NationStates Jolt Archive

Will the 'NS Local 8976' acomplish eney thing or not??

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This is an unauthorized pool as you are not a member.

This is an unauthorized pool as you are not a member.
Unauthorized poll?
What?
Why should we care if other people talk about us?

This is an unauthorized pool as you are not a member.

Since when do you need to be a member of anything to make a poll on a public forum?

Since when do you need to be a member of anything to make a poll on a public forum?

Since this Union thinks that if they organize they can effect change on the forums..its a funny little idea..I'm still waiting on them to threaten a strike. Since the boards are now on Jolt they really no longer can affect Max on the matter. And Jolt would dare'em to..NS probably takes up a horde of bandwith and with less folks operating costs go down.

Since this Union thinks that if they organize they can effect change on the forums..its a funny little idea..I'm still waiting on them to threaten a strike. Since the boards are now on Jolt they really no longer can affect Max on the matter. And Jolt would dare'em to..NS probably takes up a horde of bandwith and with less folks operating costs go down.


We will change the forum and you will thank us for it.

We will change the forum and you will thank us for it.

Of course you will.

We will change the forum and you will thank us for it.
How are things going anyway?

:) How are things going anyway?

It'l be better after you sign up..

We will change the forum and you will thank us for it.

What will you change? All I've gotten from you thus far is a bunch of rhetoric and propaganda that would have made Goebbels proud.

:)

It'l be better after you sign up..
Sorry... too lazy. :(

Seriously. Any progress?

What will you change? All I've gotten from you thus far is a bunch of rhetoric and propaganda that would have made Goebbels proud.

Help us, you can affect change.

Help us, you can affect change.

You are a true politician. Why don't you detail your platform before I blindly sign up for your cause?

Sorry... too lazy. :(

Seriously. Any progress?


Yes we have some 40 members so far and we have a membership meeting scheduled for this weekend.

You amuse me.

You amuse me.

YOU amuse me. And get me sort of turned on.

YOU amuse me. And get me sort of turned on.
That's HOT!

You are a true politician. Why don't you detail your platform before I blindly sign up for your cause?

As I have said, the members will set the platform, the direction, select the negotiating team and the strategy. All I am saying is that change is required and that there is strength in numbers. I have my personal issues but they might not get agreed to.

why 8976?

You amuse me.

That pleases me.

why 8976?


Sequential number set by the International, each attempt at organizing gets a new number.

As I recall, there was a mass exodus of players from General leading into the Jolt forum move this summer; players who were fed up with the way General had evolved and tired of the way the moderators acted. Seems as though General has survived despite this exodus. Why do you believe you will be any different?

As I recall, there was a mass exodus of players from General leading into the Jolt forum move this summer; players who were fed up with the way General had evolved and tired of the way the moderators acted. Seems as though General has survived despite this exodus. Why do you believe you will be any different?

Why, because this time the exodus would be a political stand, not just people leaving of their own free will.

Personally I'm hoping for a strike. Then there'd be less spam and daft union threads.

...although, by the looks of a couple of those posts back up there, I could probably move most of the harem into this thread. Obviously I need to go hunt down Gael and WO and whoever it was who was ordering the free hats...

Why, because this time the exodus would be a political stand, not just people leaving of their own free will.

Personally I'm hoping for a strike. Then there'd be less spam and daft union threads.

...although, by the looks of a couple of those posts back up there, I could probably move most of the harem into this thread. Obviously I need to go hunt down Gael and WO and whoever it was who was ordering the free hats...

I think we could get away with posting just about anything in this thread and Myrth would allow it just because he would enjoy seeing WG's cause getting hijacked.

As I recall, there was a mass exodus of players from General leading into the Jolt forum move this summer; players who were fed up with the way General had evolved and tired of the way the moderators acted. Seems as though General has survived despite this exodus. Why do you believe you will be any different?

We are not quiting. A strike is a legal action. Organization and solidarity will make the difference. A strike has not been voted on! A strike is a last resort and a tool to make negotiation meaningful.

All this has to be discussed and agreed to.

I think we could get away with posting just about anything in this thread and Myrth would allow it just because he would enjoy seeing WG's cause getting hijacked.
:eek:

Deftones rule the world

We are not quiting. A strike is a legal action. Organization and solidarity will make the difference. A strike has not been voted on! A strike is a last resort and a tool to make negotiation meaningful.

All this has to be discussed and agreed to.

But a strike is the obvious end result. What other recourse do you possibly have? What other leverage do you have besides threatening to leave?

I think we could get away with posting just about anything in this thread and Myrth would allow it just because he would enjoy seeing WG's cause getting hijacked.

As I stated up there, this is an unauthorized poll. You are not hijacking our cause.

:eek:

Deftones rule the world

Bah, Chino Moreno couldn't sing his way out of a paper bag.

I think we could get away with posting just about anything in this thread and Myrth would allow it just because he would enjoy seeing WG's cause getting hijacked.

Excellent. Off I go to get the silk pillows and expensive library moved in here.

Hrm, I wonder if the harem needs a bar...

Any opinion S'd?

Bah, Chino Moreno couldn't sing his way out of a paper bag.
Duuuuuuude. I want to hear anyone else sing Hexagram anywhere near how he did it.

(subtle hijack ej?)

Excellent. Off I go to get the silk pillows and expensive library moved in here.

Hrm, I wonder if the harem needs a bar...

Any opinion S'd?

Obviously. Everything is better when booze is involved. Especially driving.

Duuuuuuude. I want to hear anyone else sing Hexagram anywhere near how he did it.

(subtle hijack ej?)

I want to hear him sing. Not scream into a mic after having a case of whiskey and 3 cartons of cigarettes.

I want to hear him sing. Not scream into a mic after having a case of whiskey and 3 cartons of cigarettes.
Like in Around the Fur, RX Queen, Minerva, Shut up and Drive, Bored and so many other songs?

I posted something like this on the MDSC boards on an offsite forum, but it was more or less ignored since it's something the Union folks don't really want to hear. Allow me to post it here, if I may.

In http://s6.invisionfree.com/PCRA_Central/index.php?showtopic=50&view=findpost&p=665663 it is supposed that we are consumers and that this union has some manner of leverage in that if they don't come to Jolt, they wont see ads. Six reasons that by gathering a large number of people to boycott these fora, that jolt will make us do something. I think. he never really comes out and says what it is he expects Jolt to do to us, so I'm just taking a shot in the dark here based on what's posted.

My response:

"Jolt's not gonna give a shit, trust me. They have a fairly large user base, and you're no larger than a tick on an elephant's ass to them. Let's say you can get, say, one percent of NS to up and leave the site. You may claim that this isn't your goal, but when you're talking about not being around to see ads [which is apparently your perceived leverage], you're talking about leaving the site, or at least the Jolt portion of it. Now, one percent of NS is somewhere between 500 and 700 users.

Jolt has approxomately 5,175 users by my count. This number is found by going to the "Members" page of the main jolt forum and multiplying the number of listed members per page [15] times the number of pages [345].

So, essentially, you're talking about removing about 9-13% of the Jolt users from viewing the ads. Seems like a respectable chunk, but [this is the important part] this assumes that you get at least 500 people to go with your operation and boycott the forums. 500 people. And that's just from the NS forum community, seeing as the vast majority of NSers haven't validated their forum accounts. Looks like you've got your work cut out for you.

I'll bet he doesnt respond here either :eek:

But a strike is the obvious end result. What other recourse do you possibly have? What other leverage do you have besides threatening to leave?

Threatening to leave is no leverage at all, either.
There can only be two possible outcomes to such a thing:

1. People strike. People realise how stupid and pointless this is, return to posting and this silly union thing is dead and buried.

2. People strike. People leave. Everyone else continues as normal.

Either way, the people involved come out worse-off so I really don't understand the logic behind the whole thing.

But a strike is the obvious end result. What other recourse do you possibly have? What other leverage do you have besides threatening to leave?

Step one is to get sufficient numbers to get the attention of the mOds. Once we have their attention we talk. Whatever the negotiating team and the mOds agree to will be brought back to the membership for a ratification vote. If the members like what they see they agree to the offer and it becomes our CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). If the members decline the offer we take action, it could be a strike, it could be many things.

The membership decides these things. You could be a part of this. Sign up today. Attend the membership meeting tommorrow.

Melkor, did you screw up that link on purpose?

Threatening to leave is no leverage at all, either.
There can only be two possible outcomes to such a thing:

1. People strike. People realise how stupid and pointless this is, return to posting and this silly union thing is dead and buried.

2. People strike. People leave. Everyone else continues as normal.

Either way, the people involved come out worse-off so I really don't understand the logic behind the whole thing.


Your lack of understanding will be your downfall.

Either way, the people involved come out worse-off so I really don't understand the logic behind the whole thing.

Maybe they're masochists? Really, really lame masochists?

This is an unauthorized pool as you are not a member.
damn nazi. also thanks for helping me make up my mind about joining, and if you havent figerd it out by now, i am not joining, and it will fall apart in a few months if your lucky, if not, it will happen sooner.

Your lack of understanding will be your downfall.

Your lack of common reasoning will be yours.

Step one is to get sufficient numbers to get the attention of the mOds. Once we have their attention we talk. Whatever the negotiating team and the mOds agree to will be brought back to the membership for a ratification vote. If the members like what they see they agree to the offer and it becomes our CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). If the members decline the offer we take action, it could be a strike, it could be many things.

The membership decides these things. You could be a part of this. Sign up today. Attend the membership meeting tommorrow.

What if the mods flat out refuse to hear your demands?

Your lack of understanding will be your downfall.
Dude. Wake up. Do yourself a favor.

Maybe they're masochists? Really, really lame masochists?

I think masochists would find them offensive.

http://s6.invisionfree.com/PCRA_Central/index.php?showtopic=50&view=findpost&p=662647 Is the correct link. I'll edit my post, I think I tried to text format it and did it wrong.

Maybe they're masochists? Really, really lame masochists?

From the effect their posts are having on my brain, I'd say they're sadists.

http://s6.invisionfree.com/PCRA_Central/index.php?showtopic=50&view=findpost&p=662647 Is the correct link. I'll edit my post, I think I tried to text format it and did it wrong.

Indeed. You reversed it. Silly n00b.

this (http://s6.invisionfree.com/PCRA_Central/index.php?showtopic=50&view=findpost&p=662647)

That's what you wanted, I think.

Heh. Yeah, thats right :headbang:

I posted something like this on the MDSC boards on an offsite forum, but it was more or less ignored since it's something the Union folks don't really want to hear. Allow me to post it here, if I may.

In http://s6.invisionfree.com/PCRA_Central/index.php?showtopic=50&view=findpost&p=665663 (this) post it is supposed that we are consumers and that this union has some manner of leverage in that if they don't come to Jolt, they wont see ads. Six reasons that by gathering a large number of people to boycott these fora, that jolt will make us do something. I think. he never really comes out and says what it is he expects Jolt to do to us, so I'm just taking a shot in the dark here based on what's posted.

My response:

"Jolt's not gonna give a shit, trust me. They have a fairly large user base, and you're no larger than a tick on an elephant's ass to them. Let's say you can get, say, one percent of NS to up and leave the site. You may claim that this isn't your goal, but when you're talking about not being around to see ads [which is apparently your perceived leverage], you're talking about leaving the site, or at least the Jolt portion of it. Now, one percent of NS is somewhere between 500 and 700 users.

Jolt has approxomately 5,175 users by my count. This number is found by going to the "Members" page of the main jolt forum and multiplying the number of listed members per page [15] times the number of pages [345].

So, essentially, you're talking about removing about 9-13% of the Jolt users from viewing the ads. Seems like a respectable chunk, but [this is the important part] this assumes that you get at least 500 people to go with your operation and boycott the forums. 500 people. And that's just from the NS forum community, seeing as the vast majority of NSers haven't validated their forum accounts. Looks like you've got your work cut out for you.

I'll bet he doesnt respond here either :eek:

You lose the bet.

Step one is to get sufficient numbers to get the attention of the mOds. Once we have their attention we talk. Whatever the negotiating team and the mOds agree to will be brought back to the membership for a ratification vote. If the members like what they see they agree to the offer and it becomes our CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). If the members decline the offer we take action, it could be a strike, it could be many things.

Union busting just does not work. People want change and they will sign up. Get used to seeing "Member of NS Local 8976"

Members keep up the hard work! Fellow posters help form the direction of this union. Members drive the direction.

I think masochists would find them offensive.
Well, I'm floating somewhere close to being an emotional masochist and I find them highly annoying, so you might just be right about that.

From the effect their posts are having on my brain, I'd say they're sadists.
They could always be both. Sado-masochism and all that.

You lose the bet.

Step one is to get sufficient numbers to get the attention of the mOds. Once we have their attention we talk. Whatever the negotiating team and the mOds agree to will be brought back to the membership for a ratification vote. If the members like what they see they agree to the offer and it becomes our CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). If the members decline the offer we take action, it could be a strike, it could be many things.
You haven't yet said what any of these might be...

You lose the bet.

Step one is to get sufficient numbers to get the attention of the mOds. Once we have their attention we talk. Whatever the negotiating team and the mOds agree to will be brought back to the membership for a ratification vote. If the members like what they see they agree to the offer and it becomes our CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). If the members decline the offer we take action, it could be a strike, it could be many things.

Union busting just does not work. People want change and they will sign up. Get used to seeing "Member of NS Local 8976"

Members keep up the hard work! Fellow posters help form the direction of this union. Members drive the direction.

How old are you?

Members keep up the hard work! Fellow posters help form the direction of this union. Members drive the direction.

hard work?

Hahaha!

Oh WG, is there no limit to your illogicalness?

You lose the bet.

Step one is to get sufficient numbers to get the attention of the mOds. Once we have their attention we talk. Whatever the negotiating team and the mOds agree to will be brought back to the membership for a ratification vote. If the members like what they see they agree to the offer and it becomes our CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). If the members decline the offer we take action, it could be a strike, it could be many things.

Union busting just does not work. People want change and they will sign up. Get used to seeing "Member of NS Local 8976"

Members keep up the hard work! Fellow posters help form the direction of this union. Members drive the direction.

Nice try. That's almost an exact copy/paste from a previous post. It does absolutely nothing to answer any of the points I've made.

You haven't yet said what any of these might be...


Its not up to me, we have to talk about it. If we have alot of radical members it might be something really radical. If we have a moderate membership it might be something else. In any case we first sign up members that are looking for changes.

hard work?

Hahaha!

Oh WG, is there no limit to your illogicalness?

What does logic have to do with it?

Its not up to me, we have to talk about it. If we have alot of radical members it might be something really radical. If we have a moderate membership it might be something else. In any case we first sign up members that are looking for changes.
I cannot conceive of anything that could be done short of *really* radical, and also illegal, things.

If we have a moderate membership it might be something else.
Why would we want a M0derate membership?

Its not up to me, we have to talk about it. If we have alot of radical members it might be something really radical. If we have a moderate membership it might be something else. In any case we first sign up members that are looking for changes.

I'm looking for change. I feel like my greatness is vastly underappreciated on these fora. I think at least every other thread should be one dedicated to my greatness. Can the union accomplish this for me?

What does logic have to do with it?

That's the point we've been making. Logic, along with it's good pals, Reasoning and Common Sense, doesn't seem to have any place in your schemes.

That's the point we've been making. Logic, along with it's good pals, Reasoning and Common Sense, doesn't seem to have any place in your schemes.

Reasoning and Logic aren't good pals anymore.

Logic stole Reasoning's girlfriend, Rationality.

And Common Sense isn't talking to either of them, because he doesn't want to get caught in the middle.

So that's obviously WG's excuse.

Dude, Myrth, there is such a thing as a free lunch. I got one yesterday.

I cannot conceive of anything that could be done short of *really* radical, and also illegal, things.

The real leverage will be alot of members. If we get that the discussion will become interesting.

The real leverage will be alot of members. If we get that the discussion will become interesting.

Why? The mods don't care if we all leave. It makes their job easier.

Why would we want a M0derate membership?

Hehehehe good one Brother! :D

The real leverage will be alot of members. If we get that the discussion will become interesting.
Nobody has yet explain to me what exactly having a lot of members will do...

That's the point we've been making. Logic, along with it's good pals, Reasoning and Common Sense, doesn't seem to have any place in your schemes.

Its a ruse to lull you into a sence of superiority.

Reasoning and Logic aren't good pals anymore.

Logic stole Reasoning's girlfriend, Rationality.

And Common Sense isn't talking to either of them, because he doesn't want to get caught in the middle.

So that's obviously WG's excuse.

That makes more sense than this union thing.

But then again, George Bush tends to make more sense than this union thing.

Its a ruse to lull you into a sence of superiority.
Well, the power to delete us at will would usually be called superiority...

Its a ruse to lull you into a sence of superiority.

I notice you didn't say a *false* sense of superiority. I wonder why...

:p

I notice you didn't say a *false* sense of superiority. I wonder why...

:p

Well so far it seems to be working out pretty well for them.

Why? The mods don't care if we all leave. It makes their job easier.

Reminds me of the time I heard a group of Teachers talking and one said "This would be a great job if it were not for all the students..."

Reminds me of the time I heard a group of Teachers talking and one said "This would be a great job if it were not for all the students..."

You never heard that.

You never heard that.

Time for the MIB-mind-flashy devices, y'think?

Time for the MIB-mind-flashy devices, y'think?

It's one of those lame ass anecdotes that everyone's "heard" but no one's ever actually heard.

It's one of those lame ass anecdotes that everyone's "heard" but no one's ever actually heard.

Yes, I know. Even if he had, it wouldn't be a proper parallel to this, since the mods don't get paid. Teachers + no students = no pay packet; mods + no posters = more free time.

Well, the power to delete us at will would usually be called superiority...

Delete everyone? Not going to be tolerated by the owner or the host.

No I don't recommend posting porn as a protest measure. Many have tried that out of desperation and got deleted/banned for their trouble. Others have quit over mOd rulings they could not agree with. One did that just recently.

No people, the time for individual action is over. The time for unified action is upon us. Lets get organized.
Sign up and attend membership meetings, if you want some privacy there is a region you could visit.

The real strength will come from many members.

Time for the MIB-mind-flashy devices, y'think?

I think they'd be rather redundant in this thread.

Yes, I know. Even if he had, it wouldn't be a proper parallel to this, since the mods don't get paid. Teachers + no students = no pay packet; mods + no posters = more free time.

Free time to do what? Get a real life? Run rampant in an empty forum?
Listen to thirty-two loyal mOd wanna-bees pander to their every whim with absolutely no original ideas?

BORING!

Free time to do what? Get a real life? Run rampant in an empty forum?
Listen to thirty-two loyal mOd wanna-bees pander to their every whim with absolutely no original ideas?

BORING!

I don't know, but I imagine they're big fans of earning money in order to eat, and of not being told they're tyrannical Nazis.

Free time to do what? Get a real life? Run rampant in an empty forum?
Listen to thirty-two loyal mOd wanna-bees pander to their every whim with absolutely no original ideas?

BORING!
Well, they *would* have less work to do with less posters.
And yes, the Mods do have a life outside of NS, at least I suppose they do. And the forum certainly won't end up empty at this rate.

Reminds me of the time I heard a group of Teachers talking and one said "This would be a great job if it were not for all the students..."

As a teacher, I protest. Usually, the quote is, "This would be an even greater job if not for the paperwork." :D

Free time to do what? Get a real life? Run rampant in an empty forum?
Listen to thirty-two loyal mOd wanna-bees pander to their every whim with absolutely no original ideas?

BORING!

Oooh, you really do like assuming that people who support the mods want to BE mods. I must admit that amuses me.

And I'm pretty sure most of them have real lives outside of NS anyway. They'd just stop checking here if no one posted.

This is an unauthorized pool as you are not a member.

Your disapproving opinion has been noted. I will remind you, however, that polls posted on the NationStates forums do not require authorization from any NationStates players.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

...

What does logic have to do with it?
No offense intended, but I find this statement both amusing and disturbing.

Let me ask you some questions you should be able to answer. The membership drives the union and you're going to be a member. You don't know what other members or potential members want yet, so you don't want to speak for them. Fine. I can understand that.

So, what direction would you like to see this union of yours go in? What changes do you intend to advocate? Have you heard the opinions of any other members or potential members? What changes do they want to advocate?

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

Well, they *would* have less work to do with less posters.
And yes, the Mods do have a life outside of NS, at least I suppose they do. And the forum certainly won't end up empty at this rate.

Not so far. Look we have to sign up members, you all can help with that. The final decision as to actions will come after the time for talking is over.

A ratification vote will be held to vote on the mOds final offer.

A ratification vote will be held to vote on the mOds final offer.
Final offer? I wasn't aware that we had made any offers.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Word Games, face the music allredy, it will be a cold day in hell befor this works, all of your argunments have been nothing but the rambelings of a deranged activist,----------------------, which ever you prefer.

Word Games, face the music allredy, it will be a cold day in hell befor this works, all of your argunments have been nothing but the rambelings of a deranged activist, or a compleat dumbass, which ever you prefer.
Futility and/or irrationality in his efforts, percieved or otherwise, does not justify flamebaiting. This will be quite enough.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Your disapproving opinion has been noted. I will remind you, however, that polls posted on the NationStates forums do not require authorization from any NationStates players.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

...


No offense intended, but I find this statement both amusing and disturbing.

Let me ask you some questions you should be able to answer. The membership drives the union and you're going to be a member. You don't know what other members or potential members want yet, so you don't want to speak for them. Fine. I can understand that.

So, what direction would you like to see this union of yours go in? What changes do you intend to advocate? Have you heard the opinions of any other members or potential members? What changes do they want to advocate?

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

I was just stating that the poll was not authorized by NS Local 8976. I quite understand that anyone can post any legal poll they like. Just wanted to make sure people understood that this was not started by the union. The comment was to clarify this point. The poll has our name on it and could be construed as being our poll, it is not.

Disturbing? Perhaps the entire concept of organizing is disturbing. The numbers of members signing up should indicate to you that people are looking for change. I have no data for this but maybe some of the "death by mOd Nations" might just have had issues that they wanted raised but had no voice with which to raise them. I do know that some people get treated rather rudely.

Amusing? Good! A fellow has to have some fun too!

Finally someone who is ready to listen!

I (not Local 8976) would like to see word games in general.
I (not Local 8976 would like mOds to behave the way they behaved to get the job in the first place AFTER they become mOds. Kinda like you Coger. Keep making helpful posts. Be nice. Set a good example. (People DON"T read the stickies and ALL the rules, DEAL WITH IT.) When you put something together do you READ ALL the instructions first? NO! Its human nature, deal with it. If you are tired of mOding SIGN OFF and think about it. Quit if you no longer enjoy it.
I (not Local 8976) like spam-lite here in general the spam forum is full of .. SPAMMERS.. Every thread does not have to be about something. A funny post is could be about humour. I had a word game DISCUSSION thread locked. Its spam PERIOD.
That's all for now from me.
Other posters wanted a say in mOd selection, a veto was suggested (although that could have been in another site) I suggested an impeachement procedure..
These ideas were posted in the other 8976 thread <here> (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=391522) , if I wanted to be rude I could say read that.
Someone wanted spam lite as well as a definition of same.
One poster wanted to present suggestions "a think tank" of sorts for your consideration.
One talked about equal rights and gave examples and links of unfair treatment.
More mOds was suggested (to improve their disposition). I was not alone in stating that their simply has to be other good mOds types out there. Like the universe, the place is just too big to preclude the possiblity of other intelligent life. You insult us by stating otherwise. Some mOds have said just that. Just plane arrogant to insult the posters like that.
There were some other ideas too. I am tired and off to bed shortly. I think that's enough for now.

Final offer? I wasn't aware that we had made any offers.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Of course not. We have not begun.

We have not selected a negotiating team.. We have not decided on our position or posted our position. Discussion has not even begun, all this takes time. I was explaining the process. Does no one understand the collective bargaining process? I can post some information tommorrow,,

I was just stating that the poll was not authorized by NS Local 8976. I quite understand that anyone can post any legal poll they like. Just wanted to make sure people understood that this was not started by the union. The comment was to clarify this point. The poll has our name on it and could be construed as being our poll, it is not.

Disturbing? Perhaps the entire concept of organizing is disturbing. The numbers of members signing up should indicate to you that people are looking for change. I have no data for this but maybe some of the "death by mOd Nations" might just have had issues that they wanted raised but had no voice with which to raise them. I do know that some people get treated rather rudely.

Amusing? Good! A fellow has to have some fun too!

Finally someone who is ready to listen!

I (not Local 8976) would like to see word games in general.
I (not Local 8976 would like mOds to behave the way they behaved to get the job in the first place AFTER they become mOds. Kinda like you Coger. Keep making helpful posts. Be nice. Set a good example. (People DON"T read the stickies and ALL the rules, DEAL WITH IT.) When you put something together do you READ ALL the instructions first? NO! Its human nature, deal with it. If you are tired of mOding SIGN OFF and think about it. Quit if you no longer enjoy it.
I (not Local 8976) like spam-lite here in general the spam forum is full of .. SPAMMERS.. Every thread does not have to be about something. A funny post is could be about humour. I had a word game DISCUSSION thread locked. Its spam PERIOD.
That's all for now from me.
Other posters wanted a say in mOd selection, a veto was suggested (although that could have been in another site) I suggested an impeachement procedure..
These ideas were posted in the other 8976 thread <here> (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=391522) , if I wanted to be rude I could say read that.
Someone wanted spam lite as well as a definition of same.
One poster wanted to present suggestions "a think tank" of sorts for your consideration.
One talked about equal rights and gave examples and links of unfair treatment.
More mOds was suggested (to improve their disposition). I was not alone in stating that their simply has to be other good mOds types out there. Like the universe, the place is just too big to preclude the possiblity of other intelligent life. You insult us by stating otherwise. Some mOds have said just that. Just plane arrogant to insult the posters like that.
There were some other ideas too. I am tired and off to bed shortly. I think that's enough for now.

Hmm I think you are taking the act of internet forum posting, which I view as a fun diversion, waaaaaaay too seriously. I am 100% certain that the vast majority of people here are just fine with the current rules. Very few people get threads locked or get deleted, and even fewer people who do will take it personally, declare vendetta against the mods, and go form a "union" that no one cares about and only manages to attract a couple dozen people, most of whom came for the free beer only.

Hmm I think you are taking the act of internet forum posting, which I view as a fun diversion, waaaaaaay too seriously. I am 100% certain that the vast majority of people here are just fine with the current rules. Very few people get threads locked or get deleted, and even fewer people who do will take it personally, declare vendetta against the mods, and go form a "union" that no one cares about and only manages to attract a couple dozen people, most of whom came for the free beer only.

If you know me at all you would laugh at this post. :D
I am all about a fun diversion, hence my name.
This union is about protecting that.

Oh and the beer is not free. It has a union logo on it. Nothing is really free. Except maybe sex in the sixties, although it had its cost too. ;)

If you know me at all you would laugh at this post. :D
I am all about a fun diversion, hence my name.
This union is about protecting that.

There I was thinking it was just about you taking pleasure out of annoying people.

Oh wait, nevermind.

If you know me at all you would laugh at this post. :D
I am all about a fun diversion, hence my name.
This union is about protecting that.
You missed my point, which is - nobody cares, and this union won't get anywhere. You and 2 other people may not be having fun but most of the posters here enjoy this forum.

If you want to make a word games thread I can recommend a very good uncensored forum with the most random spam concievable. The internet is full of things for everyone, if you don't find General to be a fun diversion then go to another forum.

There I was thinking it was just about you taking pleasure out of annoying people.

Oh wait, nevermind.

That is not what this is about. What makes you believe I enjoy anoying people? Have I ever made any indication of that?

You missed my point, which is - nobody cares, and this union won't get anywhere. You and 2 other people may not be having fun but most of the posters here enjoy this forum.

If you want to make a word games thread I can recommend a very good uncensored forum with the most random spam concievable. The internet is full of things for everyone, if you don't find General to be a fun diversion then go to another forum.

There are those that do care. Many just feel apathy, others might feel intimidated, some are scared off. Some folks, some mOds included don't take kindly to folks with different ideas.

I'm not going anywhere. I like it here, I just feel that, as posters, we have some rights and a vested interest in the place. Why not get more involved in shaping how it is run? Why are our ideas and suggestions discarded?

There are those that do care. Many just feel apathy, others might feel intimidated, some are scared off. Some folks, some mOds included don't take kindly to folks with different ideas.

I'm not going anywhere. I like it here, I just feel that, as posters, we have some rights and a vested interest in the place. Why not get more involved in shaping how it is run? Why are our ideas and suggestions discarded?
Or perhaps the vast majority of posters do not even feel the presence of the mods, because they genuinely agree with the rules here and General serves as a comfortable and fun place for the sort of discussion they like. I am fairly certain most people here log on a few times a week, make a few posts in political debates, and get on with their lives. Or they are like me who logs on for hours at a time... I equally enjoy political discussions and spam lite, and I don't really care about word games threads. Most of the people are not obsessed with word games... I doubt they care about your agenda. This represents the majority opinion so even if this place were a democracy the mods would still have no reason whatsoever to change the spam rules. I won't criticize your affinity for word games spam, but I just want to notify you that this union thing is pointless.

Or perhaps the vast majority of posters do not even feel the presence of the mods, because they genuinely agree with the rules here and General serves as a comfortable and fun place for the sort of discussion they like. I am fairly certain most people here log on a few times a week, make a few posts in political debates, and get on with their lives. Or they are like me who logs on for hours at a time... I equally enjoy political discussions and spam lite, and I don't really care about word games threads. Most of the people are not obsessed with word games... I doubt they care about your agenda. This represents the majority opinion so even if this place were a democracy the mods would still have no reason whatsoever to change the spam rules. I won't criticize your affinity for word games spam, but I just want to notify you that this union thing is pointless.

The point is to find out what the majority want. My agenda does not matter. The process will sort out what the majority want. For me the process is the thing. I see people who have grievances and want a place to air them. I also think that this is a really interesting experiment. Can we get a bunch of people interested? Will the mOds listen? I know collective bargaining works. I know it has its faults, but it does work. Having an independent third party can be really benefitial. This place could use some "sprucing up". Everything can be improved.

Or perhaps the vast majority of posters do not even feel the presence of the mods, because they genuinely agree with the rules here and General serves as a comfortable and fun place for the sort of discussion they like. I am fairly certain most people here log on a few times a week, make a few posts in political debates, and get on with their lives. Or they are like me who logs on for hours at a time... I equally enjoy political discussions and spam lite, and I don't really care about word games threads. Most of the people are not obsessed with word games... I doubt they care about your agenda. This represents the majority opinion so even if this place were a democracy the mods would still have no reason whatsoever to change the spam rules. I won't criticize your affinity for word games spam, but I just want to notify you that this union thing is pointless.

Woo, logical well-worded post. You get a cookie.

Unfortunately, WG doesn't give a toss how pointless this is. He's convinced he's on the Side of Good (tm) and that the silent majority agree with him. We'll just have to put up with this until he gets bored or loses computer access.

Woo, logical well-worded post. You get a cookie.

Unfortunately, WG doesn't give a toss how pointless this is. He's convinced he's on the Side of Good (tm) and that the silent majority agree with him. We'll just have to put up with this until he gets bored or loses computer access.


So logic = anyone who agrees with Shaed?

Are you suggesting I will get deleted? I own this machine and pay for the access and the home the cable is attached to and the taxes on the home etc. etc. nobody is removing my access, unless you are refering to this site, in which case that could happen. It has happened before. Are you in a position to make that happen again?

So logic = anyone who agrees with Shaed?

Are you suggesting I will get deleted? I own this machine and pay for the access and the home the cable is attached to and the taxes on the home etc. etc. nobody is removing my access, unless you are refering to this site, in which case that could happen. It has happened before. Are you in a position to make that happen again?

Actually, you were the one who said logic has nothing to do with your stance, not me. I'm just applauding someone who happened to make a well-thought out post.

And I was referring to the fervent hope that something might go terribly wrong with your computer access... some sort of EMP (although preferably without the nuclear blast usually needed to cause one), or rats gnawing through the wiring or something.

Oooh, maybe a strike. A refusal to post by people who insist on talking about 'rights' and 'deserving' and 'bullshit'.

I wasn't actually saying I could or would do anything. Just saying that I'd be tremendiously happy if I didn't have to see threads like this or the other union one. Ecstatic, even.

EDIT: I also don't think you'll get deleted. Not unless you actually break the rules, that is.
---
spelling errors due to laziness.

Actually, you were the one who said logic has nothing to do with your stance, not me. I'm just applauding someone who happened to make a well-thought out post.

And I was referring to the fervent hope that something might go terribly wrong with your computer access... some sort of EMP (although preferably without the nuclear blast usually needed to cause one), or rats gnawing through the wiring or something.

Oooh, maybe a strike. A refusal to post by people who insist on talking about 'rights' and 'deserving' and 'bullshit'.

I wasn't actually saying I could or would do anything. Just saying that I'd be tremendiously happy if I didn't have to see threads like this or the other union one. Ecstatic, even.

EDIT: I also don't think you'll get deleted. Not unless you actually break the rules, that is.
---
spelling errors due to laziness.

As I said in the other thread, if you don't like this idea just don't post here.

As I said in the other thread, if you don't like this idea just don't post here.

cough cough, hay did you forget who started this post allredy??

cough cough, hay did you forget who started this post allredy??

Hah, touche to Mr./Ms. FMP.

cough cough, hay did you forget who started this post allredy??

I get mixed up when there are multiple threads. Sorry about that.

I get mixed up when there are multiple threads. Sorry about that.

... That's pretty amusing considering all the protests you made originally about how this thread wasn't even an 'official' union thread.

But then, I have a warped sense of humour, I guess.

... That's pretty amusing considering all the protests you made originally about how this thread wasn't even an 'official' union thread.

But then, I have a warped sense of humour, I guess.
i agree, and its Mr. but im only 16 so dont call me that, just call me 'FMP' and nothing eles

Do you know whats going to be really funny. If he does manage to get a negotiation team together and the mods even agree to meet with him.

Negotiation team : Can we have...
Mods: No.

NT : Then can we have....
Mods: No.

NT : Alright then surely we can have...
Mods: No.

Do you know whats going to be really funny. If he does manage to get a negotiation team together and the mods even agree to meet with him.

Negotiation team : Can we have...
Mods: No.

NT : Then can we have....
Mods: No.

NT : Alright then surely we can have...
Mods: No.

lol!!

Do you know whats going to be really funny. If he does manage to get a negotiation team together and the mods even agree to meet with him.

Negotiation team : Can we have...
Mods: No.

NT : Then can we have....
Mods: No.

NT : Alright then surely we can have...
Mods: No.

Hee ^.^

Yes, we can only hope the negotiations happen in the public arena. It'll be like watching criminals thrown to the lions, only minus the gore.

Hee ^.^

Yes, we can only hope the negotiations happen in the public arena. It'll be like watching criminals thrown to the lions, only minus the gore.

well you could consider the mental pain that thay will go through as gore, maby

well you could consider the mental pain that thay will go through as gore, maby

Yeah, only you can't *see* mental pain. I'd have to imagine it. And if I'm imagining things anyway, I might as well just imagine normal gore. Mmmmgore

Okay, who's the joker who voted yes?

Okay, who's the joker who voted yes?

Wild guesses, anyone ;)

Protip: Not me.

I feel a union-dislike here. :(
If you don't like the union, be constructive and form some anti-union, otherwise you're just being anti-constructive.

I feel a union-dislike here. :(
If you don't like the union, be constructive and form some anti-union, otherwise you're just being anti-constructive.

Otherwise known as destructive? No we simply dont think its a good idea.

I feel a union-dislike here. :(
If you don't like the union, be constructive and form some anti-union, otherwise you're just being anti-constructive.

Uhhh... how exactly is pointing out the inherent logic flaws involved in the idea of this union not 'constructive'?

Just because we're the opposition doesn't mean we aren't being constructive. If you people can't handle opposition and criticism, you'd be better off staying on your own forum with it's uber-secret hidden sections where all us dissenters aren't allowed.

Even though that immediately destroys your credibility... but that's really happened regardless, so... I forgot what point I was making.

Also..how would making an anti-union be constructive? Technically wouldnt they do exactly what we're doing now? See? You dont need to organize for every last thing. We can make fun of this idea without any organization and still manage to come out ahead.

Also..how would making an anti-union be constructive? Technically wouldnt they do exactly what we're doing now? See? You dont need to organize for every last thing. We can make fun of this idea without any organization and still manage to come out ahead.

More importantly: wouldn't having an anti-union union be utterly, utterly ridiculous?

More importantly: wouldn't having an anti-union union be utterly, utterly ridiculous?

You do realize that this is NS? ;)

The way the union's going I don't really expect much of it. At the moment we're just going in circles, but I'll have to see how the meeting goes. I wasn't expecting to bring about sweeping change, but if the meeting goes badly then I'm quitting.

You do realize that this is NS? ;)

Shhhh. I'm in my happy place where people aren't stupid. Don't make me come back to the real world.

*wanders off humming*

Shhhh. I'm in my happy place where people aren't stupid. Don't make me come back to the real world.

*wanders off humming*

Sorry. Have you ever seen happy Gilmore?

Sorry. Have you ever seen happy Gilmore?

Nope. I only watch horror/thriller/action movies. If it doesn't have gore, I won't be able to pay attention.

I'm not even sure what the whole thing is (I vaugely read part of the thread, but you know me I'm not very literate). I decided it was enough for me to add to my sig though.

I'm not even sure what the whole thing is (I vaugely read part of the thread, but you know me I'm not very literate). I decided it was enough for me to add to my sig though.

I don't see it on your sig...

So, um... when are you guys going on strike? I'm getting sick of waiting...

Uhhh... how exactly is pointing out the inherent logic flaws involved in the idea of this union not 'constructive'?

Just because we're the opposition doesn't mean we aren't being constructive. If you people can't handle opposition and criticism, you'd be better off staying on your own forum with it's uber-secret hidden sections where all us dissenters aren't allowed.

Even though that immediately destroys your credibility... but that's really happened regardless, so... I forgot what point I was making.
Yeah, but it would be cooler if you had some catchy name for the union-opposition. Then we can compete! :p


So, um... when are you guys going on strike? I'm getting sick of waiting...
Sick? Already one Mod down. :D
We need first some demands.

Nope, won't change a darn thing.. but it's fun :)

So, um... when are you guys going on strike? I'm getting sick of waiting...

same here, at least there will be more bandwith then, which will make it easer to post....so go on strike allredy

So, um... when are you guys going on strike? I'm getting sick of waiting...

When it is appropriate. We have to have negotiations and bring the mOds final offer to the membership for ratification. If rejected we strike.

I have explained the process many times.

How's about I give you a big fat 'NO' right now. Will you go on strike right away?

How's about I give you a big fat 'NO' right now. Will you go on strike right away?


no

How's about I give you a big fat 'NO' right now. Will you go on strike right away?

oh good, the mods find the situation as amusing as I do.

I was just stating that the poll was not authorized by NS Local 8976. I quite understand that anyone can post any legal poll they like. Just wanted to make sure people understood that this was not started by the union. The comment was to clarify this point. The poll has our name on it and could be construed as being our poll, it is not.
I see. Okay, that's a little clearer to me.

Disturbing? Perhaps the entire concept of organizing is disturbing. The numbers of members signing up should indicate to you that people are looking for change. I have no data for this but maybe some of the "death by mOd Nations" might just have had issues that they wanted raised but had no voice with which to raise them. I do know that some people get treated rather rudely.
I think you misunderstand me. I don't use the word "disturbing" in connection to the concept of organizing, but rather in connection to your question "What does logic have to do with it?" This suggests to me that you don't seem to think that logic serves any purpose in this union you are attempting to form. This is what I find both amusing and disturbing.

"Members keep up the hard work! Fellow posters help form the direction of this union. Members drive the direction." --"Word Games", Post #51
"hard work? Hahaha! Oh WG, is there no limit to your illogicalness?" --"Shaed", Post #55
"What does logic have to do with it?" --"Word Games", Post #58

Amusing? Good! A fellow has to have some fun too!
In principle, I agree, though sometimes limits have to be placed on this.

Finally someone who is ready to listen!
I try.

1) I (not Local 8976) would like to see word games in general.
2) I (not Local 8976 would like mOds to behave the way they behaved to get the job in the first place AFTER they become mOds. Kinda like you Coger. Keep making helpful posts. Be nice. Set a good example.
3a) (People DON"T read the stickies and ALL the rules, DEAL WITH IT.)
3b) When you put something together do you READ ALL the instructions first? NO! Its human nature, deal with it.
4) If you are tired of mOding SIGN OFF and think about it. Quit if you no longer enjoy it.
5) I (not Local 8976) like spam-lite here in general the spam forum is full of .. SPAMMERS.. Every thread does not have to be about something. A funny post is could be about humour. I had a word game DISCUSSION thread locked. Its spam PERIOD.


That's all for now from me.

[The quoted post has been modified for clarity.]
1) Our position on word games is not likely to change. We classify it under the "spam" clause of the NationStates Terms and Conditions.
2) Have you noticed cases where a Moderators behavior has changed after being appointed? I'm not really aware of this phenomenon, myself.
3a) I'm not quite sure what this refers to. Are you suggesting that Moderators are unduly rude towards people who don't read the stickies? Aside from violations of the invasion rules and the UN proposal rules, I'm not familiar with any cases where Moderators tend to be harsh with people who don't read the rules beforehand. In the case of UN proposals, the proposal submission page and the FAQ make it clear that there are rules that need to be understood before proposing anything.
3b) Actually, yes, I do. Though, it's not often that I'm putting anything together.
4) Some Moderators have retired. I won't discuss the reasons for any particular Moderator quitting, but no Moderator has ever felt pressured to hold the position if he/she didn't like it.
5) This forum is in connection to the game NationStates.net. Thus, the content is expected to be NationStates related. As the game is political in nature, we also tolerate political discussion not related to NationStates itself. Now, even we Mods know the importance of being able to kick back and relax a bit, so we also allow non-NS, non-political stuff to be posted. Nevertheless, we don't want to go overboard with this (and I'm asserting up front that the Admins and us Mods are reserving the right to decide what constitutes "going overboard").

6) Other posters wanted a say in mOd selection, a veto was suggested (although that could have been in another site) I suggested an impeachement procedure..
7) These ideas were posted in the other 8976 thread <here> (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=391522) , if I wanted to be rude I could say read that.
8) Someone wanted spam lite as well as a definition of same.
9) One poster wanted to present suggestions "a think tank" of sorts for your consideration.
10) One talked about equal rights and gave examples and links of unfair treatment.
11) More mOds was suggested (to improve their disposition). I was not alone in stating that their simply has to be other good mOds types out there. Like the universe, the place is just too big to preclude the possiblity of other intelligent life. You insult us by stating otherwise. Some mOds have said just that. Just plane arrogant to insult the posters like that.
There were some other ideas too. I am tired and off to bed shortly. I think that's enough for now.
[The quoted post has been modified for clarity.]
6) Someone with a grievance against a staff member can post complaints in "Moderation" or E-mail salusa@nationstates.net. Is it being argued that this isn't sufficient?
7) Your connotations seem to connect this to point 3a, above, suggesting that "Mods read that" is similar to us telling player to read the stickies. The thread you link to is over 760 posts. The reading material for the rules is in the sticky topics; while there are a lot of sticky topics, the first post in each sticky is all that's really important. All other posts in a sticky are just the attached discussion. So, the stickies don't compare to the size of the linked thread.
8) Hmmm.... It has been admitted before that not all Mods agree with all current-standing policies. Personally, I'm of the opinion that allowing some spam-lite would be a good thing as I don't want people too uptight on these forums. That said, I'm of the opinion that we already allow "spam-lite" on the forums. We have I'll draw your picture! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=392908), To the girls of NS (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393621), Which SciFi Movie has the Worst Ending? (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393686), Webcomics (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393767), So what's your computer desktop look like? (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393571), and Paradise Club 38 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=392556) (or particular significance, note that there's been 38 of them). By the way, was this individual asking for a definition or suggesting a definition of "spam-lite"?
9) You'll have to be a little more specific. I don't understand what you mean.
10) I'm going to need the specific post number, here.
11) It's not just a question of intelligence; we have to be careful about who we trust with Moderator powers. We're busy enough as-is and we don't want to have to take time away from other tasks to clean up after a dirty Mod. There are many intelligent players out there, but we wouldn't trust them all with Mod powers. For the statement in blue: Do you have a link to an example?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

this is getting interesting

4) Some Moderators have retired. I won't discuss the reasons for any particular Moderator quitting, but no Moderator has ever felt pressured to hold the position if he/she didn't like it.

(snipped because... well, it was a really, really long post :p)

I think here WG means 'sign off' as in 'log out of NS and take a break from dealing with the stressful modding work'.

And obviously the logical extension of that is for us to build a Mod Resort (tm) where you guys can go to drink tea and listen to relaxing music and get given money for no obvious reason. A private jet (or jets) might also need to be involved...

So I'll just go get right on that ^.^

By the way, was this individual asking for a definition or suggesting a definition of "spam-lite"?

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator


I suggested the idea of defining spam-lite in the first place. What I had in mind was for there to be a dialogue with the mods, so we could come to an agreement together about what exactly constitutes spam and then put it in one of the stickies.

bump

I see. Okay, that's a little clearer to me.

Since the title contains Local 8976 it looks official.


I think you misunderstand me. I don't use the word "disturbing" in connection to the concept of organizing, but rather in connection to your question "What does logic have to do with it?" This suggests to me that you don't seem to think that logic serves any purpose in this union you are attempting to form. This is what I find both amusing and disturbing.

I find that too much logic gets in the way of a good argument :) This union will be democratic and will represent the majority of the members. Were it goes may or may not be logical.

"Members keep up the hard work! Fellow posters help form the direction of this union. Members drive the direction." --"Word Games", Post #51
"hard work? Hahaha! Oh WG, is there no limit to your illogicalness?" --"Shaed", Post #55
"What does logic have to do with it?" --"Word Games", Post #58


In principle, I agree, though sometimes limits have to be placed on this.

OK I agree but perhaps we disagree on where the line is..



[The quoted post has been modified for clarity.]
1) Our position on word games is not likely to change. We classify it under the "spam" clause of the NationStates Terms and Conditions.

How would one "word game thread rule " like the one "club thread rule?"

2) Have you noticed cases where a Moderators behavior has changed after being appointed? I'm not really aware of this phenomenon, myself.

I can't prove this but some of the behaviour I have witnessed has me wondering. A one word "No" does not get one made into a mOd so why is it done AFTER? This IS done alot. Sometimes a mOd will post a statement that BEGS an answer but since the thread is LOCKED... HOW is this done? It's like HA HA I get the last word. :mp5: Please note that this behaviour is not your style, I have not witnessed you do this. I rather like the "think about it a moment" on your sig..

3a) I'm not quite sure what this refers to. Are you suggesting that Moderators are unduly rude towards people who don't read the stickies? Aside from violations of the invasion rules and the UN proposal rules, I'm not familiar with any cases where Moderators tend to be harsh with people who don't read the rules beforehand. In the case of UN proposals, the proposal submission page and the FAQ make it clear that there are rules that need to be understood before proposing anything.

See 2 above. Imagine you are a newbie and you get a mOd on your case right away, one who has been on-line, just a wee bit too long, deating a mad spammer who deserves it.. And you get a fast "Read this LINK" from a mOd it can be pretty intimidating, we, as a group, don't treat newbies all that well. I just feel that mOds should lead the way.

3b) Actually, yes, I do. Though, it's not often that I'm putting anything together.

Ok do you read all the legal stuff when you install software?

V4) Some Moderators have retired. I won't discuss the reasons for any particular Moderator quitting, but no Moderator has ever felt pressured to hold the position if he/she didn't like it.[/quote]

Not really what I meant.. How about some limit as to the length of time a mOd spends mOding.. More mOds would help.. Unions made the 8 hour day and the 40 hour week, coffee breaks etc.

5) This forum is in connection to the game NationStates.net. Thus, the content is expected to be NationStates related. As the game is political in nature, we also tolerate political discussion not related to NationStates itself. Now, even we Mods know the importance of being able to kick back and relax a bit, so we also allow non-NS, non-political stuff to be posted. Nevertheless, we don't want to go overboard with this (and I'm asserting up front that the Admins and us Mods are reserving the right to decide what constitutes "going overboard").

Now THIS is where we really begin to disagree.. The sub title of the forum is ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Spam, humour, this stuff has a place here. Saying that there is a spam forum is a copout. I could counter that there is a SERIOUS DISCUSSIONS Forum.. Post there.. and then we have solved nothing. Most of us have been here a while and have developed relationships with some other posters, I rather liked spamming in general, with fellow spammers SOMETIMES WITH MODS!!!, that I met here. You set the precident by allowing it for quite a while, Jolt was supposed to fix our problems, yet we got MORE restrictive with the move, not less. RP takes bandwidth too.


[The quoted post has been modified for clarity.]
6) Someone with a grievance against a staff member can post complaints in "Moderation" or E-mail salusa@nationstates.net. Is it being argued that this isn't sufficient?

No.

Sorry I could not resist. :) I think an INDEPENDANT review would be better.

7) Your connotations seem to connect this to point 3a, above, suggesting that "Mods read that" is similar to us telling player to read the stickies. The thread you link to is over 760 posts. The reading material for the rules is in the sticky topics; while there are a lot of sticky topics, the first post in each sticky is all that's really important. All other posts in a sticky are just the attached discussion. So, the stickies don't compare to the size of the linked thread.

It was a JOKE!!! I think I said I could say...

8) Hmmm.... It has been admitted before that not all Mods agree with all current-standing policies. Personally, I'm of the opinion that allowing some spam-lite would be a good thing as I don't want people too uptight on these forums. That said, I'm of the opinion that we already allow "spam-lite" on the forums. We have I'll draw your picture! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=392908), To the girls of NS (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393621), Which SciFi Movie has the Worst Ending? (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393686), Webcomics (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393767), So what's your computer desktop look like? (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=393571), and Paradise Club 38 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=392556) (or particular significance, note that there's been 38 of them). By the way, was this individual asking for a definition or suggesting a definition of "spam-lite"?

That's why you and I get along. The poster was looking for both a definition and was offering to help derive one

9) You'll have to be a little more specific. I don't understand what you mean.

I'll find it and TG you

10) I'm going to need the specific post number, here.

I'll look for it and tg you.

11) It's not just a question of intelligence; we have to be careful about who we trust with Moderator powers. We're busy enough as-is and we don't want to have to take time away from other tasks to clean up after a dirty Mod. There are many intelligent players out there, but we wouldn't trust them all with Mod powers. For the statement in blue: Do you have a link to an example?

Perhaps the selection process is TOO restrictive, more mOds would help. I'll have to look for the blue post example and tg you.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator[/QUOTE]

I find that too much logic gets in the way of a good argument :) This union will be democratic and will represent the majority of the members. Were it goes may or may not be logical.
Yes, because we can't have intelligent debate now, can we.

Yes, because we can't have intelligent debate now, can we.


What would be the point? :) I think you are taking all this a bit too seriously. I have a point, I am using some elaborate methods in revealing it. Humour being one.

I have no problem with you all debating your asses off all you want to, just leave me some little corner to have some fun.

I don't have time to respond to the whole thing, just these two pieces:
I find that too much logic gets in the way of a good argument :) This union will be democratic and will represent the majority of the members. Were it goes may or may not be logical.
The absence of logic will severely hurt your cause. A humorous or satirical spin on a logical argument is one thing, but we will not put up with sheer idiocy. If your arguments are not logical, then your requests will be categorically denied without any consideration at all. Make sure your union members (however many or however few they may be) understand this.

I'm the kind of person who can use too much logic. Trust me, it takes a natural gift and years of practice to get to the point where you can use too much logic. Most people have the opposite problem: they don't use enough logic and it's almost impossible to use too much logic.

Ok do you read all the legal stuff when you install software?
The legal stuff on software is pretty standard stuff, usually. I've read it through a small number of licenses on different pieces of software and it's basically the same thing no matter what you buy: you can't steal their work, you can't steal their ideas, you can't reverse-engineer their stuff, you can't make derivative works, you can't install it on more than once machine, you can't make copies and sell them, you can't make copies and give them out for free (unless it's something that was dsitributed for free to begin with), it's not intended for life-critical applications, the makers take no responsibility if it causes your hard drive to die or your computer to explode, etc.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

...

If it's something from Microsoft, though, then yes, I'll read the license very carefully. I'm usually looking for any mention of anything that can be construed as referring to one's immortal soul or sale thereof. I haven't found such a case, yet, but you can't be too careful.

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

I don't have time to respond to the whole thing, just these two pieces:

The absence of logic will severely hurt your cause. A humorous or satirical spin on a logical argument is one thing, but we will not put up with sheer idiocy. If your arguments are not logical, then your requests will be categorically denied without any consideration at all. Make sure your union members (however many or however few they may be) understand this.

I'm the kind of person who can use too much logic. Trust me, it takes a natural gift and years of practice to get to the point where you can use too much logic. Most people have the opposite problem: they don't use enough logic and it's almost impossible to use too much logic.


The legal stuff on software is pretty standard stuff, usually. I've read it through a small number of licenses on different pieces of software and it's basically the same thing no matter what you buy: you can't steal their work, you can't steal their ideas, you can't reverse-engineer their stuff, you can't make derivative works, you can't install it on more than once machine, you can't make copies and sell them, you can't make copies and give them out for free (unless it's something that was dsitributed for free to begin with), it's not intended for life-critical applications, the makers take no responsibility if it causes your hard drive to die or your computer to explode, etc.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

...

If it's something from Microsoft, though, then yes, I'll read the license very carefully. I'm usually looking for any mention of anything that can be construed as referring to one's immortal soul or sale thereof. I haven't found such a case, yet, but you can't be too careful.

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

All I said is that the members will drive the direction. You might just be surprised to learn that the majority are level-headed and have valid points. Then again it might be all silly fun, who knows?

I'm firmly in the if all else fails read the instructions camp. But all else has yet to fail.. :) The vast majority of folks do not read instructions.

The Microsoft thing. Keep looking it IS in there. :eek:

I'm firmly in the if all else fails read the instructions camp. But all else has yet to fail.. :) The vast majority of folks do not read instructions.

That's really their own fault rather than the fault of the administrators. That sort of defence doesn't work in court, so why should it work here?

The Microsoft thing. Keep looking it IS in there. :eek:

No it's not. And yes, I do read the licence agreements. It's part of my job.

That's really their own fault rather than the fault of the administrators. That sort of defence doesn't work in court, so why should it work here?



No it's not. And yes, I do read the licence agreements. It's part of my job.

I have alot of work to do here. Some folks gotta learn to UNWIND :)
Like the heading says, Just want to hang out?..