NationStates Jolt Archive

You know you're a liberal if...


1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.


2. Sweden has the ideal society.


3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.


4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.


5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.


6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.


7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.


8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.


9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.


10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie

:headbang:

No, that would be you know you're a Dummicrat. Biiiiiiig difference from liberal.

You know you're making gross generalizations and being a general asshat when...

I'm fairly liberal, and I don't agree with any of them.


regurgitating email lists that we've all seen before is fun, huh?

You should not let Marxists read that... :sniper:

we neo-marxists have a bad habbit of being pissy

You know someone doesnt have a sound point, when their only means of trying to make a point is a plagurised cut and paste ad hoc generalisation attack on anyone who doesnt share the world view they probably 'cut and pasted' from their parent's.

Ohh and uhh by the way, on your war analogy are you calling money spent to create bombs and death showers used for the only purpose of killing other humans not as important as wellfare and medicare?

Thought so

You know you're retarded when...

1. You're NS name is Belew.
Did something happen to you today, Gnostikos?
You seem to have a bit of general anger floating around...

... If economics eludes you.

Did something happen to you today, Gnostikos?
You seem to have a bit of general anger floating around...
Meh, I'm just tired. My attitude is extremely amorphous when I'm either sick or tired. Those are when my barriers weaken and whatever pops into my head comes out with less filtration and thought.

From the Bureau of Citing Your Sources:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1046914/posts (you have to scroll a bit)

Ah, FreeRepublic, that glorious forum of tolerance and harmony. I still don't regret invading their region way back when....*hides from MACTO*

You know you're retarded when...

1. You're NS name is Belew.

Kinda funny when the minority gets angry.

You know you're retarded when...

1. You're NS name is Belew.
I've never heard this guy really say anything offensive/defensive.

You must be an asshole, dude.

I've never heard this guy really say anything offensive/defensive.
Neither have I, except for this one thing.

Neither have I, except for this one thing.
Nono, that's what he was saying.
He was saying the other guy must be an asshole if you dropped your perfect record of no offensive comments for him.

Neither have I, except for this one thing.
I'm not condoning your behaviour per se, but I believe you.
I'm sure it was an asshole.

"5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil" repeatedly."


I don't know about all the others, but this one is very true.

4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.


Well, considering the US spends about 80 times as much on the military than it does those things, yes I think it is a bit irrelevant and selfish, especially if you don't personnally know someone who depends on those things, which most right-wing conservatives don't but always say they do.

Nono, that's what he was saying.
He was saying the other guy must be an asshole if you dropped your perfect record of no offensive comments for him.
Exactly.

Lets point one thing out Mr. Belew, all the people who change history, Malcom X, copernicus, Marx, Castro, Davinci, Hobbes, Locke, Plato and Nietzsche were all the minority. Advancement of humanity comes from the renegades not the good upstanding republicans.

-The Avatar

4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.

Because, of course, a war that was unjustified and poorly run is worth the money in the same way as food and medicine is.

You know you're a liberal if...


1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.


2. Sweden has the ideal society.


3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.


4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.


5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.


6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.


7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.


8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.


9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.


10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie



thats one of the most one sided things ive ever seen. i dont agree with any ot those, and im a liberal. you need to get what you say straght before you post stuff like that, thats shit.

Lets point one thing out Mr. Belew, all the people who change history, Malcom X, copernicus, Marx, Castro, Davinci, Hobbes, Locke, Plato and Nietzsche were all the minority.

Half-truth in context.
Yes, these role-models were individuals independant of the status quo.

What you may not accept though, is that they were not victims of the rebel sell.
Enjoy your own (purchased) individuality.

Nono, that's what he was saying.
He was saying the other guy must be an asshole if you dropped your perfect record of no offensive comments for him.
Oooh. That makes me feel a little better about myself. Because that really was uncalled for, and I shouldn't've posted it. I think that it was primarily that I'm tired and I have gotten a lot of flak from people about things similar to this, and I just snapped for a moment. I've been getting more and more frustrated with politics recently, and I would say I was just taking my anger out on him. I apologise, Belew, you are most certainly not retarted or anything like that. You just don't understand the other side at all, which I can sympathise with.

Half-truth in context.
Yes, these role-models were individuals independant of the status quo.

What you may not accept though, is that they were not victims of the rebel sell.
Enjoy your own (purchased) individuality.

try to tell me that Malcom X was not a victim of the rebel sell. (The last time I actually bought something was last sept) I am a real sellout. :)

Oooh. That makes me feel a little better about myself. Because that really was uncalled for, and I shouldn't've posted it. I think that it was primarily that I'm tired and I have gotten a lot of flak from people about things similar to this, and I just snapped for a moment. I've been getting more and more frustrated with politics recently, and I would say I was just taking my anger out on him. I apologise, Belew, you are most certainly not retarted or anything like that. You just don't understand the other side at all, which I can sympathise with.
Gnostikos-- You're so much more liberal than libertarian...
But I respect you because you make me think,
The n0000000b who bothered you has not even caused a neural spark.
Don't get aggravated enough to not be you, just be you please.

"5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil" repeatedly."


I don't know about all the others, but this one is very true.
Right, so that means that I'm not a liberal regardless of any liberal views I have and any lack of non liberal views I have. In fact that would make every admitted liberal I know in real life not a liberal after all. Thanks for sorting that out for us, what would we do if we didnt have you to tell us what we believe...?

Gnostikos-- You're so much more liberal than libertarian...
But I respect you because you make me think,
The n0000000b who bothered you has not even caused a neural spark.
Don't get aggravated enough to not be you, just be you please.
Well, I remember that when I was sick at school one day, someone there said to me "Why are you acting so rude today? This isn't like you at all!" This must be a similar situation. But also, sorry if I'm missing something obvious, how was I being libertarian?

You know you're a liberal if...


Someone wants a major flame war... Great thing about NS, all people of all cultures and political persuasions come together to flame each other. :D

1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.

Yes Mr Hussein was indeed an evil bastard, but I still think the US's proirities are a little out of whack when you focus on a dictator, in a far off country, when you've got a bunch of fundamentalist lunatics running loose. Catch Osama Bin Laden before you do your charity good will. Bush didn't consider the colleteral damage as a result of the intereferance and 15365 (minimum) innocent people later, you get the idea.

2. Sweden has the ideal society.


I wouldn't know, I haven't been to Sweden.

3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.


No, Reagan shouldn't have been re-elected because of the horrible state of Alzheimers he was in.

4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.


Exactly how much does the US spend on war? Pretty sure it's at least a 10 figure number. And you could actually give the rest of the world a drink of clean water instead of killing people in a far off country.

5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.


Some people do, I've done it at least once concerning Prime Minister John Howard. I'm sure you people do something very similar when the words "Michael Moore" are said.

6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.


Sorry I have no idea who she is...

7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.


Sorry I can't quite grasp what's wrong with that statement.

8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.

Oh I can grasp why communism doesn't work. Mass corruption. However I can't see what's wrong with the idea at it's purest ideal: "From each according to his, to each according to his need".

9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.


I've been in public schooling all of my education years and I'm still a tree-hugging, lefty, pinko, socialist hippy. What you would call me anyway.

10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie

Depends entirely in what context it is used. If it's a Hemmingway-esque sort of movie trying to romanticise war, then no. If it's about the senseless killing and pointless violence about war and why it's such an insane place, then yes.

Sorry but I can't see the point of this thread whatsoever

But also, sorry if I'm missing something obvious, how was I being libertarian?
I may have been mistaking you for being slightly more libertarian because our ideologies cross (drugs, prejudices... ummmm, liberty).

Lets point one thing out Mr. Belew, all the people who change history, Malcom X, copernicus, Marx, Castro, Davinci, Hobbes, Locke, Plato and Nietzsche were all the minority. Advancement of humanity comes from the renegades not the good upstanding republicans.

-The Avatar


You might be a liberal if.....

"You think Marx and Castro are leaders in the Advancement of humanity".


I was refering to the "minority" as in the liberal people of the US, which, didnt do much this past Nov. 2. Which makes them a minority.

Funny stuff.

I may have been mistaking you for being slightly more libertarian because our ideologies cross (drugs, prejudices... ummmm, liberty).
Ahh, ok. I am an extreme social libertarian, that is correct. Economically, I am fairly authoritarian, though I haven't learned enough economics yet to be firm on that. But environmentally I'm an extreme authoritarian, though that could be interpreted as indirectly libertarian in some eyes. I understand your comment now, however. I thought you were saying I was being libertarian when I should have been being liberal, which I didn't get at all. I guess I'm somewhere in between--sometimes a strictly biaxial classification system doesn't work.

Because, of course, a war that was unjustified and poorly run is worth the money in the same way as food and medicine is.

Of course it is. Don't you know war benifits people just as much. :sarcasm:

Mr. Belew,

Like it or not societal advancements don't always have a posetive means. Castro changed the world, though his means were evil the end result was ultimately good (not what castro had in mind). Karl Marx he was just a misinterpreted misused and abused genius, furthermore you can't argue against that statement because I doubt you've ever even read the Communist Manifesto. Face it they advanced society their means were poor but the outcome enlightened the world. Adolf hitler was the first to build mass extermination camps, evil means, opened the worlds eyes and eventually led to better understanding. Just because they're bad people doesn't mean the overall outcome was bad. AND WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU ARGUE AGAINST MALCOM X!!!!

-The Avatar

Ahh, ok. I am an extreme social libertarian, that is correct. Economically, I am fairly authoritarian, though I haven't learned enough economics yet to be firm on that. But environmentally I'm an extreme authoritarian, though that could be interpreted as indirectly libertarian in some eyes.
Cool. Just sticking up for you because you've saved me a lot of typing in the past when you've posted on subjects I agree.
I understand your comment now, however. I thought you were saying I was being libertarian when I should have been being liberal, which I didn't get at all. I guess I'm somewhere in between--sometimes a strictly biaxial classification system doesn't work.
I have no idea wtf you're talking about.
But then, I'm high.

ohh and for anyone concerned in this, Liberal for me is far to forgiving a term. I'm a member of the American Communist Party. In case anyone cares

I have no idea wtf you're talking about.
But then, I'm high.
Hmm.
Funny, I can't understandanything anybody is talknig about, and I'm perfectly sober.
:D

Mr. Belew,

Like it or not societal advancements don't always have a posetive means. Castro changed the world, though his means were evil the end result was ultimately good (not what castro had in mind). Karl Marx he was just a misinterpreted misused and abused genius, furthermore you can't argue against that statement because I doubt you've ever even read the Communist Manifesto. Face it they advanced society their means were poor but the outcome enlightened the world. Adolf hitler was the first to build mass extermination camps, evil means, opened the worlds eyes and eventually led to better understanding. Just because they're bad people doesn't mean the overall outcome was bad. AND WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU ARGUE AGAINST MALCOM X!!!!

-The Avatar

Both of you:

Comparing Marx to Castro (sic) is like comparing gold to shit.

Cool. Just sticking up for you because you've saved me a lot of typing in the past when you've posted on subjects I agree.
Why thank you. :)

I have no idea wtf you're talking about.
But then, I'm high.
It was in reference to the comment you made about me being liberal or libertarian or some such thing. And the latter part was saying that I'm kind of hard to classify when strictly liberal or libertarian (or conservative or authoritarian, for that matter).

Why thank you. :)


It was in reference to the comment you made about me being liberal or libertarian or some such thing. And the latter part was saying that I'm kind of hard to classify when strictly liberal or libertarian (or conservative or authoritarian, for that matter).
Gnostikos, I can't palce you in a poli-sci way to satisfaction.
You're classification isn't wikka-encylopoedical.
:p

You think Barbara Boxer is hot!

You run out of clean underwear and all there is for you to put on is a pair of your wife's pink panties with a tiny red heart on one cheek, and it doesn't bother you at all.

You think anyone who calls themselves "Christian," but is anything other than a nominal Episcipalian who only attends services on religious holidays is a "fundamentalist."

Eichen,

Did you even care to read my statement about marx? I agree with you and I am willing to die for it I agree with you so strongly and Mr. Belew was the first one to make the comparison so lets you and me seeing as we are on the same side about Marx and castro not worry about arguing with eachother and lets fight the real enemy of ignorance together. (P.S. I know you've obviously read the communist manifesto because of your ready defence of marx but have you ever read thomas hobbes leviathan? you'de probably like it)

-The Avatar

Someone wants a major flame war... Great thing about NS, all people of all cultures and political persuasions come together to flame each other. :D

No, wasnt looking for a flame war, just having some fun with it, wasnt meaning to piss anyone off, just get some laughs out of the right wingers, like myself.


Yes Mr Hussein was indeed an evil bastard, but I still think the US's proirities are a little out of whack when you focus on a dictator, in a far off country, when you've got a bunch of fundamentalist lunatics running loose. Catch Osama Bin Laden before you do your charity good will. Bush didn't consider the colleteral damage as a result of the intereferance and 15365 (minimum) innocent people later, you get the idea.


Civil War killed 600,000 americans
WWI killed 9 million people
WWII killed 50 million

The question isnt did anyone die, the question is did these wars make a positive difference.

After the CivilWar, slavery be eliminated. 4 million slaves became free citizens.

Are europe and asia better off today with the defeat of Nazism, Fascism, and Japanese Imperialism?

Sometimes you need to make war to have peace.



No, Reagan shouldn't have been re-elected because of the horrible state of Alzheimers he was in.


Ronald Reagan lead the fall of the Berlin Wall. He is the sole reason that the USSR is not longer in power. He strengthened our defense back to the pre-jimmy carter days.



Exactly how much does the US spend on war? Pretty sure it's at least a 10 figure number. And you could actually give the rest of the world a drink of clean water instead of killing people in a far off country.


Freedom isnt cheap.


Sorry I can't quite grasp what's wrong with that statement.


This proves the point of the thread.



Oh I can grasp why communism doesn't work. Mass corruption. However I can't see what's wrong with the idea at it's purest ideal: "From each according to his, to each according to his need".



Ideal and Reality are two different things. We've already had that experiment.



I'm still a tree-hugging, lefty, pinko, socialist hippy.


Enough Said




Depends entirely in what context it is used. If it's a Hemmingway-esque sort of movie trying to romanticise war, then no. If it's about the senseless killing and pointless violence about war and why it's such an insane place, then yes.



Hrrm....so Mulan doesnt bother you?

*cough* flamebait *cough*

Looks like we found a new Snubis.

*cough* flamebait *cough*

Hey! Another one:

You know you're a liberal if every post to the Forums to which you belong that doesn't agree with your position is either "flamebait" or "trolling." :D

Hrrm....so Mulan doesnt bother you?
I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that liberals are bothered by violence on television. Those seem to really be the conservatives who want censorship. I myself believe that censorship of any type of media is fundamentally wrong. Take Howard Stern, for example. Though I hate his show and think it is a negative influence, I also believe that it's far worse for him to be taken off. Typically liberals are the ones who support the ACLU, and they are the ones that oppose things like censorship. Hell, I'd fall into the category you're criticising in some respects, and my two favourite periods in history are Sengoku Jidai and the Bakumatsu in Japan, some of the bloodiest and most violent times in the history of humanity.

that was the one of the dumbest things i've ever seen posted. i admit it, i'm a left wing person, so i guess i'm "supposed" to be offended, but seriously. i have respect for many conservative people. you however are not one of them. the ones i do have respect for actually can explain why they believe what they believe on SOME level. the ones i do not respect, like yourself, prefer to post generalizations about a particular group of people because you disagree with them. granted, many people who share common beliefs with myself also do this, about conservatives, but i also have little respect for them. why don't you grow up, and try to at least engage in intelligent debate, instead of making yourself look like a fool.

ohh and for anyone concerned in this, Liberal for me is far to forgiving a term. I'm a member of the American Communist Party. In case anyone cares
Never would have guessed . . . :rolleyes:

Mr. Belew

If by helped america regain power you mean funded both sides of a war at the same time, gave 3 billion dollars to osama bin laden, was the first president to start defecit spending and gave Saddam the weapons and knowledge to kill his own people then yes, regan was a magnificent president!!

AND GOD BLESS AMERICA

(religion is the opiate of the masses)

You think Barbara Boxer is hot!

You run out of clean underwear and all there is for you to put on is a pair of your wife's pink panties with a tiny red heart on one cheek, and it doesn't bother you at all.

You think anyone who calls themselves "Christian," but is anything other than a nominal Episcipalian who only attends services on religious holidays is a "fundamentalist."
Very good!!! :D

(religion is the opiate of the masses)
No, heroin is the opiate of the masses.
:p

:worried: about all of you

No, heroin is the opiate of the masses.
:p
After morphine, of course.

Hey! Another one:

You know you're a liberal if every post to the Forums to which you belong that doesn't agree with your position is either "flamebait" or "trolling." :D
Except this stuff was. Very thinly and poorly vieled.

After morphine, of course.
Oxycodone's growing in popularity...
"Hillbilly Heroin", as it seems to be en vogue to call it.

Hey! Another one:

You know you're a liberal if every post to the Forums to which you belong that doesn't agree with your position is either "flamebait" or "trolling." :D

Amusingly enough, almost every post that disagrees with 'conservatives' and/or 'Christians' is instantly labelled as Christianophobia.

Neo-Anarchist you just made my day

Except this stuff was. Very thinly and poorly vieled.

The prosecution rests, Your Honor! :D

Oxycodone's growing in popularity...
I've heard of that, but don't know its potency compared to other opioids. Do you?

Mr. Belew

If by helped america regain power you mean funded both sides of a war at the same time
Huh? What war? Afghanistan? Don't tell me we were giving money to the USSR and the mudjaheddin?

gave 3 billion dollars to osama bin laden
Source, please?

was the first president to start defecit spending
The first? US has been in deficits for most of the 20th century!

and gave Saddam the weapons and knowledge to kill his own people
I don't think we sold him the chemical weapons that Chemical Ali used on the Kurds.

Amusingly enough, almost every post that disagrees with 'conservatives' and/or 'Christians' is instantly labelled as Christianophobia.

Um ... the thread is about liberals. Start one about conservatives and I'll contribute my own unique brand of offbeat humor to it as well! :D

4 million slaves became free citizens.
Proudest moment of any moral American. As the product of immigrants, this is the single most inspirational moment for civil liberty I know of.

Ronald Reagan lead the fall of the Berlin Wall. He is the sole reason that the USSR is not longer in power. He strengthened our defense back to the pre-jimmy carter days.
Totally. Reagan's dominization is the product of the aforementioned rebel sell. As a punk (although a 28 yr. old one), I see this as a fact, and uncontestable with Googlable evidence by any 'tard.[/quote]

Freedom isnt cheap.
Or free.



This proves the point of the thread.
Not complimenting to get so cocky. You haven't proven anything, but I'm not of sway to deny that you're right.



Ideal and Reality are two different things. We've already had that experiment.
One facillitates the other.




Enough Said




Hrrm....so Mulan doesnt bother you?

99. For you liberal commies out there, you frequently use Bush and Hitler interchangeably, while Stalin and Castro are saints.

No, wasnt looking for a flame war, just having some fun with it, wasnt meaning to piss anyone off, just get some laughs out of the right wingers, like myself.

Kinda like me saying, "All conservatives are bigoted!". Then I can get a good laugh from fellow libertarians and expect no consequences. (Btw I don't think all conservatives are bigoted)

Civil War killed 600,000 americans
WWI killed 9 million people
WWII killed 50 million


I have no doubt in my mind that many soldiers died in those wars. However there is always innocent bystanders killed in wars. And don't get me started on the WWII Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuclear attacks. That was just plain cowardly.

The question isnt did anyone die, the question is did these wars make a positive difference.

After the CivilWar, slavery be eliminated. 4 million slaves became free citizens.

Yes and went off to live in poverty, be segregated and prejudiced against until the 1960s someone did something about it.

Are europe and asia better off today with the defeat of Nazism, Fascism, and Japanese Imperialism?


True, but it didn't put a stop to British Imperialism and not to mention the trend of the Republican party.

Sometimes you need to make war to have peace.


And usually cause more problems in the process.

Ronald Reagan lead the fall of the Berlin Wall. He is the sole reason that the USSR is not longer in power. He strengthened our defense back to the pre-jimmy carter days.

If that's what you believe, then believe it. Just don't expect everyone else to.


Freedom isnt cheap.


Freedom from what? Imaginary WMDs?

This proves the point of the thread.


Sorry didn't know it was bad to not want war.

Ideal and Reality are two different things. We've already had that experiment.

Doesn't hurt to try and live up to an ideal. Might be nice to treat people as equals once in a while rather than look down on them because of their race, colour or creed. I know plenty of conservatives that live up to that basic notion.

Enough Said


I'm not going to deny it. I just don't see why you guys think it's a bad thing

Hrrm....so Mulan doesnt bother you?
Seeing as most civil wars in China's history were completely senseless, not to mention that Mulan was based on a fictional tale. Doesn't mean China doesn't have a lesser culture because of their violent history. What about America's, Germany's, Britian's and Norway's violent history? At least a lot of them can look back and realise how senseless it really was.

Huh? What war? Afghanistan? Don't tell me we were giving money to the USSR and the mudjaheddin?
America never, I repeat, [b[never[/b] gave money to the U.S.S.R. We gave money to Osama bin Laden to fight off the Soviet Union because we were paranoid about communism. Do you remember the Red Scare at all?

I don't think we sold him the chemical weapons that Chemical Ali used on the Kurds.
Probably not the same ones, but we really did train his men how to torture. It is terrible what the U.S. has done sometimes, and most people don't even realise it.

You know you're a liberal if...


You can talk and think at the same time.

in reference to, funding both sides of war,

in 1984 ron regan sold weapons to both Iran and Iraq who were at set engagaed in war against eachother,

3 billion bucks to "help them fight the soviets" people's history of the U.S.A.

in response to defacit, excluding the great depression (also caused by a republican) america was not in debt until the regan administration.

Your move

99. For you liberal commies out there, you frequently use Bush and Hitler interchangeably, while Stalin and Castro are saints.

What in the world are you talking about? I share communist ideals and I can still see that Stalin was a sociopathic homicidal lunatic. Bush doesn't go hand in hand with Hitler either. People just illustrating their point on how much they don't like the man.

FROM THE MOUTH OF THE SERPENT ITSELF!!!!

Stalin and castro were betrayers of the way in this commies eyes

Civil War killed 600,000 americans
WWI killed 9 million people
WWII killed 50 million

The question isnt did anyone die, the question is did these wars make a positive difference.

After the CivilWar, slavery be eliminated. 4 million slaves became free citizens.

Are europe and asia better off today with the defeat of Nazism, Fascism, and Japanese Imperialism?

Sometimes you need to make war to have peace.



Better off only compared to their situations during their respective wars. Most of Europe prior to WWII was stable socially and economically. Remember, part of the reason the German people admired Hitler then was because his war provided them with an end to their severe financial drought. And under the occupation, that country's economy continued to grow. This, as far as I know, was WWII's only benefit to Europe.

For the Asian theater, no one came out of it better than than they were going in. Certainly, Japan was attempting to control the "Asian Circle", and its importance as a trade nation become a wound to Asia's economy when it was defeated. But then, Japan itself suffered a lack of resources before the Pacific war. So it can be believed that they wouldn't have recovered if not for the imports that flowed to American occupation forces.

Even so, with all the pains of those wars you mentioned, I believe there was something worthwhile brought to the world's consciousness. I don't see any such learning to come from the Iraqi war, unless knowing the untrustworthiness of our President is knowledge to be appreciated.

America never, I repeat, [b[never[/b] gave money to the U.S.S.R. We gave money to Osama bin Laden to fight off the Soviet Union because we were paranoid about communism. Do you remember the Red Scare at all?


Probably not the same ones, but we really did train his men how to torture. It is terrible what the U.S. has done sometimes, and most people don't even realise it.
I know we never gave money to the USSR, I was rebutting his point that Reagan was funding both sides of some war that he did not bother to define.

I've heard of that, but don't know its potency compared to other opioids. Do you?
I had heard that it was right smack in the middle of the opiod spectrum in terms of potency and duration, but I don't have the book about opiates that I checked out a while ago anymore.
The bits I can find on Erowid seem to point that way. Actually, this page (http://codeine.50g.com/info/oxycodone.html) says it's of equal strength to morphine, so I am now officially confused.

FROM THE MOUTH OF THE SERPENT ITSELF!!!!

Stalin and castro were betrayers of the way in this commies eyes
And dismissed by the purist communists as not true communism, but "Stalinism". Yet these were the first(?) tries at this new form of economics, and they failed miserably. Everywhere communism has been tried, it has failed. I tend to go with things that have a proven track record, like capitalism and democracy.

Um ... the thread is about liberals. Start one about conservatives and I'll contribute my own unique brand of offbeat humor to it as well! :D

Well, actually the thread is about some guy's twisted view of what he believes to be liberals, but hey, ce'st la vi.

I know we never gave money to the USSR, I was rebutting his point that Reagan was funding both sides of some war that he did not bother to define.
Oh, ok. Sorry, my bad.

Take Howard Stern, for example. Though I hate his show and think it is a negative influence, I also believe that it's far worse for him to be taken off.
Hate to admit it, but Howard Stern Is a... (http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/howard-stern.html)
Typically liberals are the ones who support the ACLU, and they are the ones that oppose things like censorship.
Don't know where the so-called Liberals would be without some help (ACLU isn't really Liberal).

IRAQ INVADED IRAN IN THE 80's AMERICA SOLD WEAPONS TO BOTH SIDES!!! THERE'S YOUR DEFENITION

its not rocket science

I've never really posted on here, but topics like this annoy me to no end on all the boards I belong to. They are designed to piss the opposite side off, resulting in the slinging of insults back and forth until the topic is finally closed or deleted or whatever.

Look, I don't care what you are. Just be considerate of others. That list from the beginning could be turned to fit any group of people.


Do you think that this will ever get resolved? I thought not.

Continue. Its quite amusing, really.

The prosecution rests, Your Honor! :D
rest....mmmmmmm
*takes a nap*:D

Freedom isnt cheap.
Freedom from being scared of your own shadow does cost a lot, doesn't it?

Speaking of which, in a certain Republican's recent corona-I mean innauguration speech, the words "free" and "freedom" were used more than 20 times, but security was so tight in freedom-land, that many people, republican supporters or nay, were not allowed access to their pre-booked seats.

And for the record communism has never accurately been tried, its always been backed by ruthless dictators. and if the new economic system is so awful how come 6 out of the 7 of the most idustrialized nations on the planet are socialist and the only other pure capitalists (like the U.S.) are third world nations?

Ummm, the President wasn't responsible for the Great Depression. Granted Hoover's ideal of people just "lifting themselves out of it" was more than a little naive.

I find myself a little offended by this post. I think it's possible to have civilised debate between the two spectrums of politics without resorting to idiotic generalisations and blatant name-calling. That applies to both liberals and conservatives.

in reference to, funding both sides of war,

in 1984 ron regan sold weapons to both Iran and Iraq who were at set engagaed in war against eachother,

3 billion bucks to "help them fight the soviets" people's history of the U.S.A.

in response to defacit, excluding the great depression (also caused by a republican) america was not in debt until the regan administration.

Your move
I didn't realize that moneys had been traced to Reagan's personal bank account showing receipts of arms sales to Iran and Iraq.

3 billion dollars well spent, contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Yes, America was in debt, even outside of the Great Depression.

USA Historical Deficit (http://traxel.com/deficit/)

Don't know where the so-called Liberals would be without some help (ACLU isn't really Liberal).
Meh, if you have to use the uniaxial system that most people understand, they are left-wing. But you're right, they really aren't liberal.

FROM THE MOUTH OF THE SERPENT ITSELF!!!!

Stalin and castro were betrayers of the way in this commies eyes
I suggest Valium at this point.

And for the record communism has never accurately been tried, its always been backed by ruthless dictators. and if the new economic system is so awful how come 6 out of the 7 of the most idustrialized nations on the planet are socialist and the only other pure capitalists (like the U.S.) are third world nations?
US is not a third world nation - central bank administrators hold over 80% of their holdings in US dollars (NPR story the other day), though they are reducing that proportion.

Socialism is modified capitalism, not modified communism.

Communism was accurately tried, and failed miserably, merely relabeled as Stalinism by communists not comfortable with the facts.

Too many things to reply to....*head explodes*

I disagree with all of the points this guy made, but especially the one about war.

WAR! KILLING PEOPLE. LIVES. ENDED.

I can't possibly see how this is not a bad thing. I guess my fancy private education failed me on that one.

Socialism is modified capitalism, not modified communism.
And by "modified" you mean "inverted", right? Since socialism is pretty much the polar opposite of capitalism, though not quite as different as communism is compared to capitalism.

I can't possibly see how this is not a bad thing. I guess my fancy private education failed me on that one.
Or a fancy private education is failing some shrub somewhere....

(I admit I am being extreme tonight, just a little PO'd, I'll cool off)

How fucking ignorant, cynical, and far right-wing of you. You make Republicans and conservatives sound like sane, caring individuals, while those who have half an ounce of sanity are some offshoot of deranged hippies.

IRAQ INVADED IRAN IN THE 80's AMERICA SOLD WEAPONS TO BOTH SIDES!!! THERE'S YOUR DEFENITION

its not rocket science
I'm just being nitpicky, you said Reagan, not America, sold to both sides, and originally did not state which war. Which was in our political interests at the time, considerin Iran had just held many of our citizens hostage.

I've never really posted on here, but topics like this annoy me to no end on all the boards I belong to. They are designed to piss the opposite side off, resulting in the slinging of insults back and forth until the topic is finally closed or deleted or whatever.

Look, I don't care what you are. Just be considerate of others. That list from the beginning could be turned to fit any group of people.


Do you think that this will ever get resolved? I thought not.

Continue. Its quite amusing, really.
I'm pretty much one of those nice, civil posters you''ve nentioned, but,

































Shut the fuck up.




























please.

Hey! What's wrong with Sweden? And I agree with the others, how can war be right? :confused:

ok to every one I will only explain this once,

many of you carry yourselves like america is so good and safe and clean, let me be the first to POP that bubble of yours we live in a dirtbag nation controlled by corporate pigheads. Its just like plato's allegory of the cave. You are all blinded by a flag that spreads death showers to the world. 4,000 hungry children die every hour of starvation and bush asks for 80 billion MORE dollars to keep up his crusade. Blinded by a flag lead to beleive that you are living in the greatest utopia. True the american government doesn't kill its own citizens becuase they speak out (with the exception of malcom x) but they have robbed each and every one of you with the most basic of freedoms, thought. Since your birth you have been conditioned to live here oblivious to the world around you, you live in a dream like state where you are being controlled by corporations who only want money to do what they tell you. To quote morpheus in the matrix "many are so hopelessly dependant on the system that they will fight to protect it" Thats what your doing now, welcome to america land of hippocracy, where people can be arrested and put and skip our constitutional right of a fairl trial under the PATRIOT act just so we can feel safe. You know what america needs a stiff drink and a blow job. to those of you who call me a raving lunatic thank you for proving my point for those who agree you are enlightened spread it to the world. :mp5:

And by "modified" you mean "inverted", right? Since socialism is pretty much the polar opposite of capitalism, though not quite as different as communism is compared to capitalism.
Well, I'm not sure what the poli-sci definition of socialism is, but, as I understand it, it is simply a capitalistic economy that has nationalized industries deemed essential to basic human rights, like health care. Free enterprise is still in place in all other industries. Communism has absolutely no private ownership and no free enterprise.

And by "modified" you mean "inverted", right? Since socialism is pretty much the polar opposite of capitalism, though not quite as different as communism is compared to capitalism.
Everything everybody says in this thread sounds hilariously funny to me.
Which is odd, since I'm not taking drugs.
Hee, now I'm imagining everybody in a room trying to debate. Gnostikos is the one that's tearing his hair out since nobody can understand him, Branin is just sort of standing there in the middle of the room looking out of place...
Eichen is the one that's trying to keep people from killing each other by making random snarky comments now and then. DoobeySnickelPoo is a guy that just walked in and started debating.

And I'm the one that wandered in ten minutes late with a massive smile across my face who keeps on spacing out or walking around in random directions. Everybody keeps asking me if I'm on something, but I keep saying "Ohhhh, nnnooooo...." and then trying to hug them.

Meh, if you have to use the uniaxial system that most people understand, they are left-wing. But you're right, they really aren't liberal.

I'd totally agree, based on their politics, they're left wing.

But please stop using the word "uniaxial".

ok to every one I will only explain this once,

many of you carry yourselves like america is so good and safe and clean, let me be the first to POP that bubble of yours we live in a dirtbag nation controlled by corporate pigheads. Its just like plato's allegory of the cave. You are all blinded by a flag that spreads death showers to the world. 4,000 hungry children die every hour of starvation and bush asks for 80 billion MORE dollars to keep up his crusade. Blinded by a flag lead to beleive that you are living in the greatest utopia. True the american government doesn't kill its own citizens becuase they speak out (with the exception of malcom x) but they have robbed each and every one of you with the most basic of freedoms, thought. Since your birth you have been conditioned to live here oblivious to the world around you, you live in a dream like state where you are being controlled by corporations who only want money to do what they tell you. To quote morpheus in the matrix "many are so hopelessly dependant on the system that they will fight to protect it" Thats what your doing now, welcome to america land of hippocracy, where people can be arrested and put and skip our constitutional right of a fairl trial under the PATRIOT act just so we can feel safe. You know what america needs a stiff drink and a blow job. to those of you who call me a raving lunatic thank you for proving my point for those who agree you are enlightened spread it to the world. :mp5:

All I can say is right on brother! Or sister! Incidentally I take it you're a System Of A Down fan?

8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.

Well, they killed some hundred million people...
Sweden never had really extreme communists in charge. When we had extreme commie parties in the 60's, s group of them went to Soviet to see how wonderful everything was in communist paradise. They were arrested and held prisoners for ten years. So even if I might be liberal, I can still think communism is the biggest murderer this century.

Well, I'm not sure what the poli-sci definition of socialism is, but, as I understand it, it is simply a capitalistic economy that has nationalized industries deemed essential to basic human rights, like health care. Free enterprise is still in place in all other industries. Communism has absolutely no private ownership and no free enterprise.
That's not what real socialism is. Socialism is actually just a milder form of communism. What you mentioned is essentially fascism.

Hey! What's wrong with Sweden?

Only time I'll ever post this, so get it now:

The Netherlands make me reconsider pure capitalism. An enigma that keeps me up at night, in a pleasant, skunky-scented way.

ok to every one I will only explain this once,

many of you carry yourselves like america is so good and safe and clean, let me be the first to POP that bubble of yours we live in a dirtbag nation controlled by corporate pigheads. Its just like plato's allegory of the cave. You are all blinded by a flag that spreads death showers to the world. 4,000 hungry children die every hour of starvation and bush asks for 80 billion MORE dollars to keep up his crusade. Blinded by a flag lead to beleive that you are living in the greatest utopia. True the american government doesn't kill its own citizens becuase they speak out (with the exception of malcom x) but they have robbed each and every one of you with the most basic of freedoms, thought. Since your birth you have been conditioned to live here oblivious to the world around you, you live in a dream like state where you are being controlled by corporations who only want money to do what they tell you. To quote morpheus in the matrix "many are so hopelessly dependant on the system that they will fight to protect it" Thats what your doing now, welcome to america land of hippocracy, where people can be arrested and put and skip our constitutional right of a fairl trial under the PATRIOT act just so we can feel safe. You know what america needs a stiff drink and a blow job. to those of you who call me a raving lunatic thank you for proving my point for those who agree you are enlightened spread it to the world. :mp5:
Yes, I have notified the secret police, they will be arriving shortly, do not attempt to flee ... Because here in America, there is no freedom of thought, speech, etc. That's why Michael Moore was recently hanged, and Hollywood was recently made a city-sized prison, ala Escape from New York. That's why a poor black woman raised in the same neighborhood where a black church was bombed is now about to be confirmed Secretary of State.

But please stop using the word "uniaxial".
Well first of all, I typically say "biaxial". And what's wrong with it, exactly? Is it overly pretentious?

Isn't it about time for someone to post a "you know you're conservative when..." thread. I looked for good stuff and didn't find any, and I'm not funny ebough to write my own.

Isn't it about time for someone to post a "you know you're conservative when..." thread. I looked for good stugg and didn't find any, and I'm not funny ebough to write my own.
What is this "good stugg" of which you speak?
Can I smoke it?
:D

pretentious?
Exactly. But I do it too I've been told...

What is this "good stugg" of which you speak?
Can I smoke it?
:D
Sorry, missed the f key, but yes you may have some.

a few things:

1 - ARGH! NO MORE MACHINE GUN SMILIES PLEASE!!!! that shit is worse than caps lock.

2 - Why Oh Why do you bother to respond to the silly right-winger with the ctrl c ctrl v original unoriginal posting? Leave him to his mindless right-wing smug masturbation. It's not worth it.

3 - I think that people who are across the board anti-war are rather silly. Sometimes it's necessary. SOMETIMES, but not always. Like someone said earlier - there have been wars that have been needed. Wars that had positive outcomes. This current war that your silly president is waging, on the other hand? Not necessary. Show me the positive outcomes? I don't see them.

4 - Oh, and those doubleyou emm dee's that America couldn't find? They're out on my fire escape. In Toronto. Clearly. But really, I'm still shocked that America didn't just go ahead and plant some in order to save face...

Isn't it about time for someone to post a "you know you're conservative when..." thread.

You've only become Libertarian becuase you've been busted.

No I'm not a system of a down fan, they are consumeristic cock suckers along with pretty much every other national music group. And I did come in here and start debating and I just have to ask this does anyone here honestly know what is actually happening here? The thing I know is I say a few pro-marxist things and pissant America All The Way is on my back (GET A FUCKING LIFE DUDE!!!) IF YOU TRULY LOVE THIS NATION AS YOU PROFESS TO AGREE TO DISAGREE WITH ME!!!!! LOOK AT YOUR OWN GODDAMN 1st AMMENDMENT, FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!! NOW VALUE THAT!! I have no problem with people who just agree to disagree I support opposing view points (by the way this is a forum so... we are allowed to express views) now attacking another view to the point of bittered defence (aka my monologue bit up there) is wrong now I have declared the guy thats trying to make sure we don't kill eachother as someone I agree with. Now start to actually love your nation and respect opposing view points.

That's not what real socialism is. Socialism is actually just a milder form of communism. What you mentioned is essentially fascism.
After reading the dictionary definition, it seems you are correct. Number 3 hits the nail on the head (Merriam Webster Online Dictionary):

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

a few things:
1 - ARGH! NO MORE MACHINE GUN SMILIES PLEASE!!!! that shit is worse than caps lock.

Brandera's Point #1. :mp5: :sniper: :mp5: (sorry Brandera, it was just to tempting :fluffle: )

Or we could just all gunge stuff Gundge-> :gundge: :gundge: :gundge: :gundge:

Only time I'll ever post this, so get it now:

The Netherlands make me reconsider pure capitalism. An enigma that keeps me up at night, in a pleasant, skunky-scented way.
Wait...Sweden and the Netherlands aren't the same nation, are they? That's not right... And what do you mean by it making you reconsider pure capitalism? I really haven't learned much on foreign governments yet, so I'd like to know what it is about them that's unique.

Overall I am probably more liberal then conservitive, but that said both sides are being highly entertaining, I was going to flame Belew, but then I realized that if I flamed him, I should probably flame everyone else to. So I'm just going to point and laugh at all the extremists.

Overall I am probably more liberal then conservitive, but that said both sides are being highly entertaining, I was going to flame Belew, but then I realized that if I flamed him, I should probably flame everyone else to.
Better yet, don't flame anybody cause it's against forum rules.
;)

And selgin for the reference I respect your viewpoint as a legitimate one I merely ask that you return the favor. (and in the matrix there were people liberated from the system weren't there) just because your in doesn't mean you can't get out, read 1984 and farenheit 451 great books

Exactly. But I do it too I've been told...
Ahh, ok. I have gotten that partially under control recently, but sometimes I revert to using the lexicon closer to when I was an ostricised geek.

No I'm not a system of a down fan, they are consumeristic cock suckers along with pretty much every other national music group. And I did come in here and start debating and I just have to ask this does anyone here honestly know what is actually happening here? The thing I know is I say a few pro-marxist things and pissant America All The Way is on my back (GET A FUCKING LIFE DUDE!!!) IF YOU TRULY LOVE THIS NATION AS YOU PROFESS TO AGREE TO DISAGREE WITH ME!!!!! LOOK AT YOUR OWN GODDAMN 1st AMMENDMENT, FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!! NOW VALUE THAT!! I have no problem with people who just agree to disagree I support opposing view points (by the way this is a forum so... we are allowed to express views) now attacking another view to the point of bittered defence (aka my monologue bit up there) is wrong now I have declared the guy thats trying to make sure we don't kill eachother as someone I agree with. Now start to actually love your nation and respect opposing view points.

dam, relax man....here's some advice, go relieve some sexual tension and then come back and have a civil debate

Didn't I just say that I respected opposing view points, didn't I just say that I can agree to disagree with my right wing friend here. the only people that aren't running a civil debate here are people who refuse to acknowledge a hand of peace when it comes (aka You)

No I'm not a system of a down fan, they are consumeristic cock suckers along with pretty much every other national music group. And I did come in here and start debating and I just have to ask this does anyone here honestly know what is actually happening here? The thing I know is I say a few pro-marxist things and pissant America All The Way is on my back (GET A FUCKING LIFE DUDE!!!) IF YOU TRULY LOVE THIS NATION AS YOU PROFESS TO AGREE TO DISAGREE WITH ME!!!!! LOOK AT YOUR OWN GODDAMN 1st AMMENDMENT, FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!! NOW VALUE THAT!! I have no problem with people who just agree to disagree I support opposing view points (by the way this is a forum so... we are allowed to express views) now attacking another view to the point of bittered defence (aka my monologue bit up there) is wrong now I have declared the guy thats trying to make sure we don't kill eachother as someone I agree with. Now start to actually love your nation and respect opposing view points.

.................................................................................................... ............................................. As far left as I am I still think you need to calm down......... I thought System opposed America's foriegn policy and even it's home-based policies at the moment.............. Must have gotten confused with lyrics like:

Modern globalization,
Coupled with condemnations,
Unnecessary death,
Matador corporations,
Puppeting your frustrations,
With the blinded flag,
Manufacturing consent
Is the name of the game,
The bottom line is money,
Nobody gives a fuck.
4000 hungry children die per hour,
From starvation,
While billions spent on bombs,
Create death showers.

Or even these lyrics:

Beyond the staples center you can see america
With it’s tired poor avenging disgrace
Peaceful loving youth against the brutality
Of plastic existence
Pushing little children
With their fully automatics
They like to push the weak around

Or perhaps this was the song that confused me:

(nearly 2 million americans are
Incarcerated in the prison system
Prison system of the us)
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
They’re trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
(for you and me to live in)
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
You don’t even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars
Against the new non-rich

You know you're a liberal if...


1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.


2. Sweden has the ideal society.


3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.


4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.


5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.


6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.


7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.


8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.


9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.


10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie


1. The major justification for the war (Hussein being an "imminent threat to the US") was bullshit. Therefore, the war is wrong. Now they have fallen back on secondary and tertiary reasons, such as Hussein being a horrible dictator, when really, he was small-fry compared to the corrupt governments in China and North Korea.

2. The fact that it has the highest standard of living in the world leads me to think so, yes.

3. Martin Sheen is an actor. I agree with some of his RL opinions, however, he is not really any more fit to be president than I am. Reagan was a terrible governor who gutted the University of California, which previously had been one of the best colleges in the world, and it cost hardly anything to go to. If only that was the case today. Reagan went on to become a crappy president as well. The fact that Shwarzenegger is also turning out to be a mediocre-at-best governor leads me to believe that actors should not run for political office. This includes Martin Sheen.

4. We spend millions, billions more on the war than on things like Medicare, that actually help people.

5. No, not always. And hey... if the shoe fits.

6. Who?

7. That depends on one's perspective. From one standpoint, it is always evil, as it involves killing, which is always wrong, but then it is a necessary evil at times. However, it would be wrong, if say China invaded us, for the government to do nothing, so in that case it would be right. However, Attacking group B when it was group A that attacked you, is in fact, just wrong.

8. Well, there was certainly something wrong with the Soviet Union. A government cannot be FOR the people if it isn't BY the people. They had no civil liberties. Also, communism takes too much coordination on the national level to work. However, in smaller communities it can work quite well.

9. My parents can't pay for me to go to some prissy private university. I'm in that group that doesn't qualify for financial aid, yet is really not quite rich enough to handle college expenses. Even the UC's and CSU's (which used to be affordable even to the dirt poor, before reagan cut funding as governor) will be costly. I have never been to a private school in my life.

10. That's stretching it. A lot. In fact, I'm a big fan of WWII movies and old rifles.

This entire thread is flamebait.

And how did you get Gnostikos to say something offensive? You must be a real asshole.

And selgin for the reference I respect your viewpoint as a legitimate one I merely ask that you return the favor. (and in the matrix there were people liberated from the system weren't there) just because your in doesn't mean you can't get out, read 1984 and farenheit 451 great books
Excellent books, both. May I suggest Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, and, my personal favorite, the Bible. Perhaps we can liberate you from the bondage of communist ideology? :D

System of a down is building an image that has been capitalized on, hence I don't like them but those lyrics have aring of truth to them

I suggest "A History of the American People"

Wait...Sweden and the Netherlands aren't the same nation, are they? That's not right... And what do you mean by it making you reconsider pure capitalism? I really haven't learned much on foreign governments yet, so I'd like to know what it is about them that's unique.
By Netherlands I mean Amsterdam (you're so not a stoner, are you? :p

Sweden, all of the war-haters have a strange form of socialism that seems to be working great.
America and Europe are trying out a more capitalist form of economics that's being propogandized as socialism.
It's neither capitalist or socialist. It's bullshit.

Selgin thank you for making me laugh, it felt nice, and i have read the bible, well by that I mean Job and revelations because they're heavy on the brimstone smitin' but try reading marx we might be able to cure you of your capitalistic dog Ideaology :)

I suggest "A History of the American People"
Even better is America: the Book.

System of a down is building an image that has been capitalized on
Yeah, I find it funny how capitalism is benefitting from the anti-capitalists.

Due to the lack of a certian clown I must fill in...but I have run out of taco's so...
*munches a bagel (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378773)*

Neo-Anarchist,

Do you even understand this whole Che pop phase, its crap the man was a communistic leader and now he's rakin walmart in piles of money

Even better is America: the Book.
I've always liked the "Book of America". Or "America: A History". Or "American History: the Book". Or "The Book of American History". Or ... :D

Has anyone read the Irony of democracy?

Neo-Anarchist,

Do you even understand this whole Che pop phase, its crap the man was a communistic leader and now he's rakin walmart in piles of money
Yeah, my friends and I were so angry when it became popular for all the skater kids to wear those shirts with Guevara's picture on them.
:mad:

I've always liked the "Book of America". Or "America: A History". Or "American History: the Book". Or "The Book of American History". Or ... :D
No, actually America the Book: A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction 0wnz all of those.

No, actually America the Book: A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction 0wnz all of those.
Did you mean "In Action", or "Inaction"?
:D

Selgin thank you for making me laugh, it felt nice, and i have read the bible, well by that I mean Job and revelations because they're heavy on the brimstone smitin' but try reading marx we might be able to cure you of your capitalistic dog Ideaology :)
That's capitalist pig, if you please. Dang commie pinko ... ;)

Did you mean "In Action", or "Inaction"?
:D
No, I wuite literally meant "Inaction". I highly recommend it.

ohh sorry old boy, quite skipped over the pig thing, Animal Farm Threw Me Off A Bit

No, I wuite literally meant "Inaction". I highly recommend it.
That is so great!
And to think I thought it was a typo...

let this be a lesson to all of you,

When you just agree to disagree you will eventually have a perfectly innocent conv about literature. AND IT WILL ALWAYS RESULT IN LITERATURE (mathholes your screwed)

Yeah, my friends and I were so angry when it became popular for all the skater kids to wear those shirts with Guevara's picture on them.
:mad:

Who isn't? :headbang:

No, actually America the Book: A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction 0wnz all of those.
It's like Captain Obvious comes to the rescue.
Who can argue? C'mon!

It's like Captain Obvious comes to the rescue.
Who can argue? C'mon!
...Good point.

Did You Guys Ever Realize How Much Shit Turns Up If You Type In Soviet On Ebay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????

[QUOTE=Gnostikos]...Good point. [QUOTE]
In your opinion, does John belong to any party? Like on his voting card

Or is he purely Independant like Bill O'Reilly now?

In your opinion, does John belong to any party? Like on his voting card?
Or is he purely Independant like Bill O'Reilly now?
He might register with a party so that he can vote in the primaries, but he seems like an independent at heart to me. Unlike O'Reilly, though he tries sometimes. And, by the by, it's "Jon".

And, by the by, it's "Jon".
D'oh! And I've read both of his books!
*hideous*

1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.


What you, in your simplistic black-and-white, comfortingly manichean, propaganda-fed world seem not to understand, is that voicing criticism of Bush does not mean supporting that monster Saddam.

Also, your use of the hypothetical shows gross lack of knowledge and/or humaness: Bush's actions have already killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq. There's no "think he will do" about it.


2. Sweden has the ideal society.


Let's see... In all comparative studies, Sweden comes up right on top (sometimes alternating with Canada) in terms of best place to live, be it in terms of life expectancy, literacy, health, or any other of the essentials of life. Way in front of the US. You're entitled to your priorities, but somehow mine lie with a country that gives its citizens a long and healthy life, and genuinely cares about the well-being of its people. I wouldn't go so far as to say "ideal", but it has one of the best societies on offer, yes.


3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.


No, I don't say that. And I'm not even a "Liberal" (in the American sense); I'm much further to the left than that.


4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.


Why, yes, I quite agree with that, thank you. :) Somehow, compassion and solidarity are important to me, while, strangely enough, I object to illegally invading another nation for fictitious reasons. I assume your position is the opposite: you will eagerly churn out money for the war, but will howl in protest if asked to contribute a little for those of your fellow citizens living in misery? If all the money pumped into this war had gone into vital social issues, or into saving lives, at home or abroad, you would have objected?


5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.


No, I prefer to debate matters reasonably. I've had a number of lengthy and very interesting discussions with people who support Bush, and we talked without getting angry at each other. While I disagreed with them, I acknowledged they were well-informed and made well thought-out points.


6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.


Never heard of her.


7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.


No for the first; in some extreme, tragic cases, war is necessary. The invasion of Iraq was anything but. And yes to the latter; Carter is a voice of reason.


8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.


That depends in what sense. As an ideal, it's brilliant. Such as it has been corrupted in real life, it was very wrong, and I doubt you'll find many people to defend it. Having said that, for all its faults in practice, it would be absurd to deny Communist systems did have some positive points. Eastern European countries lost tremendously in terms of vital social rights when they switched to a capitalist system. And Cuba spends more per capita on guarenteeing the health of its citizens than any other nation on your side of the Atlantic. That doesn't alter the fact that there is and was much to fault in those systems. (Again, do you see only in black and white?)


9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.


No, I spend so much of my time earning a living that I have little time to protest.


10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie

I would need to go into that one in more detail, but your statement is simplistic nonsense. First, I am absolutely opposed to censoring violence in films. I personnally object to some forms of violence in films - specifically, violence that does not convey its own horror, violence that is pure entertainment, violence in other words that doesn't make you react, that doesn't leave you thoughtful and with a deep emotional reaction. On the contrary, I think films such as Full Metal Jacket or Battle Royale are made powerful, moving and thought-provoking in great part thanks to their violence. But that's just me, and as I said, I'm opposed to censorship. Let everyone make their own assessment of the matter.

I'm surprised Belew hasn't decided to flame back at a lot of people yet...

I'm surprised Belew hasn't decided to flame back at a lot of people yet...
That's cause he's not here. He left a while ago.
;)

You know you're a liberal if...


1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.


2. Sweden has the ideal society.


3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.


4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.


5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.


6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.


7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.


8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.


9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.


10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie

Well, I make five out of ten. I'll just have to try harder. :p

That's cause he's not here. He left a while ago.
;)

That would explain it... Or would it? ... Most likely yes...

You know you're a liberal if...


1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.


2. Sweden has the ideal society.


3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.


4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.


5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.


6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.


7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.


8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.


9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.


10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie

You know you're a liberal if... you say nasty things about conservatives and hurt there feelings. (There's certainly plenty of complaints about this anyway.)

I can't be bothered with the whole thread, if this has already come up, please except my apologies for repetition!!!

Freedom isnt cheap.

Well.. is it worth getting then ? Be honest: does the majority of the general population truly care if they live in a free society or not ? Do they all enthousiastically run to the voting boots when it's time to vote or do they consider other things more important ? Is their preferred tv show a political debate or uncensored and unbiased newsprogram, or a soapopera / the latest superbowl ? Do they generally join demonstrations or promotional campaigns to show their opinion to other people or are they more interested in walking their dog ? Do they even really think that other opinions are ok, or do they condemn things not fitting their beliefs (e.g. homosexuality) ?

In short: do they wake up every day thinking "I'm so happy that I live in this glorious free nation" or would they be just as happy if the trash is reguraly picked up and the government doesn't seem overly interested in them personally ? And that the odd person gets arrested for his belief or other dubious reasons.. well, you don't hang out with that rifraf anyway, right ?

Because you are a good, stereotypical capitalist republican, citizen.

Note: the last sentence was meant as a reference to the stereotype portrait of liberals displayed in the first post of this topic. It was not meant seriously -though it is an interesting philosophical debate what the monetary value of freedom actually is - and if a majority actually needs it...

Freedom isnt cheap.


Oh I do so love bumper sticker catch phrases. What, pray tell, price have you paid for your freedom, eh?

question:

what do people think they have to gain by reposting lists like this one, list which are already plastered on countless partisan websites on the 'net? they're not really that funny, they're almost never even remotely close to accurate when it comes to portraying the average liberal or conservative or Southerner or whoever, and they've all been so over-used that what little wit they had is long since worn out.

do you really think you strengthen your own position, somehow, by posting this? do you think you make people think by posting this? do you think you promote reasonable, open debate? do you just like posting something inflamatory because you need to get your kicks by annoying random strangers over the internet? what exactly prompted the decision to cut-and-paste this thread's openning post?

what do people think they have to gain by reposting lists like this one, list which are already plastered on countless partisan websites on the 'net?

160+ posts of attention getting goodness.

160+ posts of attention getting goodness.
wow. i mean...wow. you're right, it just makes me so sad to think that there are people so desperate, lonely, and pathetic that they need to make themselves feel important by creating a minor irritation for complete strangers on a discussion forum.

everybody, let's all give Belew a great big hug! c'mon, General Forum, let's show him that getting positive attention is much better than getting negative attention!

you have the capacity to care for all people equally.

Only time I'll ever post this, so get it now:

The Netherlands make me reconsider pure capitalism. An enigma that keeps me up at night, in a pleasant, skunky-scented way.


HAHA!!

You know you're a liberal if...
1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.

2. Sweden has the ideal society.

3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.

4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.

5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.

6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.

7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.

8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.

9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.

10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie

That's how you define a liberal!!???!!

Ok, well it's good to know I'm not one, nor have I ever met one.

Well.. is it worth getting then ? Be honest: does the majority of the general population truly care if they live in a free society or not ? Do they all enthousiastically run to the voting boots when it's time to vote or do they consider other things more important ? Is their preferred tv show a political debate or uncensored and unbiased newsprogram, or a soapopera / the latest superbowl ? Do they generally join demonstrations or promotional campaigns to show their opinion to other people or are they more interested in walking their dog ? Do they even really think that other opinions are ok, or do they condemn things not fitting their beliefs (e.g. homosexuality) ?

In short: do they wake up every day thinking "I'm so happy that I live in this glorious free nation" or would they be just as happy if the trash is reguraly picked up and the government doesn't seem overly interested in them personally ? And that the odd person gets arrested for his belief or other dubious reasons.. well, you don't hang out with that rifraf anyway, right ?

Because you are a good, stereotypical capitalist republican, citizen.

Note: the last sentence was meant as a reference to the stereotype portrait of liberals displayed in the first post of this topic. It was not meant seriously -though it is an interesting philosophical debate what the monetary value of freedom actually is - and if a majority actually needs it...

You've never visted the US I take it. Try to take freedom away from someone living in a "RED" (Most of the US is RED) state. They'll kill you on sight.

I am VERY happy to live in this nation. The people who complain and hate the United States are the liberals. Liberals hate the US and constantly cry about how terrible it is. But the thing that I dont understand is that, if it is so bad, why are they still here? You dont see americans trying to emigrate to other countries by the masses. But some people on this thread have mentioned how wonderful Castro is, but we have thousands of his people, daily, wanting to enter the US on rafts just south of Florida.

Ask yourself this; Why is America the greatest country in the world? FREEDOM!!! Then ask yourself, why is America the leader of freedom? The answer: We are based on Judeo-Christian values. We left europe to get away from monarchy and socialism to form our own nation.

I have never missed a vote, and quite a large number of Americans voted this past November. You should not question my pratriotism. I love this country, I love my president, I hate socialist countries like most of the world. Thats why so many countries hate us, they hate freedom. They fear it. Just like they fear god.

2. Sweden has the ideal society.

I don't know about "ideal", but we beat the US any day in anything that matters.

I don't know about "ideal", but we beat the US any day in anything that matters.

Hmm. An ice free beach with women who can get a decent tan is something that matters to me.

Hmm. An ice free beach with women who can get a decent tan is something that matters to me.
Tanning is overrated. But then I am a Minnesotan, who looks like a Swede and still has relatives there, so maybe I am biased.

I just have to see those tan lines...

Hmm. An ice free beach with women who can get a decent tan is something that matters to me.

Sweden has very evenly tempered summers and has "ice free beaches" quite far north for a considerable time of year. The accounts of the cold climate are vastly exaggerated by people who obviously know nothing about the Gulf stream. How else would we have "bikini teams"? :p

Oh, and ski tans are sexier...

Sweden has very evenly tempered summers and has "ice free beaches" quite far north for a considerable time of year. The accounts of the cold climate are vastly exaggerated. How else would we have "bikini teams"? :p

I think the beaches in Florida, Southern California, or Hawaii are probably warmer. As for me, I'm all into those thongs...

I think the beaches in Florida, Southern California, or Hawaii are probably warmer. As for me, I'm all into those thongs...

True, but we make our summers count with the added bonus of a liberating lack of puritanism.

True, but we make our summers count with the added bonus of a liberating lack of puritanism.

I never thought that summer at Daytona was even slightly puritan. I recall overhearing two prostitutes commiserating that they were going to be broke until winter - they said the young girls were just giving it away.

And they were.

LMAO MORE LIBERAL BASHING LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!1111111

http://www.gdnctr.com/list2.htm

OK, back on track...

You know you're a Democrat if you'll gladly take your girlfriend down to the abortion clinic and pay for them to chop up that five month old fetus and suck its pulped body into a glass jar, but you'll also gladly march in the street in front of the prison to protest the death penalty.


Of course, the Republican version might be that you'll secretly fly your daughter out of the country so that she can get that very same abortion without anyone knowing, and then you'll gladly sit in the witness section of the execution chamber and grin as they inject the prisoner with lethal chemicals.

Hmm. You know, the second one is more consistent...

You know you're a liberal if...

Well, this is the problem. Everyone seems to have a different definition of what a "liberal" is. Many just try to identify with the word ("liberal" as well as "conservative") because they don't have the time or will to investigate their own political convictions and decide copying a seemingly stock is the best way to go--like choosing your spouse because he/she's wearing your favorite color. It's arbitrary and pretty dumb.

Some, especially of those I've seen on here divide liberals into economic/fiscal and social liberals. Under this designation President Bush could possibly be classified as a "fiscal liberal" (depending on how one even defines that).

On a global scale, there're even the Eastern and Western European identities of liberal. A "liberal" in Western Europe (I believe) is identified with libertarianism: lassez-faire, coservative-ish, "republican". In Eastern Europe (specifically, post-communist countries), "liberals" are in opposition to "traditionalists" or "gradualists", whose differences stem from their ideas of transition into a democratic state (liberals tend to prefer quick, "shock therapy" solutions).

A liberal could be someone interested in business, quick transitions to democracy, social or fiscal liberty, an extremely partisan democrat, or a kid who wants to disobey his parents and poke smot. The list presented really isn't a very useful description of "liberals". Of course I am posting and contributing to the life of the thread. So, I guess I'm part of the problem, too.

3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.

Even though the late Pres. Reagan was a republican, support of him (especially now that he's passed on) has always seemed fairly bi-partisan to me...

9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.

Curiously enough, I saw an anti-abortion protest in the news the other day. I'd wager the majority of them wouldn't like being called "liberals". I wouldn't doubt if a comparable number of them had comparablely extensive post-secondary educations, either.

And being someone who receives a portion of the money for my schooling from my parents (thanks mum and dad!), I don't think these two terms are related.

Fine then, I'm not a liberal by your standards. So you can't call me one during a debate.

And I hope Belew is joking...

Of course it is. Don't you know war benifits people just as much. :sarcasm:

War to free people from a ruthless tyrant is not unjustified. (for the hundredth time... sigh)

That was in response to the same quote which Branin answered.

I never thought that summer at Daytona was even slightly puritan. I recall overhearing two prostitutes commiserating that they were going to be broke until winter - they said the young girls were just giving it away.

And they were.

That's a lack of dignity because of puritanism.

That's a lack of dignity because of puritanism.

I remember having a contest with a girl to see who could piss further and higher over the hood of a car.

I didn't perceive a lack of dignity - and she beat me. I've never seen anything like it since.

You've never visted the US I take it. Try to take freedom away from someone living in a "RED" (Most of the US is RED) state. They'll kill you on sight.

Red as in republican voting, not as in 'communists' I take it ;) ?
And define 'freedom'in this instance please. Freedom to vote ? Freedom to protest ? Freedom to NOT go to church ? Freedom to... ?

I am VERY happy to live in this nation. The people who complain and hate the United States are the liberals. Liberals hate the US and constantly cry about how terrible it is. But the thing that I dont understand is that, if it is so bad, why are they still here?

Idealistic answer: You don't ? Complaining does NOT necessarily mean you don't love your country. It can also mean you want the best for it, and consider the current course isn't it. They could move away - but stay to help and try to open peoples eyes before it is too late. One could argue that NOT complaining is NOT loving your country.

Realistic answer: all sides complain. Humans complain. It is in our nature. Most humans are FAR too lazy to actually do anything with those complaints though . I assume you agree on that - seeing you didn't refute my earlier examples (contained in the questions) illustrating this. If not - please say so.

You dont see americans trying to emigrate to other countries by the masses. But some people on this thread have mentioned how wonderful Castro is, but we have thousands of his people, daily, wanting to enter the US on rafts just south of Florida.
Of course - they think they will have a better life there. No the real question is: do they ? Does the winning of 'freedom' negate the poverty they also endure - or were they poor to begin with ? For clarity: I don't know - but there probably are studies on that.

Ask yourself this; Why is America the greatest country in the world?
'Greatest'... in what way ? Direct military might I'll give you .. but looking at things like standard of living, most compassionate citizens, highest per capita income, highest average education etc. the USA is not the greatest nation. Though it doesn't score *too* bad on most.

FREEDOM!!!
Proof it. My gut says you may be right, but my gut is not valid proof. Especially since some monarchies offer MORE freedom then the USA at some points. Which means we again need a definition of freedom before we can continue.

Then ask yourself, why is America the leader of freedom?
I daresay many countries do not agree with this title. This includes most of Europe.

The answer: We are based on Judeo-Christian values. We left europe to get away from monarchy and socialism to form our own nation.
Eeehm... no to the second part. Please read up on the history of the USA. The valuesystem has its merits.

I have never missed a vote, and quite a large number of Americans voted this past November.

Only 60,7% - the highest turnout since 1968. Should it not be around 90% if all citizens really care about this 'freedom' that much ? And how many of the people that did vote can name more than 5 parties that participated in the elections ?

You should not question my pratriotism.
I am not. I am questioning the value the average citizen places on freedom in everyday live.

I love this country, I love my president,
Congratulations :)

I hate socialist countries like most of the world.
The rest of the world is surprised to hear that this is its opinion.

Thats why so many countries hate us, they hate freedom. They fear it.
Fear freedom ? Possibly. Having someone telling you what to do can be quite comforting.. even if it is a very bad person.
Now the question is.. are they right in fearing it ?

Just like they fear god.
Eeeehm... explain ????

You know you're a conservative if...you can't stand your gay uncle, but you invite him to your son's wedding because he's rich.

You know you're a liberal if...you can't stand your rich uncle, but you invite him to your daughter's graduation because he's gay.

:p

You know you're a (Canadian) liberal when you call a man who opposed Britains "colonial" war against the Nazi's, or met with and approved of the action of such people as Stalin, Mao, or Mugabe as your greatest leader of all time and you don't find it odd that virtually every PM since the turn of the century has been Catholic and from Quebec.

:headbang:
You said it. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

I love it! :)
I'm going to print that list out and check off each one that I find when I engage in conversation with some liberals.

5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.

No I suppose we'd do better to raise our voices and yell "Nine Eleven!" and "Terrorist!"

In the US, if you want more money for public schools, but insist on sending your children to a Quaker or Jewish private school, you're probably a Democrat.

If you own a Ford Expedition, just so you can haul your kids around the suburbs, but you protest against oil drilling while complaining about the price of gasoline, you're probably a Democrat.

If you aren't a blue collar worker, and instead are a fairly affluent software developer who claims to support labor unions (hey, have to look out for the American worker), but you keep shopping at Pier 1 Imports for that last item to go in your living room, you're probably a Democrat.

If you are a famous personage, and have several bodyguards armed with fully automatic weapons, and have a cliffside mansion compound in Malibu with an electric fence to keep out the riff raff, but you want all guns banned because you're really afraid some fan you've never heard of will shoot you someday, you're definitely a Democrat. Especially if you sue to try to keep people from taking pictures of your cliffside mansion from 3000 feet up - and when you lose, you refuse to pay the court costs and penalties, because the law doesn't apply to Democrats.

If you are a famous personage, and have several bodyguards armed with fully automatic weapons, and have a cliffside mansion compound in Malibu with an electric fence to keep out the riff raff, but you want all guns banned because you're really afraid some fan you've never heard of will shoot you someday, you're definitely a Democrat. Especially if you sue to try to keep people from taking pictures of your cliffside mansion from 3000 feet up - and when you lose, you refuse to pay the court costs and penalties, because the law doesn't apply to Democrats.

True Democrats don't want all guns banned--only the far left do.

Democrats know that guns won't be banned, and they know we have the right to own them. They're just trying to make it harder for the criminal people to get them.

Although I disagree with their ways, especially this idea, please don't say Democrats want all guns banned. They don't.

From the Bureau of Citing Your Sources:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1046914/posts (you have to scroll a bit)

Ah, FreeRepublic, that glorious forum of tolerance and harmony. I still don't regret invading their region way back when....*hides from MACTO*

From the above website comes this glorious sentiment................................
"If you're FOR electric cars and AGAINST electric chairs"
lets hope the neo-cons are the other way round. :D

No, that would be you know you're a Dummicrat. Biiiiiiig difference from liberal.

You know you're a liberal if labels matter. Black, African-American, moslem, muslim, liberal, Democrat...All those labels matter. Heaven forbid you should be called by the wrong one!

You know you're foolish when you value yourself over the community.

You know you're a prisoner when you would rather be safe then free.

You know you're ignorant when you refuse to listen to the other side.

You know you're lost when you never question the Authority above you.

You know you're a parrot when you trust known liars as gospel preachers.

You know you're savage when you believe war harolds peace.

You know you're Human when you put the group ahead of yourself.

You know you're Human when you consider Them - those people who don't share your skin color, economic ability, religon & ideologies - just as deserving of Inalienable Rights as you are.

You know you're free when you can keep what you earn.

You know you're honest when you earn what you keep.

What do you really know?

You know how to be human.

"Liberty, Equality, Fraternity."
---Salaam,
*YOUR NAME HERE*

applaudes, im going to put that in an essay

You know your a liberal when you want to ban guns and start a revolution against Bush at the same time.

You know you're a liberal if you think God's last name is "Damn." :D

You know you're foolish when you value yourself over the community.

You know you're free when you can keep what you earn.

You're all over the map, I'm not seeing coherency in your immediate future.

You know you're a liberal if you're afraid of allowing God's influence into government.

You know you're a liberal if you're afraid of allowing God's influence into government.
You know you're an idiot if you still think God goes with government.

You know you're an idiot if you still think God goes with government.
Oh hurt me! Boo hoo!

As a liberal, I tend to think liberalism is about civil liberties and being a-moral, not immoral as most republicans/conservatives would believe. And war has nothing to do with liberalism. A Liberal Democrat was the commander-in-cheif of the biggest war we have had yet, and elected for four times, i might add.
The thing liberals have about this war, or atleast for me, is that it wasn't justified except saying that it had something to do with morals, which is a bunch of BS. Now, DADDY did have it right when he invaded the first time because the Iraqi's invaded a small country called Kuwait.

Anyways.. what was I typing about? O yeah..

Communism is bad, mmkay. Socialism TO A DEGREE is good, such as healthcare, because socialism doesn't dominate someone's life, like communism.
CAPITILISM IS GOOD, MMKAY. Privitization is bad, it doesn't increase our economy, if just makes the poor poorer.

so anyways, my 2 cents, liberalism is about keeping civil liberties mainly, less business, more power to the people..
We like the government that's by the people, for the people, and of the people.

Oh hurt me! Boo hoo!
That's your defense?

You know you're an idiot if you still think God goes with government.

You know you're a religous fanatic/fascist (right or left wing) or historically ignorant if you think god and government can safely be applied in the same institution.

That's your defense?
There's no defense against stupidity, compounded by brevity.

Maybe you were looking for "Nuh, Uh!".

liberalism is about keeping civil liberties mainly, less business, more power to the people..
You're for less business? Really???
So, apparently is Mexico. What about this is slightly attractive?
Back that up. Also, do you have stats for your attack on privaization?

And do you mean more power to unemplyed people? Because everyone I know is involved in business.

you know the over generalizing cut and paste guy is right when it strikes this strong a nerve with this many people. :D

Maybe you were looking for "Nuh, Uh!".
Kid that's exactly what I got.

You know you're a religous fanatic/fascist (right or left wing) or historically ignorant if you think god and government can safely be applied in the same institution.
See Eichorn, this is what you should have said. Then I could have said "Nuh Uh!" with some feeling.

The United States was founded by religous men that believed man's rights came from his Creator. Tell me why we can't have God involved in our government? Oh wait, He was there at the very beginning of it!

Having the Ten Commandments in a courthouse, or saying a prayer before a football game makes us a theocracy.

See Eichorn, this is what you should have said. Then I could have said "Nuh Uh!" with some feeling.

The United States was founded by religous men that believed man's rights came from his Creator. Tell me why we can't have God involved in our government? Oh wait, He was there at the very beginning of it!

Having the Ten Commandments in a courthouse, or saying a prayer before a football game makes us a theocracy.
You obviously are in high school where the info you've received has been heavily filtered.
The founding fathers were not made up of Christians per se. Many were Deists or just plain indifferent.
The 10 Commandments aren't an homage to a general "creator", let's not bullshit.

It's not like Buddhists, Jews or Muslims are moved by the thing.

That's clearly picking one religion over any other.

You know you're a right-wing nut job when:

1. Whenever someone tries to talk to you about the Clinton Administration, you struggle to form coherent sentences between screams of "pervert" and "immoral bastard."

2. You wouldn't mind having Dick Cheney as your President - in fact, you're rather fond of him.

3. Ann Coulter turns you on...not with her looks, but with the way she attacks anyone to the left of Strom Thurmond (may his saintly soul rest in peace).

4. You fantasize about owning some depleted uranium of your own.

5. You commonly refer to the term "liberal" as "the 'L' word."

6. You think that Jesus preferred self-reliance over helping others.

7. You commonly misread one of the Beatitudes ("Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.") as "Blessed are the peacemakers: for you shall ignore them."

8. You think that cotton fields would solve Washington DC's unemployment problems.

9. You think that Hillary Clinton smells like sulfur.

10. You think gay marriage should be illegal, even though no church could be forced by the government to perform a gay marriage ceremony were it to be legalized. In fact, churches still wouldn't marry gay people and they'd only be able to get married in a courthouse - but you just like the idea of a good ol' theocracy, because "freedom of religion" only applies to Christianity. Yay!

11. You attack John Kerry for protesting the Vietnam War because you still think that the war was a good idea. After all, war can never be wrong.

-Written by an Independent who hates both wings of both parties.

You're for less business? Really???
So, apparently is Mexico. What about this is slightly attractive?
Back that up. Also, do you have stats for your attack on privaization?

And do you mean more power to unemplyed people? Because everyone I know is involved in business.

Well, I'm for capatilism as it is, yet privatizing anything has shown to be a bad idea. Look at the Air Traffic Control system. If you privatize it, the airport decays because the companies that man them are the airline industries. And they do not care if the Air Traffic Controllers are good at their position or not, they only care about getting more flights out of the airport, and this has been proven by practices in Europe.

The same will happen if you do that to medicare, the companies just want, you guessed it, money, and leads to poor coverage. Yup, this is proven too...

http://www.citizen.org/documents/pporeportfinal.pdf

And about unemployment, I strongly agree that people should be employed, yet I believe healthcare should be given, no matter what.

Any more questions? be happy to answer them

You obviously are in high school where the info you've received has been heavily filtered.
The founding fathers were not made up of Christians per se. Many were Deists or just plain indifferent.
The 10 Commandments aren't an homage to a general "creator", let's not bullshit.

It's not like Buddhists, Jews or Muslims are moved by the thing.

That's clearly picking one religion over any other.
Drop the supercilious airs. They aren't needed.

This nation wasn't founded by Buddhists, Jews, or Muslims. I don't think we need to accomodate their beliefs in our government. Nor do I think we need to exclude all references to any Creator. This nation was founded by religious men that believed our rights came from God. I don't know how this is disputable. Read the Declaration of Independence, for Pete's sake.

Now as to religious artifacts in government, why does it matter what is posted? The federal government is only obligated to "...make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...". The fact that the Umatilla High School says a prayer before a football game is certainly not in violation of that. The fact that they are prohibited from doing so, is clearly a violation of their rights.

A Liberal Democrat was the commander-in-cheif of the biggest war we have had yet, and elected for four times, i might add. And violating American law by accepting a third and then fourth term.


Socialism TO A DEGREE is good, such as healthcare, because socialism doesn't dominate someone's life, like communism.Unless you're a doctor, then you lose the right to choose where and for whom you work. Or unless you're a patient, then you lose the right to choose where and from whom you recieve medical care. But hey, stealing someone elses property (the doctors medical skill) for the assumed good of the group is worth eliminating a few basic individual rights.


CAPITILISM IS GOOD, MMKAY. Privitization is bad, it doesn't increase our economy, if just makes the poor poorer.Really, damn, Canada must have some of the richest poor. Considering all of the Crown corperations the government operates. Citizens must be able to get healthcare from canada's socialized system as soon as they need it. Oops, no. Average waiting list stretch months, years in the extremes. Even then it's not garunteed that you won't be bumped down the list. You don't even have the choice as to whether you receive care at a public or private hospital. As private hospitals are illegal; it's work for the government or don't work in a hospital. You have to go to the US to recieve care in the near future if your death is not immediatly certain.

This nation wasn't founded by Buddhists, Jews, or Muslims. I don't think we need to accomodate their beliefs in our government.

Freedom of Religion only applies to your beliefs? I love it.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

The Constitution is what matters! The Declaration of Independence has no weight in any argument about the government...sheesh.

As a Christian, I have to ask this question to you (since your posts make it clear you're a Christian as well): Do you think that making people adhere to Christian beliefs will make them want to be Christian? Freedom of religion is the only thing that allows us to truly spread God's Word like Jesus told us to...not cramming it down the populace's throat against their will. Abolishing freedom of religion imposes upon free will - the very reason we are human and the very reason we can be judged fairly by God.

The theological implications of your argument are horrible - go read some C.S. Lewis.

Sickening.

And violating American law by accepting a third and then fourth term.

All credibility gone.

The same will happen if you do that to medicare, the companies just want, you guessed it, money, and leads to poor coverage. Yup, this is proven too...
a Health Care News exclusive series
Written By: Conrad F. Meier
Published In: Health Care News
Publication Date: September 24, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since February of this year, Health Care News has featured a series of monthly case studies documenting how community rating and guaranteed issue mandates have destroyed the individual health insurance markets in eight states. These mandates are not merely poorly crafted laws: They represent fundamentally bankrupt ideas in what should be a voluntary, consumer-driven insurance marketplace. They have succeeded only in making individual insurance less available and more expensive than it otherwise would be; hundreds of thousands of people have been shut out of the health insurance market in these states.

With the exception of Kentucky and New Hampshire, where policymakers are attempting to restore the free market and individual choice, the states we have profiled have done little to address the serious damage their 1990s’ interventions have caused. It remains to be seen whether elected officials in Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Vermont, and Washington State will move in the direction of a more consumer-driven health care marketplace by taking our recommendations to heart. Specifically, we urge state policymakers in these states to:


Repeal community rating and guaranteed issue mandates.


Roll back mandated insurance benefits by allowing insurers to offer “mandate-lite” and even mandate-free policies.


Give individuals who buy insurance the same tax breaks as those whose employers provide insurance.


Encourage the use of Health Savings Accounts by giving public employees the option to choose them and providing state income tax deductions for deposits made to the accounts.


Establish a high-risk health insurance pool for the medically uninsurable by using the $1 million seed money fund established by the Bush administration under the 2003 Trade Adjustment Act.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one of thousands of examples of why the government sucks balls when it comes to providing anything for the people but military and legal protection.

Do I really need to post things that are easily Googlable?

Do you?

And violating American law by accepting a third and then fourth term.


Unless you're a doctor, then you lose the right to choose where and for whom you work. Or unless you're a patient, then you lose the right to choose where and from whom you recieve medical care. But hey, stealing someone elses property (the doctors medical skill) for the assumed good of the group is worth eliminating a few basic individual rights.


Really, damn, Canada must have some of the richest poor. Considering all of the Crown corperations the government operates. Citizens must be able to get healthcare from canada's socialized system as soon as they need it. Oops, no. Average waiting list stretch months, years in the extremes. Even then it's not garunteed that you won't be bumped down the list. You don't even have the choice as to whether you receive care at a public or private hospital. As private hospitals are illegal; it's work for the government or don't work in a hospital. You have to go to the US to recieve care in the near future if your death is not immediatly certain.


Ughhh, FDR didn't violate American law, you were allowed to run more then two turns.

And socialism doesn't mean that the government picks your job, it means that the government provides your needs, thats why i believe in socialized healthcare.

And you have the facts all wrong, if you have a surgery that isn't an emergency then you are on a waiting list, yet, canada does have problems with it, that doesn't mean the US can't get it right.

Think of how much a doctor makes, a lot, let's say that the doctor makes 500,000/year just go with it. He gives a lot of that away for insurance. Not health insurance, but insurance so you can keep your license and not get sued. After everything, I'm sure he only gets around.. ughhh 250,000 after taxes and such, so anyways, the government provides him 250,000 a year, whatave.

So, what happens if he gets sued? THERES THE PROBLEM.

Our law system is why we don't have socialized healthcare. We need to change the way out legal system works, and then move towards socialized healthcare.

Drop the supercilious airs. They aren't needed.

Only if you promise to drop the pretensious airs you're putting on just by using a bloviated adjective like supercilious. (SIC)

Don't masturbate in public, please.

Freedom of Religion only applies to your beliefs? I love it.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

The Constitution is what matters! The Declaration of Independence has no weight in any argument about the government...sheesh.

No. The Congress is restricted from making laws regarding religion. I quoted from that very amendment. That doesn't mean that because a prayer at an Atmore High School football game offends a Buddhist or an Atheist, they should be prevented from offering it.

And I can't see how you can separate the Declaration of Independence from our government. That was the original charter to create this government.


As a Christian, I have to ask this question to you (since your posts make it clear you're a Christian as well): Do you think that making people adhere to Christian beliefs will make them want to be Christian? Freedom of religion is the only thing that allows us to truly spread God's Word like Jesus told us to...not cramming it down the populace's throat against their will. Abolishing freedom of religion imposes upon free will - the very reason we are human and the very reason we can be judged fairly by God.

The theological implications of your argument are horrible - go read some C.S. Lewis.

Sickening.
You misunderstand. My argument is that allowing religious artifacts into public buildings will not make this country a theocracy. Using public funds to purchase or maintain religious artifacts is a completely different matter. I completely agree that freedom of religion is essential. i just want to make sure that our society isn't free from religion in ways that were never intended.

You misunderstand. My argument is that allowing religious artifacts into public buildings will not make this country a theocracy. Using public funds to purchase or maintain religious artifacts is a completely different matter. I completely agree that freedom of religion is essential. i just want to make sure that our society isn't free from religion in ways that were never intended.
I agree with you here. Couldn't care less if they put up a 12 foot dildo, so long as it was privately funded.
It's not our Government's job to fund religious iconography.

Only if you promise to drop the pretensious airs you're putting on just by using a bloviated adjective like supercilious. (SIC)

What is incorrect about my use of the word supercilious? I don't think it's a big enough word to warrant the use of an adjective like bloviated.
Don't masturbate in public, please.
Are you just remarkably insecure about something?

Are you just remarkably insecure about something?
Yes. If you read my posts you'll soon learn that I'm very sexually conservative.

Yes. If you read my posts you'll soon learn that I'm very sexually conservative.
Okay, so I won't touch you. What's wrong with my grammar?

Yes. If you read my posts you'll soon learn that I'm very sexually conservative.

Meh. What people do or don't do in their own bedrooms is their own buisness.

Meh. What people do or don't do in their own bedrooms is their own buisness. :p
My sarcasm was too believable.

All credibility gone. Damn the fallibility of being human. I can't believe I've lost your credibility. I'm devastated.
And socialism doesn't mean that the government picks your job, it means that the government provides your needs, thats why i believe in socialized healthcare.
You misunderstood. Socialized healthcare where there is no private option violates the the individuals right to choice. The doctor cannot choose to work in a non-government run hospital, nor can the patient choose from whom they recieve care. The tax payer cannot choose not to pay into a service they will never use. They are forced, by law, to do business with one organization and only one organization. Healthcare is an industry made up of those who have chosen to spend their time and money to attain a skill they intend to market. Socialization of healthcare is a socialization of a segment of the economy and a violation of the basic rights and freedoms of the individual by the government.
And you have the facts all wrong, if you have a surgery that isn't an emergency then you are on a waiting list, yet, canada does have problems with it, that doesn't mean the US can't get it right. Once again, you have no choice as to who's waiting list you are on. I know people who had been forced to wait for upwards of two years for minor surgeries which eventually led to severe, life threatening complications. The ones who were willing eventually went into the US where they had the choice of paying and recieved immediate care.
Think of how much a doctor makes, a lot, let's say that the doctor makes 500,000/year just go with it. He gives a lot of that away for insurance. Not health insurance, but insurance so you can keep your license and not get sued. After everything, I'm sure he only gets around.. ughhh 250,000 after taxes and such, so anyways, the government provides him 250,000 a year, whatave.Closer to 200,000 after expenses and before taxes, see here (http://www.physicianboard.com/income.php3). You still have the fatal flaw, socialized healthcare violates fundemental individual rights.
So, what happens if he gets sued? THERES THE PROBLEM.The insurance he (or she) pays for covers it. Should the suit be successful, the person suing is reimbursed and the doctor pays more for the same level of coverage. Should the doctor repeatedly make mistakes which results in them being sued, insurance companies resfuse to cover them and the doctor cannot practice anymore. The doctor is held responsible for their actions. Should your healthcare providor have a history of malpractice, you are free to choose another.

Our law system is why we don't have socialized healthcare. We need to change the way out legal system works, and then move towards socialized healthcare.The rights guaranteed to every individual holding American citizenship under the constitution is why you don't have socialized healthcare.

You know you're a liberal if...
10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie


what disney movie has guns? and i dont mind guns, just so long as you arent killing people in real life. i play what some people call "violent video games", and im liberal. i just dont like war.

You know you're a liberal if...


1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.



Actually, I remember in the 90's in Britain it was the same liberals out protesting against the British and American governments selling arms and chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein whilst he was abusing his own people. What were the conservatives doing, those supporters of overthrowing Saddam... erm, selling him weapons. Liberals seem to have a problem with people supporting murder, genocide and abuse. They opposed us supporting Saddam to do it, but they had the foresight to see an invasion would lead to a much worse state overall, with less safety for the Iraqis. Just because you oppose on viewpoint, doesn't mean you support the polar opposite. International politics and morality is full of shades and grey. It's possible to oppose American and British killing and torture of civilians AND Baathist killing and torture and killing civilians.

what disney movie has guns?
Toy Story.

You dont see americans trying to emigrate to other countries by the masses.

Actually, you might be interested to know that there was a drastic and almost frightening increase in visits BY AMERICANS to websites about how become a Canadian citizen as well as telephone calls to Canadian immigration lawyers in the last few months.

Sorry, kiddo. But many of your own are trying to become some of MY own "by the masses" as of late.

I see Belew hasn't decided to argue with my back up points yet... I wonder why?

I see Belew hasn't decided to argue with my back up points yet... I wonder why?

I hope it's sepukku.

I absolutly love this. It's not even liberals flaming the original post anymore... it's just devolved into a shouting match of "You're Wrong, We're Right!" between the blues, reds, and every other color of the political rainbow.

(To the ultra-senstives: I'm not calling you a chronic depressive, communist or homosexual. Just covering my butt here.)

(To the ultar-sensitive depressive communist homosexual: not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Someone said that my post (#191) was lacking consistency. My apologies: the consistancy was that all the viewpoints expressed were both mine, and an oversimplification of basic anarch ideals. ("'An-arch,' n: An adherent of anarchy." Cute way to say "tattoed, leather-wrapped malcontent," according to certain other definitions.) Understandably, many people just now stopped giving two ratcraps. BUT! If you know, deep in your heart-of-hearts, that WE COULD DO BETTER THAN THIS, check out The Anarchist Library:

http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/

No, seriously, do it.

I'm really surprised Belew hasn't responded in any way, shape or form to my arguments. He's responded to many other people but nothing for me. Ah well an extract from the Goon Show:

Seagoon:
Chapter Three. Me. [someone blows a raspberry] One morning in the year needle-nardle-noo I had decided to spend the holiday abroad. How I love Rome with all her fountains! Ah, Rome! There's no place like Rome! Hah-ha! [clears throat self consciously]. So I thought as I sat eating a small string pie in Trafalgar Square. I spent the next hour pleasantly washing my overcoat in the fountain.
Bloodnok:
[sings] The man from Laramie... He had an elbow on each arm... and one upon his shoulder... [to Seagoon] I say. You with the zink cardigan, are you English?
Seagoon:
Only by descent.
Bloodnok:
By descent?
Seagoon:
I came down by parachute!
Bloodnok:
You ought to be ashamed of yourself. ...
Seagoon:
I don't wish to know that, sir!
Bloodnok:
In the most beautiful fountain in Trafalgar Square you have the audacity, and the audicity to wash an overcoat, thus fouling the water. You might have waited until I finished my bath!
Seagoon:
To tell you the truth, sir, I thought you were a statue.
Bloodnok:
I have enough decency, sir, not to move when I'm naked.
Seagoon:
Haven't you got a bath where you're staying?
Bloodnok:
Of course I have!
Seagoon:
Where are you staying?
Bloodnok:
Here!
Seagoon:
What made you choose Trafalgar Square?
Bloodnok:
You like pigeon pie?

Belew wrote You know you're a liberal if...


1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.
The protesting is in reference to INVASION of a country without International agreement on that decision. There have been 1,581 coalition troop deaths, 1,420 Americans, 76 Britons, seven Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Hungarian, 20 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 16 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 17 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of January 27, 2005.At least 10,502 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon. The number of Dead and Injured Iraqi's is estimated to be between 15 and 17,000 right now.. so keep up the funny "you might be a redneck if.." type humor. by my count, there are roughly 16,581 dead people because our Government chose to Invade another country. Saddam was a cold blooded killer, and should have been removed by a multinational force led by the U.N. It would have come down to that eventually.. We did not need to invade.


2. Sweden has the ideal society.
What's wrong with Sweden? I think their society is fantastic. Being an American, I like our society too. Each one is different and shaped by the people.. Obviously whomever wrote this wasn't bright enough to come up with ten even remotely intelligent reasons.. Filler/fluff.

3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.
Martin Sheen and the rest of Hollywood are just like you and I. Americans with an opinion and a voice. Attempting to silence someone is censorship.. we let all types of morons speak out loud. We have to "choose" what to listen to. Ronald Regan did some great things.. and some rotten things too. Just like most presidents. Deal with it. Nobodies gotten it 100% right.


4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.
Wow.. staggering lack of cohesive arguments here.. One is a war being waged for another by our administration, one is a social contract within our own country to ensure nobody starves or dies from a simple disease or from the common flu. Comparing apples to oranges. Our Medicare system needs reform. It's being worked on by both sides of the aisle.


5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.
Most likely. The words would definitely be included in any discussion with me regarding our current administration. And I only have to raise my voice because Conservatives are yelling LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA with their ears plugged while looking at pictures of Rush Limbaugh.


6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.
Helen Thomas is a sensationalist Hack like 99.9 % of all reporters.


7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.
War is inevitable, because human cruelty is inevitable. Remember.. it was Ronald Regan and Colonel Ollie North who traded Weapons for influence to ensure the Hostages weren't released during Jimmy Carter's presidency. It's true, look it up..

8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.
The basic concept of Communism is perfect. Sadly, the human nature involved in the system ensures that greed will eventually destroy what would be a perfect society.. it will never work.

9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.
G.I. Bill to be specific, and I earn a good living. Now put your coveralls back on and finish cleaning my septic tank.

10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie
I was in the Military. We don't like the way our Military is being used. To force our doctrines down everyone elses throat. This world needs a country to lead.. and we can do it, but we must listen to the other countries or we will find ourselves standing on a ledge with nobody to catch us if we fall.

now.. step away from your Dad's computer and go do what most young republicans do.. kick puppies and blow up frogs..

This has been a message from the Liberal Middle

Rule number one of making a joke: it has to be funny.

You have failed.

Joke? There are elements designed to make my fellow liberals snicker. But it's a rebuttal to a narrow minded post.

You Failed to understand.. how not surprising.

You know you're a liberal if...

1. You're protesting President Bush for what YOU THINK he will do to harm
innocent civilians, but the million or so murders Saddam Hussein HAS
committed are not relevant to you.

2. Sweden has the ideal society.

3. Martin Sheen is an actor who is smart enough to engage in political
discussion. Ronald Reagan should never have been elected President because
he's just an actor, for crying out loud.

4. The amount of money it will cost each individual citizen to pay for the
WAR is important to consider. The amount of money welfare, food stamps, and
Medicare cost each individual citizen is irrelevant, and selfish to
consider.

5. When people try to discuss the current administration with you, your face
becomes red, you raise your voice and use the words: "idiot" and "oil"
repeatedly.

6. You think Helen Thomas is an intelligent, gutsy lady and a dynamite
reporter.

7. You think all war is evil. And Jimmy Carter is a voice a reason.

8. You're still not clear about what exactly was wrong with Communism.

9. Your parents paid for you to go to an expensive private college and five
years later you still spend more time protesting than earning a living.

10. You don't like the sight of guns or soldiers, even in a Disney movie

To quote Dom Joly: "That... is shit."


/me notices he's wandered over the line, takes a yellow card and hops back over.