NationStates Jolt Archive

There seems to be some conflict in sources, so does anyone actually know if braincells reproduce?
As far as I know, all cells in the body (except braincells) are replaced completely approximately every seven years. I think the cells responsible for memory reproduce, hense less-than-perfect ability to recollect, but the rest don't.
Anyone care to enlighten me?

There seems to be some conflict in sources, so does anyone actually know if braincells reproduce?
As far as I know, all cells in the body (except braincells) are replaced completely approximately every seven years. I think the cells responsible for memory reproduce, hense less-than-perfect ability to recollect, but the rest don't.
Anyone care to enlighten me?

Braincells do NOT reproduce once your brain is fully formed. Human brains tend to be physically devoloped in the late teens (which is why under age drinking is a no-no). Despite the fact that your brain cells no longer reproduce, no part of your brain cells are any older than about 8 months as the components are constantly replaced. I have more info, but it would require me consulting my books, would you like more info?

Braincells do NOT reproduce once your brain is fully formed. Human brains tend to be physically devoloped in the late teens (which is why under age drinking is a no-no). Despite the fact that your brain cells no longer reproduce, no part of your brain cells are any older than about 8 months as the components are constantly replaced. I have more info, but it would require me consulting my books, would you like more info?

Thank goodness, someone does know. Thanks. More info, yes please, if you would. How are these components replaced if the cells don't reproduce?

Wait... I thought there were too types of braincells. On type, the type that do the actual thinking, do not reproduce, but the type that facilitate the thinking do reproduce.

Or am I wrong.

Dendrites and Axons continue to reproduce indefinitely, although at a very slow pace. For a long time scientists were under the impression that the brain stopped its growth completely, but this was found to be wrong, and there might even be ways to accelerate this cell reproduction and allow for culturing of brain tissue or regeneration of the brain. Really exciting new possibilities in that.

Recently they found that certain braincells do reproduce and they are furthering the study.

The way they found this was in a cancer patient. They gave the patient a dye that would attach itself to newly formed cells, so they could keep an eye on the cancer rate of growth. When they checked the patient, they found growth in the brain, and feared cancer had spread. When the investigated they found that it was healthy, newly formed brain cells.

They have started investigating cell growth in the brain, its not nearly as fast as the rest of the body, but it does regrow. With the more information they learn on brain cell regeneration, they hope to find cures to many of the ailments of the brain, since most of them are due to degragation of the brain at an excellerated rate.

I thought the neo-cortex gets more wrinkly when more information goes in or when it gets used more.. like philosophy, if you're a philosophical thinker your neo-cortex(the bit around the outside, closer to the skull) would be more wrinkly. That could be an incredibly uneducated comment.. but I think I've heard something like that before.

Recently they found that certain braincells do reproduce and they are furthering the study.

The way they found this was in a cancer patient. They gave the patient a dye that would attach itself to newly formed cells, so they could keep an eye on the cancer rate of growth. When they checked the patient, they found growth in the brain, and feared cancer had spread. When the investigated they found that it was healthy, newly formed brain cells.

They have started investigating cell growth in the brain, its not nearly as fast as the rest of the body, but it does regrow. With the more information they learn on brain cell regeneration, they hope to find cures to many of the ailments of the brain, since most of them are due to degragation of the brain at an excellerated rate.

But some cells don't reproduce, do they?

I thought the neo-cortex gets more wrinkly when more information goes in or when it gets used more.. like philosophy, if you're a philosophical thinker your neo-cortex(the bit around the outside, closer to the skull) would be more wrinkly. That could be an incredibly uneducated comment.. but I think I've heard something like that before.

May-be.

But some cells don't reproduce, do they?
I'm not sure on what cells do and don't reproduce, but from the article I read, it said the memory cells were the ones that reproduced, and it seems thats where most of the problems come from.

I'm not sure on what cells do and don't reproduce, but from the article I read, it said the memory cells were the ones that reproduced, and it seems thats where most of the problems come from.

So I was fairly right to begin with. However, no braincell being older than ~8 months is something I haven't come across.

The hippocampus (learning and processing new memories), however, makes new neurons at a steady, vigorous pace. Perhaps the hippocampus (located roughly behind your ear) needs constant renewal to keep up with new information. The hippocampus of rats and mice cranks out 1,000 to 3,000 new neurons per day — a substantial fraction of each animal’s lifetime output. Younger animals make more new neurons than older ones do.
"in an adult, it takes about 30 days for a new-born cell to become a functioning neuron,"
http://www.wonderquest.com/brain-cell-reproduction-cicada-evolution.htm

Technically according to science they dont, and after seeing how folks are on some internet sites, I am inclined to agree.

Thank goodness, someone does know. Thanks. More info, yes please, if you would. How are these components replaced if the cells don't reproduce?

I'll try and make this simple...

As a rule brain cells do not reproduce, but as all rules are meant to be broken we have a hippocampus which reproduces cells that relate to long term memory and learning. Many things, such as age, stress ect can cause this (hippocampus) to shrink, thus reproducing less cells.

The rest of the brain however, once reaching adulthood does not divide and reproduce, instead they replace their components in a similar manner that liver cells do, but your brain does not metabolize fats, this is part of the reason why the brain is largely restricted to glucose and ketone bodies as sources of energy. So the brain needs your liver to metabolize almost everything into foods/building materials it can use. Now using chemical messangers (mRNA) the DNA in the brain cells use these protiens, sugars ect manufactured and sent by the liver to replace damaged parts of cells. In other words the liver sends most of the repairing tools and materials and DNA uses complex chemical messages to say what needs to be done, what needs to go where ect.

Those chemical signals sent by the DNA react with the building blocks to remake the damaged components. Sort of like the self-assembly of some shells. The sea creature produces chemical A on its back which reacts with B that's abundant in the ocean and the resulting chemical interaction leaves you with C, a shell.

I'm afraid this is about as in depth as I can get really, any further details and it becomes a bit blurry, there are millions of components in cells, thousands of protiens, each going about and reacting with the other chemicals the brain has chemically ordered in, if you want a more detailed explanation I suggest finding some books on organic chemistry.

I hope this helps.

Technically according to science they dont, and after seeing how folks are on some internet sites, I am inclined to agree.
:) Hello again giv'nor.

I'd imagine it's difficult to reproduce when you're covered with Swann cells.

I read that if you put retarded kids in a pressurized oxygen tank, it helps develop the brain.

I'm a teacher, and from observing parents and children, I think intelligence is hereditary. Unless the mother does drugs when she's pregnant.

I'll try and make this simple...

As a rule brain cells do not reproduce, but as all rules are meant to be broken we have a hippocampus which reproduces cells that relate to long term memory and learning. Many things, such as age, stress ect can cause this (hippocampus) to shrink, thus reproducing less cells.

The rest of the brain however, once reaching adulthood does not divide and reproduce, instead they replace their components in a similar manner that liver cells do, but your brain does not metabolize fats, this is part of the reason why the brain is largely restricted to glucose and ketone bodies as sources of energy. So the brain needs your liver to metabolize almost everything into foods/building materials it can use. Now using chemical messangers (mRNA) the DNA in the brain cells use these protiens, sugars ect manufactured and sent by the liver to replace damaged parts of cells. In other words the liver sends most of the repairing tools and materials and DNA uses complex chemical messages to say what needs to be done, what needs to go where ect.

I'm afraid this is about as in depth as I can get really, any further details and it becomes a bit blurry, there are millions of components in cells, thousands of protiens, each going about and reacting with the other chemicals the brain has chemically ordered in, if you want a more detailed explanation I suggest finding some books on organic chemistry.

I hope this helps.

It does, thanks.

I'd imagine it's difficult to reproduce when you're covered with Swann cells.

I read that if you put retarded kids in a pressurized oxygen tank, it helps develop the brain.

I'm a teacher, and from observing parents and children, I think intelligence is hereditary. Unless the mother does drugs when she's pregnant.

Hereditary in a biological sense, or do more intelligent parents better educate their children?

Hereditary in a biological sense, or do more intelligent parents better educate their children?
both

It does, thanks.
I added another paragraph in after you read/quoted my last post which gives an example, sort of. The thing about organic chemistry is that we don't know exactly what half (or less than half, depending on how you define 'know') of these things do. :)

both

I'm inclined to agree.

I added another paragraph in after you read/quoted my last post which gives an example, sort of. The thing about organic chemistry is that we don't know exactly what half (or less than half, depending on how you define 'know') of these things do. :)

OK, so is this replacement of cell components exact, or similar to standard cell reproduction - imperfect? Are they only replaced when damaged and, if so, how does this damage occur?

OK, so is this replacement of cell components exact, or similar to standard cell reproduction - imperfect? Are they only replaced when damaged and, if so, how does this damage occur?

In ways it is similar, yet diffrent. The biggest diffrence is that brain cells do not split, but many cells replace damaged components, aged components, or components that have been used and turned into waste. This means that there is less chance of error. When your normal cells split to make two cells, DNA may mutate which usually means the cell will self-disassemble. Sometimes however, these mutations cause nasty things like cancer (that's not to say you can't get cancer in the brain), which is just a confused cell that replicates other confused cells.

Component replacement happens all the time, damaged or undamaged, when a component is old, damaged, 'used up' or turned into waste it is replaced. You can damage brain cells by falling off your bike, drinking alcohol, sleeping, walking, thinking, or just general 'wear and tear' created by the millions of activities your brain engages in every day (like ensuring your heart beats). Your brain cells are being damaged, used and repaired all the time.

Why, may I ask, are you so interested in your brain this evening? No one is unwell I hope...

In ways it is similar, yet diffrent. The biggest diffrence is that brain cells do not split, but many cells replace damaged components, aged components, or components that have been used and turned into waste. This means that there is less chance of error. When your normal cells split to make two cells, DNA may mutate which usually means the cell will self-disassemble. Sometimes however, these mutations cause nasty things like cancer (that's not to say you can't get cancer in the brain), which is just a confused cell that replicates other confused cells.

Component replacement happens all the time, damaged or undamaged, when a component is old, damaged, 'used up' or turned into waste it is replaced. You can damage brain cells by falling off your bike, drinking alcohol, sleeping, walking, thinking, or just general 'wear and tear' created by the millions of activities your brain engages in every day (like ensuring your heart beats). Your brain cells are being damaged, used and repaired all the time.

Why, may I ask, are you so interested in your brain this evening? No one is unwell I hope...

Fascinating. No, no one is unwell that I know. The paradox of identity. It was put to me once that all cells in the body reproduce such that, after 7 years, all cells were replaced. I thought that this was not true for braincells, the most important when discussing identity. If it is true, then we effectively die every seven years, thus full identity cloning in an attempt to attain immortality is plausible - but still impossible. Yet the question remains: Are we contantly cloned and killed (replaced) by a natural biological process?

Fascinating. No, no one is unwell that I know. The paradox of identity. It was put to me once that all cells in the body reproduce such that, after 7 years, all cells were replaced. I thought that this was not true for braincells, the most important when discussing identity. If it is true, then we effectively die every seven years, thus full identity cloning in an attempt to attain immortality is plausible - but still impossible. Yet the question remains: Are we contantly cloned and killed (replaced) by a natural biological process?
Yes of course we are. You don't seem to know what you're talking about - I'm starting to believe that you didn't go to Harvard medical school at at all.

Yes of course we are. You don't seem to know what you're talking about - I'm starting to believe that you didn't go to Harvard medical school at at all.

So am I... maybe there's a logical reason for that. :p

Fascinating. No, no one is unwell that I know. The paradox of identity. It was put to me once that all cells in the body reproduce such that, after 7 years, all cells were replaced. I thought that this was not true for braincells, the most important when discussing identity. If it is true, then we effectively die every seven years, thus full identity cloning in an attempt to attain immortality is plausible - but still impossible. Yet the question remains: Are we contantly cloned and killed (replaced) by a natural biological process?

Ahh, atoms do get around! While no part of you now was part of you seven years ago, the process of replacment is so slow and constant you would not be you without it. We are constantly replacing the old with the new, you are the same, but the parts that make you up are diffrent. How can you differenciate between an atom of carbon and another atom of carbon that replaces it? It would be like if I took a red lego brick from your lego sculpture and replaced it with another red lego brick of the same size and shape. Your lego masterpeice is still the same, but composed of something diffrent! ;)

So am I... maybe there's a logical reason for that. :p
You've got me there. I used to think that chartered accountants were a waste of time, but now that I've found the George Ide Philips Home Care Plus plan, I've settled my arrears, and tripled my turnover. Become part of the George Ide Philips family today!

Ahh, atoms do get around! While no part of you now was part of you seven years ago, the process of replacment is so slow and constant you would not be you without it. We are constantly replacing the old with the new, you are the same, but the parts that make you up are diffrent. How can you differenciate between an atom of carbon and another atom of carbon that replaces it? It would be like if I took a red lego brick from your lego sculpture and replaced it with another red lego brick of the same size and shape. Your lego masterpeice is still the same, but composed of something diffrent! ;)

Indeed. The same, yet different. You're right, the change is so slow that we constanly retain that which is our identity. Perhaps it's praperation for death, being a similar process on a larger scale.

Indeed. The same, yet different. You're right, the change is so slow that we constanly retain that which is our identity. Perhaps it's praperation for death, being a similar process on a larger scale.

But death involves more worms;)

But death involves more worms;)

I think the worms would be the least of our problems. :D

Has anyone ever thought about how weird the concept of memory is, considering our bodies keep replacing it's cells and there's no cells older than 7 years. Doesn't that mean there shouldn't be memories older than 7 years. Cause the cells that consituted those memories have been replaced with new cells. so how do they 'remember' what happened before they were created?

This really does my head in.

Braincells do NOT reproduce once your brain is fully formed. Human brains tend to be physically devoloped in the late teens (which is why under age drinking is a no-no). Despite the fact that your brain cells no longer reproduce, no part of your brain cells are any older than about 8 months as the components are constantly replaced. I have more info, but it would require me consulting my books, would you like more info?
This was thought to be true for quite some time, but new research has shown that new brain cells can grow in certain parts of the brain. Prozac actually speeds the process.

There seems to be some conflict in sources, so does anyone actually know if braincells reproduce?
As far as I know, all cells in the body (except braincells) are replaced completely approximately every seven years. I think the cells responsible for memory reproduce, hense less-than-perfect ability to recollect, but the rest don't.
Anyone care to enlighten me?

Neurons in the brain do not reproduce. (Neither do heart cells, skeletal muscle cells, or many other terminally differentiated cells). However, some areas, such as heart muscle and neurons, do not have stem cell populations to replace them if they are lost.

Now, there *are* cells within the brain which can be replaced. These are "helper" cells such as astrocytes and glial cells. These cells do not perform neuronal function, but can aid the neurons that are left and prevent further neuronal death in the case of injury. (Usually, with a brain injury, you have some cells that die right away which then give off chemicals leading to further cell death and so on...)

Dendrites and Axons continue to reproduce indefinitely, although at a very slow pace. For a long time scientists were under the impression that the brain stopped its growth completely, but this was found to be wrong, and there might even be ways to accelerate this cell reproduction and allow for culturing of brain tissue or regeneration of the brain. Really exciting new possibilities in that.

Neither dendrites nor axons are brain cells. They are parts of brain cells.

Crap I hope they regenerate themselves,considering the years of abuse I've brought upon myself with alcohol! No wonder I constantly missplace my keys n other sorts.
Self induced alzheimers here I come! Peace

Neurons in the brain do not reproduce. (Neither do heart cells, skeletal muscle cells, or many other terminally differentiated cells). However, some areas, such as heart muscle and neurons, do not have stem cell populations to replace them if they are lost.

Now, there *are* cells within the brain which can be replaced. These are "helper" cells such as astrocytes and glial cells. These cells do not perform neuronal function, but can aid the neurons that are left and prevent further neuronal death in the case of injury. (Usually, with a brain injury, you have some cells that die right away which then give off chemicals leading to further cell death and so on...)
I read that neurons in some regions of the brain are replaced. I think it was an article in an issue of Scentific American last year.

I read that neurons in some regions of the brain are replaced. I think it was an article in an issue of Scentific American last year.

Everything I have read that suggested this found that it was actually astrocytes or glial cells. However, that is not to say that I am the absolute on this, or that further research has not found differently.

I do know that, in most regions of the brain, neuronal death is permanent.

... if so, how does this damage occur?
years of cocaine and alcohol

http://www.newyorkslime.com/bush-moron-chart.gif

Also note that those who have read studies (I need to find these, but I don't dispute their existence) stating that neurons are created have not suggested that neurons themselves reproduce. Neurons are terminally differentiated cells. As such, they do not reproduce. That is not to say that other, more stem-like cells cannot differentiate into new neurons in certain portions of the brain, only that the neurons themselves do not divide to make new neurons.

Also note that those who have read studies (I need to find these, but I don't dispute their existence) stating that neurons are created have not suggested that neurons themselves reproduce. Neurons are terminally differentiated cells. As such, they do not reproduce. That is not to say that other, more stem-like cells cannot differentiate into new neurons in certain portions of the brain, only that the neurons themselves do not divide to make new neurons.
I beleive that that's what the article I read said.

QUOTE=Demented Hamsters]Has anyone ever thought about how weird the concept of memory is, considering our bodies keep replacing it's cells and there's no cells older than 7 years. Doesn't that mean there shouldn't be memories older than 7 years. Cause the cells that consituted those memories have been replaced with new cells. so how do they 'remember' what happened before they were created?

This really does my head in.[/QUOTE]

They reproduce asexually, therefore they are an exact copy (as close as possible) and retain the memories. But, due to imperfections in the copying process, memory is imperfect. (Exept in the VERY rare case of a 'photographic memory') - does anyone understand this: Someone I know used to be able to recite every word with page references in large volumes of law books. He could also read ~1 page per second. This is a true photographic memory. It cannot be obtained, you're born with it.

One day I will work on a way to stimulate indefinite brain growth. Neuron Growth Termination hormones will be genetically negated by eliminating the codons that produce them.
Of course the skull would have to be removed to accomodate for the sustained growth. With luck I could even find a way to promote increased neural connectivity until the massive brain was one enormous jumble of implosive thought processes.
I could then connect thoughtrodes to its communicative pathways and let the supernaturally sentient product rule all of mankind.

Oh yes, I will make the first cymek. MUAHAHA!

Has anyone ever thought about how weird the concept of memory is, considering our bodies keep replacing it's cells and there's no cells older than 7 years. Doesn't that mean there shouldn't be memories older than 7 years. Cause the cells that consituted those memories have been replaced with new cells. so how do they 'remember' what happened before they were created?

This really does my head in.

Memories are from the way the cells are connected, not the cells themselves.