NationStates Jolt Archive

After reading several threads full of shameless Moore-promotion with healthy dose of mindless Bush-bashing, it suddenly occurred to me how ironic it is that Moore-proponents are the ones who are truly brainwashed. I'm not talking about a little bit of enthusiastic zeal: this is close to the real thing. It hurts my eyes to see near-blasphemous claims that Moore is "a true American hero" or that he is "the voice of truth," when a)he clearly is not either of these and b)when asked to support such falsehoods, the proclaimers in question are able only to repeat themselves. Regardless of your political affiliations, it's pretty clear that many of these Moore people are unable to face reality and its difficulties and instead revert to believing we live in a world where everything is a conspiracy and that people cannot control their own lives. Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes, because of course the media wouldn't tell us anything like that would they now? I detect some rambling, so I will stop now and get to the point: Please stop the madness and quit mindlessly supporting the voice that says what you want to hear.

After reading several threads full of shameless Moore-promotion with healthy dose of mindless Bush-bashing, it suddenly occurred to me how ironic it is that Moore-proponents are the ones who are truly brainwashed. I'm not talking about a little bit of enthusiastic zeal: this is close to the real thing. It hurts my eyes to see near-blasphemous claims that Moore is "a true American hero" or that he is "the voice of truth," when a)he clearly is not either of these and b)when asked to support such falsehoods, the proclaimers in question are able only to repeat themselves. Regardless of your political affiliations, it's pretty clear that many of these Moore people are unable to face reality and its difficulties and instead revert to believing we live in a world where everything is a conspiracy and that people cannot control their own lives. Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes, because of course the media wouldn't tell us anything like that would they now? I detect some rambling, so I will stop now and get to the point: Please stop the madness and quit mindlessly supporting the voice that says what you want to hear.

I propose a toast to EmoBuddy! :)

After reading several threads full of shameless Moore-promotion with healthy dose of mindless Bush-bashing, it suddenly occurred to me how ironic it is that Moore-proponents are the ones who are truly brainwashed. I'm not talking about a little bit of enthusiastic zeal: this is close to the real thing. It hurts my eyes to see near-blasphemous claims that Moore is "a true American hero" or that he is "the voice of truth," when a)he clearly is not either of these and b)when asked to support such falsehoods, the proclaimers in question are able only to repeat themselves. Regardless of your political affiliations, it's pretty clear that many of these Moore people are unable to face reality and its difficulties and instead revert to believing we live in a world where everything is a conspiracy and that people cannot control their own lives. Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes, because of course the media wouldn't tell us anything like that would they now? I detect some rambling, so I will stop now and get to the point: Please stop the madness and quit mindlessly supporting the voice that says what you want to hear.
and i can feel the light from teh candle attracting the hypocrites if you arnt one

Not a fan of more myself, but lets face it, I hate bush more. Surely saying that "Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes" is pretty much evidence enough that all just belive what we are told (thus making Moore correct, if no better than the media itself)

Here is a link to a Kopel report of 59 "mistakes" in Farenheit 911. Don't expect it to be read, or acknowledged, by anyone who doesn't support the current administration.

http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf

Something else I have found interesting on these boards...whenever I source the 9/11 Commission Report to back up a statement I've made, it is always ignored.

Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes ....

*I* don't! :D

and i can feel the light from teh candle attracting the hypocrites if you arnt one
Oh I'm a hypocrite, no doubt about it, I just try to be less of a hypocrite than the people I'm trying to rip apart at the seams. :)

*I* don't! :D
You DON'T!!!!?????!! (We must eradicate this one) :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

After reading several threads full of shameless Moore-promotion with healthy dose of mindless Bush-bashing, it suddenly occurred to me how ironic it is that Moore-proponents are the ones who are truly brainwashed. I'm not talking about a little bit of enthusiastic zeal: this is close to the real thing. It hurts my eyes to see near-blasphemous claims that Moore is "a true American hero" or that he is "the voice of truth," when a)he clearly is not either of these and b)when asked to support such falsehoods, the proclaimers in question are able only to repeat themselves. Regardless of your political affiliations, it's pretty clear that many of these Moore people are unable to face reality and its difficulties and instead revert to believing we live in a world where everything is a conspiracy and that people cannot control their own lives. Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes, because of course the media wouldn't tell us anything like that would they now? I detect some rambling, so I will stop now and get to the point: Please stop the madness and quit mindlessly supporting the voice that says what you want to hear.

You rail against a major media figure, who you say is brainwashing us, yet you say that "Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth."

Pot Kettle Black?

"Please stop the madness and quit mindlessly supporting the voice that says what you want to hear"

I would ask you to do the same, but I'm not sure you would hear me from your pulpit.

Oh I'm a hypocrite, no doubt about it, I just try to be less of a hypocrite than the people I'm trying to rip apart at the seams. :)
by this topic and that post you are no better, if not worse than, the people you are attacking

grow the fuck up

I propose a toast to EmoBuddy! :)
A fine old chap! Cheers! *Clinks glass, drinks, acts jovial*

Now moore has his problems (and boy does he have BIG problems - definately a few sandwichs short of a picknick... and the crisps... and the hamper and blanket too for that matter). And a Moron can be just as stubburn and stupid as a Bushite - but his propergander is definately the lesser of two evils.

Anyone named emobuddy can't really be all that clever.

Ah, what if the applied standard given to Moore was applied to Bush.

What a dream that would be.

Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes, because of course the media wouldn't tell us anything like that would they now? .

Well... name one big US news tv station, one big US newspaper and one big US radiostation that is objective and not biassed (right, left, Christian etc.) then ?

Then look at the other big stations/papers etc. and tell me honestly if you think the majority isn't biassed and truly provides "fair and balanced" news.

Ah, what if the applied the standard given to Moore was applied to Bush.

What a dream that would be.

i love you

Pro-Moore threads? Where! Lemme see 'em! So far all I've seen are the virulent anti-Moore threads attacking him at every personal level. Sheesh...if you hate him so much, why keep giving him such publicity? Dummies. (sorry if I cause offense to any mannequins or wooden puppets on this forum; I really do appreciate the great work you're all doing!)

Go EmoBuddy! You can believe anythign you want, just don't mindlessly bash people and be able to back up what you're saying.

You rail against a major media figure, who you say is brainwashing us, yet you say that "Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth."

Pot Kettle Black?

"Please stop the madness and quit mindlessly supporting the voice that says what you want to hear"

I would ask you to do the same, but I'm not sure you would hear me from your pulpit.
Ok, I'll quote his own site:
Taking a quote out of context, deriding daily bureaucratic/diplomatic occurences as evil plottings of the government:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=1013
"People don't like Bush, so he MUST be bad" (According to our biased poll, that is):
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=1014
Look, that warmonger Bush is ready to invade another country!:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=995

Pray tell, what voice am I supporting?

Ok, I'll quote his own site:
Taking a quote out of context, deriding daily bureaucratic occurences as evil plottings of the government: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=1013
"People don't like Bush, so he MUST be bad" (According to our biased poll, that is): http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=1014
Look, that warmonger Bush is ready to invade another country!: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=995

Pray tell, what voice am I supporting?
oh please, if tkaing things said by politicians out of context accoutns to bad logic, some one put kerry if office because there was so much taking everything he said out o context and distorting it for mudslinging it wasnt funny. and then consider the whole point of bush getting elected was soundbites
mmm out of contextity

Ok, I'll quote his own site:
Taking a quote out of context, deriding daily bureaucratic occurences as evil plottings of the government: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=1013
"People don't like Bush, so he MUST be bad" (According to our biased poll, that is): http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=1014
Look, that warmonger Bush is ready to invade another country!: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=995

Pray tell, what voice am I supporting?
You do realise that your links show us news articles written by ACTUAL news agencies and NOT by Michael Moore?

Anyone named emobuddy can't really be all that clever.
This is pretty hypocritical.. But yea, well said.

Anyone named emobuddy can't really be all that clever.
Let us listen to the all-knowing newts! Surely, they can solve all of our amphibian-related woes!

Let us listen to the all-knowing newts! Surely, they can solve all of our amphibian-related woes!
Seriously....are you rejecting the new on Moore's site just because he endorses it? Again...you realise he didn't actually write it?

You do realise that your links show us news articles written by ACTUAL news agencies and NOT by Michael Moore?

Yes, I was wanting to point that out. We were linked to articles from the BBC, the Associated Press, and Reuters, which are all very, very well respected news agencies.

Let us listen to the all-knowing newts! Surely, they can solve all of our amphibian-related woes!
By the way, ad hominem undermines your position very quickly.

You do realise that your links show us news articles written by ACTUAL news agencies and NOT by Michael Moore?
[1]These are liberal news agencies
[2]He selects only articles that are poorly written and support his cause. (So unbiased...)

By the way, ad hominem undermines your position very quickly.
Huh? Not an expert on Latin phrases...

Let us listen to the all-knowing newts! Surely, they can solve all of our amphibian-related woes!

At least newts listen to good music. Like real punk. Not emo bullshit. Punk is all about not being a brain washed moron and standing up against the opressive government, which you obviously don't understand. Punk is about freedom of speech, which Micheal Moore so freely uses. Thats why so many people hate him because he uses his rights as an American should. So just sit there and listen to New found Glory or whatever.

[1]These are liberal news agencies
[2]He selects only articles that are poorly written and support his cause. (So unbiased...)

Would you like for me to link you to some Fox news articles that are pulled from the AP or Reuters? Maybe some on the Drudge Report?

Huh? Not an expert on Latin phrases...
No prob:

Main Entry: 1ad ho·mi·nem
Pronunciation: (')ad-'hä-m&-"nem, -n&m
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin, literally, to the person
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2 : marked by an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

[1]These are liberal news agencies
[2]He selects only articles that are poorly written and support his cause. (So unbiased...)

Really ? Then please answer the questions I asked in post 15 then.. seems all the more relevant now :)

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7984360&postcount=15

Really ? Then please answer the questions I asked in post 15 then.. seems all the more relevant now :)

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7984360&postcount=15
We are breathless in anticipation, Emo...

At least newts listen to good music. Like real punk. Not emo bullshit. Punk is all about not being a brain washed moron and standing up against the opressive government, which you obviously don't understand. Punk is about freedom of speech, which Micheal Moore so freely uses. Thats why so many people hate him because he uses his rights as an American should. So just sit there and listen to New found Glory or whatever.
[1]Newts? I don't think they even understand what music is, much less listen to it.
[2]I hate emo - if you look at my nation, the point is that I'm mocking it.
[3]Punk in general is fairly shitty, uncreative genre of music, with a couple of exceptions, such as The Clash, The Ramones, etc. (I should also mention that a lot of punk IS emo...)
[4]In spite of how much I destest Michael Moore, this thread is about people who mindlessly follow him. I have no problem with him expressing his views, but I'm just as free as he is to use my right to free speech and tell everybody what a brainless jackass he is.

I think Moore is an excellent film maker and not a bad author. Of course we cant take everything he says at face value. What he writes (and produces) are pieces that support his point of view. No one has ever claimed otherwise and no one has ever pretended that what he writes is unbiased. What upsets me more is people who claim that documentaries are supposed to be unbiased. Those people are confusing news with documentaries. Documentaries are almost always biased becuase they are designed to explore a particular point of view. For example, the acclaimed documentary "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" attempts to show that Kennedy was assassinated as part of a conspiracy and not by a lone gunman. The documentary "Supersize Me" attempts to show that fast food consumption is damaging to your health. The documentary shown on CNN recently, "Defending America" had the goal of showing that more still needs to be done. Documentaries almost always have the goal of exploring a certain point of view and they do not need to be balanced. Michael Moore is an outstanding film maker and writer.

Well... name one big US news tv station, one big US newspaper and one big US radiostation that is objective and not biassed (right, left, Christian etc.) then ?

Then look at the other big stations/papers etc. and tell me honestly if you think the majority isn't biassed and truly provides "fair and balanced" news.
Obviously, no news source is totally unbiased - did you really think I'd say something that stupid? There is, however a difference between bias & oppression.

PS I like NPR despite my conservative/Libertarian views.

[1]Newts? I don't think they even understand what music is, much less listen to it.
[2]I hate emo - if you look at my nation, the point is that I'm mocking it.
[3]Punk in general is fairly shitty, uncreative genre of music, with a couple of exceptions, such as The Clash, The Ramones, etc. (I should also mention that a lot of punk IS emo...)
[4]In spite of how much I destest Michael Moore, this thread is about people who mindlessly follow him. I have no problem with him expressing his views, but I'm just as free as he is to use my right to free speech and tell everybody what a brainless jackass he is.

merrrrrrr
yeah emo is short for emotinal punk but I don't think anyone could call it punk anymore, maybe pop punk.
of course the clash and ramones are good but they are classics so thats just stating the obvious.
Theres lots of new good punk bands.
/i like anti-flag and bad religion and i'm a newt
I went to warped this year and every single band I watched(over 10) had something negative to say about Bush.

No prob:
Ah. Improper character evidence in legal terms. Note, however, that I was responding to a similar, unprovoked attack. My reputation was at stake! :D

merrrrrrr
yeah emo is short for emotinal punk but I don't think anyone could call it punk anymore, maybe pop punk.
of course the clash and ramones are good but they are classics so thats just stating the obvious.
Theres lots of new good punk bands.
/i like anti-flag and bad religion and i'm a newt
I went to warped this year and every single band I watched(over 10) had something negative to say about Bush.
Anti-flag? Whatever...
I think it's a requirement that punk bands hate the government so whoa! big surprise there!

Anti-flag? Whatever...
I think it's a requirement that punk bands hate the government so whoa! big surprise there!

I don't think any of this has anything to do with micheal moore.

I think you started this post because you are mad that you are not a newt.

/im a newt

merrrrrrr
yeah emo is short for emotinal punk but I don't think anyone could call it punk anymore, maybe pop punk.
of course the clash and ramones are good but they are classics so thats just stating the obvious.
Theres lots of new good punk bands.
/i like anti-flag and bad religion and i'm a newt
I went to warped this year and every single band I watched(over 10) had something negative to say about Bush.

This is not really on topic or a very good point.

The fact that punk bands don't like President Bush is not the sort of evidence that wins debates.

You funny wingers. Yes, Michael Moore is an asshole and liar.

News Flash.........


So is George W. Bush.

I don't think any of this has anything to do with micheal moore.

I think you started this post because you are mad that you are not a newt.

/im a newt

No you aren't. True newts use (assonance!) better grammar.

This is not really on topic or a very good point.

The fact that punk bands don't like President Bush is not the sort of evidence that wins debates.

your right, i can never keep on topic.
meh

No you aren't. True newts use (assonance!) better grammar.


d0nt sass teh newt gramm0rz.

/insert obvious sarcasm

You funny wingers. Yes, Michael Moore is an asshole and liar.

News Flash.........


So is George W. Bush.
Support, damnit! Both those claims! You don't get the point of this thread! ARG!

Support, damnit! Both those claims! You don't get the point of this thread! ARG!
There are reams of reasons for both statements, and you're an idiot if you need this explained to you, but I'll oblige in the shortest possible way.

Michael Moore produced propoganda for the Democratic paty. He used extensive editing techniques that are less than ethical to sway the audience.
He had some facts there, and some important information, but his desire to manipulate was stronger than his desire to deliver the truth.
In short, asshole and liar.

Bush? Do you really need me to draw a picture?
George is an asshole because under his administration the Patriot Act was introduced. There's never been a greater threat to our civil liberties than this single document. We have the biggest government in history now because of his administration.
Very, very un-Republican.
Also, he's allowed the Christian Coalition to hijack our system.

Which part do you disagree with?

After reading several threads full of shameless Moore-promotion with healthy dose of mindless Bush-bashing, it suddenly occurred to me how ironic it is that Moore-proponents are the ones who are truly brainwashed. I'm not talking about a little bit of enthusiastic zeal: this is close to the real thing. It hurts my eyes to see near-blasphemous claims that Moore is "a true American hero" or that he is "the voice of truth," when a)he clearly is not either of these and b)when asked to support such falsehoods, the proclaimers in question are able only to repeat themselves. Regardless of your political affiliations, it's pretty clear that many of these Moore people are unable to face reality and its difficulties and instead revert to believing we live in a world where everything is a conspiracy and that people cannot control their own lives. Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes, because of course the media wouldn't tell us anything like that would they now? I detect some rambling, so I will stop now and get to the point: Please stop the madness and quit mindlessly supporting the voice that says what you want to hear.


I have worked in media. I have aided in "media opresion". It exits. People seem to think anything that is on TV, moveis or the radion is fact, as long as it supports what they already "know". I worked at a talk radio station for part of my radio stint, and people seem to think that Mike Reagen (whom, sadly, I helped broadcast) is a news source. News: HE IS OPINION. As is virtually all media. Media is focused on making money. Not informing. Media is oppresive And the media wants that. He is right about that. However, he is part of that opressive media. He is no worse than most of the media world.

I have worked in media. I have aided in "media opresion". It exits. People seem to think anything that is on TV, moveis or the radion is fact, as long as it supports what they already "know". I worked at a talk radio station for part of my radio stint, and people seem to think that Mike Reagen (whom, sadly, I helped broadcast) is a news source. News: HE IS OPINION. As is virtually all media. Media is focused on making money. Not informing. Media is oppresive And the media wants that. He is right about that. However, he is part of that opressive media. He is no worse than most of the media world.

Sounds like you're eluding to (as Noam Chomsky put it) Manufactured Consent.

Obviously, no news source is totally unbiased - did you really think I'd say something that stupid? There is, however a difference between bias & oppression.

You fail to see the point. Most people base their opinion on society, world politics etc. on what they hear in the media. If that media paints a coloured picture, so will your view be. This influences your voting behaviour, your impression of how the current government works, your opinion of other cultures, your view on current affairs etc. etc. The media does not have to lie, it just has to be selective in the 'truths' it shows you, imply connections without actually saying they exist, give one side of an issue much more -or better- attention than the other etc. etc. In the USA most media are guilty of this. All sides, not just the always mentioned FoxNews, though that is indeed an excellent example.

THAT is the message you should get from Fahrenheit. If that really was Moore's intention or not is not really relevant - though I'd like to point out that he at least did not claim to be unbiased.

After we silence the one left-wing propagandist, we can work on shutting down all the right-wing propagandists! Yeah!!! :rolleyes:

Funny how out of a cacophony of noisemakers, some will single out just the one that doesn't meet their type of political correctness.

He's a FECKING filmmaker. Who cares? What are you gonna do next? Sue Steven Spielberg because it's unethical to clone dinosaurs?

Funny how out of a cacophony of noisemakers, some will single out just the one that doesn't meet their type of political correctness.

If you refer to me specifically mentioning FoxNews: that's due to 4 reasons:
1. They get mentioned every other topic as an example. I now mentioned they are not the only one. But indeed:
2. Their "fair and balanced" claim. Being biased is one thing, repeatedly claiming you're not quite another.
3. A recent column on their site (yes, not an article, so holding the station responsible is not fair) on the Netherlands which *really* annoyed me since it did exactly what I described, while also being factually wrong.
4. Me being biased against deception. And somewhat towards the left.

Aside: what does political correctness have to do with this at all ? (genuine question)

A fine old chap! Cheers! *Clinks glass, drinks, acts jovial*
Congratulations, a fascist is backing up what you say... :rolleyes:

I think Moore is an excellent film maker and not a bad author. Of course we cant take everything he says at face value. What he writes (and produces) are pieces that support his point of view. No one has ever claimed otherwise and no one has ever pretended that what he writes is unbiased. What upsets me more is people who claim that documentaries are supposed to be unbiased. Those people are confusing news with documentaries. Documentaries are almost always biased becuase they are designed to explore a particular point of view.

Let's consider for a moment "biased", "neutral" and "objective".

"Biased" means you have an agenda or point of view that you'd like to promote. Okay, so what, everyone does. It would be good if you state what your bias is up front, though.

"Neutral" is the opposite of biassed. Very few people even try to be neutral, and even fewer succeed. (I am not sure that neutrality is that great. I certainly want Western Democracy to win over Islamic Fundamentalism, for example.)

"Objective" is the key phrase to remember. It means, in a nutshell, that you should report on reality, i.e. facts, no matter what your bias is. That includes, first, never deliberately lying about facts, and second, mentioning any important facts even if you do *not like* them because of your bias.

The problem with Moore is not that he is biased, the problem is that he is *not objective*. He deliberately lies and misrepresents, and he *always* omits inconvenient facts.

A documentary is by definition an objective presentation. Moore's films do not qualify.

If you refer to me specifically mentioning FoxNews: that's due to 4 reasons:
3. A recent column on their site (yes, not an article, so holding the station responsible is not fair) on the Netherlands which *really* annoyed me since it did exactly what I described, while also being factually wrong.



/a little off-topic:
Here's a short videoclip(partially dutch & english) on that column. I do admit that I have no idea if this was in any way manipulated by the TV-station that made it, but I have no reason to believe that it was :rolleyes:

http://www.rtl.nl/(channel=rtl4,progid=rtlnieuws)/system/media/wvx/actueel/rtlnieuws/miMedia/2005/week01/dinsdag_imago_nl1930.avi_plain.xml/wm364.wvx

Time to request asylum in the US, I cannot believe my government is permitting these atrocities :rolleyes:

A documentary is by definition an objective presentation. Moore's films do not qualify.
No its not. Stop it stop it stop it. Don't like his films, fine. Disagree with content, fine. Think it's out and out wrong, fine. Quit redefining film to fit another red herring attack.

Nanook of the North is still a fucking documentary, so are Moores films.

He's a FECKING filmmaker. Who cares? What are you gonna do next? Sue Steven Spielberg because it's unethical to clone dinosaurs?
Mate go back to spamming your better at it :), Jurassic park is fiction, Moore films is put forward as "fact" you cannot compare the two

I have always wanted to see Moore make a documentary on the obesity epidemic in the US, he could eat donuts all the way through the film whilst pointing out that it was all the fault of Bush.

I'm going to try and get through this post flame free, I hope. The thing is that I do indeed like Michael Moore and I agree with him on many levels. Yet I do not promote him shamelessly (like you are saying people have done, even though I've only seen him repeatedly bashed on personal levels) nor do I try and slander the opposite end of the spectrum. Bill O'Rielly may be one of the biggest jerks on the face of the planet, but I don't publicly announce it. Despite his far-right ravings, he does make some good points. He's an adovacate for kids, opposes the death penalty and anti-NAFTA. Even a jerk can be right sometimes. Ann Coutler, in my opinion is a raving lunatic, but I imagine there are plenty of people out there who can make up their own minds. I'm sure that majority of people don't think Muslims should be killed, that gays are in need of pyschological help and realise that the "liberal" media is indeed a very small island. But people will agree with the previous and people won't. It's their decision and I don't try and change their minds by slandering their favourite representatives of their ideologies (like you have done with Moore). Agree with them, disagree with them. It doesn't matter. If you're going to change someone's mind then you have to present the case to them, not just slander one person. It is people like you who do encourage people to see Michael Moore. They want to know what you so disagree with about him and that's why he gets so popular. It's why people like Michael Savage gets so popular as well. You have achieved nothing in this thread except to piss off a few people. Let people make up their own minds and know that they are intelligent enough to do so. Anyway I'm sure most people want to see his next film anyway, it's about HMOs and I'm sure most Americans can relate to being screwed by HMOs.

Psh. You're just pissed that someone of the opposite side is using the same weapons against you.




Although, I must admit that I didn't like any of his books. Too American-style dumbed down. However, if that is what it takes to bring about some change, so be it.

He's a FECKING filmmaker. Who cares? What are you gonna do next? Sue Steven Spielberg because it's unethical to clone dinosaurs?

LOL, No really, LOL.
I actually HATE the use of LOL. Because most people use it even if they just chuckle in their heads (Or they ARE chuckleheads). But I may get fired now for LOL at work (OK looking at NS forums doesn't help either). Damn you Legless!

Moore has too many inaccuracies in any of his films for me to consider them "documentaries". Too many instances in his films where he has deliberately modified or edited the speech or visual content in order to create a false impression (or a false event).

And, in interviews, when questioned about this, he laughs, and asks why should he be concerned about accuracy in comedy? He admits they are not documentaries, but rather are comedy material in documentary style.

Too many people think that what they see in his films are 100 percent true. Michael himself says that this is not the case, and he's not checking any facts, especially if they don't coincide with his comedic (and world) vision.

It's rather like the people who like to get all their news from Rush Limbaugh, or Paul Harvey. It's called tunnel vision.

After reading several threads full of shameless Moore-promotion with healthy dose of mindless Bush-bashing, it suddenly occurred to me how ironic it is that Moore-proponents are the ones who are truly brainwashed. I'm not talking about a little bit of enthusiastic zeal: this is close to the real thing. It hurts my eyes to see near-blasphemous claims that Moore is "a true American hero" or that he is "the voice of truth," when a)he clearly is not either of these and b)when asked to support such falsehoods, the proclaimers in question are able only to repeat themselves. Regardless of your political affiliations, it's pretty clear that many of these Moore people are unable to face reality and its difficulties and instead revert to believing we live in a world where everything is a conspiracy and that people cannot control their own lives. Moore wants us to believe in a world where we are all oppressed by the media, regardless of the truth, so he simply tells us that we are and everyone believes, because of course the media wouldn't tell us anything like that would they now? I detect some rambling, so I will stop now and get to the point: Please stop the madness and quit mindlessly supporting the voice that says what you want to hear.
in my eyes Moore should be a 'true american hero' simply because he is sceptical and questions his government and his country. I'm not american, but that's more heroic to me than blindly accepting whatever the evidently corrupt government, and the media tell you.

in my eyes Moore should be a 'true american hero' simply because he is sceptical and questions his government and his country. I'm not american, but that's more heroic to me than blindly accepting whatever the evidently corrupt government, and the media tell you.
Moore is part of a corupt corporate media propaganda machine

in my eyes Moore should be a 'true american hero' simply because he is sceptical and questions his government and his country. I'm not american, but that's more heroic to me than blindly accepting whatever the evidently corrupt government, and the media tell you.

Oh, so he should be considered a hero because he deliberately (and in his words, comedically) falsifies parts of his documentaries in order to achieve the desired effect?

So falsification in the name of your cause is OK, and any falsehoods on the part of anyone on the opposing side is BAD.

Oh, that makes sense. How about we go with the idea that falsification and presenting falsely modified video and audio as fact are BAD no matter who does it?

Well this is my only comment to this thread:
You American rightwinger should like Moore because he way better then Kenneth Star
Because the both embrassed the fine American principle of question the goverment, but:
Kenneth Star was payed by the goverment so it was your taxmoney that went to it, so either you liked him or not the goverment took your money and paid him. While Moore trust the market principle that you embrace, if peole don't like his work he goes hungry but if they like his work he gets filthy rich.
Kenneth Star wrote a dirty sex novel while as Moore has written horror novels and films. And as many of you are conservative christian you don't like "dirty sex"
And finally Moore as been proven to be a gifted entreuprener that can give the market what they wont, while Kenneth Star lead a failed goverment project, that few was intersted in.
This was my very serius comment to this thread

If you guys want to know something about conspiracies (YES, THEY DO EXIST) watch a documentary called "the corporation"... it will open the eyes of some of the blind.
(carry on, mr moore. you rule !!!)

I have always wanted to see Moore make a documentary on the obesity epidemic in the US, he could eat donuts all the way through the film whilst pointing out that it was all the fault of Bush.
Nobody thought this was funny :(

Nobody thought this was funny :(

I did. I hope he dies fat.

I Agreeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!