NationStates Jolt Archive

For those of you who do not know, today was the 60 th anniversary of the liberation of Aushwitz, the holocaust camp believed to have claimed over 1 million Jewish lives.

In Britain, several memorial services have gone ahead including one in London where the Queen, the Prime Minister and the cabinet were part of the audience along with holocaust survivors.

However I was informed by a friend of mine that various Islamic organisations were filling complaints about Holocaust Memorial Day. Why? Apparently because it was racist towards their community as the Muslims have no day to commeorate genocidal acts undertaken against their race. This was counter acted by a claim from Jewish communities claiming it would be racist to them not to remember the day publicly.

This politically correct purge is fast spreading. Note the fact that a controversial play depicting scenes of sex inside a Sikh temple was forced to shut after violent riots from Sikhs outside the theater. Note the fact that the British Muslim Council have just lodged a complaint with OFCOM (the regulatory body for the media) against the spy series 24 because it depicts a Turkish national attempting to blow up a train.

I don't know if the BMC have been watching any news recently (or indeed ever) but a great deal of terrorist activity in recent years has been committed by those of the Middle Eastern orgin. The September 11th bombers, the school hostage takers in Russia, the theatre siege in Russia, the various acts of terrorism in Iraq and the attack on the Istanbul British consulate, all committed by people claiming to be of the Islamic faith. I wonder if the series 24 has shown an Irish republican terrorist whether Ireland's government would have announced such vigorous action.

Political correctness is bad enough by itself. However it is even worse when minority communities use political correctness to essentially manipulate freedom of speech and freedom of expression. The BMC's support for the incitement to racial hatred law (which would in reality ban comedians from doing anything slightly risque involving religion) show that these communities will use political correctness to their own ends. The fact of the matter is that Islamic extremism is a major problem in the world and the BMC should not use political correctness to try and hide that fact from the public.

Muslims were opposed to a holocaust memorial because there was no memorial to muslim genocides? I thought muslims usually perpetrated the genocides.

Muslims were opposed to a holocaust memorial because there was no memorial to muslim genocides? I thought muslims usually perpetrated the genocides.

Yes they seem very quick to forget such genocides as:

10,000 Bulgarian Christians in 1875 (the Ottoman Empire)

1 million Armenians at the beginning of World War I (the Ottoman Empire)

Yes they seem very quick to forget such genocides as:

10,000 Bulgarian Christians in 1875 (the Ottoman Empire)

1 million Armenians at the beginning of World War I (the Ottoman Empire)
Perhaps they're refering to the genocide in Darfur. Oh, wait, muslims are doing that to themselves.

I gotta go. I'll check in on this thread and read my hate mail tomorrow.

Muslims oppose Holocaust memorial
Tough, it's happened and there's nothing they can do about it.

genocidal acts undertaken against their race
Muslims aren't a race, they're adherents of Islam. Jews are sort-of a race because conversion is uncommon, so mosts jews are children of jews.

That's ridiculous. Ignoring for a moment that it wasn't just Jews killed at Auschwitz, commemorating the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz in no way prevents Muslims from commemorating the anniversaries of atrocities commited against them.

That's ridiculous. Ignoring for a moment that it wasn't just Jews killed at Auschwitz, commemorating the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz in no way prevents Muslims from commemorating the anniversaries of atrocities commited against them.

That pretty much sums it up.

Actually, before I get officially irate with this, can anyone provide a source to back this claim up?

I think the worst thing about the holocaust against the jews was the way it was done, hundreds of thousands of people (not just jews either) were simply lined up and shot or gassed and then burnt. The Nazis were truely evil, and I think it was the soviets who actualt liberated the camp right? This truely diserves a memorial.

I think the worst thing about the holocaust against the jews was the way it was done, hundreds of thousands of people (not just jews either) were simply lined up and shot or gassed and then burnt. The Nazis were truely evil, and I think it was the soviets who actualt liberated the camp right? This truely diserves a memorial.

Some of the people were worked to death (no food), and there were death marches, where they just marched them through the snow until they died.

There were actually several camps, I don't know if they were all liberated by the soviets, but I think Auschwitz was.

the massacre of the jews was horrendous and we should remember that in future.

US invasion has resulted in the death of afghans and iraqis estimated at 100,000 civilians each and a total of about 500,000 afghans and iraqis (combined) killed to stop OBL (still on the loose) and WMDs (which didn't exist) :rolleyes:
the british gassed the kurds and arabs in the 1920s thousands massacred,
the massacre of Muslims in the former yugoslavia, the massacre of Muslims by italians in north east africa, the massacre of muslims in north west africa by the french, the massacre of muslims by hindus during the division of India and Pakistan, the massacre of Muslims by hindus' in northern sri Lanka by tamil seperatists.

while there was never a single attempt to wipe out jews as the filthy prat Hitler and his foul minions attempted to do, the muslims have copped a beating from the colonial powers for much of the 20th centure.

I'm thinkin' I'm gonna have to call for a source on this one.

I do not believe any Muslim would be against a holocaust memorial as many Muslims were killed at the hands of the Nazis as well.

I believe this to just be an attempt to foster even more ignorant hatred for Muslims and people seem to be quite ready to believe it without question. Even Drunk Commies, who I have seen ask for sources on plenty of things, is jumping right on this bandwagon because it is against Muslims.

I want a source. I want more than one source. I also want any quote anywhere from any Islamic leader concerning protest of a holocaust memorial. I also ask for an appropriate quote from Qur'an, the Hadith, or Islamic Law that says this is appropriate Muslim behavior.

Until I see that, I call liar.

I'm thinkin' I'm gonna have to call for a source on this one.

I do not believe any Muslim would be against a holocaust memorial as many Muslims were killed at the hands of the Nazis as well.

I believe this to just be an attempt to foster even more ignorant hatred for Muslims and people seem to be quite ready to believe it without question. Even Drunk Commies, who I have seen ask for sources on plenty of things, is jumping right on this bandwagon because it is against Muslims.

I want a source. I want more than one source. I also want any quote anywhere from any Islamic leader concerning protest of a holocaust memorial. I also ask for an appropriate quote from Qur'an, the Hadith, or Islamic Law that says this is appropriate Muslim behavior.

Until I see that, I call liar.


fair call.

also if there are one or two idiot muslim groups that are making the call, that wouldn't speak for all muslims either.

there are a fair few idiot christian groups, jewish groups etc making stupid calls all the time.

Christians dont have days to commemorate genocide against them and you dont hear them complaining.

I'm going to have to jump on the asking for a source bandwagon...

Christians dont have days to commemorate genocide against them and you dont hear them complaining.

I don't see Muslims complaining either ... I only see a sourceless and baseless claim.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1326392/posts

theres one (i'm just doing a google)

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050123-054132-9592r.htm

and so as not to be biased

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/80294A1D-4B69-41A0-8975-A0FCE1000672.htm

In a way i can see where they are coming from, Holocaust remomorial day focuses a lot on the Jewish population and Auschwitz, but it skips out the rememberance of the 20 million Russians and 3 million African citizens murdered, simply because Allied troops didnt liberate the areas this was occuring. In my mind it should be remembered that a lot of people who died in the war due to Hitlers SS were Muslims, and they are simply pointing out that they arnt remembered.

If they want to be remembered.. Why don't they start their own remembrance holiday for muslims, march down the streets and bloody well worldwidely do it?

Rather than boycotting the Jewish holocaust memorial.

And why do Muslims think themselves as a 'race' rather than religion?

The hatred for the Jews runs deep. :(

1. Please stop referring to religions as race. Judaism is a religion and always has been. It is in no way an ethnic definition.
2. It is a shame how for reasons of political correctness the holocaust is more and more seen as the defining thing about WW2. The fact that so many people (around 56 millions) have died on the battle fields is almost ignored today because some folks still try to use the former death camps for their current political agenda.
3. The memorial culture that is currently exploding in Europe does in no way further education of future generations.
4. Folks should more care about fighting against "fundamentalism" in ALL religions instead of still trying to emphasize the differences (which in the cases of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are almost inexistent anyways).
5. Islam has always been the most tolerant of all religions worshipping Yahweh. The current isolationism and hostility towards others are a result of developments in the 19th and 20th centuries when the muslim world was dominated by colonial powers (including the Turks, British, French, Russians, and later the US-Americans) that basically messed up the whole "muslim world" and a result of economic interests (of foreign as well as local governments) based on oil wealth in the region.

The hatred for the Jews runs deep.

As does the hatred for Muslims, as pointed out here on this thread. ;)

I'm torn between agreement and disapproval. Yes, it is true that the Holocaust did see more than just jews killed. Many other nationalities were caught in the horrific murders, especially the russians and africans. However, there is the point that Hitler DID promote, indeed, father many anti-semite programs and that the death camps were primarily for the Jews.

My thoughts on the matter is that the Muslim council should have made a proposal to extend Holocaust Day to more than just the Jews, and joined the commemoration. But hey, that's just me.

I would also argue that while Hitler's treatment of the Jews was horrible, the Japanese atrocities in China, which are not widely recognized, easily equalled the death camps and ghettos. Read the Rape of Nanking, if you have a chance. It's absolutely horrific. Some things happened there that never happened in Europe, from competitions as to how many chinese heads could be chopped off (advertised in a japanese NEWSPAPER of all things) to biological experiments, certainly influenced by the Nazis but going in their own sinister direction.

So, I would propose that the chinese massacre be noticed. Japan STILL refuses to acknowledge what it did to the chinese people (even though nowadays its communist...bloody People's Party) and it is a disgrace to the world. Here, in Europe, Germany has apologized for what it has done. Over in the East, China and Korea still have no apology for what had been done to it.

And why do Muslims think themselves as a 'race' rather than religion?


We don't.

I do not believe any Muslim would be against a holocaust memorial as many Muslims were killed at the hands of the Nazis as well.

And by "were killed by", do you mean, "participated eagerly alongside" ? (link goes to amin al-husseini's bio) (http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/AminAlHusseini.htm)

Yeah, yeah, muslims are victimized around the world, I know the song.
There's only so much decency to be displayed at such memorials. This is why, as a jew, I don't think commemorations are useful at all. It's a lot of wasted money, and time spent to remember something that won't affect people at all. Jew-haters (I'm TIRED of re-explaining this "antisemite also means arabs" bullshit -it doesn't-) will still hate jews, and the only people who care about it, already know about it because they, or their relatives, were involved in it.

Why celebrate memorial services when even today, people in sudan are being killed for being black, even though they share the same religion?

And by "were killed by", do you mean, "participated eagerly alongside" ? (link goes to amin al-husseini's bio) (http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/AminAlHusseini.htm)

Meh ... some folks participated, yep. I'd rather not commemorate them, though. However, I do notice every time one of these topics comes up, people always like to point out the atrocities committed by Arabs.

You do realize that Arab Muslims make up less than 20% of the world's Muslims, don't you?

Just because a group of Arabs who happen to be Muslim does something doesn't mean it applies to Muslims in general.

1. Please stop referring to religions as race. Judaism is a religion and always has been. It is in no way an ethnic definition.

The Jews ARE a race!
They refer to themselves as a race!
Visit some Jewish websites for christs sake.
Go to your nearest bookstore and go to the history section.
You'll see a shelf titled "Jewish History."
No other religion has their own place in history, because the Jews are a race.
Or go to a bookstore online, you'll see what I mean.
Here's a link to a chain of bookstores in Canada called Chapters(Indigo/Coles)
Look on the left side of the page and you'll see that the Jews are the only religion that have their own history section.
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/default.asp?N=35+528242&Section=books&Catalog=Books&Lang=en&zxac=1

I'm thinkin' I'm gonna have to call for a source on this one.

I do not believe any Muslim would be against a holocaust memorial as many Muslims were killed at the hands of the Nazis as well.

I believe this to just be an attempt to foster even more ignorant hatred for Muslims and people seem to be quite ready to believe it without question. Even Drunk Commies, who I have seen ask for sources on plenty of things, is jumping right on this bandwagon because it is against Muslims.

I want a source. I want more than one source. I also want any quote anywhere from any Islamic leader concerning protest of a holocaust memorial. I also ask for an appropriate quote from Qur'an, the Hadith, or Islamic Law that says this is appropriate Muslim behavior.

Until I see that, I call liar.
What do you want from me? I already admitted I'm a bigot. Pile on the hate. I just can't get enough.

In a way i can see where they are coming from, Holocaust remomorial day focuses a lot on the Jewish population and Auschwitz, but it skips out the rememberance of the 20 million Russians and 3 million African citizens murdered, simply because Allied troops didnt liberate the areas this was occuring. In my mind it should be remembered that a lot of people who died in the war due to Hitlers SS were Muslims, and they are simply pointing out that they arnt remembered.
The Nazis didn't have a program to exterminate muslims. In fact they worked alongside muslims.

We don't.
Then why do I get accused of racism on this forum?

Then why do I get accused of racism on this forum?

Have any Muslims accused you of racism?

Have any Muslims accused you of racism?
Honestly I can't remember who accused me of it. It was at least two separate occasions and both on threads relating to Islam. It may have been muslims, or it may have been non-muslims who sympathize.

wtf? christianity is more of a race than islam, they get converts left and right and of varying races.

Honestly I can't remember who accused me of it. It was at least two separate occasions and both on threads relating to Islam. It may have been muslims, or it may have been non-muslims who sympathize.

I'd doubt it was Muslims. We don't consider ourselves a race. By racial standards, I'm Native American. "Muslim" is a way of life and basically means a person who follows Islam.

If you detest me for being Muslim, I just shrug and go on with life. I figure you're a bigot and you've admitted as such and that is your choice until something changes your mind. I think being deliberately and willfully ignorant is what causes 90% of the world's problems, but hey ... more power to ya.

wtf? christianity is more of a race than islam, they get converts left and right and of varying races.
And christianity doesn't? Let's count some common races of christians. You got your Europeans, your Latin Americans, Africans, Koreans (there are quite a few christian Koreans in my area, but I don't know if it's as popular in Korea), Some Native Americans, most Phillipinos, Some Indonesians,

How can christianity be defined as one race?

wtf? christianity is more of a race than islam

How do you figure? Christians are pretty racially and culturally diverse as well.

How do you figure? Christians are pretty racially and culturally diverse as well.
ill get back to you

That's ridiculous. Ignoring for a moment that it wasn't just Jews killed at Auschwitz, commemorating the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz in no way prevents Muslims from commemorating the anniversaries of atrocities commited against them.
Pretending to remember people you don't know won't bring them back.

How do you figure? Christians are pretty racially and culturally diverse as well.
Yep. Considering you need a jewish mother to be a "real" jew and you don't need anything to be a christian or a muslim, christians and muslims are very diversed.

Pretending to remember people you don't know won't bring them back.
It's intended to remind us not to let something like this happen again.

OK,

I'm a British Muslim and I agree with the Memorial of the Holocaust and commemorating the liberation of Aushwitz, the holocaust was one of the darkest eras of humanity and it shouldn't be forgotten. The Muslims who oppose it represent a small minority of Muslims in the UK. What bothers me is how Islamophobes love to emphasise that all Muslims are always bad blah blah blah. The actions of some Muslims doesn't mean that all Muslims are intent to discriminate Jews. I'm sure there are Neo-Nazi whites who oppose the Holocaust but we don't have threads saying "whites oppose Holocaust."

stupid. We should just have one genocide day. The genocides i know and the starters

Spain: Cubans, aztecs*, incas*, Muslims, Jews, protestants, dutch
America: Native Americans
Germany: Sub humans
Jews and Romans: Catholics
Muslims: Catholics, muslims, basically any european place until reconquista
Romans: Carthaginians*
north koreans: Any non political prisoner**
USSR: Leninists under stalins rule
English: Irish, Catholic kings*
France: Hugeanoauts until around 1648
Cro Magnins: Neanderthals*
i forgot
Allies: POW Japanese soldiers
*: Successful
**: Success varies

Jews are the only religion that have their own history section.


Not true. Islam has a pretty vast section of their own.

Not true. Islam has a pretty vast section of their own.
Compared to Judaism? They've got like 6,000 years of history. Islam has, what, 1,400?

If they want to be remembered.. Why don't they start their own remembrance holiday for muslims, march down the streets and bloody well worldwidely do it?

Rather than boycotting the Jewish holocaust memorial.

And why do Muslims think themselves as a 'race' rather than religion?

The hatred for the Jews runs deep. :(

What hatred for the Jews. The Jews weren't the most genocided and their race isn't completly destroyed, they got their own country and they are the most remembered for the genocides they went through

Compared to Judaism? They've got like 6,000 years of history. Islam has, what, 1,400?

You have a point. :p But you can't exactly push Islam out of the picture. It was a very influential religion on the world.

I'm no Muslim but I think Muhammad was a great man. There's not many people you can say that started out with something small and made it grow into a billion even after his death. I have my opinions on him as do you but you can't deny the fact that he was successful.

What hatred for the Jews. The Jews weren't the most genocided and their race isn't completly destroyed, they got their own country and they are the most remembered for the genocides they went through
Interestingly, for a group that has been subjected to genocide many times in history, there are just a few left.

14 million. In today's world, it's not only surprising that any are left at all, but that they were able to get their own country, and as individuals scattered all around the world, have been able to succeed at all.

There are more people with the name Lee than there are Jews.

There are more people with the name Lee than there are Jews.

Hehe, I like that example.

The Jews ARE a race!
They refer to themselves as a race!
Visit some Jewish websites for christs sake.
Go to your nearest bookstore and go to the history section.
You'll see a shelf titled "Jewish History."
No other religion has their own place in history, because the Jews are a race.
Or go to a bookstore online, you'll see what I mean.
Here's a link to a chain of bookstores in Canada called Chapters(Indigo/Coles)
Look on the left side of the page and you'll see that the Jews are the only religion that have their own history section.
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/default.asp?N=35+528242&Section=books&Catalog=Books&Lang=en&zxac=1


NO!!!!!! The Jews aren't a race. The only "RACE" in the world in The Human Race. :)

Not true. Islam has a pretty vast section of their own.

You shouldn't count out the Catholics. They are 2004 years old and they did
Inquistions (Not so good but important)
Schisms (Not so good either)
Helped creation of America (WW2 anyone. WW1 was defencesive for Germany and started by Serbia and the council of Vienna helped fuel WW2 not going into further)
War of the Religions (Okay maybe they didn't do good there either)
Donating
Got France out of Bankruptcy(Not willingly)
Taught during Dark ages (Ha)
Paintings

On a person by person basis, Jews could easily be considered extremely successful survivors - more intelligent and successful on the average.

They are successful because they are survivors. The weak and stupid and spineless amongst them have been eliminated by genocide.

So many doctors, lawyers, scientists, philosophers, and thinkers in such a small population - it's far out of proportion. Because there's been a definite attempt by many different cultures to wipe them out.

Makes you wonder. What's better for the development of a culture - handing them some land with billions of dollars of oil underneath it, so they can become soft and stupid, or chase them down and kill most of them so that the survivors become extremely good at surviving in any country under any conditions?

NO!!!!!! The Jews aren't a race. The only "RACE" in the world in The Human Race. :)

no human race is divided into 3 parts

Caucassins: Also called whites primarily European.
I forgot the one for blacks but starts with a N
Mongoliods: Oriental primarily Asian.

Then there are subraces. There used to be 10 seperate spieces but all but us died.

Interestingly, for a group that has been subjected to genocide many times in history, there are just a few left.

14 million. In today's world, it's not only surprising that any are left at all, but that they were able to get their own country, and as individuals scattered all around the world, have been able to succeed at all.

There are more people with the name Lee than there are Jews.

Wrong there are about 200 million. There are probably more lees then germans or italians or any other european country. China has half the worlds population and most europeans have a few hund million. Lee is a very common Chinese name. Besides its a religion so there could be as much as the world population causing percentages to become inaccurate.

1. Please stop referring to religions as race. Judaism is a religion and always has been. It is in no way an ethnic definition.


You clearly no nothing about Judaisim. While it is a religion it is also a race. It is a cultural, religious and racial devision. The Nazi's were not interested in purging the Jews because they believed that they were worshiping God and not Hitler. They killed them because they thought they were subhuman, as a speices.

China has half the worlds population

No, China has one sixth of the world's population (World population 6 billion. China population 1 billion both aprox)

i hate when you ask jews "What is your nationality?" and they say "Jewish". JEWISH IS NOT A NATIONALITY, IT IS A RELIGION! No wonder they have been so abused in history.

No, China has one sixth of the world's population (World population 6 billion. China population 1 billion both aprox)

1/3 then because i was using the base of 4 billion they have 2 billion

1/3 then because i was using the base of 4 billion they have 2 billion
They have 2 billion already? Holy shit, somebody needs to pass out birth control pills over there.

They have 2 billion already? Holy shit, somebody needs to pass out birth control pills over there.

They are doing their best which is one kid per person or something like that. Never going to work. If they import 1% of their rice needs then the global economy would go up i think 10 or so %

1/3 then because i was using the base of 4 billion they have 2 billion
Why were you using a base of 4 billion? when the word population is

6,300,000,000 +?

And chinese pop is roughly 1.3bil + ?

read somewhere it was 4 bil and they had 2 bill

Why were you using a base of 4 billion? when the word population is

6,300,000,000 +?

And chinese pop is roughly 1.3bil + ?

No. there are just over two Billion Chinese. you are confusing India with China, they have 1 billion. Its not a matter of debate or your personal wants, its a well docomented study. China = 1/3 world population, India = a further 1/6 th.

And in answer to a few earlier comments. we Roma have been subject to a thousand times more abuse than either the jews or the Arabs, and many more attempts at genocide. We still dont have small minorities of deluded fools fly planes into offices or blow up whats left of ourselves just to kill a few innocents, bringing the rest of us into disrepute and to ensure we go against our particular religion. You gotta be some dumbass to think allah is gonna like a bomber when your entire life has involved learning from the Koran how much he hates that stuff haven't you?

Wrong there are about 200 million. There are probably more lees then germans or italians or any other european country. China has half the worlds population and most europeans have a few hund million. Lee is a very common Chinese name. Besides its a religion so there could be as much as the world population causing percentages to become inaccurate.

No, officially there are only 14 million Jews - counting all the ones in Israel, the US, and Europe combined, with scatterings elsewhere.

read somewhere it was 4 bil and they had 2 bill
Google it ... I’m not lying us world census beau page

Or
http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop
if you would like an estimator
(it has not been in the 4 billion range at all past 1986 and that was 4.9… billion)

No. there are just over two Billion Chinese. you are confusing India with China, they have 1 billion. Its not a matter of debate or your personal wants, its a well docomented study. China = 1/3 world population, India = a further 1/6 th.

And in answer to a few earlier comments. we Roma have been subject to a thousand times more abuse than either the jews or the Arabs, and many more attempts at genocide. We still dont have small minorities of deluded fools fly planes into offices or blow up whats left of ourselves just to kill a few innocents, bringing the rest of us into disrepute and to ensure we go against our particular religion. You gotta be some dumbass to think allah is gonna like a bomber when your entire life has involved learning from the Koran how much he hates that stuff haven't you?
I am not confusing anything that is the latest statistic that I could find on china's pop ... where are you geting your info from (if so please share cause world pop was easy to find but cant seem to get chineese)

No. there are just over two Billion Chinese. you are confusing India with China, they have 1 billion. Its not a matter of debate or your personal wants, its a well docomented study.
Apparently not well enough.

No. there are just over two Billion Chinese. you are confusing India with China, they have 1 billion. Its not a matter of debate or your personal wants, its a well docomented study. China = 1/3 world population, India = a further 1/6 th.

And in answer to a few earlier comments. we Roma have been subject to a thousand times more abuse than either the jews or the Arabs, and many more attempts at genocide. We still dont have small minorities of deluded fools fly planes into offices or blow up whats left of ourselves just to kill a few innocents, bringing the rest of us into disrepute and to ensure we go against our particular religion. You gotta be some dumbass to think allah is gonna like a bomber when your entire life has involved learning from the Koran how much he hates that stuff haven't you?

What is Roma?

Gypsies.

I remember the Judaism class showing roughy 63 million people with the name Lee.

stupid americans, you are the biggest terrorists in the world and you aren't motivated by faith but by money

stupid americans, you are the biggest terrorists in the world and you aren't motivated by faith but by money
Where did that come from? the original topic was out of England I believe ... not America (or more specifically the USA because despite belief we are not all of America)

I remember the Judaism class showing roughy 63 million people with the name Lee.

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031126.html

Most common name is Zhang, with about 100 million people with that last name.

Lee is evidently third most common.

As does the hatred for Muslims, as pointed out here on this thread. ;)

I'm torn between agreement and disapproval. Yes, it is true that the Holocaust did see more than just jews killed. Many other nationalities were caught in the horrific murders, especially the russians and africans. However, there is the point that Hitler DID promote, indeed, father many anti-semite programs and that the death camps were primarily for the Jews.

My thoughts on the matter is that the Muslim council should have made a proposal to extend Holocaust Day to more than just the Jews, and joined the commemoration. But hey, that's just me.

I would also argue that while Hitler's treatment of the Jews was horrible, the Japanese atrocities in China, which are not widely recognized, easily equalled the death camps and ghettos. Read the Rape of Nanking, if you have a chance. It's absolutely horrific. Some things happened there that never happened in Europe, from competitions as to how many chinese heads could be chopped off (advertised in a japanese NEWSPAPER of all things) to biological experiments, certainly influenced by the Nazis but going in their own sinister direction.

So, I would propose that the chinese massacre be noticed. Japan STILL refuses to acknowledge what it did to the chinese people (even though nowadays its communist...bloody People's Party) and it is a disgrace to the world. Here, in Europe, Germany has apologized for what it has done. Over in the East, China and Korea still have no apology for what had been done to it.

You're right- I read accounts of Japanese soldiers doing extreme cold weather "experiments" on their unfortunate Chinese captives- leaving them outside naked in frigid temps to see what happened to human tissue-hosing them down with water and hitting there extremeties with rods simply to hear what frozen tissue sounded like.They also did dissection on live subjects.
I think that humans in general have perpetrated the most horrendous atrocities on other humans since the beggining of time-regardless of the reason-hatred, fear, boredom. Christians were fed to lions in the Collessium, Bosnians and Serbains waste each other, Protestants and Catholics, Muslims and Jews. There are estimates that Stalin killed far more of his own people than the Nazis killed Jews. The Japanese certainly killed more than 6 million Chinese.
Maybe there should be one single "Human Rememberance Day" were people can pay their respects to and reflect on the absolutely horrible thing one group has perpetrated on another. Forget Race ,Religion, color, ethnicity or gender. So many people put so much effort into destroying other people and what they have. It has been that way since the start of time and it will last till the very end.

stupid americans, you are the biggest terrorists in the world and you aren't motivated by faith but by money


You have exposed yourself as a totally bitter and ignorant jackass. Most of America's motivation for what we do in the world is based on doing what we think is right. We dont need whatever you have to offer-we have everything we need right here. So keep your mouth like your small mind-shut.

China's population is at 1.3 billion.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/01/03/china050103.html

Terra's population is over 6 billion(this story is from 1999).

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/1999/07/18/worldpop990718.html

And I think that someone above asked about the Roma? Well lucky you because when I was looking for that census data I accidently found a history of the Roma. There are more links at the bottem of the page wich take you to the rest of the story.

http://www.tv.cbc.ca/newsinreview/dec97/gypsies/roma.html

Concerning me saying Hatred for the Jews runs deep.

We don't.

Well, maybe not you or more civilised intelligent muslims in general.

But then, anti-semitism is a huge thing. Especially among muslim nations.

Look at it this way, why is it terrorist always hate America because America is the only nation that supports Isreal? (Either than that, their sinful lives). But it's always mentioned about Isreal this, Isreal that.

The Jews ARE a race!
They refer to themselves as a race!
Visit some Jewish websites for christs sake.
Go to your nearest bookstore and go to the history section.
You'll see a shelf titled "Jewish History."
No other religion has their own place in history, because the Jews are a race.
Or go to a bookstore online, you'll see what I mean.
Here's a link to a chain of bookstores in Canada called Chapters(Indigo/Coles)
Look on the left side of the page and you'll see that the Jews are the only religion that have their own history section.
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/default.asp?N=35+528242&Section=books&Catalog=Books&Lang=en&zxac=1
The defining characteristic of a Jew is the worship of Yah. Just someone's claim to be something does not make it true. Jews claiming to make up a race does not constitute race but racism on their side.

You have exposed yourself as a totally bitter and ignorant jackass. Most of America's motivation for what we do in the world is based on doing what we think is right. We dont need whatever you have to offer-we have everything we need right here. So keep your mouth like your small mind-shut.


Am personally not in agreement with the idea that all Americans are terrorists BUT your statement
Most of America's motivation for what we do in the world is based on doing what we think is right
highlights the somewhat arrogant philosophy behind many USA policies; the view that what a somewhat conservative, christian democracy perceives to be 'good', and 'right' MUST apply to the rest of the world. Other cultures do not necessarily benefit from America's idea of freedom and it is utterly ethnocentric (anthropology jargon) to assume that they do.
If America had stuck to it's isolationist policies, it can be argued that there would be considerably less exploitation and conflict in the world - if only you had everything you (plural) needed in the vast continent of America.

The defining characteristic of a Jew is the worship of Yah. Just someone's claim to be something does not make it true. Jews claiming to make up a race does not constitute race but racism on their side.


Race is an utterly redundant notion anyway - it is completely inapplicable for the definition of a group. Jews do make up a nation though, diasporic as it may be, as they share a distinct historiography, only slightly affected by country of residence.

US invasion has resulted in the death of afghans and iraqis estimated at 100,000 civilians each and a total of about 500,000 afghans and iraqis (combined) killed to stop OBL (still on the loose) and WMDs (which didn't exist) :rolleyes:
Of course, the Lancet report, where your 100,000 figure comes from, is complete and utter bullshit. I am also pretty certain that the afghanistan figure is fluffed as well. But we can't let facts get in the way.

But then, anti-semitism is a huge thing. Especially among muslim nations.

Look at it this way, why is it terrorist always hate America because America is the only nation that supports Isreal? (Either than that, their sinful lives). But it's always mentioned about Isreal this, Isreal that.

Although those involved probably are very Anti-Semitic, being Anti-Israel does not automatically make one Anti-Semitic.

Allies: POW Japanese soldiers

Japanese: Allied POWs.


That one went both ways.

Race is an utterly redundant notion anyway - it is completely inapplicable for the definition of a group.Agreed Jews do make up a nation though, diasporic as it may be, as they share a distinct historiography, only slightly affected by country of residence.No. Jews do not make up a nation or any other group of common ethnicity. Do Christians or Muslims make up a nation?

I was always under the impression that "Jewish" could refer to either a religion or an ethnicity (referring to the Biblical twelve tribes and descendants of Abraham), but the two weren't necessarily identical in that not all people of "Jewish extraction" follow Judaism as a religion (some have lapsed or converted) and not all people who follow Judaism are of "Jewish extraction" (there are quite a few in Ethiopia, I believe.) Do we have any professional ethnographers on the board to help clear this up?

Goblinesque, you're right, Romany people have experienced a lot of discrimination and it still bothers me a lot that epithets like 'thieving Gypsy' go largely unchallenged even in our politically correct times. I would be very interested in learning more about the actual history if you have any good links or books to provide? :)

Interestingly, I'm against it too, and I'm not even Muslim. In fact, I am incredibly white.

Why? Because a general rememberance day for victims of genocide is a fine and worthy idea, and has real educational value. Just one event though, totally cheapened by all the tacky coverage it gets, there's no point in that. Sticking a capital letter on holocaust was a big mistake. I was in 6th Form during the first one, there was some special assembly, I just took the day off and did some physics questions. I really see little value in the rememberance activities as they currently are.

Although those involved probably are very Anti-Semitic, being Anti-Israel does not automatically make one Anti-Semitic.

So if Isreal is populated by 100% arab muslims. Would these problems still arise?

I was always under the impression that "Jewish" could refer to either a religion or an ethnicity (referring to the Biblical twelve tribes and descendants of Abraham), but the two weren't necessarily identical in that not all people of "Jewish extraction" follow Judaism as a religion (some have lapsed or converted) and not all people who follow Judaism are of "Jewish extraction" (there are quite a few in Ethiopia, I believe.) Do we have any professional ethnographers on the board to help clear this up?


ok to set it straight (as i remember):

Judiasm (being Jewish): is a religion
Semite: is an ethnicity

Up until about 75 years ago, they were for the most part mutally exclusive (Semites were Jews and vice versa), which leads people to mistake being 'jewish' as referring to a race, ethnicity, etc. however, with people becoming more worldly and recent decline in organized religion, non-Semites have converted to Judiasm (e.g Madonna), and many people of Jewish/Semitic background are no longer practising the faith. therefore, you can't really claim that "being Jewish" is an ethnicity like you could say, 200 years ago (though technically incorrect). However, most practicers of Judiasm are of Semitic decent.

O come on. After 1935 years in the diaspora there is no Semitic ethnicity left in the Jews. The only thing that defines a Jew is the worship Yahweh in a special manner.

ok to set it straight (as i remember):

Judiasm (being Jewish): is a religion
Semite: is an ethnicity

Up until about 75 years ago, they were for the most part mutally exclusive (Semites were Jews and vice versa), which leads people to mistake being 'jewish' as referring to a race, ethnicity, etc. however, with people becoming more worldly and recent decline in organized religion, non-Semites have converted to Judiasm (e.g Madonna), and many people of Jewish/Semitic background are no longer practising the faith. therefore, you can't really claim that "being Jewish" is an ethnicity like you could say, 200 years ago (though technically incorrect). However, most practicers of Judiasm are of Semitic decent.madonna converted to kaballah which is a weird sect, really weird apparently and dont seem to care about the main jewish religion

I do not believe any Muslim would be against a holocaust memorial as many Muslims were killed at the hands of the Nazis as well.
Oh? Like the:
13. Waffen-Gebirgs Division SS "Handschar"
21. Waffen-Gebirgs Division SS "Skanderbeg"
23. Waffen-Gebirgs Division SS "Kama"
SS Division "Neu-Turkistan"?

stupid americans, you are the biggest terrorists in the world and you aren't motivated by faith but by money
Stupid foreigners, you are the biggest idiots in the world and you aren't motivated by reality, just the desire to spam up threads.

Many people seem to give attitudes to entire groups of people. You forget how the Muslims protected the Jews from the Germans in WWII. We for get that 3 million 'thieving' (as some insist) Gypsies were killed. I think we should stop shouting about which groups were killed and remember that it was Nazi's that killed. They bread hatred in groups of people then killed millions of individuals from these groups.

Perhaps we should remember how Winston Churchill dropped gas on and poisoned the Kurds too. It isn't always them it is sometimes us.

While I am on. Terrorists that are Muslims are no more Muslim fundamentalists than Real IRA scum are Christian fundamentalists. To say to is to bread hatred in Muslims. Remember the Nazis.

Many people seem to give attitudes to entire groups of people. You forget how the Muslims protected the Jews from the Germans in WWII. We for get that 3 million 'thieving' (as some insist) Gypsies were killed. I think we should stop shouting about which groups were killed and remember that it was Nazi's that killed. They bread hatred in groups of people then killed millions of individuals from these groups.

Perhaps we should remember how Winston Churchill dropped gas on and poisoned the Kurds too. It isn't always them it is sometimes us.

While I am on. Terrorists that are Muslims are no more Muslim fundamentalists than Real IRA scum are Christian fundamentalists. To say to is to bread hatred in Muslims. Remember the Nazis.

Actually Churchill didn't drop gas - he proposed it briefly and then dropped the idea because it was neither his style nor the style of Great Britain.

The people of Dresden are just one group that know it was his style. He got results, he left many dead.