NationStates Jolt Archive

At the outset of the second world war Winston Churchill made what is at the top of the short list of the greatest oration recorded, in which he exhorted the people of Great Britain:

"Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties
and so bear ourselves
that if the british empire and its commonwealth last for a thousand years
men will still say
-this-
was their finest hour."

Was the second world war (or more specifically for certain nit-pickers the battle of britain) truly the finest hour for the british (edit:valid point there)?

I think so, I think that their conduct and bravery and leadership was unimpeachable, perhaps the best of any people in modern history.

Was the second world war truly the finest hour for the english?

1. Surely 'their finest hour' refers to the Battle of Britain, not WWII as a whole?

2. Why particularly the English as opposed to the British/Commonwelath/Scots/Welsh/Northern Irish?

Don't ya mean 60 years? or 64 years for the battle of Britian. You are living in 1995!

Was the second world war truly the finest hour for the english?

Damn straight. The RAF kicked major ass! :cool:

2. Why particularly the English as opposed to the British/Commonwelath/Scots/Welsh/Northern Irish?I think a lot of Americans equate "English" with anyone from the United Kingdom. I know it's wrong, but even I do it.

Damn straight. The RAF kicked major ass! :cool:
Yeah they certainly did. Spitfires are awesome.

Spitfires are awesome.

Yay! for Hurricanes: they were the workhorses.

...as if there was ever any serious threat of Operation Sealion actually being carried out according to schedule.

1. Surely 'their finest hour' refers to the Battle of Britain, not WWII as a whole?

2. Why particularly the English as opposed to the British/Commonwelath/Scots/Welsh/Northern Irish?

Why bother with stupid semantics.


Seriously?

Don't ya mean 60 years? or 64 years for the battle of Britian. You are living in 1995!


Why bother with stupid nit picking?

Seriously?

Why bother with stupid semantics.


Seriously?
because its a massive insult to those from scotland, wales, northern ireland and the rest of the commonwealth who fought and died in the Battle of Britain.

Why bother with stupid nit picking?

Seriously?

If the RAF had possessed this kind of attitude of 'what difference does ten years either way make?' the outcome of the Battle of Britain would have been very different. No need to scramble for the waiting planes, a leisurely jog wouldn't even have been required. ;)

because its a massive insult to those from scotland, wales, northern ireland and the rest of the commonwealth who fought and died in the Battle of Britain.


I edited that part and yes yes it was an error to put english.

Why bother with stupid nit picking?

Seriously?
My nit picking is a serious psychological disorder. I ran out of medication.

I edited that part and yes yes it was an error to put english.
ok

While we're at it, lets not forget the Czechs and the Poles that fought in it: the Poles certainly had their own separate units, I'm not sure if the Czechs did.

EDIT: come to think of it, we might as well tip our hats to the American volunteers and the Free French pilots too. Anyone else I've forgotten?

If the RAF had possessed this kind of attitude of 'what difference does ten years either way make?' the outcome of the Battle of Britain would have been very different. No need to scramble for the waiting planes, a leisurely jog wouldn't even have been required. ;)

We should then be thankful indeed that world war two was not fought in internet message boards where idlers disagree for the simple sake of contradicting others.

Where it would then seem, if I was the RAF and Bodies Without Organs was the Luftwaffe then great britain and all the world would have fallen to hitler.

At the outset of the second world war Winston Churchill made what is at the top of the short list of the greatest oration recorded, in which he exhorted the people of Great Britain:

"Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties
and so bear ourselves
that if the british empire and its commonwealth last for a thousand years
men will still say
-this-
was their finest hour."

Was the second world war truly the finest hour for the english?

I think so, I think that their conduct and bravery and leadership was unimpeachable, perhaps the best of any people in modern history.

Sure it may have been their finest hour, but look how many of England's sons died fighting Churchill's war; not to mention Americans, Canadians, French, Australian, etc. It was Churchill who declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Hitler had no intentions of attacking the British, he respected them as an Aryan-like people. Thats why Hitler allowed the British to escape at Dunkirk, and thats why he sent Rudolf Hess to negotiate a peace settlement. The Battle of Britain did not have to occur, nor did any of Britain's involvement. Sure, Germany still would have gone to war against Russia.....but that has nothing to do with Britain.
Churchill cared more about protecting his colonies than the lives of his people. Churchill was an evil man, a terrible leader, and should be remembered as a war monger.

Sure it may have been their finest hour, but look how many of England's sons died fighting Churchill's war; not to mention Americans, Canadians, French, Australian, etc. It was Churchill who declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Hitler had no intentions of attacking the British, he respected them as an Aryan-like people. Thats why Hitler allowed the British to escape at Dunkirk, and thats why he sent Rudolf Hess to negotiate a peace settlement. The Battle of Britain did not have to occur, nor did any of Britain's involvement. Sure, Germany still would have gone to war against Russia.....but that has nothing to do with Britain.
Churchill cared more about protecting his colonies than the lives of his people. Churchill was an evil man, a terrible leader, and should be remembered as a war monger.
sigh

Churchill wasnt Prime Minister until 1940.

get your facts straight

Neville Chamberlain declared war to honour (heard of that?) an agreement made with Poland.

Where it would then seem, if I was the RAF and Bodies Without Organs was the Luftwaffe then great britain and all the world would have fallen to hitler.

;)

Ah, no I, the Luftwaffe, might have won the Battle of Britain, but I would have watched in horror as the Operation Sea Lion plans unfolded in their inevitable disarray and ultimate failure. NG wins the final victory.

Sure it may have been their finest hour, but look how many of England's sons died fighting Churchill's war; not to mention Americans, Canadians, French, Australian, etc. It was Churchill who declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Hitler had no intentions of attacking the British, he respected them as an Aryan-like people. Thats why Hitler allowed the British to escape at Dunkirk, and thats why he sent Rudolf Hess to negotiate a peace settlement. The Battle of Britain did not have to occur, nor did any of Britain's involvement. Sure, Germany still would have gone to war against Russia.....but that has nothing to do with Britain.
Churchill cared more about protecting his colonies than the lives of his people. Churchill was an evil man, a terrible leader, and should be remembered as a war monger.


I love the "rudolf hess to negotiate a peace settlement!"

hahaha!

Churchill wasnt Prime Minister until 1940.

Ok, my bad. But then Chamberlain had no reason to involve the British Commonwealth with Germany's affairs.

sigh

Churchill wasnt Prime Minister until 1940.

get your facts straight

Neville Chamberlain declared war to honour (heard of that?) an agreement made with Poland.


You missed that he's joking.

Hess parachuted into scottland so that he could negotiate with the monarch for peace or something and a farmer caught him and they threw him in the tower of london.

He was a lunatic.

Ok, my bad. But then Chamberlain had no reason to involve the British Commonwealth with Germany's affairs.
Yes he did.

He had promised Poland he would defend it. Theres this thing called Sovereignty, and Chamberlain obviously believed in it. He also probably believed that a balance of power was the best way to maintain Europe.

It was directly in the UKs interests to go to war to stop Germany, apart from the fact they were honouring an promise

Thats why Hitler allowed the British to escape at Dunkirk, and thats why he sent Rudolf Hess to negotiate a peace settlement.

Evidence for Hitler sending Hess to negotiate a settlement, rather than Hess using his own initiative?

Churchill was an evil man, a terrible leader, and should be remembered as a war monger.


"Hitler was a better dancer than Churchill; Hitler was a better dresser than Churchill; Hitler was a better painter than Churchill: he could paint a whole apartment in one afternoon, two coats."

Hess parachuted into scottland so that he could negotiate with the monarch for peace or something and a farmer caught him and they threw him in the tower of london.

He was a lunatic.

Hess was an innocent man. The Allies locked him up for over half his life for no reason. Talk about injustice.

You missed that he's joking.

Hess parachuted into scottland so that he could negotiate with the monarch for peace or something and a farmer caught him and they threw him in the tower of london.

He was a lunatic.
Thats not what i had an issue with.

Hess parachuted into Scotland without Hitler's permission to seek peace, he was arrested an put in prison.

Hess was an innocent man. The Allies locked him up for over half his life for no reason. Talk about injustice.

And there was no injustice under Hitler?

And there was no injustice under Hitler?

I never said there wasnt

Their finest hour? Without a doubt.

Run, fly to live, live to fly, do or die, won't you
Run, fly to live, live to fly, Aces High!

Don't you love how I can work Iron Maiden into any conversation?

Wow, I'm sad...

I never said there wasnt

So why make such a big deal about one person being treated humanely and imprisoned? If he had been sent back to the Fatherland he would have been lucky to have got off with only being shot.

Evidence for Hitler sending Hess to negotiate a settlement, rather than Hess using his own initiative?

Britain isnt releasing the official documents on Hess's flight until 2017, then we'll see once and for all what really happened.

Evidence for Hitler sending Hess to negotiate a settlement, rather than Hess using his own initiative?




"Hitler was a better dancer than Churchill; Hitler was a better dresser than Churchill; Hitler was a better painter than Churchill: he could paint a whole apartment in one afternoon, two coats."


You are aware that he is trolling arent you?

I never said there wasnt
How come you Nazis are so complainy? Its always, if only the mean Allies hadn't stopped us if we would have had our 1,000 year Reich. Hitler was the moron who decided that the Luftwaffa should bomb the crap out of London instead of the RAF's airfields, which is why the Germans lost the Battle of Brittain.

So why make such a big deal about one person being treated humanely and imprisoned? If he had been sent back to the Fatherland he would have been lucky to have got off with only being shot.

I disagree, and I'll bet my life on it that I've researched the Third Reich more than yourself.

Hitler was the moron who decided that the Luftwaffa should bomb the crap out of London instead of the RAF's airfields, which is why the Germans lost the Battle of Brittain.

I agree with you.......except for the moron part.

You are aware that he is trolling arent you?

Oh, certainly, lets just hope we don't have a repeat of last night where a load of anti-Nazis flew off the handle and started flaming all around themselves and ended up getting official warnings - besides I am fascinated by exactly which alternate timeline THJ is posting from: in an earlier thread he had Churchill authorising the bombing of Berlin prior to Hitler authorising the bombing of London.

I disagree, and I'll bet my life on it that I've researched the Third Reich more than yourself.

Why do you keep on making claims that have no grounding in facts then: such as our earlier encounter where you claimed that Churchill authorised bombing of Berlin prior to Hitler authorising bombing of London, when it was the other way round, or your recent spurious claim that it was Hitler that sent Hess to the UK?

Oh, certainly, lets just hope we don't have a repeat of last night where a load of anti-Nazis flew off the handle and started flaming all around themselves and ended up getting official warnings - besides I am fascinated by exactly which alternate timeline THJ is posting from: in an earlier thread he had Churchill authorising the bombing of Berlin prior to Hitler authorising the bombing of London.


Ah,

In any case Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill was the greatest man of the 20th century.

Its always, if only the mean Allies hadn't stopped us if we would have had our 1,000 year Reich.

Oh, be fair, they did manage to last ... what, about 12 years? - about two thirds the length of time that the Ramones managed.

In any case Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill was the greatest man of the 20th century.

I'll spare my personal political views on Churchill for another time.

I agree with you.......except for the moron part.
Yeah not so much a moron as too arrogant and prone to micromanaging the war. I don't even really know why they even bothered messing with Britain in 1940. Even though, Britain had declared war on Germany it wasn't like they were a great threat, except for their navy. If I was Hitler I would have focused 100 percent on the USSR.

I disagree, and I'll bet my life on it that I've researched the Third Reich more than yourself.

Oh I wouldn't do that if I were you. I've been invovled with a few WWII threads with BWO and his knowledge is rather vast...

Yeah not so much a moron as too arrogant and prone to micromanaging the war.

It was for this reason - Hitler's inept micro-managing of the war - that the Biritsh secret service did not seriously pursue attempts to assasinate him in the closing stages of the war: by the turn of 1945 they considered him to be a greater liability to the Axis than a threat to the Allies.

Oh I wouldn't do that if I were you. I've been invovled with a few WWII threads with BWO and his knowledge is rather vast...


Plus he doesnt indulge in fantasies like "hitler dispatched hess to negotiate and that mean old bloodthirsty troll churchill threw him in the tower"

I agree with you.......except for the moron part.

Moron? Well I dated a german gal whose granddad was part of the 6th Army at Stalingrad(he got wounded as they were going in. He lived but all his friends died); he said Hitler was a moron. Well in so many words.....

It was for this reason - Hitler's inept micro-managing of the war - that the Biritsh secret service did not seriously pursue attempts to assasinate him in the closing stages of the war: by the turn of 1945 they considered him to be a greater liability to the Axis than a threat to the Allies.
Didn't somebody try to suitcase bomb him at some point? If I recall they almost got him too. Saw it on the history channel a few years ago. Can't remember much about the incident though.

Didn't somebody try to suitcase bomb him at some point? If I recall they almost got him too. Saw it on the history channel a few years ago. Can't remember much about the incident though.

That was the Officers' Plot - carried out by high-ranking German officers in the hope of killing Hitler, and IIRC then being able to sue for peace with the Allies. As far as the British assassination plans that I was talking about earlier, the fear was that if Hitler was removed from the picture, then somebody with real military expertise rather than just panache (I'll give him that) might have seized the reins and prolonged the war for a matter of months.

Yeah they certainly did. Spitfires are awesome.
Nah, the pilots were the awesome ones.

Was the second world war (or more specifically for certain nit-pickers the battle of britain) truly the finest hour for the british (edit:valid point there)?


To return (briefly I'm sure), to the original point of the topic. I personally believe that the creation of the NHS in 1946 was our greatest achievement.

WWII and especially the Battle of Britain were pretty damn close, but I chose the NHS as fighting WWII, however right, was a necessity, whereas creating the NHS was a true act of humantarian magnificence.