NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/21/homework.suit.ap/index.html

Yeah, homework always caused me undue stress too!

Note that honors classes are generally voluntary. Thus, the student voluntarily took on the extra work.

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Is this about that punk who sued to ban summer homework? That kid rules. He must be like a legend in his school.

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Is this about that punk who sued to ban summer homework? That kid rules. He must be like a legend in his school.

Well, it generally is the whiny little slackers who get to be legends in high schools across the country. =)

Hmmm.... This is a tricky one, in my opinion.

On one hand, it is an honors program, so more should be expected of him than in a regular pre-calculus class. On the other hand, too much work is bad for an individual, any individual. How much is "too much" will vary from person-to-person, but if you work too much, then your mental state will suffer. There's also the question of whether more challenging work simply means more work.

I do note that there are no descriptions of the work required during the school year and of the work required over the summer, so there's very little information to gauge any of this on.

Overall, I'm against the suit. After some (admittedly brief) thought, I think summer work shouldn't be required, but neither should it be abolished. Some students may be able to take the workload and this should be allowed to vary from student-to-student.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

On one hand, it is an honors program
I was loaded down with so much honors/ap hw over this past summer it wasnt funny.... so why should this little SOB get special treatment?

Well, it generally is the whiny little slackers who get to be legends in high schools across the country. =)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/21/homework.suit.ap/index.html

That link might work better. I couldn't get the other link to work. That kid is so going to end up a trillionaire lawyer. He'll probably be the first lawyer ever to sucessfully sue McDonalds for making people fat in a 1 billion person class action lawsuit, and then he'll get bored and sue all the people like you that make fun of him on the internet for libel.

Their loss.

I was loaded down with so much honors/ap hw over this past summer it wasnt funny.... so why should this little SOB get special treatment?

Note, however, that you will likely graduate college sooner for all of that work. This guy probably won't make it through freshman year of college (if he attempts to go), as he'll be too busy whining about how hard it all is.

Well, it generally is the whiny little slackers who get to be legends in high schools across the country. =)

Sad isn't it. If he wants honors, he should have to live up to the standard for honors. I'm sick of lowering standards so more people can pass or pass more easily. Education is supposed to be about learning material. Either you do or you don't. If you don't, you fail. It isn't rocket science. And, if education isn't your strong suit, there is no shame in that, it just means different career choices.

Sad isn't it. If he wants honors, he should have to live up to the standard for honors. I'm sick of lowering standards so more people can pass or pass more easily. Education is supposed to be about learning material. Either you do or you don't. If you don't, you fail. It isn't rocket science. And, if education isn't your strong suit, there is no shame in that, it just means different career choices.

Wow, we finally find something we absolutely agree on. =)

Me three. Give me a friggin' break. If he wants to bitch about AP classload, let the dude take a CP class! But no, then he loses the precious bonus point on his GPA and his mollycoddled life is ruined. What a little bitch.

I hope the district sues for their legal expenses.

Me three. Give me a friggin' break. If he wants to bitch about AP classload, let the dude take a CP class! But no, then he loses the precious bonus point on his GPA and his mollycoddled life is ruined. What a little bitch.

I hope the district sues for their legal expenses.
Pre-calc isn't ap, AP Calc AB and BC (Calc one and two, I think) are.

That said, this is rediculous, quit whining and do the work or leave the class and take an easier course.

i would pity him but hes taking a fucking honors class. like if he fucked up algebra 2 and had to do summer school i would care, but hes going to sign up for an honros class then bitch? woo woo here comes the clue train, honors normally means your going to have or should at the very least expect a higher workload and harder class structure

Pre-calc isn't ap, AP Calc AB and BC (Calc one and two, I think) are.

That said, this is rediculous, quit whining and do the work or leave the class and take an easier course.

Yer right. It's just honors. But he's on track to be bitching about the Calc workload next summer :D

I do like the fact that he's fighting against summer homework, but really he should have checked to see if there was any before taking the class.

i would pity him but hes taking a fucking honors class. like if he fucked up algebra 2 and had to do summer school i would care, but hes going to sign up for an honros class then bitch? woo woo here comes the clue train, honors normally means your going to have or should at the very least expect a higher workload and harder class structure
Yeah I guess he sucks if he is an ap student. It would be much much cooler if he was one of those kids who takes only shop, gym, english, and 5 study halls and he sued the school because he didn't want to read the first chapter of Huckleberry Finn.

i agree with him

its ridiculous to require so much work in a high school class that it cant be fit into a 180 day school calendar.

summer vacation is a time for doing things other than highschool. getting a first job, travelling. learning about life.

he shouldnt have to choose between a quality education and having a life for a couple months a year.

I do like the fact that he's fighting against summer homework, but really he should have checked to see if there was any before taking the class.

You are a young student, aren't you? Being lazy all summer and not doing any work is poor conditioning for the future and doesn't help you to be prepared for an advanced class, thus making the class itself less advanced (and/or making you fail it).

i agree with him

its ridiculous to require so much work in a high school class that it cant be fit into a 180 day school calendar.

Yeah, we should structure all classes to the lowest common denominator. That'll really help make our education better.

I think we should stop letting teachers give any homework over weekends too. Weekends are for doing things other than high school.

he shouldnt have to choose between a quality education and having a life for a couple months a year.

Without work, there is no such thing as a quality education. It isn't like someone can just open up your brain and scoop knowledge in.

Note also that, if a little bit of extra work over the summer really causes this guy so much stress that he can't have a life, he shouldn't be in an honors class in the first place.

technically you don't have to go to an advanced course. I did and read a book called sophies world which was funny. Then i had to answer questions and it was worth 10% of my grade. Some didn't do it. Any way it is math which is easy. 5! is 5*4*3*2 which is 120. Not hard. THen in the first semester halfway through i switched to honors english since i was smarter then my teacher and my old consuler screwed up my schedule :mad:. So i had 2 weeks to read 2 books and write about them and the day i went to class i took a test. Its not hard especially if you dont try like me. He is a crybaby. I would be the defendant's lawyer and go like this

Judge this is stupid. The work was voluntary, the course was voluntary and there is no proof that he had a headache or that the vacation itself caused the headache. Anyway he should have thought of the work before he wanted to take the course or plan a vacation.

What a crybaby

Sad isn't it. If he wants honors, he should have to live up to the standard for honors.

This issue is that the bar keeps getting raised. Back when my father was in school, you didn't even need to go to college to make a living, now it's almost required. College entrance requirements just keep rising, as do the mandatory required courses in high and middle school. You do have to work hard to suceed, but it's getting ridiculous, because schools keep moving the finish line on the proverbial track of education. More stress, more workload taking more of our time, so much information shoved in our heads so fast that after we cram for the tests on top of the 2 essays, the group project and the daily homework, we forget what we were meant to learn.

That said, I support this kid 100%. Someone needed to take a stand and say "you know, enough already. We work our asses off to meet ever rising requirements for half of every year from age 4-5 to our twenties. Keep your hands off our summers." He did.

i agree with him

its ridiculous to require so much work in a high school class that it cant be fit into a 180 day school calendar.

summer vacation is a time for doing things other than highschool. getting a first job, travelling. learning about life.

he shouldnt have to choose between a quality education and having a life for a couple months a year.

365-180 = 185

I'm not american so not fully versed on how the education system works but my simple maths has brought up an interesting point i feel. Education not only requires work but also continuety, its all very well slogging your guts out for the school terms but if you then do no work for the remainder of the year (more of the year than you did work for) then you are not going to retain the skills and knowledge that you picked up. The only way teachers can ensure that you do this is by forcing you to hand something in the end. . .thats called homework.

Im getting sick and tired of people whining because they dont get to do what they WANT to do because of things the HAVE to do. Welcome to life, its not all cake and candy.

Sad isn't it. If he wants honors, he should have to live up to the standard for honors. I'm sick of lowering standards so more people can pass or pass more easily. Education is supposed to be about learning material. Either you do or you don't. If you don't, you fail. It isn't rocket science. And, if education isn't your strong suit, there is no shame in that, it just means different career choices.

new york state raised standards in chem by
taking out a chapter
giving you a packet which you could use for all tests including regentses that contains all you need to know

Back when my father was in school, you didn't even need to go to college to make a living, now it's almost required.

This is unfortunately true, and has caused a *lowering* of the bar, not a raising of it.

College entrance requirements just keep rising, as do the mandatory required courses in high and middle school.

College entrance requirements have actually been lowered, and the work necessary to stay in college continues to be lowered. The reasom is that people have gotten this crazy notion into their heads that every single person should be able to go to and graduate from college. They have forgotten that it is called "higher education" for a reason.

That said, I support this kid 100%. Someone needed to take a stand and say "you know, enough already. We work our asses off to meet ever rising requirements for half of every year from age 4-5 to our twenties. Keep your hands off our summers." He did.

If he didn't want to do summer work, he never should've signed up for the class.

Wow, we finally find something we absolutely agree on. =)


Well, you know, even us heads stuck in the sand creations are not completely devoid of common sense. Besides it had to happen sooner or later. I don't think any two humans can disagree about everything.

This issue is that the bar keeps getting raised. Back when my father was in school, you didn't even need to go to college to make a living, now it's almost required. College entrance requirements just keep rising, as do the mandatory required courses in high and middle school. You do have to work hard to suceed, but it's getting ridiculous, because schools keep moving the finish line on the proverbial track of education. More stress, more workload taking more of our time, so much information shoved in our heads so fast that after we cram for the tests on top of the 2 essays, the group project and the daily homework, we forget what we were meant to learn.

That said, I support this kid 100%. Someone needed to take a stand and say "you know, enough already. We work our asses off to meet ever rising requirements for half of every year from age 4-5 to our twenties. Keep your hands off our summers." He did.

school isnt to tough. All you need is 3 sci and math credits 4 social studies and english credits 1 art 3 foreign languages and 4 gym. If school is to hard for you then get involved in science experimentation or become a farmer

Folks, honors classes are enriched classes. If you don't want the extra work, don't fight to get into them.

I have had students complain bitterly that they are honors material when their work patently shows that they are not (ie, not handing in work on time, not coming to class on time, not doing homework, doing the absolute crappiest minimum) and blame yours truly for 'keeping them out of honors'.

Occasionally, if they or their parents make a big enough fuss, the Admin will place them in honors regardless of the fact they should not be there.

Then when they fail the class, they whine to the teacher that THEY'RE IN HONORS, THEY CAN'T FAIL.

One of my students had a far healthier attitude about the whole thing. He was handing in uber-creative work, getting above 90s in everything, and asking for extra credit. I suggested Honors English might be more suitable.

He told me he'd BEEN in Honors, and requested to be taken out. He couldn't deal with all of the attitudes and complaints over every tiny assignment. Given the comments I've read on RateYourTeachers.com from students about the AP and Honors teachers in my school, I have to agree. Many students have an unrealistic idea about what honors means. One actually commented that homework was for idiots, and that in college there were never any assigned reading or writing assignments.

I think I nearly ruptured my spleen laughing at that one.

There are many students who seem to think they "deserve" the Honors classes without doing what is expected of them. You know what? Take the normal course level. If you're not willing to put in extra time, take the general course. What will look better: an A in the general course, or a C in an honors?

i agree with him

its ridiculous to require so much work in a high school class that it cant be fit into a 180 day school calendar.

summer vacation is a time for doing things other than highschool. getting a first job, travelling. learning about life.

he shouldnt have to choose between a quality education and having a life for a couple months a year.

Heck, why not just pass out degrees and make class attendance, tests and homework optional. I'm sure that will turn out the best trained people in the world :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah I guess he sucks if he is an ap student. It would be much much cooler if he was one of those kids who takes only shop, gym, english, and 5 study halls and he sued the school because he didn't want to read the first chapter of Huckleberry Finn.
gee thanks for being an asshole and screwing over my point because you want to be an ass

i would care more if some one took a normal class and tryed as hard as the y could then got fucked up during the summer for failngi than have some oen take an elective and fail, AN ELECTIVE, and then sure the school

you know what he needs?
http://maddox.xmission.com/crybaby.gif

Holy shit, they can give you homework over the summer?

new york state raised standards in chem by
taking out a chapter
giving you a packet which you could use for all tests including regentses that contains all you need to know

The irony of this post is beyond words.
They are Regents exams, by the way.

Holy shit, they can give you homework over the summer?

If you take a voluntary class. If you don't want to do the work, don't take the class.

What exactly is an honors class and what is it good for?

Occasionally, if they or their parents make a big enough fuss, the Admin will place them in honors regardless of the fact they should not be there.

Then when they fail the class, they whine to the teacher that THEY'RE IN HONORS, THEY CAN'T FAIL.

...
There are many students who seem to think they "deserve" the Honors classes without doing what is expected of them. You know what? Take the normal course level. If you're not willing to put in extra time, take the general course. What will look better: an A in the general course, or a C in an honors?


Unfortunately, we see these types in college as well. At at least one institution I know of, TA's in training are told how to deal with students who say "You can't fail me! My parents are paying for this course!"

What exactly is an honors class and what is it good for?

Helps with college applications to specific programs as well as just improving ones knowledge of a given subject. It pushes students to strive for excellence rather than mediocrity/doing just enough to get by.

make the class as hard as you want DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR

there is more to life than schoolwork and the kinds of kids who take AP classes are just the ones who need to have something in their lives besides school.

making it necessary to spend the whole summer doing school work is not good for the kids forced to do it.

make the class as hard as you want DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR

there is more to life than schoolwork and the kinds of kids who take AP classes are just the ones who need to have something in their lives besides school.

making it necessary to spend the whole summer doing school work is not good for the kids forced to do it.

You mean like out here in the real world, that we're supposed to be preparing them for, where no one has to go to work every day? :rolleyes:

make the class as hard as you want DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR

there is more to life than schoolwork and the kinds of kids who take AP classes are just the ones who need to have something in their lives besides school.

making it necessary to spend the whole summer doing school work is not good for the kids forced to do it.

Do you honestly think that the homework from one class really takes the "whole summer" unless you don't have what it takes to be in the class anyways - *especially* in high school?

Meanwhile, in many classes, leaving all of the work to during the school year would ultimately mean that they couldn't get through as much, thus resulting in a class that wasn't really an honors class at all.

making it necessary to spend the whole summer doing school work is not good for the kids forced to do it.

Everything in moderation.

You are correct, spending the entire summer doing homework is not good however the aim of this suit is to get summer homework banned which is a ideal driven by lazyness rather than what is best for students.

What exactly is an honors class and what is it good for?
Harder class. Great for college resume padding. (I don't know how to make an accent mark)

make the class as hard as you want DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR

there is more to life than schoolwork and the kinds of kids who take AP classes are just the ones who need to have something in their lives besides school.

making it necessary to spend the whole summer doing school work is not good for the kids forced to do it.

They are not FORCED.
They ASK TO JOIN THIS VOLUNTARY CLASS.
If they do not want to do the extra work, then do not take the higher level class.

That's like me saying to my boss, "You know, I don't HAVE a Masters Degree, and I don't INTEND on getting a Masters Degree, but PAY ME as if I have the extra education that guy over there actually has."

i honestly believe that kids who take all AP classes in wisconsin have very little life left over for fun. they are not ADULTS who have to go to work every day whether they are in school or not, they are teens who need to learn how to LIVE, not just how to do calculus.

if that means they cant take college classes in highschool then its better to not get the credits than to be forced to live a life of study only.

Agreed. If they do not want to put in the extra time, work, and effort, then they should take the general classes.

i agree with katinistan if i spelt it right. Honors is the same as regents but you learn an extra chapter or two. An example of ap euro test question
What country was the thorn in napoleans side

i agree with katinistan if i spelt it right. Honors is the same as regents but you learn an extra chapter or two. An example of ap euro test question
What country was the thorn in napoleans side
Spain?

This sue-all culture which has developed over the past few years, especially in the US, is a testemant to the embarassing idiocy and selfishness which blights modern-day society.

the Dutch remained a constant thorn in Napoleon's side

source:http://www.fredrika.se/utbildning/erika/samhalle/projekt/peace/napoleon_netherlands.html

There are those who can, and those who take a little longer. Summer school is for those who take a little longer to grasp an academic subject.

So, where is the problem?

If anyone takes on more than they can chew, the solution is obvious. Spit it out it and chew on something smaller. ;)

i honestly believe that kids who take all AP classes in wisconsin have very little life left over for fun. they are not ADULTS who have to go to work every day whether they are in school or not, they are teens who need to learn how to LIVE, not just how to do calculus.

I wasn't in Wisconsin, but I did take every AP class offered at my high school, and all the honors classes as well. On top of that, I worked a part-time job, was a member of the marching band (and concert band), participated in just about every high school club I could get my hands on, hung out with friends pretty much every weekend.

If classes are taking up a student's entire life, they shouldn't be attempting classes so far above their heads.

if that means they cant take college classes in highschool then its better to not get the credits than to be forced to live a life of study only.

Again, if taking a few AP classes results in a "life of study only," the kid isn't cut out for the classes and shouldn't be in them in the first place.

I wasn't in Wisconsin, but I did take every AP class offered at my high school, and all the honors classes as well. On top of that, I worked a part-time job, was a member of the marching band (and concert band), participated in just about every high school club I could get my hands on, hung out with friends pretty much every weekend.


yeah, i took every AP class in my high school except AP Bio (ironically, the subject that most applies to my chosen career path), i worked, i volunteered 10 hours a week, i built sets for the theatre, and i had an active social life. i don't think anybody should take classes that consume their life, and there will be some people for whom that means passing up on full AP course loads.

Oh no! You have to work to succeed!

But I don't want to! [/whine]

But I don't want to! [/whine]

Then you can just sue your state!! Then they'll hand you whatever you want without doing the work! =)

Then you can just sue your state!! Then they'll hand you whatever you want without doing the work! =)

Oh! Okie ... schweet.

I think the kid has no case. He says he's stressed because he had to do homework and he had a job. Clearly, it's not the homework the problem; it's the combination of the two. Hell, why not sue the camp where he worked because his job caused him undue stress because he had to work while having homework from school?

The state should counter-sue to get back the money they'll loose in court fees and lawyer's pay.

As if the kid would win anyway.
What a retard. I mean, i get physics and chemistry every night, which usually takes me about two hours each, plus orchestra practice on mondays and wednesdays which goes all afternoon, plus Army every tuesday night from 7pm until 11pm, plus surf-lifesaving every weekend, from 8am-6pm.

I wish i could sue somebody :p

As if the kid would win anyway.
What a retard. I mean, i get physics and chemistry every night, which usually takes me about two hours each, plus orchestra practice on mondays and wednesdays which goes all afternoon, plus Army every tuesday night from 7pm until 11pm, plus surf-lifesaving every weekend, from 8am-6pm.

I wish i could sue somebody :p

Yeah, us Americans tend to be wimps, particularly when it comes to self denial, self control and self discipline. All you have to do is look at our weight problem to see that. Of course, McDonald's and advertising are to blame for that :rolleyes: . I couldn't have anything to do with what we chose, their holding guns to our heads don't you know... :rolleyes:

I remember having to write an essay for AP history class every day. Argh! I hate essays. They strongly resemble work.

This issue is that the bar keeps getting raised. That said, I support this kid 100%. Someone needed to take a stand and say "you know, enough already. We work our asses off to meet ever rising requirements for half of every year from age 4-5 to our twenties. Keep your hands off our summers." He did.

I have a collection of textbooks from the late 1800's and early 1900's. The English used in them is beyond anything I ever even saw in college. The math was also several degrees higher per grade than is generally taught today. When I took Eng 1&2 in college there were people in it who were taking it for the 3rd time. The teacher had to go down to elementary english just so these people could keep up. One of them was pre-law.

The only people who think the bar is being raised are the students who don't want to do the work.

The really sad thing about this topic is, once they're in and out of college, where they went or GPA really means nothing in the real world....

All that work for a footnote for the first 25% of one's life.

Does anyone know the kid's email? I happen to live in Milwaukee, and go to a much harder school.