NationStates Jolt Archive

... did we do it because:

1. we as a people cared for, respected, and loved the French people and their culture and thought that it was wrong that they would be overtaken and subject to brutality by Hitler's army

2. So we could say "Hey we helped you, you owe us, so go along with what we do, even if your better judgement tells you not to".

It's obviously 2, dude. That's why any country ever helps any other. That's the point of being a country.

More likely the nazis were the enemy and France was a good place to start the liberation of Europe. I doubt anyone was thinking "Hahah! Now they owe us one!" They also bankrupted their nation helping us fight the Revolution; so it could be considered paying back a debt.

Probably more along the lines of "We don't like the nazis, and we don't want them to attack the US itself, so we'll just destroy them and start in...France. That seems appropriate."

More likely the nazis were the enemy and France was a good place to start the liberation of Europe. I doubt anyone was thinking "Hahah! Now they owe us one!" They also bankrupted their nation helping us fight the Revolution; so it could be considered paying back a debt.


French forces only really in Yorktown. The Americans did the brunt of the fighting. Yes they supplied us occasionally, but their roll in us winning our freedom is overblown.

Cos Britain told you to. :p

If anything, the French should thank us for getting their king to support us in the Revolution. He bankrupted France, leaving it to his even more inpet heir, which led to the French Revolution.
Or would you prefer a king? :P

Or maybe its not overblown and they spent 76 billion...... just a thought, and it is definatly not so we could say look you owe us one its because Hitler was serious threat to all the civilized nations. If we would have waited then he could taken all of europe and then concentrated on the USSR who took the brunt of the fighting and actaully won the war by most accounts.

And anyone who now thinks that france is a big vagina is not a student of history at all and is being very ignorant. Any country that has been as ravaged as much as France, has the right to be hesitant about engaging in warfare. conflicts (Napolean, Franco Prussian War, War with Spain, French revolution, WWI, Resulting in millions and millions dead then WWII were as you say we "saved their ass". I dont think either of those options is a good option (over simplified) but #1 is much better that #2

Probably more along the lines of "We don't like the nazis, and we don't want them to attack the US itself, so we'll just destroy them and start in...France. That seems appropriate."

So not because we cared about France, but just to keep Germany from attacking the U.S.?? So the act of Hitler attacking France wasn't something we necessarily were interested in stopping, until it became an issue of U.S. security?

More likely the nazis were the enemy and France was a good place to start the liberation of Europe. I doubt anyone was thinking "Hahah! Now they owe us one!" They also bankrupted their nation helping us fight the Revolution; so it could be considered paying back a debt.

What makes Nazi's enemies then? What was it that the Nazi's were doing that we felt was wrong? And if we care about liberating Europe and want to liberate Europe, and France is a part of it.... (duh)

And also, if it could be considered paying back a debt, might we have thought twice about defending them if we didn't owe them anything? Again making it not about what love and respect we have for their culture, but only about keeping score over who did what?

Maybe if Germany helped us out we would have been fighting on their side, "so it could be considered paying back a debt"?

More likely the nazis were the enemy and France was a good place to start the liberation of Europe. I doubt anyone was thinking "Hahah! Now they owe us one!" They also bankrupted their nation helping us fight the Revolution; so it could be considered paying back a debt.

HUH?

I see your knowledge about WWII is as lacking as possible. Since I'm sure that you can not be bothered to read some history books about WWII, Churchills extremly good books published around 1947 gives a very thorough picture of WWII and would have been good, they are like 13-15 volumes and take a lot of time, I can suggest that you take a look at a Hollywood product that maybe will give you the necessary knowledge, Patton. Then you will see that liberation of Europe did not start in france but rather on Sicily.

well i'm french and dispise France for it's colonialism past(my father took part of it in Algerie back in 1960 and you know what? it destoyed him.
i dispise french politician as well as german one and english one...etc...should i go on?
i don't agree with whats happen in the world right now.because the only choice that seem to be is no choice .......

so fuck america and his faschist trend
so fuck france and his faschist trend
so fuck all religious and other powerseeker bastards and their faschist trend
...one faschist, said once "if we can not learn from history we are doom to live again and again."....Napoleon
think about it. read about history you may understand one day ;)

Have to agree with Pubiconia on this one. Pick up a book or ten on the subject. You've vastly oversimplified the U.S. entrance. We were helping the UK long before we helped France. The Lend-Lease Act was passed months before Pearl Harbor, granting 50 billion to 38 countries (the UK got 31 Billion). Pearl Harbor became a good reason to join the allies. Once this happened, our helping of France was inevitable. But Pub is right, we came into Italy before Normandy.

Allers, how do you really feel? lol

I would be angry too, if someone took away all my capital letters, spelling and punctuation.

Damn them to hell!

French forces only really in Yorktown. The Americans did the brunt of the fighting. Yes they supplied us occasionally, but their roll in us winning our freedom is overblown.

Actually, if it weren't for their naval blockade and the fact that they were pressuring Britain back in Europe, too, the British would have just sent reinforcements to wipe out the revolution.

Walkendalia, i will then say to him ,to go back to school and read more other history.

What makes Nazi's enemies then? What was it that the Nazi's were doing that we felt was wrong? And if we care about liberating Europe and want to liberate Europe, and France is a part of it.... (duh)

I don't really think you actually cared about Europe. The only help you gave in the early part was by selling weapons to Britain.

But the Nazi's became America's enemy after Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. And Germany, wanting to support their Japanese allies, declared war on America.

And will repeat that by no means did the US win WWII, It was the Russians who took the pressure off the Allies in the west and north africa after Hitler broke the Non-aggression treaty, Or if Hitler would have eliminated the BEF and many french at Dunkirk the War may have ended much sooner, though only to start a new one with the USSR.

and for the one interrested with the present

i give you a link

corporatisme (http://www.knife-party.net/flash/barry.html)

and US didn't came in europa to liberate "us" but rather because they were afraid of USSR.and knew they were tratening their already marshal plan....
read history don't believe anything you see before you can chek it for yourself


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/gaffeur/bushblitzkrieg.jpg


:sniper: :sniper:

... did we do it because:

1. we as a people cared for, respected, and loved the French people and their culture and thought that it was wrong that they would be overtaken and subject to brutality by Hitler's army

2. So we could say "Hey we helped you, you owe us, so go along with what we do, even if your better judgement tells you not to".

Assuming you're talking about WWII it's actually option 3.

3. The Germans declared war on the U.S. FIRST after the U.S. declared war on their axis ally Japan in reaction to the Pearl Harbor attack. Since Germany was one of the most powerful military forces on the planet at the time the U.S. couldn't exactly just ignore that, so it was either attack them immediately in Europe, or wait until they brought the fight to American soil.

Prior to that event forcing the U.S. into the war they just sat on their asses and watched from the sidelines.

They also bankrupted their nation helping us fight the Revolution; so it could be considered paying back a debt.
As a person of french descent I don't find that a bad thing, because the bankruptcy of the Royal treasury helped bring about the Mother of All Revolutions - The French Revolution!

French forces only really in Yorktown. The Americans did the brunt of the fighting. Yes they supplied us occasionally, but their roll in us winning our freedom is overblown.
Yah. They didn't do anything except finance the war and train our troops. No one needs money or troops that have any idea what they are doing.

and all this time I thought it was to make Germany stop sinking American ships in the Atlantic

They needed help then but now they do not. They just bombed the shit out of the Ivory Coast Air Force a few months ago.

and all this time I thought it was to make Germany stop sinking American ships in the Atlantic
No, you're wrong. There were no Americans on any ships in all of Europe and therefore the US didn't care about German submarines.

French forces only really in Yorktown. The Americans did the brunt of the fighting. Yes they supplied us occasionally, but their roll in us winning our freedom is overblown.


Yes you could also thank the Spanish and the Dutch for that ;)

But are you so blinkered to think that America alone could have won the War of Independence?

Yes you could also thank the Spanish and the Dutch for that ;)

But are you so blinkered to think that America alone could have won the War of Independence?
Hey, America won WWII, why not the War of Independance, too? [/sarcasm]

... did we do it because:
1. we as a people cared for, respected, and loved the French people and their culture and thought that it was wrong that they would be overtaken and subject to brutality by Hitler's army
2. So we could say "Hey we helped you, you owe us, so go along with what we do, even if your better judgement tells you not to".Pfffft. The US got into WW2/Europe because they had an economic interest of doing so. And BTW the French and any other Europeans and especially the West Germans owe the US nothing. After taking some very late part in the liberation of Europe the US went on to make the liberated countries the front line in their stupid ideologic Cold War and put their nukes in those countries. And with mentally retarded presidents making jokes about nuking the Soviet Union within 5 minutes and talking about an "evil empire" that was not funny at all. And now? The US is not a trustworthy nation any more and will remain so for a very long time.

Hey, America won WWII, why not the War of Independance, too? [/sarcasm]
The Soviet Union won WW2. Maybe you want to check on a map what the US (which is not America) did and what burden the Soviets had to carry. The area liberated by US forces is pretty tiny in comparison to the entire east of Europe that what liberated by the Soviets.

You should help Nigeria because nigeria is a small oppressed african country. If you help me by sending me $10,000 US dollars by going to www.helpkwame-nigeria.org (http://www.urbanthumbs.com) I may give you a place in power when I assume control of the Great Falls Power Plant. Every nickel you donate will save peoples lives. Please send now.

The Soviet Union won WW2. Maybe you want to check on a map what the US (which is not America) did and what burden the Soviets had to carry. The area liberated by US forces is pretty tiny in comparison to the entire east of Europe that what liberated by the Soviets.
...and that's why I put a [/sarcasm] at the end of my post ;)

You should help Nigeria because nigeria is a small oppressed african country. If you help me by sending me $10,000 US dollars by going to www.helpkwame-nigeria.org (http://www.urbanthumbs.com) I may give you a place in power when I assume control of the Great Falls Power Plant. Every nickel you donate will save peoples lives. Please send now.

You're lying about nigeria. Check out this link for interesting information on nigeria.
www.gov-statistics-usa.com/nigeria.html (http://www.analpassions.com)

Allers,

Nice video. When France is an islamic country (most studies indicate it will be by in the next 30 years), you'll welcome to come here. In the meantime, stay mad about the war on terror.

When France is an islamic country (most studies indicate it will be by in the next 30 years)...

That was funny. Saved my day.

That was funny. Saved my day.
Must've been a very bad day ;)

Must've been a very bad day ;)It really was. At least I got one mad fit of laughter out of it... :D

It really was. At least I got one mad fit of laughter out of it... :D
here you go, another thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=391778) to cheer you up

Ah. Well, it wasn't the France bashing that made me laugh. People can keep on hating and disagreeing all they want. I don't care about that really. It was the way it was done, particularly the "most studies part". Priceless.

The French aren't bad, I guess...many things wrong with them, but their ok.

Now Dugaulle, their holy saint....what a dick. Let's all burn him in effigy. I'll never forgive what he did to Quebec and Canada.... I hope he rots in his arrogant hell as we speak.

Allers,

Nice video. When France is an islamic country (most studies indicate it will be by in the next 30 years), you'll welcome to come here. In the meantime, stay mad about the war on terror.


listen i don't live in france anymore all 15 years now..and about the studie i am not interrested in theory ,the sad reality is that 20% of frnch voters are fascists
(le pen),that is frightening.and reread my 1rst post,please.

Pfffft. The US got into WW2/Europe because they had an economic interest of doing so. And BTW the French and any other Europeans and especially the West Germans owe the US nothing. After taking some very late part in the liberation of Europe the US went on to make the liberated countries the front line in their stupid ideologic Cold War and put their nukes in those countries. And with mentally retarded presidents making jokes about nuking the Soviet Union within 5 minutes and talking about an "evil empire" that was not funny at all. And now? The US is not a trustworthy nation any more and will remain so for a very long time.

Translation: blah blah blah blah I hate the united states.


The Soviet Union won WW2. Maybe you want to check on a map what the US (which is not America) did and what burden the Soviets had to carry. The area liberated by US forces is pretty tiny in comparison to the entire east of Europe that what liberated by the Soviets.

No they did not.

The Allies won the war.

And will repeat that by no means did the US win WWII, It was the Russians who took the pressure off the Allies in the west and north africa after Hitler broke the Non-aggression treaty, Or if Hitler would have eliminated the BEF and many french at Dunkirk the War may have ended much sooner, though only to start a new one with the USSR.

And it was Western supplies that allowed the Russians to fight their defensive battles until they got their factories rolling in the Urals.

I don't really think you actually cared about Europe. The only help you gave in the early part was by selling weapons to Britain.

But the Nazi's became America's enemy after Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. And Germany, wanting to support their Japanese allies, declared war on America.

You are partially right. There was the notion of Isolationism but there was the fact the Americans were in no position to fight a war. The standing army was tiny and the equipment was old. FDR wanted in but he needed a reason to move the people.

To suggest the Americans were not concerned is rather silly. Many people here had relations over there.....

No, you're wrong. There were no Americans on any ships in all of Europe and therefore the US didn't care about German submarines.

Hogwash, thirty American died on the British passenger ship Athenia.

Hogwash, thirty American died on the British passenger ship Athenia.
Sorry. Should I have put something like [/sarcasm] at the end of my post? :)

... did we do it because:

1. we as a people cared for, respected, and loved the French people and their culture and thought that it was wrong that they would be overtaken and subject to brutality by Hitler's army

2. So we could say "Hey we helped you, you owe us, so go along with what we do, even if your better judgement tells you not to".

The fuck you talking about? You entered the world wars to fight Germany, not help France. Helping France was incidental. Fighting Germany (and Japan) was what it was all about.

... did we do it because:

1. we as a people cared for, respected, and loved the French people and their culture and thought that it was wrong that they would be overtaken and subject to brutality by Hitler's army

2. So we could say "Hey we helped you, you owe us, so go along with what we do, even if your better judgement tells you not to".

Ahem. If by "helping the French" you mean join in WWII (along with russians) I suggest Pearl Harbour might have had a tiny influence in it.

The fuck you talking about? You entered the world wars to fight Germany, not help France. Helping France was incidental. Fighting Germany (and Japan) was what it was all about.

Put two and to together. What was it about Germany that made them our enemy... surely they were doing something wrong? Or did we just want to fight for the sake of fighting, and had no cause or purpose behind the war whatever?

Ahem. If by "helping the French" you mean join in WWII (along with russians) I suggest Pearl Harbour might have had a tiny influence in it.

And Germany didn't? Sorry, it just frustrates me, because that is not the point. My point is people give France a hard time for posing our Iraq war, saying they owe us because we helped them in WW2. I am asking: is 'owing us' the point? Should France submit to our judgement even if they don't think it's right? On grounds that they owe us?

OR... did we defend France out of appreciation for their culture and recognition of their right to be a free nation?

If it is the LATTER, than we would be hypocritical in saying that they should withold their judgement and just go along with what we say.

You guys are stupid sometimes.