NationStates Jolt Archive

Everything is equal, so why therefore would you eat plants but not animals? the plants are just as equal as the animals. also, WE ARE ANIMALS, and omnivores, so we require a little meat and vegitable to be healthy. i can see why people wouldn't eat farmed animals, i don't eat them cause some of the farms torture their animals, and that every single animal in a farm will die, but in nature they have a chance to live. i am a hunter, and i eat what i kill. mushrooms will be living long after humans, so who's to say that we're better than anything else? as a species, we're failures, we'll be long dead in a million years. look at bacteria! they've been around for 3.5 billion and they'll be around for much much longer, though everything eventually ends, including life. though since carbon tends to naturally form organic substances it will be around again in different places. and there is no proof for a god, but there is proof against it, so it doesn't exist, and the concept of one is completely stupid! how would you explain time if it there was such a thing. representing fictional ideas an beleif in such is evil.

lol good one

I do remember talking to a committed vegetarian once, and convincing them that killing vegetables was just as cruel as killing animals. The next week she was only eating dairy products and other non fatal foodstuffs. I hope she survived.

Equality for all, would mean that, morally, there is nothing wrong with canabilism. (Yes there are medical problems, but it would not be morally wrong)

As a species, we happen to be a storming success. The measure of success of a species has to be its ability to reproduce and carve out a niche for itself in the environment. We just carved out a bigger damn niche than that of all the rest of trhe species put together. We number more than 6 billion, which for a large mammal, is pretty successful. Please do not interpret the carving out of a niche thing as me saying we are wrong and evil. We are not, we are natural animals, and if the others go to the wall in the competition, then they should have done better, not we should have done worse.

There is no proof against a God, anymore than there is one for a God, unless you have found a living Babel Fish that is.

If there is no God, and representing fictional ideas as real is wrong, then where did you come across a non fictional idea of "evil".
Morally wrong - exists, Stupid - exists, Nasty and Dangerous - exists.
Evil - a religous concept to categorise the other as dangerous. No equivalance in the perceived phenomena in the world.

And the angel of the Lord came unto me
Snatching me up from my place of slumber
And he took me on high and higher still
Till we moved to the spaces betwix the air itself
And he brought me into a vast farmland of our own midwest
And as we descended cries of impending doom rose up from the soil
And I begged "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams"
And he said unto me
"These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots
You see reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day, and to them
It is the holocaust."
And I sprang from my bed drenched with the tears of one million terrified brothers
And I roared "Hear me now! They have a life! They have a consciousness!
Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses!"
Can I get an Amen?
Baaaa
Can I get a Halleluja?
Baaaa
Thank you Jesus.


Maynard James Keenan

most veggies (me for example) don't eat meat because we don't want to kill species with feelings. a cow feels pain and has some feelings similar to our feelings of sadness and happiness. an onion not. an onion doesnt feel pain and doesn't feel happiness...

therefore... i don't eat meat, i don't use leather, but i eat plants and i kill annoying flies (insects have no feelings, that's proven).

about the christianity part... i'm agnosticus.

Who says an onion doesnt feel pain?

ya, i agree with you alien born, i just used evil for lack of better term, cause bad isn't really as powerfull. but if something has no proof for it or none against it, then doesn't it not exist? i use time as proof against it cause one theory of time, well it's kind of confusing in that it uses the 5th dimension to go back down to the fourth, but it supports itself better that way. it's that if space is curved in the 5th dimension, and we eventually reach ourselves when travelling in a straight line, but, by traveling in a very slightly different direction you will be travelling into an overlapping space of the other one, and with all directions, this leads to infinite places overlapping each other, if you layed them ontop of eachother you'd get one extra dimension that covered every point in the universe, by traveling down this dimension, you'd be travelling in time.
if plants don't have fealings how does a vine know when it's touch something to curl around it? it has to store the information somehow, and why do certian wild varieties of plants only bloom at the exact same time all around the world? phyllostachys vivax (bambusoideae, poacaea) for example.
and isn't wanting to reproduce an emotion? insects can tell that, they also know when their hungry.

we can feel because we have nerves and brains.
an onion has neither. that's a clear fact.
the facts that plants bloom at the same time has more to do with cell-structures, DNA, climatechanges etc. since they have no nerves, they can't know it.

insects have nerves, but no brains. they just registrate stimuli and react on those stimuli. without thinking. a bit like my doorbell... when someone pushes the button, it will registrate it and start screaming like hell... all without thinking or 'knowing' what it is doing.

a stalk of corn will scream out when it is cut, and it shakes from damage, showing nerves do exsist in plants. Corn also releases chimicals that attrack wasps to defend them, showing self preservation. White birtch trees share a common root structure in the ground, and when one tree is hit, the others will shudder.

Just because we don't comprehend or see the way plants communicate, doesn't mean they don't feel

At least I kill my food before eating it, think of those poor salads out there, being torn apart while still alive, and then digested.

And Vegans call meat eaters the mean ones.

woohoo! I'm evil! twice, even!

even if plants and animals were "equal" (whatever that means), why would someone choosing not to eat animals be evil? That's like saying people who refuse to eat brocolli are evil, since its equal to all the other plants (never mind religions like Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. that have dietary laws; clearly that makes them all evil).

and i didn't quite follow your proof about time; or how that related to god (if it was supposed to)...

This is necessary
Life feeds on life

Maynard James Keenan

a stalk of corn will scream out when it is cut, and it shakes from damage, showing nerves do exsist in plants. Corn also releases chimicals that attrack wasps to defend them, showing self preservation. White birtch trees share a common root structure in the ground, and when one tree is hit, the others will shudder.

Just because we don't comprehend or see the way plants communicate, doesn't mean they don't feel



i never heard corn scream to be honest... and i can explain why... because it has no organs to scream. nerves don't exist in plants. ask a biologist. take a microscope and examine cell per cell --> you'll find no nerves.
plants give chemicals to protect themselves: product of evolution --> those plants are programmed to do so (DNA) science does understand plants well enough to know that they have no nerves and thus no feelings.

At least I kill my food before eating it, think of those poor salads out there, being torn apart while still alive, and then digested.

And Vegans call meat eaters the mean ones.

:p

Everything is equal, so why therefore would you eat plants but not animals? the plants are just as equal as the animals. also, WE ARE ANIMALS, and omnivores, so we require a little meat and vegitable to be healthy. i can see why people wouldn't eat farmed animals, i don't eat them cause some of the farms torture their animals, and that every single animal in a farm will die, but in nature they have a chance to live. i am a hunter, and i eat what i kill. mushrooms will be living long after humans, so who's to say that we're better than anything else? as a species, we're failures, we'll be long dead in a million years. look at bacteria! they've been around for 3.5 billion and they'll be around for much much longer, though everything eventually ends, including life. though since carbon tends to naturally form organic substances it will be around again in different places. and there is no proof for a god, but there is proof against it, so it doesn't exist, and the concept of one is completely stupid! how would you explain time if it there was such a thing. representing fictional ideas an beleif in such is evil.

First on all, paragraphs were invented for a reason. Take a damn breath son, lol.

Second, I'm a vegetarian and I have no problem with people hunting their own food and eating what they kill, even though I would never do it. My biggest beef (pun shamelessly intended, so sue me ^^) is with factory farming, or should I just put it in its plainest term "unnatural, animal torture".

I don't hate you for killing your food and eating what you kill, so please lay off the damn "vegetarianism is evil" b.s. I've been vegetarian for 15 years now and I'm 117 lbs. 5'3" 36-27-36...ain't a damn thing evil about that, lol.

i never heard corn scream to be honest... and i can explain why... because it has no organs to scream. nerves don't exist in plants. ask a biologist. take a microscope and examine cell per cell --> you'll find no nerves.
plants give chemicals to protect themselves: product of evolution --> those plants are programmed to do so (DNA) science does understand plants well enough to know that they have no nerves and thus no feelings.



:p
Corn scream at a pitch that cannot be heard by human ears, so its obvious why people don't think of it, after all, if its not the same as humans, then it can't be the same.

Do single cell organisims have nerves? because last time I checked they were living and animals that didn't have a central nervous structure.

though i'm sure anything I say about plants having pain and such will be discredited though, I mean fish don't scream, and only recently did they find that they actually feel any form of pain.

a stalk of corn will scream out when it is cut, and it shakes from damage, showing nerves do exsist in plants. Corn also releases chimicals that attrack wasps to defend them, showing self preservation. White birtch trees share a common root structure in the ground, and when one tree is hit, the others will shudder.

Just because we don't comprehend or see the way plants communicate, doesn't mean they don't feel

At least I kill my food before eating it, think of those poor salads out there, being torn apart while still alive, and then digested.

And Vegans call meat eaters the mean ones.

Plants+ no central nervous system= a big DUH!

one cell organisms cannot have nerves. nerves ARE cells, not a part of a cell.

about your arguments about mystical screaming plants.... please keep this discussion going with scientific facts. otherwise we would end in "i believe it" or "i don't believe" it.

Who says an onion doesnt feel pain?

Yeah, really. I mean, who's had a chance to interview an onion and get the real onion story?

I bet onions secretly (obviously) communicate with one another.

"Well when my day comes, I hope they saute me with a good steak... so I die in the midst of sweet goo."

"F that, man. I want to go on a Big Mac. I want to be the ONION in 'two-all-beef-patties-special-sauce-lettuce-cheese-pickles-ONIONS-on-a-sesame-seed-bun!'"

"You're both way off. One of you wants to burn. The other wants to go down on top of barely-digestable beef. I hope when my day comes, I'm part of a great salad or RAW on a GOOD hamburger... like the new Thickburgers at Hardee's. At least that cow knew who his mama was!"

"McDonald's!"

"Hardee's!"

Sauteed onion: Ugh. Not this again.

i am a vegetarian, but am one because i never liked the flavour of meat. i think many things plants do are just something natural like how certain plants move with the sun, also i read from somewhere that plants will react to their surroundings like a bug of somsort comes around and the plant will send out a smell to "tell" other plants of its kind of the danger don't think it is truw though.

Morally wrong - exists

Only in the biological sense, my friend.

First of all, what's bad about killing stuff with feelings, torture, etc?
Most of the world's moral thinkers of history supported this stuff.

Second, a side to the vegetarians: how many of you would be okay with eating muscles that were cultured in a vat rather than ever being on an animal? Some say yes, some say no. Please input.

i am a vegetarian, but am one because i never liked the flavour of meat. i think many things plants do are just something natural like how certain plants move with the sun, also i read from somewhere that plants will react to their surroundings like a bug of somsort comes around and the plant will send out a smell to "tell" other plants of its kind of the danger don't think it is truw though.
Actually it is. Plants that are damaged will release chemicals that cause changes in plants near them. Some of these chemicals are species-specific, some are not. If you want to do a little experiment, take two unripe apples, a paper bag, and a bannana. Bruise the banana, place it in the bag with one apple. Leave the other apple out. The one in the bag with the bannana will ripen faster every time. It's because the ethane gas released by the bruised bannana will trigger the fruit to ripen.

In the meantime, someone explain to me why causing pain to animals is somehow alright if plants also feel pain, even though one does not need to eat animal flesh to survive?

How does the plants feel pain argument justify ANYTHING at all?

Second, a side to the vegetarians: how many of you would be okay with eating muscles that were cultured in a vat rather than ever being on an animal? Some say yes, some say no. Please input.

There's an interesting question. Well, as a vegetarian, I still wouldn't do it because I think that is the epitome of disgusting, but I don't see anything wrong with it ethically because the muscles on their own were never alive and never felt any pain upon the end of their existence.

yep... the apple in the bag will ripen faster. not because the banana tells the apple to do so, just because the banana releases chemicals that makes the apple ripen faster.
i have not heard a good argument that proves that plants feel pain yet.

First of all, what's bad about killing stuff with feelings, torture, etc?
Most of the world's moral thinkers of history supported this stuff.

Second, a side to the vegetarians: how many of you would be okay with eating muscles that were cultured in a vat rather than ever being on an animal? Some say yes, some say no. Please input.

first: that's just a personal opinion. some people think it's morally wrong to kill animals, some don't. no arguments for this, it's just what one considers moral.

second: i wouldn't have any problems with that, since no animal was killed to produce that meat. interesting issue though..

btw: new input to this thread: even if you think it's not morally wrong to eat animals, and if you think we should do everything to save our human-race, consider this:
1 hectare of land can feed:
3 people who eat lot's of meat
6 people who eat little meat
8 vegetarians
12 veganists

so.... eating less meat gives more people food...

would someone consider this argument as enough to not eat meat anymore?

yep... the apple in the bag will ripen faster. not because the banana tells the apple to do so, just because the banana releases chemicals that makes the apple ripen faster.
i have not heard a good argument that proves that plants feel pain yet.


first: that's just a personal opinion. some people think it's morally wrong to kill animals, some don't. no arguments for this, it's just what one considers moral.

second: i wouldn't have any problems with that, since no animal was killed to produce that meat. interesting issue though..

btw: new input to this thread: even if you think it's not morally wrong to eat animals, and if you think we should do everything to save our human-race, consider this:
1 hectare of land can feed:
3 people who eat lot's of meat
6 people who eat little meat
8 vegetarians
12 veganists

so.... eating less meat gives more people food...

would someone consider this argument as enough to not eat meat anymore?
No. It's not going to convince me not to eat meat. Let's just cut down on the surpluss population.

No, no, no! You guys are getting this all wrong (Even what I say is a bit wrong!). Especially the vegetarians. If we were not to eat meat, evolution or God or whatever the hell you believe in would not allow such a thing to happen. So eat meat (and veggies too)! The only way vegetarians could be justified is if they're digestive tract is incapable of digesting meat for medical reasons (I happen to know a few). And about plants not having feelings? That may be true, but what makes you so damn sure that your emotions, ideas, and actions aren't controlled by the stimuli of the outside world. Maybe consciousness doesn't exsist. Maybe we are just billions of atoms rubbing together. And another thing...meat eating animals? Duh...animals eat animals! I bet if a cave man turned into a vegetarian the other cave men would eat him for his own stupidity. Therefore cannibalism is okay! Wait...that's not what we were talking about...was it?

[QUOTE=Yupaenu]plants?QUOTE]
Deleted the stupid parts. For every animal a vegetarian at my school does not eat, I have resolved to eat 3 endangered animals, just as a hilarious "F*ck you, altruistic beliefs!"

There's no reason to believe that plants actually are self-aware and suffer.

Oh, I would like to point out that fruit WANTS to be eaten--it's supposed to be so that the seeds are digested and fertilized in the consumer's dung.

My philosophy: don't eat anything that runs away! ^^

There's no reason to believe that plants actually are self-aware and suffer.

Oh, I would like to point out that fruit WANTS to be eaten--it's supposed to be so that the seeds are digested and fertilized in the consumer's dung.

My philosophy: don't eat anything that runs away! ^^
My philosophy: don't eat anything that you can't kill.

If we were not to eat meat, evolution or God or whatever the hell you believe in would not allow such a thing to happen.

Oh, and if you read your Bible, haha, Adam and Eve were vegetarians until they were expelled from the Garden of Eden. Doesn't this suggest that meat is sinful, or at least not as pure as vegetation?

If I read the bible correctly they were kicked out for eating some fruit. FRUIT SUCKS THAT'S WHY! Okay...maybe that's a little harsh, but you can't deny my logic.

Oh, and if you read your Bible, haha, Adam and Eve were vegetarians until they were expelled from the Garden of Eden. Doesn't this suggest that meat is sinful, or at least not as pure as vegetation?
if you read your bible, haha, nobody ate meat until after the flood
wow, that was hilarious...

No, no, no! You guys are getting this all wrong (Even what I say is a bit wrong!). Especially the vegetarians. If we were not to eat meat, evolution or God or whatever the hell you believe in would not allow such a thing to happen.

God supposedly said thou shalt not kill....see how well that one went over.

So eat meat (and veggies too)! The only way vegetarians could be justified is if they're digestive tract is incapable of digesting meat for medical reasons (I happen to know a few).

The human digestive tract is meant to break down small amounts of meat, large amounts of vegetables, and large amounts of grain. I hardly see this coinciding in any way with the three fast food burger a day diets of modern man or the factory farming "culture" that has sprung up to facilitate it.

And about plants not having feelings? That may be true, but what makes you so damn sure that your emotions, ideas, and actions aren't controlled by the stimuli of the outside world. Maybe consciousness doesn't exsist. Maybe we are just billions of atoms rubbing together.

Maybe c.a.t. really spells dog??? 0_0

And another thing...meat eating animals? Duh...animals eat animals! I bet if a cave man turned into a vegetarian the other cave men would eat him for his own stupidity. Therefore cannibalism is okay! Wait...that's not what we were talking about...was it?


Animals eat meat out of instict because they lack a little thingy called a cerebrum. It's this advanced part of the brain that makes humans superior and different from animals by allowing us the ability to reason and ponder our surroundings. Thus, while statistics about how much land it takes to feed a meat eater, a vegeratian, etc. is lost on animals, it is fully comprehendable by humans. In short, you know better, and you have no excuse for when you ignore or willfully go against such knowledge.

show me proof God doesn't exist

There is also a proof the big bang didn't exist found by me

1. What about antimatter. Its proven to be real but not in the big bang theory.

Hmmmm. Now proof God exists:

Jesus

The Baltic sea

Spontaneous creation is impossible but things can exist since the begining of time.

Proof God doesn't exist:

... we will get back to you

show me proof God doesn't exist

There is also a proof the big bang didn't exist found by me

1. What about antimatter. Its proven to be real but not in the big bang theory.

Hmmmm. Now proof God exists:

Jesus

The Baltic sea

Spontaneous creation is impossible but things can exist since the begining of time.

Proof God doesn't exist:

... we will get back to you
God of the gaps? We don't know how (fill in blank) happened, therefore godidit. Fuck that. If we just assumed god did everything we would know nothing. Disease? God's will, no modern medicine Lighting? God's will. No electricity, etc.
Jesus is proof of religious hippies, not of god.
The baltic sea is a body of water, not a divine sign
You claim god existed from the beginning of time, why not the universe?
It's not up to me to prove god doesn't exist any more than it's up to you to prove I don't own a T Rex. Go ahead, try to prove I don't. If you can, I'll agree to prove god doesn't exist. Until then the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive statement.

Now for vegetarians. First humans primarily ate plants. Notice the past tense. The reason why our appendix is vestigal is because we don't need as much plants. Animals eat meat. It is far more efficient. Take this example vegetarians.

A. field of carrots about 100 carrots (example). Thats enough carrots to feed about 10 people less then a meal for a year.

B. field of carrots about a hundred carrots. Thats enough carrots to feed about two rabbits for a couple of months. The rabbits reproduce faster then the carrots. the average rabbit litter is about 8. The farmer shoots the rabbits leaving only 2 a boy and girl. Thats enough rabbits to feed 2 people four meals. The baby rabbits mature and reproduce the next year. Hmmm.

Anyway plants do have feelings. They used plants in a brain analyzer test to find a murderer who latter pleaded guilty. So if plants have feelings then you vegetarians will starve. If you think animals suffer then imagine plants. Living through all that sawing and burning what will that be like.

I do remember talking to a committed vegetarian once, and convincing them that killing vegetables was just as cruel as killing animals. The next week she was only eating dairy products and other non fatal foodstuffs. I hope she survived.

Equality for all, would mean that, morally, there is nothing wrong with canabilism. (Yes there are medical problems, but it would not be morally wrong)

As a species, we happen to be a storming success. The measure of success of a species has to be its ability to reproduce and carve out a niche for itself in the environment. We just carved out a bigger damn niche than that of all the rest of trhe species put together. We number more than 6 billion, which for a large mammal, is pretty successful. Please do not interpret the carving out of a niche thing as me saying we are wrong and evil. We are not, we are natural animals, and if the others go to the wall in the competition, then they should have done better, not we should have done worse.

There is no proof against a God, anymore than there is one for a God, unless you have found a living Babel Fish that is.

If there is no God, and representing fictional ideas as real is wrong, then where did you come across a non fictional idea of "evil".
Morally wrong - exists, Stupid - exists, Nasty and Dangerous - exists.
Evil - a religous concept to categorise the other as dangerous. No equivalance in the perceived phenomena in the world.


This God guy, he needs to be on a talk show, i mean, if were all here an we need to eat to survive, then the guy lacked some serious foresight man... unless...maybe we werent supposed to eat, like that guy who lives of the sun...ill try it and get back to ya in a week...

...damn im hungry...damn autotrophic b******* ...
:headbang:
anyway...nice HHGTTG quote...movie out in may...

God said it was okay for you to kill animals inorder to eat.

now for the guy/girl

You know what your attacking before attacking.

I got the sea wrong it was the red okay. Moses+redsea=parting

God's will isn't the same as reality. God wants us to be happy and sin-free
The devil is the reason for pestilence death suffering pain and all that.

I am a vegetarian. Albert Einstien was a vegetarian. Wasnt that guy really smart or something? I happen to get a little thing I like to call diarrhea every time I eat meat. I had that shit for every day of my life as a child. Until 2 years ago at thanksgiving I discovered that meat was the problem.
Heres a nice little tid bit by our favorite genius.

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
- Albert Einstein

:D

Now for vegetarians. First humans primarily ate plants. Notice the past tense. The reason why our appendix is vestigal is because we don't need as much plants. Animals eat meat. It is far more efficient. Take this example vegetarians.

A. field of carrots about 100 carrots (example). Thats enough carrots to feed about 10 people less then a meal for a year.

B. field of carrots about a hundred carrots. Thats enough carrots to feed about two rabbits for a couple of months. The rabbits reproduce faster then the carrots. the average rabbit litter is about 8. The farmer shoots the rabbits leaving only 2 a boy and girl. Thats enough rabbits to feed 2 people four meals. The baby rabbits mature and reproduce the next year. Hmmm.

thanks for proving my argument. what you say is that a field of carrots can feed 10 people for a year. and the same field with rabbits only 2 people.

to be serious now: keep in mind that animals require just more place PLUS those animals need food. lots of food... (37 % of the world grain production is used to feed animals for consumption.

Anyway plants do have feelings. They used plants in a brain analyzer test to find a murderer who latter pleaded guilty. So if plants have feelings then you vegetarians will starve. If you think animals suffer then imagine plants. Living through all that sawing and burning what will that be like.

anyone mind if i ignore those plant-arguments until someone actually comes up with a good, scientific argument?

Now for vegetarians. First humans primarily ate plants. Notice the past tense. The reason why our appendix is vestigal is because we don't need as much plants. Animals eat meat. It is far more efficient. Take this example vegetarians.

A. field of carrots about 100 carrots (example). Thats enough carrots to feed about 10 people less then a meal for a year.

B. field of carrots about a hundred carrots. Thats enough carrots to feed about two rabbits for a couple of months. The rabbits reproduce faster then the carrots. the average rabbit litter is about 8. The farmer shoots the rabbits leaving only 2 a boy and girl. Thats enough rabbits to feed 2 people four meals. The baby rabbits mature and reproduce the next year. Hmmm.

Anyway plants do have feelings. They used plants in a brain analyzer test to find a murderer who latter pleaded guilty. So if plants have feelings then you vegetarians will starve. If you think animals suffer then imagine plants. Living through all that sawing and burning what will that be like.

no offense, but are u serious? what u have stated is the exact opposite of the truth. lets go back a while...no still further back...there..

early man - i cant grow food because of poor capacity to learn and lack of knowledge. Choice . Find berries and bird droppings or kill deer and eat raw flesh (fire was a hot commodity - hard to come by). Ow, this raw deer meat has lot of bacteria and crap, its not easy to digest, lets see if my appendix which helps my immune system can help out..woah it did, thx lil buddy..

modern man - i can genetically engineer/grow cleaner, healthier foods foods such as vegetables to replace earlier uncooked meats. Plus, development of my body (ty darwin) has made me stronger, now i dont need my appendix, sorry ol buddy. (Damn You! i will now only function to rupture and infect!)

Point 2.

All energy as u smart ol kids now, comes from the sun. This energy is used by plants to grow - lots of energy stored in plant( no, more than that). Then about a tenth of that energy goes into animals. From that, people can get about a tenth of that energy from the animals. To explain involves fundamental thermo. , but i doubt ur reading this far anyway. regardless, each of ur damn reproducing bunnies needs the same if not more carrots to live off of.

anyway, ive lost the focus of this question through my rant on u, my bad...
:headbang:
to leave u...

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
-DA

I am a vegetarian. Albert Einstien was a vegetarian. Wasnt that guy really smart or something? I happen to get a little thing I like to call diarrhea every time I eat meat. I had that shit for every day of my life as a child. Until 2 years ago at thanksgiving I discovered that meat was the problem.
Heres a nice little tid bit by our favorite genius.

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
- Albert Einstein

:D

be carefull with naming famous veggies... A. Hitler and R. Hess were veggies too.... we can't say these were nice guys....

but what you quoted from einstein is true.

lol. hitler is fucked up. i am pleased to see my writting was quoted though. i thank thee.

The animals would eat plants...

Anyway, why don't vegetarians support hunting. If everyone hunted, then slaughterhouses would go out of business.

Animals eat meat out of instict because they lack a little thingy called a cerebrum.

Hate to break it to you, but humans do have instincts. Like the urge to procreate, and guess what else EAT. I'm not saying being a vegetarian is wrong, but calling a carnivore or omnivore immoral is wrong. It's human nature.

hunting IS killing animals. and it's just that i don't want to kill animals to eat as long as there are alternatives. and alternatives are there enough.

but there is one thing: if you hunt an animal that has lived in the free nature for its whole life, that's less cruel than "producing" animals in cages...

but there is one thing: if you hunt an animal that has lived in the free nature for its whole life, that's less cruel than "producing" animals in cages...

Yeah I have to agree with that. They taste alot better too...

I'm just saying vegetarians should support hunting so thee are less slaughterhouses.

Hunting = Driveby

Slaughterhouse = Genocide

Both I would not like to be in, but the driveby is way less cruel.

show me proof God doesn't exist

There is also a proof the big bang didn't exist found by me

1. What about antimatter. Its proven to be real but not in the big bang theory.

Hmmmm. Now proof God exists:

Jesus

The Baltic sea

Spontaneous creation is impossible but things can exist since the begining of time.

Proof God doesn't exist:

... we will get back to you


None of that is proof god exists, it is only proof to validate your own beliefs in a god, which is all good...

Hate to break it to you, but humans do have instincts. Like the urge to procreate, and guess what else EAT. I'm not saying being a vegetarian is wrong, but calling a carnivore or omnivore immoral is wrong. It's human nature.

eating meat is more like a tradition in my opinion... when we evolved to Homo Erectus on the african prairies we needed meat to survive. since then we always kept eating a little meat to add powerfull food to our veggie diet.
today we, in the western world have enough food of very high quality. we don't need meat anymore, but since we ate it that long, it became a tradition.

i would never call carnivores or omnivores immoral (who am i to judge?). i just do this for myself. i don't try to convince people all the time to become vegetarian (that would be as annoying as people who keep on saying that i shouldn't smoke...). but if people ask for my opinion, i will give my opinion.

Hunting at least gives the animal some chance that it will escape, however slight, having your existance reduced to fodder in a slaughter house for another species is for me, personally not right, thus vegetariansim, i am lucky enough to live where i have the choice and i choose to make the choice which fits with my idea of the way the world is...having said that if i was in the middle of nowhere and my only food source was an animal and it was me or him, i would do my darndest to make it me (that lived to chew another day that is), the impulse to survival...

As I've stated in another thread, I've only been a full-fledged meat eater for almost three months now.. after 12 years of vegetarianism.
Where I was a believer, I no longer am. I understand (and even commend, if only on the basis of pure intention) the reasoning behind the vegetarian lifestyle.
However, I feel that a lot of it (all of that energy) is misguided (and therefore, unfortunately wasted).
Everyone seems to be focusing on the fact that more food can be provided if people would use the land to grow veggies as opposed to producing livestock.
Fair enough, but so what? We're not hungry because of limited real estate!
There's plenty of room in Africa to grow these vegetables. Where are they?
Why, with all this land isn't it being used for growing crops, enough to feed the multitudes?
Because it's not about meat vs. veggies. It's about poverty.
I shouldn't be commended, really for not doing anything. If so, I should pat myself on the back everyday from refraining from rape and theft. Wow! I'm a hero!
It's easier to not do anything than to get up off your ass and do something.
Actively working for the extinction of hunger in the world (hard, and not very rewarding, but very admirable) is worth more than just refraining from doing something.
You'd be doing far more to ease real suffering in the world if you ate meat and volunteered at the local soup kitchen, rather than just denying yourself meat (or alcohol or tobacco or anything really).
At least be an active veggie and send all that money you save on quality meats to those who need it to eat at all.
Other than that, you're either picky or a health nut. Get active by doing something, not just abstaining from an activity or holding a preference.
Just don't brandish an ethical flag in the name of "passively" saving the world. It aint happenin'.
My love to the veggies, my ex-brethren. Even more love to those who eat meat and act to better the world we live in.
(Love the Tool quote btw)