NationStates Jolt Archive

The only fair way to allow or ban swastikas on flags is to have a vote.
Visit this link and vote and/or look at the poll results.
http://www.local10.com/news/4090500/detail.html

I imagine we'd get the same results here at NationStates. If the mods conduct a survey of all nations and at least 51% are in favour of allowing swastikas on flags, then I see no reason why the mods (or anyone else for that matter), could argue against the will of the people.

I'll conduct a survey of my own, and if we get 51% of the vote, I think the mods owe it to the people to give us a real chance to have our say, once and for all.

There's no reason to ban the swastika, it is not a piece of Nazi material, it's a symbol, when you have to ban symbols are you that insecure or that afraid of the past. And its not respect for the dead to simply try and supress all mention of the party in the wrong.

It's just another example of over the top censorship. Let the fascists have their pathetic symbol, it's only going to discourage people from joining them when they see what extremists they are.
Besides, there are plenty of other racist symbols that these people can, will and do bust out at any moment, trying to ban them is ridiculous

If the swastika goes, the hammer and sickle should go too. And the cross, that is often followed by abusive extremists. Get rid of all organisation symbols.

No, its stupid. The Swastika is a holy symbol to a number of religions, it is not pathetic because it is a SYMBOL, it means only what you read it to believe.

I voted yes. It makes it easier to spot the assholes.

The only fair way to allow or ban swastikas on flags is to have a vote.
Visit this link and vote and/or look at the poll results.
http://www.local10.com/news/4090500/detail.html

I imagine we'd get the same results here at NationStates. If the mods conduct a survey of all nations and at least 51% are in favour of allowing swastikas on flags, then I see no reason why the mods (or anyone else for that matter), could argue against the will of the people.

I'll conduct a survey of my own, and if we get 51% of the vote, I think the mods owe it to the people to give us a real chance to have our say, once and for all.

They could ignore the will of the people because Max, the owner and proprietor of this website, has deemed them to be offensive and thereby banned. It wouldn't matter if 100% of the people said they wanted swastikas to be allowed. Max has decided that he doesn't want them on his website, and until he changes his mind, there isn't a damned thing we can do. As long as this remains a free game that Max graciously pays for, he can decide to ban or allow whatever he likes.

It wouldn't matter if 100% of the people said they wanted swastikas to be allowed. Max has decided that he doesn't want them on his website, and until he changes his mind, there isn't a damned thing we can do.

This is exactly why we need to have a vote, bring him the results, and show him that at least half of those playing his game are NOT offended.

This is exactly why we need to have a vote, bring him the results, and show him that at least half of those playing his game are NOT offended.

What on earth do the people who play the game matter?: he owns it.

This is exactly why we need to have a vote, bring him the results, and show him that at least half of those playing his game are NOT offended.

It.

Doesn't.

Matter.

What.

We.

Think.

As long as Max pays for this site out of his own pocket, as long as he provides us with a free game to enjoy, we have no actual say in how the game is run. We can bring suggestions to him, but he only has to accept them out of the goodness of his heart. Max and [violet] have repeatedly stated that the ban on swastikas is NOT coming down, no matter what people wish.

I'll conduct a survey of my own, and if we get 51% of the vote, I think the mods owe it to the people to give us a real chance to have our say, once and for all.
This is quite an unofficial poll, I hope you know. The results are not necessarily representative of NS.

What on earth do the people who play the game matter?: he owns it.

If he didnt care about the people, why is the site still here? Why does Max still pay for us to play the game if he doesnt care about us?

Does anyone else aside from me see the irony of trying to organise a supposedly democratic vote to determine whether an anti-democratic emblem can be used?

If he didnt care about the people, why is the site still here? Why does Max still pay for us to play the game if he doesnt care about us?

Because it serves as advertising for his novels.

This is quite an unofficial poll, I hope you know. The results are not necessarily representative of NS.

Yes, its unofficial right now. But if enough people vote yes, we might be able to persuade them to give us an official vote.

If he didnt care about the people, why is the site still here? Why does Max still pay for us to play the game if he doesnt care about us?

The site exists as a clever marketting tool for his book, Jennifer Government. That is its purpose, plain and simple. He didn't make the site because he had all this extra money lying around and he wanted to provide the internet with another game to play. I guarantee you that once this site starts costing him more money to maintain than he makes in book sales, he'll get rid of it (probably).

If you really want to show your distaste for Mr. Barry's policies, don't buy his book.

Does anyone else aside from me see the irony of trying to organise a supposedly democratic vote to determine whether an anti-democratic emblem can be used?

The sybbol itself represents nothing. It has many uses, and many meanings. All of which should be allowed.
Not to offend [violet], but it would seem rather closed-minded to ignore to request of the majority.

Max can care about more than one thing at a time. He can easily care that we are having fun and playing the game etc.whilst at the same time care that he, and others, it does not matter how many, find the symbolism of the Nazi regime offensive.

The site exists as a clever marketting tool for his book, Jennifer Government. That is its purpose, plain and simple. He didn't make the site because he had all this extra money lying around and he wanted to provide the internet with another game to play. I guarantee you that once this site starts costing him more money to maintain than he makes in book sales, he'll get rid of it (probably).


There are a lot less expensive ways to advertise, not too mention the complexity. This site means more to Max than just advertising.

I thought this was the EU swatsticka thread. Sorry.

The game belongs to Max.

What he says goes.

The game was created to advertise his fine novels, that is why it is free and therefore Max is all powerful and makes the decisions.

Frankly if you don't like the fact you can't use Swastika's don't play the game or use a different flag.

The sybbol itself represents nothing. It has many uses, and many meanings. All of which should be allowed.
Not to offend [violet], but it would seem rather closed-minded to ignore to request of the majority.

Close-minded, perhaps, but it would be arrogant to assume that they should acknowledge the majority just because you want them to.

There are a lot less expensive ways to advertise, not too mention the complexity. This site means more to Max than just advertising.

Maybe. But it still doesn't matter. It's Max's privately funded site, and until you're paying to play this game, your opinion means precisely dick. He has repeatedly stated that no matter what the general population of the game thinks, he will not unban swastikas. I'd suggest you learn to deal with it, or go make your own game.

Frankly if you don't like the fact you can't use Swastika's don't play the game or use a different flag.

I do use a different flag (obviously).

Does anyone else see the irony in banning the use of a swastica?
They are oppressing us because the 3000 year old symbol was briefly used as a symbol of oppression.

The sybbol itself represents nothing. It has many uses, and many meanings. All of which should be allowed.
Not to offend [violet], but it would seem rather closed-minded to ignore to request of the majority.

This is one of the problems with democracy, because the country is governed by popular vote, there is a culture that the popular vote should rule in everything and everywhere. Nation States is a private site, created, maintained and published for your pleasure and information. If you do not like this, and think that it should be democratically controlled, then you are free to set up just such a system yourself.

Why is everyone bashing this guy about his poll? It's just a poll, if he takes it to Max and Max says no it happens, he says yes, great, either way. Give the guy some space why don't ya.

He has repeatedly stated that no matter what the general population of the game thinks, he will not unban swastikas.

Once again I must point out the irony of running this site like a dictator, while banning the use of the swastika.

Once again I must point out the irony of running this site like a dictator, while banning the use of the swastika.

I don't see how that pertains to anything.

Once again I must point out the irony of running this site like a dictator, while banning the use of the swastika.

Once again I must point out the irony of attempting to organise a democratic poll, in order to allow the use of the swastika.

I voted yes. It makes it easier to spot the assholes.

In real life, I agree with Drunk commies, however this is a game. The person who made the game has the right to decide what they would like and not like in it.
If I made a game and some one else wanted to change it in a way I did not like I would say make your own game.

Why is everyone bashing this guy about his poll? It's just a poll, if he takes it to Max and Max says no it happens, he says yes, great, either way. Give the guy some space why don't ya.

Well, personally, I have literally seen this exact same topic a hundred times or more on this site. "Unban the swastika! It's not fair to ban a symbol!" It's tiresome. Max has made it abundantly clear that he will under no circumstances allow flags to display the swastika. But somehow people continue to believe that they have a right to do whatever they want on someone else's website. It's annoying, and it pisses me off. That's why I'm "bashing" him.

Once again I must point out the irony of attempting to organise a democratic poll, in order to allow the use of the swastika.

For the last time, only in the last century has the symbol had a political message. I do not view it as a political message. The symbol is not inherently political, and judging by the poll results, most people agree.

The symbol itself represents nothing.

If that symbol means nothing then there is no such thing as symbols and no meaning to anything.

To any but the most willfully ignorant it certainly has meaning. To pretend it doesn't is to advertise gross historical illiteracy.

There needs be no "solution" to this question, because there is no problem. It is not allowed.

And rightfully so.

For the last time, only in the last century has the symbol had a political message. I do not view it as a political message. The symbol is not inherently political, and judging by the poll results, most people agree.

It doesn't matter. Max won't unban it no matter what. And a poll in the General forum is hardly indicitive of the general playing population as a whole.

Yes, its unofficial right now. But if enough people vote yes, we might be able to persuade them to give us an official vote.
How many people play NS? Assuming the average person has 2 nations, that's somewhere around 65,000 people. If 200 people vote, even 1,000 people, that's still a very small sampling.

For the last time, only in the last century has the symbol had a political message. I do not view it as a political message. The symbol is not inherently political, and judging by the poll results, most people agree.
Who cares. Max can say he bans the swastika because it doesn't fit with his furniture, and you can't do a thing about it.

Who cares. Max can say he bans the swastika because it doesn't fit with his furniture, and you can't do a thing about it.

Exactly! Max could ban the letter "E" if he wanted, or he could ban the color yellow, or he could ban the use of the word "the" after prepositions, or any of a million other silly and nonsensical ideas he felt like, and we'd be powerless to stop him. He doesn't need to justify the banning of the swastika, because this is his private property on the internet.

There needs be no "solution" to this question, because there is no problem. It is not allowed.

If there was no problem, this poll wouldnt exist. Apparently this topic has been brought up time and time again, indicating to me that it IS a problem.
Clearly the people want the freedom to use the swastika. Banning it only feeds into the growing resentment. If there wasnt such a taboo around the use of the swastika, then I agree there would be no problem.

By banning the swastika, you are perpetuating the cycle of this topic.

If there was no problem, this poll wouldnt exist. Apparently this topic has been brought up time and time again, indicating to me that it IS a problem.
Clearly the people want the freedom to use the swastika. Banning it only feeds into the growing resentment. If there wasnt such a taboo around the use of the swastika, then I agree there would be no problem.

By banning the swastika, you are perpetuating the cycle of this topic.

yawn

If there was no problem, this poll wouldnt exist. Apparently this topic has been brought up time and time again, indicating to me that it IS a problem.
Clearly the people want the freedom to use the swastika. Banning it only feeds into the growing resentment. If there wasnt such a taboo around the use of the swastika, then I agree there would be no problem.

By banning the swastika, you are perpetuating the cycle of this topic.

You're not getting this. MAX DOESN'T CARE!

Sdaeriji, you seem to be under the false assumption that I care what you have to offer this thread.

Of course, this brings up the question: Why do you want to use a Swastika so much?

Do you dearly wish to celebrate Hinduism using that particular symbol (the reversed swastika)? Are you a nazi who wishes to display this political affiliation on your NS flag? Are you just 'safeguarding your right to free speech'?

Sdaeriji, you seem to be under the false assumption that I care what you have to offer this thread.

And you seem to be under the false assumption that Max gives a rat's ass that you want to use a swastika.

Of course, this brings up the question: Why do you want to use a Swastika so much?

Do you dearly wish to celebrate Hinduism using that particular symbol (the reversed swastika)? Are you a nazi who wishes to display this political affiliation on your NS flag? Are you just 'safeguarding your right to free speech'?

Or are you, "Hitler Jugend," a discontented hormonal teen age boy looking for instant shock value by adopting a symbol that represents, to you, nothing more than the ability to piss people off and draw attention to yourself?

In regards to Palmira's post, yes I am simply attempting to safeguard our freedom of expression.

As for Sdaeriji, unless you know Max personally please do not speak on his behalf. I'm sure he does not appreciate strangers putting words in his mouth.

Or are you, "Hitler Jugend," a discontented hormonal teen age boy looking for instant shock value by adopting a symbol that represents, to you, nothing more than the ability to piss people off and draw attention to yourself?

First off, no I am not. Secondly, the more the swastika is banned, the more people will want to use it.....just like telling a child they cannot have something. If the taboo was removed from the swastika, you would actually see a decline in its use.

In regards to Palmira's post, yes I am simply attempting to safeguard our freedom of expression.

As for Sdaeriji, unless you know Max personally please do not speak on his behalf. I'm sure he does not appreciate strangers putting words in his mouth.
He's said that he won't unban swastikas. No words are being put into his mouth.

In regards to Palmira's post, yes I am simply attempting to safeguard our freedom of expression.

As for Sdaeriji, unless you know Max personally please do not speak on his behalf. I'm sure he does not appreciate strangers putting words in his mouth.

Rest assured. It is safeguarded. The government isn't stopping you from flying a Nazi flag (do you have one hanging from your porch?).

Private individuals, such as Max Berry, have the right to set any parameters they like on their private web sites. You are just as free to set up your own if this one doesn't satisfy you.

In regards to Palmira's post, yes I am simply attempting to safeguard our freedom of expression.
There is no freedom of expression to begin with. We're on someone's private property here... the owner of the property has decided that his guests should not be allowed to post spam, pornography, and swastikas. Deal with it.

As for Sdaeriji, unless you know Max personally please do not speak on his behalf. I'm sure he does not appreciate strangers putting words in his mouth.

Max and the admins on this site have on many occasions made it abundantly clear that the swastika will not be allowed no matter how many loud Nazis come and make threads that go nowhere.

He's said that he won't unban swastikas. No words are being put into his mouth.

Something tells me Max has never used the term "rats ass" when referring to me.

In regards to Palmira's post, yes I am simply attempting to safeguard our freedom of expression.

As for Sdaeriji, unless you know Max personally please do not speak on his behalf. I'm sure he does not appreciate strangers putting words in his mouth.

Although your name does suggest that you have more than a passing interest in Naziism.

Sdaeriji wasn't putting words into Max's mouth. Max has made this very clear on many occasions, if you look in the FAQ you will see. He won't change his mind, why don't you just use an SS symbol or something like that if you really want to use offensive imagery.

Oh, and I'm Chicken Pi, actually. I think I should really get rid of my gigantic sig, man...

...the more the swastika is banned, the more people will want to use it.....just like telling a child they cannot have something. If the taboo was removed from the swastika, you would actually see a decline in its use.

Ah, so by your logic we could eliminate crime if we just did away with laws against murder, rape, assault, theft, etc.?

Take away the taboo.

Interesting...but stupid.

i am totally agains any nazi-ideology, but i voted yes.
why?

- i'm not offended by it.
- since this is a political game, all people have the right to express there (different) political views. this includes symbols.
- this games provides the option of creating historical nations or even play historical RP. What is a simulation of WWII without swastika's?
- many other symbols were abused in history. (Caesar Nero used the peace-symbol with his systematic murder on the early Christians...)

but that's just my opinion. in the end it's Max Barry who decides. he owns this site and everything on it...
i just wanted to make a contribution to this without the usual "it just can't, you stupid, go play elsewhere" bashing.

Ah, so by your logic we could eliminate crime if we just did away with laws against murder, rape, assault, theft, etc.?

Take away the taboo.

Interesting...but stupid.


If you're going to spew random illiterate thoughts, I'm sure no one wants to hear them. Laws against rape cannot be compared to the taboo around the swastika. You completely missed the point. Please educate yourself a little more before posting worthless comments. We'd all appreciate it. Thanks.

If you're going to spew random illiterate thoughts, I'm sure no one wants to hear them. Laws against rape cannot be compared to the taboo around the swastika. You completely missed the point. Please educate yourself a little more before posting worthless comments. We'd all appreciate it. Thanks.

Don't insult people, it's just a sign that you're losing the argument and you're too proud to admit it.

Don't insult people, it's just a sign that you're losing the argument and you're too proud to admit it.

Actually, I'm trying to maintain a decent level of academia here.

I imagine we'd get the same results here at NationStates. If the mods conduct a survey of all nations and at least 51% are in favour of allowing swastikas on flags, then I see no reason why the mods (or anyone else for that matter), could argue against the will of the people.

Because this is a private site owned by Max Barry. What Max says is law.

This has been debated countless numbers of times and is not open to further discussion.

If there was no problem, this poll wouldnt exist. Apparently this topic has been brought up time and time again, indicating to me that it IS a problem.
Clearly the people want the freedom to use the swastika. Banning it only feeds into the growing resentment. If there wasnt such a taboo around the use of the swastika, then I agree there would be no problem.

By banning the swastika, you are perpetuating the cycle of this topic.

Oppression? You may use the swastika anywhere you like, except on flags on this single site. There's a whole world wide web out there.

Correction. You may post them in threads, just not on flags.