NationStates Jolt Archive

Source (http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050124%2F1227138038.htm&photoid=20031014NYET254)

I'm pretty sure that some people will be pulling their hair out over this

I'm glad they didn't reinstate the law, although I don't know how I feel about this case.
It depends on whether or not the woman really wouldn't have wanted to be kept alive in this case, as it doesn't seem she has a living will, it becomes tricky. But reinstating the law would have been another step back in the right to die case, and we're already far back enough.

``It's judicial homicide. They want to murder her,'' her father, Robert Schindler, said Monday. ``I have no idea what the next step will be. We're going to fight for her as much as we can fight for her. She deserves a chance.''
oh yes because living death is fucknig awesome

Hmmmmm.

Woman marries man, thus voluntarily giving him the right to make medical decisions for her should she be unable to do so herself.

Woman diets herself into a persistent vegitative state by throwing her chemical balances off to a great degree.

Husband ships her all around the country to every doctor imaginable for several years. All doctors eventually state that nothing can be done.

Having been told that she would not wish to live completely on life support, husband decides to remove the support.

Parents get all upset because they can't let go of their daughter and fight for several more years. This is obviously against the very clear wishes of their daughter, who married the man in the first place and thus wished for him to have next-of-kinship, power of attorney, etc.

Seems to me like the parents need to follow the wishes of their daughter.

what is the point in keeping someone alive if there is no hope of recovery?

i guess it's good for the hospital as they get to charge for it. What do her parents get out of fighting for it though?

-snip-
Ahh, I didn't know the whole story.
Okay, in this case, the husband clearly has it right here.

its so sad, this poor woman should have been allowed to die....last year? year before last?

Stupid parents. It's every parent's job to kill their child.

what is the point in keeping someone alive if there is no hope of recovery?

i guess it's good for the hospital as they get to charge for it. What do her parents get out of fighting for it though?

Well you have to keep in mind the fact that the husband has another woman in the picture, and the comatose woman 's parents are claiming he just wants to let her die to inherit her wealth. I wouldn't want someone to pull the plug on me, when by some crazy miracle, medical science might want to cure me. Sure being in a coma sucks but it is in my opinion still .01 percent better than total death.

Putting that type of burden [to kill a loved one voluntarily] on one's spouse, parents, siblings, WHATEVER is probably one of the worst things you can do as well. If you're capable of making the decision yourself, fine, go ahead. If you aren't, putting that type of burden to make such a choice on loved ones, is just plain wrong.

Well you have to keep in mind the fact that the husband has another woman in the picture, and the comatose woman 's parents are claiming he just wants to let her die to inherit her wealth. I wouldn't want someone to pull the plug on me, when by some crazy miracle, medical science might want to cure me. Sure being in a coma sucks but it is in my opinion still .01 percent better than total death.
so you want to keep her alive indefinately on the taxpayers money or the parents, im sure its the taxpayers by now, because there is some 1/1000000000000000 chance of her waking up? no, thats ok thanks. and medical science wont be curing jackshit until we can get medical science back on the track of caring less about their pocket books and more about trying to fucknig save people

Well you have to keep in mind the fact that the husband has another woman in the picture, and the comatose woman 's parents are claiming he just wants to let her die to inherit her wealth. I wouldn't want someone to pull the plug on me, when by some crazy miracle, medical science might want to cure me. Sure being in a coma sucks but it is in my opinion still .01 percent better than total death.

Is that a fact or just something the parents said?

ANd even so, what does that matter? She has been braindead for years and he has done all he can to help her. So IN his time being alone he has foind someone else (supposedly) and he has every right to to follow that path. That is not proof that he just wants this womans estate. A miacle cure would be nice but what are the odds of that and at what cost? This guy has a pretty hefty bill already I'm sure.

I myself would def want the plug pulled on me if I were in such a state.

so you want to keep her alive indefinately on the taxpayers money or the parents, im sure its the taxpayers by now, because there is some 1/1000000000000000 chance of her waking up? no, thats ok thanks. and medical science wont be curing jackshit until we can get medical science back on the track of caring less about their pocket books and more about trying to fucknig save people

yeah, paying a few bucks in tax money is a much greater burden, just kill em all instead. seems to be the easy way out, eh?

Well you have to keep in mind the fact that the husband has another woman in the picture, and the comatose woman 's parents are claiming he just wants to let her die to inherit her wealth.

Of course, that woman wasn't in the picture until he had already been fighting for a couple of years to carry out her wishes.

I wouldn't want someone to pull the plug on me, when by some crazy miracle, medical science might want to cure me. Sure being in a coma sucks but it is in my opinion still .01 percent better than total death.

This is your personal opinion, which you should make known to whoever will make medical decisions for you. Many others disagree.

Is that a fact or just something the parents said?


I think the husband openly admits a desire to wed another woman. The wanting the wife's inheritance is just something the parents are claiming. By the way if you really want to die, do it right and get a living will, which instructs the doctors want to do, its kind of an important.

Putting that type of burden [to kill a loved one voluntarily] on one's spouse, parents, siblings, WHATEVER is probably one of the worst things you can do as well. If you're capable of making the decision yourself, fine, go ahead. If you aren't, putting that type of burden to make such a choice on loved ones, is just plain wrong.

I'm not sure what you're saying here - are you suggesting that she should've somehow miraculously kept herself from being in the state she is now in?

This brings up an interesting quesiton.

Has anyone here seen where they are headed with nanotechnology with regards to medicine? Machines thousands of times smaller than a blood cell that can find disease or damaged cells and eradicate or repair it.

I don't know what causes braind-deadness (I'm braindead and cannot think of a better way to say this), but do you think that nanotechnology could be used for this as well?

yeah, paying a few bucks in tax money is a much greater burden, just kill em all instead. seems to be the easy way out, eh?
and everyone misses the POINT. her parents are nore longer her caretakers and legal guardians, her husband has all the legal choices to her, after YEARS he has decided to take her off life support, that is no guarantee she will die, but she probably will, however there is no reason to continue having the taxpayers foot the bill indefinately

and oh wait, aarnt you a republican cuz if so you HATE paying more taxes so we can have social programs that arnt shit, but hey some guy wants to pull his wifes plug after years of being braindead, BRAINDEAD, and now you are all for paying mroe taxes
woo woo

This brings up an interesting quesiton.

Has anyone here seen where they are headed with nanotechnology with regards to medicine? Machines thousands of times smaller than a blood cell that can find disease or damaged cells and eradicate or repair it.

I don't know what causes braind-deadness (I'm braindead and cannot think of a better way to say this), but do you think that nanotechnology could be used for this as well?
The kind of technology your talk about is 30 years away at the very least, its not really helpful for this situation. But you're right, nanotechnolgy is an incredible field. It has nearly limitless potential in medicine and engineering.

and everyone misses the POINT. her parents are nore longer her caretakers and legal guardians, her husband has all the legal choices to her, after YEARS he has decided to take her off life support, that is no guarantee she will die, but she probably will, however there is no reason to continue having the taxpayers foot the bill indefinately

and oh wait, aarnt you a republican cuz if so you HATE paying more taxes so we can have social programs that arnt shit, but hey some guy wants to pull his wifes plug after years of being braindead, BRAINDEAD, and now you are all for paying mroe taxes
woo woo

I'm not a Republican...

Source (http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050124%2F1227138038.htm&photoid=20031014NYET254)

I'm pretty sure that some people will be pulling their hair out over this
So they can now remove her tube?

A sad day in America... *shakes head*

I'm not sure what you're saying here - are you suggesting that she should've somehow miraculously kept herself from being in the state she is now in?

No, I'm saying that to put such a burden (to make that choice to pull the plug) is pretty wrong. Honestly, I really don't care if they pull the plug or not, Im not going to be one of the protesters, but I do disagree with doctor-assisted suicide in most cases.

The kind of technology your talk about is 30 years away at the very least, its not really helpful for this situation. But you're right, nanotechnolgy is an incredible field. It has nearly limitless potential in medicine and engineering.


I know that it is decades away, and I didn't actually mean for this specific case. I should have been clearer.

What I was wondering if nanotechnology would be helpful in situations such as this. What causes one to be braindead and what could nanomachines do in order to correct it? One of the things about medical nanotechnology which impresses me greatly is that they use the bodys natural fuel to run.

What scares me about nanotechnology is what the military could do with it *shudder*

I'm not a Republican...
the first still applies

I know that it is decades away, and I didn't actually mean for this specific case. I should have been clearer.

What I was wondering if nanotechnology would be helpful in situations such as this. What causes one to be braindead and what could nanomachines do in order to correct it? One of the things about medical nanotechnology which impresses me greatly is that they use the bodys natural fuel to run.

What scares me about nanotechnology is what the military could do with it *shudder*
I think this is more of a case for stem cells, though I'm not a biomedical researcher so I'm not sure.

As for the dangers, there are potential consequnces for every new technolgy developed. The old sci-fi staple is a "grey-goo" scenario, where an unstoppable mass on nanomachines convert all matter they come in contact with into nanomachines too. I guess its just a matter of developing the technolgy with intelligent safeguards. It may even turn into the ultimate non-lethal combat method.

It may even turn into the ultimate non-lethal combat method.
Problem being some whacko will probably want it to be the ultimate lethal weapon too. One of the problems with the whole grey goo thing is that some mad genius might decided it would be fun to destroy everything, and purposely create something to. Damn. So, I guess we need to keep better tabs on our whackos.
:D

The kind of technology your talk about is 30 years away at the very least, its not really helpful for this situation. But you're right, nanotechnolgy is an incredible field. It has nearly limitless potential in medicine and engineering.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of what you read about nanotechnology is still so theoretical, we don't even know if it might ever be possible. A lot more of it is junk science. It takes quite a while to sift through all the garbage.

I actually met someone who plans on having his head frozen because he figures nanotechnology will eventually bring him back. And this idiot is a professor at a technical university!

I actually met someone who plans on having his head frozen because he figures nanotechnology will eventually bring him back. And this idiot is a professor at a technical university!
There are plenty of people that are all for cryogenics...
Just look at the transhumanists, half of them are signed up with Alcor, I'd bet.
It's a possibility that they could be revived if frozen properly, but if it ever happens, it'll be really far off, and that's assuming that nanotech isn't junk.
I'd rather not have my life prolonged like that anyway.

There are plenty of people that are all for cryogenics...
Just look at the transhumanists, half of them are signed up with Alcor, I'd bet.
It's a possibility that they could be revived if frozen properly, but if it ever happens, it'll be really far off, and that's assuming that nanotech isn't junk.
I'd rather not have my life prolonged like that anyway.

That's exactly the problem. We know how to cryopreserve a few select tissues. However, every single individual tissue requires a vastly different freezing procedure. Anyone who is willing to pay that much money for an across the board freezing process is simply wasting their money.

There is much debate about exactly how "brain dead" Terri is - the only life support she is on is a feeding tube - no machine makes her breath, she is not paralysed- and there are those that say that if the husaband would allow the necessary physical therapy she might not need a feeding tube.

As it stands right now Terri will starve to death, or as it happens more quickly,-die of dehydration. Neither is a pleasant way to die.

The husband ( I spit on him! ) wants her to die so he can have a legal relationship with his bimbo.

The husband ( I spit on him! ) wants her to die so he can have a legal relationship with his bimbo.
Well, judging by the fact that he's spent a few years of his own time trying to cure her, I seriously doubt that that's the reason he wants to let her die.
It sounds to me like the parents are just spiteful.

There is much debate about exactly how "brain dead" Terri is - the only life support she is on is a feeding tube - no machine makes her breath, she is not paralysed- and there are those that say that if the husaband would allow the necessary physical therapy she might not need a feeding tube.

As it stands right now Terri will starve to death, or as it happens more quickly,-die of dehydration. Neither is a pleasant way to die.

The husband ( I spit on him! ) wants her to die so he can have a legal relationship with his bimbo.
yes because anyone not staying single their entire life while their wife/husband is a vegetable is a complete asshole

The husband ( I spit on him! ) wants her to die so he can have a legal relationship with his bimbo.
Really? I think he just wants her to die so he can have the life insurance money, or something like that.

Source (http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050124%2F1227138038.htm&photoid=20031014NYET254)

I'm pretty sure that some people will be pulling their hair out over this


i agree with the decision to repeal the law. what governor bush did although i would generally support him was wrong. he should not have involved the government in that way. his place is not to make laws or try to interfere in the lives of private citizens and i also think it is the husbands choice not the parents. but if the parents will take care of her and pay for her treatment i think the husband should divorce her not end the life support just so he can have the insurance money.

There is much debate about exactly how "brain dead" Terri is - the only life support she is on is a feeding tube - no machine makes her breath, she is not paralysed- and there are those that say that if the husaband would allow the necessary physical therapy she might not need a feeding tube.

As it stands right now Terri will starve to death, or as it happens more quickly,-die of dehydration. Neither is a pleasant way to die.

The husband ( I spit on him! ) wants her to die so he can have a legal relationship with his bimbo.
if all he wanted was a legal marriage to his current girlfriend all he would have to do is sign over rights to her parents

he is trying tohave her wishes followed. what more could ANYONE want of a man but that he be willing to fight for years to make sure you died the way you wanted to? how many men have that kind of dedication to their wives?

Really? I think he just wants her to die so he can have the life insurance money, or something like that.
there IS no insurance money. geez my son was in the hospital for half an hour getting stitches in his head and it cost over $1000, how much do you think it costs to have her in care for YEARS. any insurance money is long gone

if all he wanted was a legal marriage to his current girlfriend all he would have to do is sign over rights to her parents

he is trying tohave her wishes followed. what more could ANYONE want of a man but that he be willing to fight for years to make sure you died the way you wanted to? how many men have that kind of dedication to their wives?


i agree, but only if she has one of those living will things that stated that her wishes were to die. if not i think he should just give the care to her parents.

there IS no insurance money. geez my son was in the hospital for half an hour getting stitches in his head and it cost over $1000, how much do you think it costs to have her in care for YEARS. any insurance money is long gone


thats true,
but still if she didnt have a living will then the husband should hand the care over to her parents.

There is much debate about exactly how "brain dead" Terri is - the only life support she is on is a feeding tube - no machine makes her breath, she is not paralysed- and there are those that say that if the husaband would allow the necessary physical therapy she might not need a feeding tube.

"Those" basically equate to her parents and a single doctor who knows nothing about neurology.

Every neurologist Terri has been to has stated that the chances of recovery are pretty much zero. As for the physical therapy, she was doing that for years - and nothing.

As it stands right now Terri will starve to death, or as it happens more quickly,-die of dehydration. Neither is a pleasant way to die.

Of course, she won't even know, as she is completely devoid of self-awareness.

The husband ( I spit on him! ) wants her to die so he can have a legal relationship with his bimbo.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, considering that this fight has been going on since before he met her. The years he spent shuttling her around the country taking her to every single available specialist don't mean anything either.

thats true,
but still if she didnt have a living will then the husband should hand the care over to her parents.

Yeah, so that her wishes aren't carried out.

Personally, if my husband knew what I wanted, and my parents tried to fight him - I wouldn't want him to sign over my care to them out of convenience.

Yeah, so that her wishes aren't carried out.

Personally, if my husband knew what I wanted, and my parents tried to fight him - I wouldn't want him to sign over my care to them out of convenience.


i see your point and it is a good one.
but without a living will or other document like that there is no way to prove her wishes

thats true,
but still if she didnt have a living will then the husband should hand the care over to her parents.
i agree it would haev been better if she had had a living will

but how many 20something women have a living will at all let alone one that specifies that if they lapse into an persistant vegetative state they would want feeding tubes removed?

its my understanding that if you really want the living will to be enforceable it has to be just that specific.

i agree it would haev been better if she had had a living will

but how many 20something women have a living will at all let alone one that specifies that if they lapse into an persistant vegetative state they would want feeding tubes removed?

its my understanding that if you really want the living will to be enforceable it has to be just that specific.


good point. and yes i dont think many people especially ones that young have a living will but still.

i see your point and it is a good one.
but without a living will or other document like that there is no way to prove her wishes

She married her husband - a clear demonstration that her wishes were for him to have next-of-kinship and power of attorney.

thats true,
but still if she didnt have a living will then the husband should hand the care over to her parents.

Why? Legally, Michael is the legal guardian. Its one of the automatic bennies of marriage. He is not divorced from Terri. (granted, if the parents hadn't so blackened the reputation of Michael, he might have been more willing to do so, but that is a different issue.)

I do not blame him at all for moving on with his life. Terri isn't gonna 'wake up'. Yes, he is still technically married to Terri.

The parents are NOT the legal guardians of Terri. The hubby is. (whether or not you think that Michael is less than fitting for that position because he is living with another woman right now is different issue.)

Whoah, thread necromancy, thread necromancy. Some one call the cops

Really? I think he just wants her to die so he can have the life insurance money, or something like that.

WHAT insurance money? (hint, it was a malpractice settlement) Its GONE. Or so close to gone that there is practically nothing left.

Terri has been residing in one of the better class rest/hospice homes for the last 14 plus years. No bedsores. That is evidence of how well run the place she is in has been. That costs money, and lots of it. Plus, a lot of the completely ineffectual procedures that Michaal tried having done to and for Terri in the first few years are SOO experimental/ cutting edge, that the treatments would NOT have been covered by insurance anyway.

-snip-
Gravedigging threads isn't a good idea

Gravedigging threads isn't a good idea

Perhaps you are right. What most people wish not to confront is the fact that everyone will eventualy die. You, every one who posted here, every one you've ever known will die, and their spirit shall leave this earth.
To live forever, one must accept God.
Back to the topic, her husband is the head of her household. Her light is gone. It is time to let go.

My mother has appointed my her next of kin, over my brothers. She knows I will carry out her wishes regardless of my personal wishes. Though I don't have a living will, I have made sure my family is aware of my wishes. After this, I think I will get one. I would never want to go on living like that.