NationStates Jolt Archive

Few people tend to realise this but if Abe Lincoln were around today he would be a Democrat. No one has seemed to notice this, especially the GOP who tout Lincoln as the best president to ever serve in their platform.

Few people tend to realise this but if Abe Lincoln were around today he would be a Democrat. No one has seemed to notice this, especially the GOP who tout Lincoln as the best president to ever serve in their platform.

I doubt it highly. He would have had a problem with affirmative action and the lack of personal responsibility displayed by both parties at this point. If anything, I bet he'd be an independent.

No doubt. But the parties have basically switched places. My grandfather was a horrible reactionary old racist, and a staunch Democrat. Of course, he died in 1957.

I think the national leaders of most Western nations from 50-100 years ago would be appalled at the state of their national political bodies if they came alive again just for one day.

Yes, he's the President who held the Maryland Legislature at gunpoint using Federal troops, and while under gunpoint, forced them to vote to stay in the Union.

Sounds like a Democratic Party police state tactic to me...

What are you basing your argument on? That Republican are racists and would never have freed the slaves? If so you are incredibly ignorant. He would definately be a Republican. He would never condone the acts of the modern day Democratic party which has no values (not moral values, but core principals) that define it and does its best to be as obstructionist as possible. He would of supported military action to defend our country and promote freedom. If this is about race you are insane.

The parties have not changed places. The Democrats and the Republicans used to fight over the middle class while the poor usually voted Democrat and the rich voted Republican and middle class split. Then the democrats abandoned the middle class and decided to just try and support the poor while leaving the middle class to the Republicans. Thats why they are losing votes and seats, too many of their supporters in the 60s and 70s have converted to a party that speaks for them.

Unions.

Also, the famous Emancipation Proclamation was a bit of a sham. Tokenism and wage slavery became the fad.

His Westward Expansionism, particularly that long railway, caused one of the bloodiest and least remembered chapters in this nation's history.

Abe would, without a doubt, be some corporation's well-paid whore, and he probably would have authorized the mass execution of unruly workers back when the worker's unions were first gaining a significant foothold. Remember, it was practically a second Civil War and actually caused more than a few casualties. If you think that Lincoln would have sided with the exploited workers, history thinks that you are mistaken.

Also, while Lincoln may not have liked slavery and did not wish it to expand Westward, he did not believe that the state had the authority to abolish slavery in states in which it already existed. The Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in Confederate states, and slave states that remained loyal to the Union were unaffected. The EP was signed for the same reason that France and the Brits demanded ridiculous sums in reparations from Germany after the First World War even though everyone involved in that war were being stupid pigs; they decided that they were going to be vengeful cunts. They wanted to leave Germany with nothing, thinking he'd make a fine cow to be exploited in the future. Why do you think the Second World War happened? The English were being oinkheaded because the Germans didn't smile and spread their legs every time they came walking by, and look what it led to. The Civil War wasn't started over slavery, at least not mainly; it was started because the Northern states were being selfish cunts.

Let's not forgive the faults of the Confederates because of the sins of their opponents, but this is the sort of thing that happens when everyone involved decide to act like spoiled children. There are no saints in times of war, no matter how the victors make themselves out to be such.

Bill Mutz is right, Abe Lincoln was just another opportunist. Lincoln could be as racist and bigotted if being so would get him votes.

Here is a quote by Lincoln from the famous 1858 debate with Stephen Douglas, where Lincoln reveals a lack of principles and tries to gain as much votes as possible by blatantly appealing to the racism prevalent among whites, both Northern and Southern, at the time.

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor have ever been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races; that I am not nor ever been in favor of making voters of the free Negroes, or jurors, or qualifying them to hold office, or having them to marry with white people. I will say in addition, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which, I suppose, will forever forbid the two races living together upon terms of social and political equality, and inasmuch as they cannot so live, that while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, that I as much as any other white man am in favor of the superior position being assigned to the white man."

Yes, he's the President who held the Maryland Legislature at gunpoint using Federal troops, and while under gunpoint, forced them to vote to stay in the Union.

Sounds like a Democratic Party police state tactic to me...

Actually, I could see a modern day Bush doing that. Before stepping down, I could have seen Ashcroft sitting on a horse in front of the troops, delivering an ultimatum from Bush. I can hear him now... "Vote to stay in the union, otherwise the terrorists have already won."

Lincoln ran for the republican party when he was elected whoch would make him a modern day democrat.

Well he's dead 140 years, so I don't understand what were worrying about. It's not like he can run for president.

Lincoln was a Republican, which back then was the party of reform and change. It's was basically reverse back then... but the Democrats don't tell the blacks that they're the ones that wanted to keep them enslaved.

Could the thread starter explain how Abe Lincoln would be a Democrat? He was probably the most authoritarian US President ever.

Could the thread starter explain how Abe Lincoln would be a Democrat? He was probably the most authoritarian US President ever.

it was just the party he ran for.

What are you basing your argument on? That Republican are racists and would never have freed the slaves? If so you are incredibly ignorant. He would definately be a Republican. He would never condone the acts of the modern day Democratic party which has no values (not moral values, but core principals) that define it and does its best to be as obstructionist as possible. He would of supported military action to defend our country and promote freedom. If this is about race you are insane.

The parties have not changed places. The Democrats and the Republicans used to fight over the middle class while the poor usually voted Democrat and the rich voted Republican and middle class split. Then the democrats abandoned the middle class and decided to just try and support the poor while leaving the middle class to the Republicans. Thats why they are losing votes and seats, too many of their supporters in the 60s and 70s have converted to a party that speaks for them.there's been a book published about Abey being gay. so... Republican? no. remind me... which party is trying to force through an amendent that sets gays up as sub-standard citizens? I'll give you a hint: it's not the democrats.

the Democrats don't tell the blacks that they're the ones that wanted to keep them enslaved.
That sounded very patronising to black people. You neglect to mention that back in the 1960s it was Republicans who wanted to keep blacks without civil rights and segregated from whites. I would guess that's why black people vote Demo.

Okay he is not arguing which side Lincoln believed in the most. In the beginning Democrats as we know them now was the Republican party and the Republicans were called the Democrats. There was also the Whig party which got a couple presidents into the White House. Still yes Lincoln was authoritarian but he was President during the Civil War. What was he suppose to do let the country get split in half or fight to keep it whole?

there's been a book published about Abey being gay. so... Republican? no. remind me... which party is trying to force through an amendent that sets gays up as sub-standard citizens? I'll give you a hint: it's not the democrats.

So a book got published that suggests he was gay....don't tell me you believe everything you read. Lincoln was a Republican by party. There's no telling what party he would be in today, so there's not much point in arguing.

Also, just because that the parties haven't changed in who votes for him doesn't mean they haven't changed their ideaology. In Lincoln's election, the vote was split between the North and the South, not between class lines.

I think the national leaders of most Western nations from 50-100 years ago would be appalled at the state of their national political bodies if they came alive again just for one day.

that's right they would. women can vote, those creatures that cant control their emotions. blacks are marrying whites, what an abomination of nature. we stopped drafting people, where has the national prode gone? we stopped letting kids work in factories, damn buggers dont know the value of an honest day's wages. we starting using government intervention to stabilize economic cycles, we made sure the elderly had a steady source of income and people don't die in the streets when they are between jobs. stupid keynesian economics. we make sure anyone who is smart enough can get through college despite their financial background. the commies have won if you ask me. the world has gone to hell in a hand basket, im just glad madison and monroe and bismark arent around to see it.

Abe Lincoln a Democrat!?A democrat? No. A progressive liberal? Yes. The roles of the parties reverse every few decades. The GOP was once liberal. Or at least it's leaders. Like Abe.

Few people tend to realise this but if Abe Lincoln were around today he would be a Democrat. No one has seemed to notice this, especially the GOP who tout Lincoln as the best president to ever serve in their platform.
Have you talked to President Lincoln, brilliance? Not even FDR would likely (notice my choice of words, as I don't make 100% claims that I can't back, like some people) be a Democrat today. The parties only really changed in the last 40 years. I guarantee you that Abe wouldn't want God out of society, abortions, gay marriage (which I am not opposed to, but for the sake of argument), a weaker military, and all of the other things that today's liberals tout. Lincoln wasn't even opposed to slavery; he opposed its extension into the states. Also obviously wrong, but it does show that there is no way he'd be a modern Democrat/liberal. Governor Mario Cuomo once said that very same thing, and he was nailed by the press on those same points. Good attempt at an almost quasi-sensible argument. Then again, it wasn't.

He'd be a Nazi. For those ready to flame, read The Real Lincoln by Thomas DiLorenzo. Then, after you've read it, we can talk.

That sounded very patronising to black people. You neglect to mention that back in the 1960s it was Republicans who wanted to keep blacks without civil rights and segregated from whites. I would guess that's why black people vote Demo.


No, that is false. The republicans stood up to the southern democrats (who were Klan members) to get civil rights passed. Why does the democratic party have a Klan member still in it's party?

Blacks vote democratic because they have been fed fear and welfare for years. It's a great way to keep the slaves happy.

Could the thread starter explain how Abe Lincoln would be a Democrat? He was probably the most authoritarian US President ever.
Traditionally it is the democrats who have a bigger more powerful government....

That sounded very patronising to black people. You neglect to mention that back in the 1960s it was Republicans who wanted to keep blacks without civil rights and segregated from whites. I would guess that's why black people vote Demo.


no, i think you are wrong...i am pretty sure i remember republican congress members out-voting democrat congress members by both party percentage and total vote (under a democratically-controlled house). furthermore, if you remember the governors of arkansas and alabama sending in the national guard to prevent blacks from going to school were both democrat.

no, i think you are wrong...i am pretty sure i remember republican congress members out-voting democrat congress members by both party percentage and total vote (under a democratically-controlled house). furthermore, if you remember the governors of arkansas and alabama sending in the national guard to prevent blacks from going to school were both democrat.

yeah, but johnson signed the civil rights act and said "i have just signed away the south." there was a scism in the 60's between forward thinking democrats in the north and the sons of segregation in the south. i mean, strom thurmond used to be a democrat, then chaged to a republican. if that isnt damning evidence that the parties have flipped positions, i dont know what is.

Well, do Democrats like to axe habeas corpus?

Well he's dead 140 years, so I don't understand what were worrying about. It's not like he can run for president.
Are you discriminating against the dead! Don't make me sue you!

There's only one similarity I see between the politics of the 1860's and the politics of '05:

The country is polarized and at war.

If he was alive, I would probably vote for him. I trust learned psychologists over squabbling forum-goers.

Few people tend to realise this but if Abe Lincoln were around today he would be a Democrat. No one has seemed to notice this, especially the GOP who tout Lincoln as the best president to ever serve in their platform.
Politically yes.

Morally, he'd've been a Republican. :D He was "Honest Abe" remember? ;)

Politically yes.

Morally, he'd've been a Republican. :D He was "Honest Abe" remember? ;)

you're bashing the democrats for being dishonest? have you been reading the news?

Few people tend to realise this but if Abe Lincoln were around today he would be a Democrat. No one has seemed to notice this, especially the GOP who tout Lincoln as the best president to ever serve in their platform.

And that Bird guy was a KKK guy.. so what.. we judge people from past perceptions to our new ones and we get nothing......Judge the new ones from our old ones and its the same ole story just a different tune