NationStates Jolt Archive

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. While you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?
</end venting>

P.S. Americans who don't like Bush *do* get to whine. I've no problem with that, but I reserve the right to whine right back.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Hell, you get *talk radio*. To top it off, you get to VOTE for who-freaking-ever you want. However, you definitely do not get to murder your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?

i dont recall ANYONE voting on international policy, but i bet if we ran a vote you wouldnt get 50% all gung ho on going around invading random nations

My advice to the people living in other countries (europe specifically) who feel the need to complain about bush (and there are blessedly few of you) is, unless his wrongdoing and classical evil has harmed you directly, know that you cannot change the minds of the sort of american who support him.

If anything light a candle for the millions of decent people stuck here and do not forget how genuinely fortunate you are to live in the civilized world.

Yeah - too right - I'm damn glad you sorted that Darfur problem :/

Why should we: Shut up already. This thread is begging for a response from us.

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. While you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?
</end venting>

P.S. Americans who don't like Bush *do* get to whine. I've no problem with that, but I reserve the right to make fun of them too.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Hell, you get *talk radio*. To top it off, you get to VOTE for who-freaking-ever you want. However, you definitely do not get to kill your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?

Somehow, I don't see this thread as being very helpful. [/SARCASM]

If the election of a certain president by the American people impedes upon the lives of foreigners, then said foreigners, or those who are concerned about said foreigners, have every right to bitch in spite of your narrow-minded worldview.

I respect your right to determine your own leaders, but I am allowed to disagree with them too.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Better than that, you get to vote. However, you definitely do not get to kill your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?

So how come it is okay for people to kill their fellow country men by lethal injection or the electric chair in the US?

Yeah - too right - I'm damn glad you sorted that Darfur problem :/

and the iraq problem, the drug problem, the Osama thing...

I have to somewhat agree, but then, maybe I should go to France and start whining about their president...
Heh, maybe I should go ask Kim Jong-Il why he is a horrible person...

Somehow, I don't see this thread as being very helpful. [/SARCASM]

Really? [/HEAVY SARCASM]

Why should we: Shut up already. This thread is begging for a response from us.


Whining about bush just puts salt into the wounds of decent americans and is ignored wholesale by the no-good ones.

Again:

If you have the good fortune to live in civilized europe or canada, enjoy your life and give us leave to suffer in peace.

I have to somewhat agree, but then, maybe I should go to France and start whining about their president...
Heh, maybe I should go ask Kim Jong-Il why he is a horrible person...

There are people in France doing that, and don't forget to stick to the tourist zones or they'll shoot you :p (N Korea that second bit obviously, not france.)

If you have the good fortune to live in civilized europe or canada, enjoy your life and give us leave to suffer in peace.
Kinda hard to just ignore it while the US is already planning for war in Iran.

Whining about bush just puts salt into the wounds of decent americans and is ignored wholesale by the no-good ones.

Again:

If you have the good fortune to live in civilized europe or canada, enjoy your life and give us leave to suffer in peace.

I don't live in europe or canada so I reserve my right to complain :p

Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about the US of A. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. And while you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?


Okay, all you damned Americans who love to complain about Canada and Europe, shove a sock in it. You don't get to control our foreign policy. We elect governments and parliaments, we actually like our civil rights, and most of us are in favour of a fairly intelligent international policy that doesn't go around bombing the crap out of Third World countries. One that actually deals with the underlying problems where they start, instead of the usual "Bomb and Pay" strategy (with the occasional "Forced Democracy" stuffed in there as well). You don't get to whine about it, you make all the problems. Feel free to whine about your own government, and leave others alone, instead of going on about how France is screwing you over. While you're over there forcing American democracy on people who'd rather much control themselves, you're sacrificing your own values and freedoms in order to combat the so-called "terrorist threat" that came about because of your own stupidity and ignorance of Islam. If you want to do something - stay home. You'll do more for the world by staying in the States than you could by going out and killing "towelheads". If you get to complain about our lack of a massive military budget, then we're more than welcome to complain about your lack of a massive education budget, so the next time something happens in the world, you know better than to go in all-out, guns blazing. If you ever want any support from any Western countries within the next 50 years, I suggest you shut up just about... now. Okay?


Don't piss and whine. It works both ways.

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. While you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?
</end venting>

P.S. Americans who don't like Bush *do* get to whine. I've no problem with that, but I reserve the right to whine right back.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Hell, you get *talk radio*. To top it off, you get to VOTE for who-freaking-ever you want. However, you definitely do not get to kill your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?
Thats all well and good, just so long as your prez is NEVER referred to as "the leader of the free world"...I sure as f*ck didn't get a vote on that one...;)

So how come it is okay for people to kill their fellow country men by lethal injection or the electric chair in the US?

Because the guys who get the chair killed people. Read that again "you do not get to kill your fellow countrymen or we will kill you". It actually applies in the US too.

Kinda hard to just ignore it while the US is already planning for war in Iran.

Not without a draft they're not (unless they bail on Iraq or somewhere else and force those troops into extending their stretch. Again.) and I have been informed by several americans that there is no way a draft is gonna happen. If it doesn't, I can't see a war on Iran in the near future (but if the Iraqi elections are actually representitive we might see Iraq getting cosy with Iran).

Not without a draft they're not (unless they bail on Iraq or somewhere else and force those troops into extending their stretch. Again.) and I have been informed by several americans that there is no way a draft is gonna happen. If it doesn't, I can't see a war on Iran in the near future (but if the Iraqi elections are actually representitive we might see Iraq getting cosy with Iran).
They don't have to leave Iraq. Since Iraq and Iran happen to be next door neighbours.

Because the guys who get the chair killed people. Read that again "you do not get to kill your fellow countrymen or we will kill you". It actually applies in the US too.
"An eye for an eye... and the world goes blind."

You can't police the world. You don't have the right, you don't have the authority, and as Iraq has certainly showed, you don't have the power.

One doesn't recall the United States stepping in immediately at the Rwandan Genocide. One doesn't recall the Americans intervening in Darfur. Hell, one doesn't see the Americans bombing China for executing political dissidents.

Stop wearing your ass for a hat and stop being such a damned hypocrite.

Because the guys who get the chair killed people. Read that again "you do not get to kill your fellow countrymen or we will kill you". It actually applies in the US too.

Yes, I followed the logic: why aren't those who have killed the killers also killed?

They don't have to leave Iraq. Since Iraq and Iran happen to be next door neighbours.
Chances are they couldn't take on Iran and Iraq without either implementing a draft or calling up every damned American serviceman/woman there is.

Yeah - too right - I'm damn glad you sorted that Darfur problem :/

Who has been preventing that from being declared a genocide by the UN? (because then UN member nations would legally have to take action) Who has been pushing to declare it a genocide, and threatening the government to force them to stop it?

You wanna get liberated, well, just take a freaking number and stand in line, we're busy.

Chances are they couldn't take on Iran and Iraq without either implementing a draft or calling up every damned American serviceman/woman there is.
Or simply resort to terror bombing.

Yes, I followed the logic: why aren't those who have killed the killers also killed?

My apologies, that should be "you don't get to murder your countryment or we will kill you". Not all killing is murder.

My apologies, that should be "you don't get to murder your countryment or we will kill you". Not all killing is murder.

OK, fair enough: but are you using the definiton of murder as applies in the US, or as applies in the country you have just invaded?

One doesn't recall the United States stepping in immediately at the Rwandan Genocide. One doesn't recall the Americans intervening in Darfur. Hell, one doesn't see the Americans bombing China for executing political dissidents.

The short version:
Rwanda - Clinton was a slimeball
Darfur - UN is blocking it
China - trade sanctions

And what the hell have you done about it?

Or simply resort to terror bombing.
That's true, God knows the US Air Force is capable of it.

The short version:
Rwanda - Clinton was a slimeball
Darfur - UN is blocking it
China - trade sanctions

And what the hell have you done about it?
Oh, yes, blame it on Clinton. He bombed Al Qaeda years before George Bush even heard of it. Seriously. He missed and hit some factories, but at least Ol' Bill tried. Bush's bombs and intelligence is none too accurate, either.

And blame this one on the U.N. The U.S. has shown it's disdain for the U.N. before in the pursuit of "right" - why not again?

And do you honestly think the United States could fight a war with China and not either A, suffer horrible casualties, B, lose South Korea, C, bye-bye Taiwan, and D, get nuked? Get real. You aren't invincible.

I'm not at issue. What's at issue is your statement that you should kill those who are killing their countrymen - no matter what. I said no such thing.

OK, fair enough: but are you using the definiton of murder as applies in the US, or as applies in the country you have just invaded?

I don't think there would be much doubt about the cases we're talking about. Like... "hmm, that guy's car *accidentally exploded*, I wonder if he meant to murder everyone nearby?"

Actually: the country we've invaded almost certainly doesn't have laws that were in any way written by the people. We can start with US laws until they get to make their own.

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. While you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?
</end venting>

P.S. Americans who don't like Bush *do* get to whine. I've no problem with that, but I reserve the right to whine right back.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Hell, you get *talk radio*. To top it off, you get to VOTE for who-freaking-ever you want. However, you definitely do not get to murder your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?
You do realize that the US has one of the world's highest murder rates?

Actually: the country we've invaded almost certainly doesn't have laws that were in any way written by the people.
Does the American populace vote on every law? Do they get a say in the day-to-day running of the country, besides the presidential election every four years and congressional election every two?

The answer is no. The American people are some of the most politically apathetic in the West - voter turnout rates are still rather abysmal, most especially for a country which rants on and on about "freedom" and "democracy". It is precisely this disengagement from politics that causes political apathy.

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. While you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?
</end venting>

P.S. Americans who don't like Bush *do* get to whine. I've no problem with that, but I reserve the right to whine right back.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Hell, you get *talk radio*. To top it off, you get to VOTE for who-freaking-ever you want. However, you definitely do not get to murder your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?

Ha, yeah, like people from other countries aren't going to discuss things that go on in the world because you want a monopoly on it. Close your mouth and stop talking.

I don't think there would be much doubt about the cases we're talking about. Like... "hmm, that guy's car *accidentally exploded*, I wonder if he meant to murder everyone nearby?"

Using this logic, then any other country would have been entirely justified to invade the US during the Civil War, yes?

The other problem here, is that the US can no longer use the excuse for going to war of 'there is a dictator there that makes his own laws and kills his people according to them': as long as internal due process is observed, then those killed according to those laws are not murdered


Actually: the country we've invaded almost certainly doesn't have laws that were in any way written by the people. We can start with US laws until they get to make their own.

So, in order to save the people from the tyranny of a set of laws which they had no hand in making, you are going to give them the tyranny of a set of laws which they had no hand in making?

You do realize that the US has one of the world's highest murder rates?

That is total bullshit and I'm calling you on it. Source?

Western Europe tends to have *slightly* lower murder rates than the US. The rest of the world has vastly higher murder rates.

Ha, yeah, like people from other countries aren't going to discuss things that go on in the world because you want a monopoly on it. Close your mouth and stop talking.

Wait, you have failed to see the reasoning behind the man's position: apparently it is entirely unjustified to comment about foreign affairs in a negative manner, but it is entirely justified to invade foreign countries because you don't like the way they are run...

The only problem with American neocons is that they are totally predictable, which means that they are led on with only a few suggestions, like a drunk in a bar. If you’re a mixer you can get them to fight anyone.

Mixer: "Hey buddy that guy doesn't like you, he says you’re a turd."

Drunk: "Well he did!" the drunk slurs as he hikes up his pants. "I'll show him!" The drunk stomps off to get turned into a grease spot by a rugby team.

The worst part of it is that you can't tell them they are behaving like prats, they just won't listen.

Using this logic, then any other country would have been entirely justified to invade the US during the Civil War, yes?

They probably would have been, assuming their goal was to end the conflict and reestablish a popular government.

The other problem here, is that the US can no longer use the excuse for going to war of 'there is a dictator there that makes his own laws and kills his people according to them': as long as internal due process is observed, then those killed according to those laws are not murdered

It's still murder, it doesn't matter what you call it. I think the bar for us to step in should be fairly high, say 0.1% of the population over a five-year period. Depending on the case that may be genocide as well, it usually is.

It's still murder, it doesn't matter what you call it. .

If you are so sure what constitutes murder (ie. wrongful killing), and distinguishes it from rightful killing, would you be so kind as to illuminate a poor fool like me?

I think the bar for us to step in should be fairly high, say 0.1% of the population over a five-year period. Depending on the case that may be genocide as well, it usually is.

So, if one person on the Pitcairn Islands was murdered in the last twenty years, then the US would be justified in invading?


EDIT: make that forty years, actually.

It's still murder, it doesn't matter what you call it. I think the bar for us to step in should be fairly high, say 0.1% of the population over a five-year period. Depending on the case that may be genocide as well, it usually is.
The current US murder rate (6.8 per 100,000 people, if CNN.com is to be trusted, and I believe it isn't - that's probably too low) over a 5 year period is roughly 1/3 of that. So does that mean crime in the United States is, in essence, a mini-genocide?

You're equating murder with genocide, in spite of everything. How is "it doesn't matter" addressing the issue?

You're just spouting the same old propaganda.

That is total bullshit and I'm calling you on it. Source?

Western Europe tends to have *slightly* lower murder rates than the US. The rest of the world has vastly higher murder rates.
You should do your own research before you yell bullshit?

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm#murd

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm

Also the US has the 2nd highest incarceration rate in the world?

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~fhg/stats.htm

That is total bullshit and I'm calling you on it. Source?

Western Europe tends to have *slightly* lower murder rates than the US. The rest of the world has vastly higher murder rates.

Some prefunctory research seems to indicate that the USA has some of the highest crime rates of any developed nation (northern/western/whatever you want to call it), but still significantly lower than much of the rest of the world. A few links:

Japan comparison:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=3231

(In 1998, USA is at 6.8 murders per 100,000, compared to 1.08 for Spain, 0.58 for Japan, and 18.07 for Russia)

New Zealand comparison:

http://www.justice.govt.nz/pubs/reports/2002/intl-comparisons-crime/section-5.html

(In 2000, USA is at 5.5, NZ is at 1.7)

England/Wales comparison

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/highs.html

(less dramatic difference, less user-friendly page: indicates that Englands crime rate is quite comparable, and has been closing with America's. However, the U.S.'s murder rate is still 5.7 times England's in 1996)

Unfortunately, the link to the Taiwanese international study quoted in the top link is broken, as it sounded like the sort of simple comparison we were looking for here. As always, though, statistics are troublesome beasts, and as noted in the NZ entry, exactly what defines a crime and how these things are counted do vary from nation to nation.

You should do your own research before you yell bullshit?

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm#murd

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm

Also the US has the 2nd highest incarceration rate in the world?

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~fhg/stats.htm

Dammit, beaten to it :) Ah well, more sources is always good.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm

"Belfast was the most dangerous UK city in the survey with a death rate of 4.4."

Now if that doesn't stir my sense of pride in my home city, then nothing will.

Wait just a second.
So... you're saying I am not alowed to complain about the actions of the US, when the US is activly running round the world doing things.
In a sense, even though the US is directly intefering with my country, and other countries of the world, I can not complain?
Because I'm a non-American, I can't complain about what the US does OUTSIDE of it's own borders?

As well, what gives the US the right to go around forcing it's beliefs on other people?
By your absurd logic that the US is a popular vote, wouldn't that mean the entire world would have to vote on every action the US takes outside of it's nation?
I didn't see Iraq getting to vote on wether or not it got invaded.


Oh, and;
That is total bullshit and I'm calling you on it. Source?

Western Europe tends to have *slightly* lower murder rates than the US. The rest of the world has vastly higher murder rates.

I've heard that the US has the highest murder rates in the world too, in fact, we studied it in my Global History class in High School.

And last time I checked, Canada had vastly lower murder rates then the US. Quite a feat for a nation with a higher gun-to-person percentage then the US, and where people don't lock their doors.
There have been 4 murders in my life in the area, that's 4 murders in an area encompasing all of the NorthEastern US States, in 19 years.
And two of the murders were Americans who came over from Maine.

Also the US has the 2nd highest incarceration rate in the world?
And one of the highest numbers of child prostitutes.

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. While you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?
</end venting>

P.S. Americans who don't like Bush *do* get to whine. I've no problem with that, but I reserve the right to whine right back.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Hell, you get *talk radio*. To top it off, you get to VOTE for who-freaking-ever you want. However, you definitely do not get to murder your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?


*yawn*

Whatever.

You should do your own research before you yell bullshit?

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm#murd


I've seen that chart. It conveniently omits the murder rate in most of the dangerous parts of the world. The rate is 10 to 20 per 100,000 in most of South and Central America, in Africa, in Russia and many of the former Russian republics. In some of those places it is >50. A lot of places do not keep records. The US has a rate of 4.6? So f*cking what.

And one of the highest numbers of child prostitutes.
It would be interesting if you could support your claim? However, it might not be inconceivable since the US has the highest child poverty levels amongst the 17 industrialized countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. While you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?
</end venting>

P.S. Americans who don't like Bush *do* get to whine. I've no problem with that, but I reserve the right to whine right back.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Hell, you get *talk radio*. To top it off, you get to VOTE for who-freaking-ever you want. However, you definitely do not get to murder your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?

What is the deal with using asterisks in place of quotation marks? I see it all the time and it baffles me. Do some keyboards no longer have a key for the quotation mark (don't get me started on using quotation marks when not even really quoting anyone)?

So f*cking what.

Question: why the '*'?

I've seen that chart. It conveniently omits the murder rate in most of the dangerous parts of the world. The rate is 10 to 20 per 100,000 in most of South and Central America, in Africa, in Russia and many of the former Russian republics. In some of those places it is >50. A lot of places do not keep records. The US has a rate of 4.6? So f*cking what.
Actually it is over 6 which is quite high. I didn't say the highest, I said amongst the highest, which is kind of shocking for such a highly developed country?

It would be interesting if you could support your claim? However, it might not be inconceivable since the US has the highest child poverty levels amongst the 17 industrialized countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2000/12/12/1415.html
The United Nations Organization quoted the USA as having no less than 300,000 child prostitutes.
Granted this is from 2000. But I imagine it did not improve much.

'Cause it's not like WE meddle in other countries' business... *cough cough* IRAQ! *cough*

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. <massive amounts of bull edited> You, Cassini, are the quintessential ugly American. The majority of us Americans are embarrassed by the poor logic, lack of compassion, and plain rudeness that you exhibit.

People, both at home and abroad, are angry and fearful of the demi-fascists in the White House at this time. Attempting to shut them up only reinforces the fear and anger.

I've seen that chart. It conveniently omits the murder rate in most of the dangerous parts of the world. The rate is 10 to 20 per 100,000 in most of South and Central America, in Africa, in Russia and many of the former Russian republics. In some of those places it is >50. A lot of places do not keep records. The US has a rate of 4.6? So f*cking what.

True, the rate in Columbia is 63, and South Africa is 51. According to UN stats the US actually sits in 24th place of the countries for which it received statistics.

That being said, when you claimed that the US was only slightly ahead of Europe you are stretching a point. In actual fact the US murder rate is about four times that of most of Western Europe who mostly have rates around 1.

So f*cking what?

I dunno, ask the families of some of those 4.6 people if they cared about their loved ones...

(less dramatic difference, less user-friendly page: indicates that Englands crime rate is quite comparable, and has been closing with America's. However, the U.S.'s murder rate is still 5.7 times England's in 1996)

Using the most recent data the US murder rate is 4.9 and UK 1.75 (Scotland has 2.5). This is not exactly the most earth-shattering difference considering that a few US cities are over 15 but most of the country is under 2.5.

...most of the country is under 2.5.Hell, comparatively speaking, most of the U.S. is freaking uninhabitated. There are large portions of the country that you can drive for hundreds of miles and not see any semblance of human civilization.

There are large portions of the country that you can drive for hundreds of miles and not see any semblance of human civilization.

...and it doesn't get any better when you leave the cities and hit the countryside.

...and it doesn't get any better when you leave the cities and hit the countryside.:D

Honestly, I was thinking of Kansas, but you are oh so correct. :)

You, Cassini, are the quintessential ugly American. The majority of us Americans are embarrassed by the poor logic, lack of compassion, and plain rudeness that you exhibit.

People, both at home and abroad, are angry and fearful of the demi-fascists in the White House at this time. Attempting to shut them up only reinforces the fear and anger.


Actually, juvenile rants like this telling me to shut up just make me laugh.

Someone from The Greatest Country in the World (tm), that beacon of freedom, complaining when people actually dare to exercise that very freedom that the US is supposed to stand for.


It's pretty funny.


And sad.


But mostly funny.

You, Cassini, are the quintessential ugly American. The majority of us Americans are embarrassed by the poor logic, lack of compassion, and plain rudeness that you exhibit.

I will take that as a compliment.

People, both at home and abroad, are angry and fearful of the demi-fascists in the White House at this time. Attempting to shut them up only reinforces the fear and anger.

Would that be the same people who wear keffiyahs to indicate their solidarity with those who want to destroy Western Civilization? The ones who are best friends with the Islamofascists which are trying to build a f*cking empire in the Middle East? Those people? Maybe they are "angry and fearful" of the wrong guys? If we lose, when their friends the jihadis come for them with exquisitely sharp knives (http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200411101620.asp), maybe they will wake up then? then again, maybe they won't.

It's one thing to be worried about "demi-fascists." It's another to insult practically everyone who voted for an American president, and say that the liberation of millions is a bad thing.

And what's really funny is my fellow Canadians judging other peoples viewpoints. I thought that wasn't allowed in Canada anymore. Oh, wait, that's only if you're against the NDP and the rest of the nutters in control. Nevermind, carry on with judgement.

I will take that as a compliment.



Would that be the same people who wear keffiyahs to indicate their solidarity with those who want to destroy Western Civilization? The ones who are best friends with the Islamofascists which are trying to build a f*cking empire in the Middle East? Those people? Maybe they are "angry and fearful" of the wrong guys? If we lose, when their friends the jihadis come for them with exquisitely sharp knives (http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200411101620.asp), maybe they will wake up then? then again, maybe they won't.
Yeah and the KKK used to murder blacks.....your point? Any religious extremism is dangerous?

So how come it is okay for people to kill their fellow country men by lethal injection or the electric chair in the US?

Who cares? Criminals are scum.

What is the deal with using asterisks in place of quotation marks? I see it all the time and it baffles me.

It's actually in place of bolding, not quotation marks.

I dunno, ask the families of some of those 4.6 people if they cared about their loved ones...

A majority of murder victims have previous felony convictions, and most have significant criminal records. That is also true of the murderers. The US has a surprising amount of violent crime *between* career criminals, but outside of the "criminal community" violent crime is very comparable to Europe if not lower.

Okay, all you damned Americans who love to complain about Canada and Europe, shove a sock in it. You don't get to control our foreign policy. We elect governments and parliaments, we actually like our civil rights, and most of us are in favour of a fairly intelligent international policy that doesn't go around bombing the crap out of Third World countries. One that actually deals with the underlying problems where they start, instead of the usual "Bomb and Pay" strategy (with the occasional "Forced Democracy" stuffed in there as well). You don't get to whine about it, you make all the problems. Feel free to whine about your own government, and leave others alone, instead of going on about how France is screwing you over. While you're over there forcing American democracy on people who'd rather much control themselves, you're sacrificing your own values and freedoms in order to combat the so-called "terrorist threat" that came about because of your own stupidity and ignorance of Islam. If you want to do something - stay home. You'll do more for the world by staying in the States than you could by going out and killing "towelheads". If you get to complain about our lack of a massive military budget, then we're more than welcome to complain about your lack of a massive education budget, so the next time something happens in the world, you know better than to go in all-out, guns blazing. If you ever want any support from any Western countries within the next 50 years, I suggest you shut up just about... now. Okay?


Don't piss and whine. It works both ways.

I don't complain. What the rest of the world does is its own business, not mine.

Who cares? Criminals are scum.

I care. Are you claiming that any American that breaks a law is scum?

I care. Are you claiming that any American that breaks a law is scum?

Depends on which law they break. A rapist, yes. A jaywalker, no.

A majority of murder victims have previous felony convictions, and most have significant criminal records. That is also true of the murderers. The US has a surprising amount of violent crime *between* career criminals, but outside of the "criminal community" violent crime is very comparable to Europe if not lower.

This like your earlier city/countryside division is based on the assumption that the same conditions do not hold true in Europe or elsewhere: if we were to remove the cities from the tally for the UK, for example, we would generate an even lower figure than the 1.75 we had earlier, we could then further apply the same inter-criminal murder reduction calculation that you suggested here, and have an even lower figure. I'm not claiming taht your methods are especially sound, or anything, but it would be nice if we were to apply them at least consistently.

Depends on which law they break. A rapist, yes. A jaywalker, no.

So despite claiming

Criminals are scum.

you are now saying "(not all) criminals are scum"?

Would that be the same people who wear keffiyahs to indicate their solidarity with those who want to destroy Western Civilization? The ones who are best friends with the Islamofascists which are trying to build a f*cking empire in the Middle East? Those people? Maybe they are "angry and fearful" of the wrong guys? If we lose, when their friends the jihadis come for them with exquisitely sharp knives (http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200411101620.asp), maybe they will wake up then? then again, maybe they won't.It would be the same people who have the sense to know there is no simple answer; who know that once again we are creating more terrorists than we are eliminating. The people who within a generation knew first hand the quagmire of war. It would be the same people that hear through the double-speak when Bush and Rice talk of "liberating people" and know that what is really being said is, 'we don't like you, do what we want, or we will invade your piss-ant country.'

So despite claiming



you are now saying "(not all) criminals are scum"?

Okay, let me rephrase it. All criminals who commit crimes serious enough to land them in jail are scum.

Actually, juvenile rants like this telling me to shut up just make me laugh.

Someone from The Greatest Country in the World (tm), that beacon of freedom, complaining when people actually dare to exercise that very freedom that the US is supposed to stand for.


It's pretty funny.


And sad.


But mostly funny.I s'pose you gots to find your funnies wheres ya can. :)

Someone from The Greatest Country in the World (tm), that beacon of freedom, complaining when people actually dare to exercise that very freedom that the US is supposed to stand for.

Well, I wouldn't force them to shut up (even if I could). I'm just exercising my own freedom to complain about them ;)

Seriously, I think a lot of the ugly-Americans talk coming from abroad is just over the top. When people brought up murder rates in this thread, that's a perfect example of what I mean... if it's not one thing wrong, it's another. Or look at almost any post by Von Witzleben. Even you, Zeppistan, I don't recall the last time you said anything good about the USA. Here's a test: list ten things you like abou the USA. No sarcasm please, I'm sure people can come up with some funny ones, but seriously, just try to list ten things you like that you really believe are true. If you can't, I would suggest that you've let hatred cloud your thinking to the point in which you're no longer interested in reality, you just *want* everything to be bad.

Well, I wouldn't force them to shut up (even if I could). I'm just exercising my own freedom to complain about them ;)

Seriously, I think a lot of the ugly-Americans talk coming from abroad is just over the top. When people brought up murder rates in this thread, that's a perfect example of what I mean... if it's not one thing wrong, it's another. Or look at almost any post by Von Witzleben. Even you, Zeppistan, I don't recall the last time you said anything good about the USA. Here's a test: list ten things you like abou the USA. No sarcasm please, I'm sure people can come up with some funny ones, but seriously, just try to list ten things you like that you really believe are true. If you can't, I would suggest that you've let hatred cloud your thinking to the point in which you're no longer interested in reality, you just *want* everything to be bad.

Actually I have seen the ugly american they talk about. Years ago I once did a bus tour through the UK. It was 1/2 American and 1/2 Australian. The Americans Bitched nonstop. "I can't belive this place! Back home..."

You have to wonder when I once asked to speak to a manager to compliment two workers that went above and beyond to help me. She was stunned.

I spent my time with the Australians! :) The bus broke down at one point! The Americans bitched and the Australians asked for the nearest pub! :)

One of the problems with the world is because a great deal of people who follow mass religion have no ability to put up with each other.

Iraq was formed when many years ago, several smaller countries were compacted into one bigger country. If we just went ahead and let the Sunni's have their own country, and the Shiites to have theirs, and the Kurds to have theirs. Divide the landmass by population. Then nobody would have to try and force them to get along with each other. Despite the fact that I hate racism, and religious intolerance... it has become clear to me that very few people agree with me. I have little hope that these problems will ever be resolved, so why don't we let them seperate themselves...

Of course we'll probably just end up with another Israel/Palestine fighting over a piece of land. So how about we wash our hands of it, and worry about our own countries?

Because we as human beings will just find other things to hate each other over... for instance Republicans/Democrats, or Jocks/Nerds, or fat people, or any other of the myriad of tiny differences which we as human beings can't seem to be able to reconcile.

Face it... the world is fucked.

This like your earlier city/countryside division is based on the assumption that the same conditions do not hold true in Europe or elsewhere: if we were to remove the cities from the tally for the UK, for example, we would generate an even lower figure than the 1.75 we had earlier, we could then further apply the same inter-criminal murder reduction calculation that you suggested here, and have an even lower figure. I'm not claiming taht your methods are especially sound, or anything, but it would be nice if we were to apply them at least consistently.

I have looked at that, actually. European cities have a slightly higher rate than the country average (e.g. London, 2.1). I don't think there is any city in Western Europe that has a rate over 8 or so, most big cities are around 4, certainly there is no city with a rate six times the national average (like DC or Chicago). However, not all large US cities have high numbers, some are about as safe overall as suburban/rural areas generally are. So I don't think it is anything about the US in general, it is something about *some* large cities in the US (hmm... could it be gangs?).

Also the inter-criminal murder reduction calculation, if you can find any data I would be interested, but I suspect it is also quite different in Europe, I'd guess most murderers would also have extensive records, but most victims would not.

Well, I wouldn't force them to shut up (even if I could). I'm just exercising my own freedom to complain about them ;)

Seriously, I think a lot of the ugly-Americans talk coming from abroad is just over the top. When people brought up murder rates in this thread, that's a perfect example of what I mean... if it's not one thing wrong, it's another. Or look at almost any post by Von Witzleben. Even you, Zeppistan, I don't recall the last time you said anything good about the USA. Here's a test: list ten things you like abou the USA. No sarcasm please, I'm sure people can come up with some funny ones, but seriously, just try to list ten things you like that you really believe are true. If you can't, I would suggest that you've let hatred cloud your thinking to the point in which you're no longer interested in reality, you just *want* everything to be bad.
Well it was I that brought up murder rates but it was in relation to your opening statements in this thread. People from outside the US get to criticize the US because they have "freedom" of speech, and yeah my father, his brothers and my grandfather fought in WW2 for that right. If I see the US policy as being a negative impact on the world, I get to complain. Invading Iraq was one of the worst actions the US has ever committed in my estimation.

Having said that, I have friends in the US and I have visited the US many times on holidays. It is a good country for the most part, but there sure are a few very dangerous politicians in power that are making the world far more dangerous than it needs to be. Terrorism has increased and a country has been devestated by the whim of a bad president. Too bad that you and the rest of the world can expect more of the same in the comin g months and years. :(

People from outside the US get to criticize the US because they have "freedom" of speech ... I have friends in the US and I have visited the US many times on holidays. It is a good country for the most part

All I'm saying is perhaps you should use your right to free speech to criticize those who *most* deserve criticism *first*? If you want to talk about high murder rates, why don't you start with Colombia or South Africa? One of those two would actually have the *highest* rate in the world, not the 40th-or-maybe-50th highest.

but there sure are a few very dangerous politicians in power that are making the world far more dangerous than it needs to be.

In the case of dangerous politicians start with, I dunno, North Korea? China? Iran?

Terrorism has increased and a country has been devestated by the whim of a bad president.

And the terrorists have absolutely nothing to do with devastating that country, right?

This idea that terrorism has increased as a result of our actions comes from a complete lack of understanding of who the terrorists are and how they come about.

Item: The terrorists which carry out attacks in western countries come, to a good approximation, from just a few extended families which have intermarried extensively. Think of them as *one clan*, and not a very large one. That's it. Most of these people are socially upper-middle or upper class, western-educated, and they have had zero first-hand experience with any negative effects of US foreign policy. They really do attack us because of who we are and what we stand for, not because of what we do.

Item: The terrorists which operate in Iraq *are the former government*. Again, a relatively small number of clans/families. They used to kill people before when they were in power. They kill people now. Not much has changed, not even which ethnic groups they prefer to kill. The *only* difference is that now someone is fighting back.

Item: Based on the above, more terrorists are *not* created from an agressive US foreign policy because the pool from which they could be created is already 100% recruited.

Thats all well and good, just so long as your prez is NEVER referred to as "the leader of the free world"...I sure as f*ck didn't get a vote on that one...;)


Feel free to call your leader whatever you want.

How about "Leader of the Federated Planets" or some such.

You can't police the world. You don't have the right, you don't have the authority, and as Iraq has certainly showed, you don't have the power.



1) The only "right" as far as international politics goes is a)can a country do a thing and b) can the country get away with it after its done.

Since there havent been any significant repercussion against the US from the "world body", I would have to say that the US does have the "right" to police the world.

Or simply resort to terror bombing.

Its called shock and awe.

I think I have a right to complain seeing as the Australian Prime Minister (good old Johnny Howard) has got his head so far up your President's arse, we may as well be the 52nd state of America. Yes coalition of the willing indeed. 70% of us don't agree with the Iraq war and yet somehow we got dragged into it. Same way we got dragged into it in Korea and Vietnam. You guys are the biggest superpower in the world and you are being run by a gun ho simpleton. That scares me. It's scares plenty of other people too therefore we do have a right to complain. I think the Iraqi' have a right to complain after the 15365 (minimum) deaths that are a result of your interferance. You have a right to interfere in other people's business, therefore we hold a right to complain, and to tell you to keep your big noses out of it.

Well, I wouldn't force them to shut up (even if I could). I'm just exercising my own freedom to complain about them ;)

Seriously, I think a lot of the ugly-Americans talk coming from abroad is just over the top. When people brought up murder rates in this thread, that's a perfect example of what I mean... if it's not one thing wrong, it's another.
*snip*
Here's a test: list ten things you like abou the USA. No sarcasm please, I'm sure people can come up with some funny ones, but seriously, just try to list ten things you like that you really believe are true. If you can't, I would suggest that you've let hatred cloud your thinking to the point in which you're no longer interested in reality, you just *want* everything to be bad.

The problem is exactly what you are saying Cassini. We should be able to list ten things we like about a country as big and influential as the USA. However we can not, as there does not exist ten things we like about the country.

I could list ten geographical features: The Grand Canyon, The geysers in Yellowstone etc. but these are accidents of nature, and not American except that they happen to be within the borders of the USA.

What is there to like? Freedom of speech, OK, but this thread started with someone trying to kill that.

The imposition of one sided trade barriers. Not very nice (The USA does this while complaining very loudly whenever it is done to it.)

The attitude that "we know how to run your lives better than you do", great fun.

Democracy. Personally I have huge reservations about representative democracy (I sense a new thread here) and it is no more american than smorgasbord. You have it yes, but so does most of Europe and South America, as well as large parts of Australasia and Africa.

The people. Like everywhere else, the people are a mixed bunch, some good, some bad, some crazy. There is nothing special about the people anywhere in the world.

The economy. *laughs* sorry, the unbridled belief that the US economy drives the worlds economy is one of the most irritating things about the arrogant Americans (This means those Americans who are arrogant, not that all Americans are arrogant). The US economy is pretty much on its last legs. Too much debt.

I would like to be able to like America, I am the sort of person who much prefers to see the good side of things to harking on about the bad side, however it is difficult to find the good side of the USA. Yes, you have an admirable constitution, which your poiticians consistently ignore. You have produced some admirable individuals, but anywhere with a population of close to 300 million will produce / have produced, some geniuses.

You say list ten good things, I challenge you to do so. I would like though that these things be American in the sense that they derive from the culture there. i.e. natural features, and individual geniuses do not count.

Actually I have seen the ugly american they talk about. Years ago I once did a bus tour through the UK. It was 1/2 American and 1/2 Australian. The Americans Bitched nonstop. "I can't belive this place! Back home..."

You have to wonder when I once asked to speak to a manager to compliment two workers that went above and beyond to help me. She was stunned.

I spent my time with the Australians! :) The bus broke down at one point! The Americans bitched and the Australians asked for the nearest pub! :)
Well, you seem to have encountered Tourista Idiotus, or the Stupid Tourist. Basicaly theyre using rental brains imported from Burma.
I used to have to deal with them every summer in Cannon Beach (Tourist town), but generaly people in the US dont complain that much.
Mostly I think a normal US citizen would wait five minutes and then look for a taxi or another tourbus. I went on a tour in the UK, the only compaint I heard was that we couldnt drink alchahol like we could in France.
Damn you British and your age laws! DAMN YOU!

Oh, and a kid climbed out onto the roof of our hotel, but he was an ass whos parents made(!!!!) him come, nobody liked him and he was an attention freak.

Basicaly, dont judge a country by its tourists.

Its called shock and awe.
Ah thanks. I didn't knew they renamed it.

The reason that forigeners have a right to complain about Bush, and America in general is quite simple. America has a far too great impact on a world that can do nothing to control this impact because you have soveringty, but you are not prepared to respect anyone else's soverignity.

The reason that forigeners have a right to complain about Bush, and America in general is quite simple. America has a far too great impact on a world that can do nothing to control this impact because you have soveringty, but you are not prepared to respect anyone else's soverignity.
Oh sure they are. As long as it serves their purpose. Like with this guy. Once he had outlived his usefullness to his American friends he was attacked.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/Reaper2k3/authoritah.jpg

Wow you folks have spewed a ton of sh*t on this thread. Unfortunately I have to agree w/ about half of it. Bush is a self righteous religious zelot that does not give two shits about the average person, just his own agenda, bank accounts and his cowboy image

i dont recall ANYONE voting on international policy, but i bet if we ran a vote you wouldnt get 50% all gung ho on going around invading random nations

Sure we did. According to Bush, anyone and everyone who considered voting for him agrees with all of his stances, including every single stance on foreign policy. In fact, even though he was only elected by something like 52-53% of the vote, not even a statistical significant difference, he's claiming and absolute mandate!

They [The terrorists] really do attack us because of who we are and what we stand for, not because of what we do.


So it has nothing to do with the things that the Al Quida and other anti-american terror cells says.. the fact that you left the middle east, afganistan and Iran-Iraq as you left those exile-cubas back in the 60's...

Fast-forward-history.. When Sovjet was spreading south toward the arabic nations the US started to help them, i.e the stinger missiles we heard so much about after 9-11, but also many deals were made to support the groups that fought off Sovjet.. When Sovjet dicided to go home, the US did the same.. leaving the people that had fought for them behind.. (so much for the "no-one left behind"-army)
If you had listend to what the translater on CNN, FOX or NBC said that Osama was saying after 9-11 you would have heard him say just this..

So all in all.. the DO hate America for what America does! :)

Trust me.. I would like to see Osama be captured as much as you do.. I did not think that 9-11 was anyting good.. the reason why I can think less of america is the fact that your goverment has started a fire in the middle east and we are geting the sparkles all over us..
After 9-11, you could have asked for help and the whole Europe would have gone to war with you.. But you didn't..

i think that if America stopped interfering in the rest of the world then you might be justified in telling the rest of the world to stop complaining about them

you cant have it one way

I don't really care about who America elects. I know that Bush is going to go ahead with whatever foreign policy he wants and there's nothing I can do about it. So what's the point in worrying?

:headbang: this little icon hoozie here says it all.

i think that if America stopped interfering in the rest of the world then you might be justified in telling the rest of the world to stop complaining about them

you cant have it one way

It would not matter in the slightest what America did, or did not, do.

If we didn't interfere in the favor of <fill in name of country or group> then the US would be accused of failing to act.

If we intervene on anyone's behalf, for any reason, even humanitarian aid, someone gets suspicious. Even the Indonesian government, whom we have kept under an arms embargo for quite a while, suspects that we may be interested in helping the Aceh rebels. And the Aceh rebels suspect that we may be helping the Indonesian government, whom we helped long ago.

So, if we give the aid, the Indonesian government WILL say we're aiding rebels, even if we're just handing out boxes of food.

If we don't give the aid, Europeans will say that the US is stingy.

So, it would be in the best interest of the US to follow the dictates of realpolitik, and do what it sees will be best in its own self interest - because everyone and their brother is going to tell the US that it's doing the wrong thing.

You can't please everyone, so you should please yourself.

George Bush is trying to get Turkey into the EU. He has no "right" to be doing that

The US overthrew a few democratically elected governments in South America. You invade Afghanistan, Iraq and threaten Iran and North Korea.

While you interfere in other countries, you can expect other countries to complain about you, and its hypocritical to tell them not to

All I'm saying is perhaps you should use your right to free speech to criticize those who *most* deserve criticism *first*? If you want to talk about high murder rates, why don't you start with Colombia or South Africa? One of those two would actually have the *highest* rate in the world, not the 40th-or-maybe-50th highest.
Well you are the one who brought up murder in the first post of this thread:

"However, you definitely do not get to murder your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you."

Why should I start with Columbia or South Africa, when the US arguably has the highest murder rate amongst the OECD?

In the case of dangerous politicians start with, I dunno, North Korea? China? Iran?
They may have dangerous politicians but they are not running around invading sovereign nations like the US has done in Iraq.

And the terrorists have absolutely nothing to do with devastating that country, right?
Perhaps you are confusing insurgents (Iraqis who are bearing arms to rid their country of US troops) with the handful of terrorists who have entered Iraq to assist their cause?

This idea that terrorism has increased as a result of our actions comes from a complete lack of understanding of who the terrorists are and how they come about.
Terrorism has increased since the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. If anyone is confused about the whereabouts of terrorists it is more than likely your President who sent troops into Iraq erroneously looking for Al Queda?


Item: The terrorists which carry out attacks in western countries come, to a good approximation, from just a few extended families which have intermarried extensively.
Where do you get this information?


Think of them as *one clan*, and not a very large one. That's it. Most of these people are socially upper-middle or upper class, western-educated, and they have had zero first-hand experience with any negative effects of US foreign policy.
"Zero first hand experience with any negative effects of US foreign policy"? Please do elaborate and qualify you comment.

They really do attack us because of who we are and what we stand for, not because of what we do.
I disagree. If you don't think there are any negative affects to US foreign policy in the Middle East due to interventionism, then perhaps you need to do some serious reading? Start with Lebanon, and don't forget most of the other middle east countries.

Item: The terrorists which operate in Iraq *are the former government*.The former government is mostly locked up in jail? Try again?
Again, a relatively small number of clans/families. They used to kill people before when they were in power. They kill people now. Not much has changed, not even which ethnic groups they prefer to kill. The *only* difference is that now someone is fighting back.
Perhaps you might not have noticed but the Iraqi Government's last real action against her people was at the end of the Gulf War when some Shiites (at the urging of the US Government BTW) rose up against Saddam Hussein and were quickly put down when the US didn't send in any trrops to support their cause. BTW that was about 12 years ago.

Item: Based on the above, more terrorists are *not* created from an agressive US foreign policy because the pool from which they could be created is already 100% recruited.The terrorist pool has not been 100% recruited and it appears that more people are joining the Terrorist cause due to the US invasion of Iraq.

All in all, it appears the war on terrorism is not very successful to this point? BTW, where did you say Bin Laden was?

After 9-11, you could have asked for help and the whole Europe would have gone to war with you.. But you didn't..

That is one thing that showed we have an idiot in the white house. He was given a political goldmine. Or if you will "a mandate" from the world.

He wasted it all on Iraq "He tried to kill my daddy!" :rolleyes:

<start venting>
Okay, y'all foreigners who love to complain about Bush, USA foreign policy, etc, etc. SHUT. UP. ALREADY. You don't get to vote in our elections. We elected a president, and Congress, and we volunteered to be in the Army, and we are (most of us) in favor of a fairly agressive international policy that actually *deals with problems* that would bite your ass too if we didn't do something. You don't get to whine about it, if you don't pitch in. Feel free to whine about the government of any country which was *not elected* instead. While you're at it, we'll probably go over there and change it to a more decent government. If you want to do more, get a real f*cking army of your own so the next time something like Darfur happens *you* can go it alone. Okay?
</end venting>

P.S. Americans who don't like Bush *do* get to whine. I've no problem with that, but I reserve the right to whine right back.

P.S. If we invaded your country, you do get to whine as well. Hell, you get *talk radio*. To top it off, you get to VOTE for who-freaking-ever you want. However, you definitely do not get to murder your fellow countrymen, for any reason, or we *will* kill you. Clear?

You sure have enlightened me.

To me America is like a pit of rage infested rats (Well okay people like the dick who make this board atleast), you all sit there killing each other for one reason or another, and unfortunatly, every now and then you get a big stupid rat that climbs its way out and pisses everyone else off and then you say "HEY DON'T BLAME US". I can't wait til Bush bombs a state for voting liberal. It's just enjoyable to watch this big, oogy boogy, powerful nation come crumbling down because of stupidity. All the love to intelligent Americans but people who make these boards just are stupid. Hey here's an idea, all the Americans complaining about foreigners complaing are actually complaining foreigners to me, so you shut up and will all be happy!

..unless his wrongdoing and classical evil has harmed you directly, know that you cannot change the minds of the sort of american who support him.We dont wanna change your mind, we dont care about you(Bushies), you are ******s , and you deserve whatever bad thing may happen to you.

Question: Are we going to stop speaking up against the Chimp?
Answer: No! ...get over it.

To me America is like a pit of rage infested rats (Well okay people like the dick who make this board atleast),

Max Barry != American.

Max Barry = Australian.

Max Barry != American.

Max Barry = Australian.
he meant the "people like the dick who make this thread", (not Board)

he meant the "people like the dick who make this thread", (not Board)

The perils of bad punctuation: is the word 'okay' to be seen as a concession, as in "(Well okay, people like the dick who make this board at least)" or as an adjective attached to the word people?

You are most probably correct, though.

The economy. *laughs* sorry, the unbridled belief that the US economy drives the worlds economy is one of the most irritating things about the arrogant Americans (This means those Americans who are arrogant, not that all Americans are arrogant). The US economy is pretty much on its last legs. Too much debt.


The debt doesn't matter that much if they are intending never to pay it. Like the 1 billion debt that they owe the UN (since they refuse to pay their dues), out of which they occasionally pay back a little bit IF the UN concedes to some demand they happen to have. In this way the US is transforming an economical disadvantage into the power to blackmail. ;)

America is just another capitalist state, competing and trading with all the others. Like all capitalist states America acts in it's own self-interest. Sometimes this self interest coincides with other capitalist states, sometimes not.

Al Quaeda terrorists espouse militant Islam as the way to live. This threatens capitalism and hence overwhelming support for the war on terrorism.

Iraq under Saddam was a small capitalist society with no fondness for militant Islam. America invaded for American specific reasons - oil, prevent Iraqi crude trading in euro, support Israel, protect Saudi Arabia & Kuwait, demonstrate military firepower, whatever. Other capitalist countries because their self-interest did not coincide with America's.


Please note that though one group of capitalist countries may talk about "freedom & democracy" and the other about "peace & stability" this is just talk, almost all actions of capitalist countries are based on aquiring wealth.