NationStates Jolt Archive

who is the greatest musical mind you can select as many as you like

Right now, it's what's causing this. (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=392703)

Arnold Schönberg for his many interesting books on theory (I still need to read them, but I have heard good things about them,) his innovation in teaching, and his development of twelve-tone music (a pastime of mine, both to write and to play.)

I picked Page, Lennon, Hendrix and Cobain. Cobain gets in more for his lyrics than anything else.

Interestingly enough, I didnt notice any musical geniouses on the poll. You could at least have included Mozart, who was pretty radical during his era and introduced some interesting chord progressions.

Barry Manilow.




What?












What?

Only Bob Dylan from that lot. Also, Syd Barrett and Eric Clapton. People weren't wrong, when they were graffiti-ing 'Clapton is God'.

Only Bob Dylan from that lot. Also, Syd Barrett and Eric Clapton. People weren't wrong, when they were graffiti-ing 'Clapton is God'.

What about the Japanese publishing company that incorrectly printed his name as "Eric Crapton?"

Interestingly enough, I didnt notice any musical geniouses on the poll. You could at least have included Mozart, who was pretty radical during his era and introduced some interesting chord progressions.

obviously youve never listened to the deep lyrics of Dylan, the poetry of Lennon, the talent at guitar which hendrix possesed and you obviously are choosing to ignore the fact that armstrong changed and shaped a whole genre of music.
sure mozart was great along with bach and behtoven but i find it difficult for you to appreciate any of their music if you choose to ignore greatness when you here it.

Only Bob Dylan from that lot. Also, Syd Barrett and Eric Clapton. People weren't wrong, when they were graffiti-ing 'Clapton is God'.


WHOOPS i really didnt mean to put Jeff Beck in front of Clapton

obviously youve never listened to the deep lyrics of Dylan, the poetry of Lennon, the talent at guitar which hendrix possesed and you obviously are choosing to ignore the fact that armstrong changed and shaped a whole genre of music.
sure mozart was great along with bach and behtoven but i find it difficult for you to appreciate any of their music if you choose to ignore greatness when you here it.

So you are telling me to evaluate music by the poetry it is set to, and the gendre it is in?

OK! Schubert wins hands down! *sings Lebenslied*

But he didnt even write his own poetry :confused:

Tom Lehrer, but I notice you have only included contempary artitsts on there. Why?

Perhaps this poll should be greatest popular music mind of the last 100 years. Or greatest popular music performer (lyrics not really being an indication of a musical mind and all).

And with regard to Classical composers - you may not be able to appreciate it but the chaps on your list wouldn't be there with out Bach, Hayden et al.

Well, I dont view Bach as exceptional, but it is true that Bach was part of the base on which Jazz and early Rock were formed.

If I had to choose someone modern, it would be some group that has pulled unusual stunts musically, and many of them happen to be rappers...

Perhaps someone from Boards of Canada or Autechre though?

Just in case you are wondering, I have nothing against these guys, I just cant call them geniouses.

Ray Charles, personally I don't see what all the fuss about Lennon is - I much preffer harrison.

So you are telling me to evaluate music by the poetry it is set to, and the gendre it is in?

OK! Schubert wins hands down! *sings Lebenslied*

But he didnt even write his own poetry :confused:


im not telling you what you should think but these men shaped society with their thoughts which they managed to put into lyrics which leave you in awe if you deny these men of their genius you cannot grant it upon classical composers. i cannot really judge the classical composers as i am 15 living in modern times to me i am bewildered of musical talent i know i cant accomplish. i am not saying i could write a symphony but music has changed and i am not able to see how radically brilliant mozart was in his time all i know is that people have told me of it that is the only evidence i have. just like depth was the greatest invention in the art world. it seems that if i was arround in that era i would have discovered it it seems so obvious. i am not denying mozart of greatness im merely offended at your ignorance and one mindedness

Well, I dont view Bach as exceptional...

Why not?

im not telling you what you should think but these men shaped society with their thoughts which they managed to put into lyrics which leave you in awe if you deny these men of their genius you cannot grant it upon classical composers. i cannot really judge the classical composers as i am 15 living in modern times to me i am bewildered of musical talent i know i cant accomplish. i am not saying i could write a symphony but music has changed and i am not able to see how radically brilliant mozart was in his time all i know is that people have told me of it that is the only evidence i have. just like depth was the greatest invention in the art world. it seems that if i was arround in that era i would have discovered it it seems so obvious. i am not denying mozart of greatness im merely offended at your ignorance and one mindedness

What bewilders me is that you seem to be under the impression that these were the innovators of modern styles. Indeed, some of the examples, like John Lennon, were playing music of a type well known over 300 years ago.

Most of the musical innovations have already been done. Schönberg is a pleasant exception, as he made a lot of progress and lived in the 20th century, and drastically raised interest in atonalism with his ventures into 12 tone theory.

Why not?

Bach's theory is sound but it is also really simple. He also tends to make his piano pieces really difficult to play by throwing activity in wherever he can so I have grown something of a distaste for him.

Bach's theory is sound but it is also really simple. He also tends to make his piano pieces really difficult to play by throwing activity in wherever he can so I have grown something of a distaste for him.

That's cool. Bear in mind though that in his own time he was innovative rather than simplistic and that the difficult passages serve the development of the music rather than being their for the sake of difficulty.

(I'm not trying to persuade you that you have to like Bach - just saying that he is important in the development of music even if he seems a little dull now.)

That's cool. Bear in mind though that in his own time he was innovative rather than simplistic and that the difficult passages serve the development of the music rather than being their for the sake of difficulty.

(I'm not trying to persuade you that you have to like Bach - just saying that he is important in the development of music even if he seems a little dull now.)

Oh no, I love Bach, and I understand his historical importance, but I just dont find him to represent my concept of "genious." Perhaps if I was more accustomed to the music of his era, I would.

Oh no, I love Bach, and I understand his historical importance, but I just dont find him to represent my concept of "genious." Perhaps if I was more accustomed to the music of his era, I would.

The genius lies in fundamentally altering people's perceptions of what musical structure and harmony could be.
A genius in relation to all the musical changes after him - no. But in relation to the music that went before him I would say he was a genius

Ooh cool, I'm the only person that voted Nick Drake!
I guess that means I have indie cred or something now. Because, as we all know, to be indie-cool you have to like bands that nobody's ever heard of or that everybody reviles.

:D

im a nirvana fan but even i have 2 disagree with Kurt been on that list

Interestingly enough, I didnt notice any musical geniouses on the poll. You could at least have included Mozart, who was pretty radical during his era and introduced some interesting chord progressions.

Lol, I cliked on here with a vote for J S Bach in mind (despite the fact his chorales were the bane of my A level Music). Compared to the some of the "geniuses" on the poll (Kurt Cobain??? Come on now) he's just in a different league.

Ooh cool, I'm the only person that voted Nick Drake!
I guess that means I have indie cred or something now. Because, as we all know, to be indie-cool you have to like bands that nobody's ever heard of or that everybody reviles.

:D

Oh I'm sorry, I voted for Nick Drake too. Have I destroyed your indie cred? I'm so sorry!!!! *weeps* Forgive me!

;)

Neil was my pick. It's hard to describe, but his music has always felt like a biography of North America a he moves through it.

who is the greatest musical mind you can select as many as you like

If you were going to go so far as to include Kurt Cobain, why not include Trent Reznor, who is much, much more musically talented that Cobain ever was?

Bach!

Bach was amazing. You try composing a fugue in 4, 5 or... 8 voices. Its hard to make it sound harmonically pleasing. And then some of the stories about him, you know, improvising fugues and such... well, that just boggles my mind.

Bach gets mad credit in my book.

Hrmmm .... where are the Jazz artists?

Anyway, my book of musical geniuses, from the perspective of a music teacher:

(In order of era)

1] Pythagoras. Without his careful study of the vibrations of various lengths of string and sizes/shapes of objects and their affect on sound, we would not have music at all.

2] Bach. Bach's theory was so perfect that it is still the primary course of training for all musicians. From complex fugues/sonatas to the simplest of three-chord rock and roll, none of it would be possible without Bach's innovations.

3] Mozart. Not so much for his music, but for his uncanny ability to appeal to the common man. He helped bring music out of the church and give it to the people. Europe's first pop star.

4] Beethoven. Despite all his rage, he was still just a rat in a cage. His passion, anger, and fear express in his music better than any composer I have heard of before, or since. His use of dynamics and phrasing is unmatched. For me, this is music perfection. Europe's first rock and roll star (he even trashed hotel rooms!).

5] Stravinsky. Brought music out in its most primal form, bringing together Bach's theory with African tribal rythms. It has been argued that his music was the beginning whispers of Jazz.

6] Charlie Parker. If I have to say more, you're retarded.

7] Miles Davis. Defined "cool" and made it his own. If you ain't Miles, you ain't cool.

8] Prince Rogers Nelson aka Prince. Brilliant all around musician. Composer, songwriter, and producer. His originality and energy are unmatched by anyone alive today.

And there ya go.

Having a multiple choice poll really kills the point of asking for the greatest, does it not.

I voted for all of them.

These guys are all pretty good, but I don't think they should be called geniuses. If you want geniuses, go back to an earlier age, with Mozart and Bach and Beethoven. THOSE are geniuses.

None of them are geniuses. Maybe out of popular music.... but in the whole world of music they would not rank highly on musical genius. You don't include any classical composers, as people have already said. And there are also many underground artists who are stunning in technicallity, innovation, experimentation, beauty etc etc. You don't include any of the guitar virtuossos such as Steve Vai.

Some I could maybe accept. Hendrix changed music, tried loads of new things, made many classic songs, was talented. Still think he's over rated though. But Kurt Cobain? Seriously? He was awful. So incredibly mediocre and dull. Did you know he tried to get into many American Doom bands but was refused because he wasn't good enough? Found that interesting. Nirvana were so over-rated.

Thank you Keruvalia, Thank you thank you! You beat me to the professional musician answer!

Stravinski is tops on my list. His music was very controvercial at the time, although we consider it almost normal now. People couldn't handle it then, much like today's adults can't handle bands like Tool and NIN. The premiere of "The Rite of Spring" incited a riot in Paris. It's hard to compete with that! Beethoven did pretty much the same in his day, but he was much more accepted. No riots for him.

My 20th century list has to include John Cage, just because I think his pieces for prepared piano are very original. He figured out a way to make the piano sound completly different from itself, without destroying it :-) Schoenberg and Copland are on that list as well.

My modern music list goes to Jimi, the Beatles, and Pink Floyd. I'm not gonna just say Syd Barrett, since he died very early in Floyd's history. You can't really give him credit for most of what Floyd did.

Well, I'll go and analyze them all then vote.

Bob Dylan - Written many songs, but they were mostly all of one genre and many are quite simmilar. No.
Neil Young - Same as above, though he did revolutionize and start Grunge. No.
Jimmy Page - Revolutionary guitarist. Gets one point.
John Lennon - Wrote hundreds of songs in many different genres. Gets two points.
Jimi Hendrix - Another revolutionary guitarist. One point.
Kurt Cobain - Barely any musical tallent. Less than no.
Louis Armstrong - Amazing trumpet player and a jazz great. One point.
Jeff Beck - Third revolutionary guitarist. One point.
Ray Charles - No comment. One point.
Nick Drake - I have no idea who this is, so No.

My choice out of this list is therefore John Lennon; Closely followed by Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Louis Armstrong, Jeff Beck and Ray Charles. Bottom is Kurt Cobain.

Edit: I agree with many posters above that since these are only contemporart musicians, they can hardly compete. However, my choices remain.

My other choices: Rush as a band for their work, the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Motzart.

There are so many... but I´m content with just one: Yngve Malmsten or Yngwie Malmsteen for you Americans.

One of the, if no thee, most influental Shredder and neo-classical guitarist of the 80´s.

There are so many... but I´m content with just one: Yngve Malmsten or Yngwie Malmsteen for you Americans.

One of the, if no thee, most influental Shredder and neo-classical guitarist of the 80´s.

Agreed! Go neo-classical shred!

Agreed! Go neo-classical shred!

Yeah, totally! ;)

I am not a big fan of his lyrics though... but his instrumentals... wow. Just wow! ;)

He is the one who made me pick up the guitar after 8 years again, ;) .

Agreed. Yngwie Malmsteen is amazing along with the whole Neo-classical genre.

Have any of you seen him at the G3 concert? I only have the dvd, I would love to see him live.

Have any of you got any decent neo-classical reccomendations? Only just getting into it. I like Thou Shalt Suffer, amazing Somnium albulm.

Agreed. Yngwie Malmsteen is amazing along with the whole Neo-classical genre.

Have any of you seen him at the G3 concert? I only have the dvd, I would love to see him live.

Have any of you got any decent neo-classical reccomendations? Only just getting into it. I like Thou Shalt Suffer, amazing Somnium albulm.

I got the "G3 Live in Denver", it´s awesome. ;)

And I might (with 98,99% certainty) be seeing Yngwie live this summer, wohoo! ;)

Well, unfortunately neo-classical metal(rock) isn´t given much space in todays music business. So... you pretty much have to look around, everywhere!
I can't give you any recommendation right now since I am in a hurry. But I might telegram you some later.

All of them are horrible, how can you say any of them are musical genious? Just because they were pop culture doesnt mean they were genious.

All of them are horrible, how can you say any of them are musical genious? Just because they were pop culture doesnt mean they were genious. Except for jeff beck, he is actually good.

I got the "G3 Live in Denver", it´s awesome. ;)

And I might (with 98,99% certainty) be seeing Yngwie live this summer, wohoo! ;)

Well, unfortunately neo-classical metal(rock) isn´t given much space in todays music business. So... you pretty much have to look around, everywhere!
I can't give you any recommendation right now since I am in a hurry. But I might telegram you some later.

Got the same one. They're all amazing as are their bands.

*goes green with envy* lucky lucky person :p

I know, it's a shame... If you get a chance, thanks :)

Brian May and Freddie Mercury. I loved Queen's music anyway, but some of the lesser well known album tracks were lyrically stunning as well (primarily written by the two members mentioned). Classically, Beethoven is my personal favourite, though I became fixated with Bach as a toddler (!) and therefore still hold affection for him.