NationStates Jolt Archive

Republicans and Democrats, I beg of you. Why does abortion even have to be an issue? Pro or against, your only treating the symptoms of the problem at hand.

Couples or single women have abortions for several reasons; they either consider themselves too young or too poor to support a child, they can't provide a stable enviroment, or they don't have a second person to split the responsibilities with.

More rarely, it's for health reasons or in cases of rape.

Why does there even need to be abortions?

Most of these reasons, if not all, are correctable and preventable.

By providing proper sexual education, in both the use of contraceptives and by promoting abstinence or responsible sexual practices, we can eliminate the problem almost completely. By fostering a community of open minded, intelligent and well meaning people working together, building a society of the responsible exercise of the freedoms we as human beings are gifted with.

Don't like immoral or destructive popular media? Don't like the brain washing practices of less respectable faith based organizations? Instead of throwing feces at each other, lets work together.

Together, Republican and Democrat, Liberal and Conservative, Atheist, Agnostic and Theist, we can work together to create a better world!

A world of peace, diversity, a new era of intelligence, respsonsibility, philosophy and spirituality.

Don't you agree?

Oh come on, isn't there someone else tired of this futile bickering?

I mean honestly, its threatening to tear the United States and the world apart.




What's wrong with trying to mediate?

By providing proper sexual education, in both the use of contraceptives and by promoting abstinence or responsible sexual practices, we can eliminate the problem almost completely. By fostering a community of open minded, intelligent and well meaning people working together, building a society of the responsible exercise of the freedoms we as human beings are gifted with.Easy answer, hooray! It works for the Jehovah's witnesses I guess...

Hey, anyone who wants abortion can come to my country, Kastoria, and get them by the bucketload. Twins? Triplets? No problem. Abortions in Kastoria come at the low-low price of 50 bucks a child, and our special Twin rate of a measly $75 total is a steal. In fact, your making money, this deal is so good. So go out and bonk each other's brains outs, and let us deal with the consequences. Remember: a clean womb brings a clean mind.

:D

This is an easy one folks!

Don't want an abortion, don't have one! All you welfare types, can't afford to have a baby? start affording condoms (I can't imagine any guy who is about to get laid not being able to come up with 50 cents).

Ultimately, the amount of people who make up the category who were raped or have complications amounts to less than 2%. so hey other 98%, stop using abortion as a form of birth controll, it's just not cool.

remember! as long as society allows people to be irresponsible, people will grant us our every wish!

*whew* done =p

Hey-Lo! Yeah, everyone knows about condoms, ect. But rape is common, and condoms break. Honey, the only way to prevent the need for abortions is to enforce homosexuality/evangelical christianity(ooh, wow, they do have something in common-neither is likely to get an abortion) :fluffle: And there will also be health reasons. You are proposing a utopian society, and utopia means NEVER-EVER. There should be more sex ed (no abstinence only, 'cause that sucks) :gundge: (besides everyone <3's sex ed) But abortion will always be an issue, 'cause condoms break :( , ladies get raped :mad: , and stuff. :headbang:

you forgot libertarians

Libertarians haven't taken an official stance on abortion.

Hey, don't look at me. Where I live abortion isn't an issue, and hasn't been for four or five decades.

Abortions for some, miniature Swedish flags for others! :D

Actually I think most of our societies problems are caused by bickering political groups, meanwhile the newest generations considers having the latest bling bling is more important then a proper education or responsible parenting.

Edit: Why is it any improvement to our current situation is automatically considered a utopian dream? It's wrong, it's defeatist. People like you are exactly what prevents a utopia, not our conflicting natures, but people who'd rather talk about how impossible things are then actually doing anything.

Rape and health related abortions are a extremely small percentage. It isn't impossible to improve health care nor lower rate rapes, so that problem is preventable too, (with the exception of health related abortions.)

Republicans and Democrats, I beg of you. Why does abortion even have to be an issue? Pro or against, your only treating the symptoms of the problem at hand.

Couples or single women have abortions for several reasons; they either consider themselves too young or too poor to support a child, they can't provide a stable enviroment, or they don't have a second person to split the responsibilities with.

More rarely, it's for health reasons or in cases of rape.

Why does there even need to be abortions?

Most of these reasons, if not all, are correctable and preventable.

By providing proper sexual education, in both the use of contraceptives and by promoting abstinence or responsible sexual practices, we can eliminate the problem almost completely. By fostering a community of open minded, intelligent and well meaning people working together, building a society of the responsible exercise of the freedoms we as human beings are gifted with.

Don't like immoral or destructive popular media? Don't like the brain washing practices of less respectable faith based organizations? Instead of throwing feces at each other, lets work together.

Together, Republican and Democrat, Liberal and Conservative, Atheist, Agnostic and Theist, we can work together to create a better world!

A world of peace, diversity, a new era of intelligence, respsonsibility, philosophy and spirituality.

Don't you agree?

Agreed. If they're poor, they can give it up for adoption. If they are too young, or if they were raped, or for health problems, then they may have the abortions.

But damn, I'm sick of bickering between both sides...especially about religion...the right doesn't get religion right, and the left doesn't get it at all.

But don't take the choice away, one, it's not your decision to make for someone else and two, just because you think it's wrong doesn't make it wrong. the govenment's job is not to enforce morals but to protect our rights. not take them away. so if you don't think it's right, then don't get one, it really couldn't be more simple. People just need to mind their own business and learn that just because they think they're right. doesn't mean they are.

Agreed. If they're poor, they can give it up for adoption. If they are too young, or if they were raped, or for health problems, then they may have the abortions.

But damn, I'm sick of bickering between both sides...especially about religion...the right doesn't get religion right, and the left doesn't get it at all.

I have liberal friends that are Christian. And there's a site called liberalslikechrist, I think that's the name.

No no no, I'm not talking about taking away choice at all!

After endless debate on the topic, I've decided that we are always going to end up on a stale mate on this issue.

Thats why I say by attacking this problem, at it's source, progressively, and not with ignorance we can eliminate the problem entirely.

Don't illegalize abortions, but focus on cooperitive progressive programs that will decrease the number of abortions of zero.

In the end, women still have the right to choose and almost no fetuses are aborted. Sure, it's not like flipping a switch, it would take time and a change in the way we view problems.

In short, we need to compromise.

But don't take the choice away, one, it's not your decision to make for someone else and two, just because you think it's wrong doesn't make it wrong. the govenment's job is not to enforce morals but to protect our rights. not take them away. so if you don't think it's right, then don't get one, it really couldn't be more simple. People just need to mind their own business and learn that just because they think they're right. doesn't mean they are.
Actually, the government does enforce morals. Why do you think that murder, theft, and the like are crimes?

Together, Republican and Democrat, Liberal and Conservative, Atheist, Agnostic and Theist, we can work together to create a better world!

A world of peace, diversity, a new era of intelligence, respsonsibility, philosophy and spirituality.

Don't you agree?

I love the smell of naiveté in the morning...

You don't get out much, do you?

what you say is simple. and probably for the best. and it's idealist. much as we want that to happen, its impossible. Conservatives would never allow this to happen, conservative christains would never allow this to happen. Also, there are the few cases where the mother was raped, and sometimes, its not just their decision, because they may have been raised in a closely religious environment, or their parent's may think that it's morally/ethically wrong. Also, its not that easy to give a baby up for adoption. Even if you were poor, some are not willing to give up their babies, because of something called love. There is a responsibility of the parent to take care of the child, and even if they are poor doesn't mean they don't want children.

End of story, good idea, but its never gonna happen, as much as we want it to

When the first person intentionally killed an unborn baby, then abortion became an issue.

I think we deserve the choice whether or not to have an abortion. "Abortion as a form of birth control" - what the ??? Why would people do this? It's more expensive than the more common and readily available birth control systems out there, not to mention the spreading of STDs.
And why has there been so much talk about condoms and none about oral contraceptives? It isn't just men's responsibility, after all - if I get pregnent because my partner's condom breaks, it's my fault for not using a contraceptive myself.
I also believe that better sex ed programmes are the answer. I couldn't believe that in certain schools in America, the only sex ed taught is abstinence! Educate the youth, teach them the risks and the ways to look after themselves, and we will be a giant leap closer towards solving the problem of unecessary abortions - by which I mean, reducing the stress and trauma of an abortion to young women who needn't be pregnant in the first place.
On the other hand, I don't think we're going to have a solution to this problem. The debate will continue for years because one side sees it as inherently wrong and the other believes it's a fundamental right. I'm not naïve enough to think we can reconcile the two sides. :rolleyes:

And it's great to know that homosexuals and devout Christians have something in common... :D

Oh, and here's some news: in Australia, the Catholic Church is considering introducing an abortion counselling service. Does this strike anyone else as very similar to suicide counselling? We all know what they're going to tell us to do. :mp5:

Oh, and here's some news: in Australia, the Catholic Church is considering introducing an abortion counselling service. Does this strike anyone else as very similar to suicide counselling? We all know what they're going to tell us to do. :mp5:

That sexually abusing foetuses is OK if done by a priest?

That sexually abusing foetuses is OK if done by a priest?

Only on hallowed ground though... geez, don't forget the basics.

Only on hallowed ground though... geez, don't forget the basics.

But priests have insta-ground-hallowing powers.

I don't get why so many Americans got all uppity about Kerry's support for abortion, when Bush had his entire first term to do something about abortion and yet it's still legal?

But priests have insta-ground-hallowing powers.

Is that sorta like a Karate Chop Action Forearm? With concrete blocks-to-be-broken accessory? :D

But priests have insta-ground-hallowing powers.

You're thinking of Clerics. That's D&D. Common misconception.

Actually, the government does enforce morals. Why do you think that murder, theft, and the like are crimes?
The government should not be in the business of enforcing 'morals', just whose are they going to enforce when there is no clear majority view on what is the 'moral' thing to do?

You cant enforce 'morals', if a person behaves a certain way because to do otherwise would in their own veiw be immoral, that is morals and no one is forcing them, if a person behaves a certain way because even though they dont consider it immoral, they dont want the punitive consequences of doing otherwise, that is not morality.

The law is premised on being the same for everyone, it is not illegal for A to speed but ok for B because A thinks speeding is immoral and B doesnt, such a legal system would be unworkable.

You're thinking of Clerics. That's D&D. Common misconception.

Wait, you mean catholic priests don't walk around carrying +5 maces?

I feel so disillusioned right now...

Wait...no, they're the same! I mean, hello?! "Exorcism?" "Turn Undead?" Please. Please.

Wait, you mean catholic priests don't walk around carrying +5 maces?

I feel so disillusioned right now...

Wait...no, they're the same! I mean, hello?! "Exorcism?" "Turn Undead?" Please. Please.
I think today's priests would be so much more effectie if they could jjust call down a pillar of holy fire.
The +5 maces would help too!
:D

Actually, the government does enforce morals. Why do you think that murder, theft, and the like are crimes?
there are plenty of non-moral reasons for a government or society to prohibit those acts.

That sexually abusing foetuses is OK if done by a priest?

Only if it's been endorsed, then covered up by the local bishop.

I think today's priests would be so much more effectie if they could jjust call down a pillar of holy fire.
The +5 maces would help too!
:D

Use it on all heretics, blasphemers, heathens, agnostics and people who fidget during the sermon.


(Yes, I did butcher a Pratchet quote. I know; it comes from Guards! Guards!)*

Use it on all heretics, blasphemers, heathens, agnostics and people who fidget during the sermon.


(Yes, I did butcher a Pratchet quote. I know; it comes from Guards! Guards!)*
Ooh!
Go Terry Pratchett!!
Yaaay!

The government should not be in the business of enforcing 'morals', just whose are they going to enforce when there is no clear majority view on what is the 'moral' thing to do?

You cant enforce 'morals', if a person behaves a certain way because to do otherwise would in their own veiw be immoral, that is morals and no one is forcing them, if a person behaves a certain way because even though they dont consider it immoral, they dont want the punitive consequences of doing otherwise, that is not morality.

The law is premised on being the same for everyone, it is not illegal for A to speed but ok for B because A thinks speeding is immoral and B doesnt, such a legal system would be unworkable.
O.K. Now, answer my question. Why is it illegal to murder, steal, and so on?

there are plenty of non-moral reasons for a government or society to prohibit those acts.
And what are they?

O.K. Now, answer my question. Why is it illegal to murder, steal, and so on?
Because that's the law... ;)

Really though, because it is apparently in the short term at least, adaptive.

And what are they?


Evolution did it...


I like it like that...


It sounds like a plan....

Self interest...

Good will to all people kind....

to name just a few....

Originally Posted by Pythagosaurus
O.K. Now, answer my question. Why is it illegal to murder, steal, and so on?

Because they infringe on the self-determination and autonomy of someone else? The criminal is having a negative impact on someone's life AGAINST THEIR WILL.
People seriously need to take courses in ethics...

Where abortion fits into all this depends on where you stand on the embryo/foetus... Let's not open THAT can of worms...

Because they infringe on the self-determination and autonomy of someone else? The criminal is having a negative impact on someone's life AGAINST THEIR WILL.
People seriously need to take courses in ethics...

Where abortion fits into all this depends on where you stand on the embryo/foetus... Let's not open THAT can of worms...
I don't need to take a course in ethics. You need to take a course in reading discussions from the beginning. I was making the point that our laws are based on morals. Thank you for proving it.