NationStates Jolt Archive

If he thinks I shouldn't own a gun for protection, neither should he, whether it's carried by him or a bodyguard. And I know that if I was that stupid at the airport, they would put a rubber glove so far up my ass I'd be tasting rubber.

NEW YORK — Filmmaker Michael Moore's (search) bodyguard was arrested for carrying an unlicensed weapon in New York's JFK airport Wednesday night.

Police took Patrick Burke, who says Moore employs him, into custody after he declared he was carrying a firearm at a ticket counter. Burke is licensed to carry a firearm in Florida and California, but not in New York. Burke was taken to Queens central booking and could potentially be charged with a felony for the incident.

Moore's 2003 Oscar-winning film "Bowling for Columbine" criticizes what Moore calls America's "culture of fear" and its obsession with guns.

Micheal Moore's agenda after the inauguration:

13:00pm - wake up
14:00pm - breakfast ( McDonalds, KFC, Jack-in-the-Box, Burger King)
14:30pm - dessert (9 buckets of Ben & Jerry's and 10 applepies)
15:00pm - lunch (20 tacos, 5 baskets of nachos, grilled chicken and 2 gallons of coke)
18:00pm - dinner (see breakfast, dessert and lunch)
20:00pm - bash Bush & co
21:00pm - bedtime

Is he not just exercising his American right to be hypocritical?

Nice to see that like every good liberal he makes sure all the guns carried by his bodyguards are properly licenced and everything.

thats gotta be embarrassing for him...

i can see why he'd want bodyguards despite all he's said but he could have at least got them registered properly:/

Is he not just exercising his American right to be hypocritical?

No, apparently you're not allowed to be a hypocrite here. Everyone is constantly accusing us of being hypocrites, so it's not allowed. Otherwise, everyone would STFU.

No, apparently you're not allowed to be a hypocrite here. Everyone is constantly accusing us of being hypocrites, so it's not allowed. Otherwise, everyone would STFU.

Is Michael Moore here? Where? Whats his nick. I want to flame him!

No, seriously, being hypocritical in a discussion forum is likely to draw serious flack, being hypocritical when you are making money out of criticising others for making money, is just to be expected. ;)

I meant "here" in the US. Clinton, Bush, Kerry, and any other American, including me, is not allowed to be a hypocrite.

A European may, of course. A French President may marry a woman, and swear an oath to be faithful, and then run out and get a mistress. No one, including the wife and mistress, will have a problem with this, as the hypocritical situation of making a promise of faithfulness is required to be broken immediately and permanently as a matter of tradition.

Even when Mitterand died, both women, who were good friends, attended the funeral together.

But if an American makes a promise, or even says something, a European will hold him to it.

Bush supporters: Enough about Moore already. You are harping on and on about a non-entity in politics. You complain about Bush bashers who only focus on Bush - but Bush, you see, is actually the President of the USA. You on the other hand, are choosing to focus on some fat filmmaker, as if that's somehow more politically adroit OR appropriate.

It's almost like you offer them as balance to the Bush bashing -

"Bush is a dictator!"

"Oh yeah, well Moore is fat!"

"..."

I'm not a Bush fanatic, I just like making fun of MM's eating habits

This doesn't make Moore look like a hypocite at all. He never once said he thought all guns should be banned in "Bowling for Columbine." He posed a lot of leading questions and senerios but he never stated it himself.

Moore is devisive sure, but he's not hypocritical about it.

I meant "here" in the US. Clinton, Bush, Kerry, and any other American, including me, is not allowed to be a hypocrite.

A European may, of course. A French President may marry a woman, and swear an oath to be faithful, and then run out and get a mistress. No one, including the wife and mistress, will have a problem with this, as the hypocritical situation of making a promise of faithfulness is required to be broken immediately and permanently as a matter of tradition.

Even when Mitterand died, both women, who were good friends, attended the funeral together.

But if an American makes a promise, or even says something, a European will hold him to it.

A lot depends on the accepted norms. In France, having a mistress for men in positions of power has been acceptable for a very long time. In the USA it has been acceptable to say that dirty industries are acceptable, so long as they are not in your neighbourhood. etc. Here in Brazil, it is normal to be a Catholic and have sex, using condoms, before marriage. All of these a hypocrisy in the eyes of other cultures, but not in their own.

A European will understand a promise in the light of his own culture, where some promises are real and others are just for show. The same applies to an American. This is why you find Mitterand hypocritical, when the French people do not, and this is why the French find the US discourse on terrorism, for example, hypocritical, when the Americans don't. :)

I'm not a Bush fanatic, I just like making fun of MM's eating habits

Shooting fish in a barrel. :p

Bush supporters: Enough about Moore already. You are harping on and on about a non-entity in politics. You complain about Bush bashers who only focus on Bush - but Bush, you see, is actually the President of the USA. You on the other hand, are choosing to focus on some fat filmmaker, as if that's somehow more politically adroit OR appropriate.

It's almost like you offer them as balance to the Bush bashing -

"Bush is a dictator!"

"Oh yeah, well Moore is fat!"

"..."

I am not a supporter of Bush, but Moore IS a political entity. When you make "documenatries" that aren't, but are believed as such, you can affect the political landscape, with the particular choices of topics Moore has used.

I despise Moore for his lies (sorry, editing), just like I despise Bush for his fake reasons for going into Iraq.

How's that? Bush and Moore bashing all rolled into one! :eek:

How's that? Bush and Moore bashing all rolled into one! :eek:

A man after my own heart.

Micheal Moore's agenda after the inauguration:

13:00pm - wake up
14:00pm - breakfast ( McDonalds, KFC, Jack-in-the-Box, Burger King)
14:30pm - dessert (9 buckets of Ben & Jerry's and 10 applepies)
15:00pm - lunch (20 tacos, 5 baskets of nachos, grilled chicken and 2 gallons of coke)
18:00pm - dinner (see breakfast, dessert and lunch)
20:00pm - bash Bush & co
21:00pm - bedtime

Mr. Moore is in Washington, DC this week. There are no Jack in the Boxes on the East Coast. :D

Please substitute Dennys or Silver Diner.

If for no other reason I like Michael Moore because he pisses off the right as much as Rush Limbaugh has been pissing off the left for years.

Bush supporters: Enough about Moore already. You are harping on and on about a non-entity in politics. You complain about Bush bashers who only focus on Bush - but Bush, you see, is actually the President of the USA. You on the other hand, are choosing to focus on some fat filmmaker, as if that's somehow more politically adroit OR appropriate.

It's almost like you offer them as balance to the Bush bashing -

"Bush is a dictator!"

"Oh yeah, well Moore is fat!"

"..."

If the Democrats could provide a political target, Bush supporters wouldn't have to look to Moore.

Right now, Moore is not only better known, but probably more electable than the majority of Democratic 2008 hopefuls. :(

If for no other reason I like Michael Moore because he pisses off the right as much as Rush Limbaugh has been pissing off the left for years.

True. Al Franken just doesn't cut the mustard somehow.

John you have some sick fantasies.

Sheesh...are we bashing Michael Moore again? Isn't this a little obsessive? Or are you secretly working for his PR agency? I mean, no attention is bad attention to a celebrity, right?

If for no other reason I like Michael Moore because he pisses off the right as much as Rush Limbaugh has been pissing off the left for years.

You would have to be a complete idiot to think that either Michael or Rush are credible at any level other than bad comedy.

True. Al Franken just doesn't cut the mustard somehow.

Perhaps it's because back in high school Al was one of those guys you used to straight-arm right into the floor in the hallway on the way to class.

You would have to be a complete idiot to think that either Michael or Rush are credible at any level other than bad comedy.


Then why focus on him so heavily? The left surely isn't talking about him.
Bring up someone whos opinions matter. You dont need to convince the left of Moores faults.

Perhaps it's because back in high school Al was one of those guys you used to straight-arm right into the floor in the hallway on the way to class.


oh so you are one of those.
*shudder*

Perhaps it's because back in high school Al was one of those guys you used to straight-arm right into the floor in the hallway on the way to class. You used to do that to people? I'm developing a poor image of you in my mind.... :(
Sorry to bust in John...I was hoping you could answer: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7990557&postcount=19

Perhaps it's because back in high school Al was one of those guys you used to straight-arm right into the floor in the hallway on the way to class.

Yeah, you wouldnt want to do that to MM, you might never see your arm again.

*aside to sinuhue*
no I am not following you around, honestly.

If he thinks I shouldn't own a gun for protection, neither should he, whether it's carried by him or a bodyguard. And I know that if I was that stupid at the airport, they would put a rubber glove so far up my ass I'd be tasting rubber.

NEW YORK — Filmmaker Michael Moore's (search) bodyguard was arrested for carrying an unlicensed weapon in New York's JFK airport Wednesday night.

Police took Patrick Burke, who says Moore employs him, into custody after he declared he was carrying a firearm at a ticket counter. Burke is licensed to carry a firearm in Florida and California, but not in New York. Burke was taken to Queens central booking and could potentially be charged with a felony for the incident.

Moore's 2003 Oscar-winning film "Bowling for Columbine" criticizes what Moore calls America's "culture of fear" and its obsession with guns.
ROFLMAO! Out-fffing STANDING! Oh God, this is priceless! LOL!

Perhaps it's because back in high school Al was one of those guys you used to straight-arm right into the floor in the hallway on the way to class.

Actually, I suspect it's that when I see him on TV, most of the time he's wearing too much lipstick. Yes, really.

Then why focus on him so heavily? The left surely isn't talking about him.
Bring up someone whos opinions matter. You dont need to convince the left of Moores faults.

I just found it funny. The same people who are against gun ownership (and anyone who made Bowling for Columbine is someone who is defnitely out to oppose and ridicule gun ownership) are the same people who believe you have no right to protect yourself other than by calling the police.

If Moore is attacked by someone who doesn't like him, he should call the police and wait.

Then why focus on him so heavily? The left surely isn't talking about him.
Bring up someone whos opinions matter. You dont need to convince the left of Moores faults.

Name me a Democrat that matters today. :(

Are conservatives still bitching about Moore? Better yet, are they still using those lame-ass, infantile "fat" jokes?

I'm no fan of Moore, but shit, can you be anymore juvenile? I feel like I'm on a schoolyard here.

Are conservatives still bitching about Moore? Better yet, are they still using those lame-ass, infantile "fat" jokes?

I'm no fan of Moore, but shit, can you be anymore juvenile? I feel like I'm on a schoolyard here.

As opposed to the Bush = monkey one? ;)

Are conservatives still bitching about Moore? Better yet, are they still using those lame-ass, infantile "fat" jokes?

I'm no fan of Moore, but shit, can you be anymore juvenile? I feel like I'm on a schoolyard here.

I suggest that you contact Chess Squares for an up to date list of infantile joke names for Bush, or any other Republican, or any other person who posts anything on this forum with which he disagrees and doesn't want to waste time discussing.

I just found it funny. The same people who are against gun ownership (and anyone who made Bowling for Columbine is someone who is defnitely out to oppose and ridicule gun ownership) are the same people who believe you have no right to protect yourself other than by calling the police.

If Moore is attacked by someone who doesn't like him, he should call the police and wait.

I find it pretty funny too.

Name me a Democrat that matters today. :(

If you don't know then sadly it doesn't matter who I name as you would never agree.

There are plenty of Democrats, Republicans, Greens and so on who matter.

I think people matter if they have political clout. I wouldnt say that Moore has that.

If you don't know then sadly it doesn't matter who I name as you would never agree.

There are plenty of Democrats, Republicans, Greens and so on who matter.

I think people matter if they have political clout. I wouldnt say that Moore has that.

Well, anyone who plans on winning the Senate, House, and the Presidency back has to:

a) never mention (or have a voting record of) opposition to gun rights
b) never mention (or have a voting record of) support for gay rights
c) never mention (or have a voting record of) opposition to prayer in school

or, better yet, be for gun rights, against gay rights, and support prayer in school (even if you don't pass anything and just let things ride they way they are now).

I know they are Karl Rove-inspired hot-button issues - but you'll need to carry some of these voters - in fact, a good number of these voters - along with your Democratic base, which appears to have shrunk to isolated urban islands within blue states.

Go ahead. Name a prominent Democrat who has clout within the Democratic Party who could answer a, b, and c with a positive Yes! That's Me!

I meant "here" in the US. Clinton, Bush, Kerry, and any other American, including me, is not allowed to be a hypocrite.

A European may, of course. A French President may marry a woman, and swear an oath to be faithful, and then run out and get a mistress. No one, including the wife and mistress, will have a problem with this, as the hypocritical situation of making a promise of faithfulness is required to be broken immediately and permanently as a matter of tradition.

Even when Mitterand died, both women, who were good friends, attended the funeral together.

But if an American makes a promise, or even says something, a European will hold him to it.

You're just jealous. Europeans are charming, witty and intelligent enough to persuade people that having a wife and mistress isn't hypocritical- it's a way of life. A European always says- a womans best friend is her husbands mistress.

The reason Europeans hold Americans to their promises isn't because we dislike hypocrisy, it's because we dislike Americans.

The reason Europeans hold Americans to their promises isn't because we dislike hypocrisy, it's because we dislike Americans.

No, it's because you want Americans trained to do what they promise to do.

So when some European calls for another rescue, the Americans will actually show up for more abuse.

Some European will say, yes, I know this is the third time, but the NATO treaty specifically says "unless the US wants to be considered a nation of hypocrites, it shall rescue the Europeans from their halfwit peccadillos on demand..."

Michael Moore, in an airport, with a gun.
You morons, isn't it obvious that he was trying to test out security.. the guy isn't a dumbass no matter what you think, he knows if he walks into an airport with a gun, something'll happen, and he obviously wanted something to happen

If you don't know then sadly it doesn't matter who I name as you would never agree.

There are plenty of Democrats, Republicans, Greens and so on who matter.

I think people matter if they have political clout. I wouldnt say that Moore has that.

Excuse me, o holier-than-thou, but I was asking a pertinent question. Can you NAME just ONE Democratic politician that matters today?

Also, did you note my :( in the post? :p

Michael Moore, in an airport, with a gun.
You morons, isn't it obvious that he was trying to test out security.. the guy isn't a dumbass no matter what you think, he knows if he walks into an airport with a gun, something'll happen, and he obviously wanted something to happen

No, his bodyguard was a dumbass. And why does Michael need a bodyguard?

No, it's because you want Americans trained to do what they promise to do.

So when some European calls for another rescue, the Americans will actually show up for more abuse.

Some European will say, yes, I know this is the third time, but the NATO treaty specifically says "unless the US wants to be considered a nation of hypocrites, it shall rescue the Europeans from their halfwit peccadillos on demand..."

You keep coming to bail us out. You never learn, do you? We keep being hypocrites, you keep falling it for it. Because- we're just so charming and intelligent. Ah oui oui oui, all the way home.

And why does Michael need a bodyguard?

Two words: maniacal conservatives.

As opposed to the Bush = monkey one?

Equally as infantile.

I just found it funny. The same people who are against gun ownership (and anyone who made Bowling for Columbine is someone who is defnitely out to oppose and ridicule gun ownership) are the same people who believe you have no right to protect yourself other than by calling the police.

If Moore is attacked by someone who doesn't like him, he should call the police and wait.

Can you say "just like the anti-gun Rosie O'Donnell" boys and girls? :D

You keep coming to bail us out. You never learn, do you? We keep being hypocrites, you keep falling it for it. Because- we're just so charming and intelligent. Ah oui oui oui, all the way home.

I was in Paris with my wife, and eating at an overpriced restaurant, and of course, pate was on the menu, and she ordered some.

I know it's just goose guts baked in fat (well, duck on occasion). But that didn't stop her from paying through the nose for it.

After tasting it, she said, "you know, this tastes just like potted meat product".

I don't have to worry about her ever ordering it again. But Europeans are experts at getting Americans to pay extra for crap they couldn't get their pigs to eat.

As opposed to the Bush = monkey one? ;)
But there's a difference. Moore's situation is probably a disease, and 50% of American adults are on the same slippery slope. While as a monkey just "happened" to be voted for president.
Try guessing what country's leadership looks like a circus freakshow, even when looking aside the weird acting in international politics.

I was in Paris with my wife, and eating at an overpriced restaurant, and of course, pate was on the menu, and she ordered some.

I know it's just goose guts baked in fat (well, duck on occasion). But that didn't stop her from paying through the nose for it.

After tasting it, she said, "you know, this tastes just like potted meat product".

I don't have to worry about her ever ordering it again. But Europeans are experts at getting Americans to pay extra for crap they couldn't get their pigs to eat.


Pretty much. But even then, we'd still be offended by you turning down our pig-swill.
I'm sure I could come up with something about Americans not having taste, thanks to all that salty crap they eat, but I wont.

For one thing... Moore never proclaimed guns were the problem with America (i.e. his whole trip to Canada, with an explanation that they have just as many guns as we do), his point was based around the concept that American news agencies (not to mention politics) promote a sense of ever-present fear, which makes us believe that we need a gun for the sake of self-defense. Frankly, if there is one person who actually needs a gun for 'self-defense' it is probably Michael Moore, because of all of the people out there who misinterpret what he is saying, and think he's trying to take their guns away from them. P.S. The problem with prominent Democrats is that they very rarely make it into the news... or if they do it is as the butt of a joke provided by a propaganda machine... for instance if I bother to name Dennis Kucinich, I'm sure the mockery will begin, with little or no knowledge of his actual political affiliations. May Paul Wellstone Rest in Peace

Pretty much. But even then, we'd still be offended by you turning down our pig-swill.
I'm sure I could come up with something about Americans not having taste, thanks to all that salty crap they eat, but I wont.

It's hard to choose between which is worse - most fast food in America, or some caviar.

I get gut cramps from either, so there you have it.

Two words: maniacal conservatives.

Equally as infantile.

Um ... the last I heard, the only "manical" homicidal people were Jhiadists, yes? They're not likely to attack the ignoble Mr. Moore, since he's one of the best friends they have here in the US.

Moore, O'Donnel, and others who don't want the rest of us to have weapons with which to defend ourselves use the following reasoning ( if you can dignify it as "reasoning" ):

1. We are the elite of this Country.

2. There are those out there who do not like us ( although we really have trouble understanding why! ).

3. We need to protect ourselves from these people who don't like us ( even though there are few if any instances of this ever being necessary ).

4. Therefore, we need to have our bodyguards carry concealed weapons ( even though our bodyguards sometimes forget to register their guns in States where we grace the great unwashed with our presence ).

5. Other people will use registered firearms to kill someone we might like.

6. Therefore only those we like, such as our bodyguards, should be allowed to own guns ( even though the US Constitution guarantees everyone's right to do so; after all, the Constitution is just a piece of paper, and sooo outdated at that! ).[/SARCSAM]

This doesn't make Moore look like a hypocite at all. He never once said he thought all guns should be banned in "Bowling for Columbine." He posed a lot of leading questions and senerios but he never stated it himself.

Moore is devisive sure, but he's not hypocritical about it.
You don't have to overtly state something to make your position known.

Excuse me, o holier-than-thou, but I was asking a pertinent question. Can you NAME just ONE Democratic politician that matters today?

Also, did you note my :( in the post? :p

thank you I AM holier than thou. :p

Okay I'll play along - I'll name one Democrat that matters - Harry Reid.

I'm not a Democrat but I'm sure I could come up with more without trying.

You don't have to overtly state something to make your position known.

Where did he state it at all? Could he perhaps have been making some other point with his documentary? The answer is only a few posts up and was quite clear to me. Why did you have such a hard time getting it?

From the employers of the owner of the gun.

Dear Moorewatch Editors:

Our firm employs Patrick Burk.

Fox News has now removed the link for this story from their home page; their original story contained several errors (below). We want to be certain you are aware of the appropriate corrections.

I know that Fox News editors must rely upon others when preparing their stories, and I offer with no judgment that their story titled “Michael Moore’s Bodyguard Arrested on Airport Gun Charge” contains several errors, including its entire headline.

Please correct the errors in your story below as soon as possible, because, as you are aware, the errors reach an ever-widening audience with each passing minute - and will predictably be picked up by other news agencies.

Our full-time employee, Patrick Burk, is not “Michael Moore’s bodyguard.” Accordingly, the headline in the Fox News Web site story is false and misleading.

If you believe Patrick Burk was ever assigned to protect Michael Moore, or any number of other public figures, you might accurately report that “A bodyguard who was once assigned to protect Michael Moore...”

You could as accurately say “A bodyguard that was once assigned to protect President Clinton,” because Patrick Burk has also been assigned to protect President Clinton in the past - but you wouldn’t be accurate if you said “President Clinton’s Bodyguard.”

Patrick Burk is not Michael Moore’s bodyguard, nor was he protecting Michael Moore or in any way involved with Michael Moore on Wednesday night, when he (Burk) was checking in at JFK for a flight to Los Angeles.

When checking in for the flight, Patrick Burk voluntarily advised United Airlines that he was transporting an unloaded, locked firearm in his checked luggage, precisely as regulations require, and not “carrying” a weapon, as your story inaccurately reports. Advising the counter ticket agent is a routine procedure for police officers and security professionals. In this case, a Port Authority officer decided to arrest Patrick Burk on the charge that he is not licensed to carry a firearm in New York City.

The Fox web site headline contains an error not present in the story. The headline indicates that Patrick Burk was arrested on an “airport gun charge.” He was not. The charge involves having a firearm without a New York City License to carry it. On that note, Patrick Burk was not carrying a weapon on his person (only locked in his baggage), and the police do not allege that he was carrying a weapon on his person, as your story implies.

Police, security professionals, sportsmen, and citizen gun owners who fly on the Nation’s airlines are legally bound to advise the airlines of firearms in their checked baggage - and the firearms are transported just like any other baggage.

The Fox News story also says Patrick Burk was carrying “an unlicensed firearm.” Please correct that error. Patrick Burk’s firearm is legally registered to Patrick Burk - it is not “unlicensed.” Patrick Burk is licensed to carry a firearm in several States, and a court will determine if any charge is appropriate for Patrick Burk in this matter, which involves New York City.

Though I realize a Michael Moore connection would be of interest to your web site, Patrick Burk is not Michael Moore’s bodyguard, and has never been employed by Michael Moore.

An important note for you is that Patrick Burk is not a public figure and even the smallest inaccurate detail that is widely disseminated could predictably interfere with his ability to pursue his profession. Patrick Burk is a former Marine who served with distinction in an elite and specialized Marine unit, and he protected, among others, then-President Clinton.

Our firm (www.gavindebecker.com) provides protective coverage for public figures and others, and Patrick Burk is a leading professional in his field.

I highlighted in red below the specific errors where they appear in the Fox News story.

Please let me know that you have received this email, and if you need further information or need to reach our firm, please call (redacted), and ask for (redacted).

Sincerely-

Gavin de Becker

Michael Moore isn't really anti-gun. He's more, anti-don't-be-irresponsible-with-a-gun.

Moore never opposed owning a gun for protection, he was simply giving his input on America's and it's obsession with violence. Don't forget that he is a member of the NRA. Next time you wanna say something moronic like this, RESEARCH FIRST. :upyours:

It's such a great thing that the USA and the French are getting along... :p

As for Moore, yes, he says a lot of dumb things. And yes, he's a chubby ole bear to say the least :D . But after cross-checking sources on Fahrenheit 9/11, I have to say it's factual. And it's certainly a better propaganda movie than any made by the American government ;) . And that quote showed what I suspected all along: He said he was Moore's body guard, but that doesn't mean that he was. Nice try, Fox "News". :p

Iraqestonia Michael Moore isn't really anti-gun. He's more, anti-don't-be-irresponsible-with-a-gun.
The problem is that America has such a violent culture. I lived there for three years, and the crime level is downright freaky at times. Guns aren't bad in themselves, but in a culture like the USA's, they're very dangerous. I could point to several countries with far more guns than old USA and show you what a low crime rate they have. History shows that the more people in a neighbourhood in the states own guns, the higher the crime rate. Why? Guns are bought for self-defence :( .

And I guess you mean "anti-irresponsible-with-a-gun"? ;)

:upyours:
Wooh, the angry-six-year-old-smiley :D !

Moore's in NRA? Didn't know that. I'll have to research a bit on that, and if it's true, it's the goddamned most hilarious thing I've ever heard :rolleyes: .

Micheal Moore is an enigma. He says "im not anti gun." But nothing he does relfects that. He basically called the NRA the KKK in disguise. He calls heston an unfeeling man. He splices clips from different gun rallys to make it look like one to make the NRA seem callous. He took abunch of kids to K-MArt from columbine to get rid of handgun ammo. But the kids didnt realize that was what he wanted. He butchered the bank scene in the beginning of Bowling for columbine. Made fun of the michigan militia. If he isnt anti-gun, then he needs to recommend a reasonable alternative to gun crime, not to miscontrue the truth to fit his agenda

Moore never opposed owning a gun for protection, he was simply giving his input on America's and it's obsession with violence. Don't forget that he is a member of the NRA. Next time you wanna say something moronic like this, RESEARCH FIRST. :upyours:

Your right he is a member. BUt if i joined a church, then started saying bad things about that church all the time. Would i be a good representative of that church ? NO. The only reason he is a member is so when people confront his anti gun views he can go " oh but im a member of the NRA, even though i hate then and despise the presidenT"

It's such a great thing that the USA and the French are getting along... :p


The problem is that America has such a violent culture. I lived there for three years, and the crime level is downright freaky at times. Guns aren't bad in themselves, but in a culture like the USA's, they're very dangerous. I could point to several countries with far more guns than old USA and show you what a low crime rate they have. History shows that the more people in a neighbourhood in the states own guns, the higher the crime rate. Why? Guns are bought for self-defence :( .

And I guess you mean "anti-irresponsible-with-a-gun"? ;)


Yes, america also has had extreme racial tension that europe has not had, or japan, or even canada. IM not saying it makes everyhting ok, but it is tough.

Wooh, the angry-six-year-old-smiley :D !

Moore's in NRA? Didn't know that. I'll have to research a bit on that, and if it's true, it's the goddamned most hilarious thing I've ever heard :rolleyes: .
Yep, Moore is a lifetime member. Former NRA president Heston had the policy of personally talking to any lifetime member. Moore joined up so he could waylay Heston at his home.

If he thinks I shouldn't own a gun for protection, neither should he, whether it's carried by him or a bodyguard. And I know that if I was that stupid at the airport, they would put a rubber glove so far up my ass I'd be tasting rubber.

NEW YORK — Filmmaker Michael Moore's (search) bodyguard was arrested for carrying an unlicensed weapon in New York's JFK airport Wednesday night.

Police took Patrick Burke, who says Moore employs him, into custody after he declared he was carrying a firearm at a ticket counter. Burke is licensed to carry a firearm in Florida and California, but not in New York. Burke was taken to Queens central booking and could potentially be charged with a felony for the incident.

Moore's 2003 Oscar-winning film "Bowling for Columbine" criticizes what Moore calls America's "culture of fear" and its obsession with guns.
I guess that Michael Moore is more important than you would give him credit for?

Michael Moore isn't really anti-gun. He's more, anti-don't-be-irresponsible-with-a-gun.

<<Powering on the double-negative-removal-o-tron>>

Michael Moore isn't really anti-gun.
He's more, be-irresponsible-with-a-gun.

<<off>>

...and that scares me all the more. :D

thank you I AM holier than thou. :p

Okay I'll play along - I'll name one Democrat that matters - Harry Reid.

I'm not a Democrat but I'm sure I could come up with more without trying.

That's fair. My ordination as Ukrainian anti-Pope isn't for a few weeks yet. :D

Look, I'll give some props to the Senator of Nevada for being the Democratic Leader. But there's no **way** you can tell me that this guy even registers on the average American's radar. Dean? Sure. Lieberman? Probably. But Reid? Not so much. Thank GOODNESS Jon Stewart talked about him on The Daily Show so *some* people knows who he is!

My point was that there really isn't a single Democrat that is electable, or that can even form a major faction in the party at this point. Tsongas, Gephart, Clinton, Carter, Hart, Dean... they've all been able to in the past. Right now, there is no one. The Democratic Party, at this point, is reliving 1984-1990.

And no, I'm not happy about that. I'm a big believer that the two parties NEED each other, since they're 75%-90% the same ANYWAY.

PS- Since you seem to think I'm GOP: As a Connecticut Independent, I've voted for Lieberman 3 times for the Senate.

Nice to see that like every good liberal he makes sure all the guns carried by his bodyguards are properly licenced and everything.
Moore is a typical hollywood liberal douch.

NEW YORK — Filmmaker Michael Moore's (search) bodyguard was arrested for carrying an unlicensed weapon in New York's JFK airport Wednesday night.

Police took Patrick Burke, who says Moore employs him, into custody after he declared he was carrying a firearm at a ticket counter. Burke is licensed to carry a firearm in Florida and California, but not in New York. Burke was taken to Queens central booking and could potentially be charged with a felony for the incident.

Do you have a link?

Moore is a typical hollywood liberal douch.
Your random use of the word "douche" shows your low-class attitude to politics. Your argument gets exponentially weaker any time you make a cheap insult. Stick to the facts and you'll have much more clout in debates than just "He's an America-hating, fat, ugly communist".

Your random use of the word "douche" shows your low-class attitude to politics. Your argument gets exponentially weaker any time you make a cheap insult. Stick to the facts and you'll have much more clout in debates than just "He's an America-hating, fat, ugly communist".
Does using a liberal tactic offend you? Did I call you a douch or address you in any way? Ignore if you don't like it. And if you think that you are impressing anyone by using words like exponentially and clout, your right, but they are all elitiest liberals with their lunch on thier shirts, and unwashed umkempt hair falling inthier Ramen noodles.

Does using a liberal tactic offend you? Did I call you a douch or address you in any way? Ignore if you don't like it. And if you think that you are impressing anyone by using words like exponentially and clout, your right, but they are all elitiest liberals with their lunch on thier shirts, and unwashed umkempt hair falling inthier Ramen noodles.
I did not say that you or anybody else called me a douche. Exponential and clout are words that I use on a day-today-basis, and I'm sorry if that comes across as elitist. I've gone to public schools my whole life.

Do you have a link?
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/crime/nyc-gun0121,0,5663690.story?coll=nyc-homepage-breaking2

Just use Google News and type in "Moore bodyguard"

A similar thing happened with Ted Kennedy back in the 1980s. His bodyguard had seven firearms on his body, two of which were compact submachineguns.

I've always been of the opinion that I only have two hands, and the idea of seven firearms on my person all at the same time seems ludicrous.

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/crime/nyc-gun0121,0,5663690.story?coll=nyc-homepage-breaking2

Just use Google News and type in "Moore bodyguard"

A similar thing happened with Ted Kennedy back in the 1980s. His bodyguard had seven firearms on his body, two of which were compact submachineguns.

I've always been of the opinion that I only have two hands, and the idea of seven firearms on my person all at the same time seems ludicrous.
havnt played half life or duke nukem or any other first person shooter have you?
you need all seven in case your attacked by hordes of alterdimensional aliens or nazis or something

havnt played half life or duke nukem or any other first person shooter have you?
you need all seven in case your attacked by hordes of alterdimensional aliens or nazis or something

No, I like CS, and if I needed seven firearms all at once, I'd be shot dead before I finish the rounds in the first weapon.

In real life, you really only have the ability to use one firearm at a time. If you want to use another firearm, you have to transition. If people are shooting at you, and you haven't been able to take cover, transitioning isn't something that's really practical to do.

If he thinks I shouldn't own a gun for protection, neither should he, whether it's carried by him or a bodyguard. And I know that if I was that stupid at the airport, they would put a rubber glove so far up my ass I'd be tasting rubber.

NEW YORK — Filmmaker Michael Moore's (search) bodyguard was arrested for carrying an unlicensed weapon in New York's JFK airport Wednesday night.

Police took Patrick Burke, who says Moore employs him, into custody after he declared he was carrying a firearm at a ticket counter. Burke is licensed to carry a firearm in Florida and California, but not in New York. Burke was taken to Queens central booking and could potentially be charged with a felony for the incident.

Moore's 2003 Oscar-winning film "Bowling for Columbine" criticizes what Moore calls America's "culture of fear" and its obsession with guns.

I don’t understand why you think Moore is a hypocrite? The man arrested is a former Marine, trained in the use of firearms, licensed to carry them, and WAS NOT WITH MOORE when he was arrested.

Furthermore, Michael Moore's film, Bowling for Columbine, is not a documentary calling for the abolition of guns. Moore himself says, "This is not a film about gun control." It is an attempt to "discover why our pursuit of happiness is so riddled with violence." The fact that Michael Moore needs a bodyguard certainly points to that truth.

I don’t understand why you think Moore is a hypocrite? The man arrested is a former Marine, trained in the use of firearms, licensed to carry them, and WAS NOT WITH MOORE when he was arrested.

Furthermore, Michael Moore's film, Bowling for Columbine, is not a documentary calling for the abolition of guns. Moore himself says, "This is not a film about gun control." It is an attempt to "discover why our pursuit of happiness is so riddled with violence." The fact that Michael Moore needs a bodyguard certainly points to that truth.

Moore is a hypocrite. He doesn't need a bodyguard if he thinks that my desire to own a firearm for my own protection is invalid.

I'm a former Army infantryman, trained in the use of firearms, licensed to carry them - and I'm a member of the NRA. I saw the film, and it is nothing but an attempt to invalidate and ridicule anyone who has any desire to own a firearm.

Any time I see a film with so many lies in it I can walk on them over the heads of the people in the theater, I figure that the author has a real axe to grind - he doesn't want the average American to possess firearms. He doesn't need to come out and say the exact words. It was the whole theme of the film.

I'm a former Army infantryman, trained in the use of firearms, licensed to carry them - and I'm a member of the NRA. I saw the film, and it is nothing but an attempt to invalidate and ridicule anyone who has any desire to own a firearm.

No offense, but 'anyone who has any desire to own a firearm'? unfortunately there are way too many people out there who were not trained in the use of firearms and can and should not handle one.

No, I like CS, and if I needed seven firearms all at once, I'd be shot dead before I finish the rounds in the first weapon.

In real life, you really only have the ability to use one firearm at a time. If you want to use another firearm, you have to transition. If people are shooting at you, and you haven't been able to take cover, transitioning isn't something that's really practical to do.
CS is the crappiest game ever made and its popularity is asinine, it is less realitic than half the other "unrealistic" mods in that it overexaggerates everything and lets bugs stay in teh game to perpetuate magic "realness"

and good job taking a joke, ill just ignore the gunnut neoconity

No offense, but 'anyone who has any desire to own a firearm'? unfortunately there are way too many people out there who were not trained in the use of firearms and can and should not handle one.

I would have thought someone who was trained would be more dangerous.
If I had someone shooting at me I'd prefer they didn't know what they were doing, that way they'd have less chance of hitting me...

I would have thought someone who was trained would be more dangerous.
If I had someone shooting at me I'd prefer they didn't know what they were doing, that way they'd have less chance of hitting me...
...and more chance of hitting whoever else might be passing? ;)
what i meant to say with a person 'trained' to handle a gun is that they also learn not to shoot random people they don't like for whatever reason.

Did anyone here actually watch Bowling For Columbine? Michael Moore did not speak out against gun ownership in that movie. Bowling for Columbine was designed in such a way that it would lead you through various possible explenations for why we have the violence that we do in the US, and then when you think you have hit upon the explenation, it would say "wait a minute....thats not it either". Gun ownership was presented as a possible reason but then that concept was blown away when he went to Canada and showed how the Canadians also love guns yet dont have the crime we do. He did the same with violence on television and movies, and other such possible explenations which he went on to disprove. So, I really dont see any hypocrisy here, his movie recognized that gun ownership does not contribute to violent crime.

No offense, but 'anyone who has any desire to own a firearm'? unfortunately there are way too many people out there who were not trained in the use of firearms and can and should not handle one.

I guess that explains the difference between Maryland and Virginia.
Here in Virginia, we have substantially lower rates of violent crime - rates that were nearly identical prior to the implementation of readily obtainable concealed carry permits in Virginia. Maryland, during the same period, made their gun laws tougher, and they are experiencing a rise in violent crime.

Two affluent suburban counties adjacent to one another - one in Maryland, and one in Virginia. The Maryland county now has a 33 percent higher violent crime rate.

Now Virginia has legalized open carry without permits. There was no upsurge in violence, no accidental shootings in the street, no gunfights at the OK Corral - but the violent crime rate is dropping further.

I feel much, much safer in Virginia. I don't go to Maryland anymore unless I absolutely have to.

At the Fairfax County Adult Detention Center, interviewed prisoners have stated that they would much rather carry out their crimes - burglary, assault, rape, robbery - in Maryland, just across the border, where the victim is guaranteed to be unarmed. They say it's become much, much too dangerous to try it in Virginia.

...I'm a member of the NRA.

So is Michael Moore.

I guess that explains the difference between Maryland and Virginia.
Here in Virginia, we have substantially lower rates of violent crime - rates that were nearly identical prior to the implementation of readily obtainable concealed carry permits in Virginia. Maryland, during the same period, made their gun laws tougher, and they are experiencing a rise in violent crime.

Two affluent suburban counties adjacent to one another - one in Maryland, and one in Virginia. The Maryland county now has a 33 percent higher violent crime rate.

Now Virginia has legalized open carry without permits. There was no upsurge in violence, no accidental shootings in the street, no gunfights at the OK Corral - but the violent crime rate is dropping further.

I feel much, much safer in Virginia. I don't go to Maryland anymore unless I absolutely have to.

At the Fairfax County Adult Detention Center, interviewed prisoners have stated that they would much rather carry out their crimes - burglary, assault, rape, robbery - in Maryland, just across the border, where the victim is guaranteed to be unarmed. They say it's become much, much too dangerous to try it in Virginia.

So you're saying you'd rather live somewhere where everyone carries a gun just so nobody attacks them than somewhere where no one except for criminals have guns?
...I guess that makes sense...sort of.

So you're saying you'd rather live somewhere where everyone carries a gun just so nobody attacks them than somewhere where no one except for criminals have guns?
...I guess that makes sense...sort of.

The crime statistics back this up. Not just in Virginia, but in 33 other US states. They have seen the same effect.

Now, not everyone carries one. And you still have to be someone who has never committed a felony, and never have been considered mentally defective (all done by an instant background check via computer at the gun store). But, there is a presumption that you're innocent - you haven't committed a crime. So they sell you the gun. And you can carry it in the open in any location except a church, school, or courtroom. If you want a concealed carry permit, you take a quick class in the concealment laws and demonstrate that you can actually hit a large target at close range while taking all the time in the world. I have personally taught people who were wheelchair-bound how to shoot so that they could defend themselves. They had been attacked multiple times in the past, because police don't arrive in time.

But the criminals know that a lot of people carry. 93 percent of violent felons don't use a gun when committing their crime. So they are unarmed - it's not as easy to get a gun as the TV shows imply when you can't pass the background check.

Think about it. You're an unarmed felon. You rob people by beating them up with a tire iron. Would you rather attempt robbery in a county where many people are armed, some secretly, or will you take a 10 minute drive to another county where everyone is guaranteed to be unarmed?

It makes sense to the criminals.

...and more chance of hitting whoever else might be passing? ;)
what i meant to say with a person 'trained' to handle a gun is that they also learn not to shoot random people they don't like for whatever reason.

In theory that sounds reasonable, however... in the town where my parents now live, about 9 years ago a guy who was a gun enthusiast, licenced and trained, went into the primary school on a killing spree.
16 kids and one teacher were killed, the kids were all aged around 5 or 6

Gun ownership where I come from(Scotland) is rare, most gun owners are farmers(and since the event I mentioned the gun laws were changed drastically making it difficult to own a gun and with a limit of a .22 being the most powerful handgun you can own). We dont get many gun crimes because people dont have guns.
Thats not to say theres not a lot of violent crime, there is, but being shot is more likely to kill you than taking a beating.

You would have to be a complete idiot to think that either Michael or Rush are credible at any level other than bad comedy.

Your 18 posts on this thread seem to indicate that at least you find some of Moore's views credible enough to go to the bother of trying to refute them.

Your 16 posts on this thread seem to indicate that at least you find some of Moore's views credible enough to go to the bother of trying to refute them.

No, I believe that some people are stupid enough to take Moore as fact. That does have an effect. Ideas don't have to be credible in order to make me want to refute them.

I meant "here" in the US. Clinton, Bush, Kerry, and any other American, including me, is not allowed to be a hypocrite.

A European may, of course. A French President may marry a woman, and swear an oath to be faithful, and then run out and get a mistress. No one, including the wife and mistress, will have a problem with this, as the hypocritical situation of making a promise of faithfulness is required to be broken immediately and permanently as a matter of tradition.

Even when Mitterand died, both women, who were good friends, attended the funeral together.

But if an American makes a promise, or even says something, a European will hold him to it.

The world has much higher expectations of Americans. And maybe its the fault of Americans for trying so hard to reach goals that are almost unatainable.
No one expects the rest of the world to be faithful or honest. So when European leaders have extramarital affairs, or take advantage of oil for food programs for their own perononal gain-at the tremendous expense of the poor- its overlooked and shame on you for being holier than thou.

The world has much higher expectations of Americans. And maybe its the fault of Americans for trying so hard to reach goals that are almost unatainable.

No, the rest of the world would prefer that America stopped thinking they rule the world and forcing their ways on everyone else.
I currently live in central europe(Luxembourg), and I work with people of all nationalities(in my team there is Scots, English, Indian, Russian, French, Belgian, Greek, Luxembourgish... the list goes on).

America is very unpopular, the general opinion is that Americans are overweight, under educated, have no real idea of world politics or other cultures and that most Americans havent even been outside of America.

No one has high expectations of the US, quite the opposite, we always expect the worst...

No, the rest of the world would prefer that America stopped thinking they rule the world and forcing their ways on everyone else.
I currently live in central europe(Luxembourg), and I work with people of all nationalities(in my team there is Scots, English, Indian, Russian, French, Belgian, Greek, Luxembourgish... the list goes on).

America is very unpopular, the general opinion is that Americans are overweight, under educated, have no real idea of world politics or other cultures and that most Americans havent even been outside of America.

No one has high expectations of the US, quite the opposite, we always expect the worst...

I also work with people of all nationalities. I live in the United States. Contrary to popular opinion, there is and has been a massive tidal wave of immigrants over the past decade, as well as a lot of H-1B visa workers. So there is a profound difference in the US as compared to what you think is going on over here.

Most of us (at least the nearly 200 people in this office) are not overweight. I am willing to bet that when you are 44, you will not be in half as good condition as I am.

And, I've been out of the United States quite a bit. With the military. As a software developer. In Finland, Germany, Norway, the UK, France, Austria, Italy, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Korea, China, Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand (I won't count all the places I've been in the Americas - North, South, and Central).

I know quite a few Americans who have done the same, and who speak many foreign languages fluently.

I am quite well educated, as are the Americans that I mention. We, and most of the visa holding Indian staff at our company are also Republicans.

I would imagine that if Islam wasn't so bad at PR stunts like 911, we might not all be Republicans. But, that was a really, really poor idea as a PR stunt. It has generated nothing but ill will. Most of the Indians I talk to here have nothing good to say about Islam, either. Between Kashmir and the raid on the Indian Parliament, they have no chance of changing their mind about Islam.

No, the rest of the world would prefer that America stopped thinking they rule the world and forcing their ways on everyone else.
I currently live in central europe(Luxembourg), and I work with people of all nationalities(in my team there is Scots, English, Indian, Russian, French, Belgian, Greek, Luxembourgish... the list goes on).

America is very unpopular, the general opinion is that Americans are overweight, under educated, have no real idea of world politics or other cultures and that most Americans havent even been outside of America.

No one has high expectations of the US, quite the opposite, we always expect the worst...

Which shows how biased your opinion is.

There is no way America can win. If genocide or a disaster occurs and we intercede, we're interfering in national rights, soveriegnity etc. If we do nothing we're stingy or uncaring or not doing our part.
After Desert Storm, we were accused of allowing Iraqi children to starve, now that the Oil for food scandal has popped up, we invaded for oil.

Recent reports show that Europe has a considerably higher obesity level than the US.

Eh, does that mean you have to register your gun for EVERY state you visit carrying a firearm? Geez, that's thievery. Imagine what it would cost you when you're the bodyguard of a businessman or politician! Stupid gun law, stupid guns, stupid country.

That's fair. My ordination as Ukrainian anti-Pope isn't for a few weeks yet. :D

Look, I'll give some props to the Senator of Nevada for being the Democratic Leader. But there's no **way** you can tell me that this guy even registers on the average American's radar. Dean? Sure. Lieberman? Probably. But Reid? Not so much. Thank GOODNESS Jon Stewart talked about him on The Daily Show so *some* people knows who he is!

My point was that there really isn't a single Democrat that is electable, or that can even form a major faction in the party at this point. Tsongas, Gephart, Clinton, Carter, Hart, Dean... they've all been able to in the past. Right now, there is no one. The Democratic Party, at this point, is reliving 1984-1990.

And no, I'm not happy about that. I'm a big believer that the two parties NEED each other, since they're 75%-90% the same ANYWAY.

PS- Since you seem to think I'm GOP: As a Connecticut Independent, I've voted for Lieberman 3 times for the Senate.

You are right - noone seems to register on the AVERAGE american radar. most Americans I think are too dissillusioned by politics to register anything more than the pres of the US and sometimes the Gov of their own state.

Your question to me wasn't to name an electable Dem (I assume you were talking Presidential)- but had you said that I would have conceeded - But I couldnt name one electable Republican either outside of Bush and I can't for the life of me figure out how Bush was electable in the first place. Let alone re-electable.

*shudder* oh well. life goes on and the US becomes a little uglier in the eyes of the rest of the world and to half if not more of the US.

And I love John Stewart. Smart political comedians rock.

And with regards to that FOX news story you got pwned Jonh B.. PWNED! :p You should know better than to hang on FOX news' every word.

So now that the people who claimed that Moore is a hypocrit for carrying a gun at an airport when he criticises gun ownership are blown out, because the facts are revealed that a person who *used* to be Moores body guard carried a gun in an airport and Moore did not criticise gun ownership but the climate of fear created by the US media, we're going back to the old 'EU vs USA' argument?

Okay...ahem...

'lolololol uripeons suxor cos wimmin their hav hairy armpits!'

Who's next?

You are right - noone seems to register on the AVERAGE american radar. most Americans I think are too dissillusioned by politics to register anything more than the pres of the US and sometimes the Gov of their own state.

Your question to me wasn't to name an electable Dem (I assume you were talking Presidential)- but had you said that I would have conceeded - But I couldnt name one electable Republican either outside of Bush and I can't for the life of me figure out how Bush was electable in the first place. Let alone re-electable.

*shudder* oh well. life goes on and the US becomes a little uglier in the eyes of the rest of the world and to half if not more of the US.

And I love John Stewart. Smart political comedians rock.

And with regards to that FOX news story you got pwned Jonh B.. PWNED! :p You should know better than to hang on FOX news' every word.

Actually, I believe that since life is anywhere from tolerable to okay to good for the majority of Americans, that is why we have such political apathy.

I said one Dem that mattered, but I probably wasn't being clear enough. What I meant was a Dem that could unite the party. Because right now, there is no unified leadership at all. My own (CT) state senators are proof of that. Liberman is his own side, the Clintons are their own side, etc... the party is split up like Medieval Italian city-states.
Bush had name-brand recognition, a deep war chest and (if you want to admit it or not) he's actually a bright man. He may not emote well. He has a speech impediment. But he is anything but stupid.

Given how the rest of the world has acted since the fall of the USSR, I really don't give a rat's ass. The UN and EU have repeatedly failed to do anything positive, with the possible exception of the Kyoto Protocols. (I'm not counting humanitarian actions, which most everyone gives to.)

I would love to see a point/counterpoint show with Jon Stewart and Dennis Miller. It'd be bloody hysterical. And I think those two could keep it civil, unlike the trash on cable news.

Huh? Fox news?? :confused:

day-today-basis I've gone to public schools my whole life.
It shows.

I would love to see a point/counterpoint show with Jon Stewart and Dennis Miller. It'd be bloody hysterical. And I think those two could keep it civil, unlike the trash on cable news.

Huh? Fox news?? :confused:

That is an awesome idea for a show! Seriously I would watch it, although Dennis Miller says a lot of shit I don't understand, while Jon Stewart dumbs it down for us simple folk.

I was referring to the original story in this thread when talkign about FOX.

I don't think Bush is stupid... just horrible for our country and the rest of the world and thought that was rather apparent but I guess not considering all the people who voted for and support him.

That is an awesome idea for a show! Seriously I would watch it, although Dennis Miller says a lot of shit I don't understand, while Jon Stewart dumbs it down for us simple folk.

I was referring to the original story in this thread when talkign about FOX.

I don't think Bush is stupid... just horrible for our country and the rest of the world and thought that was rather apparent but I guess not considering all the people who voted for and support him.

:)

Ah... that makes sense. Thanks. (I don't actually watch cable news.)

I'm not so sure. He may not be the best for our country, but I think he's done a decent job overall. I *know* he did better than Gore would have, though I suspect a Kerry administration would have about the same report card.

I also think that one of the things that did in the DEMs in the last two elections was a semi-snobby hubris. Kind of a "we know we're smarter than you" look and feel that really doesn't play well with others.
I think (living in a blue state - CT and working in a blue state - NY) that most blue state folk don't really go anywhere that's not another blue state. Well, maybe Florida, but that's a margin call anyway. I think that's why folks are so incredulous and crap like "Jesusland" got made up...

I'm not so sure. He may not be the best for our country, but I think he's done a decent job overall. I *know* he did better than Gore would have, though I suspect a Kerry administration would have about the same report card.

Well he hasn't blown up the Earth so I guess he hasn't failed completely. Seriously I can't see where he has done a good job at anything while being President. To say that you KNOW he would have done a better job than anyone certainly maies me wonder where you got your crystal ball of ultimate wisdom. Maybe it was how I KNEW Bush would take us back into the dark ages had he gotten elected.

I also think that one of the things that did in the DEMs in the last two elections was a semi-snobby hubris. Kind of a "we know we're smarter than you" look and feel that really doesn't play well with others.


I don't think the Democrats acted as if they knew better anymore than the Republicans acted as such. I just think there was a bigger outcry from the Dems (and the further left in general, as I wouldnt exactly call the Dems leftists) because they had never seen such a horrible administration and so they put out such a high energy of dislike. But I don't think that is what won Bush the second term. I think it was because Kerry sucked balls as a candidate. I liked Howard Dean and believed he could have won had people not been so idiotic about his enthusiastic scream. I mean really, what was so bad about that? To be against Dean because of that is simply childish.

B

Everyone's a hypocrite, get over it people.

Mr. Moore is in Washington, DC this week. There are no Jack in the Boxes on the East Coast. :D

Please substitute Dennys or Silver Diner.

I beg to differ... there are Jack in the Boxes in both Georgia and South Carolina.

What we have learned from this thread:
Moore is a hypocrite
Bush is a monkey
The names given to the two are infantile
Gun control is good if you're Democrat
every nut needs one if you're a Republicans
Maryland has a high crime rate; Virginia doesn't
Europe is filled to the brim with hypocrites
in America, it's a sin to lie

This is picked out from ALL the flaming. :D I hope this has been an educational experience.

I did not say that you or anybody else called me a douche. Exponential and clout are words that I use on a day-today-basis, and I'm sorry if that comes across as elitist. I've gone to public schools my whole life.
Out of curiosity, what do you do on a "day-to-day basis" that would require the use of the word "exponential"? I can understand a possible occaisional use, but doing so regularly would seem to me to either be misapplication or overusage, either of which will eventually render the word meaningless and therefore usless. The same reasoning would apply to "clout". I could be wrong (eG. if you worked with math or physics on a regular basis).

So now that the people who claimed that Moore is a hypocrit for carrying a gun at an airport when he criticises gun ownership are blown out, because the facts are revealed that a person who *used* to be Moores body guard carried a gun in an airport and Moore did not criticise gun ownership but the climate of fear created by the US media, we're going back to the old 'EU vs USA' argument?


No, he's a hypocrite because he feels the need for an armed bodyguard. If he thinks that my ownership of a gun for reasons of protection is something to be ridiculed, he means that I shouldn't own one.

And if I can't carry one for protection, he shouldn't have an armed bodyguard. In fact, he shouldn't even have an unarmed bodyguard. He should have to protect his own fat ass with his own bare hands.

I beg to differ... there are Jack in the Boxes in both Georgia and South Carolina.

Wha?? When did that happen?? :confused:

Oh... nevermind.
http://www.jackinthebox.com/locations/index.php?section=5

Ok then: There are no Jack in the Boxes in the DC Metro area. :)

Your right he is a member. BUt if i joined a church, then started saying bad things about that church all the time. Would i be a good representative of that church ? NO. The only reason he is a member is so when people confront his anti gun views he can go " oh but im a member of the NRA, even though i hate then and despise the presidenT"

Yes, I'm sure as a child, he decided he would join the NRA in the hopes one day he could make a movie about how bad it is (not his point at all, he was commenting on America's obsession with violence.) :rolleyes: