NationStates Jolt Archive

Has anyone noticed this?

India and Pakistan...
Malaysia...
South Africa...
Israel and Palestine...
Northern Ireland...
USA...
Plus and all around reputation for inhuman treatment of natives peoples and animals.

Remember how at the Treat of Versailles, Britain was real bitchy? Maybe it's time for the world to bitch and demand Britain to clean up. After all, their economy's doing really good now.

Huh??

Inhuman treatment? You may as well ask the same of the Belgians and Germans...

I hazzard a guess that history is not your strong point.

Britain can't be singled out for the actions of its empire, all the European empires were inhumane as Vonners points out even little old Belgium is responsible, in their case the mess that is the Congo/Zaire.

*puts on a T-shirt saying "Try and stop us"* If you've seen The Simpsons you'll get it.

Britain actually was not the bitchy partner at the treaty of Versailles, France was. In fact, we were in favour only of reducing the German navy, encouraging democracy and allowing for a flourishing German economy in which we could market our goods. France pushed for reparations to a greater extent than the British ever did desiring Germany to be weakened and pathetic...

What the Belgians did in the Congo was a hell of a lot worse than most of what the British have done, except for maybe the Indian massacres. That was pretty bad.

You're just saying that because Britain was jealous about our colony. :)

See, this is the reason why I try to avoid any and all types of debate or arguement. All parties are likely to be too stubborn to back down and in the end we all think we're right.

All those places had it coming :p

You can't just single out GB for these, as said above, look at all the problems caused by other empires.

What the Belgians did in the Congo was a hell of a lot worse than most of what the British have done, except for maybe the Indian massacres. That was pretty bad.

The Boer war was pretty bad. We came up with concentration camps before the nazis did, you know.


But if we are held responsible for that, I think Belgium should be held responsible for the genocide in Rwanda, which was caused by them, albeit indirectly.

I'm kinda convinced that this Athene person is American and attempting to pass the buck. If not, then I apologise for jumping to a conclusion.

Britain actually was not the bitchy partner at the treaty of Versailles, France was. In fact, we were in favour only of reducing the German navy, encouraging democracy and allowing for a flourishing German economy in which we could market our goods. France pushed for reparations to a greater extent than the British ever did desiring Germany to be weakened and pathetic...

Wasn't that so they could pay back the USA?

Huh??

Inhuman treatment? You may as well ask the same of the Belgians and Germans...

I hazzard a guess that history is not your strong point.
I guess I deserve that... I'm such a retard at history... my entire post is moot... don't even consider it... let's trash this post...

Rwanda and Burundi are France's fault. They favoured the one ethnic group over the other.

In the Belgium Congo the rubber collectors had a nasty habit of amputating the limbs of children who didn't work hard enough and there was at least one case of a man being left with his daughter's hand and foot after the rest of her was eaten, now that's a distressing picture.

I guess I deserve that... I'm such a retard at history... my entire post is moot... don't even consider it... let's trash this post...

Hey...no retard...and at least you being honest as well...bravo!!! And no I am not flaming you...

I guess I deserve that... I'm such a retard at history... my entire post is moot... don't even consider it... let's trash this post...

It's partly true. The British did cause a great deal of problems for many countries. But most developed countries have done so at some point in their history, or continue to do so.

My conclusion didn't come off of Britain's inhuman treatment of natives... rather I was thinking about the present conflicts around the world: all these screwed up borders... anyway you're all right, Britain isn't alone.

And I'm not American... I'm Canadian.

See, this is the reason why I try to avoid any and all types of debate or arguement. All parties are likely to be too stubborn to back down and in the end we all think we're right.
I admit, Belgian Congo was a disgrace.
But can't we just say America and GB were just bashing Belgium because they were jealous? All countries did bad things. Just give me that. :)

Back to some GB-bashing.

And you've got to ask yourself who ruled GB in those times - the monarchs from the 11th century onwards were mostly French or German, with some other nationalities thrown in when the line of succession got particularly confusing.

Historically, the Brits have been good at assimilating their invaders and just carrying on with business.

Screw that! England, France & Europe deserve to get raked on the coals for their imperial past. Pay the Piper, the US is looking more like a jerk every day...yet is trying to right 'lands in the sand' created by the European powers after the War. No way -the countries don't describe the ethnic groups. So what would be wrong with a divisision of countries along ethnic diversity? :fluffle:

So what would be wrong with a divisision of countries along ethnic diversity? :fluffle:

It would be far too stable and peaceful, obviously.

So what would be wrong with a divisision of countries along ethnic diversity? :fluffle:
It has genocide written all over it.

I for one cannot imagine...solving the Middle East.
Ireland
Cret
Sri Lanka....
but, I can imgine giving a big "HUG" to all that sees this, and that is a start. ;)

Huh? Can you elaborate further concerning inhumane treatment in Malaysia?

I don't get it here, I don't mind learning something new or correcting if it's a bias information concerning something.

Er, ok, Britain invented concentration camps during the Boer War, which must be the fruit salad Blackadder was referring to.
Either way, blaming one country ahead of any other for acting badly is kind of racist though isn't it? No one race or country is going to act any "better" if they were put in a position of power, so what is the point of this blame game? Truth is we're all capable of huge atrocities and everyone commits them when they think they can get away with them.
The US wanted to be lenient to Germany not because they are just so fantastically nice, but out of their own interests and economy.
Sorry for the rambling unstructured post :rolleyes:

It has genocide written all over it.

No, forcing two rival tribes to inhabit the same country has genocide written all over it.

Some other things Britain can be blamed for:
The industrial revolution
The English language
Passenger and freight trains
Trans-oceanic communications
The ship's screw & other refinements
Higher mathematics
Evolution
The computer & the computer language
Being the first country to actually fight the Nazis to a stand still
The actions of SOE (the British sponsored/trained terrorists who, amongst other things, sabotarged the nazi nuclear programme)
Cheep china & related benefits of food hygiene
Vaccinations
The fundamental principles behind democracy
Electricity
The light bulb
Sewage systems

And so many other things I can't be bothered to write them all down. Yes we weren't as nice as we could have been to India, but make no mistake the two groups there hated each other long before we came along. Most of the other problems listed weren't *caused* by the British, but rather by the rapid-withdrawal of the British. Despite our efforts in many cases the desire of the natives to kill another ethnic group was stronger than their desire to maintain peace and democracy.

Now you can blame us for not ruthlessly stamping out such racial hatreds, and for not stamping out the corruption in both colonial and native officials (especially in India) but you can't blame us for the existence of the hatreds in the first place.

Yes the British did a lot of bad things, but not especially bad by the standards of the time, and to the best of my knowledge and in purely numerical terms, what we gave back has taken ouyr country out of the ethical red and back in the black again.

Damocles Hegemony.

Wasn't Iraq under British control once upon a time? If so, this really proves your point!

..Sewage systems

Nah, I think the Romans invented that first.

Most of the other problems listed weren't *caused* by the British, but rather by the rapid-withdrawal of the British. Despite our efforts in many cases the desire of the natives to kill another ethnic group was stronger than their desire to maintain peace and democracy.

Precisely. I think every problem on that list started AFTER we left. Pretty much every country was better off under the Empire.

Bring it back, I say!

Wasn't Iraq under British control once upon a time? If so, this really proves your point!
Ah yes, but at least we didn't destroy Babylon. :(

Shouldn't we take it further? The Norman's took over Britain in 1066; it's their fault.

Actually, I blame the Vikings. They weakened the Saxons so much that they couldn't hold off those Normans. Bastards.

Actually, Perhaps it's the Romans who are to blame. If they'd held Britain, the Saxons would never have been in control. Roman bastards caused all this.

Come to think of it, perhaps if the Celtic tribes had held off the Romans in the first place, then Britain would never have become advanced enough to do all those bastardly things.

In fact, had the Beaker Peoples not been soundly buggered by the Celts, then Britain would just have made interesting pottery. Those irresponsible beaker people bastards! What where they doing?

I'm kinda convinced that this Athene person is American and attempting to pass the buck. If not, then I apologise for jumping to a conclusion.

Don't say "trying to pass the buck". Britain did what it did, and yes, it is the cause for many of the world's problems. It essentially fucked up the world as the people at those times knew it. Spain and Britain colonized so much of the world and displaced so many people it's ridiculous. Just admit that ok, and don't belittle it. Even if it was some American, don't act like it didn't happen, or that it wasn't a big deal. In any case, you're not directly responsible, however, don't act like anyone else is either.

Some other things Britain can be blamed for:
The industrial revolution
The English language
Passenger and freight trains
Trans-oceanic communications
The ship's screw & other refinements
Higher mathematics
Evolution
The computer & the computer language
Being the first country to actually fight the Nazis to a stand still
The actions of SOE (the British sponsored/trained terrorists who, amongst other things, sabotarged the nazi nuclear programme)
Cheep china & related benefits of food hygiene
Vaccinations
The fundamental principles behind democracy
Electricity
The light bulb
Sewage systems

And so many other things I can't be bothered to write them all down. Yes we weren't as nice as we could have been to India, but make no mistake the two groups there hated each other long before we came along. Most of the other problems listed weren't *caused* by the British, but rather by the rapid-withdrawal of the British. Despite our efforts in many cases the desire of the natives to kill another ethnic group was stronger than their desire to maintain peace and democracy.

Now you can blame us for not ruthlessly stamping out such racial hatreds, and for not stamping out the corruption in both colonial and native officials (especially in India) but you can't blame us for the existence of the hatreds in the first place.

Yes the British did a lot of bad things, but not especially bad by the standards of the time, and to the best of my knowledge and in purely numerical terms, what we gave back has taken ouyr country out of the ethical red and back in the black again.

Damocles Hegemony.

Quite a few of those inventions are American you idiot. Or even Roman....fucking sewage systems?! What the hell.

The computer and electricity are definitely American by the way. Higher mathematics can be attributed to the Persians and Arabs. And no, you cock, the Muslims and Hindus got along fine in India before Britain came along. They were of the same race for the most part (except some Mughal half-breeds), just different religions. There were Muslim rulers who treated the Hindus fine, and then Britain came along and fucked it up. You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop rationalizing.

Wasn't Iraq under British control once upon a time? If so, this really proves your point!

Even better is that our occupation of Iraq really refined our bombing of cities strategy....

The computer and electricity are definitely American by the way.
Just out of interest, please tell me you don't think that Ben Franklin discovered electricity. This isn't flaming or anything, but he didn't.

Ha, that's a joke. Britain did far far more good for the world than bad. What would India be if Britain hadn't intervened? A lot of petty warring states, or ruled by the French (and we know what kind of job they'd do).

Britain was incredibly enlightened compared to the majority of empire builders. What about the Spanish, slaughtering anyone who refused to convert in South America?

Oh and a lot of inventions that Americans claim for themselves like the lightbulb, the computer and the internet were actually first invented by British, but developed by Americans. Not that Britain needs these inventions to prove that they have probably contributed the most to invention in general.

Let's be really pedantic :
It's not my fault, I'm a subject, not a citizen.

And our economy isn't particularly stunning.

computers are ours by the way, the first one was at Bletchley Park in Sussex, and Charles Babbage made plans for the first one, but never finished building it over 200 years ago.

Let's be really pedantic :
It's not my fault, I'm a subject, not a citizen.

were you born in the UK and do you live in the UK?

Yes, I was born and live in the UK, but technically we are not citizens, we are subjects of the crown, not citizens of the state.

What about the US empire. The poor alaskan inuits and hawaiians didn't have a chance. (But they did try)

Yes, I was born and live in the UK, but technically we are not citizens, we are subjects of the crown, not citizens of the state.
then youre a citizen

British Nationality Act 1981 would do that for you

possibly the one in 1948 as well

or the Immigration Act 1971

The computer and electricity are definitely American by the way.


Your wrong, the first programmable computer was build in 1943 by the British.
It was designed by Max Newman and was called Colossus. It was built to crack the German "Lorenz" code, which it did. :D

Your wrong, the first programmable computer was build in 1813 by the Nigerians.
It was designed by Max Newman and was called Colossus. It was built to crack the Zimbabwean "Lorenz" code, which it did. :D

I'm so glad people fully appreciate Nigera in this debate. What a great country, so inspiring...

I'm so glad people fully appreciate Nigera in this debate. What a great country, so inspiring...


What? :confused:

Wherefore?

then youre a citizen

British Nationality Act 1981 would do that for you

possibly the one in 1948 as well

or the Immigration Act 1971
Damn, you beat me to it.
Thats the second time in a week I seen people make that mistake. Wonder why eveyone still thinks they're not citizens?

Because we are not!

British Nationality Act 1981 introduces three types of 'citizenship'

Immigration Act 1971 made commonwealth citizens British Subjects.

Ok, lets put it like this, we are called citizens, but we are still 'subjects' because the Queen still in theory has absoloute power if she wants.

Because we are not!

British Nationality Act 1981 introduces three types of 'citizenship'

Immigration Act 1971 made commonwealth citizens British Subjects.

Ok, lets put it like this, we are called citizens, but we are still 'subjects' because the Queen still in theory has absoloute power if she wants.

I don't care! it's just a word!

Hey, you know what else Britain did?

Canada!

So... if we hadn't built an Empire, you (at least in your present version) would not be posting now. Strange, hmm?

And about dividing the country along ethnic lines rather than lumping them all together; Look what happened in Bosnia. When people don't move so fast they get pushed, and 'accidentally' fall into deep pits in the forest...

Compared to some Empires, Britain's was positively beneficial. More of the Roman than the Mongol, I'd say. After all, some Empires are downright unpleasant, devastating whole cities, destroying ancient land marks and sparking civil wars in the wake of their passing.

And you've got to ask yourself who ruled GB in those times - the monarchs from the 11th century onwards were mostly French or German, with some other nationalities thrown in when the line of succession got particularly confusing.

Historically, the Brits have been good at assimilating their invaders and just carrying on with business.

We are the Brits.
You will be assimilated.
Your technological and cultural differences will be added to our own.
Resistance is futile (but gives us something to bitch about).

Has my home country done a lotta bad stuff? Yeah. I don't care though. I wasn't involved.

Britain actually was not the bitchy partner at the treaty of Versailles, France was. In fact, we were in favour only of reducing the German navy, encouraging democracy and allowing for a flourishing German economy in which we could market our goods. France pushed for reparations to a greater extent than the British ever did desiring Germany to be weakened and pathetic...

Not entirely true dude although this is what most history books say. Certainly France did the dirty work and acted as the aggressor but there were a number of deals behind the scene here. Check this out in more detail - the T of V is one of the most interesting summaries of 20C history

Wasn't that so they could pay back the USA?

The loans weren't till much later. That was the Dawes and Young plan.

Historically, the Brits have been good at assimilating their invaders and just carrying on with business.

I loved what the "Xeneophobe's guide to the English" said about this. It was talking about the Norman invasion of 1066 and it said

"The English did what they do best. They ignored the strange cooking smells, the incomprehensible language and the wierd clothes and little by little the invaders were turned into English people. Norman is now a commonplace English firstname"

We are the Brits.
You will be assimilated.
Your technological and cultural differences will be added to our own.
Resistance is futile (but gives us something to bitch about).

lmao :D

The British empire actualy did alot of good (as well as the bad). We built the infastructures for amny of our colonies. Also built alot of railways and trains which are still used. Just to address a few of the allegatuions in the original post

India and Pakistan - was realtively secure and peaceful when it was our colony (there was no pakistan at that point). But when we left they divided themselves and have been fighting eversinse

Israel and palestine - The state of palestine was a british colony but it was largely due to America pressure that palestine was divided and israel was craeted.

Northern ireland - thats a bit of a tuff one. All of Ireland used to be British but the Catholic areas wanted independence while the Protestant bits wanted to stay british so it wa split. Plus alot of effort has gone into fixing it.

O and T of V
french = Problematic, demand reperations, demand limit army, war guilt clause
USA = Wanted very leniant settlement, wanted strong Germany to trade with favoured self determination but Wilson was ill most of conference
Britain = Imbetween, Gov saw future probs with pissing off Germany but Public wanted vengence.
Italy = Sat around ate pizza, then compalined afterwoods ( Wanted areas of land claimed promised for joining war (dalmatia coast)

O and the computer is indeed ours

I have noticed the habit that some Americans claim what they are doing now (declaring wars, secret ops) is righting the wrongs of The British Empire.

I suppose the thinking that America is somehow freedom fighters, freeing people from the makings of The British Empire would fit in more comftabley into one's conscience then the simple fact that wars and secret ops are the making of an empire to replace the the British one.

No, forcing two rival tribes to inhabit the same country has genocide written all over it.
Hmm if your talking about Rwanda. Nobody forced the Hutu's and Tutsi to live in the same country. They already lived there for roughly 3/3.5 centuries before becoming a colony. And even back then the Tutsi minority ruled and opressed the Hutu majority.

Remember how at the Treat of Versailles, Britain was real bitchy? Maybe it's time for the world to bitch and demand Britain to clean up. After all, their economy's doing really good now.

You go and lose nearly 500,000 men to a war started by the Germans and I think you would be slightly annoyed too

I've said it before, I'll say it again - the cause of the earth's problems is the opposable thumb. Humans should have never been entrusted with it.

You go and lose nearly 500,000 men to a war started by the Germans and I think you would be slightly annoyed too

It wasn't realy the Germans fault. the two amjor super blocks had been building up to a war for yaers, what with competing empire gains and such like.It was the assasiantion of Archduke Franz ferdinhand in Serbia (I think it was serbia) that was the trigger in any acse and this assasiantion did not directly involve Germany.

After all, some Empires are downright unpleasant, devastating whole cities, destroying ancient land marks and sparking civil wars in the wake of their passing.

And you're trying to tell everyone that Britain DIDN'T do this? Who do you think you're fooling?

brits are creepy. plain creepy. bad teeth, weird accents and weird humo(u)r

brits are creepy. plain creepy. bad teeth, weird accents and weird humo(u)r
so...

you dont like Brits because their teeth arent perfect hollywood straight pearly whites?

weird humour is good humour!

brits are creepy. plain creepy. bad teeth, weird accents and weird humo(u)r


Mmm... Nice stereotyping.

I won't tell you what we think of Americans over here ;)