NationStates Jolt Archive

All the Divinely Revealed religions speak of a Return, Baha'is believe that Day has come in the Manifestion of Baha'ullah. Agree or disagree?

JEWISH
The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me... You must listen to him."
--- MOSES- Deuteronomy 18:15 (NIV)

"I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man. He came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away. And his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed." --- Judaism- Daniel 7.13-14

CHRISTIAN
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken; then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."--- Matthew 24.29-31

"If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter... he shall teach you all things." --- JESUS- John 14

"Him that overcometh... I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the... new Jerusalem... and I will write upon him my new name." --- JESUS- Revelation 3

HINDU
"Whenever there is decay of righteousness... and there is exaltation of unrighteousness, then I Myself come forth... for the destruction of evil-doers, for the sake of firmly establishing righteousness, I am born from age to age." --- KRISHNA- Bhagavad Gita- fourth discourse

ISLAMIC
"And we gave Moses the Book, and after him sent succeeding Messengers: and We gave Jesus...the clear signs... and whensoever there came to you a Messenger with that your souls had not desire for, did you become arrogant, and some cry lies to, and some slay."
--- Muhammad- Quran 2 (the Cow)
"By those sent forth one after the other... Verily that which ye are promised is about to happen. So when the stars are blotted out, And when the sky is rent asunder... when the Messengers have a time set: For what Day is this being arranged? For the Day of Severance." --- Muhammad- Quran 77

BUDDHIST
"I am not the first Buddha who came upon earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a Holy One... He will reveal to you the same eternal truths which I have taught you... He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure; such as I now proclaim." ---BUDDHA- The Gospel of Buddha

"In those days, brethren, there will arise in the world an Exalted One named Metteya. He will be an Arahant, Fully Awakened, abounding in wisdom and goodness, happy, with knowledge of the worlds, unsurpassed as a guide to mortals willing to be led, a teacher for gods and men, an Exalted One, a Buddha, even as I am now... The Law, lovely in its origin, lovely in its progress, lovely in its consummation, will he proclaim, both in the spirit and in the letter; the higher life will he make known, in all its fullness and in all its purity, even as I do now. He will be accompanied by a congregation of some thousands of brethren, even as I am now accompanied by a congregation of some hundreds of brethren."--- BUDDHA- Digha Nikaya iii.76, Chakkavatti Sihanada Suttanta

"Listen attentively with one heart. A man whose spirit shines brightly, a man whose mind is completely unified, a man whose virtue excels everyone--such a man will truly appear in this world. When he preaches precious laws, all the people will totally be satisfied as if the thirsty drink sweet drops of rain from heaven. And each and every one will attain the path of liberation from struggles." --- Buddhism- Sutra of the Great Accomplishment of the Maitreya

Disagree. I like the principles that Baha'i live by, but I haven't seen any evidence of a god, so I am not religious.

Disagree. I like the principles that Baha'i live by, but I haven't seen any evidence of a god, so I am not religious.

No problem!!

Well, I personally think that the end days are near. I've been reading the book of Revelation. I think that the only option is to make peace with our Maker, which involves making peace with one another. You know, take care of all our worldly business, and then sort of sit back and wait for the Apocalypse.

who or what is Baha'ullah and what does it have to do with the end of the world being NOW?

GT4's coming out? Sweet!

Well, I personally think that the end days are near. I've been reading the book of Revelation. I think that the only option is to make peace with our Maker, which involves making peace with one another. You know, take care of all our worldly business, and then sort of sit back and wait for the Apocalypse.

What if the Apocalypse is the spiritual battle of recognising the Return of the new Prophet and not a physical battle?

who or what is Baha'ullah and what does it have to do with the end of the world being NOW?

Baha'u'llah is the Return of Christ, Muhammed and all other Divine Revelators of God's Message.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/bahai/

GT4's coming out? Sweet!

Huh??

Well, I personally think that the end days are near. I've been reading the book of Revelation. I think that the only option is to make peace with our Maker, which involves making peace with one another. You know, take care of all our worldly business, and then sort of sit back and wait for the Apocalypse.
No. Please, no. Do not put your faith in that, try to change the world so that the Day of Reckoning does not come! Unless you are a determinist, the future is not static!

Baha'u'llah is the Return of Christ, Muhammed and all other Divine Revelators of God's Message.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/bahai/
uh
this says that the guy founded bahai in the 19th century. so the returns of jesus et al, came and went and left us behind?

nope i dont find that likely at all.

What if the Apocalypse is the spiritual battle of recognising the Return of the new Prophet and not a physical battle?

Doesn't really matter. My same principle holds true.

Though, recognizing the true Prophet might be a little tough. How could we tell Him from the Anti-Christ?

Ah, whatever. My point is that it doesn't really matter. Really, I'll probably just die, at which point I'll still be glad I've made peace with my Maker.

No. Please, no. Do not put your faith in that, try to change the world so that the Day of Reckoning does not come! Unless you are a determinist, the future is not static!

I think we can really only put it off. Because we're all going to die you know.

Besides, my post was mostly metaphorical. All you have to do is try your best to be a good person, and I can't ask anything more of anyone else.

What a pleasantly open-minded religion! I like it. Pity it probably won't last. :(

What a pleasantly open-minded religion! I like it. Pity it probably won't last. :(

Won't last? Let's see 1844 until today, how many years is that? The Islamic fanatics in Persia tried to stop it by killing many thousands. The Islamic Revolutionaries killed hundreds. Baha'u'llah was exhiled to Acca--near Haifa and kept in prison. And still it spread around the world. How do you stop the Nightingale of Paradise from warbling?

uh
this says that the guy founded bahai in the 19th century. so the returns of jesus et al, came and went and left us behind?

nope i dont find that likely at all.

Isn't that what happened the first time Jesus came?

I was sort of reminded of one of those nutjobs who stands on the street corner shouting "JEZUS IS COMING!" Turning to religious scripture that probably wasn't really meant to be taken literally or was written for some ulterior motive is a flawed idea anyway.

Check out Exit Mundi sometime; they explain the end of the world through the eyes of the Hindus, Christians, and Muslims. The Hindu scenario was written as a pro-establishment piece, meant to reinforce the caste system. The Christian piece was intended as a way of inspiring hope for a religion that was, at the time, a persecuted minority. Of course, when Christians became the majority in the Roman empire, the scenario was often taken literally and caused more harm than good. Not to mention, people have thought the end of the world was coming since the day Jesus died, and so far it seems to have gone on.

I have no reason to believe that anything in a religious text will predict the end of the world. I honestly can't say what will, but something a little more natural will do it.

Won't last? Let's see 1844 until today, how many years is that? The Islamic fanatics in Persia tried to stop it by killing many thousands. The Islamic Revolutionaries killed hundreds. Baha'u'llah was exhiled to Acca--near Haifa and kept in prison. And still it spread around the world. How do you stop the Nightingale of Paradise from warbling?

It's too peaceful and harmonious. It will either change or be squashed. 160 years isn't exactly a long time by religious standards. The only relatively major religion that is also about that age is Mormonism.

On the Other hand, like Queen Victoria said(smart lady), if it's the Will of God, it'll endure. That would be nice. :)

I was sort of reminded of one of those nutjobs who stands on the street corner shouting "JEZUS IS COMING!" Turning to religious scripture that probably wasn't really meant to be taken literally or was written for some ulterior motive is a flawed idea anyway.

Check out Exit Mundi sometime; they explain the end of the world through the eyes of the Hindus, Christians, and Muslims. The Hindu scenario was written as a pro-establishment piece, meant to reinforce the caste system. The Christian piece was intended as a way of inspiring hope for a religion that was, at the time, a persecuted minority. Of course, when Christians became the majority in the Roman empire, the scenario was often taken literally and caused more harm than good. Not to mention, people have thought the end of the world was coming since the day Jesus died, and so far it seems to have gone on.

I have no reason to believe that anything in a religious text will predict the end of the world. I honestly can't say what will, but something a little more natural will do it.

Please understand that the Baha'i teachings do not predict the end of the world; rather, the begining of the new world.

Well, personally I feel that all of those passages pertain to Muhammed(pbuh).

The stars have not been blotted out and the sky has not been rent asunder, so the day is not upon us. I don't hold it against you, though, as I know your religion to be one of peace and brotherhood. Just don't hold against me mine. :)

Well, I personally think that the end days are near. I've been reading the book of Revelation. I think that the only option is to make peace with our Maker, which involves making peace with one another. You know, take care of all our worldly business, and then sort of sit back and wait for the Apocalypse.

Ah dude, look at the first page of Revelations, it says all this shall take place in the generation of Christ. The generation of Jesus passed away over 1900 years ago. What did happen during the generation of Jesus was the destruction of ancient Judea, after two revolts by men whom at the time were widely believed to be the Messiah.

The 1st revolt was led by a man named Bar Hokma. When the Romans finally cornered his army his own solders threw him on their spiked defenses when they realized he wasn't the Messiah. The 2nd was a revolt led by Bar Ha Kodesh. He by the way is a current Jewish hero, and in modern times they play down the false Messiah bit. He's the guy who held off the Roman Army on Mount Massada.

There is a far greater possibility that the writer was actually describing his current events using code words that wouldn't get picked up by the Romans who had a oppressive system of intelligence agents through out the empire..

GT4's coming out? Sweet!

now theres something I can worship

How do you stop the Nightingale of Paradise from warbling?
Use as raw material for the poladsian national dish: Nightingale Pie with Cheddar and Apples?

Well, personally I feel that all of those passages pertain to Muhammed(pbuh).

The stars have not been blotted out and the sky has not been rent asunder, so the day is not upon us. I don't hold it against you, though, as I know your religion to be one of peace and brotherhood. Just don't hold against me mine. :)

Muhammed warns us in the Quran to not take words that are meant to be allegorical in a strict literal sense. If Baha'u'llah is who he says He is then the attempts to suppress Him could be thought of as the stars being blotted out. When the Bab (the first trumpet blast) was martyred by the Muslim authorities couldn't that be considered the heavens being rent asunder.

How do you stop the Nightingale of Paradise from warbling?
Minor surgery to remove its vocal chords. Not too difficult, but it would require some really tiny tools.

Minor surgery to remove its vocal chords. Not too difficult, but it would require some really tiny tools.

You know I am so glad that I added the line about the Nightingale of Paradise so that some people can make these comments and keep the thread active.

You know I am so glad that I added the line about the Nightingale of Paradise so that some people can make these comments and keep the thread active.
Me too, the rest of the thread has been pretty funny so far. Let the good times roll!

You know I am so glad that I added the line about the Nightingale of Paradise so that some people can make these comments and keep the thread active.
Aren't you though?

By the way, I'd feed it crackers. It's impossible to warble with a mouthful of dry crackers. *nod*

Aren't you though?

By the way, I'd feed it crackers. It's impossible to warble with a mouthful of dry crackers. *nod*
Also: Peanut Butter

GT4's coming out? Sweet!
Just pretend it doesn't exist. That way the set backs won't be so frustrating and when it does come out it will be joyous.

I saw a tv add for it the other day.

anyway, back to the actual topic....

Muhammed warns us in the Quran to not take words that are meant to be allegorical in a strict literal sense. If Baha'u'llah is who he says He is then the attempts to suppress Him could be thought of as the stars being blotted out. When the Bab (the first trumpet blast) was martyred by the Muslim authorities couldn't that be considered the heavens being rent asunder.

Granted, it could be looked at that way. I personally, however, do not.

And that's ok.

Isn't that what happened the first time Jesus came?
when i say its not likely, its not because its unlikely that this guy is some kind of messiah sent by god (although i think that its unlikely for other reasons) but because when jesus returns he is supposed to take all good people to heaven (or to establish his kingdom here on earth) so your guy came and went so he wasn't jesus. well.....unless we are the pathetic left-behinds.

2012

I personally now believe that the so-called Second Coming, for example, isn't so much a physical second coming of Christ or whoever, but instead, it is time of complete realization of the Christ-Self within us all.

Baha'u'llah is the Return of Christ, Muhammed and all other Divine Revelators of God's Message.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/bahai/


Sort of like when they all met in the spirit land for Sun Myung Moon's conference?

And god just sent a letter to be read?

when i say its not likely, its not because its unlikely that this guy is some kind of messiah sent by god (although i think that its unlikely for other reasons) but because when jesus returns he is supposed to take all good people to heaven (or to establish his kingdom here on earth) so your guy came and went so he wasn't jesus. well.....unless we are the pathetic left-behinds.

I am not sure which verses you are refering to here, but I think it is safe to say Jesus was speaking with a spiritual voice with spiritual meanings when he spoke of taking people to heaven. Establishing His kingdom on earth probably has spiritual and physical meanings.

Wait, I'm lost.

Why is the End here again? I see passages, but no explanation of why the End is here.

After reading Revelations, I do believe the End is very near, but I do not know why the End is here. Please elaborate.

Wait, I'm lost.

Why is the End here again? I see passages, but no explanation of why the End is here.

After reading Revelations, I do believe the End is very near, but I do not know why the End is here. Please elaborate.

I think the thread header says that "The Promised Day is Come" not the End is here. You can look at it as the End or the Begining if you want. If you think of the the End as the end of an age. What Baha'u'llah does is fulfille the prophecies of all the divinely revealed religions of the past. The new city of the Book of Revelations has come down in the form of the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

"We are told in the Holy Scripture that the New Jerusalem shall appear on earth. Now it is evident that this celestial city is not built of material stones and mortar, but that it is a city not made with hands, eternal in the Heavens.

This is a prophetic symbol, meaning the coming again of the Divine Teaching to enlighten the hearts of men. It is long since this Holy Guidance has governed the lives of humanity. But now, at last, the Holy City of the New Jerusalem has come again to the world, it has appeared anew under an Eastern sky; from the horizon of Persia has its effulgence arisen to be a light to lighten the whole world. We see in these days the fulfilment of the Divine Prophecy. Jerusalem had disappeared. The heavenly city was destroyed, now it is rebuilt; it was razed to the ground, but now its walls and pinnacles have been restored, and are towering aloft in their renewed and glorious beauty.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 83)

Well if you think the end days are coming, who do you think is the anti-christ??

Well if you think the end days are coming, who do you think is the anti-christ??

The anti-christ is that person who tries to subvert and destroy the Message of Baha'u'llah. There was one in the history of the Baha'i Faith. He caused great harm to the Baha'i Faith at the time, but is no longer alive and that difficult time has passed.

"We do not believe in Anti-Christ in the sense the Christians do. Anyone who violently and determinedly sought to oppose the Manifestation could be called an "anti-Christ," such as the Vazir in the Báb's day, Haji Mirza Aqasi.

(Shoghi Effendi, High Endeavours - Messages to Alaska, p. 69)

So do the Baha'i recognize the Revelation? Muslims do not. We recognize the Divinity of the Gospel, the life and teachings of Isa (Jesus), but the epistles and revelation are perversions of the Gospel.

Well if you think the end days are coming, who do you think is the anti-christ??

I'm not of Baha'i faith, but I personally believe George W. Bush is the anti-christ. You probably think I'm crazy, but I don't care. I know it's him. I see right through him.

I'm not of Baha'i faith, but I personally believe George W. Bush is the anti-christ. You probably think I'm crazy, but I don't care. I know it's him. I see right through him.

If that primes your pump.

So do the Baha'i recognize the Revelation? Muslims do not. We recognize the Divinity of the Gospel, the life and teachings of Isa (Jesus), but the epistles and revelation are perversions of the Gospel.

We recognize that the NT was inspired by God. We also realize that the events were over 2k yrs ago some things, events, words whatever could not be reproduced exactly as it happened. That is just what happens with time and the conditions of the age. With the care given to the utterances of Muhammed the Quran became the most accurate representation of what God's Messenger revealed. When Baha'u'llah came He either wrote the words down himself or someone was writing them down as He spoke and He would correct it later.

We recognize that the NT was inspired by God. We also realize that the events were over 2k yrs ago some things, events, words whatever could not be reproduced exactly as it happened. That is just what happens with time and the conditions of the age. With the care given to the utterances of Muhammed the Quran became the most accurate representation of what God's Messenger revealed. When Baha'u'llah came He either wrote the words down himself or someone was writing them down as He spoke and He would correct it later.

Groovy. Okie. :) Just askin'. I don't know a lot about the Baha'i or their faith. I do know that some of my more, anti-social shall we say, brothers have been less than proper with those of the Baha'i faith in places like Iran and, for that, I can only extend my deepest of apologies and assure you that such behaviour is not decreed by Qur'an.

I am, however, willing to learn.

Groovy. Okie. :) Just askin'. I don't know a lot about the Baha'i or their faith. I do know that some of my more, anti-social shall we say, brothers have been less than proper with those of the Baha'i faith in places like Iran and, for that, I can only extend my deepest of apologies and assure you that such behaviour is not decreed by Qur'an.

I am, however, willing to learn.

I understand fully that what has happened in the past and still happens in Iran doesn't represent the teachings of Muhammed or the Qur'an. It really is propagated by the most fanatical, conservative Mullah's and Imam's. The vast majority of people in Iran did not participate in or approve of what happened, especially the outbreaks of violence and blood-letting in the 80's. There was a Divine Purpose to those terrible times because even though the intent was to destroy the Baha'i Faith it failed in that attempt and Baha'u'llah's name and teachings became much better known around the world. I have friends who lost family members in Iran in the 80's--there are some very sad storys.

Here is a quote from Abdu'l Baha, the eldest son of Baha'u'llah that helps explain the concept of humans being made in God's image. There is so much more if anyone is interested.


In the Old Testament we read that God said, 'Let us make man in Our own image'. In the Gospel, Christ said, 'I am in the Father, and the Father in Me'.[1] In the Qur'án, God says, 'Man is my Mystery and I am his'. Bahá'u'lláh writes that God says, 'Thy heart is My home; purify it for My descent. Thy spirit is My place of revelation; cleanse it for My manifestation'.
[1 St. John xiv, II ]

All these sacred words show us that man is made in God's image: yet the Essence of God is incomprehensible to the human mind, for the finite understanding cannot be applied to this infinite Mystery. God contains all: He cannot be contained. That which contains is superior to that which is contained. The whole is greater than its parts.

Things which are understood by men cannot be outside their capacity for understanding, so that it is impossible for the heart of man to comprehend the nature of the Majesty of God. Our imagination can only picture that which it is able to create.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 23)