NationStates Jolt Archive

I think that the US national debt is a growing problem that needs to be adressed soon. As of now, the United States is in debt about 7.6 trillion dollers and it is going up everyday. It is causing the US dollar to go down in value. For those of you who don't know, the Euro is now worth more then the US doller. I think that the US needs to cut spending and start paying back the debt otherwise it is going to come back and haunt every United States citizin. Am I the only that thinks we need to get rid of the debt or am I alone? For those of you that would support getting rid of the debt would you support raising taxes and cutting spending? If not what would you propose we do.

Sorry the ghost of Regan has degreed from beyond the grave that deficits don't matter, and that half a trillion dollar a year deficits are the best way for long term economic growth.

Seriously I think the Republicans have just gone insane, especially these young republicans. Its like great a bunch of rich assholes get even richer, and future generations get to pay for it. What a stupid deal.

I think that the US national debt is a growing problem that needs to be adressed soon. As of now, the United States is in debt about 7.6 trillion dollers and it is going up everyday. It is causing the US dollar to go down in value. For those of you who don't know, the Euro is now worth more then the US doller. I think that the US needs to cut spending and start paying back the debt otherwise it is going to come back and haunt every United States citizin. Am I the only that thinks we need to get rid of the debt or am I alone? For those of you that would support getting rid of the debt would you support raising taxes and cutting spending? If not what would you propose we do.

Reasons why I'm not worried:
1. You have to compare the debt to the GDP. If you do that then our debt isn't out of control (according to history).
2. A weak US dollar is great for companies who are looking to export their goods.
3. I think if we collected our outstanding debts from countries that owe us we'd probably break even.
4. Its spelled "dollar."

I think the debt isn't high enough yet. 500 billion increase a year should be doubled. Or better yet trippled.

http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html

I think that the US national debt is a growing problem that needs to be adressed soon. As of now, the United States is in debt about 7.6 trillion dollers and it is going up everyday. It is causing the US dollar to go down in value. For those of you who don't know, the Euro is now worth more then the US doller. I think that the US needs to cut spending and start paying back the debt otherwise it is going to come back and haunt every United States citizin. Am I the only that thinks we need to get rid of the debt or am I alone? For those of you that would support getting rid of the debt would you support raising taxes and cutting spending? If not what would you propose we do.

Are you talking about forign debt or Domestic national debt ? because government bonds issued to american investors doen't mseem all that bad if you think about it. But theres no need for a defict that only adds to the problem in todays age. Here in Canada we went from being nation with the fastest growing debt problem to the nation with the lest ammount of debt in the G8 club. Sure you have to pay more taxes, but running a defict will have to be solved at some point, and that means lower taxes for you, higher taxes for your children.

I know this sounds stupid. But the government is who makes and prints the money, right? So why don't they just make more....then they can break even or something. :p

Notice the change in the National Debt circa 1982 (http://brillig.com/debt_clock/inflation.gif)

I know this sounds stupid. But the government is who makes and prints the money, right? So why don't they just make more....then they can break even or something. :p
It's called inflation.

See Germany, post WW1.

The US economy has been declining for decades, thinking that things are going to get better in the long term is a joke.

The US economy has been declining for decades, thinking that things are going to get better in the long term is a joke.
the national debt doesn't have much to do with the state of the economy

Reasons why I'm not worried:
1. You have to compare the debt to the GDP. If you do that then our debt isn't out of control (according to history).
2. A weak US dollar is great for companies who are looking to export their goods.
3. I think if we collected our outstanding debts from countries that owe us we'd probably break even.
4. Its spelled "dollar."

Except that a good bit of our GDP is debt generated.

A weak dollar means nothing because everything is manufactured off shore.

Even the Japanese Central Bank stopped financing us and the Chinese are now grumbling that they can't keep buying dollars for very long.

It's spelled recession and double digit inflation. See the early 1970s it sucked. You'll see the dollar voluntary devalued and hyper inflation within the next four years.

Have fun.

It's called inflation.

See Germany, post WW1.
Yeah, the government basically said "The more the merrier!". By November 1923, what used to buy you a house might get you a cheap table. Workers were allowed not one, but two breaks per day so that they could buy things before prices went up even higher. It took months to get the inflation straightened out. That whole ordeal helped with the popularity of a certain National Socialist Workers Party.

On November 20, 1923 the value of one US dollar was equal to 4,200,000,000,000 marks!

The US economy has been declining for decades, thinking that things are going to get better in the long term is a joke.

In the long run, we are all dead. - John Maynard Keynes

the national debt doesn't have much to do with the state of the economy

true, but taking up a huge debt with the rationale that it will improve the economy (which will in turn help pay of debts) does have lots to do with it.

The US economy has been declining for decades, thinking that things are going to get better in the long term is a joke.
The theory is that if we keep running up debt constantly, we won't have to pay it off. Pretty stupid, huh?

A weak dollar means nothing because everything is manufactured off shore.


wrong, because the USA still exports around $700 billion dollars worth of goods per year, not only manufactures but also raw materials and food.

the national debt doesn't have much to do with the state of the economy

LMAO.

Seriously I nearly fell off my chair. I've got tears in my eyes.

true, but taking up a huge debt with the rationale that it will improve the economy (which will in turn help pay of debts) does have lots to do with it.
I agree, the Republicans have severely mismanaged our economy with their excessive military expenditures. However debt in itself is not fatal (unless it gets way out of control in the case of Japan) and I think you are incorrect to say that the USA's economy has been declining for several decades. We've experienced good growth, and some of the richest nations in the world (USA and EU) and the fastest growing economies in the world (India and CHina) all have enormous national debts.

wrong, because the USA still exports around $700 billion dollars worth of goods per year, not only manufactures but also raw materials and food.


Yeah a lot of food, weapons, and chemicals. Been to Walmart lately? Think you can buy an American blender, TV, clothes, plastic pail, tool?

Gosh I can't wait till they open an aerospace manufacturer, chemical refinery, or farm in my nieghborhood so I can get one of them there export jobs. :D

LMAO.

Seriously I nearly fell off my chair. I've got tears in my eyes.
What is your definition of a strong economy? Most people would identify strong consumerism, industry, and growth with economy. China has all these characteristics, and China's national debt is growing at a fast pace. This leads to the conclusion that debt, at manageable levels, has little to do with the soundness of the overall economy.

What is your definition of a strong economy? Most people would identify strong consumerism, industry, and growth with economy. China has all these characteristics, and China's national debt is growing at a fast pace. This leads to the conclusion that debt, at manageable levels, has little to do with the soundness of the overall economy.
Untill it collapses under the weight of the debt.

Untill it collapses under the weight of the debt.
That's why nation's shouldn't let their debt get to Japan's levels (160% of GDP). Right now Europe, the US, and most of the fast developing countries hold their debt to 50-80% which is sustainable indefinitely. Of course I am not condoning Bush's policies, and if he keeps up with his militarism then our debt may get out of hand.

Yeah a lot of food, weapons, and chemicals. Been to Walmart lately? Think you can buy an American blender, TV, clothes, plastic pail, tool?

Gosh I can't wait till they open an aerospace manufacturer, chemical refinery, or farm in my nieghborhood so I can get one of them there export jobs. :D
Your economic figures are based on your unfounded anecdotes at the Wal Mart. Just because you see a lot of CHinese trinkets sold in the US doesn't mean our export economy is dead, for example American heavy machinery (think Caterpillar earthmovers) are strong sellers in East Asia, and the US is the world's leading exporter of grain, corn, and one of the leading exporters of rice. These are things that you don't often hear about but make a significant contribution to our economy.

Except that a good bit of our GDP is debt generated.

A weak dollar means nothing because everything is manufactured off shore.

Even the Japanese Central Bank stopped financing us and the Chinese are now grumbling that they can't keep buying dollars for very long.

It's spelled recession and double digit inflation. See the early 1970s it sucked. You'll see the dollar voluntary devalued and hyper inflation within the next four years.

Have fun.
This is a recurring theme with you. You might want to take a look at this:

Consumer Price Index (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm)

Not much inflation there... though I admit it's just one month. 3.3 percent for the year, however - hardly double-digit inflation, and no signs yet.

What is your definition of a strong economy? Most people would identify strong consumerism, industry, and growth with economy. China has all these characteristics, and China's national debt is growing at a fast pace. This leads to the conclusion that debt, at manageable levels, has little to do with the soundness of the overall economy.


The only thing that's been driving this economy is cheap credit. Wave bye bye as cheap credit goes away. "Bye bye cheap credit! We'll mis you!"

Most of China's debt is directly related to long term development projects like massive hydroelectric dams like the Three rivers Project, building manufacturing plants and infrastructure. These are all high return investments, where as US debt is just a drag.

http://english.people.com.cn/200205/22/eng20020522_96170.shtml

The only thing that's been driving this economy is cheap credit. Wave bye bye as cheap credit goes away. "Bye bye cheap credit! We'll mis you!"
The only thing that drives any economy is cheap credit... China's interest rates are lower than the US, though several scandals and failures of Chinese banks due to overextended credit will mean cheap credit won't be as easy to come by there either.

Most of China's debt is directly related to long term development projects like massive hydroelectric dams like the Three rivers Project, building manufacturing plants and infrastructure. These are all high return investments, where as US debt is just a drag.

http://english.people.com.cn/200205/22/eng20020522_96170.shtml
Therefore proving my point that indebtedness has little to do with the soundess of the economy. So basically you should have nodded your head in agreement with me instead of falling out of your chair. Other than that I agree the US military spending is harmful to our society.

This is a recurring theme with you. You might want to take a look at this:

Consumer Price Index (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm)

Not much inflation there... though I admit it's just one month. 3.3 percent for the year, however - hardly double-digit inflation, and no signs yet.

Wait for it. We're about in the same position we were before the great fall of the early 70s. This is only the calm before the storm, your about to experience the inversion key getting pressed on the calculator of your life. Well unless you've got a lot of money you can toss in a foreign money market fund.

If however you're a Republican please don't listen to me. I have no idea what I'm talking about. Support your President by tossing everything you have in the market. Triple mortgage the house, use the kids college fund, you're going to make a killing!

The only thing that drives any economy is cheap credit... China's interest rates are lower than the US, though several scandals and failures of Chinese banks due to overextended credit will mean cheap credit won't be as easy to come by there either.


Therefore proving my point that indebtedness has little to do with the soundess of the economy. So basically you should have nodded your head in agreement with me instead of falling out of your chair. Other than that I agree the US military spending is harmful to our society.


Would you like fries with that indefensible point. :p

Wait for it. We're about in the same position we were before the great fall of the early 70s. This is only the calm before the storm, your about to experience the inversion key getting pressed on the calculator of your life. Well unless you've got a lot of money you can toss in a foreign money market fund.

If however you're a Republican please don't listen to me. I have no idea what I'm talking about. Support your President by tossing everything you have in the market. Triple mortgage the house, use the kids college fund, you're going to make a killing!
As I've said to you before, I'll be the first to "congratulate" you on your foresight if/when that happens. But I have yet to see any evidence of it - the economic indicators are not pointing towards your hypothesis.

Would you like fries with that indefensible point. :p
How is it indefensible? My original point was "national debt doesn't have much to do with the state of the economy" and you agree with me wholeheartedly, so your lame quips won't get you anywhere.

That's why nation's shouldn't let their debt get to Japan's levels (160% of GDP). Right now Europe, the US, and most of the fast developing countries hold their debt to 50-80% which is sustainable indefinitely. Of course I am not condoning Bush's policies, and if he keeps up with his militarism then our debt may get out of hand.

Hmm... Why do you say it is "holding"? Aren't we running decits of like 4 percent of GDP year after year? Doesn't that mean the debt it is getting worse and worse?

I can't imagine it will cause any short term ill effects, but the economists on the internets are always saying that the larger the debt gets, the higher the interest rates will get, thus decreasing long term growth.

I have no idea what will happen if we ever go to war with China since they and the Japanese are the ones footing the bill for this money pit. Hopefully that never happens.

Hmm... Why do you say it is "holding"? Aren't we running decits of like 4 percent of GDP year after year? Doesn't that mean the debt it is getting worse and worse?

I can't imagine it will cause any short term ill effects, but the economists on the internets are always saying that the larger the debt gets, the higher the interest rates will get, thus decreasing long term growth.

I have no idea what will happen if we ever go to war with China since they and the Japanese are the ones footing the bill for this money pit. Hopefully that never happens.
Well if the GDP also grows at a good pace, then the debt percentage of GDP can be held steady without actually paying the debt down. Increases in interest payments would then theoretically be paid for by increased tax revenues collected from the expanded GDP. Of course it is better to sustain debt through balanced budgets and paying old debt instead of relying on GDP growth which is not consistent and can suffer during recession. That is why I disagree with Bush's careless spending and militarism which could outstrip America's GDP growth.

As for war with China... that is highly unlikely because US and CHInese economies are intertwined and if we go to war then both our countries would probably collapse. Japan indeed controls about 30% of our debt but Japan itself has an enormous debt (160% of its GDP, which makes Japan the most indebted industrialized nation in the world). A lot of Japan's debt is controlled by Chinese and Americans, while a lot of China's debt is controlled by foreign banks too. So in a strange way, mutual indebtedness prevents war because the economic confusion that would ensue would be unmanageable.

The Howard government is good for something at least: balancing the budget, even though elections are spending sprees.

I'm a newbie when it comes to econs. Slowly learning it now in Uni..

Does debt really matter? As long as the increase of debt is not increasing at a crazy pace that inflations is nighmarish and is debt increases proportionately to the growth of the nations economy.