NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A29400-2005Jan22?language=printer




BAGHDAD -- The day after the soldiers came, Imaad ordered his mother to go through her refrigerator and pantry and throw out all the cheese that had been made outside Iraq. He went around and collected any images of Westerners in the house, threw them in a pile and burned them until they were floating bits of ash. He struck his mother repeatedly and forbade her to watch foreign news or movie channels on their new television.

The Americans were "the devil," Imaad ranted.
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Imaad said they were startled by a loud banging at the door. He went quickly to open it. When he did, Imaad said, there were about a dozen U.S. soldiers standing with their guns pointed at his head.

Imaad and his mother said the soldiers rushed in, ordering them to sit together while they searched the house. "You look poor," Imaad recalled one of the soldiers saying. "Why?"

Imaad answered in English: "I have not been able to find a job, although I'm a graduate of the College of Arts." His heart was pounding, Imaad said. His mother, a chatty widow who adores her son, sat next to him, shaking.

The soldiers went to search his bedroom. He heard laughing, and then they called for him, he said. Imaad went to his room and saw that the soldiers had found several magazines he kept hidden from his mother. They had pictures of girls in swimsuits and erotic poses. Imaad said the soldiers spread the magazines on his bed and put his Koran in the middle.

"This is a good match," Imaad said one of the soldiers told him.

"It was a nightmare," he said. "I will never forget those bad soldiers when they put the Koran among the magazines."

Within 20 minutes, the soldiers left without arresting him or his mother. While the soldiers went next door to search his neighbor's house, Imaad began to slap his mother, he said. "The American people are devils," Um Imaad recalled her son repeating.

Tsk, as fake as they get.

Well it appears to come from a valid news source, so the article seems genuine. As for the story itself, I guess there is no real way to know if its true or not. Not to knock the military or anything, but its not too hard to believe.

Well it appears to come from a valid news source, so the article seems genuine. As for the story itself, I guess there is no real way to know if its true or not. Not to knock the military or anything, but its not too hard to believe.
I just have a hard time believing the guy's reaction.

I dunno I wasn't there.

.. its not too hard to believe.welcome to the Battle for Iraqi Hearts and Minds.

Did i read this correctly?

The american soldiers put the residents erotic magazines next to the residents copy the of the Koran and therefore the americans are evil? what a hypocrite! Personally i dont see how this story has any place even being published, it seems as though its just one mans attempt to divert attention away from the fact that his mother found out he has some dirty pictures.

Sure we have the american soldiers seeming to make fun of this citizen but seeing as they were searching for offensive weaponry it must have been quite a relief on their part to find the worst thing in the house to be a few dirty pictures. I think the only thing that comes from this article is that the american soldiers havent been educated as to the importance of the holy book to these people as an item in itself, but then they have more important things to be dealing with.

I just have a hard time believing the guy's reaction.
his action is ludicrous and unforgivable and the action of the soldiers is reprehensible and just as unforgivable

I just have a hard time believing the guy's reaction.

They live in a misogynist society where women are considered inferior and subservient to men, so his reaction seems believable to me.

I think this guy Imaad is reprehensible, dumb, hypocrite and should be ashamed of himself. It's not clear whether the soldiers purposefuly placed the Koran next to the girly mags to cause shame or simply left things were they threw them and as was more convenient to them.

Whats a Koran?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A29400-2005Jan22?language=printer
Now people are going to endlessly play partisan games about what happened.

When you take some teenage hick halfway around the world, make him dodge bullets all day long without armor, and then do house-to-house searches, he might have a tendency to do obnoxious things. Sometimes he'll do brutal things like steal and rape, sometimes he'll do things he doesn't see as that serious but which will destroy someone else's life. This is true of all wars, it's one of the reasons we try to avoid them.

But finding all those WMDs - not to mention Osama - made it all worth it. Oh wait...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A29400-2005Jan22?language=printer

Seems to fall under "diziformazion."

Whats a Koran? Really Im not kidding!

Ok how can any news paper make a mistake this simple!

1. Imaad has been put outside the "s
2 "said one... told him" !

There is no mistake there.

Ok how can any news paper make a mistake this simple!
Quote:
"This is a good match," Imaad said one of the soldiers told him.

1. Imaad has been put outside the "s
2 "said one... told him" !


It isnt a mistake, in its current state it makes sense. Imaad is reporting that what the soldier told him was "This is a good match", its phrased such because the paper cannot be sure that the soldier actually said this.

Whats a Koran? Really Im not kidding!

The Moslem holy book. Equivalent to the Christian Bible. Also spelled "Qur'an".

Ok how can any news paper make a mistake this simple!

1. Imaad has been put outside the "s
2 "said one... told him" !
It's good grammar, but it could have been clearer: "According to Imaad one of the soldiers then told him 'This is a good match.' "

Whats a Koran? Really Im not kidding!
The main Muslim holy book

oppsie! :headbang:

Whats a Koran? Really Im not kidding!
The holy book of Islam. It was dictated to Mohammad by Angel Gabriel, who got it straight from God. Then Mohammad told the verses to an scribe who put them on paper.

The holy book of Islam. It was dictated to Mohammad by Angel Gabriel, who got it straight from God. Then Mohammad told the verses to an scribe who put them on paper.
I think we can all agree that it's the Muslim holy book; your definition is a matter of opinion.

I think we can all agree that it's the Muslim holy book; your definition is a matter of opinion.
That's what Muslims believe. Whether that's true or not is an entirely different matter.

I think we can all agree that it's the Muslim holy book; your definition is a matter of opinion.
thats the mythology, why should you give a fuck if he elaborates? are you gonig to bitch if a christian starts talknig about the bible as a holy book written by people who were descended upon by the holy spirit and writing gods words?

The Moslem holy book. Equivalent to the Christian Bible. Also spelled "Qur'an".

Oh, now this makes a whole lot more sence, I should have known that but oh well.

If that guy really is telling the truth, thats discraceful. The soldiers wonder why they are getting there heads blown off. The guy was Pro-American, thats just two less people over there who will support us, vote for a tougher leader.

I wonder if the leader they will chose will swear to fight off our exhistance.

Someone has to put us back in line! Show what a Democracy can do!

Wont be too long before the USA is fighting the majority of IRAQIs instead of the thugs and criminals they are fighting now. As the war comtinues to go badly, more and more Iraqis will start to fight the americans.

I just dont get why the states continues to think it can win these unconvential wars.

Here is a bet, in 20 years we will be seeing tons of iraqi war movies and about the usa's fishy role in the conflict...

The main Muslim holy book
Not entirely true actually. The hadith, or sayings of the prophet, and sira, or biographies of the prophet are also considered guides for living, and in the case of the hadith, are on a par with the Koran.

Did i read this correctly?

The american soldiers put the residents erotic magazines next to the residents copy the of the Koran and therefore the americans are evil? what a hypocrite!
No, they put they Koran on the magazines. As it happens I am at a loss to understand why the magazines needed to be removed from where-ever they are. I dont recall too many guns, bombs etc that look like pornographic magazines.

Frankly if the person concerned were not religious, and owned no Koran, I would still wonder what the heck on duty soldiers are doing, pursuing the pornographic magazines of resident citizens, who's houses they are searching....why dont they stop by the pub and have a drink and pick up a couple of women while they are at it. Regardless of religion, it's an invasion of privacy, and utterly inappropriate behaviour that risks bringing the army and the nation of the USA in disrepute.

Personally i dont see how this story has any place even being published, it seems as though its just one mans attempt to divert attention away from the fact that his mother found out he has some dirty pictures.
Right, so you think it's fine if people charged with law enforcement, instead of doing their jobs efficiently, waste time, examing people's pornography, and invading their privacy, and worst still humiliating the citizen concerned, when in fact they do have a job to do, and if reports are to be believed, are short enough on man power without wasting on duty time, in the pursuit and purusal of pornography. There is no reason why those magazines should have ended up on the bed.

Sure we have the american soldiers seeming to make fun of this citizen but seeing as they were searching for offensive weaponry it must have been quite a relief on their part to find the worst thing in the house to be a few dirty pictures.
Oh, great, since the guy might have been dangerous, it's ok once it's established that he isnt dangerous, to humilate him in his own home. I'm certain if a foreign power invaded your nation and thier soliders came into your home and humilated you in front of your family, that your opinion on this would be radically different.

I think the only thing that comes from this article is that the american soldiers havent been educated as to the importance of the holy book to these people as an item in itself, but then they have more important things to be dealing with.
No special training is required to understand that people take their religion seriously, nor that most people are normatively embarassed to have their family know about whatever pornographic interests they may have. Only an idiot wouldnt know that such behaviour was offensive, even without the Koran being involved.
Frankly if someone suggested to me that they had put someone else's bible on a bunch of pornographic magazines, I would be astounded if they suggested to me that they did so without a specific intent to cause offence.

I think that's a horrible thing to do if they actually did that.

Putting a Holy text among such foul stuff.

Though America doesn't seem to have problems with doing that with the Holy Bible. Which irritates me too.

Peopleandstuff: accepted the actions of the soldiers were incorrect, they should have respected the individuals privacy. The soldiers have far better things to be doing and i did not mean to suggest that what they did was in anyway right. But a search on the level as is being conducted requires the invasion of privacy, just as it appears the soldiers lack the tact to do so.

However i do still feel that the reaction is unwarrented. Not having a religion personally i fail to see the difference between the holy texts being on the magazines and both being in the posession of the same individual. The muslim faith prohibits material such as those found. That is why he is a hypocite, the soldiers put the book with the magazines and they are the devil, however this is in effect what the individual has been doing with his life, mixing the holy with the forbidden.

My point about education of the soldiers was not meant to suggest that they need to be taught a bit of Religious Education, what they need to be taught is that they arn't just fighting an enemy now it is a war of opinions they have to win aswell and a bit of a brief on cultural ettiquette wouldnt go amiss.

This is ridicule, not newspaper material, They need to buy more AlJazeera wires.
The only residual value of the article is...the job situation of ordinary Iraquis Under US rule:

Imaad, 32, was a typical, mild-mannered college graduate who spoke English well and had quietly supported the U.S. presence in Iraq -- until Jan. 5, the night the soldiers came.

"You look poor," Imaad recalled one of the soldiers saying. "Why?"

Imaad answered in English: "I have not been able to find a job...

Oh, now this makes a whole lot more sence, I should have known that but oh well.

If that guy really is telling the truth, thats discraceful. The soldiers wonder why they are getting there heads blown off. The guy was Pro-American, thats just two less people over there who will support us, vote for a tougher leader.

I wonder if the leader they will chose will swear to fight off our exhistance.

Someone has to put us back in line! Show what a Democracy can do!
Hmmm. So, the mother is now anti-american why? Unless the OBVIOUSLY EEEEEVILL americans managed to suddenly cause her son to start slapping her around? Interesting line of thought.

Peopleandstuff: accepted the actions of the soldiers were incorrect, they should have respected the individuals privacy. The soldiers have far better things to be doing and i did not mean to suggest that what they did was in anyway right. But a search on the level as is being conducted requires the invasion of privacy, just as it appears the soldiers lack the tact to do so.
Of course searching through someone's stuff is an invasion of privacy, which is why I can imagine how annoyed a law abiding citizen would be to have their house searched in the first place. However understanding of the issues involved may have overcome this normative reaction if they had done their job as unobtrusively as possible. It appears that they not only didnt go out of their way to make the intrusion as inoffensive as possible, but worse actively sought to make the intrusion as offensive and humiliating as they could. I wouldnt put up with this behaviour from my law enforcement personal, and they operate with my consent.

However i do still feel that the reaction is unwarrented.
The person is a civillian, frankly their reaction is not relevent to determining the rightness or wrongness of what provoked it.

Not having a religion personally i fail to see the difference between the holy texts being on the magazines and both being in the posession of the same individual.
Then you lack empathy. No one is perfect, that is in fact the basis of most religions.

The muslim faith prohibits material such as those found.
The Christian faith prohibits plenty of things that christians regularly do. Not surprisingly most people dont see this as being an excuse to ridicule or humiliate them in their own homes.

That is why he is a hypocite,
People are not hypocrites for failing to live up to the standard 'perfection', I dont know a single religious person who unfailing lives according to the tenements of their religion. In fact according to most main stream religious doctrines, only the deity worshipped is capable of perfection, everyone else is a sinner (ie a breaker of the rules they believe in).

the soldiers put the book with the magazines and they are the devil, however this is in effect what the individual has been doing with his life, mixing the holy with the forbidden.
I doubt very much that the individual ever put the Koran and the magazines together, even if he did that is no excuse. Many more people than the individual concerned believe that such treatment of the Koran is utterly unacceptable, the act was offensive not merely to the individual so targetted, but to all who share his faith, and to all who believe in simple respect.

My point about education of the soldiers was not meant to suggest that they need to be taught a bit of Religious Education, what they need to be taught is that they arn't just fighting an enemy now it is a war of opinions they have to win aswell and a bit of a brief on cultural ettiquette wouldnt go amiss.
Your point is moot, in the first place the act is offensive to all who believe in the Koran, many of whom are American citizens (surely the soldiers understand that American citizens are not the enemies). And regardless even if every person on the face of the earth who believed in the Koran as a spiritually significant document, were 'the enemy' this is not an excuse. Even enemies are treated with human decency, by all humans who are decent. A lack of maintaining what should be personal standards of conduct is not excused by pointing at someone and saying 'oh but it's just them'. The soldiers should have more respect for themselves, and more respect for the nation they represent, and more respect for the dignity of the human condition.

If this article is true, I am more worried by the extreme lack of education that such an action would demonstrate. Most Muslims (especially those who are devout) have a personal copy of the Koran. This personal copy is holy to them. No unbeliever can touch it and they, in fact, cannot touch it without washing themselves beforehand.

If this is true, the fact that the soldiers touched this guy's Koran bothers me more than exposing hypocrisy and ridculing him.

If this article is true, I am more worried by the extreme lack of education that such an action would demonstrate. Most Muslims (especially those who are devout) have a personal copy of the Koran. This personal copy is holy to them. No unbeliever can touch it and they, in fact, cannot touch it without washing themselves beforehand.

If this is true, the fact that the soldiers touched this guy's Koran bothers me more than exposing hypocrisy and ridculing him.
Well there's my 'something new' in the learned department, for today. I knew the Koran was tapu (set aside), but I didnt realise the extent of the tapu on an individuals personal copy of the Koran. It seems to me that there is no way one could expect not to offend the general populice where a majority of them have a Koran and observe such a tapu, unless the soldiers expected to enter and search such people's home know about the tapu (and act appropriately in accordance with this awareness), and if they did (know), then the actions are more inexcusable. They should not have been sent to search the houses of resident citizens unless they did know, or unless 'winning hearts and minds' is just an advertising by-line used to sell the war 'back home' and in the international arena.

The wording sounds more than a little staged as if it were read from a script. But, having not been there I can't really say if it happened or didn't happen.

The wording sounds more than a little staged as if it were read from a script. But, having not been there I can't really say if it happened or didn't happen.
It's just the guy in question's account and the supposedly trustworthy word of the post's reporter.