NationStates Jolt Archive

I hate alcohol. Immensly. It has caused numerous deaths of thousands of innocents on the road. Innocent families on their way home from work or shopping or whatever get hit by some sub-human drunkard returning from a bar and die or get seriously injured. And then these damn murderers get a few days in rehabilitation. Forget that. If I had my way we'd lock them up in prison for about 50 years. Alas, it unfortunatly won't happen. However, there are some things that may hopefully happen. Some politician might realize that bars are a menace and ban them. To get to a bar, you usually need to drive. At a bar you drink. And then on the way home you drive. After drinking. So essentially you are driving home intoxicated and you are a menace. Bars cause deaths. Nowhere in the constitution or common sense do they have a justification. Ban them. Also bars and alcohol lead to forms of immorality but I won't get into that now.

Make no mistake, I'm a Catholic and at each Mass I drink the blood of Christ in the form of wine. But thats the only alcohol I drink. And it is one sip a week. I think religous groups should be allowed their rituals because they are for a different purpose than drinking for the sake of drinking. But for the rest of alcohol, I say get rid of it. Its deadly crap. Do to it what we justifiably did to weed and crack. Thoughts on this?

Yup, because prohibition worked out great last time around didn't it?

Alcohol itself is not evil, so there is no reason to ban it. In fact, alcohol in moderation is very healthy.

Also, going to a bar does not in any way imply that you have to drive drunk. You can have one drink, sit around for several hours talking to friends afterwards, and then go home. You can have a designated driver. You can call a cab. When my boyfriend and I go out, the options are the following:
(a) Neither of us drinks
(b) One of us drinks, the other drives
(c) Both of us drink and we get a cab
(d) Both of us drink and we spend the night wherever we are (if we are at a friend's house for a party or something)

There are plenty of ways to enjoy alcohol responsibly.

On drunk drivers - they should be locked up, behind bars. They should be charged with murder if someone dies.

But for the rest of alcohol, I say get rid of it. Its deadly crap. Do to it what we justifiably did to weed and crack. Thoughts on this?
great idea what could possibly go wrong? (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html)

You can't ban alcohol. Idiocy kills more people each year than things related to alcohol. That is the real problem. Ban idiocy I say.

I don't hate alchohol. I hate stupid people that drink it responsibly.

And then these damn murderers get a few days in rehabilitation.


I don't know what the law is where you come from, but in Britain drunk drivers tend to get a few years in prison if they kill people. A lenient sentence, but more than "a few days in rehabilitation", nonetheless.

You must get invited to mad parties dude!

I hate drunk drivers, and agressive drunks.

But not alcohol. I fact my religion practically celebrates it, saying it is the "Blood Of Christ" [nudge nudge, wink wink]

*snip*

We should hang out you sound like barrels of fun.

You touch my ale, you'll get more then a few cross words from me.

There are strict laws about drunk driving, a cousin's step dad went to jail for involuntary man-slaughter. I believe the concept of stricter drunken driving laws, I know here they just brought the legal limit to like .08 now. Also, if you do get caught driving drunk you lose your license for a period of time, plus rehab and the cost of rehab, then there is the upped insurance if/when you get your license back, plus the jail time, and thats just for driving drunk. When you get in an accident its worse, and if there is a death involved it gets much much worse. Vehicular homicide and involuntary manslaghter are just too of the things they can be charged with.

As well as restitution and the like.

Don't ban the drink because of the few, if thats the case, ban the cars too, if it weren't for them, they wouldn't be driving. Its not the drink that makes you drive drunk, its the moron drinking it.

A ban on idiocy?

*watches General Forum's post count slow to a crawl*

Prohibition was a failure only because enforcement was not abundant enough. If they could make it work, I'm all for a dry nation.

I'm sure you wouldn't mind a ban on guns, knives, smoking, and Christianity which all have their roots in many deaths, would you?

In some ways alcohol is like religion - it can be used responsilbly, or can be used by total idiots with disatrous results.

Prohibition was a failure only because enforcement was not abundant enough. If they could make it work, I'm all for a dry nation.

So you'd favor a fascist, dry state? [to enforce it, of course]

A ban on idiocy?

*watches General Forum's post count slow to a crawl*

See. Everyone benefits.

Yes, It Could Cause Deaths Ban It!!!

i hate alcoholics, unintelligent jackasses they are fucking up their lives and everyone elses around them

and you (Comando2), i hate you, yeah

Yes, It Could Cause Deaths Ban It!!!

Simple solution: ban death. You get the death penalty if you break the law and die.

Alcohol is fine, it's the idiots that get drunk and drive that are the problem. They should face the same charge when they kill someone as if they had done it with a gun I say.

Alcohol is fine, it's the idiots that get drunk and drive that are the problem. They should face the same charge when they kill someone as if they had done it with a gun I say.
If they kill someone with a gun whilst drunk should they be punished more severely though?

there are still dry counties in America, though most people just drive the extra miles and buy it in bulk and bring it back.

If they ban it, then people will still brew it, rather simple to do, I can get the stuff for under $200 and have it set up in a basement that no one would ever find.

like I said before though, don't touch my ale.

I hate drunk driving.
I hate people driving under the influence of any stimulant or depressant.

However, I believe that alcohol in moderation is nothing terrible. Did not Jesus change the water to wine at the wedding? If he had no problem with it, why should any follower of Christ?

isnt this like blaming the gun for the crime??? should we put the gun on trial?? i know that you have never mentioned this but i don't care

If they kill someone with a gun whilst drunk should they be punished more severely though?

Lol, nah. Just the same punishment for shooting while sober, shooting while drunk or running someone down/causing an accident while drunk driving would suit me. Over here (Australia) people who commit vehicular manslaughter under the influence often get off pretty easy and it shits me. When they turn that key they know what they're doing is dangerous. Sure it's not like they're aiming at someone and pulling the trigger, more like just grabbing a machine gun and spraying bullets randomly, maybe it'll hit someone tonight, maybe not.

Drinking=Good
Driving=Good
Drinking+Driving=Bad

Alcohol doesn't kill people. Idiocy kills people.

isnt this like blaming the gun for the crime??? should we put the gun on trial?? i know that you have never mentioned this but i don't care
no, we should ban all drinking, all guns, and anything else that can cause war, lets just make it simple, and make a drug that gets rid of the ability to have emotion, and then you can have clerics going around with guns seeking out those that still have emotions and that don't take the drug. They would destroy all things that stir emotions, like art, music, games, etc, and they would burn all evidence of these things in great furnaces. And Father would be our leader.

Drinking=Good
Driving=Good
Drinking+Driving=Bad

Alcohol doesn't kill people. Idiocy kills people.
sadly idiocy has a higher rate of accuracy when killing OTHER people

Let's ban alcohol.

And while we're at it, let's go for tobacco, red meat, vegetables (they ARE alive and you ARE killing them!!), keeping pets (cruel!) and all research and development involving plants or animals.

Oh, shit. We just stopped society.

And I seem to recall something about God making man the master of the Earth, with all that it contains. So banning alcohol is against the will of God? Hmm...

Fellow Catholic,
Markreich

I was hit by a !@#$%^ drunk driver, I wasnt hurt severly and thank goodness my dog wasnt either, I was pissed. The truth is though, that man had the choice to get in his car or not. He choice to do so even though he could barely walk or talk. People make stupid decisions, but they do that without being under the influence of anything as well, banning alcohol isnt going to solve anything. People make stupid decisions. I think all of us here can say we have made some form of stupid decision at one time or another.

I had a wreck with a drunk 15 years ago. It put me in the hospital for 11 weeks and a wheelchair for 2 years and 6 surgeries while they rebuilt my leg. The damage done to my other leg ended up in a hip replacement 2 years ago. So, yeah, I really have a vendetta against drunk drivers. Banning alcohol isn't the solution, though. Living in Arkansas, I can give you the location of at least 2 stills. Drunks are addicts and they're going to get their booze one way or another.

One stay, can't remember which one, has a special license plate for people convicted of DUI. If they're caught driving another vehicle they do prison time. The license plate alerts other drivers and the cops that the person behind the wheel might have been drinking and needs to be watched. The police can pull them over without cause and do a sobriety test. If the embarrassment of driving a car with a drunk tag on it doesn't get them under control, I'm sure their families and whoever else has to drive that car will.

alcomahol is good

I hardly think a drunk driver should be charged with murder. Manslaughter, certainly, but there is a destinct legal difference between intentionally killing someone and accidentally killing someone...

I hate alcohol. Immensly. It has caused numerous deaths of thousands of innocents on the road. Innocent families on their way home from work or shopping or whatever get hit by some sub-human drunkard returning from a bar and die or get seriously injured. And then these damn murderers get a few days in rehabilitation. Forget that. If I had my way we'd lock them up in prison for about 50 years. Alas, it unfortunatly won't happen. However, there are some things that may hopefully happen. Some politician might realize that bars are a menace and ban them. To get to a bar, you usually need to drive. At a bar you drink. And then on the way home you drive. After drinking. So essentially you are driving home intoxicated and you are a menace. Bars cause deaths. Nowhere in the constitution or common sense do they have a justification. Ban them. Also bars and alcohol lead to forms of immorality but I won't get into that now.

i have consumed alcohol since i was seven (my extended family owns a vinyard, and i have been allowed wine with dinner since seven) and i have never driven drunk. i have never ridden in a car with an intoxicated driver. i have never permitted any of my friends to drive drunk.

if you hate drunk driving that's good. hell, that's GREAT. but hating alcohol because some people choose to misuse it is stupid. that's like saying, "i hate driving, because some people drive while drinking and kill people! nobody should be allowed to drive, because it's not in the constitution!"

just so you understand, the Constitution states that any rights that are not specifically mentioned are to be assumed as permitted (rather than the opposite). you need to brush up on your Con Law just a little bit.


Make no mistake, I'm a Catholic and at each Mass I drink the blood of Christ in the form of wine. But thats the only alcohol I drink. And it is one sip a week. I think religous groups should be allowed their rituals because they are for a different purpose than drinking for the sake of drinking. But for the rest of alcohol, I say get rid of it. Its deadly crap. Do to it what we justifiably did to weed and crack. Thoughts on this?
ahh, i get it. religions that use alcohohl should get special treatment, but nobody else. well, in that case, i hearby found a religion that is based around allowing people to drink whenever they choose to do so; if you try to take away that right from our followers, you are violating our religious freedom. sorry, you lose.

where did the idea of personal responsibility go, anyhow? why are so many people this pathetic, that they need the government to parent them or they need to feel like they are parenting other adults?

Commando2 you just ask for it thread after thread. OK drunk driving is already enforced so severely that its rediculous. In ohio you have to have an oversized orange license plate if you've ever had a dui. In NC you can get stopped at random and forced to take a breathalizer or go to jail, even if you are completely sober. I read about your 1 beer a week idea in another thread, and I have to tell ya, its just not right. I would like to know what caused you to be so anti-alcohol. I am also a christian and I enjoy drinking with my brothers, friends, and especially my wife. Now, I dont get so drunk that I cant control my actions, and I dont drive anywhere either so just what is the harm. You need to lighten up and have a few beers yourself. Alcohol is god given, so if you dont hurt yourself our anyone else because of it
then if you want to, you should enjoy it, enjoy the fullness of life. This dosent include illegal drugs, because they are illegal, you just have to use some common sense and self control. I personally dont think that the police should ever stop cars for no reason and force people to take tests, or ostracize citizens for a mistake made in the past.

As usual, my cat thinks things out more thoroughly than Commando. I keep looking at his posts because I'm such an optomist. I keep hoping that, with practice, he'll think things through enough to make a coherent arguement. I know I'll never agree with him, but maybe he'll begin to sound like something besides a disturbed child who has no ability to reason.

ahh, i get it. religions that use alcohohl should get special treatment, but nobody else. well, in that case, i hearby found a religion that is based around allowing people to drink whenever they choose to do so; if you try to take away that right from our followers, you are violating our religious freedom. sorry, you lose.

sorry, religious freedom only applies to the Christian religion.

not sure if anyone has adressed this yet.

If alcohol had been discovered in this day and age it would be a controlled subtance like marijuana etc. Since its been around a good 2500 years, we can't do much about it

not sure if anyone has adressed this yet.

If alcohol had been discovered in this day and age it would be a controlled subtance like marijuana etc. Since its been around a good 2500 years, we can't do much about it

weed's been around for awhile too..

You can't ban alcohol. Idiocy kills more people each year than things related to alcohol. That is the real problem. Ban idiocy I say.

It's called Darwin Awards.

I have nothing against alcohol, but drunk driving is a very stupid risk to take.

Personally I prefer weed to alcohol, it's much more suited to my personality.

There is nothing evil about alcohol in itself, as it is just a chemical. The evil is the people who abuse the drink. The people who are so irresponsible as to drink themselves stupid then drive.

Commando2 - thou art of subhuman intellect when thou dost spew such incoherent ramblings such as this one. For thee, instead of confession, I believe thou shalt benefit from reading.

War on Drugs FAQ (http://www.drugwarfaq.com/).

Whilest the above is on the topic of drugs, it drawth parallels to America's failed years of its costly prohibition.

I think thou art foolish.

Thou hath not an ounce of tolerance in thy blood.

Open thy mind and ye world is a much nicer place.

Drinking isn't a crime, nor is driving. It's just ye mix of ye two into a deadly chemical reaction that has adverse affects.

Before thou shalt open thine mouth, open thine mind and educate thy self.

not sure if anyone has adressed this yet.

If alcohol had been discovered in this day and age it would be a controlled subtance like marijuana etc. Since its been around a good 2500 years, we can't do much about it

I would venture a guess that alcohol is a bit older then 2500 years.

I think 4000 BC and possibly as early as 6000 BC

I think its pretty rude to ridicule commando's religious beliefs just because he is against alcohol. I think thou art an assholio.

Like all other reasonable, decent and trustworthy men, I love alcohol and its effects.

Drunk driving on the other hand I do not love, and have long advocated truly draconian laws against it.

I think its pretty rude to ridicule commando's religious beliefs just because he is against alcohol. I think thou art an assholio.
I am not picking on his beliefs, I'm picking on him because I think he's being a little unreasonable. I was trying to find a nice way of saying what I thought and it seemed like a more tractful approace given I'm usually a venomous snake.

Prohibition was a failure only because enforcement was not abundant enough. If they could make it work, I'm all for a dry nation.


I bet you're loads of fun at parties.

I bet you're loads of fun at parties.
I already said that. Could you imagine going to one of this kid's parties?
*yawn*

I already said that. Could you imagine going to one of this kid's parties?
*yawn*
no, I can't.

Hey, why don't we get him drunk and see how his ideas change?

I'm sure you wouldn't mind a ban on guns, knives, smoking, and Christianity which all have their roots in many deaths, would you?

Here's how I see it:
guns, knives, and religion all have their pros and cons.
smoking, drugs, and alcohol? well, the certainly have their cons... their pros? what, some idiots thing they're fun? wtf?

I bet you're loads of fun at parties.

Woah, wait a minute... you have to drink to have fun? Holy hell, you need to find a hobby or something!

This really pisses me off. EVERY time I speak up about my opinions against alcohol, the response I always get is "you should get drunk some time! you'd like it!!"

Here's the thing.
1 - why can't I have fun without getting drunk?
2 - I don't see what the point of having fun is when you're drunk anyway since you won't remember like half of it
3 - losing all sense of reality and control of yourself then spending the next morning puking your guts out doesn't sound like fun to me.

Seriously, all arguments I've ever heard in my life FOR alcohol have been just about the worst excuses I've heard. This may come as a surprise to you, but life isn't all about the "parties." If that's what you live for then you're a complete waste of flesh. You're doing nothing for this planet but consuming resources that would have been better spent someplace else.

I am not picking on his beliefs, I'm picking on him because I think he's being a little unreasonable. I was trying to find a nice way of saying what I thought and it seemed like a more tractful approace given I'm usually a venomous snake.
Your right he is unreasonable, no harm done. Besides assholio is probably not the worst name you've been called today either. the io on the end is meant to be endearing, no really!!!

1 - why can't I have fun without getting drunk?

You can have fun either way.

Moderation rocks!

Yes you can. Just try a drink - just one. It can be a very social thing where you only have one drink every couple of hours, or none at all. Drinking I think is best done with friends when you just want to go out and socialise. Alcohol and food can make for a good conversation (in moderation).

2 - I don't see what the point of having fun is when you're drunk anyway since you won't remember like half of it

It's not the case for some people. But, in all fairness, there is no point to getting completely hammered. That's just no fun, but drinking itself isn't such a bad thing.

3 - losing all sense of reality and control of yourself then spending the next morning puking your guts out doesn't sound like fun to me.

We call that a hang over and you only get it if you drink too much.

If you drink in moderation and have water with your alcohol, you can actually feel quite fine the next morning.

You can't always judge a book by looking at the cover.

Your right he is unreasonable, no harm done.
No problem. I know I can be misunderstood sometimes. No harm done. :D

I think its pretty rude to ridicule commando's religious beliefs just because he is against alcohol. I think thou art an assholio.

I agree, but if you have read Commando's other threads you know he is in favor of government as an uber-nanny, protecting us from rude speech, immorality, rowdy party behavior, and all manner of vices he has interpreted as evil.

I agree, but if you have read Commando's other threads you know he is in favor of government as an uber-nanny, protecting us from rude speech, immorality, rowdy party behavior, and all manner of vices he has interpreted as evil.
True, he's practically at times deemed that breathing hard should be banned. :D ok, I'm being stupid, but, read a few of his other threads. He can be very extreme.

So, wait a minute... he's extreme for expecting more from society and a government to enforce it, but these idiots posting threads like "why hasn't bush been assassinated yet!" and "bush is going to be the downfall of america!!" aren't? :confused:

So, wait a minute... he's extreme for expecting more from society and a government to enforce it, but these idiots posting threads like "why hasn't bush been assassinated yet!" and "bush is going to be the downfall of america!!" aren't? :confused:
They're all idiots. They are just different forms of idiots.

So, wait a minute... he's extreme for expecting more from society and a government to enforce it, but these idiots posting threads like "why hasn't bush been assassinated yet!" and "bush is going to be the downfall of america!!" aren't? :confused:
Those poeple are too stupid to even provoke a reply. They'll get my heinz ketchup label pasted in their thread.

They're all idiots. They are just different forms of idiots.

Right, one (commando) actually has good intentions. Unfortunately impractical, maybe, but good. The others are just idiots. Right?

No, I don't think Commando's an idiot at all. I just think nobody likes the idea of losing the ability to do whatever they want without taking responsibility for it.

I already said that. Could you imagine going to one of this kid's parties?
*yawn*


Ah, appologies, I didnt read all the pages when i posted that bit.

Like Mr. HL Mencken so wisely wrote:

"A Puritan is someone who is desperately afraid that, somewhere,
someone might be having a good time"


All a decent and reasonable person can feel for people like commando or new anthrus is pity, as one feels towards the victim of a crime or an illness or a natural disaster.

Commando2 is really Tom Wolfe doing research on his new book about the the culture war.

The book is called " I am charlotte Simmons brother Commando2"

Like Mr. HL Mencken so wisely wrote:

"A Puritan is someone who is desperately afraid that, somewhere,
someone might be having a good time"

I'm still trying to find the "wisdom" in that quote. I think I see some wit, however shallow it may be, but I'm clearly missing the wisdom...

Yup, because prohibition worked out great last time around didn't it?I concur.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again? ;)

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again? ;)
I suggest that you might want to take look at the FAQ link I provded early. It provides good reasons as to why prohibition actually is worse than having alcohol legalised.

Right, one (commando) actually has good intentions. Unfortunately impractical, maybe, but good. The others are just idiots. Right?

No, I don't think Commando's an idiot at all. I just think nobody likes the idea of losing the ability to do whatever they want without taking responsibility for it.


I thank you correction for understanding my position on this and not flaming me and calling me a facist like some other people here.

People don't kill people, robots kill people.


/with lasers

Alcohol itself is not evil, so there is no reason to ban it. In fact, alcohol in moderation is very healthy.

Agreed. I myself am not a drinker, but I know plenty of responsible, moderate drinkers.

Agreed. I myself am not a drinker, but I know plenty of responsible, moderate drinkers.
Ditto. It's not fair to judge drinkers because of the actions of a few irresponsible people.

Agreed. I myself am not a drinker, but I know plenty of responsible, moderate drinkers.


Ditto with the first. I also know plenty of irresponsible, binge drinkers. I still wouldn't ban it though. I just think the punishment for irresponsibility should be greater than it currently is. They are still, I admit, the minority, after all.

I suggest that you might want to take look at the FAQ link I provded early. It provides good reasons as to why prohibition actually is worse than having alcohol legalised.

Looks to me like that entire FAQ is based on two points: the failure of prohibition and the increase in violence as a result of it.

Sorry, but reading that, I got the strong impression that the author was not only biased, but his arguments were totally based on historical observations. Just because it didn't work in the past doesn't mean some changes could be made to make it work in the future. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we could pass it tomarrow and it work, and at the rate society is degrading it probably couldn't ever work, but with with an effective enforcement I'd be all for it.

I think I was dead set against drinking up until I was about 16 years old. My parents didnt drink and all I heard about it was bad. Well now that I'm an adult, I do drink and so do my parents now. They just didn't want any alcohol in the house while they were raising us. Had a few beers with my dad the other day. I dont think I'll drink around my kids when I have them either. Cant see how I can tell my kids no alcohol in the house when I have some. Parents need to occupy the moral high ground and be beyond reproach to their children, at least to the extent that we all can. I guess my question is to COMMANDO, how old are you?

I like drinking. A couple of mixed drinks relaxes me and I don't feel self-conscious on the dance floor. I may still not dance any better, but I don't care. I don't get in fights, puke on the floor or drive drunk. Because someone else can't be responsible, I should be censured? Now let's make anything that anyone misuses illegal. Not much left to do, eh? Computers and the internet can be misused, so I suppose they're next.

So, Commando, should we say you can't use the internet because some people are hackers? Makes as much sense.

This really pisses me off. EVERY time I speak up about my opinions against alcohol, the response I always get is "you should get drunk some time! you'd like it!!"

Here's the thing.
1 - why can't I have fun without getting drunk?

nobody is claiming that you can't, only that you shouldn't claim that drinking is horrible if you have never tried it.

put it this way: pretend that you have never tried ribs. (maybe you really haven't, in which case this will be an easy game for you :)) people who have tried ribs, and who like them, tell you that you should give them a try. instead, you scream that ribs are NEVER good, that eating ribs makes people fat and gross, and that you hate hate hate ribs and will never try them.

now, are your friends being mean or crazy by suggesting you try something, once, before deciding you don't like it?


2 - I don't see what the point of having fun is when you're drunk anyway since you won't remember like half of it

i have consumed alcohol many, many times, and only a fraction of those times have i even been drunk. out of all the times i have consumed alcohol, i have only had trouble remember the events of the night on ONE occasion. indeed, when i pull all-nighters (totally drug free) i tend to have more trouble remembering what happened then if i drink.


3 - losing all sense of reality and control of yourself then spending the next morning puking your guts out doesn't sound like fun to me.

i have never, in my life, had a hangover. i have only thrown up from drinking once, and it was during the night in question (not the next morning).

you seem to think that drinking at all means drinking to excess. that's like saying, "i will never eat ribs, because people who eat ribs eat until they puke, ruin their hearts, and become morbidly obese." it's very easy to drink but not get drunk, or to use alcohol in moderation and never get more than a light buzz. many wines and liquors taste very good...it's not always about getting drunk or anything like that, it's often about a pleasing flavor. until you have sampled a 76 year old cognac, don't write off alcohol :).

Seriously, all arguments I've ever heard in my life FOR alcohol have been just about the worst excuses I've heard. This may come as a surprise to you, but life isn't all about the "parties." If that's what you live for then you're a complete waste of flesh. You're doing nothing for this planet but consuming resources that would have been better spent someplace else.
if the only arguments you have heard in support of freedom of choice and personal responsibility are "well then we can get wasted and party" then you are hanging around very stupid people. if the only use your friends or peers have for alcohol is to drink until they throw up then you have stupid friends and peers.

if you think that anybody who drinks or uses drugs is automatically hedonistic and a waste of space then you need to get out more. i used drugs and alcohol all through my young life (still do, from time to time) and i graduated first in my class of 350. i hold bachelors degrees in Biology, Philosophy, and Psychology. i am currently a doctoral student working toward a Ph.D. in Pharmacology or Neuroscience. i say this not to brag, but simply to point out that many winners do, in fact, use drugs :).

if you personally don't have the self control to drink in moderation then you shouldn't drink; if you don't have the self control to eat in moderation then you shouldn't be allowed to choose your own diet. if you can't choose to have a drink and then take a cab home rather than driving, then you shouldn't drink. but just because you are irresponsible, immature, and incompetant as a human being doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to be treated like infants along with you.

Looks to me like that entire FAQ is based on two points: the failure of prohibition and the increase in violence as a result of it.
...reading that, I got the strong impression that the author was not only biased, but his arguments were totally based on historical observations.

um, you say that like it's a bad thing. yes, the author accurately reports what happened the last time we tried making alcohol illegal...being "biased" toward reality is not a negative trait.

Just because it didn't work in the past doesn't mean some changes could be made to make it work in the future.

current drug policy tends to prove you wrong. aparently modern nations are not capable of finding a way to prohibit drugs or alcohol in a way that will avoid increases in violence, increases in deaths from overdose or impurities, and infringement on the basic rights of privacy supposedly granted to all citizens.

How dou you like being schooled about alcohol by an admitted drug user known only as "Bottle", who is studying pharmacology.

I love getting pissed.

Well, he does seem to have studied it.

-snip-

Ya know, alcohol is good for you in moderation.

Moderate drinking (up to about two drinks per day) reduces your risk of death, because it reduces your risk of CHD.

http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijcvr/vol2n1/alcohol.xml
has some information.

i have no idea what;s been posted on here, i just wanted to comment on the topic itself. i love alcohol, it responsible for much happiness and innumerable fat chicks getting laid. but i despise drunk driving. there is a huge difference....

How dou you like being schooled about alcohol by an admitted drug user known only as "Bottle", who is studying pharmacology.
Ooh, Bottle studies pharmacology?

Cool!
Fascinating stuff, it is.

Well, he does seem to have studied it.
its just ironic, made me chuckle. I actually agree with him.

Right, one (commando) actually has good intentions. Unfortunately impractical, maybe, but good. The others are just idiots. Right?

No, I don't think Commando's an idiot at all. I just think nobody likes the idea of losing the ability to do whatever they want without taking responsibility for it.

Well, I for one do believe in taking responsibility for my actions. Which is why I don't want someone incapable of taking responsibility deciding what I can and can't do.

If Commando wan't alcohol banned as dangerous, we must ban everything more dangerous: motorvehicles, fast food, sun tanning, reading, television, religion, .... do I really need to go on?

Better suggestion would be for people who can't grow up to be restricted to appropriate level of supervision. Those who apparently feel they can't behave responsibly can voluntarily enter such supervision programs.


ADDED

My parent's had alcohol in the house all the time, we have two kids and there is alcohol in our house. We have the moral high ground because we choose to drink responsibly and we will teach our children how to drink responsibly as well.

I don't have any religious or moral disagreement with alcohol; yet, I have never been evel slightly tipsy or drunk in my life (and at 18, that's pretty impressive, i think).

I mean, I have many friends who love drinking, and I ahve been over at their houses when they do get pissed, and I have no problem with them drinking, but I have no inkling to go and get smashed till i can't see straight. Temptation arises every once in a while, but I resist. It seems extreme inebriation is for those who haven't the willpower to overcome the difficulties of life with a clear mind...or maybe its for those who aren't uptight neurotics as i can sometimes be.

I can never remember which one. Still, though I can't believe I am saying it, I agree with Commando2. But you can all get smashed for all I care. I'll be laughing along right beside you. :)

Well, I for one do believe in taking responsibility for my actions. Which is why I don't want someone incapable of taking responsibility deciding what I can and can't do.

If Commando wan't alcohol banned as dangerous, we must ban everything more dangerous: motorvehicles, fast food, sun tanning, reading, television, religion, .... do I really need to go on?

Better suggestion would be for people who can't grow up to be restricted to appropriate level of supervision. Those who apparently feel they can't behave responsibly can voluntarily enter such supervision programs.


ADDED

My parent's had alcohol in the house all the time, we have two kids and there is alcohol in our house. We have the moral high ground because we choose to drink responsibly and we will teach our children how to drink responsibly as well.
You teach your children how to drink?

What I meant by that post is that I think when Commando speaks, we are really hearing his mother...IE he's a kid himself, that would explain it and maybe save him from so much ridicule. I dont care about you having alcohol around you children, its fine with me. I was just using my parents as a reference as to why I thought alcohol was bad when I was a kid, and now I have drinks with my dad. No offense, I'm sure you are a fine parent.

PS My last post was pure smart assery.

Here's a thought, you try to interfere with my right to drink, I'll interfere with your right to breath.

I think its pretty rude to ridicule commando's religious beliefs just because he is against alcohol. I think thou art an assholio.
I suggest you take a look at most of his other posts dude...all of the same vein...

I maintain that if a person refuses to drink in their youth then they are a fool because they miss great joys which as the years advance they will never again have the opportunity to experience.

You can be sober at any age, but you can only be young and drunk for a few choice years in a long life.

Here's a thought, you try to interfere with my right to drink, I'll interfere with your right to breath.
:D
It works, it works.

Yup, because prohibition worked out great last time around didn't it?
It was kind of a wreck, wasn't it? I hate alcohol, too. But prohibition would just be impossible and impractical nowadays. Not to mention, unconstitutional. We should just increase penalties for drunk driving.

Alcohol itself is not a problem. It is just a very small, neutrally charged molecule that acts as a depressant, reducing anxiety, tensions, and inhibitions. When used in moderation alcohol gives a person a feeling of relaxation and well-being.

Certainly there are times when relaxation and loss of inhibitions can be liberating.

The larger problem is that we, as a society, seem to be fundamentally preoccupied with finding ways to distract ourselves from life. We watch endless hours of T.V., play video games, take drugs, post messages on discussion boards, and, yes, drink alcohol to excess.

John Lennon said, “life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans.” For many of us life is what happens when we’re busy filling our days with diversions.

Well, the only way I can see it.. Is to drink responsibly!

Which unfortunately isn't the case for most people. So I'm most of the times the driver for drunk people.. And I get to drive myriad of cool cars! So that they don't puke in my side/backseat.

I've come to hate alcohol, just because I've seen it do horrible things to people. I've seen people that I respected and enjoyed spending time with turn into complete asstards when they drank too much. I've had to help several people who were so drunk they couldn't even go to the bathroom on their own. Yeah, I know alcohol isn't really evil and if you use it responsibly it's not that big a deal. But I'm beyond that point already. I can't help myself, I just don't like it.

As for drunk drivers... I'd better not get started on that.

I think that I'm allowed to be an ahole when I've managed to put myself a few sheets to the wind.

I think that I'd be stupid to think that I could drive in that situation...and that I deserve whatever punishment I'd get if I either get caught, or hurt someone.

Now that I've admitted that, F off.

It's my liver, it's my body, stay off it. Play with that one as you wish.

Christ created alcohol with his own powers at one point in time....according to your religious doctrine. Gee, it must be the spawn of satan. Fight that one out.

Imagine if he'd created Gatorade instead of wine....the world might be a different place today. Other than that, I'm glad idiots like you aren't in control of my country. I'd have to move to someplace that doesn't completely destroy my right to wreak havoc on my liver. Like Germany.

Roots are good.

How dou you like being schooled about alcohol by an admitted drug user known only as "Bottle", who is studying pharmacology.
;)

Well, the only way I can see it.. Is to drink responsibly!

Which unfortunately isn't the case for most people.


incorrect. it may not be true for the people YOU hang out with, but the vast majority of people who consume alcohol do so in moderation.

nobody is claiming that you can't, only that you shouldn't claim that drinking is horrible if you have never tried it.

put it this way: pretend that you have never tried ribs. (maybe you really haven't, in which case this will be an easy game for you :)) people who have tried ribs, and who like them, tell you that you should give them a try. instead, you scream that ribs are NEVER good, that eating ribs makes people fat and gross, and that you hate hate hate ribs and will never try them.

now, are your friends being mean or crazy by suggesting you try something, once, before deciding you don't like it?

Ribs are a horrible example in this case. Ribs don't have cons that painfully outweigh the pros.


i have consumed alcohol many, many times, and only a fraction of those times have i even been drunk. out of all the times i have consumed alcohol, i have only had trouble remember the events of the night on ONE occasion. indeed, when i pull all-nighters (totally drug free) i tend to have more trouble remembering what happened then if i drink.


i have never, in my life, had a hangover. i have only thrown up from drinking once, and it was during the night in question (not the next morning).

you seem to think that drinking at all means drinking to excess. that's like saying, "i will never eat ribs, because people who eat ribs eat until they puke, ruin their hearts, and become morbidly obese." it's very easy to drink but not get drunk, or to use alcohol in moderation and never get more than a light buzz. many wines and liquors taste very good...it's not always about getting drunk or anything like that, it's often about a pleasing flavor. until you have sampled a 76 year old cognac, don't write off alcohol :).

If you're not drinking to get drunk, then why drink? And don't tell me "it tastes good." Have a coke.
This is another popular argument I often hear... "Drinking shouldn't be illegal! I drink all the time but I never get drunk." That doesn't mean squat. Just because you don't doesn't mean others won't, either.


if the only arguments you have heard in support of freedom of choice and personal responsibility are "well then we can get wasted and party" then you are hanging around very stupid people. if the only use your friends or peers have for alcohol is to drink until they throw up then you have stupid friends and peers.

These "stupid people" you're referring to aren't people I hang around. They're people like and including those in this thread. ;)


if you think that anybody who drinks or uses drugs is automatically hedonistic and a waste of space then you need to get out more. i used drugs and alcohol all through my young life (still do, from time to time) and i graduated first in my class of 350. i hold bachelors degrees in Biology, Philosophy, and Psychology. i am currently a doctoral student working toward a Ph.D. in Pharmacology or Neuroscience. i say this not to brag, but simply to point out that many winners do, in fact, use drugs :).

The winners who used drugs could still be winners without drugs, but there are many losers who might not be losers had it not been for drugs and alcohol.
I don't care how much you'd hate to admit it, you simply can't deny that a world without drugs and alcohol wouldn't be overall benificial to society. It's been my main argument all along and I still haven't seen anyone directly confront it: The cons GREATLY outweigh the pros.


if you personally don't have the self control to drink in moderation then you shouldn't drink; if you don't have the self control to eat in moderation then you shouldn't be allowed to choose your own diet. if you can't choose to have a drink and then take a cab home rather than driving, then you shouldn't drink. but just because you are irresponsible, immature, and incompetant as a human being doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to be treated like infants along with you.

Like I said before, it's not about just you or me. It's about the majority of society. I'm not saying there aren't some people who do drink or use drugs and are "responsible" with it (although in my opinion "responsible" would mean you never start in the first place), but the fact remains that most people AREN'T, and MOST of the time it DOESN'T ruin only THEIR lives.

Ribs are a horrible example in this case. Ribs don't have cons that painfully outweigh the pros.

sure they do. the ONLY benefit that ribs provide (as opposed to any other form of sustenance) is flavor, and they have several serious negative health impacts. by eating ribs, the only benefit you get is liking the taste, and you get that taste at the expense of your health. in contrast, drinking small amounts of alcohol each day will benefit you in several ways.

put it another way:

if you had one small serving of ribs every day, as a part of an otherwise balanced diet, you would not see any improvement in your health. you would actually, most likely, be less healthy then if you had chosen not to eat the ribs. in contrast, if you add one serving of alcohol to an otherwise balanced diet, your health will be better than if you had chosen not to have that glass of wine or whatever.


If you're not drinking to get drunk, then why drink? And don't tell me "it tastes good." Have a coke.

it does taste good, and i don't like coke. by your logic, nobody should ever be allowed to eat fried chicken; they can't tell me it tastes good, and it has negative impacts on their health, so they should just have some plain boiled chicken instead.


This is another popular argument I often hear... "Drinking shouldn't be illegal! I drink all the time but I never get drunk." That doesn't mean squat. Just because you don't doesn't mean others won't, either.

so? in America we don't punish random people for the bad choices that strangers make. just because you or your friends are incapable of maturity and moderation doesn't mean i should be punished for your foolishness.


These "stupid people" you're referring to aren't people I hang around. They're people like and including those in this thread. ;)

clearly not. i haven't seen anybody in this thread yet who would appear to fit the bill you describe. in fact, in my whole life i think i might have met a total of three people who drink the way you seem to think all people drink. and i have lived in major cities, attended college, and had a fairly active social life. you are hating on a myth, my friend, and you need to get out more.


The winners who used drugs could still be winners without drugs, but there are many losers who might not be losers had it not been for drugs and alcohol.

so what? there are many people who wouldn't be losers if they would just stop eating fried chicken, but you aren't arguing that we ban fried chicken. there are many people who are losers because they can't stop falling in love with the wrong people, but you aren't demanding that the government choose our lovers for us. every person needs to make their own choices...that's called "being a grown up." you'll get there some day, i promise.


I don't care how much you'd hate to admit it, you simply can't deny that a world without drugs and alcohol wouldn't be overall benificial to society.

i can deny it, because i believe you are wrong. isn't it neat how not all people think like you?


It's been my main argument all along and I still haven't seen anyone directly confront it: The cons GREATLY outweigh the pros.

you haven't made any argument. you have made random, unsupported statements about how drugs and alcohol ruin the world, basing your entire thesis on your belief that it is impossible to use in moderation or to allow adult humans to decide what they ingest. your "cons" are fictional, and you refuse to acknowledge any of the factual "pros."

over all, i would give your effort a D+...the passion is there, but i just don't see any effort in the research or the follow through.


Like I said before, it's not about just you or me. It's about the majority of society. I'm not saying there aren't some people who do drink or use drugs and are "responsible" with it (although in my opinion "responsible" would mean you never start in the first place), but the fact remains that most people AREN'T, and MOST of the time it DOESN'T ruin only THEIR lives.
you aren't giving any facts at all to back this up. the reality is that the vast majority of people who drink will never be harmed by it, will never harm others, and will never suffer significant effects from it. you have a warped view based on nothing but your own skewed perceptions, and until you present facts it is unlikely that you will be regarded as much more than a petulent child throwing a tantrum because the cool kids won't invite you to their parties.

Well, as a general rule my religious and moral beliefs (which are not Christian) ban just about every form of mind-altering substance. I personally do not see the appeal some people find in flooding one's body with large amounts of poisonous chemicals. Of course, so long as doing this does not inflict harm on anyone aside from the user it is a matter of personal choice, the problem is that all to often drunks will harm their families and if they get behind the wheel of a car they can put everyone in danger.

Hopefully, someday humanity can take on a more evolved consciousness that will no longer find poisoning oneself and putting others in danger as an entertaining diversion. Until that happens I would personally like to see stiffer penalties for drunk driving. The comparison one person in the thread made between drunk driving and firing a gun at random seems to be quite accurate, both activities put innocent people at risk through reckless behavior. I also think harsher penalties for killing a person while under the influence are reasonable, as a person drinks and drives is knowingly putting others at increased risk as opposed to driving when sober. To be fair such penalties should also be applied to people who drive while excessively sleep-deprived, talking on a cell phone, or any other activity that creates an unreasonable risk to others.

That said, banning alcohol is not really a practical solution. As long as it remains greatly desired by society it will be widespread, so the more sensible solution for those who wish to get rid of alcohol is to work hard at continuing to stigmatize alcohol and generally work to make drunkenness much less acceptable. Once people no longer view going out, flooding your body with poisonous chemicals, and then putting everyone else at increased risk while driving home as a socially acceptable form of entertainment alcohol will simply wither out and die on its own because the demand for it will evaporate

I have no problem with people drinking. It's a personal choice. I am against drunk driving. It's taking an irresponsible risk with the lives of everyone else on the road.