NationStates Jolt Archive

Guantanamo four arrive back in UK
Detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba
Almost 550 detainees from around 40 countries are held at the base
The last four British men held as terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay have arrived back in the UK, after almost three years in US custody.

The men, one from Birmingham and three from London, were held after the US accused them of having al-Qaeda links.

The RAF C-17 plane carrying Moazzam Begg, Martin Mubanga, Richard Belmar and Feroz Abbasi touched down at RAF Northolt in west London.

They were arrested on arrival and taken to Paddington Green police station.

After the plane touched down, a police van was driven on board and later left the base, taking the men to the central London station.


We cannot be weak... we need to be there for him
Janette Belmar

Families' hopes and fears
Detainees freed: Your views
Families speak out

A Scotland Yard spokesman said the four had been arrested under Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000, which refers to the alleged involvement in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.

The men will be medically examined by a forensic medical examiner to ensure that they are fit to be detained and interviewed by anti-terrorist branch officers.

They will be allowed a phone call, access to a lawyer and, "due to the unique circumstances", they will be allowed to see a relative, the spokesman said.

Mr Begg's father Azmat, watching the pictures of his son's arrival, said: "It is a great relief for me."

Moazzam Begg
Moazzam Begg's family has campaigned for his release

He added that his lowest point during his son's detention was when his son was selected for a military tribunal hearing with a possible death penalty.

The Pentagon said the men had been released after a request was made by the British government during talks.

A statement said Britain "has assured the US government that the detainees will not pose a continuing security threat to the United States or its allies".

Five other British detainees were freed from Guantanamo last year and were released without charge after questioning by police in the UK.

Some later said they had been hooded and shackled to the floor in painful stress positions, and had witnessed beatings and other abuse during their time at Guantanamo.


The men have gone through the worst possible conditions and it is important that we don't pile more ill-treatment upon them
Muslim Council of Britain

Free - but for how long?
UK's forgotten detainees

Muslim leaders met Home Office Minister Hazel Blears on Monday to discuss the men.

Secretary general Iqbal Sacranie told BBC News he understood the four would be examined medically to establish whether they were in a fit state to be questioned.

Insisting they should be released soon, Mr Sacranie said: "What we don't want to do is to apply torture upon torture. They have already been through a lot of suffering."

BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said alleged evidence against the men "may well have been obtained in circumstances not acceptable in courts here, perhaps under duress or perhaps from the battlefields in Afghanistan and so on".

Washington has alleged that all four men trained at camps run by al-Qaeda.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4204041.stm

Title is misleading!

They didn't escape at all. They were placed into the custody of their nation of origin on the promise that they'll be tried in a court of law.

Title is misleading!

They didn't escape at all. They were placed into the custody of their nation of origin on the promise that they'll be tried in a court of law.

Not at all...


BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said alleged evidence against the men "may well have been obtained in circumstances not acceptable in courts here, perhaps under duress or perhaps from the battlefields in Afghanistan and so on".

I doubt they will stand trial. Or if they do will be aquitted

Not at all...


BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said alleged evidence against the men "may well have been obtained in circumstances not acceptable in courts here, perhaps under duress or perhaps from the battlefields in Afghanistan and so on".

I doubt they will stand trial. Or if they do will be aquitted

Now your stretching it. This is also coming from the BBC! I'm going to have to follow this closely.

And if they DO NOT stand trial, any more brits that we catch that are serving Al Qaeda WILL NOT be turned over to Britain because of it.

Now your stretching it. This is also coming from the BBC! I'm going to have to follow this closely.

And if they DO NOT stand trial, any more brits that we catch that are serving Al Qaeda WILL NOT be turned over to Britain because of it.

I'm stretching it?? I'M STRETCHING IT????? I'm not the one who has denied due process to a bunch of people that were picked up all over the middle east!

Yes its coming from the BBC. And your issue with that is?????If you start talking crap about the BBC being liberal then I will have confirmation that you are some spotty faced 14 year old who knows nothing about the BBC nor the manner that news is gathered.

And as for last your comment well that is just not worth commenting on.

But here....have a look at this ....

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=391250

Not that you'll take notice nor have the cranial fortitude to process the information communicated.

I'm very happy about this news. Just 550 more to go. :)

It seems to me that the people are held in Guantanamo Bay with less evidence against them than many people who were held in Soviet Gulags. Ok, so exagerate here, but that's what Guantanamo is - GulagLite. Even Bush would agree with with the insurmountable evidence of them both beginning with G.

And if they DO NOT stand trial, any more brits that we catch that are serving Al Qaeda WILL NOT be turned over to Britain because of it.
I don't pretend to know much about this all... but what should they be charged with in Britain? Terrorism? Weren't these people captured fighting coalition troops in Afghanistan or summink? What sort of charges and sentences would suffice to more releases from Gitmo?

EDIT: I mean, why bitch about them NOT standing trial in Britain, when they aren't charged with anything in Gitmo either?

I don't dare post my true feelings on this thread! :headbang:

I don't dare post my true feelings on this thread! :headbang:

LOL:)

well I did say that there were things we did not see eye to eye on...

but for what its worth....go for it!

Free the Belgian!

I don't dare post my true feelings on this thread! :headbang:
Please stop that. Banging your head against the wall like that can't be healthy. Judging from reading previous threads I'd think you would be more than qualified to answer *my* question. Why keep them westerners (yeah, I narrowed it a bit, racist as I am) in Guantanamo anymore? Any intel they may have had is old, and if returned to their respective countries of origin... what could happen? I mean I understand they aren't going to be charged with anything...ever...

And... I'm just trying to understand why not. I'm not big in the blaming USA business.

The US did the same thing to a Swede. Except they never presented evidence or accused him of anything. Just kept him incarcerated for two years. As soon as he came to Sweden he was released, of course, since he was innocent.

You know, innocent until proven guilty? That used to mean something in the US...

I don't dare post my true feelings on this thread! :headbang:

Perhaps posting your "true feelings" and having them discussed and debated may prove to be more valuable than headbanging.

The US did the same thing to a Swede. Except they never presented evidence or accused him of anything. Just kept him incarcerated for two years. As soon as he came to Sweden he was released, of course, since he was innocent.

You know, innocent until proven guilty? That used to mean something in the US...

Agree fully.

If the detainees are gulity of anything, then they should be tried in an open court, not a military tribunal, which has different rules of evidence.

And if found not guilty, they should be released.

Most importantly, they should never be detained without the prospect of a trial - God knows, that right dates back to Magna Carta - I used to think we had progressed since then.

Honestly, we should have done as the Geneva convention permits and executed them on the field of battle following a court-marshall in Afghanistan. They were ununiformed, illegal combatents belonging to a para-military force (essentially mercenaries) recognized by no government of good standing and could be defined the same as spies, and shot for their actions.

I don't pretend to know much about this all... but what should they be charged with in Britain? Terrorism? Weren't these people captured fighting coalition troops in Afghanistan or summink? What sort of charges and sentences would suffice to more releases from Gitmo?

EDIT: I mean, why bitch about them NOT standing trial in Britain, when they aren't charged with anything in Gitmo either?

As far as Iknow they were arrested because they were the right colour and British. They claimed to be going to a wedding if my memory serves me correctly. If any one has n e more info I'd be happy to read it

If it turns out they are guilty of terrorism then by all means they should be punished. But, as is more likely, they are found innocent then they should be released, simple.
Lets be honest, they've been on Gitmo for years and nothings been brought against them except they were in or near Afganistan (or Pakistan), wow big evidence there!

Yes its coming from the BBC. And your issue with that is?????If you start talking crap about the BBC being liberal then I will have confirmation that you are some spotty faced 14 year old who knows nothing about the BBC nor the manner that news is gathered.

Before you get all upset over him thinking that BBC is liberal just remember that here in the US "liberal" means that facts are considered to be a source of information and that circular logic is not considered to be evidence. It's like how in England they say "lift" where here we say "elevator."

E.g. The US didn't invade Iraq over his selling oil for Euros because the US wouldn't do that.

Also conservative philosophy considers objective facts to have an agenda if they require conservative politicians to explain their positions or are not excessivly patriotic.
E.g. "It's good that Sadam's rape rooms are closed because U.S. troops don't use torture and humiliation on their prisoners. They may have done it and may do it again, but they don't do it."

By this definition the BBC is liberal. That and the fact that a lot of people who work for the BBC have college educations. Sure the president has a college education from the finest academic institution in the country (he had to go there because his local state college though he didn't meet their standards), but he got lousy grades, so that makes him a good person.

Before you get all upset over him thinking that BBC is liberal just remember that here in the US "liberal" means that facts are considered to be a source of information and that circular logic is not considered to be evidence. It's like how in England they say "lift" where here we say "elevator."

E.g. The US didn't invade Iraq over his selling oil for Euros because the US wouldn't do that.

Also conservative philosophy considers objective facts to have an agenda if they require conservative politicians to explain their positions or are not excessivly patriotic.
E.g. "It's good that Sadam's rape rooms are closed because U.S. troops don't use torture and humiliation on their prisoners. They may have done it and may do it again, but they don't do it."

By this definition the BBC is liberal. That and the fact that a lot of people who work for the BBC have college educations. Sure the president has a college education from the finest academic institution in the country (he had to go there because his local state college though he didn't meet their standards), but he got lousy grades, so that makes him a good person.


!!!!! Nicely written!! :)

Honestly, we should have done as the Geneva convention permits and executed them on the field of battle following a court-marshall in Afghanistan. They were ununiformed, illegal combatents belonging to a para-military force (essentially mercenaries) recognized by no government of good standing and could be defined the same as spies, and shot for their actions.

Please state the articles in the Convention that states this can be done?

Uninformed? 'They' (Taliban) are irregulars.

Anyway - One of the released was held as he was seen with bin Laden.

Guess what? The guy was actually in Birmingham selling CD's for HMV on the date when he was supposed to have been spotted with bin Laden.

Executed my arse.

One of the released was held as he was seen with bin Laden.

Neat! We have pics of Rumsfeild with Saddam ... can we send him to Gitmo? :D

Neat! We have pics of Rumsfeild with Saddam ... can we send him to Gitmo? :D

GITMO GITMO!!!! Why do you hate America!!!???!!!!

Why do you hate America!!!???!!!!

Because I live here. :p

Because I live here. :p


TRIPLE TIMES GITMO!!!!

~neocon head explodes~

TRIPLE TIMES GITMO!!!!

~neocon head explodes~

*snicker*

*lives in America and Loves the country*

God Bless America and may He keep us safe

I'm very happy about this news. Just 550 more to go. :)

It seems to me that the people are held in Guantanamo Bay with less evidence against them than many people who were held in Soviet Gulags. Ok, so exagerate here, but that's what Guantanamo is - GulagLite. Even Bush would agree with with the insurmountable evidence of them both beginning with G.
What the heck? They are prisoners of war. They aren't subject to rules of evidence that might apply to ordinary criminals.

*lives in America and Loves the country*


Oh I love the country .... hate and mistrust the government.

Please state the articles in the Convention that states this can be done?

Uninformed? 'They' (Taliban) are irregulars.

Anyway - One of the released was held as he was seen with bin Laden.

Guess what? The guy was actually in Birmingham selling CD's for HMV on the date when he was supposed to have been spotted with bin Laden.

Executed my arse.

If true, the line-them-up-and-shoot-em people? Pwned.

Oh I love the country .... hate and mistrust the government.

I think most people don't like government period! :D

I think most people don't like government period! :D

I think anyone who does should benefit from a little electro-shock and a healthy dose of Prozac. :D

I think anyone who does should benefit from a little electro-shock and a healthy dose of Prozac. :D

LOL!!!

Well what a surprise...they were all released...without charge

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4210815.stm


UK police release Guantanamo four
Clockwise from top left: Moazzam Begg, Martin Mubanga, Feroz Abbasi and Richard Belmar
The four were held at Guantanamo Bay for nearly three years
The four British men who returned home from Guantanamo Bay on Tuesday have been released without charge by police.

Moazzam Begg, Martin Mubanga, Feroz Abbasi and Richard Belmar left Paddington Green police station on Wednesday night, Scotland Yard said.

The men, from Birmingham and London, had been questioned by anti-terrorist officers in the UK after being held at the camp in Cuba for three years.

The four had been accused by the US of having links to al-Qaeda.

Family reunion

They are now being reunited with their families at a location of their choice, police said.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "Shortly before 9pm four men arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000 on January 25 were released without charge.

"This followed liaison between police and the Crown Prosecution Service."

He said the men had been interviewed by anti-terrorist officers after being arrested under section 41 of the act, which referred to the alleged involvement in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.


Lawyer Louise Christian
They should be treated as torture victims
Louise Christian
Lawyer for the detainees

Mr Abbasi, 24, Mr Belmar, 25, Mr Mubanga, 32, all from London and Mr Begg, 36, from Birmingham, returned to the UK on Tuesday evening in an RAF plane.

Washington had claimed all four were "enemy combatants" who trained at camps run by al-Qaeda.

The Pentagon says they were freed after the UK government promised they would not be a threat to the national security of the US or any of its allies.

Earlier on Wednesday, Louise Christian, lawyer for Mr Abbasi and Mr Mubanga, said the detainees' families were "desperate" to be reunited with their loved ones.

But she said they had turned down the chance to see their relatives in custody as a police officer would have been present.

She said they wanted to be reunited in private.

Asked about claims that the men had been tortured while in US custody, she said: "It is difficult for torture victims to talk about the torture. I am very worried about them.

"They should be treated as torture victims."

Legal action

She said Mr Abbasi had: "an air of unreality about him. He doesn't know where he is.

"Like all victims of torture he's finding it difficult to talk about it."

Her other client, Mr Mubanga, was also "very traumatised", she said.

The lawyer for Mr Begg and Mr Belmar said the four men were victims of torture needing treatment and rehabilitation.

"I can guarantee you we will sue the American government," Clive Stafford Smith added.

Well what a surprise...they were all released...without charge


Good. Sure beats being held without charge.

Good. Sure beats being held without charge.

Yep.

I am amazed at how America has become completely brainwashed...the Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves

Because I live here. :p

Maybe you ought to pack your belongings and get out. There is nothing keeping you here. Go somewhere else nice where you can express yourself, obtain clean fresh food and water to wash yourself and your clothes, get an education a job a house-raise a family-have three girls if you want-You dont even have to kill female babies here.

Maybe you ought to pack your belongings and get out. There is nothing keeping you here. Go somewhere else nice where you can express yourself, obtain clean fresh food and water to wash yourself and your clothes, get an education a job a house-raise a family-have three girls if you want-You dont even have to kill female babies here.

Wow!!! Amazing level of intellectualism in this post!!! NOT!