NationStates Jolt Archive

Why has there been no coverage of the Abu Ghraib war crimes on TV? There has been little report of this information. Rather, our networks choose to feed us the titilating story of immanent world importance: Prince of england dresses in Nazi garb. Sure, some dumb 20 year in a position of power is inconceivably dense and tactless. But, honestly, who the f*** cares. This isn't news. That's idiocy. Save it for the circus. I'm not buying it.

News is "Specialist Graner's" trial. Abu Ghraib is quite possibly the most catastrophic military PR blunder in recent US history. Inmates were killed. Possibly 30, if I recall correctly. Inmates were forcibly given enemas, raped with inanimate objects. Forced to eat out of a toilet. Yes, we have some noble people in charge. Where's the accountability. No, two weeks of reporting on this isn't enough to solidify this into the national consciousness. This needs to be stamped into the national consciousness and action needs to be taken. We should be demanding IMMEDIATE ACCOUNTABILITY. We know damn well the story doesn't just stop at that a "couple solidiers" actions. We demand the truth and real independent reporting.

Okay...enough for now....reading the news makes me angry.

Haven't heard all of these allegations... Murder, Sodomy, Rape...? Can you link your source?

As far as eating out of toilets... trust me if it happened, does not mean it was forced. I've seen these folks do some strange things in the name of this and that.

It'll probably end up a My-Lai style pageant:

Hang the enlisted, decorate the brass.

These are military hearings and not public hearings. Whole different set of rules apply. We will learn the results of these trials, but not much else. As for 30 deaths and the rape, sodomy, etc...please source. All I have heard about is some rough handling and embarrassing treatment.

I've heard nothing of murders on that scale, same with rape, i mean it would be rather public if it came out that the guards were homoerotic in addition to abusive...though I did hear about some abusive acts with a broomstick..

I mean, I think the treatment was unjust and unbecoming of the US military, but remember, these prisoners aren't POWs or civilians, but criminals essentially, unlawful insurgents, terrorists, and criminals. Mix that with the worst unit in the US army apparently (hence why they were tasked with prison guard duty), and such crimes occur.

The crimes at Abu Ghraib were a terrible thing, no doubt. But murder, rape, sodomy? No. The worst treatment was embarassing and abusive things. Nothing on the scale you mentioned has been reported by any media or military outlet that I am aware of.

And these kinds of things took place everyday under Saddam Hussein's regime. To say one incident proves America is wrong and terrible while at the same time acting like the thousands of similiar and thousands of worse acts under Saddam were not justification for action is hypocritical.

That last paragraph was not addressed to you, Jovian Worlds, but to the Blame America First crowd in general.

Get over it. Yes it was a horrible thing. Yes it was disgusting. BUT IT WAS A FEW ROUGE SOLDIERS! The liberal media made it seem way worse than it already was. Our people are being beheaded by these infidel savages, and all you care about is Abu Garab? Your a moron.

Get over it. Yes it was a horrible thing. Yes it was disgusting. BUT IT WAS A FEW ROUGE SOLDIERS! The liberal media made it seem way worse than it already was. Our people are being beheaded by these infidel savages, and all you care about is Abu Garab? Your a moron.

Well, I think what you said is basically correct, but you might have used a little more tact. In any case, the people who did these things are pretty much the dregs of our military and not the norm. To judge all of our military on the actions of a few misfits is like blaming all Muslims for the actions of a small sociopathic Muslim element. Also, as Commando said, to compare making terrorists get naked to beheading people is just...well...moronic.

And I suppose you have access to such information which gives you confidence in suggesting that all of the prisoners were/are terrorists?

Get over it. Yes it was a horrible thing. Yes it was disgusting. BUT IT WAS A FEW ROUGE SOLDIERS! The liberal media made it seem way worse than it already was. Our people are being beheaded by these infidel savages, and all you care about is Abu Garab? Your a moron.
oh yes because the same shit isnt happening at every other major facility we are running for these people. the FBI has shit on it and people who have gone in undercover ahve shit on it, and its gonna come out and your gonna look like a moron

and who has been beheaded in the last month? i dont recall alot of people actually being beheaded

Get over it. Yes it was a horrible thing. Yes it was disgusting. BUT IT WAS A FEW ROUGE SOLDIERS! The liberal media made it seem way worse than it already was. Our people are being beheaded by these infidel savages, and all you care about is Abu Garab? Your a moron.
Don't these soldiers take an oath?, their shouldn't be any rogue soldiers.

The crimes at Abu Ghraib were a terrible thing, no doubt. But murder, rape, sodomy? No. The worst treatment was embarassing and abusive things. Nothing on the scale you mentioned has been reported by any media or military outlet that I am aware off.

Every report mentioned sodomy (which, when forced, is rape) with a broomstick.

The recent trial used a witness who mentioned a prisoner being forced to eat out of a toilet (in addition to being forced to eat pork/drink alcohol).

Every report mentioned sodomy (which, when forced, is rape) with a broomstick.

The recent trial used a witness who mentioned a prisoner being forced to eat out of a toilet (in addition to being forced to eat pork/drink alcohol).
dont forget wrappnig in the israeli flag

and welcoem to the real world people, different areas have different societies, and all thsoe societies arnt jsut like ours with the same beleifs and traditions. embarassment for use is tantamount to torture to them

dont forget wrappnig in the israeli flag

I hadn't heard that one.

and welcoem to the real world people, different areas have different societies, and all thsoe societies arnt jsut like ours with the same beleifs and traditions. embarassment for use is tantamount to torture to them

Something most people tend to forget. Most of these acts (minus the broomstick raping and toilet-eating perhaps) occur in fraternity houses in the states on a regular basis. It just doesn't sound that bad to your typical non-Muslim American. However, that doesn't mean that it isn't.

Don't these soldiers take an oath?, their shouldn't be any rogue soldiers.

Yes they do. Sadly like in any organization, some people break their oaths. These soldiers broke their oaths

dont forget wrappnig in the israeli flag

and welcoem to the real world people, different areas have different societies, and all thsoe societies arnt jsut like ours with the same beleifs and traditions. embarassment for use is tantamount to torture to them

Oh cry me a fucking river. By that same token I can say eating anything other than the finest quality five star meal is torture. Embarrassment is not tantamount to torture. Period.

oh yes because the same shit isnt happening at every other major facility we are running for these people. the FBI has shit on it and people who have gone in undercover ahve shit on it, and its gonna come out and your gonna look like a moron

and who has been beheaded in the last month? i dont recall alot of people actually being beheaded

Its not happening at every major facility. The FBI does not have any shit on it. I don't know whose been beheaded in the last month, but I don't know of any prison abuse scandals in the last month either. I do seem to recall something about Iraqi insurgents blowing themselves up and killing their fellow civilian Iraqis though. Yeah, we need to be careful and play nice with these people.

The people abused do not deserve any human rights. They dress as civilians, invade a civilian area and attempt to kill as many people as possible. They are not soldiers. They are not freedom fighters. They are cowards who can not even take upon themselves the responsibility of putting on a uniform to guarantee them their rights. Instead they wear plainclothes and act in secret.

Something most people tend to forget. Most of these acts (minus the broomstick raping and toilet-eating perhaps) occur in fraternity houses in the states on a regular basis. It just doesn't sound that bad to your typical non-Muslim American. However, that doesn't mean that it isn't.

Also, the specific type of humiliation and sacrilige inflicted upon the prisoners require a detail of study and insight into Islam that most Islamaphobes will simply not bother to look up. Keep in mind that they were tailor made for the fairly devout Muslim.

If in a hypothetical situation Iraqos somehow captured Christian American soldiers and forced them to sodomize each other or relieve themselves on a Crucifix, then you can possibly imagine the degree of humiliation and anger the prisoners feel.

Oh cry me a fucking river. By that same token I can say eating anything other than the finest quality five star meal is torture. Embarrassment is not tantamount to torture. Period.


When it is against everything you believe in, against your personal religious convictions, then yes it is torture. Not all torture is physical, and sometimes it pays to be understanding.
And little tip, there is a difference between eating lower quality food and being forced to eat something that goes against everything you stand for.

The crimes at Abu Ghraib were a terrible thing, no doubt. But murder, rape, sodomy? No. The worst treatment was embarassing and abusive things. Nothing on the scale you mentioned has been reported by any media or military outlet that I am aware of.

then you weren't paying attention.

They are cowards who can not even take upon themselves the responsibility of putting on a uniform to guarantee them their rights. Instead they wear plainclothes and act in secret.

I suppose the French resistance were cowards too eh?

Oh cry me a fucking river. By that same token I can say eating anything other than the finest quality five star meal is torture. Embarrassment is not tantamount to torture. Period.
sadly, people like this guy arnt neutered and legally stopped from having children or being around anyone impressionable. have you eve been out of the US? have you ever been outside a WESTERN culture? i submit you have not



Its not happening at every major facility. The FBI does not have any shit on it. I don't know whose been beheaded in the last month, but I don't know of any prison abuse scandals in the last month either. I do seem to recall something about Iraqi insurgents blowing themselves up and killing their fellow civilian Iraqis though. Yeah, we need to be careful and play nice with these people.
there havnt been any prison abbuses in the last month because we have to DISCOVER Them that takes a while but the beheadings are released to NEWS ORGANIZATIONS and on teh web IMMEDIATELY, and yes, ACLU has been grabbing tons of shit through the FIA for a suit, and alot of it is coming down from the FBI inside the prisons

and oh yes, because being rough with them and showing that we hate them and are willigg to kill them is REALLY working. listen here sherlock, maybe if we treated them with RESPECT we would get respect, thats how it works in parts of the world where everybody isnt principally trying to cut each others throats just to get ahead

The people abused do not deserve any human rights.
then anyone being beheaded deserves to be beheaded

oh yes because the same shit isnt happening at every other major facility we are running for these people. the FBI has shit on it and people who have gone in undercover ahve shit on it, and its gonna come out and your gonna look like a moron

and who has been beheaded in the last month? i dont recall alot of people actually being beheaded

If my kid was over there and they had to torture some of these people to get the info to keep him or her from being killed, I would volunteer to help. Oh my, they made them eat out of a toilet!! Oh gross, they made them eat pork!! Oh the inhumanity, they made them build human pyramids naked. Were these the actions of our best? No. But get a grip on reality. Things like this happen, and I don't doubt for a minute that some of it is encouraged by our brass as it always has been.

Who has been beheaded in the last month? Oh, a few dozen Iraqis. How many people have to be slaughtered like this for it to really count? 1, 100, 1000, 100,000??? Have you ever seen one of these butcheries? Google it and take a look. I'll get naked and drink toilet water with a pygmy on my back any day rather than die like that. Also, while you're ranting about the actions of a few misfit soldiers, think what Margaret Hassan went through when they beheaded her.

Our people are being beheaded by these infidel savages.
Get over it. Yes it was a horrible thing. Yes it was disgusting. BUT IT WAS A FEW ROGUE INVADERS! The liberal media made it seem way worse than it already was.

Get over it. Yes it was a horrible thing. Yes it was disgusting. BUT IT WAS A FEW ROGUE INVADERS! The liberal media made it seem way worse than it already was.
oh yeh which is why it has happened in more places than one by mroe than the same people

Oh cry me a fucking river. By that same token I can say eating anything other than the finest quality five star meal is torture. Embarrassment is not tantamount to torture. Period.

This was not simple embarrassment.

The people abused do not deserve any human rights.

*All* people deserve human rights.

If my kid was over there and they had to torture some of these people to get the info to keep him or her from being killed, I would volunteer to help.

Good to know that you believe that the ends always justify the means. Drooping to a low level is fine as long as it is in response to a low level.

Good to know that you believe that the ends always justify the means. Drooping to a low level is fine as long as it is in response to a low level.

The end does not always justify the means, but in this case I feel it does. We're not fighting a military that observes the internationally accepted rules of war. It's a rag-tag bunch of multi-national thugs that prey on the weak and defenseless. If it takes stooping to measures that they understand, then that is what has to be done. What ever gave you the idea that war was civilized?

The end does not always justify the means, but in this case I feel it does. We're not fighting a military that observes the internationally accepted rules of war. It's a rag-tag bunch of multi-national thugs that prey on the weak and defenseless. If it takes stooping to measures that they understand, then that is what has to be done. What ever gave you the idea that war was civilized?

If you must become like your enemy in order to defeat them, then your enemy has won. That they do not follow internationally accepted rules of war and treatment of prisoners is no excuse for the US to do the same.

If you must become like your enemy in order to defeat them, then your enemy has won. That they do not follow internationally accepted rules of war and treatment of prisoners is no excuse for the US to do the same.

Our actions have in no way approached the brutality of our enemy. Like comparing apples to hand grenades. If you have read some of the analysis of the mentality driving these thugs, then you know that you have to stoop to a lower level to make them understand. Death doesn't do it...they are suicidal in their mission. Humiliation they understand. Sometimes you have to smack the mule between the eyes to get its attention.

Our actions have in no way approached the brutality of our enemy. Like comparing apples to hand grenades. If you have read some of the analysis of the mentality driving these thugs, then you know that you have to stoop to a lower level to make them understand. Death doesn't do it...they are suicidal in their mission. Humiliation they understand. Sometimes you have to smack the mule between the eyes to get its attention.
they arnt suicidal to be suicidal, they are suicidal because they believe something comes of it, ITS THEIR SOCIETY. we are tailoring there "embarassments" so that we are offending their religion and cultur, it is tantamonut to torture, maybe worse than it.

maybe they should capture you and sodomise you with a crucifix, and have you desecrate the bible?

pretending every culture is like ours is quite frankly fucking stupid

I suppose the French resistance were cowards too eh?

A. The French resistance were acting on behalf of a democratic government structure

B. The resistance were recognized by the allies (something the insurgency is not)

C. Le Resistance did not go out of their way to murder French civilians, or attack wedding parties, or behead people on film.

D. The United States army, much unlike the German army, does not have a habit of locking entire rural villages in the local church or a local barn and burning them all. Nor do we send captured insurgents to death camps in another occupied territory.

False analogy- Fallacy of logic

Get over it. Yes it was a horrible thing. Yes it was disgusting. BUT IT WAS A FEW ROGUE INVADERS! The liberal media made it seem way worse than it already was.

Another false analogy... good God, learn to argue reasonably.

A. The French resistance were acting on behalf of a democratic government structure

B. The resistance were recognized by the allies (something the insurgency is not)

C. Le Resistance did not go out of their way to murder French civilians, or attack wedding parties, or behead people on film.

D. The United States army, much unlike the German army, does not have a habit of locking entire rural villages in the local church or a local barn and burning them all. Nor do we send captured insurgents to death camps in another occupied territory.

False analogy- Fallacy of logic
i could be wrong, but last i checked cuba isnt in iraq, nor even that hemisphere of the world

and i do recall shooting wedding parties up and blasting buildings

B. The resistance were recognized by the allies (something the insurgency is not)
Oh. So it has to be recognized by the allies to make it legit?
And I'm the one who has a faulty analogy? Bwahahaha...

Another false analogy... good God, learn to argue reasonably.
Blalalala...god God. Learn to STFU. You and your false analogies.
The resistence needs to be recognized by the allies. Geeez.....

By that I meant by a legitimate government, preferrably a democracy... and despite their opposition to the war, I do not believe anyway democracy has expressed outright support or recognition of the sunni insurgency..

And please, using such a mocking tone is both childish and uncultured.

Our actions have in no way approached the brutality of our enemy. Like comparing apples to hand grenades.

You are making a comparison without taking the differences in culture and society into account.