NationStates Jolt Archive

French President Jacques Chirac proposed the idea for a voluntary worldwide tax to raise money for AIDS. That's right, a worldwide tax on international transactions, fuel, and airline tickets. However, even this money will not stop the AIDS problem in Africa. All this will do is lead to giving the UN authority to levy worldwide taxes on all member nations. Of course, a heavy tax will be instituted against all wealthy nations in order to "cure" poverty in places like Africa. The U.S. will get the worst of it, as the U.N. hates America.

This is why it's good Bush was elected instead of Kerry---Kerry would support this kind of crap.

I just wanted to hear what everyone thought about this worldwide tax.

(source) (http://www.weforum.org/site/homepublic.nsf/Content/Chirac+Warns+Poor+Could+Revolt+If+Left+No+Hope+For+Future+-+And+Proposes+International+Tax+To+Fight+Poverty)

Sad bit o' pointless paranoid rage is this.

The UN doesn't FORCE this kind of thing down people's throats.

If this were to happen it would be done with the permission of the country to be taxed since the UN does not have any legislative control over any country.

The UN is essentially powerless. It depends on member nations to help it enact and carry out its resolutions. Which every one of them decided was a dang good idea BTW and still do.

You make it sound like it was already passed and the wolves were already at the door.

It is doubtful that it will be made for real. Discussed certainly but not enacted. Countries usually like having total control over their finances.

If it did become reality I wouldn't mind though. Sounds like a good idea to let the UN handle such things since the US bungled it by wasting so much money on brand name drugs when we could have gotten many more generics.

IN ADDITION

The election is over. Move on.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, boy.

Teranius, just how did you draw your conculsion from that article?

Chirac asked that the world meets its pledge, from 20 years ago (when Reagan was president, who I don't believe was a Democrat), to give 0.7% of it's GDP to help fight AIDS. To help meet this pledge he suggested a few ways (which might be unfairly biased against the US - but I don't know).

You then go on to say that this effort will not stop the AIDS problem in Africa (without any evidence for your point I might add). But don't you think it might help though?

voluntary ... tax

Um?

I do not get the point of rich nations paying more or rich people paying higher taxes.
Why should a person that does well pay higher taxes? They are paying the same tax % of their wages as "poor" people. Same with nations.
Something bad happens in thees "poor" nations it is the West to the rescue but if we want something from them it is almost impossible to get it.
Like hell I am paying some aids tax for Africa, the money is better spent on our own nations, it's not like we have money trees. If we give more and more the longer it takes to make things better in your own nation and don't say that the "rich" countrys do not have problems, we have poor and sick people to.

Don't get me wrong, I like it when we can help other nations but we must have a line that can not be crossed.

I find it amazing how we are supposed to pay for other peoples misfortune and stupidity. If they were intelligent and socially responsible they wouldn't have a tremendous aids problem.

I find it amazing how we are supposed to pay for other peoples misfortune and stupidity. If they were intelligent and socially responsible they wouldn't have a tremendous aids problem.

Many people in aids affected nations have misconceptions due to lack of education. I don't know about it because I am intelligent, I know about it because I was educated about it.

As for why one would pay for another's misfortune, that is called "kindness".

French President Jacques Chirac proposed the idea for a voluntary worldwide tax to raise money for AIDS. That's right, a worldwide tax on international transactions, fuel, and airline tickets. However, even this money will not stop the AIDS problem in Africa. All this will do is lead to giving the UN authority to levy worldwide taxes on all member nations. Of course, a heavy tax will be instituted against all wealthy nations in order to "cure" poverty in places like Africa. The U.S. will get the worst of it, as the U.N. hates America.

This is why it's good Bush was elected instead of Kerry---Kerry would support this kind of crap.

I just wanted to hear what everyone thought about this worldwide tax.

(source) (http://www.weforum.org/site/homepublic.nsf/Content/Chirac+Warns+Poor+Could+Revolt+If+Left+No+Hope+For+Future+-+And+Proposes+International+Tax+To+Fight+Poverty)
You say that it won't stop the AIDS problem in Africa without any sort of evidence. You claim this will give the UN too much power even though it is a voluntary tax and the UN is mentioned nowhere in your link (which is from a site I've never even heard of) You claim the US will get the worst of it, even though it seems as if the tax effects everyone who agrees to it equally. You claim that the UN hates the US without any proof or evidence. You wrongly suggest that Bush being elected is a good thing, when most educated people would say it's not. You claim Kerry would support this without showing any evidence.

Need I go on?

So, Chiraq proposed a worldwide tax for AIDS? Wonder who the money will go to? May to a clinic in Kenya? Or an orphanage in South Africa? Or maybe, just maybe, for Gen. Mutsu Anu Ibabango's effort to fight a guerilla war in Mozambique? Massive corruption in underdeveloped nations is unavoidable.
Another problem is the program itself. This is a global tax for AIDS. Noble enough, but what else may justify a global tax? I feel that this is Chiraq who, as always, is trying to preserve French gloire any way he can. I'm very glad Nicholas Sarkozy is rising in popularity.

[QUOTE=North IslandLike hell I am paying some aids tax for Africa, the money is better spent on our own nations, it's not like we have money trees. If we give more and more the longer it takes to make things better in your own nation and don't say that the "rich" countrys do not have problems, we have poor and sick people to.[/QUOTE]

Amen! You are so right. Our first priority in any country should be to help our own people first.

By the way, how is AIDS spread? Sex and IV drug use. Whatever happened to the idea that people take responsibility for their own actions? Engage in high-risk sex or illegal drugs? If so take responsibility for the consequences.
:headbang:

Dude, what part of "voluntary tax" don't you understand? My guess is the "voluntary" part.

BTW, Cetlund. This Africa we're talking about. They have really bad education there, so they don't know that sex is what causes AIDS.

So, Chiraq proposed a worldwide tax for AIDS? Wonder who the money will go to? May to a clinic in Kenya? Or an orphanage in South Africa? Or maybe, just maybe, for Gen. Mutsu Anu Ibabango's effort to fight a guerilla war in Mozambique? Massive corruption in underdeveloped nations is unavoidable.
Another problem is the program itself. This is a global tax for AIDS. Noble enough, but what else may justify a global tax? I feel that this is Chiraq who, as always, is trying to preserve French gloire any way he can. I'm very glad Nicholas Sarkozy is rising in popularity.

Has it occured to anyone that promoting democracy in Africa might be a way to make these nations prosperous enough to fight AIDS on their own? These despots that run most of Africa are the reason that these people are so poor and ignorant.

BTW, Cetlund. This Africa we're talking about. They have really bad education there, so they don't know that sex is what causes AIDS.

And also, many of them do not know that they have AIDS, and when they want children, they unwittingly pass it on. Safe sex is rarely an option there.

Has it occured to anyone that promoting democracy in Africa might be a way to make these nations prosperous enough to fight AIDS on their own? These despots that run most of Africa are the reason that these people are so poor and ignorant.
That's a better solution, I feel. But it feels better for most humans to give directly to something, even if combating it indirectly is more efficient. I guess some humans are too high on their horses to see reason.

Public and Private Donations.. Taxing the people is unethical.

Taxes should be for the people of their own nation.

That's a better solution, I feel. But it feels better for most humans to give directly to something, even if combating it indirectly is more efficient. I guess some humans are too high on their horses to see reason.
You're right. People do feel better when they think they are helping. With these tyrants in charge, I doubt much of that help ends up where it's needed. It's the whole "Give a man a fish..." thing.

As for why one would pay for another's misfortune, that is called "kindness".Be kind on your own dime, and don't force others to pay for things they may or may not support. That is called "tyranny," and it is why we had a revolution in this country.

Be kind on your own dime, and don't force others to pay for things they may or may not support. That is called "tyranny," and it is why we had a revolution in this country.

I was not aware that I was forcing you to pay for anything. I sincerely apologize for tyrannically ruling you.

Dude, what part of "voluntary tax" don't you understand? My guess is the "voluntary" part.

BTW, Cetlund. This Africa we're talking about. They have really bad education there, so they don't know that sex is what causes AIDS.

We already have a voluntary tax. It is called charity. The reason it is voluntary is I can choose which charities I want to receive my money. So, under the UN plan, do individuals or governments get to choose if they want to contribute or not?

I cannot believe they are so uneducated that they don't know what causes AIDS. Especially after all the money, the world has poured into Africa for education. Even if the people don't know what causes AIDS, why isn't their government educating them? :confused:

Has it occured to anyone that promoting democracy in Africa might be a way to make these nations prosperous enough to fight AIDS on their own? These despots that run most of Africa are the reason that these people are so poor and ignorant.

You got that right. One civil war after another civil war, graft, corruption. It isn't something the rest of the world can solve. They must solve it themselves with our help, but they must realize there is a limit to our help.

This is what i think...i agree with the guys who say we need to get democracy working in Africa so they can pay for their own aids problems. But i hate the guys who say "They should take responsibility for their own actions" having a less education (like the people in Africa) means that you do not know how AIDS spreads, and you can't blame the people, blame the governments instead, and blame the rest of the world for not putting more money into education programs. Which goes back to my first agreement, the sooner the world helps get Africa prosperous and with a stable democracy (which i am sorry this feat MIGHT take money from the world to help produce) than the people of Africa can vote for what they want.

We CANNOT blame the african people for developing AIDS, blame their governments for shutting the people up in a hole with no education. We are all educated here and we should know how AIDS spreads, so we try not to contract it, but there they do not know, and we as caring people should help. I hope you guys also realize that 6,000 people a day are dying there and you dont want to have our government (richest nation in the world) give up 0.7% of its GDP to a tax? Where do you think that 0.7% would go anyways? It's not that much, you probably give more money in that basket at church than you would paying your share of the 0.7% tax.

We already have a voluntary tax. It is called charity. The reason it is voluntary is I can choose which charities I want to receive my money. So, under the UN plan, do individuals or governments get to choose if they want to contribute or not?

I cannot believe they are so uneducated that they don't know what causes AIDS. Especially after all the money, the world has poured into Africa for education. Even if the people don't know what causes AIDS, why isn't their government educating them? :confused:
Would you mind spending an extra buck every time you fly if it would help millions of people with AIDS? Or would you rather use it to buy a Nutri-Grain bar and let millions suffer and die?

Then tax oil to help the environment.

We already have a voluntary tax. It is called charity. The reason it is voluntary is I can choose which charities I want to receive my money.A voice of reason. Rock on. So, under the UN plan, do individuals or governments get to choose if they want to contribute or not?No. They don't. It is only voluntary at the government level.

I cannot believe they are so uneducated that they don't know what causes AIDS. Especially after all the money, the world has poured into Africa for education. Even if the people don't know what causes AIDS, why isn't their government educating them? :confused:Actually, in some cases, their government is deliberately miseducating them, as in South Africa, where the president until recently denied the existence of the virus, and then disagreed with pretty much all modern science on the method of its spread. And then the icing on the cake is that the most recent winner of the Nobel Peace Prize thinks that western countries developed AIDS specifically to attack African countries, again contrary to every fact we know about the development, and being a wacko conspiracy theory besides. It almost makes you wish for the days of colonialism, when we had a perfectly good excuse to (and interest in) educate the Africans.

Would you mind spending an extra buck every time you fly if it would help millions of people with AIDS? Or would you rather use it to buy a Nutri-Grain bar and let millions suffer and die?

Actually I would be happier with the dollar.

I find it amazing how we are supposed to pay for other peoples misfortune and stupidity. If they were intelligent and socially responsible they wouldn't have a tremendous aids problem.

Pardon.

Would you mind spending an extra buck every time you fly if it would help millions of people with AIDS? Or would you rather use it to buy a Nutri-Grain bar and let millions suffer and die?
Hooray for the false dilemma. If you think for one minute that all that money will do an ounce of good in the money pit known as Africa, you are sorely mistaken. It will disappear, like before, into the pockets of corrupt lunatics like Mugabe, Kabila, and Sese-Seko.

Then tax oil to help the environment.

they do dumbass...why do you think we are paying $2 a gallon for gas....there is a price floor on gasoline to keep two things steady.

1. It keeps people from driving indiscriminately. Therefore, theoretically "helping" the enviroment.

2. Keeps us from having a shirtage like the 70s....

stop calling it the UN plan! The UN was never mentioned in the article! It was a suggestion as a way to get countries to pay what they promised they would.

Would you mind spending an extra buck every time you fly if it would help millions of people with AIDS? Or would you rather use it to buy a Nutri-Grain bar and let millions suffer and die?

Wow....you just don't get it.....THIS MONEY WILL NOT GO TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT!!!! Money that was supposed to be going to iraqi people in the oil for food program went to Un delagates in charge of the program, and to saddam....doesn't that show you that money doesn't reach the correct hands.....DONATE DIRECTLY TO CHARITIES!!!! if you want to be all high and mighty, ENCOURAGE people to donate......dont force them to.....honestly, i don't give a damn about a continet that is too embroiled in civil wars to give a fuck about helthcare...it will go to the aforementioned generals and corrupt dictators....

I'm sure we would help them, but US would be raked over the coals again for helping someone.....

This is like welfare.....give stupid, lazy people money soo they can spend more time wallowing in their own filth and watching "Days of our lives." This "tax" makes as much sense as that....I hate welfare for lazy poeple.....i think it's okay for those unable to work...but those without ambition should rot.....these countries don't want change.....let them rot and wallow in their ignorance....ignorance isn't not knowing. It;s not knowing and having no desire to change.

Would you mind spending an extra buck every time you fly if it would help millions of people with AIDS? Or would you rather use it to buy a Nutri-Grain bar and let millions suffer and die?

Yes I would mind spending the exter buck for people with AIDS. I would prefer to give the "extra" buck to veterans groups, the Boy Scouts, St. Judes, or the Salvation Army. Those are the organizations I choose to give my extra bucks to.

I doubt the tax would be effective at stopping AIDS

French President Jacques Chirac proposed the idea for a voluntary worldwide tax to raise money for AIDS.

Perhaps if the venal idiots at the UN hadn't spent all their bibe money from the Oil For Food program in Iraq on whores and limos they wouldn't NEED to tax anyone!

Perhaps if the venal idiots at the UN hadn't spent all their bibe money from the Oil For Food program in Iraq on whores and limos they wouldn't NEED to tax anyone!

Cold, but true. :(

French President Jacques Chirac proposed the idea for a voluntary worldwide tax to raise money for AIDS. That's right, a worldwide tax on international transactions, fuel, and airline tickets. However, even this money will not stop the AIDS problem in Africa. All this will do is lead to giving the UN authority to levy worldwide taxes on all member nations. Of course, a heavy tax will be instituted against all wealthy nations in order to "cure" poverty in places like Africa. The U.S. will get the worst of it, as the U.N. hates America.
I don't see how it's a tax if it's voluntary.

Regarding the UN, why the hell are US Republicans always so paranoid? Why do they always think that everyone is out to get America?

Regarding the UN, why the hell are US Republicans always so paranoid? Why do they always think that everyone is out to get America?


Because alot of people in the world don't like the US, and because of 9/11. But i do agree that Republicans are too paranoid and like to punch anybody in the nose who looks at them funny.


In regard to the Aids "Tax", if there was some way to ensure that the money was used for aids victims, rather then stolen by warlords, it might have some merit. Unfortunetly, I don't see that happening. I believe a better use for the money would be finding a cure for aids. After all, there's only so much we can do to stop aids in an underdeveloped, uneducated, area such as Africa without a cure.

Has it occured to anyone that promoting democracy in Africa might be a way to make these nations prosperous enough to fight AIDS on their own? These despots that run most of Africa are the reason that these people are so poor and ignorant.

If you could get the concept of Democracy to stick it might have an effect by the time that there were not enough people left to vote. As a long term goal it may be worth persuing, but in the short term it will have no effect. These despots, that run african countries are simply, in most cases ruling according to local traditions far older than anything the developped world has. The difficulty is that these traditions can not deal with modern life, with its rapid movement of people from place to place.
Sex is not a taboo activity in many tribal cultures, it is regarded as good healthy behaviour. To associate it with a killing disease goes against a millenial thought pattern, and is difficult for these people to accept. (It would be a little bit like being told that reading can kill you, just more shocking.)

The battle against AIDS is not something that only the developed world has managed to do. Some countries in the developing world actually have the most effective campaigns of all. (In particular Brazil). Here there is still a fairly high level of illiteracy and absence of formal education. So this in itself is not a factor in the size of the AIDS problem in Africa. To deal with AIDS we need research and the development of either a cure or a vaccine, as well as funding for the treatment of sufferers of the disease.

Now: to what Chirac proposed.

He reminded the rich nations of their pledge to help the poorer nations. The only mention of AIDS was in relation to a suggested levy of US$1 on each air ticket sold. (If you can afford to fly, you can afford to pay an extra US$1 to do so) The rest, the tax on international transactions etc, was not specifically AIDS related, it was poverty reduction related.

I guess some humans are too high on their horses to see reason.
Coming from you thats funny.

If the US was to give .7% of its GDP it would translate to 16.1 billion dollars. The US gave 15 billion already. How about the rest of the world coughs up a few more billion then we will talk. I do believe that 15 billion is more than all other countries combined.

Oh and one more thing, per capita and percentage GDP is a way for those that are insignificant to feel more important than they are. Who cares if you give 1% of 6 billion or .17% of 3 trillion which one is more? For when it comes down to taking care of things it is the amount not the % of per capita or percentage of GDP

Quite a joke really, but then what can you expect from socialists. I know I have come to expect very little in the way of action and more in the way of whining.

No, coming from New Anthrus it is funny.

No, coming from New Anthrus it is funny.
Your right. I editet it.

French President Jacques Chirac proposed the idea for a voluntary worldwide tax to raise money for AIDS. That's right, a worldwide tax on international transactions, fuel, and airline tickets. However, even this money will not stop the AIDS problem in Africa.
What AIDS problem in Africa?
http://aliveandwell.org/html/africa/africainperspective.html

What AIDS problem in Africa?
http://aliveandwell.org/html/africa/africainperspective.html
Strangely enough I think they also count the ones who have the HIV virus. :rolleyes:

I don't see how it's a tax if it's voluntary.

It is voluntary for the government, not for the people being taxed.


Regarding the UN, why the hell are US Republicans always so paranoid? Why do they always think that everyone is out to get America?

We are not parinoid. The UN is out to get us. :(

French President Jacques Chirac proposed the idea for a voluntary worldwide tax to raise money for AIDS. That's right, a worldwide tax on international transactions, fuel, and airline tickets. However, even this money will not stop the AIDS problem in Africa. All this will do is lead to giving the UN authority to levy worldwide taxes on all member nations. Of course, a heavy tax will be instituted against all wealthy nations in order to "cure" poverty in places like Africa. The U.S. will get the worst of it, as the U.N. hates America.

This is why it's good Bush was elected instead of Kerry---Kerry would support this kind of crap.

I just wanted to hear what everyone thought about this worldwide tax.

(source) (http://www.weforum.org/site/homepublic.nsf/Content/Chirac+Warns+Poor+Could+Revolt+If+Left+No+Hope+For+Future+-+And+Proposes+International+Tax+To+Fight+Poverty)

I agree its a bad idea and that its good that Bush doesnt do this kind of thing, the UN does hate us. They are pretty much only interested in us for our money, we pay the UN bills Ill have you know. We should just withdraw, the UN sucks, they let everyone ignore there rules, Iraq broke 14 of their regulations and the UN didnt do jack shit! Without the US the UN will suck though, so maybe we should sit in just to make them feel important.