parrish and for initiation, must stomp on a George Bush doll in public. Man, I'm really bored ;).

I predicted Carolyn Parrish will start her own party, which will be the Carolyn Pairrsh Party and she will run in every seat in Canada and win 155 of them. She will then apoint her cabinet of herself. Several Liberals and NDPers will cross the floor to join her party but they will all be required to legally change their names to Carolyn Parrish and for initiation, must stomp on a George Bush doll in public. Man, I'm really bored ;).

You know, I like her, if only because she speaks her mind. Yeah, she may not have a lot of tact, but she has the guts to speak her mind regardless of the consequence and I respect that.

I predicted Carolyn Parrish will start her own party, which will be the Carolyn Pairrsh Party and she will run in every seat in Canada and win 155 of them. She will then apoint her cabinet of herself. Several Liberals and NDPers will cross the floor to join her party but they will all be required to legally change their names to Carolyn Parrish and for initiation, must stomp on a George Bush doll in public. Man, I'm really bored ;).

Whaaaaat?????...And... Weird!!!!... And not happening buddy :)

Whaaaaat?????...And... Weird!!!!... And not happening buddy :)


What if she clones herself? I don't dislike her for speaking her mind, it's what she's saying that annoyes me. I'm a very twisted individual mind you.

What if she clones herself? I don't dislike her for speaking her mind, it's what she's saying that annoyes me. I'm a very twisted individual mind you.

You have to admit, Carolyn Parish has a quality few Canadian politicians possess...charisma. The leaders we have are maddeningly robotic.

You have to admit, Carolyn Parish has a quality few Canadian politicians possess...charisma. The leaders we have are maddeningly robotic.


if I were a federal party leader, you couldn't say that but yes, Martin, Layton, Harper and Duceppe are robots. It's usually the no name MPs with the charisma.

if I were a federal party leader, you couldn't say that but yes, Martin, Layton, Harper and Duceppe are robots. It's usually the no name MPs with the charisma.

Which is unfortunate. A leader should have the fighting spirit, willing to defend the values our country is based on. Mind you, just straight charisma is not necessarily good, but it would be nice if our leaders stood up for once and took a visible stand for Canada instead of just looking like they'd rather be shovelling their driveways.

Well for values, it depends on which part of the country you live in. My values as a Western Conservative will be different than yours as Liberal from the East (I'm assuming this), although we still want to live in a free, democratic society where people aren't afraid to say what they think and that we allow others to come here and have a chance to experience what we have. I believe that is a Canadian value. Or maybe I'm just exhausted and pissing in the wind.

Well for values, it depends on which part of the country you live in. My values as a Western Conservative will be different than yours as Liberal from the East (I'm assuming this), although we still want to live in a free, democratic society where people aren't afraid to say what they think and that we allow others to come here and have a chance to experience what we have. I believe that is a Canadian value. Or maybe I'm just exhausted and pissing in the wind.

"Canada" to me is a socially-progressive nation, one that upholds, defends and champions human rights. This, I believe, is something very few Canadians would disagree with, be it Conservative or Liberal.

For the record, I consider myself as a "centrist", or, what I call "realism", because I find the further you go on either side the more fantastic and idealistic the stance becomes. This isn't to say that either side are "wrong" and that I'm better than them- I just don't believe their ideas are very plausible in a practical sense. I don't assign myself to "Liberal" or "Conservative" because this fluctuates every day.

Parish went againts the leader, so she had to get dismissed, opposed to Cheyrl Gallant who went against Harper but was not dismissed. Both Parish and gallant did things completly inappropriat for an MP, but Martin was the only one with integrity enough to act accordingly.

if I were a federal party leader, you couldn't say that but yes, Martin, Layton, Harper and Duceppe are robots. It's usually the no name MPs with the charisma.

Like Raymonde Folco! What a name! Perfect for our next PM.

"Canada" to me is a socially-progressive nation, one that upholds, defends and champions human rights. This, I believe, is something very few Canadians would disagree with, be it Conservative or Liberal.

For the record, I consider myself as a "centrist", or, what I call "realism", because I find the further you go on either side the more fantastic and idealistic the stance becomes. This isn't to say that either side are "wrong" and that I'm better than them- I just don't believe their ideas are very plausible in a practical sense. I don't assign myself to "Liberal" or "Conservative" because this fluctuates every day.
Seeing as human rights are written right into our Constitution, it is pretty hard not to be identified with those who uphold them. I often wonder, though. For instance, a friend of mine who is a staunchly conservative Christian in the Maritimes actively voiced support for the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, until I pointed out to him that it supports the Declaration of Human Rights, which in turn supports the ideas of a minimum wage and unionization. Suddenly he's not so vocal. I have to wonder if Canadian pride in its rights is taught, rather than learned.

Both Parish and gallant did things completly inappropriat for an MP, but Martin was the only one with integrity enough to act accordingly.
I didn't read what came prior to this, so I'm taking it out of context. The last part of this sentence is why I changed from voting NDP to voting Liberal; namely, Paul Martin's behaviour in light of the Sponsorship Scandal. So many people are willing to overlook that he was up on that podium not 5 minutes after the Auditor General made her announcement, and he acted to "clean up" the government and his own party with forethought and deliberation.

Well for values, it depends on which part of the country you live in. My values as a Western Conservative will be different than yours as Liberal from the East (I'm assuming this), although we still want to live in a free, democratic society where people aren't afraid to say what they think and that we allow others to come here and have a chance to experience what we have. I believe that is a Canadian value. Or maybe I'm just exhausted and pissing in the wind.
Piss away, my conservative friend! You speak good words.

I didn't read what came prior to this, so I'm taking it out of context. The last part of this sentence is why I changed from voting NDP to voting Liberal; namely, Paul Martin's behaviour in light of the Sponsorship Scandal. So many people are willing to overlook that he was up on that podium not 5 minutes after the Auditor General made her announcement, and he acted to "clean up" the government and his own party with forethought and deliberation.


Are you fucking joking? Ummmm maybe its time to think of another party and quit giving these corrupt fools more chances to be corrupt. The core is rotten. The liberals are PRI mexico style.

Any party that has been in power as long as the liberals needs to go, whether they be left or right wing. Be in power that long and you become corrupt...

Are you fucking joking? Ummmm maybe its time to think of another party and quit giving these corrupt fools more chances to be corrupt. The core is rotten. The liberals are PRI mexico style.

Any party that has been in power as long as the liberals needs to go, whether they be left or right wing. Be in power that long and you become corrupt...
Thank you for the propaganda! It is much appreciated, however I will not be changing my mind anytime based on these particular words. Thanks anyway! :)

Why does the length a party is in power have any affect on its effectiveness? It has changed administration four times in my life-time alone.

Jayastan actually has a point!

Notice that Jayastan either party being in party that long.

Anybody that is in power for as long as the liberal party has been, people will become corrupt.

This goes for anyone from any party as Jayastan said.

Any party that has been in power as long as the liberals needs to go, whether they be left or right wing. Be in power that long and you become corrupt...

Yes, well provide me a viable alternative and I'll consider it. Geopolitical rump-end parties (the Bloc, the Reform/Alliance/New Tories) only serve the needs of localised interests. What we need are national political parties that serve a wider sampling of the populace.

Harper is all about Alberta, Albertan concerns, Albertan uptight prudishness, Alberta, Alberta, Alberta. The Bloc is just the same in their own provincial outlook.

If the new Tories want to form the next government, they'll need to drop the Alberta-driven social conservatism...it might play in Red Deer, but not in Rosedale. The old Progressive Conservative party, prior to being hijacked and subsequently left for dead by the excrable Brian Mulroney, had the right mix for Canadian conservative thinkers: Social progressiveness, with fiscal conservatism. These Republican-wannabes are sickening to watch as they flub it over, and over, and over...never once understanding how it is that they're going so wrong as to never form a Federal government.

Like I said, find me a viable alternative and maybe we'll talk. Otherwise, the Grits are good to go indefinitely. Though I myself voted for the NDP (big surprise, there hey Jay sweetikins?)

Thank you for the propaganda! It is much appreciated, however I will not be changing my mind anytime based on these particular words. Thanks anyway! :)

Why does the length a party is in power have any affect on its effectiveness? It has changed administration four times in my life-time alone.


:rolleyes: Remember umm the liberal party was out of power between #3 and #4, anyways many countries have term limits and the like. And while this is different for whole parties, only a complete partisan fool would not see that the liberal party is corrupt.

Personally I would vote liberal if they were not so corrupt. That party needs a change, which would come from losing power.

GO NATIONAL DAY CARE!

Are you fucking joking? Ummmm maybe its time to think of another party and quit giving these corrupt fools more chances to be corrupt. The core is rotten. The liberals are PRI mexico style.

Any party that has been in power as long as the liberals needs to go, whether they be left or right wing. Be in power that long and you become corrupt...

The cahnges between administrations in the liberlas is drastic. When i say that, the differeance between Martin and Chrechien is exemplified by how martin got rid of everyone in the party who was a loyal to chrechein.Same party, same title, differant government, differant men.

2008! He was just inaugerated last week!
Wrong. He's president until 20th January 2009.

God help us all.

The cahnges between administrations in the liberlas is drastic. When i say that, the differeance between Martin and Chrechien is exemplified by how martin got rid of everyone in the party who was a loyal to chrechein.Same party, same title, differant government, differant men.


Well, i guess the liberals disliked ol fucked up face, as i believe only 5 were turfed...

And ummmmmmmm SPONSERSHIP ??? helllooo?

:rolleyes: Remember umm the liberal party was out of power between #3 and #4, anyways many countries have term limits and the like. And while this is different for whole parties, only a complete partisan fool would not see that the liberal party is corrupt.

Personally I would vote liberal if they were not so corrupt. That party needs a change, which would come from losing power.

GO NATIONAL DAY CARE!

SO if all the member were to change you would support them ? That happened last election remember ? The old prime miniters cabinet is gone from canadian politics and the Martin faction is in. This is the closes thing to a national revolution we have ever had in Canada and still thats not good enough for you ?

Well, i guess the liberals disliked ol fucked up face, as i believe only 5 were turfed...

And ummmmmmmm SPONSERSHIP ??? helllooo?

So when the prime minister, the deputy prime miniter, the finance minister,.....on and on and on, theres a whole article about the revolution in the party at wikipedia "liberal infighting" i think it was.

You'll notice that everyone involved with the sponsorship scandal has been fired, and martin himself was fired by Chechien, put the blam where it belongs.

Yes, well provide me a viable alternative and I'll consider it. Geopolitical rump-end parties (the Bloc, the Reform/Alliance/New Tories) only serve the needs of localised interests. What we need are national political parties that serve a wider sampling of the populace.

Harper is all about Alberta, Albertan concerns, Albertan uptight prudishness, Alberta, Alberta, Alberta. The Bloc is just the same in their own provincial outlook.

If the new Tories want to form the next government, they'll need to drop the Alberta-driven social conservatism...it might play in Red Deer, but not in Rosedale. The old Progressive Conservative party, prior to being hijacked and subsequently left for dead by the excrable Brian Mulroney, had the right mix for Canadian conservative thinkers: Social progressiveness, with fiscal conservatism. These Republican-wannabes are sickening to watch as they flub it over, and over, and over...never once understanding how it is that they're going so wrong as to never form a Federal government.

Like I said, find me a viable alternative and maybe we'll talk. Otherwise, the Grits are good to go indefinitely. Though I myself voted for the NDP (big surprise, there hey Jay sweetikins?)


nothing wrong with voting for socialists I just hope they never are in power. And I actually agree that the conservatives need to tone down the religious yankee repubician BS. Harper needs to go, they will never win with that guy.

Eventually, as the conversatives gain more acceptance in the east as being not just reformers your little socialist agenda is in deep trouble as I personally think most canadians are a little right of center. And bullshit like a national day care system is not going to fly.

Is it too much to ask the government to run health care, the military, build roads and provide us with cheap education and get out of the other stuff?

SO if all the member were to change you would support them ? That happened last election remember ? The old prime miniters cabinet is gone from canadian politics and the Martin faction is in. This is the closes thing to a national revolution we have ever had in Canada and still thats not good enough for you ?


Everybody that was in that party needs to go. I would rather have NDPers in power for a term than continue to have the same corrupt government in power.

Wrong. He's president until 20th January 2009.

God help us all.

But the election is in 2008!

Everybody that was in that party needs to go. I would rather have NDPers in power for a term than continue to have the same corrupt government in power.

OK how about this, name how PAUL MATIN's government has been demontraiting corruption! Paul Martin not the former prime miniter, the currents one, yes thats right, the current one.

:rolleyes: Remember umm the liberal party was out of power between #3 and #4, anyways many countries have term limits and the like. And while this is different for whole parties, only a complete partisan fool would not see that the liberal party is corrupt.

Personally I would vote liberal if they were not so corrupt. That party needs a change, which would come from losing power.

GO NATIONAL DAY CARE!
Go National Day Care! indeed.

Can you explain how they are corrupt?

And ummmmmmmm SPONSERSHIP ??? helllooo?
The Sponsorship Programme is finished. So please explain again how is Martin's corrupt?

What are you talking about? non-confidence election?

And I'd support Paul Martin until the day he dies, or I do, whichever comes first.

A non-confidence election is called when the minority government is defeated in commons, at which point the oposition can force them to call an election.

The Liberals bring nothing but death to the Canadian people.
They are destroying your country.
WAKE UP!

Kill yourself now. Though I'd rather have the Greens in power, the Liberals are better than the homophobic Conservatives.

Hi again Hitler Jr. Still squatting on my brother's land I see...I see you have once again intruded on a real discussion...now go read a book about Canadian politcs so you realise Liberal doesn't mean liberal.

He should get off everyone's land. P.S. Who's your brother? (I.e. what's that phrase about?)

Oh, and I think (and hope) Paul Martin stays in power for a little bit. But I do want McGuinty out of Ontario! Bastard raised taxes....

Oh, and I think (and hope) Paul Martin stays in power for a little bit. But I do want McGuinty out of Ontario! Bastard raised taxes....

I dunno, from all the taxes the conservativs cut, youd think that returning it back to a normal level would be alright. People don't want to give up heathcare but they also don't want to pay more taxes lol. Supporting a deficit requires money so if you bear the payments (taxes on your part) to eleminate that defict, than your taxes will go down when it is gone.

I voted NDP until the last election. Layton is an ass, and Paul Martin's performance in light of the Sponsorship Scandal impressed me.

I dunno, from all the taxes the conservativs cut, youd think that returning it back to a normal level would be alright. People don't want to give up heathcare but they also don't want to pay more taxes lol. Supporting a deficit requires money so if you bear the payments (taxes on your part) to eleminate that defict, than your taxes will go down when it is gone.

The healthcare system is a waste right now. It needs to be rethunk, reorganized and changed. A two-tier system is the best option; I can't understand why some people are so vehemontly opposed to it. It would help everyone...

The healthcare system is a waste right now. It needs to be rethunk, reorganized and changed. A two-tier system is the best option; I can't understand why some people are so vehemontly opposed to it. It would help everyone...

If a doctor can make more money buy having a privatized hospital, the skilled doctors would leave their government jobs to make more money, and regular canadians who can't afford to get to private hospitals would be stuck with the left overs.

If a doctor can make more money buy having a privatized hospital, the skilled doctors would leave their government jobs to make more money, and regular canadians who can't afford to get to private hospitals would be stuck with the left overs.

I see your point, but the government can balance it the same way two companies fighting over one contractor can. If the doctor will make $100000 a year privately, the government will pay him $101000. That way, there are still skilled doctors in the public system, and the people who want to pay will have skilled doctors as well.

I see your point, but the government can balance it the same way two companies fighting over one contractor can. If the doctor will make $100000 a year privately, the government will pay him $101000. That way, there are still skilled doctors in the public system, and the people who want to pay will have skilled doctors as well.

LOL, then youd have to pay for the private doctor and increased taxes

I see your point, but the government can balance it the same way two companies fighting over one contractor can. If the doctor will make $100000 a year privately, the government will pay him $101000. That way, there are still skilled doctors in the public system, and the people who want to pay will have skilled doctors as well.
Companies do not fight over contractors; does that really happen anywhere in the real world? Contractors bid for jobs, not the other way around.

Companies do not fight over contractors; does that really happen anywhere in the real world? Contractors bid for jobs, not the other way around.

My bad, I used a bad example. But my idea is still there: the government offers some doctors more than they'd make (on average) in a private hospital.

To your other point: Not if it's done right. A majority of people wouldn't want to pay for private care, therefore some doctors would have to stay in the public system.

Imagine you have 10000 people and 5 doctors. If only 20 of thoes 10000 are willing to pay for private treatment, are all 5 doctors going to go into private practice and compete for the patients? Probably not. One might to into private practice and the rest remain in the public system. It's all about tracking the demand.

My bad, I used a bad example. But my idea is still there: the government offers some doctors more than they'd make (on average) in a private hospital.

To your other point: Not if it's done right. A majority of people wouldn't want to pay for private care, therefore some doctors would have to stay in the public system.

Imagine you have 10000 people and 5 doctors. If only 20 of thoes 10000 are willing to pay for private treatment, are all 5 doctors going to go into private practice and compete for the patients? Probably not. One might to into private practice and the rest remain in the public system. It's all about tracking the demand.

I still think it could have potential for failure, but the whole reasion i don't like it is people paying to be heathyer than other canadians that cannot afford it.

I still think it could have potential for failure, but the whole reasion i don't like it is people paying to be heathyer than other canadians that cannot afford it.

So you support a system that requires weeks of waiting for elective surgery or any other form of medical care?

I wonder how many Canadians cross the boarder to receive medical care because they got tired of waiting.

So you support a system that requires weeks of waiting for elective surgery or any other form of medical care?

I wonder how many Canadians cross the boarder to receive medical care because they got tired of waiting.

Yeah, but it deepends on what you consider elective. Privatization is scary, that other people can recive prompter and possibly better treatment than other canadians is a grey area.

Yeah, but it deepends on what you consider elective. Privatization is scary, that other people can recive prompter and possibly better treatment than other canadians is a grey area.

True it is a gray area but it is something of a concern for us here in the States.

So you support a system that requires weeks of waiting for elective surgery or any other form of medical care?

I wonder how many Canadians cross the boarder to receive medical care because they got tired of waiting.

That's exactly the reason I support a two-tiered system. I'd probably never pay for the private servce, but someone might not want/not live long enough! to wait weeks or months for surgery. They therefore have to go to the US. A person should have the right to pay if they choose.

The Sponsorship Programme is finished. So please explain again how is Martin's corrupt?He was Finance Minister while the program was in place. There are two possible scenarios. One, he was involved and hence he is corrupt. Two, he was truely oblivious to the on-goings and was incapable of preforming the duties of Finance Minister. If he cannot fulfill his role as Finace Minister, how can he fulfill his role as PM? He is either corrupt or incompetent. I favour corrupt; as ex-head of a major shipping company I doubt he is incapable.

A person should have the right to pay if they choose.I agree. Unfortunatly, the right to choice is not covered in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

He was Finance Minister while the program was in place. There are two possible scenarios. One, he was involved and hence he is corrupt. Two, he was truely oblivious to the on-goings and was incapable of preforming the duties of Finance Minister. If he cannot fulfill his role as Finace Minister, how can he fulfill his role as PM? He is either corrupt or incompetent. I favour corrupt; as ex-head of a major shipping company I doubt he is incapable.

I agree. Unfortunatly, the right to choice is not covered in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

It may just be that Martin is not corrupt. I think maybe Martin have had some objections to the sponsorship scandal when he was finance minister but Chretien would not let Martin interfere, I don't think Martin played any significant role in the scandal.

So you support a system that requires weeks of waiting for elective surgery or any other form of medical care?
What is the big deal on waiting for elective surgery?

I wonder how many Canadians cross the boarder to receive medical care because they got tired of waiting.
No need to wonder. If you are curious, go find the figures.

I know this much, that 45 million Americans do not even have a basic health care plan. At least ALL Canadians have health care coverage.

Yes, well provide me a viable alternative and I'll consider it. Geopolitical rump-end parties (the Bloc, the Reform/Alliance/New Tories) only serve the needs of localised interests. What we need are national political parties that serve a wider sampling of the populace.

Harper is all about Alberta, Albertan concerns, Albertan uptight prudishness, Alberta, Alberta, Alberta. The Bloc is just the same in their own provincial outlook.

If the new Tories want to form the next government, they'll need to drop the Alberta-driven social conservatism...it might play in Red Deer, but not in Rosedale. The old Progressive Conservative party, prior to being hijacked and subsequently left for dead by the excrable Brian Mulroney, had the right mix for Canadian conservative thinkers: Social progressiveness, with fiscal conservatism. These Republican-wannabes are sickening to watch as they flub it over, and over, and over...never once understanding how it is that they're going so wrong as to never form a Federal government.

Like I said, find me a viable alternative and maybe we'll talk. Otherwise, the Grits are good to go indefinitely. Though I myself voted for the NDP (big surprise, there hey Jay sweetikins?)
While I agree with most of your post, I cannot agree that Mulroney's governments practiced "fiscal conservatism". If you might recall, Mulroney's Tories doubled the national debt in 9 years, while raising taxes, and selling off government assets. The last Michael Wilson budget was a $42 Billion deficit.

The last 8 years under the Liberals, all the budgets were surplus and they have used the surplus to pay down the national debt.

He was Finance Minister while the program was in place. There are two possible scenarios. One, he was involved and hence he is corrupt. Two, he was truely oblivious to the on-goings and was incapable of preforming the duties of Finance Minister. If he cannot fulfill his role as Finace Minister, how can he fulfill his role as PM? He is either corrupt or incompetent. I favour corrupt; as ex-head of a major shipping company I doubt he is incapable.
And the difference in jobs, in duties, and in responsibilities, means nothing? To me it does mean something.

His awareness of the corruption within the Sponsorship Programmes is dealt with in his *dealing with it*, in his role as Prime Minister. His presence on the podium 5 minutes after the Auditor General made her announcement speaks volumes.

PS: Are you suggesting shipping companies are all corrupt??

His awareness of the corruption within the Sponsorship Programmes is dealt with in his *dealing with it*, in his role as Prime Minister. His presence on the podium 5 minutes after the Auditor General made her announcement speaks volumes.

What exactly has he done to "deal with it", as you say? Except looking increasingly uncomfortable as more and more crunchy details are revealed by Judge Gomery's comission, of course.

What exactly has he done to "deal with it", as you say? Except looking increasingly uncomfortable as more and more crunchy details are revealed by Judge Gomery's comission, of course.
Well, he initiated two inquiries (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/sponsorship_inquiries.html) into the scandal: one public and one federal. And the resignation of André Ouellet (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1106607012127&call_pageid=1076411360530&col=1076411360550) was no coincidence, a move that was at once swift and uncertain. I'm still not totally convinced that the man was not just following orders.

I'm not a big follower of the news, but the point, and the image I see, is that Paul Martin acted to "clean up house" soon after becoming Prime Minister.

Well, he initiated two inquiries (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/sponsorship_inquiries.html) into the scandal: one public and one federal. And the resignation of André Ouellet (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1106607012127&call_pageid=1076411360530&col=1076411360550) was no coincidence, a move that was at once swift and uncertain. I'm still not totally convinced that the man was not just following orders.

I'm not a big follower of the news, but the point, and the image I see, is that Paul Martin acted to "clean up house" soon after becoming Prime Minister.
Apparently there are 3 inquiries into the situation. Kudos to Martin!!

Yes..... kudos to Martin indeed.

Apparently there are 3 inquiries into the situation. Kudos to Martin!!
Yeah, but I can only confirm that he initiated two of them.

Seeing as human rights are written right into our Constitution, it is pretty hard not to be identified with those who uphold them. I often wonder, though. For instance, a friend of mine who is a staunchly conservative Christian in the Maritimes actively voiced support for the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, until I pointed out to him that it supports the Declaration of Human Rights, which in turn supports the ideas of a minimum wage and unionization. Suddenly he's not so vocal. I have to wonder if Canadian pride in its rights is taught, rather than learned.

I think that's exactly it...the idea of "Canada=human rights" is emphasized more in the education system as opposed to what exactly those rights cover. Plus, I think the mainstream media plays a big role in defining Canada as a champion for human rights as they always make a big deal out of how Canada should "do the right thing".

Eventually, as the conversatives gain more acceptance in the east as being not just reformers your little socialist agenda is in deep trouble as I personally think most canadians are a little right of center. And bullshit like a national day care system is not going to fly.

Is it too much to ask the government to run health care, the military, build roads and provide us with cheap education and get out of the other stuff?

I disagree. Canadians, from my experience, are centrist, but they're left-of-centre, not right-of-centre. Ideas such as medicare and cheap education are leftist ideas, not rightist.

If harper pulls a "Buchard" or "Stockwell" and leave when the goings get tough or he get embarassed, I would like to see Peter MacKay become the new leader. He would have won against harper had he put his hand in the leadership bid, but i think he didn't because the conservative parties needed eachother so he stepped down gracefully. I'd rather have the Red torys squaring off against the liberlas than the true blue, that way I wouldn't sooo upset if the Liberals we by chance to lose.

If harper pulls a "Buchard" or "Stockwell" and leave when the goings get tough or he get embarassed, I would like to see Peter MacKay become the new leader. He would have won against harper had he put his hand in the leadership bid, but i think he didn't because the conservative parties needed eachother so he stepped down gracefully. I'd rather have the Red torys squaring off against the liberlas than the true blue, that way I wouldn't sooo upset if the Liberals we by chance to lose.


I wanted MacKay to run for leader too but he made that deal with the SOB David Orchard. I'm more on the former PC side of the party, not the alliance.

He was Finance Minister while the program was in place. There are two possible scenarios. One, he was involved and hence he is corrupt. Two, he was truely oblivious to the on-goings and was incapable of preforming the duties of Finance Minister. If he cannot fulfill his role as Finace Minister, how can he fulfill his role as PM? He is either corrupt or incompetent. I favour corrupt; as ex-head of a major shipping company I doubt he is incapable.
Nonsense. It is not the job of the Finance Minister to manage each programme's execution; he has people for that. They report to him the bottom line figures. His active participation in any of the programmes on-going in the Ministry would make doing his job impossible --he'd have no time for anything else.

The Sponsorship programme was a good idea, and promoted a lot of good in its time. The only way the Minister would become aware of wrong-doings within the programme is if it was specifically brought to his attention that some of his people were arranging illicit contracts. Obviously this was not the case. The Minister is the one who will take responsibility for this --that too is part of his job --but the wrong-doing within the Ministry in no way reflects on his own personal character or integrity, and in my opinion should not carry forward into other career positions he assumes.