NationStates Jolt Archive

I think the title speaks for itself...

This is what I believe...
Evolution is a fact, a proven theory, which has been perfected since Darwin.
Creationism is more of a faith but no actual proof of fact or evidence. And for those who believe in the bible as literal truth, then in that case creationism should be taught in religious schools instead of Evolution witch is reasonable.

But public schools have students of all religions of different ethnic backgrounds, God, Gods, and non-God believers. Since Evolution is more of a scientific element it should be taught. Otherwise perhaps teachers should teach the world being flat as a possible theory as well as creationism. Witch makes as much sense.

Feel free to ague with me, ( just don’t shoot me ) or put in a point I may have forgotten.

I think the title speaks for itself...

This is what I believe...
Evolution is a fact, a proven theory, which has been perfected since Darwin.
Creationism is more of a faith but no actual proof of fact or evidence. And for those who believe in the bible as literal truth, then in that case creationism should be taught in religious schools instead of Evolution witch is reasonable.

But public schools have students of all religions of different ethnic backgrounds, God, Gods, and non-God believers. Since Evolution is more of a scientific element it should be taught. Otherwise perhaps teachers should teach the world being flat as a possible theory as well as creationism. Witch makes as much sense.

Feel free to ague with me, ( just don’t shoot me ) or put in a point I may have forgotten.
Evolution, of course. But I also advocate teaching Creationism as an "alternate but unproven" theory in those school districts where parents of faith insist. Not an ideal situation, but perhaps the lesser of several evils. :(

Ignoring the fact that evolution is hardly "perfected", I think that evolution, as our most proven and reasonable theory of the history of life on Earth, ought to be taught in science classes as a scientific theory, which it is.

I also believe that Creationism should be taught in schools, but in the context of a religion course. It should be taught alongside other cultures' creations myths, and should be treated for what it is, a religious theory of the creation of life.

yeah as a compromise, i guess so.

Public schools should be secular institutions, except where the state is explicitly denominational. (i.e Iran, the UK)
This being the case, religous education should cover a wide range of beliefs and faiths which can include Creationism as a belief.
The school should also teach science, wherein it would teach evolution as being the current scientific understanding.
Then, the critical part, which very few education systems include, the school should teach philosophy so the students can learn to question for themselves what they have been taught, and come to their own conclusions.

The poll needs more options, like neither and both, for example.

yeah as a compromise, i guess so.

Not as a compromise, but because it is important for students to learn about world religions. Whether you like it or not, religion is an enormous part of the world today, and being well-versed in different religions is important for people these days.

Evolution, of course. But I also advocate teaching Creationism as an "alternate but unproven" theory in those school districts where parents of faith insist. Not an ideal situation, but perhaps the lesser of several evils. :(

They have a place to go to to learn creationism. It's called C H U R C H.

. . . being well-versed in different religions is important for people these days.

:p

They have a place to go to to learn creationism. It's called C H U R C H.
If church wants to use government owned buildings and government paid teachers to teach it's mythology we should force them to give some church time over to scientific lectures on Sunday mornings.

They have a place to go to to learn creationism. It's called C H U R C H.

Perhaps, but then they're only learning the creation myth for their particular religion. It's rather one-sided; students ought to be exposed to ALL religions.

we shouldn't teach christian creationism as an alternative theory unless we also teach the greek mythology creation myth and native american creation myths as alternative theories.
(also any other creation myths, i just can't think of any more.)

Evolution is a scientific theory, it is taught it science class.

Creationism is a religious story, it is taught in sunday school.

When I think back to those hated sundays when my Christian grandma took me to sunday school we once drew pictures with dinosaurs on them. That just seems ironic now.

But schools dont teach Islam, Shinto, or Bhudauism. instead they teach with a Christian vibe.

i dont know how it is in your schools... but in mine they treat all "other" religions as Insignificant. ( and this is a public school ) Religion period should be teached ( if taught ) with all sorts of religions as equals.

and yes Evolution is NOT a theory. It has been labeled as a theory only as a religouse zing to show that its not a fact to make themselves look good.

the sciantific comunity has accepted it as a fact. witch makes it so unless proven otherwise.

I shall quote the greatly wise pearl jam:'Do The Evolution'
Teaching creationism would limit the children's ability to realize what's crap and what's not. Unless it's taught in a special class called "this is crap".

I'm going to put on the angry man pants, even though people are actually being rational (i.e. creationism is a myth, a belief formed on nothing but faith and is taught in a different subject along with other faiths) and say-

Why do we have to hold back the rest of the class for the flat earthers*? If you want to believe things where blinked into existance fully formed by a bored diety so that he could have a population of people to tell him how cool he is for doing so, great. More power to you. I actually don't have a problem with people having a faith and belief. Whatever you need to get by in this world I have no right to take from you.

However, once that starts holding up the rest of us, it becomes a problem. Even the catholic fucking church-who only recently pardoned Gallilao(sp) was able to say, "Look, most of whats written here is alagory. Evolution is how god worked it." And these are the people that won't let someone use a substitute host because of alleregies.

If they can do, so can the rest of you ('you' being no one who posted at the time I started this, because everyone was being rational and I put on my angry pants anyway)

*I use the term flat earthers who not only ignore but vehemently attack science in leu of what an over translated book kinda tells them.

Perhaps, but then they're only learning the creation myth for their particular religion. It's rather one-sided; students ought to be exposed to ALL religions.

And I don't think creationism would do that since it would be centered on christian beliefs.

I too believe that learning about religion is important but NOT in SCIENCE class which is what creationists want to do.

Evolution is fact. Creationism is crap.

And I don't think creationism would do that since it would be centered on christian beliefs.

I too believe that learning about religion is important but NOT in SCIENCE class which is what creationists want to do.


You don't actually disagree with me, you know.

I also believe that Creationism should be taught in schools, but in the context of a religion course. It should be taught alongside other cultures' creations myths, and should be treated for what it is, a religious theory of the creation of life.

Evolution is fact. Creationism is crap.


( personaly thats how i feel, as a modern panthiest )

They have a place to go to to learn creationism. It's called C H U R C H.
Yes, that. Brevity is the soul of wit. I should take that to heart some day....

Evolution is a scientific theory and almost an accepted fact outside of the religious loonies sects. It should be taught in school but without being a unquestionable dogma. Children should learn to value and analyze evidence and think for themselves. That's what science is all about. :)

Creationism is a faith and could be taught in church to those that want to hear it.

Wow, a thread about creationism and evolution. How refreshing. Why hasn't anyone thought of this topic for the NS General Forum before?

If church wants to use government owned buildings and government paid teachers to teach it's mythology we should force them to give some church time over to scientific lectures on Sunday mornings.
hehe

First of all, even if you teach Creationism you have to teach evolution, because it is jsut as real as any other science.

As for actually teaching creationsim, I agree it should be taught in a sociological sense but not as a truth. So far unless schools teach creationsim they don't answer the question of where the world came from at all (the big bang doesn't count, there was stuff before it). Schools should tell students all of the beginning ideas in a philosophy class because current scientific thought is that there was no real beginning of everything.

Church should teach creationism yes <== do whatever makes them happy


Public schools should only get into the discussion only if they are talking about world religions.

If church wants to use government owned buildings and government paid teachers to teach it's mythology we should force them to give some church time over to scientific lectures on Sunday mornings.

When I heard about them putting stickers on science books teaching evolution which said that "what is inside may not be true, etc" I thought if they were going to do that to science books we should be well in our rights to do the same to every Bible in the state.

Wow, a thread about creationism and evolution. How refreshing. Why hasn't anyone thought of this topic for the NS General Forum before?

The forum is big enough that any one post might not get everyone who wants to talk about it heard. Just because everyone talks about this doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about.(by the way, if you were serious just ignore this)

When I heard about them putting stickers on science books teaching evolution which said that "what is inside may not be true, etc" I thought if they were going to do that to science books we should be well in our rights to do the same to every Bible in the state.

If they put stickers on science books that teach evolution they should put them on all science books because evolution is more valid than newtonian gravity.

we shouldn't teach christian creationism as an alternative theory unless we also teach the greek mythology creation myth and native american creation myths as alternative theories.
(also any other creation myths, i just can't think of any more.)
Those are hardly mainstream religious thinking in most States where this issue has been a bone of contention.

First of all, even if you teach Creationism you have to teach evolution, because it is jsut as real as any other science.



umm no there is no proof in creationism
creationism is baced on a book ( bible ) that was written and re-written and edited and re-edited hundreds of years ago...

even if it were true ( FROM THE ORIGINAL BIBLE ) its definitly been disorted by now without a doubt.

Creationism is faith, evolution is science: I would rather my children l have open free thinking, scientific minds as opposed to non-thinking faithful closed minds.

Evolution should be taught in any public school, while creationism should be left to religious schools.

Creationism is faith, evolution is science: I would rather my children l have open free thinking, scientific minds as opposed to non-thinking faithful closed minds.

Evolution should be taught in any public school, while creationism should be left to religious schools.

Holy crap, you're still alive?

You don't actually disagree with me, you know.

Sorry. The captalized words were not aimed at you.

Creationism is faith, evolution is science: I would rather my children l have open free thinking, scientific minds as opposed to non-thinking faithful closed minds.

Evolution should be taught in any public school, while creationism should be left to religious schools.


EXACTLY RIGHT

More science educated kids and less religious crap forced in to their heads == A better world :)

More science educated kids and less religious crap forced in to their heads == A better world


im going to have to say more then half of ALL wars was caused by religion.
and of that majority half, Cristianity is #1 and Islam is #2

you can see... if we were done with religion the world would be a better place.

and dont say if we were all christian or all islamic NOPE christains have done a mighty fine job killing themselvs...

If they put stickers on science books that teach evolution they should put them on all science books because evolution is more valid than newtonian gravity.

And we all know that the Bible says gravity didn't happen. :D

there are peaceful religions such as Bhudiusm, Confusuism, Shinto *( notice were im going )* i just stated religions that dont beleave in a god....

umm no there is no proof in creationism
creationism is baced on a book ( bible ) that was written and re-written and edited and re-edited hundreds of years ago...

even if it were true ( FROM THE ORIGINAL BIBLE ) its definitly been disorted by now without a doubt.

You read what I said wrong. I said evolution is just as real as any other science so that even if you teach creationism so long as you teach any science you have to teach evolution.

oh sorry about that ^^ :)

there are peaceful religions such as Bhudiusm, Confusuism, Shinto *( notice were im going )* i just stated religions that dont beleave in a god....

Shinto may not have gods but it does have major spirits.

And we all know that the Bible says gravity didn't happen. :D
you're a dumbass...

I hope you all know that the Christian creationism theory came from the mythological creationism theories. The Christians made a habit out of taking local traditions and using them to their benefit. The image we have of Satan is from a native place (forget where), I think the god they derived the image from was called Baaj or Baal (I forget that as well...I jsut know it was derived from elsewhere). The whole Hell thing is derived from Hades. Heaven is derived a lot from Norse mythology. The whole Christian principle is all derivatives. The Bible as we know it is derived too...the Old Testament the most.

Okay...before you bash me for this. I'm not atheist or Christian nor agnostic. I'm a semi-believer in my own right. The churches are corrupt and so is the Bible from mistranslation. Albeit, my girlfriend is religious...very...and whenever we talk about religion or something similar I seem to ignite a spark of realization in her that she never realized was there...the flaws in her and many of ther Christians' religion. I just have a way of showing them this. I figure...they've tried to convert me forcibly why can't I? However...I'm not trying to convert them, only show logic. So....everything I stated was logical and factual from what I remember. Feel free to talk to me about it.

If you really care...you can message my nation and ask for my AIM screen name :)

you're a dumbass...

It's a joke. Don't take it seriously.

Although if anyone wants to find a Bible verse that disproves gravity we would all be entertained greatly. ;)

I hope you all know that the Christian creationism theory came from the mythological creationism theories. The Christians made a habit out of taking local traditions and using them to their benefit. The image we have of Satan is from a native place (forget where), I think the god they derived the image from was called Baaj or Baal (I forget that as well...I jsut know it was derived from elsewhere). The whole Hell thing is derived from Hades. Heaven is derived a lot from Norse mythology. The whole Christian principle is all derivatives. The Bible as we know it is derived too...the Old Testament the most.

Okay...before you bash me for this. I'm not atheist or Christian nor agnostic. I'm a semi-believer in my own right. The churches are corrupt and so is the Bible from mistranslation. Albeit, my girlfriend is religious...very...and whenever we talk about religion or something similar I seem to ignite a spark of realization in her that she never realized was there...the flaws in her and many of ther Christians' religion. I just have a way of showing them this. I figure...they've tried to convert me forcibly why can't I? However...I'm not trying to convert them, only show logic. So....everything I stated was logical and factual from what I remember. Feel free to talk to me about it.

If you really care...you can message my nation and ask for my AIM screen name :)


Your a Deitest? a person who beleaves in a god but dose not follow a organized religion.. thats fine those people are more resainable then others

I may be what you called me, however I'm all about the sciences. Evolution is my thing fully. So...whatever, lol.

I may be what you called me, however I'm all about the sciences. Evolution is my thing fully. So...whatever, lol.

Spiritually you belave in a god... i have repsect for ya i got you back G lol

"I believe that humans are too stupid to ever know what happens to us when we die. I just try to live my life making others and myself as happy as possible without letting people walk all over me. I think that's all anyone could ask of anybody, even God. I was raised Baptist. Now I'm agnostic and pray for the Baptist. Many of their religion preach hate and judgement, which is not the message of Jesus, who they claim to believe in. I believe God/Jesus/Allah or whatever you want to call him just wants us to be happy and enjoy our lives, not make other people miserable or calling people out as evil. Who are we to know what true evil is? Our minds cannot comprehend that just as we cannot know what pure love is, which some people call God. We can only know how people treat us. Those that are vicious and cause destruction certainly are not the best of the human race, but we cannot determine whether they will be in heaven or hell (if those places even exist as we imagine they do). All we can do is defend ourselves and take precautions against people who would do us harm, but never attack them except in retaliation and defense.

As far as gays and non-Christians going to hell, that is just silly. We cannot know what God requires of us to be in his good graces. The Bible was written by men who are imperfect. Besides, the Bible also says that people should not wear clothing of different cloths and that we should not eat shellfish. I seriously doubt that the creator of the entire universe cares anything about the gender of who we love, what we eat, or what we wear. As far as Christianity is concerned, I realize that they believe that Christ was the sone of God and he died for our sins. However, I also realize we are all children of our creator, even the people who lived before Christ. I think God is too loving and compassionate to cast anyone to hell simply because they were not saved by Jesus. Many people have never even had the opportunity to hear the gospels of Jesus, so what happens to them? If God were to cast them all to hell I personnally would be very dissappointed. There are plenty of good people who are not Christian and not religious. I believe we should not focus on what happens when we die but instead focus on our daily lives, making them as full and wonderful as we can."


Got that from some guy on here. He's my hero.

and yes Evolution is NOT a theory. It has been labeled as a theory only as a religouse zing to show that its not a fact to make themselves look good.

Actually it is a theory.

The problem is creationists (primarily of the christian evangelical bent) mis-use the common definition of theory rather than the scientific one.

Scientifically, a theory describes what we know about the subject, it explains known relationships and using it, we are able to predict other data.

The alternate usage, as fraudulently used by creationists, is that a theory is an idea or guess without any evidence in support. (BTW, this usage is correct for the "theory" of creation.)

"I believe that humans are too stupid to ever know what happens to us when we die. I just try to live my life making others and myself as happy as possible without letting people walk all over me. I think that's all anyone could ask of anybody, even God. I was raised Baptist. Now I'm agnostic and pray for the Baptist. Many of their religion preach hate and judgement, which is not the message of Jesus, who they claim to believe in. I believe God/Jesus/Allah or whatever you want to call him just wants us to be happy and enjoy our lives, not make other people miserable or calling people out as evil. Who are we to know what true evil is? Our minds cannot comprehend that just as we cannot know what pure love is, which some people call God. We can only know how people treat us. Those that are vicious and cause destruction certainly are not the best of the human race, but we cannot determine whether they will be in heaven or hell (if those places even exist as we imagine they do). All we can do is defend ourselves and take precautions against people who would do us harm, but never attack them except in retaliation and defense.

As far as gays and non-Christians going to hell, that is just silly. We cannot know what God requires of us to be in his good graces. The Bible was written by men who are imperfect. Besides, the Bible also says that people should not wear clothing of different cloths and that we should not eat shellfish. I seriously doubt that the creator of the entire universe cares anything about the gender of who we love, what we eat, or what we wear. As far as Christianity is concerned, I realize that they believe that Christ was the sone of God and he died for our sins. However, I also realize we are all children of our creator, even the people who lived before Christ. I think God is too loving and compassionate to cast anyone to hell simply because they were not saved by Jesus. Many people have never even had the opportunity to hear the gospels of Jesus, so what happens to them? If God were to cast them all to hell I personnally would be very dissappointed. There are plenty of good people who are not Christian and not religious. I believe we should not focus on what happens when we die but instead focus on our daily lives, making them as full and wonderful as we can."


Got that from some guy on here. He's my hero.


The absolut teachings are fine... People are the ones who mess them up... People kill other people to convert becuase if they do they go to heaven...


In africa you know what those good christain chairtiys are doing? If you dont read the bible and dont go to church on sunday you dont get a handout... so sorry your going to hell so why feed you?

Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? yeah they killed sects of their religion.


These are simple reasons im a Modern Panthiest ( aka Athiest )

Actually it is a theory.

The problem is creationists (primarily of the christian evangelical bent) mis-use the common definition of theory rather than the scientific one.

Scientifically, a theory describes what we know about the subject, it explains known relationships and using it, we are able to predict other data.

The alternate usage, as fraudulently used by creationists, is that a theory is an idea or guess without any evidence in support. (BTW, this usage is correct for the "theory" of creation.)



A theory of creation is baced on a book with no facts unlike evolution

yea, i think one of the (new?) theories on creationism is called "intelligent creation/design" - that the cellular make up, that is to say, DNA is too complex to be made up by random events and natural selection but could have only been created. This theory does not claim to the existence of a religious god as the creator but only to that of a "superior being". Many snide remarks on this subject - especially on its inclusion into the school curriculum - to the effect...
you're either saying that we were created by god(s) or aliens, you're either teaching religion or National Enquirer.
while this is an exaggeration, it does shed light on the design's reception as science
teachers refused to teach it in Dover..(woohoo delaware, we know ur out there, somewhere...)
Intelligent design isnt based on fact but mainly on speculation of the impossibility of life brought from randomness...anyway...in point...
:headbang:
chalk one up for natural selection.

Creationism and Evolution should both be taught in public schools so students can make up their own mind.

Creationism and Evolution should both be taught in public schools so students can make up their own mind.

Do you support teaching students creation myths from various religions of the world?

They should both be taught, side by side. Or at least give some attention to the possibility of creationism. Just because we know how we evolved doesn't mean we know why or how everything came into being. Both religion and science have their limits of how far they can explain things.

Do you support teaching students creation myths from various religions of the world?

That could be an idea. So just the Christian belief isn't the only one shown. So yes, to be fair (since this country is so damned worried about that).

Creationism and Evolution should both be taught in public schools so students can make up their own mind.
To the extent that one SEPERATES the principles here between empirical evidence
(HOMEWORK: Anopheles)
and mythological influence and characteristics.
Two different classes. Should be treated as such.
If anyone is intending to LEAD A CLASS under the assumption of "Beginnings of human race influence in world" or "Beginning of world" then there is also a necessary split in intent. No matter what, someone would have to supply more than anecdotal "data" for any kind of supplementation. That would mean that someone would have to have been at the "beginning" that is the focus of the class. Hard one. Next hardest step is reliable evidence, and that is fortunately the easiest and most sensible place to allow the split in pursuit. Lots of anecdote for biblical "interpretation", with some sparse archeological references. Still don't date past civilized "human" intervention .... lots of evidence as to the chemical and physical standards of a developing planet/inhabitation and empirical data as a series of consequences that could be somewhat lab supported. I again refer to the case of the mosquito (last year, Anopheles) and its adaptations and subsequent genetic changes based on such. Genetics may also be a good supplement for that class.
But any earlier than that and both groups are hoping for a great answer that will kinda kill off the inquisitive and oft-tortured pursuit of the question 'round how they got here in the first place and what's it all about.
Again, i implore the intrepid to supply evidence that the bible itself specifically disowns any function of "evolution" (and not the euphemism of the word, either).
....

And we all know that the Bible says gravity didn't happen. :D

I once had a Bible thumper tell me that it was angles that were holding you down! :eek:

Well Evolution is not fact. It would be called the Law of Evolution rather then the theory. ;)

Even the proponents argue over aspects of it.

Evolution belongs in the Science Class and Creationism belongs in Church or a Religious Studies course.

If the evangelistas want to set up their own private school, then they can do what ever they like.....

I shall quote the greatly wise pearl jam:'Do The Evolution'
Teaching creationism would limit the children's ability to realize what's crap and what's not. Unless it's taught in a special class called "this is crap".

/signed.

Actually, I think all schools need a "This is Crap" class :D