NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so I was browsing the Libertarian Party's site and I came across this (http://www.lp.org/action/censusboycott.html) interesting page about how citizens should boycott the census. Here's the clip from the page that struck me as most powerful:

The U.S. Constitution says the purpose of the Census is to make an enumeration; that is, to take an accurate count of Americans for the purpose of apportioning Congressional districts.

But the federal government has gone far beyond that Constitutional mandate, and uses the Census to ask dozens of probing questions, such as the color of your skin, the number of toilets in your home, your disabilities, and even the number of cars you have.

In fact, the long form asks 53 questions, which is 52 more than the Constitution requires.

Libertarians believe that these questions violate your privacy and will be used as the basis for expanding the size, power and cost of government. So we're urging people to answer just one question: How many people live in your home?

The more times I read this, the more I agree ... what do you all think of this?

The more times I read this, the more I agree ... what do you all think of this?
I think that it's ridiculous. Though I have my doubts with the current administration in the U.S., the census is not used for any detrimental purposes. It is purely an information-gathering tool. If libertarians are for boycotting the census, then they're never going to get anywhere.

Ok, so I was browsing the Libertarian Party's site and I came across this (http://www.lp.org/action/censusboycott.html) interesting page about how citizens should boycott the census. Here's the clip from the page that struck me as most powerful:



The more times I read this, the more I agree ... what do you all think of this?

I'm no American, but I agree also.

So the number of toilets in my home is directly proportional to how much the government hates me? :confused:

So the number of toilets in my home is directly proportional to how much the government hates me? :confused:
It just kinda seems stupid for the government to want to know these types of things....

I'm sorry but I don't think this is an invasion of privacy. I think this is a part of life in the developed world. Even though I'm a Libertarian, I hope that the party doesn't take this too far.

I think demographic questions are relevant.

Such as, religion, ethnicity...

"Cutting off nose to spite face"

Ever open a kids almanac and it says Americans have an average of 3.14159265 telephones per house. Now you know where those statistics come from.

A scary part about submitting to the census is that it gives anyone access to criminal records and loads of other information. Just go to phonebook.com and for a medium fee, you can get people's private info, all thanks to the census.

I filled out the 2000 census for my family, which was fun. When I get my own, I'm going to say I lost it and get another one. Then I'll send in a screwed up version like Ima Witasz Ethnicity:African.

Though I have my doubts with the current administration in the U.S., the census is not used for any detrimental purposes.it was used to track down Japanese-Americans during WWII for internment camps. It's currently used to decide which communities will get more federal money because they have the correct racial distribution and which communities will get less federal money because they have the wrong racial distribution. It is used to prove that certain religions are superior to others. It is used for gerrymandering. And tax dollars are wasted on paying people to collect and record the useless information

I'm sorry but I don't think this is an invasion of privacy. I think this is a part of life in the developed world. Even though I'm a Libertarian, I hope that the party doesn't take this too far.

Fellow Libertarian:

There are SO many things wrong with the census process today, and all of them go against the stated beliefs of the Libertarian Party.

One problem lies with the fact that it's illegal NOT to answer all of the questions.

THAT'S fucked up.

There is absolutely no reason why I should be penalized if I don't feel like filling out an unwanted questionaire about my life. We get to hang up on telemarketers, and toss out other surveys, why not this one? And why are my taxes funding this kind of invasion of privacy?

Victimless crimes.

The government is supposed to work for us, remember? Not us work for the government. The government is not there to keep tabs on us or our lives, either.

Just make it up. When it comes to questions like 'religion' put Jedi, thats what I did on the UK census!

i think its a perfect example of how, while the libertarians seem to make good sense, they are actually nutz.

Wow, so many paranoid people.

I asked someone I know who's filled out a census before (well, not the last one here in Canada, since my dad handed it to me and told me to fill it out), and they brought up an interesting point.

While many of you liberatarians see it as intrusive and rightfully believe it could have malicious intent, I want you to stop for a minute and consider the following.

You have certain professions that aren't as quickly filled as others.

When you look at the stats from the most recent census, you can see that the average age of a vet (pet doc) is about 45, and you know that based on this census, that most of them are close to this age, and that means that they will be retiring within ten years. You also know that fewer young people are going in... So, from there, you can assess your need to get more people into certain professions based on such demographics.

Or, let's use a better example, let's say, that from the census we learn that there are fewer doctors living in smaller towns than in big cities, and the doctors in the small towns are close to retiring and their younger counterparts are leaving for the city. We can use this to try and counter the problem before it becomes a crisis.

Also, let's consider, you're doing a research paper for school and your teacher says she wants you to compare the most recent three census. Once again, I fail to see how this is an intrusion into privacy.

Last I checked, the census only asked for statistics and asked nothing of names or even your address. It only sent out the forms based on postal/zip code.

I think the liberatarians are overreacting.

Perhaps make it optional to answer those questions or some shit like that? I don't know and I really don't care although I do understand your perspective on personal privacy. Government doesn't need to know the color of your skin, does it?

Wow, so many paranoid people.

I asked someone I know who's filled out a census before (well, not the last one here in Canada, since my dad handed it to me and told me to fill it out), and they brought up an interesting point.

While many of you liberatarians see it as intrusive and rightfully believe it could have malicious intent, I want you to stop for a minute and consider the following.

You have certain professions that aren't as quickly filled as others.

When you look at the stats from the most recent census, you can see that the average age of a vet (pet doc) is about 45, and you know that based on this census, that most of them are close to this age, and that means that they will be retiring within ten years. You also know that fewer young people are going in... So, from there, you can assess your need to get more people into certain professions based on such demographics.

Or, let's use a better example, let's say, that from the census we learn that there are fewer doctors living in smaller towns than in big cities, and the doctors in the small towns are close to retiring and their younger counterparts are leaving for the city. We can use this to try and counter the problem before it becomes a crisis.

Also, let's consider, you're doing a research paper for school and your teacher says she wants you to compare the most recent three census. Once again, I fail to see how this is an intrusion into privacy.

Last I checked, the census only asked for statistics and asked nothing of names or even your address. It only sent out the forms based on postal/zip code.

I think the liberatarians are overreacting.


All of your examples have "the government will fix this for us" written all over them.

The government isn't there to fix societal or market issues. They're there for defense of the nation and the citizens in it. That's it. At least that's all that is in the US Constitution. They're not there to run people's lives. You think that the information just goes into a bank to not be used by politicians or the department of justice for their own ends? Time for a reality check.

Fewer doctors in smaller communities: What can the communities themselves do to attract doctors, rather than take my money to fix their issue? It's THEIR issue. Not mine. Not the federal government's. Every city is not mandated to have a doctor. If they don't have one, and want one, it's up to the community to decide what's best--not a government that has no contact nor understanding of the dynamics of the area.

You're also skipping the "force" factor. The government is forcing me to fill out something I don't wish to fill out. There is no crime for not answering a question that doesn't have a warrant or subpoena behind it. It's a waste of my time and my money (to have the damn forms printed in the first place and to have a group of people saddled with the responsiblity of enforcing the penalties).

School paper? There's a reason to keep millions of dollars pumping through a divisional machine....

Helps to have researched the law. The only legal requirement is to tell them the total number of people residing in the household, and the total number of them who are voters. That *is* a legal requirement; none of the other questions are. Also, you do not have to fill out anything in writing, verbally telling them the numbers is ok.

Last time the census guy came around, I politely told him that and gave him the appropriate numbers. When he tried to argue, I showed him a copy of the law with the important bits underlined and he left scratching his head. A week later, I got a pair of guys who threatened me with legal action (good cop/bad cop). I told them to piss off and threatened to sue them right back for tresspass and harassment, since I had already fulfilled *all* my legal obligations under the census law. Never heard from them again.

Your mileage might vary, I think this depends on where you are, but you're extremely unlikely to get hassled more than that since census non-compliance is at 30% or so.

Helps to have researched the law. The only legal requirement is to tell them the total number of people residing in the household, and the total number of them who are voters. That *is* a legal requirement; none of the other questions are. Also, you do not have to fill out anything in writing, verbally telling them the numbers is ok.

Last time the census guy came around, I politely told him that and gave him the appropriate numbers. When he tried to argue, I showed him a copy of the law with the important bits underlined and he left scratching his head. A week later, I got a pair of guys who threatened me with legal action (good cop/bad cop). I told them to piss off and threatened to sue them right back for tresspass and harassment, since I had already fulfilled *all* my legal obligations under the census law. Never heard from them again.

Your mileage might vary, I think this depends on where you are, but you're extremely unlikely to get hassled more than that since census non-compliance is at 30% or so.


This IS good to know. Thanks!