NationStates Jolt Archive

First off, this is not a general address to ALL liberals on NS. You should have a good idea of who this is targeted at. For those who dont, Im speaking the the disciples of MKULTRA.

Just curious, but has it occured to anybody on the forum here that these temrs can be just as hurtful and offensive as ****** or 'spic?
Im serious. A large amount of the people who most often post rants about how evil Bush is attempting to cause descrimination seem to be convienced that EVERYBODY who is a conservative automaticaly:
a. Supports Bush
b. Is a Jesuit
c. Its from the 'deep south' and is a racist

As a centrist conservative, Baptist, born in Mississippi, how do you think I view these comments and stereotypes?
IM sick and tired of these topics claiming that ALL conservatives and Christains (I say Christians because I have yet to see a topic blaming anything on, for example, Zoroastians) are automaticaly horrible people who hate gays, want slaves, and/or burn witches at the stake.
Aside from some historical innacuracies (No witch burnings in the US), it seems a bit hypocritical to claim that while Michael Moore doesnt represent the Democrats, Limbaugh is clearly the spokesperson of the Republicans.

So,
First off, I DO support Bush. Im not going to go into reasons for this because I dont want a thread about how much Bush sucks.

Second off, as I said, Im a Baptist. As far as I know, most of my ancestors lived in a small village in Ireland and grew potatoes, until they left for America, apparently they wanted to avoid the whole Catholic/Protestant thing, and there was a bit with the potatoes.

Third, I was born in Mississippi, as I said again, anybody want to hold it against me?
This is apparently another case where its acceptable to descriminate against people. As we all know, if your from a southern state, your a hic who most likely your mothers brother or something. Could it just be possible that, while a good deal of the south is racist, but alot of them are also kind people, and generaly alot nicer than, random example, somebody who lives in a Chicago suburb?

And of course, I realize that much of my 'audience' is even more set in their views than I am. Fine. Whatever, Im tired and grouchy right now, so if you want to flame the middle-aged white Christian souther-born Arizonian, go for it.

I agree. This is stereotyping in its finest. However, hurtful stereoptying is not only afflicting conservatives, it is a universal human disease. Do you seriously think that we liberals and environmentalists don't get our own fair share of prejudice? Granted, I have noticed a liberal tilt on this board, but conservatives are not alone, certainly not.

You sound just fine to me! :D

Out of curiosity, who the heck ever called Bush-supporters Jesuits? That's just dumb.

First off, *snip*
'

Hmmm Racism, Mississippi?, racism, Mississippi? There seems to be a match there! :p

You shouldn't be so senstive about it. Most people when that bash Christians, they are only talking about the jackass types like Phelps and the ones that want books censored, and the 10 commandments everywhere.

The athiests seem to like to push buttons....

Sure no witches burned but a few midwives were hanged.....

Much of the hostility are to the Christian Conservatives that have taken over the Republican party so unless you are one of those, you don't have to worry about anything. ;)

Oh, I would also like to add that a stereoptype of my own was broken recently. Yes, it is surprising what despicable traits you can find in yourself that you weren't aware of. For me, it was Evangelicals. I saw the Evangelical on "The Daily Show", and realised that they weren't all rabid Bible thumpers. Foam and all. Granted, I believe he is in the minority, but I agreed with him on so much, and it was incredibly disconcerting. I no longer am prejudiced against Evangelicals, and I am happy about that. Once again it has just shown me that I'm not anti-religionism, just anti-religionist.

I was just addressing the people who do it on a daily basis, arguement is fine, even a bit of stereotyping is acceptable, its nearly unavoidable, and the board would be pretty boring if everybody went through all their posts and removed all the stereotypes, then who could we nitpick?

And yes, the conservative stereotypers (The actual 'neocons' and fundies) are just as bad as the Moore clones. Its just a matter of the local demographics on NS. More liberals = more extreme liberals = more conservative stereotyping = more complaining moderates.
Its a vicious cycle.

And of course, I realize that much of my 'audience' is even more set in their views than I am. Fine. Whatever, Im tired and grouchy right now, so if you want to flame the middle-aged white Christian souther-born Arizonian, go for it.

Don't worry about it. Just remember: those types who use these terms are the reason we won the last election so overwhelmingly.

The wing of the democrat party that calls any Christian a "fundamentalist" who holds anything less than a wholly relativistic ethical perspective helped us enormously, particularly in motivating religious voters tired of being demonized by radical elements.

I'd gues 3/4 of democrats using the term "neo-con" couldn't give you an accurate contrasting description of traditional and more modern conservatisim to save their lives. The term is normally used as a way of saying "a conservative I particularly hate." As in, "Don Rumsfeld is the worst Neo-Con of them all." Again, the hate helped us in the end.

As long as the other side continues to see religious people as their political enemies, and keeps their understanding of doctrine at such a level, we'll continue to win, no doubt. :)

Its a vicious cycle.
Ahh, nothing like wonderful positive feedback!

There's plenty of conservatives and Republicans on this board.
There's also a lot of libertarians who support many conservative ideas, although not entirely.

Steretypes exist because people live up to them, unfortunately. They're not going to go away soon.

MKULTRA has disciples? And here I thought he just had puppets.

Don't worry about it. Just remember: those types who use these terms are the reason we won the last election so overwhelmingly.Did we watch the same election?

I think that some of the more radical liberals and christian haters on NS are quite simply bratty kids. No adult would argue some of the things that are argued here. I have a lot of good friends who are very well read people with liberal views. I am a well read christian with mostly conservative views and we have some great conversations. Yet when you try to have that kind of conversation here discussing conflicting views and trying to understand each others views, you end up being called an intolerant bigot. And by page 8 or 9, you are a nazi homophobe, and it gets worse and worse the longer it goes on.

Did we watch the same election?

By "We," I don't simply mean President Bush. ;)

Bush only won by 3.5 million votes.. but we saw some profound progress across the board. 6 out of 7 Senate races, the defeat of Tom Daschle, gouvenatorial pickups, gains in the House, etc.

Whatever, Im tired and grouchy right now, so if you want to flame the middle-aged white Christian souther-born Arizonian, go for it.

Arizona is hot enough without flaming you. Or burning you a the stake, for that matter.

As long as the other side continues to see religious people as their political enemies, and keeps their understanding of doctrine at such a level, we'll continue to win, no doubt. :)

Wasn't this thread to an attempt to do away with stereotyping? In fact some of us liberals are very religous.

Arizona is hot enough without flaming you. Or burning you a the stake, for that matter.
Actually, its quite cold right now. Winter and all. Y'see, theres no humidity to hold the heat, so during winter it gets really, really cold.
See? YOUR STEREOTYPING! *causes pain*

ON a serious note:
I think I did this wrong. I should have included a political flame in the first part of the post, because none of the people I was targetting have showed.

when conservatives stop using "liberal," "intellectual," and "elite" as smears, then i will start caring if the terms "fundie" or "Bushie" hurt your feelings. as for "neocon," that is not an insulting term; the neoconservative movement is a recognized political faction, referred to by its own members as neoconservative. to simply shorten that to "neocon" is not insulting or offensive, unless you feel that neoconservativism itself is offensive and don't wish it to be applied to you. if your political beliefs fit with the definition of neoconservativism there is no reason why you should feel insulted by "neocon."

as for negative views about the South, i am guilty as charged. the stats speak for themselves, and i generally have a low opinion of anybody reared and educated in the South because their educational and cultural fascilities are notoriously poor. now, that said, i attend school with a group of people who are mostly Southern, and they are all extremely intelligent and capable; i don't cling to any negative view of Southerners in particular, i simply don't give them quite as much credit right off the bat. that's prejudiced of me, and i am fully aware that it is unfair and wrong, but it's my feelings...i can do my best to counter them with logic, and i try to do so, but the feelings will still be my knee-jerk reaction.

finally, in terms of contempt for Christians being unfair, i believe that any person who believes in the Christian faith is inherently less trustworthy and less interesting then they would be otherwise. it's like how i view racists; you can be a very smart, fun, friendly person, but if you hold racist beliefs i am never going to like you as much as i would if you didn't hold those beliefs. i can still be friends with Christians, even come to respect them, but i will never respect their religious beliefs, and i will always mourn the great person that they will never become while clinging to those beliefs.

when conservatives stop using "liberal," "intellectual," and "elite" as smears, then i will start caring if the terms "fundie" or "Bushie" hurt your feelings. as for "neocon," that is not an insulting term; the neoconservative movement is a recognized political faction, referred to by its own members as neoconservative. to simply shorten that to "neocon" is not insulting or offensive, unless you feel that neoconservativism itself is offensive and don't wish it to be applied to you. if your political beliefs fit with the definition of neoconservativism there is no reason why you should feel insulted by "neocon."

as for negative views about the South, i am guilty as charged. the stats speak for themselves, and i generally have a low opinion of anybody reared and educated in the South because their educational and cultural fascilities are notoriously poor. now, that said, i attend school with a group of people who are mostly Southern, and they are all extremely intelligent and capable; i don't cling to any negative view of Southerners in particular, i simply don't give them quite as much credit right off the bat. that's prejudiced of me, and i am fully aware that it is unfair and wrong, but it's my feelings...i can do my best to counter them with logic, and i try to do so, but the feelings will still be my knee-jerk reaction.

finally, in terms of contempt for Christians being unfair, i believe that any person who believes in the Christian faith is inherently less trustworthy and less interesting then they would be otherwise. it's like how i view racists; you can be a very smart, fun, friendly person, but if you hold racist beliefs i am never going to like you as much as i would if you didn't hold those beliefs. i can still be friends with Christians, even come to respect them, but i will never respect their religious beliefs, and i will always mourn the great person that they will never become while clinging to those beliefs.


Your whole rant was what the topic creator was talking about. You are a typical left-wing fanatic. You just bashed conservatism, the South, and Christianity in one stereotypical, ignorant post

finally, in terms of contempt for Christians being unfair, i believe that any person who believes in the Christian faith is inherently less trustworthy and less interesting then they would be otherwise. it's like how i view racists; you can be a very smart, fun, friendly person, but if you hold racist beliefs i am never going to like you as much as i would if you didn't hold those beliefs. i can still be friends with Christians, even come to respect them, but i will never respect their religious beliefs, and i will always mourn the great person that they will never become while clinging to those beliefs.
Now this is completely unfair, though I do see where you're coming from. But what are think of are the fundamentalist Christians, as there are plenty of Christians who you would not be able to tell they believe in the Bible without them saying so. As long as people treat religion more figuratively than literally, it is not necessarily bad.

while i have no problem with your not liking the stereotyping of conservatives. after all, *I* dont like it when people from other countries stereotype ME as the same thing because bush got re-elected....

you need to get some thicker skin if the words "fundie" "bushy" and "neocon" give you great pain. as offensive words go they are rather mild.

Your whole rant was what the topic creator was talking about. You are a typical left-wing fanatic. You just bashed conservatism, the South, and Christianity in one stereotypical, ignorant post
actually, i am not left wing, and i have more in common with today's conservatives than with today's liberals. but hey, nice try on that stereotyping. :)

when conservatives stop using "liberal," "intellectual," and "elite" as smears, then i will start caring if the terms "fundie" or "Bushie" hurt your feelings. as for "neocon," that is not an insulting term; the neoconservative movement is a recognized political faction, referred to by its own members as neoconservative. to simply shorten that to "neocon" is not insulting or offensive, unless you feel that neoconservativism itself is offensive and don't wish it to be applied to you. if your political beliefs fit with the definition of neoconservativism there is no reason why you should feel insulted by "neocon."
*snip*
Look, Neo-cons are just a cover for Fascists. They can't get anywhere in the land of Freedom because they eblieve in cutting all of them out...wait, they can if they call themselves Californian Democrats! I'm a Southern Baptist, white, anti-racist, male born and raised in Alabama. I've lived in the heart of the South my whole life and I've seen VERY FEW racist people, and I know at least 1000 people and have met even more. Most racist organizations here are pretty much dead.


*snip*
as for negative views about the South, i am guilty as charged. the stats speak for themselves, and i generally have a low opinion of anybody reared and educated in the South because their educational and cultural fascilities are notoriously poor. now, that said, i attend school with a group of people who are mostly Southern, and they are all extremely intelligent and capable; i don't cling to any negative view of Southerners in particular, i simply don't give them quite as much credit right off the bat. that's prejudiced of me, and i am fully aware that it is unfair and wrong, but it's my feelings...i can do my best to counter them with logic, and i try to do so, but the feelings will still be my knee-jerk reaction.
*snip*

Don't knock the South until you try it. I live in Alabama, and the educational system where I live is just as good if not better than 95% of the country. On my first try at the ACT last month, I made a 29 overall and a 34 on the SCIENCE portion (Junior in High School) . I'm using a computer, ain't I? That shows that we have a level of technology more then just pickup trucks and shotguns. The people in the South who live in crap conditions with little/no education are usually the Mexicans. The thing is, they have a better standard of living now then when they cam. After all, they have something to send home.



finally, in terms of contempt for Christians being unfair, i believe that any person who believes in the Christian faith is inherently less trustworthy and less interesting then they would be otherwise. it's like how i view racists; you can be a very smart, fun, friendly person, but if you hold racist beliefs i am never going to like you as much as i would if you didn't hold those beliefs. i can still be friends with Christians, even come to respect them, but i will never respect their religious beliefs, and i will always mourn the great person that they will never become while clinging to those beliefs.

You just don't understand, do ya? Discriminating against a religion is just as bad if not worse than on race. We could call you a Nazi because of that, and it would be true. Nazis believed that people of faith were less trustworthy because they actually believed in something other than what they were told by Big Brother. Why don't you believe in religion? What could it hurt? If it's wrong, and you followed it. then you would still live a good life in the eyes of your fellow man. If you're wrong, however, and religion is true, you'll sure as Hell know what you did wrong.

Now this is completely unfair, though I do see where you're coming from. But what are think of are the fundamentalist Christians, as there are plenty of Christians who you would not be able to tell they believe in the Bible without them saying so. As long as people treat religion more figuratively than literally, it is not necessarily bad.
why is it unfair? if i simply had expressed those feelings about people who hold racist beliefs you wouldn't be telling me it is unfair. if i said that i feel that way about people who believe the world is flat you wouldn't be telling me it is unfair. according to my system of belief, it is impossible to be a complete person if one believes in the tennets of the Christian faith; according to their beliefs, i will burn in Hell for all eternity because i do not accept Christ. i'd say that makes us even, and i don't see how my feelings can be considered unfair.

Don't knock the South until you try it. I live in Alabama, and the educational system where I live is just as good if not better than 95% of the country. On my first try at the ACT last month, I made a 29 overall and a 34 on the SCIENCE portion (Junior in High School) . I'm using a computer, ain't I? That shows that we have a level of technology more then just pickup trucks and shotguns. The people in the South who live in crap conditions with little/no education are usually the Mexicans. The thing is, they have a better standard of living now then when they cam. After all, they have something to send home.

as i said, i try to make my logic rule my feelings about the South. unfortunately, it is only recently that i began encountering Southerners who weren't walking stereotypes; until this last fall, the only Southerners i had met were people that lived up to all the negative images of the South. i am now trying to use my experience with more intelligent and rational Southerners to counter the experiences and information i have had until this time. as i said, i still have emotional reactions that are knee-jerk and (i admit) unfair, but it's one of those things a person works on.


You just don't understand, do ya? Discriminating against a religion is just as bad if not worse than on race.

i don't discriminate based on religion, and i specifically said as much. i believe freedom of religion should be guaranteed, and i have fought strongly in support of such freedoms on many occasions. i don't believe religious people should be maltreated or denied rights in any way.

yes, i believe that religious persons are misguided; most of them feel the same way about my beliefs. so what? it's very possible to disagree without endorsing discrimination, and that is exactly what i do. i may not like their beliefs, but that doesn't mean i support any form of discrimination against them because of my personal regard for their beliefs.


We could call you a Nazi because of that, and it would be true. Nazis believed that people of faith were less trustworthy because they actually believed in something other than what they were told by Big Brother.

that's a very weird and irrelevant parallel. it also isn't accurate. i'm just going to let that go, since people generally only bring up the term "Nazi" when they are trying to be inflamatory.


Why don't you believe in religion? What could it hurt? If it's wrong, and you followed it. then you would still live a good life in the eyes of your fellow man.
If you're wrong, however, and religion is true, you'll sure as Hell know what you did wrong.
Pascals wager is an utter and obvious falacy. i won't side track this thread by explaining why, but feel free to telegram me or start a new thread if you would like me to detail all the ways in which these statements of yours are flawed.

Look, Neo-cons are just a cover for Fascists.
Neoconservatism is certainly not fascist, since fascism requires economic authoritarianism. I would call them corporatist, which is basically just oligarichical fascism, instead of monarchical.

They can't get anywhere in the land of Freedom because they eblieve in cutting all of them out...wait, they can if they call themselves Californian Democrats!
It's funny that this thread is about false stereotyping...

I'm a Southern Baptist, white, anti-racist, male born and raised in Alabama.
Are you also a creationist or intelligent designist? Just curious, since I've never met a Southern Baptist who wasn't either of the above.

I live in Alabama, and the educational system where I live is just as good if not better than 95% of the country.
I have no statistics, but I'm pretty sure that that is not true, according to standardised testing (which I dislike, but it can be useful for information gathering). I know that where I live, Montgomery County, MD has the best educational system in the country. Typically costal and/or northern states have better educational systems.

The people in the South who live in crap conditions with little/no education are usually the Mexicans. The thing is, they have a better standard of living now then when they cam. After all, they have something to send home.
And here I was thinking you weren't racist.

We could call you a Nazi because of that, and it would be true. Nazis believed that people of faith were less trustworthy because they actually believed in something other than what they were told by Big Brother.
Umm...so sorry, but those were the Marxists...not the Nazis...

why is it unfair? if i simply had expressed those feelings about people who hold racist beliefs you wouldn't be telling me it is unfair. if i said that i feel that way about people who believe the world is flat you wouldn't be telling me it is unfair. according to my system of belief, it is impossible to be a complete person if one believes in the tennets of the Christian faith; according to their beliefs, i will burn in Hell for all eternity because i do not accept Christ. i'd say that makes us even, and i don't see how my feelings can be considered unfair.
Thats interesting, I didn't know that. Where would you find that out for Catholics (approx. 50% of all Christians)? I ask this because I'm a Catholic.

First off, this is not a general address to ALL liberals on NS. You should have a good idea of who this is targeted at. For those who dont, Im speaking the the disciples of MKULTRA.

While i'm not a discipline of Mkultra, I have found him to funny, accurate (few times but happens every once in a while), of decent character, and good debater though sometimes I wonder.

I'll debate your topic just because you used Liberals as a bad word. I'll defend my fellows in Liberty for Freedom of Speech is important. I may not agree with everything they say, but I'll fight for their right to say it.

Just curious, but has it occured to anybody on the forum here that these temrs can be just as hurtful and offensive as ****** or 'spic?
Im serious. A large amount of the people who most often post rants about how evil Bush is attempting to cause descrimination seem to be convienced that EVERYBODY who is a conservative automaticaly:

So Fundie(Fundamentalist), Bushy (meaning follows Bush), and Neo con (usually a accurate display of the opposing person's viewpoint) are bad words but they aren't as much as "Liberals" you are saying? You did say the L-word causaly thus you are a hypocrit or don't mind damning the practice you follow.
"Spic" is a term I hear is used on miexican...I don't know origen, but the N word was not always a bad term. Even today many Black indidivuals say to each other and even call white folks by the term. So its weird/unjust that only they can say it.

a. Supports Bush
b. Is a Jesuit
c. Its from the 'deep south' and is a racist

a. Most of them do so that stands. Even though Bush isn't a Conservative
b. Jesuit you mean those people who went to Japan to convert people? If you mean Christian (follow christ) than lately the Christian Right has taken over the Republican party. And Has yet to let go of it.
c. Many Racist and southerns are Repuiblicans. I'll admit not all racist are republicans because Hitler was just a Facist but he was on the right.
Many republicans treat Liberal as a race and act racist toward that word and people so the point kinda stands.


As a centrist conservative, Baptist, born in Mississippi, how do you think I view these comments and stereotypes?
IM sick and tired of these topics claiming that ALL conservatives and Christains (I say Christians because I have yet to see a topic blaming anything on, for example, Zoroastians) are automaticaly horrible people who hate gays, want slaves, and/or burn witches at the stake.
Aside from some historical innacuracies (No witch burnings in the US), it seems a bit hypocritical to claim that while Michael Moore doesnt represent the Democrats, Limbaugh is clearly the spokesperson of the Republicans.

Many religious people misinterpreted the Bible to say Slavery was legal, but they forgot you can't own a slave longer than 7 years in the OLD Testament bible (after that it is set free) if you are following it.

Limbaugh said he was Bush's Official Spokeperson on his show. When Bush on the show Bush said it too. So Till Bush is out of Office Bush is the spokesperson.
Micheal Moore has never hada show to do that. Miocheal Moore didn;t get called a Spokeperson by Kerry and Kery was not the Party leader anyway.
Now if Clinton had asked Moore to be his Spokesperson that would change everything.

So,
First off, I DO support Bush. Im not going to go into reasons for this because I dont want a thread about how much Bush sucks.

Second off, as I said, Im a Baptist. As far as I know, most of my ancestors lived in a small village in Ireland and grew potatoes, until they left for America, apparently they wanted to avoid the whole Catholic/Protestant thing, and there was a bit with the potatoes.

Okay so the Sterotype is accurate so far. You are A. a Bush supporter.
B. CHristian (follower of Christ). Did you know Irish Potatoes are from America not Ireland? Well its true.

Third, I was born in Mississippi, as I said again, anybody want to hold it against me?
This is apparently another case where its acceptable to descriminate against people. As we all know, if your from a southern state, your a hic who most likely your mothers brother or something. Could it just be possible that, while a good deal of the south is racist, but alot of them are also kind people, and generaly alot nicer than, random example, somebody who lives in a Chicago suburb?

And you fit bill three C. From South. And we don't know if your a racist but yu treat Liberals as a racist treats some races that don't like so we will say yeah.
You sir, are why that Sterotype exist. You fit every part of that bill.


And of course, I realize that much of my 'audience' is even more set in their views than I am. Fine. Whatever, Im tired and grouchy right now, so if you want to flame the middle-aged white Christian souther-born Arizonian, go for it.

Sure, why not you moved but yu stil fit the bill due to the three attributes you share with the sterotype.

It's funny that this thread is about false stereotyping...

It's not sterreotyping. I see it everytime I visit my Grandparent's. If there's one Mexican in their twon, there's 10,000 of them (the Tyson Chicken plant is there).


Are you also a creationist or intelligent designist? Just curious, since I've never met a Southern Baptist who wasn't either of the above.

Firm Creationist


I have no statistics, but I'm pretty sure that that is not true, according to standardised testing (which I dislike, but it can be useful for information gathering). I know that where I live, Montgomery County, MD has the best educational system in the country. Typically costal and/or northern states have better educational systems.

Ok, you have the #1 school system. I said top 5% didn't I?

according to my system of belief, it is impossible to be a complete person if one believes in the tennets of the Christian faith; according to their beliefs, i will burn in Hell for all eternity because i do not accept Christ. i'd say that makes us even, and i don't see how my feelings can be considered unfair.
That is where you're wrong. Those are the fundamentalist Christians, not Christians in general. That is, believe it or not, stereotyping. If that was requisite for Christians, then I would agree.

Thats interesting, I didn't know that. Where would you find that out for Catholics (approx. 50% of all Christians)? I ask this because I'm a Catholic.
Ephesians 2:8-9
Isaiah 64:6
John 1:12
Titus 3:5,6
John 6:47

The Catechism of the Catholic Church: "By his death and Resurrection, Jesus Christ has "opened' heaven to us. The life of the blessed consists in the full and perfect possession of the fruits of the redemption accomplished by Christ. He makes partners in his heavenly glorification those who have believed in him and remained faithful to his will. Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ" (n. 1026).

logically, those of use who will not be incorporated into Christ will not be in Heaven.

The New Testament presents the place destined for evildoers as a fiery furnace, where people will "weep and gnash their teeth" (Mt 13:42; cf. 25:30, 41), or like Gehenna with its "unquenchable fire" (Mk 9:43). The Book of Revelation also figuratively portrays in a "pool of fire" those who exclude themselves from the book of life, thus meeting with a "second death" (Rv. 20:13f.). Whoever continues to be closed to the Gospel is therefore preparing for 'eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thes 1:9).

The only alternative between Heaven and Hell is Purgatory. For those who find themselves in a condition of being open to God, but still imperfectly, the journey towards full beatitude requires a purification, which the faith of the Church illustrates in the doctrine of "Purgatory" (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 1030-1032). However, those who are not open to God will clearly never be qualified for this destination.


I took my citations and most of this material directly from L'Osservatore Romano, the newspaper of the Holy See.

as i said, i try to make my logic rule my feelings about the South. unfortunately, it is only recently that i began encountering Southerners who weren't walking stereotypes; until this last fall, the only Southerners i had met were people that lived up to all the negative images of the South. i am now trying to use my experience with more intelligent and rational Southerners to counter the experiences and information i have had until this time. as i said, i still have emotional reactions that are knee-jerk and (i admit) unfair, but it's one of those things a person works on.

I'm sorry that you haven't seen the Finest of the South. Maybe you should come to Huntsville, Alabama. We are literally a town of rocket scientists.


i don't discriminate based on religion, and i specifically said as much. i believe freedom of religion should be guaranteed, and i have fought strongly in support of such freedoms on many occasions. i don't believe religious people should be maltreated or denied rights in any way.

yes, i believe that religious persons are misguided; most of them feel the same way about my beliefs. so what? it's very possible to disagree without endorsing discrimination, and that is exactly what i do. i may not like their beliefs, but that doesn't mean i support any form of discrimination against them because of my personal regard for their beliefs.

Your words contradict each other. First you said all religion is BS (forgive me if I put words in your mouth, this is how it sounded to me), and you hate it all...but then you say you don't hate all religion.


Pascals wager is an utter and obvious falacy. i won't side track this thread by explaining why, but feel free to telegram me or start a new thread if you would like me to detail all the ways in which these statements of yours are flawed.

Ok, let me put it in simpler terms. You have a single shot pistol. You don't know if it's loaded and you can't open the breach. Your only way to tell is to shoot is. Would you rather shoot it in the air or point it at your head and fire? Well, if you value your life, you'd shoot it in the air. That is the same way I value my afterlife. I'd rather not take chances on something that could not happen and oesn't do a thing or could happen and damns me for all eternity.

Could it just be possible that, while a good deal of the south is racist, but alot of them are also kind people, and generaly alot nicer than, random example, somebody who lives in a Chicago suburb?
That's the point most liberals on this site are trying to make. You said it yourself. Most of the south is racist. How can you claim that hate-filled people are also nice? Maybe they are to other whites, but what about blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. and is some cases even women? And don't try to claim that they're not hate-filled. That's what racism is. It's hate. And just so you know, I'm from the Chicago suburbs, so thank you very much for bashing us in a thread about how much we bash you.

Many religious people misinterpreted the Bible to say Slavery was legal,

What did you expect from an archaic 2000-year old fairy tale built on bigotry and hate?

That is where you're wrong. Those are the fundamentalist Christians, not Christians in general. That is, believe it or not, stereotyping. If that was requisite for Christians, then I would agree.
i should be more specific:

for any persons who believe that the Bible is correct and accurate, a person who fails to embrace Christianity will not enter heaven. according to most translations of the Bible, a person who fails to accept Christianity will unequivocally be sent to hell; there are several translations which give a little fudge room, but the most reasonable interpretations still point to Hell as the destination for non-believers.

now, there are people identifying as "Christian" who pick and choose which parts of the Bible they feel like believing in. i don't consider them Christian, any more than i would consider somebody a scientist if they arbitrarily picked and choose what parts of scientific fact they felt like believing. however, it is not my place to tell people what they may or may not refer to their beliefs as...so i will cede, there are people who identify themselves as "Christian" who don't believe i will go to hell for failing to accept their faith.

It's not sterreotyping. I see it everytime I visit my Grandparent's. If there's one Mexican in their twon, there's 10,000 of them (the Tyson Chicken plant is there).
Are you sure they're Mexican? The correct term to use would be Latino, unless you know they came from Mexico. I would personally find it pretty offensive if I came from El Salvador or the Dominican Republic and you called me a Mexican. How you write tells me that you view "Mexicans" as inherently inferior because they were born in Mexico and not the U.S.

Firm Creationist
I take it that when you did well in science, it wasn't really in biology, was it? I swear, it always freaks me out when I have a creationist science teacher...

Ok, you have the #1 school system. I said top 5% didn't I?
Yes, but what I meant was that I doubted that Alabama was in the top 5%. If you have proof, I'll believe you, but as of now I intuitively doubt that.

I'm sorry that you haven't seen the Finest of the South. Maybe you should come to Huntsville, Alabama. We are literally a town of rocket scientists.
Come to Huntsville, Alabama--where all the cool aerospace engineers are!

Your words contradict each other. First you said all religion is BS (forgive me if I put words in your mouth, this is how it sounded to me), and you hate it all...but then you say you don't hate all religion.
If I recall, Bottle said that of Christianity, not religion in general. And he believes that all Christians are like the Evangelicals who believe that you need faith in Christ to go to heaven. I know for a fact that most Christians are not so fundamentalist as to believe that.

Ok, let me put it in simpler terms. You have a single shot pistol. You don't know if it's loaded and you can't open the breach. Your only way to tell is to shoot is. Would you rather shoot it in the air or point it at your head and fire? Well, if you value your life, you'd shoot it in the air. That is the same way I value my afterlife. I'd rather not take chances on something that could not happen and oesn't do a thing or could happen and damns me for all eternity.
Well, if I believe in the Christian afterlife, then I will be excluded from the afterlife of any other religion (note that Christianity is by far not the dominant world religion) by your logic.

i should be more specific:

for any persons who believe that the Bible is correct and accurate, a person who fails to embrace Christianity will not enter heaven. according to most translations of the Bible, a person who fails to accept Christianity will unequivocally be sent to hell; there are several translations which give a little fudge room, but the most reasonable interpretations still point to Hell as the destination for non-believers.

now, there are people identifying as "Christian" who pick and choose which parts of the Bible they feel like believing in. i don't consider them Christian, any more than i would consider somebody a scientist if they arbitrarily picked and choose what parts of scientific fact they felt like believing. however, it is not my place to tell people what they may or may not refer to their beliefs as...so i will cede, there are people who identify themselves as "Christian" who don't believe i will go to hell for failing to accept their faith.
Again, this is stereotyping. As I said, a majority of Christians do not believe that faith in Christ is necessary to get into heaven. Most people have gotten over the literality of the Bible. That is why most Christians are no longer creationist, because they use the Bible as a moral guidestone and figurative text, though still believe in some of it literally, I think. Even the Vatican has embraced evolution, and you can not believe in evolution if you take the Bible literally.

First off, this is not a general address to ALL liberals on NS. You should have a good idea of who this is targeted at. For those who dont, Im speaking the the disciples of MKULTRA.

Just curious, but has it occured to anybody on the forum here that these temrs can be just as hurtful and offensive as ****** or 'spic?
Im serious. A large amount of the people who most often post rants about how evil Bush is attempting to cause descrimination seem to be convienced that EVERYBODY who is a conservative automaticaly:
a. Supports Bush
b. Is a Jesuit
c. Its from the 'deep south' and is a racist

As a centrist conservative, Baptist, born in Mississippi, how do you think I view these comments and stereotypes?
IM sick and tired of these topics claiming that ALL conservatives and Christains (I say Christians because I have yet to see a topic blaming anything on, for example, Zoroastians) are automaticaly horrible people who hate gays, want slaves, and/or burn witches at the stake.

Aside from some historical innacuracies (No witch burnings in the US), it seems a bit hypocritical to claim that while Michael Moore doesnt represent the Democrats, Limbaugh is clearly the spokesperson of the Republicans.

It's true that most Christians, even many fundamentalists, are nice people. But the publicly loud "fundies" who are hateful end up being the public image of Christianity. The fact that Bush justifies his disgraceful actions using religion does not help that image.

It's unfortunate that Christianity has come to be synonymous with right-wing in America. The likes of Tom DeLay are actively working to continue this trend. Christians should be natural allies of the left. The Bible (new testament) is all about helping the poor, being tolerant and being in favour of peace and such.

Don't worry about it. Just remember: those types who use these terms are the reason we won the last election so overwhelmingly.

The wing of the democrat party that calls any Christian a "fundamentalist" who holds anything less than a wholly relativistic ethical perspective helped us enormously, particularly in motivating religious voters tired of being demonized by radical elements.

I'd gues 3/4 of democrats using the term "neo-con" couldn't give you an accurate contrasting description of traditional and more modern conservatisim to save their lives. The term is normally used as a way of saying "a conservative I particularly hate." As in, "Don Rumsfeld is the worst Neo-Con of them all." Again, the hate helped us in the end.

As long as the other side continues to see religious people as their political enemies, and keeps their understanding of doctrine at such a level, we'll continue to win, no doubt. :)
You're pretty much right there, I just want to add:

1. Don't pretend that there weren't some Republicans who were seething with hatred for those "evil librulz"! It was a very bitter election campaign.

2. If you want people to stop seeing religious people as their political enemies, I suggest that you stop politicising religion.

Yes, but what I meant was that I doubted that Alabama was in the top 5%. If you have proof, I'll believe you, but as of now I intuitively doubt that.


I said my specific school system. No proof, just test scores and what our Sup. said the first day of school.

Your whole rant was what the topic creator was talking about. You are a typical left-wing fanatic. You just bashed conservatism, the South, and Christianity in one stereotypical, ignorant post
Bottle isn't left-wing, she's a Libertarian.

i can still be friends with Christians, even come to respect them, but i will never respect their religious beliefs, and i will always mourn the great person that they will never become while clinging to those beliefs.
What's so bad about Christian beliefs? The Bible contains many good messages such as pacifism, tolerance, and helping the poor.

when conservatives stop using "liberal," "intellectual," and "elite" as smears, then i will start caring if the terms "fundie" or "Bushie" hurt your feelings. as for "neocon," that is not an insulting term; the neoconservative movement is a recognized political faction, referred to by its own members as neoconservative. to simply shorten that to "neocon" is not insulting or offensive, unless you feel that neoconservativism itself is offensive and don't wish it to be applied to you. if your political beliefs fit with the definition of neoconservativism there is no reason why you should feel insulted by "neocon."


I have a suggestion. Do not acknowledge liberal, intellectual, or elite as smear terms. Shame on you! This is the classical mistake of accepting the attackers terms. I personally prefer the term, progressive as this is more accurate. Liberalism is only a small facet of an overall historically progressive march (in western culture), beginning with reforms from a pre-rational-legal feudalism to a post-enlightenment rational bureaucratic form of government.

We must ask ourselves what kind of world we want to live in. Then stick to the values that will produce that kind of world. When discussing issues, we must demand factual evidence, objective data, and rational logic. We must dispute that which relies on base opinion or belief alone. Accountability and objective evidence is necessary for rational affective decision making and more importantly, good policy.

Many religious people misinterpreted the Bible to say Slavery was legal, but they forgot you can't own a slave longer than 7 years in the OLD Testament bible (after that it is set free) if you are following it.

This is absolutely wrong. You had to set a *Hebrew Male* slave free after 7 years (or hold his wife and kids hostage to get him to stay forever). Any female or any non-Hebrew could be bought and sold and were considered lifelong slaves unless you just felt like letting them go.

why is it unfair? if i simply had expressed those feelings about people who hold racist beliefs you wouldn't be telling me it is unfair. if i said that i feel that way about people who believe the world is flat you wouldn't be telling me it is unfair. according to my system of belief, it is impossible to be a complete person if one believes in the tennets of the Christian faith; according to their beliefs, i will burn in Hell for all eternity because i do not accept Christ. i'd say that makes us even, and i don't see how my feelings can be considered unfair.

Anyone who says "I find all people who disagree with my particular viewpoint to be untrustworthy and they are not whole people" is demonstrating very bigotted views.

What's so bad about Christian beliefs? The Bible contains many good messages such as pacifism, tolerance, and helping the poor.

Bottle, like many militant atheists, apparently believes that any intelligent person cannot possibly come to a different conclusion than hers. This, in and of itself, is an irrational position, but one which she is certainly entitled to.

I consider support and admiration of george bush to be a litmus test for character and you fail.

Thats why *I* dont think you're a very good person.

I consider support and admiration of george bush to be a litmus test for character and you fail.

Thats why *I* dont think you're a very good person.

^^ Again, comes very close to the definition of bigotry.

Let's see a Scotch/Irish White Southern Baptist from Mississippi,

Ah,....I don't get it, your opposed to people labeling conservatives, "You"? I can see that in a New York City Conservative, they can be pretty snooty with their BMWs and their Episcopalian faith. Not to say that you don't drive a BMW or are not just as snooty, you could drive a Volvo for all I know.

Now it is true that Mississippi is just one generation from murdering Black children because they drank out of the "White" water fountain, and you no longer lych Black men for not tipping their hats to white women, and you no longer burn crosses in the yards of Jews and Itallian Catholics, but you have come a long way in that time. You should be proud, it's just that it can take a while to live that sort of thing down.

I grew up in Florida and we look up to look down on Mississippi. You guys are like in the five worst States in the Union for education.

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

http://www.nea.org/edstats/images/04rankings-update.pdf

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/package.jsp?name=fte/smartstates/smartstates




The 2nd highest Infant Mortality rate:

http://www.aecf.org/cgi-bin/kc.cgi?action=ranking&variable=imr&year=2001


I understand your unemploment rate is higher and your wages lower that the national average.

Just curious, but has it occured to anybody on the forum here that these temrs can be just as hurtful and offensive as ****** or 'spic?

WHAT?!?!

I'm sorry, but go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

Has anyone ever been denied a job because they're a "fundie"? Has anyone ever been sent to a separate bathroom because they're a "Bushy"? Has anyone ever been told that medical science has proven them inferior because they're a "neocon" and, thus, cannot hold the same social status?

Has any Christian Fundamentalist ever been a victim of the philosophy of eugenics?

Has any Bush supporter - other than on internet forums - been told they are subhuman and only good for manual labor?

Has any neocon been told they have to give up their home because "divine providence" has decreed someone else live there?

You know what ... I'm not sorry ... and if it incurs the wrath of the mods, so be it ... but this Native American Cajun Muslim says, "Go fuck yourself."

^^ Again, comes very close to the definition of bigotry.
I say that hits the definition square-on, personally. Judging one's character purely on whether one likes another person? If it doesn't fit, it's damn close.

Now living in a suburb of Chicago, the people here are just like people where I lived in South Carolina, Louisiana, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, and New Jersey. Good people are good people and bad people are bad people regardless of where they live. The suburbs of Chicago are 15% Latino, 8% Asian, 3% Eastern European, 1% African-American, and the rest Caucasian. Northern Cook County votes Republican, not like downtown Chicago which is a Democrat stronghold. Catholics are predominant followed by Lutheran and Mormons. There is a growing Muslim and Jewish population in the suburbs as well. Suburban Chicagoans just have a different accent --- kind of nice Midwesterners for the most part --- just a little attitude the closer you get to the Second City.
Best regards,
Lekau

Fundie, Bushy and Neocon? Well I think there's a few people I'd call 'fundie,' (Like Osama) but none of them are on this forum, as for 'bushy,' the only person I'd think of calling that is the woman downstairs who never shaves (she looks like she has Don King in a headlock). Who would have thought that Neo-conservative was offencive? Not that I've ever called anyone that either. :cool:

when conservatives stop using "liberal," "intellectual," and "elite" as smears, then i will start caring if the terms "fundie" or "Bushie" hurt your feelings. as for "neocon," that is not an insulting term; the neoconservative movement is a recognized political faction, referred to by its own members as neoconservative. to simply shorten that to "neocon" is not insulting or offensive, unless you feel that neoconservativism itself is offensive and don't wish it to be applied to you. if your political beliefs fit with the definition of neoconservativism there is no reason why you should feel insulted by "neocon."

as for negative views about the South, i am guilty as charged. the stats speak for themselves, and i generally have a low opinion of anybody reared and educated in the South because their educational and cultural fascilities are notoriously poor. now, that said, i attend school with a group of people who are mostly Southern, and they are all extremely intelligent and capable; i don't cling to any negative view of Southerners in particular, i simply don't give them quite as much credit right off the bat. that's prejudiced of me, and i am fully aware that it is unfair and wrong, but it's my feelings...i can do my best to counter them with logic, and i try to do so, but the feelings will still be my knee-jerk reaction.

finally, in terms of contempt for Christians being unfair, i believe that any person who believes in the Christian faith is inherently less trustworthy and less interesting then they would be otherwise. it's like how i view racists; you can be a very smart, fun, friendly person, but if you hold racist beliefs i am never going to like you as much as i would if you didn't hold those beliefs. i can still be friends with Christians, even come to respect them, but i will never respect their religious beliefs, and i will always mourn the great person that they will never become while clinging to those beliefs.
Who ever said that a liberal was an 'intellectual?' Those terms are mutually exclusive.
Nice job. You hate Southerners and Christianity. Try spreading a little more of that liberal acceptance around.

Just to refine the definitions that most people use, despite what they say

Fundie = anyone who believes in god (or may not support gay marriage)
Bushy = anyone who supports Bush
Neocon = anyone who isn't a Democrat or an anti-Bush Republican... or anyone who doesn't criticize Republicans and Bush 24/7

Of course, these definitions are terribly off-target and Im not saying that all people who make vicious attacks against anyone who's conservative are like this, but Im just saying that generally, on these forums, this seems to be a typical attitude.

Southerners make awesome fried chicken!

BTW if you're happy to support war then you should have thick enough skin to endure being called 'bushie'!

Anyway, I hear the brazillian is on the way out, being a 'bushie' might be the next big thing :)

I say that hits the definition square-on, personally. Judging one's character purely on whether one likes another person? If it doesn't fit, it's damn close.


When the individual is more than an individual but the engine of certain policies which affect the lives of a great number of people, the situation is different.

Admiring and supporting george bush is admiring and supporting what george bush represents.

Which said I would gladly take up the criticism of bigotry if my bigotry is acknowledged to be against the wicked and the wrong.

Which said I would gladly take up the criticism of bigotry if my bigotry is acknowledged to be against the wicked and the wrong.
Which is such a subjective concept, and does not stand with me. Bigotry, prejudice, and stereoptyping are never admirable qualities. Sure, prejudice has it's definite advantages. There's a reason humans are so prone to it--because it certainly aids in survival. If one snake bites you, no matter how many snakes don't, it's a better idea just to steer away from snakes in general. But I think that we can try to push back some of those more primal instincts and put that behind us. Human society is no longer in the forest surrounded by myriad dangerous organisms, our greatest enemy now is ourselves. Back from that digression, I never consider bigotry to be acceptable. Sure, I am bigoted myself in certain ways, which I make my best attempts to eradicate whenever I discover a new one. Who are you to say what is wicked or is wrong? You can say what you personally feel to be wicked or wrong, but to say that there is a fundamental moral or ethical quality to any action or entity is ridiculous. You should always be open to acknowledge that what you consider to be wicked or wrong might not be quite so bad, and that people who hold certain beliefs do not necessarily believe what you stereoptype onto them or do what you assume.

WHAT?!?!

I'm sorry, but go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

Has anyone ever been denied a job because they're a "fundie"? Has anyone ever been sent to a separate bathroom because they're a "Bushy"? Has anyone ever been told that medical science has proven them inferior because they're a "neocon" and, thus, cannot hold the same social status?

Has any Christian Fundamentalist ever been a victim of the philosophy of eugenics?

Has any Bush supporter - other than on internet forums - been told they are subhuman and only good for manual labor?

Has any neocon been told they have to give up their home because "divine providence" has decreed someone else live there?

You know what ... I'm not sorry ... and if it incurs the wrath of the mods, so be it ... but this Native American Cajun Muslim says, "Go fuck yourself."



Come on you know white guys from Mississippi are just busting a gut to find a PC avenue to say the "N" word. They get a dirty thrill from it like taking their Klan robes out from the back of the closet and doing twirl in front of the mirror and singing:

(sung to the tune of "I fell pretty" from Westside Story)


Mississippi Klansman: "I feel Bushie. I fell Bushie. I fell Fundie, and neocon not gay, and I pity anyone who is liberal today!"

Chorus of forum Neocons: "La la la la la la la"

Mississippi Klansman: [I]"I fell alarming. It's so charming. It's so charming how alarming I feel. I call liberals racist because I have no contact with what is real."


Chorus of forum Neocons: "La la la la la la la"[/I

Mississippi Klansman: [I]"Who's that Klansman in the mirror there? Who can that Republican be? Such a Bushie me. Such a Fundie me. Such a Bushie me!"

Mississippi Klansman: "I feel Bushie. I fell Bushie. I fell Fundie, and neocon not gay, and I pity anyone who is liberal today!"


And the orchestra swells.

Who ever said that a liberal was an 'intellectual?' Those terms are mutually exclusive.
Nice job. You hate Southerners and Christianity. Try spreading a little more of that liberal acceptance around.He never said all liberals were intellectuals. He said that the terms "intellectual" and "liberal" are used as insults, which is true.

That being said, I'm done defending him. He's giving all liberals a bad name. Much in the same way that a few radicals give all conservatives bad names.

Ok, let me put it in simpler terms. You have a single shot pistol. You don't know if it's loaded and you can't open the breach. Your only way to tell is to shoot is. Would you rather shoot it in the air or point it at your head and fire? Well, if you value your life, you'd shoot it in the air. That is the same way I value my afterlife. I'd rather not take chances on something that could not happen and oesn't do a thing or could happen and damns me for all eternity.
The thing with Pascal's Wager, though, is that it reduces a non-binary set of possibilities, i.e. reality, into a binary set of possibilities, i.e. believe in God and be saved or don't. There are many other possibilities than the two listed. There is the possibility that there is a God, but not the Christian one, there is the possibility that God likes to damn people at random, there is the possibility that there are many warring Gods and you won't be noticed. So the Wager can't possibly compare to real life.

That being said, I'm done defending him. He's giving all liberals a bad name. Much in the same way that a few radicals give all conservatives bad names.
Bottle is not a liberal, if I recall correctly, and shouldn't give anything a bad name. This is the first time I've ever actually seen her say anything like this, and I hold great respect for her.

Bottle is not a liberal, if I recall correctly, and shouldn't give anything a bad name. This is the first time I've ever actually seen her say anything like this, and I hold great respect for her.My bad. That's what I get for making assumptions. I'm an ass, and the ump has shunned me. That last little bit about Christians not being able to become "great people" still kinda irks me though.

Who ever said that a liberal was an 'intellectual?' Those terms are mutually exclusive.
Excuse me, but I believe that counts as a flame.
Please refrain from doing this in the future, as it is against forum rules.
Thank you.

The thing with Pascal's Wager, though, is that it reduces a non-binary set of possibilities, i.e. reality, into a binary set of possibilities, i.e. believe in God and be saved or don't. There are many other possibilities than the two listed. There is the possibility that there is a God, but not the Christian one, there is the possibility that God likes to damn people at random, there is the possibility that there are many warring Gods and you won't be noticed. So the Wager can't possibly compare to real life.

Well there is a third possiblity that relates directly to his religion. According to the Old tretament there are complex laws governing devine forgiveness. According to those laws you have to try and make restitution for your sins, like if you cheat or steal from someone your suppose to pay them back and ask for forgiveness from the wronged person before God can forgive you. If not you're damned.

Jesus doesn't actualy say anywhere that these old laws no longer apply. There are some moral issues where he said "sin no more", but did he ever get into property crime?

Oh, I would also like to add that a stereoptype of my own was broken recently. Yes, it is surprising what despicable traits you can find in yourself that you weren't aware of. For me, it was Evangelicals. I saw the Evangelical on "The Daily Show", and realised that they weren't all rabid Bible thumpers. Foam and all. Granted, I believe he is in the minority, but I agreed with him on so much, and it was incredibly disconcerting. I no longer am prejudiced against Evangelicals, and I am happy about that. Once again it has just shown me that I'm not anti-religionism, just anti-religionist.amen. Stewart rocks.

and I didn't have the patience to read all three pages to see if this has already been said, but the only reason there is never was any witch-burning in the US is because there never were any witches. otherwise, I'm sure Salem alone would have got a few. and that's not the only witch-hunt, just the most famous.

and as a general note, my brother would be offended by ninjadom revival's claim to ninjadom (in his name). but don't worry. if he comes after you, you won't feel a thing.

Come on you know white guys from Mississippi are just busting a gut to find a PC avenue to say the "N" word. They get a dirty thrill from it like taking their Klan robes out from the back of the closet and doing twirl in front of the mirror and singing:

(sung to the tune of "I feel pretty" from Westside Story)


Now that was funny. Damn funny. :D

Now that was funny. Damn funny. :D


Why thanks, and for those of you who missed the first airing of this post a special repeat!




Come on you know white guys from Mississippi are just busting a gut to find a PC avenue to say the "N" word. They get a dirty thrill from it like taking their Klan robes out from the back of the closet and doing twirl in front of the mirror and singing:

(sung to the tune of "I fell pretty" from Westside Story)


Mississippi Klansman: "I feel Bushie. I fell Bushie. I fell Fundie, and neocon not gay, and I pity anyone who is liberal today!"

Chorus of forum Neocons: "La la la la la la la"

Mississippi Klansman: "I fell alarming. It's so charming. It's so charming how alarming I feel. I call liberals racist because I have no contact with what is real."


Chorus of forum Neocons: "La la la la la la la"

Mississippi Klansman: "Who's that Klansman in the mirror there? Who can that Republican be? Such a Bushie me. Such a Fundie me. Such a Bushie me!"


Mississippi Klansman: "I feel Bushie. I fell Bushie. I fell Fundie, and neocon not gay, and I pity anyone who is liberal todaaay!"


And the orchestra swells.

Southerners make awesome fried chicken!

BTW if you're happy to support war then you should have thick enough skin to endure being called 'bushie'!

Anyway, I hear the brazillian is on the way out, being a 'bushie' might be the next big thing :)

1) Ya ain't just whistlin' Dixie!

2) War is good *eyes glaze over*. And I don't mind being called a "Bushy" or "cowboy". Is that really supposed to offend me? A cowboy didn't take no for an answer, always put the bad guy in jail or 6 feet under, he got the girl, never got killed (except in Shane)

3) Don't you know, Bush is the next big thing. I just wish I could have the courage to do some of the things he did (I.E. Lead our men and women 9/11/01)

WHAT?!?!

I'm sorry, but go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

Has anyone ever been denied a job because they're a "fundie"? Has anyone ever been sent to a separate bathroom because they're a "Bushy"? Has anyone ever been told that medical science has proven them inferior because they're a "neocon" and, thus, cannot hold the same social status?

Has any Christian Fundamentalist ever been a victim of the philosophy of eugenics?

Has any Bush supporter - other than on internet forums - been told they are subhuman and only good for manual labor?

Has any neocon been told they have to give up their home because "divine providence" has decreed someone else live there?

You know what ... I'm not sorry ... and if it incurs the wrath of the mods, so be it ... but this Native American Cajun Muslim says, "Go fuck yourself."

Bad muslim make baby muhammed cry! :(


BTW-You sound like a winner, with your heritage, I'm supprised you can even own a computer. Hey at least you didn't fall prey to firewater!

Why thanks, and for those of you who missed the first airing of this post a special repeat!




Come on you know white guys from Mississippi are just busting a gut to find a PC avenue to say the "N" word. They get a dirty thrill from it like taking their Klan robes out from the back of the closet and doing twirl in front of the mirror and singing:

(sung to the tune of "I fell pretty" from Westside Story)


Mississippi Klansman: "I feel Bushie. I fell Bushie. I fell Fundie, and neocon not gay, and I pity anyone who is liberal today!"

Chorus of forum Neocons: "La la la la la la la"

Mississippi Klansman: "I fell alarming. It's so charming. It's so charming how alarming I feel. I call liberals racist because I have no contact with what is real."


Chorus of forum Neocons: "La la la la la la la"

Mississippi Klansman: "Who's that Klansman in the mirror there? Who can that Republican be? Such a Bushie me. Such a Fundie me. Such a Bushie me!"


Mississippi Klansman: "I feel Bushie. I fell Bushie. I fell Fundie, and neocon not gay, and I pity anyone who is liberal todaaay!"


And the orchestra swells.

Screw you. My father was from Mississippi and marched for their fucking civil rights. You want to call neocons KKK members? Go ahead. Just remember Hyde is a fucking klansmen and most of the southern democrats were too. Democrats do not want minorities to get out of poverty. Why should they want them to suceede? They are a source for a huge amount of votes. They would rather have them as slaves to their party then actually suceede in life.
The same people who say neo-cons are racist and evil, wouldn't let a homeless black family into their home for the night. Classic limo liberals!

Democrat leader- Senator Byrd- KKK Kleagle- Racist? YES!- Does he show that in politics? Hell yes!- Why have a racist leader if you're against racism? Dunno, maybe stupidity runs rampant in the Party....

Keruvalia- Which type of Native American are you? I'm part Cherokee.

Democrat leader- Senator Byrd- KKK Kleagle- Racist? YES!- Does he show that in politics? Hell yes!- Why have a racist leader if you're against racism? Dunno, maybe stupidity runs rampant in the Party....

Keruvalia- Which type of Native American are you? I'm part Cherokee.

He's a bs Indian!

Screw you. My father was from Mississippi and marched for their fucking civil rights. You want to call neocons KKK members? Go ahead. Just remember Hyde is a fucking klansmen and most of the southern democrats were too. Democrats do not want minorities to get out of poverty. Why should they want them to suceede? They are a source for a huge amount of votes. They would rather have them as slaves to their party then actually suceede in life.
The same people who say neo-cons are racist and evil, wouldn't let a homeless black family into their home for the night. Classic limo liberals!


To translate Johnny Wadd's ramblings into the musical score:

Johnny Wadd: "La la la la la la"

To translate Johnny Wadd's ramblings into the musical score:

Johnny Wadd: "La la la la la la"
ooh ooh lets do it in opera

I am better than YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

ooh ooh lets do it in opera

I am better than YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!


Here's another song for you guys. :D

http://www.depresident.com/george-bush-mighty-mouse-video.asp

First off, this is not a general address to ALL liberals on NS. You should have a good idea of who this is targeted at. For those who dont, Im speaking the the disciples of MKULTRA.

Just curious, but has it occured to anybody on the forum here that these temrs can be just as hurtful and offensive as ****** or 'spic?
Im serious. A large amount of the people who most often post rants about how evil Bush is attempting to cause descrimination seem to be convienced that EVERYBODY who is a conservative automaticaly:
a. Supports Bush
b. Is a Jesuit
c. Its from the 'deep south' and is a racist

As a centrist conservative, Baptist, born in Mississippi, how do you think I view these comments and stereotypes?
IM sick and tired of these topics claiming that ALL conservatives and Christains (I say Christians because I have yet to see a topic blaming anything on, for example, Zoroastians) are automaticaly horrible people who hate gays, want slaves, and/or burn witches at the stake.
Aside from some historical innacuracies (No witch burnings in the US), it seems a bit hypocritical to claim that while Michael Moore doesnt represent the Democrats, Limbaugh is clearly the spokesperson of the Republicans.

So,
First off, I DO support Bush. Im not going to go into reasons for this because I dont want a thread about how much Bush sucks.

Second off, as I said, Im a Baptist. As far as I know, most of my ancestors lived in a small village in Ireland and grew potatoes, until they left for America, apparently they wanted to avoid the whole Catholic/Protestant thing, and there was a bit with the potatoes.

Third, I was born in Mississippi, as I said again, anybody want to hold it against me?
This is apparently another case where its acceptable to descriminate against people. As we all know, if your from a southern state, your a hic who most likely your mothers brother or something. Could it just be possible that, while a good deal of the south is racist, but alot of them are also kind people, and generaly alot nicer than, random example, somebody who lives in a Chicago suburb?

And of course, I realize that much of my 'audience' is even more set in their views than I am. Fine. Whatever, Im tired and grouchy right now, so if you want to flame the middle-aged white Christian souther-born Arizonian, go for it.
You have to understand, Liberals make racist, nasty comments about people, then when they respond, clal them racists and hateful. This is their favorite tactic, outside of just lying about a person.

Keruvalia- Which type of Native American are you? I'm part Cherokee.

I'm Caddo. :)

Bad muslim make baby muhammed cry! :(


BTW-You sound like a winner, with your heritage, I'm supprised you can even own a computer. Hey at least you didn't fall prey to firewater!


You are exactly why Christians and conservatives get a bad name.

There are Christians that I like. I still think it's superstition, but just because I think one of a persons ideas don't meet my own idea of what's rational doesn't mean I think they're bad people. I find the Christians on http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/index.htm quite easy to get along with. They know I'm agnostic and don't have a problem with it.

I know conservatives that are nice people. I may consider them seriously misguided, but they mostly are nice people.

I have lived in the south most of my life. There are plenty of nuts. I consider Austin my hometown, and it's fairly liberal. I live in Oklahoma now, and right wing nuts are everywhere. I don't think all conservatives are nuts, but there are some pretty scary ones here. I don't know of any liberals who advocate taking civil rights away from a whole group. Right wing nuts do. And they insult people based on their race.

You are exactly why Christians and conservatives get a bad name.



Who said I was Christian? I just like to bash muslims cause if they believe in that crap they probably believe in the Easter Bunny too!

I'm Caddo. :)
Forgive me, for I am skeptical. Personally, I've never heard of your tribe, as it's not as big as the Cherokee Nation, nor is it close to my homeland like the Chocktaw or Chickisaw. Please tell me a little of your tribe.

Forgive me, for I am skeptical. Personally, I've never heard of your tribe, as it's not as big as the Cherokee Nation, nor is it close to my homeland like the Chocktaw or Chickisaw. Please tell me a little of your tribe.

We're a native Texan tribe (Texas is, in fact, a Caddo word). Specifically, I am Nakohodotsi, but it's easier to just say "Caddo".

http://www.texasindians.com/caddo.htm

A good site with some of our history: http://ops.tamu.edu/x075bb/caddo/Indians.html

Here's another song for you guys. :D

http://www.depresident.com/george-bush-mighty-mouse-video.asp
Thank you. Thank you so, so much. That made my day 3.5 times over.

(Texas is, in fact, a Caddo word)
Almost. Texas was ultimately derived from the Caddo taysha, meaning "friends, allies". It then became Texas after going through Spanish.

Ker. Good going, just one question. WTF!?!? You're from Texas, with Native American blood, but you're Muslim? How does that work?

Ker. Good going, just one question. WTF!?!? You're from Texas, with Native American blood, but you're Muslim? How does that work?
I believe we could call this stereotyping, no?

Does anyone else feel like this is the fox complaining because the chickens peck?

Ker. Good going, just one question. WTF!?!? You're from Texas, with Native American blood, but you're Muslim? How does that work?

Not sure what blood and religion have to do with each other, since people choose their religion and all, but I chose Islam.

Ker. Good going, just one question. WTF!?!? You're from Texas, with Native American blood, but you're Muslim? How does that work?

I believe he recently converted, but I don't know anymore bout that.

Who said I was Christian? I just like to bash muslims cause if they believe in that crap they probably believe in the Easter Bunny too!

The rest still applies. And there are lots of Christians in this area that think like you, and they give Christians a bad name.

Not sure what blood and religion have to do with each other, since people choose their religion and all, but I chose Islam.
Just, I've never known a Native American Muslim or a Southern born and bred Muslim...a little shocking for me to see all that in one person at one time.

Just, I've never known a Native American Muslim or a Southern born and bred Muslim...a little shocking for me to see all that in one person at one time.

I only know one other NA Muslim, personally, though I've heard there are quite a few of us. There are millions of southern born US Muslims. :) Houston and Austin both have very large Islamic populations.

Muslims come in all nationalities and cultures.

Muslims come in all nationalities and cultures.
And comprise 22% of all humans.

Well, I live in Alabama, so the only Muslims I know are in their own little part of town and they usually keep to theirselves...and the only ones I know are from the Yankees.

Ok, a little Southern joke:
What's the difference between a Yankee and a damned Yankee?
Damned Yankee stayed.

Ok, a little Southern joke:
What's the difference between a Yankee and a damned Yankee?
Damned Yankee stayed.

rofl

However, to be fair, Texans don't consider themselves "southern" ... we're Texan. There's a difference. ;)

Bottle, like many militant atheists, apparently believes that any intelligent person cannot possibly come to a different conclusion than hers. This, in and of itself, is an irrational position, but one which she is certainly entitled to.
Sure is irrational. I'm 18 years old and atheist but not militant. I think that militant atheism is something that belongs in the early teenage years!

Liking Christian principles is not the same as liking the Christian Right. Largely because the latter betrays the former every day.

I understand your unemploment rate is higher and your wages lower that the national average.
I suppose it's what they get for voting Republican.

Which said I would gladly take up the criticism of bigotry if my bigotry is acknowledged to be against the wicked and the wrong.
This is one of the most stupid things I have ever read on this forum... and that's really saying something.

All bigots think that the people they hate are "the wicked and the wrong". It's practically one of the definitions of being a bigot.

2) War is good *eyes glaze over*.
OK, you're officially batshit insane. If this is what you think you've obviously never been in war. Neither have I, but this is what I hear from all veterans.

I suppose you think Hitler was right to go to war against Poland and everyone else around him back in '39?

Keruvalia, My Uncle Dallas (who lives in Dallas and roots for the Cowboys) is Texan and he considers himself "Southern", as does my friend from San Antonio.

Also, for the record, the world has only about 1.5 billion Muslims, 2.2 billion Christians, 1 billion atheists (mainly from China and Russia), and about 1.5 billion Hindus/ Buddhists (Pakistan/India). I don't think that Islam's gonna take over anytime soon (unless The Ressurection of Christ comes soon)

Siljhouettes, of course I'm batshit insane. Didn't the name tip you off? Radical Islam and 9/11 did this to me...well that and my wanting to go to war since I was 3 (that's what you get when you engulf yourself in Army Men and live right next to an Army base for most of your life) I was pretty much raised around the military due to my Step-dad being a Former Marine and seeing all the new Helicopters and tanks the Military gets fly over your house almost everyday. It's like looking inside a glass house, but never getting to step inside. You want to so much, and when someone wants to throw a rock at that house you want to kill them an then step inside the house. By fighting, I can claim my place among my family as a veteran (trust me, there must be 20+ living vets in my family) and truly earn my name.

*pokes CM to see what happens*

Im...sort of glad to see that this topic has gotten on without me, and managed to stay somewhat on topic, despite an effort by a few.
Those who made certain comments against Mississippi...I feel I should tell you, I was BORN in a Mississippi hospital. I was in the state for a few days after that, then went back to Alabama :P
BTW, interesting trivia, I was born in the same town as Elvis ^_^

I didn't know you lived in Alabama DGNT! Wow, small world...

*pokes Mr. 47 back, this time with a stick*

Only for two years, then we moved to Pennsylvania...then Ohio...then Oregon, then Arizona.
And my parents lived in Alaska before they moved to Alabama O_O
*pokes CM with a sharp rock*

Oh, I see...
*pokes DGNT with a hot, iron rod*

Keruvalia, My Uncle Dallas (who lives in Dallas and roots for the Cowboys) is Texan and he considers himself "Southern", as does my friend from San Antonio.

Most Texans consider themselves "Texan". Some do not. Meh.

Also, for the record, the world has only about 1.5 billion Muslims, 2.2 billion Christians, 1 billion atheists (mainly from China and Russia), and about 1.5 billion Hindus/ Buddhists (Pakistan/India). I don't think that Islam's gonna take over anytime soon (unless The Ressurection of Christ comes soon)

With all the infighting in Christianity, it's hard to say for sure. Just go to any Baptist or Evangelist website and say you're Catholic. So, you can split those two.

Then again, I never said Islam would be taking over any time soon. I doubt it will. Would be nice to see, but I won't hold my breath.

What I do find really strange is that everyone knows a Methodist. I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't in some way know a Methodist. Very few people can claim to know a Muslim. Yet, there are more Muslims in the US than there are Methodists. Crazy.

What I do find really strange is that everyone knows a Methodist. I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't in some way know a Methodist. Very few people can claim to know a Muslim. Yet, there are more Muslims in the US than there are Methodists. Crazy.
Which is why we don't use anecdotal evidence for scientific research.

Which is why we don't use anecdotal evidence for scientific research.

Well, yeah ... nod. What's really strange is that the Southern Baptist Convention has 16 million members but has 42 million churches and 82 million preachers! (source: ARIS)

Granted, I know that some folks attend church, but aren't necessarily members of that church ... but there is something seriously wrong with those numbers.

rofl

However, to be fair, Texans don't consider themselves "southern" ... we're Texan. There's a difference. ;)

Damn right.

Bottle is not a liberal, if I recall correctly, and shouldn't give anything a bad name. This is the first time I've ever actually seen her say anything like this, and I hold great respect for her.

I certainly used to. Lately, her views have been just as fundamentalist and bigotted as any I have ever seen and I found myself losing quite a bit of respect for her.

Well, yeah ... nod. What's really strange is that the Southern Baptist Convention has 16 million members but has 42 million churches and 82 million preachers! (source: ARIS)

Granted, I know that some folks attend church, but aren't necessarily members of that church ... but there is something seriously wrong with those numbers.
or people like me attend four churches, one at home, and three near familie mmbers like parents or grandparents. I'm only a member of one, but I attend 4.

Just, I've never known a Native American Muslim or a Southern born and bred Muslim...a little shocking for me to see all that in one person at one time.
I am surprised to learn that there are native Americans who are militant Republicans like you. I assumed that the natives fell into line with the other minorities in the USA and voted for Democrats.

Well, yeah ... nod. What's really strange is that the Southern Baptist Convention has 16 million members but has 42 million churches and 82 million preachers! (source: ARIS)

Granted, I know that some folks attend church, but aren't necessarily members of that church ... but there is something seriously wrong with those numbers.
42 million churches in America? You sure that's not 42,000?

42 million churches in America? You sure that's not 42,000?

That's just the Southern Baptists. There is a Christian church for every man, woman, and child in the United States. Starbucks is jealous.

Check for yourself on Table 81 here: http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/03statab/pop.pdf

That's just the Southern Baptists. There is a Christian church for every man, woman, and child in the United States. Starbucks is jealous.

Check for yourself on Table 81 here: http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/03statab/pop.pdf

The multiplier only applies to membership data, according to the document.

As such, there are 42,334 Southern Baptist churches, made up of ~16,053,000 people.

Of course, if the Southern Baptist Convention keeps kicking people out, that'll go down a bit. =)

A congregation does not necessarily mean a church. It also applies to prayer groups.


And an FYI, most Native Americans (well, the Cherokee I know at least) who aren't blinded by internal politics are very nationalistic because they love this land, no matter who claims it.

A congregation does not necessarily mean a church. It also applies to prayer groups.

It meant churches in the sense in which I was using it, but it has now been fixed.

I certainly used to. Lately, her views have been just as fundamentalist and bigotted as any I have ever seen and I found myself losing quite a bit of respect for her.
I know, it's so odd...

The multiplier only applies to membership data, according to the document.

As such, there are 42,334 Southern Baptist churches, made up of ~16,053,000 people.

Of course, if the Southern Baptist Convention keeps kicking people out, that'll go down a bit. =)

Oooooh! *bonk* ... okie ... that makes sense, then. I must've read that wrong. :D

And an FYI, most Native Americans (well, the Cherokee I know at least) who aren't blinded by internal politics are very nationalistic because they love this land, no matter who claims it.

Nationalism has nothing to do with loving the land. I don't know any Native Americans - though I don't know any Cherokee that I'm aware of - who are flag wavers or saber rattlers and the Caddo Confederacy has stated that under no uncertain terms will its children be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

My order of loyalty:
1] Allah/Islam
2] My wife/children
3] My Tribe
4] Texas
5] The United States

For me, it goes:
1) Duty to God
2) Duty to Country and State
3) Duty to Family/Friends
4) Duty to Others (countrymen or allies)
5) Duty to Self
6) Some poor SOB in a 3rd world country that I care naught about