NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, which is it?

Latin. Very few irregularities - and those are documented.

It also sounds nice (at least to me).

Manx :)

:)
[I]i'm studying Latin at my school in Italy.
it's very interesting,but a little bit difficult
vale

The Empire of Presidency would like to know what languages the dead speak.
We have no scientific/ documented evidence of this.

:)
[I]i'm studying Latin at my school in Italy.
it's very interesting,but a little bit difficult
vale
You're from Italy and you're having a hard time studying Latin? Just imagine how difficult it has to be for non-Italian speakers ;)

Gothic.

I like the way Welsh is on there. Does the author of this thread have strong opinions regarding the vital status of Welsh?

Irish, definatly, I'm taking lessons. Though its really not dead and coming back, I still included it, along with Welsh.

(its not called "Gaelic" either! That's the scottish language)

THE CELTS WILL LIVE ON!

Irish has NEVER been a dead language. it did wane slightly in the early 19th century but it never quite died. I'm pretty sure Welsh has never been 'dead' either.

I have a certain love of Old English.

Not sure if that counts as a dead language though.

I have a certain love of Old English.

Not sure if that counts as a dead language though.
Seen as nobody speaks it today, i'm pretty sure it does.

Welsh looks so complicated. On my school trip to England, we ventured into Wales for about 15 minutes (just to say we did, and not get too off schedule). The welcome sign looked cool (nice dragon), but I think "Welcome to Wales" was about 85 letters long.

I voted Aramaic, because it was the closest one to Hittite, which I'm using several words for my conlang of my country :D Yeah, I know, I spend too much time on this....

Welsh looks so complicated. I think "Welcome to Wales" was about 85 letters long.

the reason Welsh sounds complicated is because they speak it backwards. :D

The Aryan language.
It's clean.

the reason Welsh sounds complicated is because they speak it backwards. :D

Llamedos?

Would have used Llareggub, by I like Discworld dammit : )

Manx :)

It's only gone dead in my lifetime (I'm 31), but absolutely. Fortunately, we still have the cats. :)

Welsh is english that has been digested by a sheep with diorhhea. Latin is the best dead language as it is clean, logical and easy to learn.
P.S If the Welsh learned to spell then the welsh language would disappear. Long Live England! conqueror of Scotland and Wales

Llamedos?

Would have used Llareggub, by I like Discworld dammit : )

nice. taht poc ot gnol os em koot ti eveileb tnac i. ( !!ah ah ah)

I can speak a bit of Aramaic

Sutan Mutta - divine mother
Ab - heart
Nook - I am
Um - In
Ne - Name
Ra - God
Serapissum - male Seraphim
Serapissim - female Seraphim

Long Live England! conqueror of Scotland and Wales

but what have you done lately? these lazy imperialists.... :rolleyes:

Church Slavonic
Cornish
Greek (ancient)
Norse

-Markreich

Do you know who Queensryche is? Vote here!! : http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=389278

I've been wondering about Wales actually...

Is it a separate country or what? It's not on the map, but people from wales will say 'i'm from <wherever>, wales' rather than 'I'm from <wherever>, england." I've actually been wondering about this for a while.

Is it just local pride?

[]COLOR=Indigo]i take latin. it sucks.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

but what have you done lately? these lazy imperialists.... :rolleyes:
I think you'll find that we nobly liberated the people of Iraq (along with our respected american allies) from their oppressive regime and have got our sights on Iran and North Korea. Anyway where are you from? I could ask you the same question.Anyhow it seems you do not doubt the military crapulence of wales and scotland at all points in their past. I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind the French of the score (in war victories) between the Uk and France:
UK: 7
France : 2 ties

I've been wondering about Wales actually...

Is it a separate country or what? It's not on the map, but people from wales will say 'i'm from <wherever>, wales' rather than 'I'm from <wherever>, england." I've actually been wondering about this for a while.

Is it just local pride?
You might find it is on maps (except a recent EU publication that completely ignored it and replace it with sea).


It is part of the UK, but not part of England (Like Scotland or Northern Ireland too).

However there probably is a bit of local pride there.

I've been wondering about Wales actually...

Is it a separate country or what? It's not on the map, but people from wales will say 'i'm from <wherever>, wales' rather than 'I'm from <wherever>, england." I've actually been wondering about this for a while.

Is it just local pride?
Th welsh like to think their still independent but England still has all the power. we let them hold onto their shitty little language and country. wales isn't on the map because its part of the UK (England, Scotland and Wales +Northern Ireland).
The welsh are a obstinate people who love to coinfuse and annoy (hence Welsh as a language)

I think you'll find that we nobly liberated the people of Iraq (along with our respected american allies) from their oppressive regime and have got our sights on Iran and North Korea. Anyway where are you from? I could ask you the same question.Anyhow it seems you do not doubt the military crapulence of wales and scotland at all points in their past. I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind the French of the score (in war victories) between the Uk and France:
UK: 7
France : 2 ties
When has the UK gone to war with France?

The Napoleonic Wars.

Latin. It's structured, used often, and logical, inter alia. Greek is ambiguous. Highly ambiguous. The rest are...illogical in their own ways. The pronounciation for the imaginary irish word 'foral' would probably be 'pishlakw-zoigj!' or something like that. The 'best' dead language also has to be sufficiently complex, and also simple to write. Latin uses the roman alphabet, in use today. Pictograms don't really cut it.

As for honest opinion on those who say latin 'sucks' (haven't read the thread so I don't know if anyone said that yet)...it's not latin that sucks.
...


It's Aramaic!

'Course! Joseph of Aramatheia!

[]COLOR=Indigo]i take latin. it sucks.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Latin does not suck. Only to people too stupid to understand its brilliance say that. As they say in that noble tongue. "Tu caudex es. Mater tua obesus est."

English, since it's been so bastardized in the USA, it's really ceased to be a language, replaced by Jive, Ebonics, Hickish, New England "Kennedy" English, and then some people just can't be understood at all (Sort of like Boomhower from "King of the Hil").


English used to be a nice language, until people ruined it.



Added: Let's not forget the Terminator is governor of "Calie-four-knee-ah"

(Foreign influence has ruined the English language, as it was previously known in the USA, combined with domestic bastardizations, we will see a gradual decline in the English language until it becomes something of the past, a distant relic, going the way of Latin)

Th welsh like to think their still independent but England still has all the power. we let them hold onto their shitty little language and country. wales isn't on the map because its part of the UK (England, Scotland and Wales +Northern Ireland).

Hmm:

http://img163.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img163&image=wales3xp.png

Latin does not suck. Only to people too stupid to understand its brilliance say that. As they say in that noble tongue. "Tu caudex es. Mater tua obesus est."

You are a tree trunk. Your mother is obese.

What? It should be obesa ;)

When has the UK gone to war with France?

The Napoleonic Wars.
Also: Hundred years war
Seven years war (the one with Malborough)
War to control Canada
War to control India
and many others. for more information go to www.albinoblacksheep.com. click text files and then selct "french military history/victories"

You are a tree trunk. Your mother is obese.

What? It should be obesa ;)
Slight grammar mistake there. forgot about adjective ending . "caudex" translates as "blockhead" or "idiot". Latin still doesn't suck and that was my main point.

When has the UK gone to war with France?

The Napoleonic Wars.

Nice catch (ignoring the change of status of Eire).

Also: Hundred years war
Seven years war (the one with Malborough)
War to control Canada
War to control India
and many others. for more information go to www.albinoblacksheep.com. click text files and then selct "french military history/victories"

Incorrect.

If you had ancient Prateo-Tomaenian in the list, I' had voted for that. So, I voted for Latin.

Strafftz da hülten uh einer dschisa kraggen! ;)

Also: Hundred years war
Seven years war (the one with Malborough)
War to control Canada
War to control India
and many others. for more information go to www.albinoblacksheep.com. click text files and then selct "french military history/victories"
NB. you did say the UK. Who didn't fight the 100 years war.

What about Sanscrit. It is dead.

The French haven't won any wars by thenselves. They even lost their own revolution (Napoleon, was a Corsican and one of his parents was Italians).

Nice catch (ignoring the change of status of Eire).


To be truthful, it wasn't ignoring, rather having no idea where Eire fits into this. My knowledge of the Napleonic wars rarely extends after "it happened" and a few key battles.

I have a certain love of Old English.

Not sure if that counts as a dead language though.

A dead language is a language that isn't an official language of any country in the world.

To be truthful, it wasn't ignoring, rather having no idea where Eire fits into this. My knowledge of the Napleonic wars rarely extends after "it happened" and a few key battles.

The UK changed from being The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland to being The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1927 (although the Republic had actually split away in 1922) . Whether this constitutes a fundamental change in the UK or not is a matter for debate.

What about Sanscrit. It is dead.

The French haven't won any wars by thenselves. They even lost their own revolution (Napoleon, was a Corsican and one of his parents was Italians).

You may as well claim that the Mughals didn't fight the British since they hired mercenaries.

And the revolution wasn't really a war. There was fighting, but not really clearly defined sides that lasted over the coarse of the whole revolution (except for the monarchists)

The UK changed from being The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland to being The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1927 (although the Republic had actually split away in 1922) . Whether this constitutes a fundamental change in the UK or not is a matter for debate.
Ahh right, that. Completely forgot about that (I remember your "which nation younger thread" ages ago though)

Sorry, I thought that you were refering around early 19th Century time

Pahlavi (Middle Persian) or Avestan are the best launguages no longer used to learn.

I think you'll find that we nobly liberated the people of Iraq (along with our respected american allies) from their oppressive regime

that's a matter of opinion. swapping oppressors is not a liberation. if your going to meddle in other peoples affairs at least finish the job properly, how many coalition soldiers have died since the conflict in Iraq 'ended'. i will finish by pointing out that the British Empire oppressed millions of different peoples. Time to get off your high horse perhaps?...

I think you'll find that we nobly liberated the people of Iraq (along with our respected american allies) from their oppressive regime ...

Exactly what did the Americans have to do with the end of the British Mandate in 1932?

A dead language is a language that isn't an official language of any country in the world.

Irish is the official first language of Ireland ergo: not dead. also recently confirmed as an official EU language. ( and it's about time.. ) :)

A dead language is a language that isn't an official language of any country in the world.
From where do you get this definition?

From where do you get this definition?

According to it, Latin is not a dead language (Vatican City).

English, since it's been so bastardized in the USA, it's really ceased to be a language, replaced by Jive, Ebonics, Hickish, New England "Kennedy" English, and then some people just can't be understood at all (Sort of like Boomhower from "King of the Hil").


English used to be a nice language, until people ruined it.



Added: Let's not forget the Terminator is governor of "Calie-four-knee-ah"

(Foreign influence has ruined the English language, as it was previously known in the USA, combined with domestic bastardizations, we will see a gradual decline in the English language until it becomes something of the past, a distant relic, going the way of Latin)


Ya,we bettre speek da auld anglish.

I have a certain love of Old English.

Oh yeah. It sure was basically German.

Ya,we bettre speek da auld anglish.

Ill keep wae ma Lallans, maesel.

Oh yeah. It sure was basically German.
Very similar to German certainly, but I wouldn't say it was basically German.

1337

I'd have to say the 'Belgian', an often forgotten branch of the Indo-European languages. Contrary to what most believe, the 'Belgian' was not a German language, nor was it a Celtic language. But it suffered under Celtic, German and Latin influences, so that it eventually disappeared..

...it's only a matter of time. :D

-Markreich

Do you know who Queensryche is? Vote here!! : http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=389278

1337
If only

French

...it's only a matter of time. :D


I think it will take a long time to dissappear judging by the charachter of the French. I mean Breton is still spoken and other periphory languages are either still spoken or only dissappeared relatively recently.

English, since it's been so bastardized in the USA, it's really ceased to be a language, replaced by Jive, Ebonics, Hickish, New England "Kennedy" English, and then some people just can't be understood at all (Sort of like Boomhower from "King of the Hil").


English used to be a nice language, until people ruined it.



Added: Let's not forget the Terminator is governor of "Calie-four-knee-ah"

(Foreign influence has ruined the English language, as it was previously known in the USA, combined with domestic bastardizations, we will see a gradual decline in the English language until it becomes something of the past, a distant relic, going the way of Latin)

I read that aristocratic English in the 18th century (when the language was supposed by Samuel Johnson and others to have reached its zenith) was rather close to modern "hickish," with very casual and lazy enunciations such as "ain't," and the "ah" sound in the place of "er" at the end of words like "runner." The American South has preserved traditional English language better than any other group of English speakers in the world, including the English themselves.

Old English is my favorite, or, more correctly, Anglo-saxon. It is NOT basically German. I chose it because my favorite author (JRR Tolkien) was a 'Professor of Old English and Old English studies' at Oxford University.
And Lakenland, are you referring to the Mandate's end in 1932 or the Iraq War of 2003?

I think it will take a long time to dissappear judging by the charachter of the French. I mean Breton is still spoken and other periphory languages are either still spoken or only dissappeared relatively recently.

I agree, of course... it's only a matter of time. ;)

But Welsh isn't dead yet!

A dead language is a language that isn't an official language of any country in the world.

Official language has nothing to do with it. Other than Guarani in Paraguay and Quechua and Aymara in Peru (co-official with Spanish in both countries), no native American Indian language is official anywhere but several of these languages are still very much alive.
A dead language is one that is no longer used in daily commercial and cultural life. Old Slavonic for instance (my personal choice but not one of the options given) is used today only in liturgical services in some of the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern-rite Catholic churches. The worshippers in those churches haven't spoken it in centuries otherwise.

Latin is the root of many major languages.

Latin dead but somehow useful especally in science.

Why is Welsh and irish on the list? The Welsh still speak Welsh and the Irish still speak Irish. I know not all the people speak it but it is till very much alive.

Latin is definitely the best "dead language" most of my friends and I are avid learners of history and I have taken latin for 2 years, going on to my third, i have been to 2 very large province wide competitions for latin, greek, rome, and greece, it's very exhilirating. I love latin.... Veni, Vidi, Vici Cogito, Ergo sum and my all time fav. said by my friend "ego sum pecuniam"

:D GO LATIN!!!! :D :cool:

Dead languages suck. if they didnt suck, they wouldnt be dead.

Why is Welsh and irish on the list? The Welsh still speak Welsh and the Irish still speak Irish. I know not all the people speak it but it is till very much alive.

Yes, I know. When I first started this poll, I needed enough options. I now realise my errer.

English just letting the Welsh keep it.....
The word Welsh is derived from Waleas....which equtes to foreigner in old Saxon.
So that means that your ancestors refered to us as foreigners, concidering THEY were in the foreign nation, that means that you don't belong on the island..

The welsh word for English is Saes or Saesneg....which actually means Saxon.
And as for the person who spoke about the Welcome to Wales sign....I assume you are talking of the phrase Croeso Y Gymru? Which is 12 letters and the English is 14....which means you were being lazy ;)

Considering I speak Welsh everyday, being told it's a dead language is something of a shock..As for English people who attack our accent, they never seem to take into account that our accent is based around our Language and not English. Also our language is almost totaly pure.....not a bastardized version of.....Latin/French/German/Scandanavian etc.......also, why is it that Welsh children and adults have scored higher in English literacy than the rest of the UK for more or less the last 20 years? And we can't spell......brilliant.

Here are a few facts and things, for fun etc...

The facts and the jokes

Wales is 160 miles long by 60 miles wide and is the same size as, er, Wales. The name 'Wales' comes from the Anglo-Saxon Waleas, meaning foreigner. The Welsh name is Cymru.

For centuries the Welsh fought off the Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans but succumbed to unification with England in the 16th century. Some power was ceded back to its National Assembly in 1999. Wales's struggles have left it with more castles per square mile than any other country in Western Europe.

Wales has an average of 1,296mm of rain a year - and four hours of sunshine a day.

Famous Welsh men and women include Harri Tudur who founded the Tudor dynasty and was crowned Henry VII; Aneurin Bevan who set up the National Health Service; singers Tom Jones, Bryn Terfel and Charlotte Church; actors Richard Burton and Anthony Hopkins; and the 19th-century evolutionary biologist Alfred Russel Wallace who hit upon natural selection at the same time as Charles Darwin - but the Englishman got all the credit.

THE ENGLISH SAY

Welshmen pray on their knees on Sundays and prey on their neighbours the rest of the week.

What's the only good thing to come out of Wales? The M4

THE WELSH SAY

God said to the Welsh: 'I am going to give you this glorious land of lakes and mountains.' So where's the catch, asked the Welsh? 'Wait until you see the neighbours,' replied God.

What's the only good thing to come out of England? The M4

Why did Greek get dissed?

Old Church Slavonic definitely, especially when written in the Glagolitic alphabet. It's the latin of slavic languages.

Will someone from the UK please explain what the deal is with the Isle of Man

The isle of man has the Manx language....i'm not sure which celtic branch it comes from. However I believe it is still spoken by a sizable number of people....I may be slightly wrong. i believe Cornish is the least spoken....it did die out, but was returned by using known cornish words with welsh thrown in.

Why did Greek get dissed?
i think its because greek isnt dead what with it being the language of greece and all

in my opinion greek is the bestest ancient language. they knew stuff about humanity that we can all learn from. and its accessible enough that it almost always makes sense to the modern reader (well not so much homer, but sophocles rules)

From where do you get this definition?


I got it from the professor who teaches us Roman Law at the university of Antwerp. Languages that aren't an official language of any country in the world are either dead or dialects. That is why Latin was until recently still alive and kicking as the official language spoken in Vatican City which is a city-state.

Well there is some truth that "a language is a dialect with an army and navy".
Not universally true though. Again I refer to those Native American languages which are still very much alive though lacking official status anywhere (Navajo for instance in the southwestern US; Nahuatl in Mexico which was the language of the Aztecs and still has about 2 million speakers). Also Yiddish
which today is a dying language due to the Holocaust in Europe and assimilation in the US, prior to WWII was a language with several million speakers and a thriving literature and culture, despite never having official status anywhere.

Phoenician/Carthaginian. And I say that purely from a position of ignorance. Carthage rules, so the language also does. From an aesthetic point of view, latin. I like the way it sounds.

I voted for latin as it is the most useful one to learn tody.
The best, probably aramaic.

Sanskrit. Apparently the grammatical structure is beautiful... And just cos I'm Indian. :D

The isle of man has the Manx language....i'm not sure which celtic branch it comes from. However I believe it is still spoken by a sizable number of people....I may be slightly wrong. i believe Cornish is the least spoken....it did die out, but was returned by using known cornish words with welsh thrown in.

Manx died in 1974 with it's last native speaker, Mr. Ned Maddrell.

It's technically only semi-dead, as there are still speakers of it out there (less than 2000), but it's not a consecutive line as with Basque.

Manx was/is related to Irish and Scottish Gaelic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_language

i think its because greek isnt dead what with it being the language of greece and all

in my opinion greek is the bestest ancient language. they knew stuff about humanity that we can all learn from. and its accessible enough that it almost always makes sense to the modern reader (well not so much homer, but sophocles rules)

Dead and dead. Claiming that Greek is still in use because the Greeks speak it is like saying that Old English isn't a dead language because people still speak English. Attic and modern Greek are about as close as Latin and Italian.

Latin, but also Ancient Greek.

the irish language IS dead... well, to ME it is... GOD how i hated learning it..

the irish language IS dead... well, to ME it is... GOD how i hated learning it..
nil a fhios agat céard atá á rá agat, is teanga áillin i an ghaeilge.

Sanskrit. Apparently the grammatical structure is beautiful... And just cos I'm Indian. :D

i was about to say that, but since you already did, go sanskrit!

I got a good dead language, Proper English!
( jk, slang is awesome :D )

I went against the popular vote and said Ancient Egyptian.

Well, I did it mainly because it sounds really nice, and it's not spoken nearly as much as Latin is today. In fact, it's barely spoken at all.

its gotta be welsh, or as i like to call it, 'code'

its gotta be welsh, or as i like to call it, 'code'

When what you actually meant is "or as Al Murray likes to call it, code."

Go Sanskrit!

When what you actually meant is "or as Al Murray likes to call it, code."

Yes. *hangs head in shame* just after i reprimanded someone for ripping off Bill Hicks elsewhere as well.

But yes, as Al Murray likes to call it, 'code'.

What are the chances that the FIRST reply after mine was a bloody Al Murray fan :p

Yes. *hangs head in shame* just after i reprimanded someone for ripping off Bill Hicks elsewhere as well.

But yes, as Al Murray likes to call it, 'code'.

What are the chances that the FIRST reply after mine was a bloody Al Murray fan :p

pretty high. I'm on every day, and have the relevant DVD.... muahaha....
Nobody escapes my great justice. Except people who I don't judgify.

Since someone quoted Wikipedia, it's definition of Dead Language:

An extinct language is a language which is no longer natively spoken:

Now its would mean that regardless of it's officiality (is that a word?) a given language could still be alive.

Here are some other definitions I found on linguistlist.org:
a dead language is one which has no remaining native speakers.
A dead language is one that no one speaks natively, i.e., that no one
has learned in childhood and has grown up speaking. Despite the fact
that Latin is the official language of a political entity (Vatican
City), I don't think there are any speakers for whom Latin is a first
language, so we would have to say it's a dead language.
Bridget Copley (blanked)@MIT>EDU
(I included the email addy as it seems this person is part of the ligusitic dept at MIT either as a student or facuality although I suspect the latter)
Fewer than 10% of al the living languages in the world are
official languages of any country, including languages like Navajo and
Haitian Creole and thousands of others that are in active use every day
and are being lerned as native languages by children but do not serve
as official languages.
Probably the best definition of a 'dead' language is one which has no
native speakers or first language users and one that therefore must be
learned not acquired through natural language acquisition. Many languages
l;ack official status in countries where they are spoken. A 'dead'
language may also be maintained as a written medium or certain phrases
memorized and used and even new ones coined. These types of languages are
dead in a technical sense (i.e. noone speaks them fluently as a
first/native language and noone is learning them as first languages as
children) but not in a literal sense as they are still used. But the
definition has to be made somewhere.

Now given those definitions I would have to then claim Klingon as my favorite dead language. It is a complete language and one that is growing. However, by the above definitions it is dead.

Although if even one child learning makes the language "alive" I have to wonder about the couple who tried an experiment with their child. Around the child the father would only speak Klingon and the mother English (this story is from Marc Orkand, creator of the Klingon Language at a panel on the development of his creation) The child defantly understood both languages as he responded correctly to requests in both languages ("Where is your nose?" or "Where is Mommy?") Since the child hadn't started talking yet at the time he spoke, I don't know the results of the experiment. It would be interesting to find out.

Here's a great link dealing with this thread: http://www.evertype.com/langlist.html
And always remember: Lingua mortua sola lingua bona est.

Man. I feel so sorry for that Klingon kid.

nil a fhios agat céard atá á rá agat, is teanga áillin i an ghaeilge.
It's spelled it "álainn" not áillin :D
And í instead of i :mad:

see the thing is...most places you will take or hear latin in "everyday" ife are not pronunciating it correctly...they are using thew italianate pronunciation. In clssical structure of lating, the c are all hard, then never sound like an S...and they never sound like a CH.....the s never sounds like "zee" (or zed for that matter)....you only capitalize proper nouns...word order is basically irrelivant......it is a language based on endings.....i would imagine an italian studnt having troubler with it if he was using the real classic pronunciations...not "church" latin....