NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok so I'm on AIM and another one of my idiotic liberal friends has to goad me into an anti-libertarian argument by IMing me some really bashing statement about libertarianism.

I wouldn't mind his anti-libertarian argument so much if he hadn't trolled me into responding, but . . .

Lefties just cant f*cking let me be, can he? I mean, I've already had a Democrat come up to me and yell at me to come to a Young Democrats' club meeting (then bash me later for being libertarian), another one have to appeal to some source DAYS AFTER WE FINISHED OUR DEBATE/DISCUSSION, and now this!

I'm a liberal and frankly I don't give a fuck about you or what you think. There, are you happy?

I'm a liberal and frankly I don't give a fuck about you or what you think. There, are you happy?
I'm no liberal, because that doesn't mean the same to you yanks...I'm an out and out Lefty...and I ditto the above comment.

*hug*

I think Libertarians are cool on social issues but on economic issues they want corporate monopolies to enslave us all

Reconsider your choice of friends. The only problems I have are one Republican friend who seems to think I like Kerry and one gay, Christian, Democrat friend who just seems to like arguing.

You'd likely encounter the same thing if you hung around conservatives.
Libertarians tend to take a lot of flak from both sides.

You'd likely encounter the same thing if you hung around conservatives.
The thing is that my mother is conservative, and a number of my friends are - (they for some reason don't go attacking all my ideals)

I think Libertarians are cool on social issues but on economic issues they want corporate monopolies to enslave us all
Actually, the point is that we DON'T want corporate monopolies to enslave us all. When you make restrictions on businesses, you reduce competition. Just look at the drug war. We make it harder for people to sell drugs. Drug dealers start making a lot more money. Coincidence? Yeah right.

The thing is that my mother is conservative, and a number of my friends are - (they for some reason don't go attacking all my ideals)
I thought you argued politics with your mom all the time

I thought you argued politics with your mom all the time
Oh I do, but she's nowhere near as bad as all my liberal friends

Everyone pisses me off. That's why I'll be bringing something delightful into school... :fluffle:

Actually, the point is that we DON'T want corporate monopolies to enslave us all. When you make restrictions on businesses, you reduce competition. Just look at the drug war. We make it harder for people to sell drugs. Drug dealers start making a lot more money. Coincidence? Yeah right.
but regulations prevent monopolies from forming

Oh I do, but she's nowhere near as bad as all my liberal friends
we're in a culture war--trust me the conservatives are just as fanatical for their side too

I think Libertarians are cool on social issues but on economic issues they want corporate monopolies to enslave us all

No we don't. We want free-market capitalism to generate rampant competition and PREVENT unjust monopolies being held. Conisder the alternitive - allowing the government to decide who has the monopoly, or worse still, just creating a monopoly of their own.

but regulations prevent monopolies from forming
No, they don't. That's the point I just made. Regulations turn leading companies into monopolies. It's like you have a bunch of people with knives. The strongest person has a slight advantage. Then, take away the knives.

No we don't. We want free-market capitalism to generate rampant competition and PREVENT unjust monopolies being held. Conisder the alternitive - allowing the government to decide who has the monopoly, or worse still, just creating a monopoly of their own.
then why is it that free market capitalism is only benefitting corporate monopolies and hurting everyone else?

Ok so I'm on AIM and another one of my idiotic liberal friends has to goad me into an anti-libertarian argument by IMing me some really bashing statement about libertarianism.

I wouldn't mind his anti-libertarian argument so much if he hadn't trolled me into responding, but . . .

Lefties just cant f*cking let me be, can he? I mean, I've already had a Democrat come up to me and yell at me to come to a Young Democrats' club meeting (then bash me later for being libertarian), another one have to appeal to some source DAYS AFTER WE FINISHED OUR DEBATE/DISCUSSION, and now this!

Sound almost like religious fundamentalists, don't they? :D

then why is it that free market capitalism is only benefitting corporate monopolies and hurting everyone else?

Yeah, just like the evil chip and component makers and the company that put it together oppressed you by making you buy a computer. :rolleyes:

then why is it that free market capitalism is only benefitting corporate monopolies and hurting everyone else?
Because it's already too difficult to start a new business. That's why we want to cut taxes and remove restrictions that discourage competition.

Yeah, just like the evil chip and component makers and the company that put it together oppressed you by making you buy a computer. :rolleyes:
the socialism of our military budget is the grand daddy of computers

No, they don't. That's the point I just made. Regulations turn leading companies into monopolies. It's like you have a bunch of people with knives. The strongest person has a slight advantage. Then, take away the knives.
At which point the strongest person still has a slight advantage. Hell, they have an even larger advantage since they no longer have to worry about getting a knife in the ribs.

Because it's already too difficult to start a new business. That's why we want to cut taxes and remove restrictions that discourage competition.
then cut taxes and restrictions on small emerging businesses ONLY

then cut taxes and restrictions on small emerging businesses ONLY

Jeeze! I never thought I'd hear you say something like that! Now you sound like President Bush! :D

then why is it that free market capitalism is only benefitting corporate monopolies and hurting everyone else?

In a free market, a monopoly of temporary nature will occur if a provider gives service which draws a significantly larger customer base than its competitors. If lots of people didn't like starbucks, they wouldn't buy coffee from them, and another coffee provider would seize the market. It's how business works.

Ok so I'm on AIM and another one of my idiotic liberal friends has to goad me into an anti-libertarian argument by IMing me some really bashing statement about libertarianism.

I wouldn't mind his anti-libertarian argument so much if he hadn't trolled me into responding, but . . .

Lefties just cant f*cking let me be, can he? I mean, I've already had a Democrat come up to me and yell at me to come to a Young Democrats' club meeting (then bash me later for being libertarian), another one have to appeal to some source DAYS AFTER WE FINISHED OUR DEBATE/DISCUSSION, and now this!
If you're going to be Libertarian, get a thick skin becuase you'll get heat from the wingers all the time.
Remeber, friends on both sides are going to be pissed that they've lost someone smart and politically conscious to a better team.
The Democrats are very sensitive about this right now.
As you probably already know, the only liberal torts you'll ever hear will involve big government and quasisocialism.
Have facts ready to point out the phallacy of his arguement--
It usually boils down to one of two statements that have innumerable facts and statistics to back up, thanks to the FOIA:

1. Governments make for shitty Robin Hoods.
2. A government that wishes to tell you how to spend your money or who to give it to will eventually want to do the same regarding your lifestyle choices as well.
3. They won't have facts to back shit up, because unlike them, there isn't a vast wealth of Libertarian fuck ups to reference.
4. Remind them that their Chomsky-induced nightmares aren't validated in the real world as you see it. Economic restrictions actually hurt small business owners, not major global corps, who are basically above the law and always will be thanks to crafty lawyers. So their economics policies meant to spank the big boys only harm hard-working entrepeneurial types who dream of making something for themselves.
5. Remind them of the French predicament.

Jeeze! I never thought I'd hear you say something like that! Now you sound like President Bush! :D
No-Bush only thinks mega-billionaires have the right to profit

If you're going to be Libertarian, get a thick skin becuase you'll get heat from the wingers all the time. . . .
Heh, good post. And where's the nearest skin shop? I would indeed like to exchange my current model for a much thicker one :D

If you're going to be Libertarian, get a thick skin becuase you'll get heat from the wingers all the time.
Remeber, friends on both sides are going to be pissed that they've lost someone smart and politically conscious to a better team.
The Democrats are very sensitive about this right now.
As you probably already know, the only liberal torts you'll ever hear will involve big government and quasisocialism.
Have facts ready to point out the phallacy of his arguement--
It usually boils down to one of two statements that have innumerable facts and statistics to back up, thanks to the FOIA:

1. Governments make for shitty Robin Hoods.
2. A government that wishes to tell you how to spend your money or who to give it to will eventually want to do the same regarding your lifestyle choices as well.
3. They won't have facts to back shit up, because unlike them, there isn't a vast wealth of Libertarian fuck ups to reference.
4. Remind them that their Chomsky-induced nightmares aren't validated in the real world as you see it. Economic restrictions actually hurt small business owners, not major global corps, who are basically above the law and always will be thanks to crafty lawyers. So their economics policies meant to spank the big boys only harm hard-working entrepeneurial types who dream of making something for themselves.
5. Remind them of the French predicament.
the size of Govt vastly expanded under Republican Bush and the GOP believes in Big Govt if it means stealing for the greed of the corporate elite--Bush is very anticompetition when it comes to the pharmaceutical industry too

then cut taxes and restrictions on small emerging businesses ONLY
Well, besides Eutrusca's comment, there's more to it than that. For one thing, it isn't fair. Second, when you tax a company, how much of that money do you think comes out of the administration's salaries? I'll tell you. None of it. It comes out of the salaries of the working class. That decreases the working class's purchasing power, which hurts our economy. It might also increase unemployment or cause outsourcing. If we really want to make things fair for those who don't own companies, then there needs to be a job surplus.

wow. its just so true. Im conservative though...

the size of Govt vastly expanded under Republican Bush and the GOP believes in Big Govt if it means stealing for the greed of the corporate elite--Bush is very anticompetition when it comes to the pharmaceutical industry too
That's why I'm so very not a Republican.
Corporate wellfare is even more bullshitty than ineffectual social programs. Definitely worse for America.

Also, the outrageous spending on the military-industrial complex (think Halliburton) is frightening under Republican watch.

then why is it that free market capitalism is only benefitting corporate monopolies and hurting everyone else?

Oh, and while we're on the subject - Hurting everyone else? Free market capitalism is what provides pretty much all of the western world, regardless of wealth, with readily available food and clothing.

Free market capitalism is the reason you have a computer, clothing, or a house, unless of course you built all of these things yourself or they were issued by the government. Capitalism doesn't hurt everyone. It helps everyone.

Oh, and while we're on the subject - Hurting everyone else? Free market capitalism is what provides pretty much all of the western world, regardless of wealth, with readily available food and clothing.

Free market capitalism is the reason you have a computer, clothing, or a house, unless of course you built all of these things yourself or they were issued by the government. Capitalism doesn't hurt everyone. It helps everyone.
why is America suffering economically then?

then why is it that free market capitalism is only benefitting corporate monopolies and hurting everyone else?
C'mon Skapedroe, even you know this is overgeneralized, blanket bullshit.

I own a small business, and free market capitalism is what keeps me in business year after year.
To think that heavier regulation and (oh god) more IRS intervention is going to help me, the small fish, is rediculous and paranoid. To the point of directly affecting my life directly.

I'll need some of that welfare stuff you're always rooting for if your ideas ever become legislated! :p

why is America suffering economically then?
Because Bush is an idiot. The Libertarian stance is "don't tax and don't spend".

why is America suffering economically then?
Because of excessive restricition and taxation, silly!

but regulations prevent monopolies from forming
The opposite really. Regulations lead to government-enforced monopolies, just like in the Soviet Union.