NationStates Jolt Archive

No, it was an attack against an enemy we were fighting in a war. Unfortunatly, was is about breaking things and killing people.
Yep, killing people... Who were mostly civilians.

It's fair to say you've resisted the urge since. But one day the hawks will win and they'll be used again. You came close to using them to destroy the USSR before they could develop their own. If nukes are still around they will be used again eventually, hence disarmament is the only safe solution. Even if it takes decades or centuries on a gradual basis.
Disarmament is a pipe dream. The only workable strategy is to limit their availability to other nations until they become stable and rational.

I don't trust them not to. I've been around long enough to know that some people shouldn't be trusted.
I do trust them they have wise leadership. I don't trust the US.

The USA only looks for its own interest and they don't hide it.
and what is wrong with looking out for #1

Bush's being one of them. He's the one waging war all the time, you will notice.
Another MKULTRA clone. The damned things are multiplying! Groan! :(

Twice? You sure about that? (obviously you're not)

WWI, WWII

"They looked us in a nasty way, so we are going to teack them a lesson"
They bombed two of our embasies, one of our naval vessels, our nation's capital, and our biggest city twice.

So you would rather see a multitude of countries, most with little or no comittment to democracy, freedom, rationality, peace, or virtually anything except their own demented ideas about religion, with nuclear weapons? That truly verges on insanity! The potential for catastrophe increases geometrically with the increase in the number of nations possessing nuclear capabilities.


If you'd read all my posts you'd know that I am for EVERY nation disarming and I even went so far as to say I could even understand an attack on Iran's nuclear programme to stop it. What I find disgusting is the thought of another invasion/massacre.

Disarmament is a pipe dream. The only workable strategy is to limit their availability to other nations until they become stable and rational.
the US is another nation too.

I do trust them they have wise leadership. I don't trust the US.

Well, the US trusts the US. Go back and read my Three Laws.

First Law states that Our survival will be more important than their survival.

Can you name a nation in history who, when given a choice between themselves and another nation, chose the other nation?

In the event that a nuclear nation attacks us.

And why would a nuclear nation attack you? Because they hate you? If so, why do they hate you?

Covert Ops? Declaring war on them perhaps?

and what is wrong with looking out for #1
The point is that is doesn't care about democracy rationalisation and stuff.

They bombed two of our embasies, one of our naval vessels, our nation's capital, and our biggest city twice.Killing people with bombs is wrong, but don't you think they had a motive?

Well, the US trusts the US. Go back and read my Three Laws.

First Law states that Our survival will be more important than their survival.

Can you name a nation in history who, when given a choice between themselves and another nation, chose the other nation?
I know but what I find disturbing is the people here who seem to defend the US as if they were the US.

Killing people with bombs is wrong, but don't you think they had a motive?
yes a blind hatred of america

Their islamic radicals bent on destroying every christian nation that won't let terror reign

WWI, WWII

Wrong. Go read your first history book ;)

And why would a nuclear nation attack you? Because they hate you? If so, why do they hate you?

Covert Ops? Declaring war on them perhaps?

No, because we're the Great Satan, that nation of infidels with that infidel lifestyle. Heaven knows they're worried, because they've banned individually owned satellite TV dishes. They don't want Western TV programming (porn in particular) to affect their culture.

Contact between our culture and theirs, in their minds, will destroy their culture. Can't have that, now, can we?

No, because we're the Great Satan, that nation of infidels with that infidel lifestyle. Heaven knows they're worried, because they've banned individually owned satellite TV dishes. They don't want Western TV programming (porn in particular) to affect their culture.

Contact between our culture and theirs, in their minds, will destroy their culture. Can't have that, now, can we?
dont forget that they dont like us helping them in any way

yes a blind hatred of america

Why would they have a blind hatred do you think?

Something done in the interests of the US, perhaps?

Funny. I can't see are you kidding or not.
I'm not.

No, because we're the Great Satan, that nation of infidels with that infidel lifestyle. Heaven knows they're worried, because they've banned individually owned satellite TV dishes. They don't want Western TV programming (porn in particular) to affect their culture.

Contact between our culture and theirs, in their minds, will destroy their culture. Can't have that, now, can we?
IN IRAN???????
In Yemen perhaps but not in Iran.

Why would they have a blind hatred do you think?

Something done in the interests of the US, perhaps?
no from birth they are tought to hate america

Why would they have a blind hatred do you think?

Something done in the interests of the US, perhaps?

Yes, we're not generally an Islamic country with a constitution based on Sharia. That certainly doesn't help.

Why are they fighting other muslisms then instead on concentrating on the infidels?
Because the other muslims are apostates. They don't embrace the "true" vision of islam and are puppets of the infidel.

no from birth they are tought to hate america
Ouch where did you see that?
Iran is not Yemen.

I'm not.Oh. Then it is not funny. It is sad as hell.

Yep, killing people... Who were mostly civilians.

Unfortunately during WW II we did not have precision weapons and the colateral damage was a lot worse then than it is now. We needed to destroy their war making capability (factories) which are legitimate targets in any war. Unfortunately a lot of Japans production of war supplies was made in "cottage industrues." "Paper houses" didn't help the situation either.

No, because we're the Great Satan, that nation of infidels with that infidel lifestyle. Heaven knows they're worried, because they've banned individually owned satellite TV dishes. They don't want Western TV programming (porn in particular) to affect their culture.

Contact between our culture and theirs, in their minds, will destroy their culture. Can't have that, now, can we?

The Great Satan name does not come about from the culture of America but the support by the US of the Shah.

Iran actually allows individually owned satellites, and does have foreign porn channels that can be viewed.

How about you dismantle your new nuke programme - bunker busters first?
No.

Unfortunately during WW II we did not have precision weapons and the colateral damage was a lot worse then than it is now. We needed to destroy their war making capability (factories) which are legitimate targets in any war. Unfortunately a lot of Japans production of war supplies was made in "cottage industrues." "Paper houses" didn't help the situation either.
I understand that. You also finished the war, but still... Those bombs should never have been dropped.

Yes, we're not generally an Islamic country with a constitution based on Sharia. That certainly doesn't help.
In Germany the christians democrats are the same as the islamic democrats in Iran.
Iran is an islamic REPUBLIC.

And your nukes will help?
The ability to utterly destroy a nation does wonders when you are trying to prevent them from attacking you. It only works if the other nation is rational enough to know that their deaths won't result in an eternity in paradise with 72 virgins. In the case some idiot decides to attack us with nuclear weapons we can hit back quickly and hard enough to make sure they don't send a few more our way.

Responsible?! Remember Nagasaki & Hiroshima!
Why? Those were responsible and necessary to avoid massive casualties on both sides which would result from an invasion of the Japanese home islands.

You've probably heard the story, denied by the bush administration, that the US has been watching Iran's nuclear and missile sites in preparation for attacking them. Do you think an attack vs. Iran is really comming?

I very sincerely hope not, but I suspect that it just might go down that way. We are turning completely into the worlds police and, if we continue this "destory any potential threat" regardless of whether or not they have committed a crime against us we will start to resemble ancient Rome. A scary prospect.

As an individual who voted Rep. in the last 2 elections, I hope that isn't the case. For the first time in my life the next election may make the Dem. party the lesser of the 2 evils. Very Very scary indeed! :eek:

But germanys not the whole world now is it? Nope fraid not, sorry, but 85 million against 6 billion don't do much for persuasion

No.

Of course. How silly of me. Constructing new 'low' yield nukes that you feel you can use without overwhelming political flack is a brilliant way of demonstrating your distaste of WMDs!

I understand that. You also finished the war, but still... Those bombs should never have been dropped.

Catch 22. If we did not drop them more lives on both sides would have been lost when the allies invaded mainland Japan. What were out alternatives? None.

I understand that. You also finished the war, but still... Those bombs should never have been dropped.
so instead you wanted us to invade japan fight women and children who were ordered to kill americans at all cost and suffer more casualties than both the bombs put together.

Why? Those were responsible and necessary to avoid massive casualties on both sides which would result from an invasion of the Japanese home islands.Killing thousands of civilians is still wrong.

I think some people here need to update themselves. Iran is the beacon of democracy in the middle east. Islam does not mean Ossama ben laden.

so instead you wanted us to invade japan fight women and children who were ordered to kill americans at all cost and suffer more casualties than both the bombs put together.All I said was that using nuclear weapons is wrong!

I do trust them they have wise leadership. I don't trust the US.
Wise leadership doesn't have legions of pimple faced teens with truncheons enforcing religious law. Wise leadership doesn't disqualify popular candidates from running for office. Wise leadership tries to make peace with the world's superpower in order to gain wealth and power for it's nation, rather than antagonize it and bring about ruin for their people.

I think some people here need to update themselves. Iran is the beacon of democracy in the middle east. Islam does not mean Ossama ben laden.
beacon of democracy my a$$

Killing thousands of civilians is still wrong.

True. But sometimes one wrong is less wrong than another wrong, no matter how distasteful it may be.

If your gonna make Al-qaeda look good, atleast spell the leaders name right

it's Osama Bin Laden

the US is another nation too.
A stable and rational one when it comes to using nuclear weapons.

Wise leadership doesn't have legions of pimple faced teens with truncheons enforcing religious law. Wise leadership doesn't disqualify popular candidates from running for office. Wise leadership tries to make peace with the world's superpower in order to gain wealth and power for it's nation, rather than antagonize it and bring about ruin for their people.
WTF are you talking about?

Their islamic radicals bent on destroying every christian nation that won't let terror reign
Exactly! The ultimate aims of the Islamists are:

1. Totally destroy the State of Israel.

2. Re-establish the Cliphate.

3. Convert every nation on the earth to Islam so that the Islamists can assume their rightful place as authority over the unbelievers as directed by Allah.

beacon of democracy my a$$No, beacon of democracy in the middle east in your a$$.

A stable and rational one when it comes to using nuclear weapons.
we have had them for about 60 years and used 2 for a good reason

Killing people with bombs is wrong, but don't you think they had a motive?
Not a just one. The creation of a global islamofascist theocracy is a motive, but not a just one.

Exactly! The ultimate aims of the Islamists are:

1. Totally destroy the State of Israel.

2. Re-establish the Cliphate.

3. Convert every nation on the earth to Islam so that the Islamists can assume their rightful place as authority over the unbelievers as directed by Allah.
You watch too much ben laden tapes.

Not a just one. The creation of a global islamofascist theocracy is a motive, but not a just one.There are bad apples in every basked, don't you agree?
EDIT: No one will blow him/herself up for nothing.

Not a just one. The creation of a global islamofascist theocracy is a motive, but not a just one.
true

Look you bunch of foreign arseholes.

It is NOT OUR FAULT THAT THE INVASION WAS LAUNCHED, because I DOUBT ANYONE HERE IS A CABINET MEMBER

You can make fun of George Bush all you want, but the US people have done nothing but stick up for our nation's pride, glory, and honor, while defending it's citizens views.

GO back to hoeing the garden or shooting christians, whatever you Terrorist loving arseholes do in your spare time.

The USA only looks for its own interest and they don't hide it.
And this is different from other nations how???

beacon of democracy my a$$
Of course they're not as democratic as the most democratic nation on earth. The US is the most democratic and the freest and they have the biggest dick and stuff. The US is the light on earth. They are the real god country and they will bring heaven on people. Everything else is barbarian.

Look you bunch of foreign arseholes.

It is NOT OUR FAULT THAT THE INVASION WAS LAUNCHED, because I DOUBT ANYONE HERE IS A CABINET MEMBER

You can make fun of George Bush all you want, but the US people have done nothing but stick up for our nation's pride, glory, and honor, while defending it's citizens views.

GO back to hoeing the garden or shooting christians, whatever you Terrorist loving arseholes do in your spare time.

Did someone just lose their argument along with their temper!

And this is different from other nations how???Because USA moves from thoughts to the acts.

Look you bunch of foreign arseholes.

It is NOT OUR FAULT THAT THE INVASION WAS LAUNCHED, because I DOUBT ANYONE HERE IS A CABINET MEMBER

You can make fun of George Bush all you want, but the US people have done nothing but stick up for our nation's pride, glory, and honor, while defending it's citizens views.

GO back to hoeing the garden or shooting christians, whatever you Terrorist loving arseholes do in your spare time.
great stuff man

And this is different from other nations how???
It's not. You said they were different than Iran which they are not

if u guys really hate what we are doing so much do something about it.

if u guys really hate what we are doing so much do something about it.
Like? Taking a knife on a plane?

Yep, killing people... Who were mostly civilians.
Oh, you mean kinda like the Japanese did when they slaughtered almost a million Chinese when they conducted the "Rape of Nanking," among other atrocities almost too numerous to mention!

You seriously need to get a grip!

Look you bunch of foreign arseholes.

It is NOT OUR FAULT THAT THE INVASION WAS LAUNCHED, because I DOUBT ANYONE HERE IS A CABINET MEMBER

You can make fun of George Bush all you want, but the US people have done nothing but stick up for our nation's pride, glory, and honor, while defending it's citizens views.

GO back to hoeing the garden or shooting christians, whatever you Terrorist loving arseholes do in your spare time.Ahem... Afraid to discuss, are you? By the way, I'm a christian.

P.S have you ever heard "Afraid to shoot strangers" by Iron Maiden?

Ouch where did you see that?
Iran is not Yemen.
In Iran anti-american slogans are written everywhere. Part of the embassy where the hostages were taken has been turned into an anti-American museum. Iran has made hatred of the USA a second state religion.

o! But wait! YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, because you can't take us down on your own, and even a coaltion couldn't take us and our allies down.

All you can do is sit and whine and bicker as we spread democracy. While the french sit with their white flag with a sign saying *Will help for cash*

Like? Taking a knife on a plane?
just try it

if u guys really hate what we are doing so much do something about it.

Well I contribute to Amnesty International every month and they do their best to stop torture and internment of political prisoners. Therefore I'm doing about all I can to stop you doing those actions that are WRONG.

In Iran anti-american slogans are written everywhere. Part of the embassy where the hostages were taken has been turned into an anti-American museum. Iran has made hatred of the USA a second state religion.And in USA, anti-islam slogans are written...

In Germany the christians democrats are the same as the islamic democrats in Iran.
Iran is an islamic REPUBLIC.
Where the Mullahs have final say on who can and can't run for election, and send religious police to enforce morality. Some republic.

It's not. You said they were different than Iran which they are not
What are you saying here? That the US is no different from Iran?

Dumber than a box of hair.

In Iran anti-american slogans are written everywhere. Part of the embassy where the hostages were taken has been turned into an anti-American museum. Iran has made hatred of the USA a second state religion.
The ayatollahs are trying to calm down the population. Bush calling them the axis of evil doesn't help. The government is calling for peace. The population is anti-US like any other country.

o! But wait! YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, because you can't take us down on your own, and even a coaltion couldn't take us and our allies down.

All you can do is sit and whine and bicker as we spread democracy. While the french sit with their white flag with a sign saying *Will help for cash*We do not want to take you down. Just breathe, man. Calm down.

I think some people here need to update themselves. Iran is the beacon of democracy in the middle east. Islam does not mean Ossama ben laden.
Iran is a beacon of democracy? What have you been smoking? Do you remember what happened during their last election?

What are you saying here? That the US is no different from Iran?

Dumber than a box of hair.


And your as bright as mud puddle, so your both even

WTF are you talking about?
The current conditions in Iran.

just try it
Bring it on!
Stupid. Learn from your mistakes.

And in USA, anti-islam slogans are written...
Find one. Just one. I want a photo of it and a link to read about it. All I ask is one.

[QUOTE=Justinopian Kingdom]

All you can do is sit and whine and bicker as we spread democracy. QUOTE]

Iran is far, far from perfect, but democracy is spreading there. Don't forget that America's only been democratic since the 60s (allowing all blacks to vote) and even the UK's only been democratic since 1918 (allowing women to vote).

Iran is a beacon of democracy? What have you been smoking? Do you remember what happened during their last election?Beacon of democracy in the middle east...

The current conditions in Iran.
You watch too much fox news.

There are bad apples in every basked, don't you agree?
EDIT: No one will blow him/herself up for nothing.
And when a nation shelters the "bad apples" what are we supposed to do? Turn the other cheek? Fuck that. You hit me, I hit you back hard enough to make sure you can't raise your hands again.

score :US 1, u iditos nothing

if u guys really hate what we are doing so much do something about it.

Oh I'd love to! The minute I see a nation decide to invade the US, guess who will be emigrating to that nation and joining the army? :D

Iran is a beacon of democracy? What have you been smoking? Do you remember what happened during their last election?
In the US? Yes I heard about the Florida debacle.

Rabbit, stfu, your just making yourself look stupid. I just looked outside and thought about the last few days..and I haven't seen one anti-Islam saying anywhere...crazy isn't it? And the day I stop being referred to as an "infidel" i'll consider their views as tolerable, but until then, light them up!

You watch too much fox news.
what is wrong with fox news its my favorite

Find one. Just one. I want a photo of it and a link to read about it. All I ask is one.
here (http://media.funny.co.uk/files/2709.jpg)

Find one. Just one. I want a photo of it and a link to read about it. All I ask is one.I'm here in Finland. How am I supposed to show you one? Unless there is a website like www.antiislamslogansthatcanbeshowntoeutrusca.com

There are those slogans, written by some stupid individuals.

And in USA, anti-islam slogans are written...
Very rarely, and not state sanctioned. In the US mulsims are treated remarkably well. When they come here they soon become among the most wealthy and well educated citizens.

The ayatollahs are trying to calm down the population. Bush calling them the axis of evil doesn't help. The government is calling for peace. The population is anti-US like any other country.
The ayatollahs are trying to calm down the kids screaming for democracy.

Oh... I can't WAIT until I run for president.... because then we'll see some MAJOR changes.

For one, the US is gonna pay .5 percent of the UN's budget, they've gotten 27% out of us FOR TOO LONG. Another thing, natural distaster in Europe? (finland in this example?) need some help? Sorry, we cant,. we're too stupid to send what is needed, remember?

And when you attack us, if ever, (doubt it) we won't put in a new leader, we'll put in a GOVERNOR. THat's right, you'll be the 50 something state of the US.

Rabbit, stfu, your just making yourself look stupid. I just looked outside and thought about the last few days..and I haven't seen one anti-Islam saying anywhere...crazy isn't it? And the day I stop being referred to as an "infidel" i'll consider their views as tolerable, but until then, light them up!I meant graffiti and such things. There are anti-islam slogans written in here too, like all over the world!

Find one. Just one. I want a photo of it and a link to read about it. All I ask is one.
Bad bet. Who's to say there isn't a spot of anti-islamic graffiti on some building somewhere. Still, I haven't seen any here in the USA.

Very rarely, and not state sanctioned. In the US mulsims are treated remarkably well. When they come here they soon become among the most wealthy and well educated citizens.I never said they were state sanctioned. Of course they aren't.

Oh... I can't WAIT until I run for president.... because then we'll see some MAJOR changes.

For one, the US is gonna pay .5 percent of the UN's budget, they've gotten 27% out of us FOR TOO LONG. Another thing, natural distaster in Europe? (finland in this example?) need some help? Sorry, we cant,. we're too stupid to send what is needed, remember?

And when you attack us, if ever, (doubt it) we won't put in a new leader, we'll put in a GOVERNOR. THat's right, you'll be the 50 something state of the US.
France should already be flying the stars and stripes

You watch too much fox news.
I don't watch any fox news. My news comes from NPR, BBC, NY times, and CNN.

The ayatollahs are trying to calm down the kids screaming for democracy.
You're dreaming. That's only the CIA which is calling for capitalism.
The kids are a few hundreds who have watched fox news a little too much.

You're dreaming. That's only the CIA which is calling for capitalism.
The kids are a few hundreds who have watched fox news a little too much.
again what is wrong with fox news?

In the US? Yes I heard about the Florida debacle.
How about the Mullahs in Iran making some of the most popular reformer candidates inelligible to run for office? I guess your whitewash of Iranian democracy missed a spot.

again what is wrong with fox news?
It's corporate bullshit.

what is wrong with fox news its my favorite

I guess we have the problem right there. You know, outside of your little tinpot dictatorship, that "News" Channel is pretty much recognized at what it is; the main propaganda machine of the administration.

Stop that talking about Fox News. I'm sure they aren't any better or worse than CNN or some other news.

How about the Mullahs in Iran making some of the most popular reformer candidates inelligible to run for office? I guess your whitewash of Iranian democracy missed a spot.
I think those kind of incidents happens in the US more.

I guess we have the problem right there. You know, outside of your little tinpot dictatorship, that "News" Channel is pretty much recognized at what it is; the main propaganda machine of the administration.
u say propaganda i say truth

France should already be flying the stars and stripes

What IS with the hatred of France. They disagreed with you. It's not a crime, and they were supported by a majority of their citizens.Oh my God, that sounds like democracy in action!

And if you hate them so much, how about starting a campaign to hand back the Statue of Liberty as you obviously don't need any French crap despoiling America's skylines!

I never said they were state sanctioned. Of course they aren't.
They are in Iran, and they're common. I haven't seen any anti-islam slogans on walls in the USA.

Stop that talking about Fox News. I'm sure they aren't any better or worse than CNN or some other news.
CNN is not the best example.

You're dreaming. That's only the CIA which is calling for capitalism.
The kids are a few hundreds who have watched fox news a little too much.
Now you're just trolling.

What IS with the hatred of France. They disagreed with you. It's not a crime, and they were supported by a majority of their citizens.Oh my God, that sounds like democracy in action!

And if you hate them so much, how about starting a campaign to hand back the Statue of Liberty as you obviously don't need any French crap despoiling America's skylines!
i should

I think those kind of incidents happens in the US more.
Bullshit. Anyone who can get enough signiatures on a petition is permitted to run for office in the USA.

My apologies rabbit, no anti-islam grafitti either, just a "Cowboy Up" and some random gang mark. Maybe its an anamoly or something your seeing.

They are in Iran, and they're common. I haven't seen any anti-islam slogans on walls in the USA.Anti US slogans can be found everywhere in the world. They are in Japan as well as in Angola.

Bullshit. Anyone who can get enough signiatures on a petition is permitted to run for office in the USA.
Provided they have enough funds and that they can prove to be born in the US. In other words provided they support capitalism.

My apologies rabbit, no anti-islam grafitti either, just a "Cowboy Up" and some random gang mark. Maybe its an anamoly or something your seeing.Just walk further from your back yard...

Now you're just trolling.
Show me your sources.

Anti US slogans can be found everywhere in the world. They are in Japan as well as in Angola.
How do you find the time to spraypaint walls in Japan, angola and still post here?

Anti US slogans can be found everywhere in the world. They are in Japan as well as in Angola.
But they aren't part of a government sponsored campaign to instill hatred of the US in Japan. They are in Iran.

Of course they have to prove they're United States citizens! Otherwise Osama's brother could walk in and run for President!

Provided they have enough funds and that they can prove to be born in the US. In other words provided they support capitalism.

Be fair. It's only the president and VP (I think) who have to have been born there. They just need to be citizens. With lovely corporate buying power of course.

But they aren't part of a government sponsored campaign to instill hatred of the US in Japan. They are in Iran.True. Can we stop this crap?

But they aren't part of a government sponsored campaign to instill hatred of the US in Japan. They are in Iran.
What they call the US the axis of evil or what?

Provided they have enough funds and that they can prove to be born in the US. In other words provided they support capitalism.
I agree that we need election reforms that would eliminate the need for fundraising in US elections, but anyone still can run. BTW only president needs to be born here.

In my profession, I have been all over the United States. Haven't seen any. Maybe you should open your eyes a little bit more?

Sorry if this has been pointed out in this particulatr thread already, but it will be Israel bombing the Iranian nuclear sites, not the US. Isreal has already purchased the necessary bunker busting weapons, they have the experience (Osirak), and have the motivation. The US has the weapons, but not a compeling motivation, especially in light of the Iraq fiasco.

Look for an Israeli attack in '06...

What they call the US the axis of evil or what?
Among other things. Axis of evil is one comment. Iran has anti-US museums for fuck's sake.

I agree that we need election reforms that would eliminate the need for fundraising in US elections, but anyone still can run. BTW only president needs to be born here.
and we are thinking about removing that stipulation

Among other things. Axis of evil is one comment. Iran has anti-US museums for fuck's sake.
The US is not anti-Iran at all.

Among other things. Axis of evil is one comment. Iran has anti-US museums for fuck's sake.Umm... No they do not. They hate Americans because they think AMerica hates muslims.

and we are thinking about removing that stipulation

I so look forward to President Arnie. I fear I may die laughing though!

The US is not anti-Iran at all.
If Iran got rid of their nuclear program we wouldn't give two shits about them.

If Iran got rid of their nuclear program we wouldn't give two shits about them.They hardly attack you! Why should they? Superpower against Small country.

It has happened once, when we attacked Russia during WWII, but we were only taking our lands back...

screw all u anti-american sob's

Umm... No they do not. They hate Americans because they think AMerica hates muslims.
Visit the former US embassy. It's been converted into an Anti-US museum. They have sculptures, paintings, etc. all with the theme "death to America".

Your talking again rabbit, the past doesn't matter right now, just digging your own rabbit hole.

Visit the former US embassy. It's been converted into an Anti-US museum. They have sculptures, paintings, etc. all with the theme "death to America".Then than is an exhibition, not a museum. :p

They hardly attack you! Why should they? Superpower against Small country.

It has happened once, when we attacked Russia during WWII, but we were only taking our lands back...
Their terrorist proxy armies have attacked us in the past.

screw all u anti-american sob's

For feck's sake. Disagreement with some aspects of American policy does not imply a hatred of America. Life is shades of grey and virtually never black and white.

Your talking again rabbit, the past doesn't matter right now, just digging your own rabbit hole.If you haven't got anything smarter to say, please be quiet (or at least try) please?

And the words that flow from yours hold any water? You make assumptions, yet you don't live in the United States. Your viewpoints bounce all over the place and you cannot even hold yourself in a petty arguement. Give some evidence, then you may succeed.

And the words that flow from yours hold any water? You make assumptions, yet you don't live in the United States. Your viewpoints bounce all over the place and you cannot even hold yourself in a petty arguement. Give some evidence, then you may succeed.Yes, I don't live in USA. Don't you think it is good to hear an opinion from a foreigner? You haven't said anything here, if insulting me doesn't count.

BY THE WAY
There is thread about this thread in the moderation section. WE should calm down and behave nicely...

EDIT: I'll go now. Believe in what you want.

BY THE WAY
There is thread about this thread in the moderation section. WE should calm down and behave nicely...
Well I hope they're saying nice things about us.

Your point on anti-islam grafitti, haven't seen it. When you understand what its like having a group of people wanting you, your family, your neighbors, your community and your town slaughtered in the name of Jihad, then you can argue the point. I'll leave it at that.

Oh I'd love to! The minute I see a nation decide to invade the US, guess who will be emigrating to that nation and joining the army? :D
KEWL! I'll meet you in "no-man's-land" and teach you alllll about combat! :D

Well I hope they're saying nice things about us.
I did.

Unfortunately during WW II we did not have precision weapons and the colateral damage was a lot worse then than it is now. We needed to destroy their war making capability (factories) which are legitimate targets in any war. Unfortunately a lot of Japans production of war supplies was made in "cottage industrues." "Paper houses" didn't help the situation either.


Of course that is why we Fire Bombed Tokyo in retalliation for Pearl Harbor. THey attacked a military base and a military base only. We torched civilian neihborhoods.

Or how about Dresden in Germany? We leveled the city that was known throughout Europe for its culture. There was no war making industry there and we already had troops inside Germany. It was pointless except as punishment to the people.

We publically say we avoid civilian deaths but privately we change the name to collateral damage to make it sound better and bomb away on schedule.

EVERY COUNTRY EMBRACES NATIONALISM TO MAKE THE OTHER GUYS SOUND BAD AND MAKE THEMSELVES INTO SAINTS!!!

Of course that is why we Fire Bombed Tokyo in retalliation for Pearl Harbor. THey attacked a military base and a military base only. We torched civilian neihborhoods.

Or how about Dresden in Germany? We leveled the city that was known throughout Europe for its culture. There was no war making industry there and we already had troops inside Germany. It was pointless except as punishment to the people.

We publically say we avoid civilian deaths but privately we change the name to collateral damage to make it sound better and bomb away on schedule.

EVERY COUNTRY EMBRACES NATIONALISM TO MAKE THE OTHER GUYS SOUND BAD AND MAKE THEMSELVES INTO SAINTS!!!
It must be very sad to have become so cynical at such an early age. :(

Granted, bush is an idiot who shouldn't be in charge of wiping his own ass, much less running a country (my opinion only) but even he's not stupid enough to use nuclear weapons without a damn good reason. If he was Afghanistan would be a smoking pile of radioactive rubble by now.

you might be interested to know how much intelligence Bush has according to the average person in Europe. certainly not enough to suppress unleashing enough firepower to destroy the world at LEAST 7 times over....

(yes, America still has that many nukes, if not all are ready to launch)

you might be interested to know how much intelligence Bush has according to the average person in Europe. certainly not enough to suppress unleashing enough firepower to destroy the world at LEAST 7 times over....

(yes, America still has that many nukes, if not all are ready to launch)
Yet we didn't use them after 9/11. I think that shows we can be trusted, even when our leader is a little simple.

Oh... I can't WAIT until I run for president.... because then we'll see some MAJOR changes.

For one, the US is gonna pay .5 percent of the UN's budget, they've gotten 27% out of us FOR TOO LONG. Another thing, natural distaster in Europe? (finland in this example?) need some help? Sorry, we cant,. we're too stupid to send what is needed, remember?

And when you attack us, if ever, (doubt it) we won't put in a new leader, we'll put in a GOVERNOR. THat's right, you'll be the 50 something state of the US.

Actually the US hasn't paid its UN dues for at least the better part of a decade.

And all that disaster releif we promise? Less than 25% of it ever shows up. Once the media attention is elswhere, so is our help.

And expanding the US through takeover? Isn't that why we fought the Soviets comrade? To free Eastern Europe from being a soviet state?

I hope they will attack Iran and Syria this year.

I know this post was way back in this thread but i felt i had to comment:

"We're responsible enough to have one. Nations like Iran aren't. "

Honestly, im sure the people in Iran are saying the same thing, except referencing the US and other countries as not responsible enough. Whos to decide whos responsible enough to have nukes? You're basically saying "I'm deciding that I'm responsible enough to have nukes". How does that make sense? Also, the fact that the US is the only country that has *ever* used nukes on another country makes me question if the only country who has ever proven itself capable of using them is the one responsible enough to not do so. Just a thought.

I know this post was way back in this thread but i felt i had to comment:

"We're responsible enough to have one. Nations like Iran aren't. "

Honestly, im sure the people in Iran are saying the same thing, except referencing the US and other countries as not responsible enough. Whos to decide whos responsible enough to have nukes? You're basically saying "I'm deciding that I'm responsible enough to have nukes". How does that make sense? Also, the fact that the US is the only country that has *ever* used nukes on another country makes me question if the only country who has ever proven itself capable of using them is the one responsible enough to not do so. Just a thought.
We decide. The USA. Because we have the power to decide. In the end it comes down to that, and other nations should be thankfull. If someone wasn't ready to use force to deter nuclear proliferation, then the world would always be on the brink of nuclear war or worse.

who needs anti islamic slogans when you have hate crimes, these are hate crimes in both USA and canada against islamic groups, and if you ask me arson is worse than slogans.

Also it wasnt only USA and Uk that invaded normandy canada was also there and took one of the (5 beaches i belive) and also were responsible for large expansion's of alied land.

1994: An arsonist started a fire that burned to the ground a nearly completed mosque in Yuba City. CA.

1995: The Islamic center in Springfield IL was destroyed by arson.

1995-SEP-17: Vandals painted obscenities and graffiti on the windows, walls and trees of the Islamic Center of Passaic County, in Patterson, NJ. Flammable liquid was found on the floor of an outbuilding; this might have been an attempted arson.

1995-SEP: Vandals attacked the mosque at Clarkston, GA by breaking windows, damaging lights, discharging fire extinguishers, and burning satanic symbols (inverted pentagrams) into the carpet.

1995-OCT-21:The Islamic Center and Masjid of Greenville, SC, was destroyed in an arson attack. A suspect was later charged.

1995-OCT-21: Vandals painted an obscene message on the wall of the Flint Islamic Center/Genesee Academy in Flint, MI.

1996-MAR-19: Employees of a radio station in Denver, CO entered the local mosque after morning prayers. They allegedly played the national anthem on a trumpet, harassed the worshipers, and broadcast the incident live on radio. An agreement was later concluded between the local Muslim community and the radio station. It included a public apology by the station, sensitivity training for station employees and PSAs that offered a positive image of Islam.

1998-JAN-28: A 23 year old man was arrested for allegedly smashing a concrete block through the glass front door of the mosque in Fort Collins, CO.

1998-JAN-29: Vandals scattered metal spikes in the parking lot of the Flint Islamic Center in Flint, MI. A number of cars had flat tires.

1998-FEB-22: A vandal threw a beer bottle through the second floor window of the mosque in Bloomingdale, IN.

1998-MAR-8: Someone torched three school busses owned by the local Islamic school in Ottawa, ON Canada.

1999-MAY: A man was arrested after fleeing in his car from the area of a mosque in Denver CO. Loaded weapons, machetes, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and bomb making materials were found in his car. Jack Merylin Modig was later arrested. He allegedly said "I am an enemy against the Islamic nation [sic] and I was going to take care of business."

1999-JUN-23: CFRB, a Toronto, ON Canada radio station broadcasted a live call-in program. The initial topic dealt with a Greek Orthodox priest who refused admittence of a seeing-eye dog into his church. A caller criticized religious extremism. He said "Nero burned the wrong people - he should have burned the Muslims." The announcer tried to change to another topic. The operations manager of CFRB later apologized. They have since drawn up new guidelines for operations during call-in shows.

1999-MAR-5: A mosque was seriously damaged by an arsonist in Minneapolis, MN

1999: Three youths were charged with vandalism of a Villa Park IL mosque, near Chicago. They allegedly threw several large chunks of concrete and a glass milk bottle through four windows of the Islamic Foundation.

2000-JUN-20: A gunman seriously injured a worshiper at an Islamic Center in Memphis, TN. The door to the mosque was damaged by a shotgun blast.

2000-NOV: A suspicious fire gutted the lobby of a mosque in Surrey, British Columbia, and severely damaged the rest of the building. There were no injuries reported. Witnesses reported seeing a van speeding away from the mosque just before an explosion was heard.

2001-JAN: Vandals targeted the Islamic Center of Southern California.

2001-FEB *: Vandals attacked a mosque in Winnipeg, MB, Canada. They smeared animal feces, eggs and white paint on the front of the building. Garbage was strewn around.

2001-MAR-16: Several youths, one with a baseball bat, allegedly attacked two Muslims who were standing outside of their mosque in Sparks NV. One Muslim had his arm broken. The other was more seriously injured and was in critical condition in hospital after undergoing three operations. A member of a nearby church ran to help stop the attack.

*Date is approximate.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_hate.htm

I see your point. what's worse?

who needs anti islamic slogans when you have hate crimes, these are hate crimes in both USA and canada against islamic groups, and if you ask me arson is worse than slogans.

Also it wasnt only USA and Uk that invaded normandy canada was also there and took one of the (5 beaches i belive) and also were responsible for large expansion's of alied land.

1994: An arsonist started a fire that burned to the ground a nearly completed mosque in Yuba City. CA.

1995: The Islamic center in Springfield IL was destroyed by arson.

1995-SEP-17: Vandals painted obscenities and graffiti on the windows, walls and trees of the Islamic Center of Passaic County, in Patterson, NJ. Flammable liquid was found on the floor of an outbuilding; this might have been an attempted arson.

1995-SEP: Vandals attacked the mosque at Clarkston, GA by breaking windows, damaging lights, discharging fire extinguishers, and burning satanic symbols (inverted pentagrams) into the carpet.

1995-OCT-21:The Islamic Center and Masjid of Greenville, SC, was destroyed in an arson attack. A suspect was later charged.

1995-OCT-21: Vandals painted an obscene message on the wall of the Flint Islamic Center/Genesee Academy in Flint, MI.

1996-MAR-19: Employees of a radio station in Denver, CO entered the local mosque after morning prayers. They allegedly played the national anthem on a trumpet, harassed the worshipers, and broadcast the incident live on radio. An agreement was later concluded between the local Muslim community and the radio station. It included a public apology by the station, sensitivity training for station employees and PSAs that offered a positive image of Islam.

1998-JAN-28: A 23 year old man was arrested for allegedly smashing a concrete block through the glass front door of the mosque in Fort Collins, CO.

1998-JAN-29: Vandals scattered metal spikes in the parking lot of the Flint Islamic Center in Flint, MI. A number of cars had flat tires.

1998-FEB-22: A vandal threw a beer bottle through the second floor window of the mosque in Bloomingdale, IN.

1998-MAR-8: Someone torched three school busses owned by the local Islamic school in Ottawa, ON Canada.

1999-MAY: A man was arrested after fleeing in his car from the area of a mosque in Denver CO. Loaded weapons, machetes, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and bomb making materials were found in his car. Jack Merylin Modig was later arrested. He allegedly said "I am an enemy against the Islamic nation [sic] and I was going to take care of business."

1999-JUN-23: CFRB, a Toronto, ON Canada radio station broadcasted a live call-in program. The initial topic dealt with a Greek Orthodox priest who refused admittence of a seeing-eye dog into his church. A caller criticized religious extremism. He said "Nero burned the wrong people - he should have burned the Muslims." The announcer tried to change to another topic. The operations manager of CFRB later apologized. They have since drawn up new guidelines for operations during call-in shows.

1999-MAR-5: A mosque was seriously damaged by an arsonist in Minneapolis, MN

1999: Three youths were charged with vandalism of a Villa Park IL mosque, near Chicago. They allegedly threw several large chunks of concrete and a glass milk bottle through four windows of the Islamic Foundation.

2000-JUN-20: A gunman seriously injured a worshiper at an Islamic Center in Memphis, TN. The door to the mosque was damaged by a shotgun blast.

2000-NOV: A suspicious fire gutted the lobby of a mosque in Surrey, British Columbia, and severely damaged the rest of the building. There were no injuries reported. Witnesses reported seeing a van speeding away from the mosque just before an explosion was heard.

2001-JAN: Vandals targeted the Islamic Center of Southern California.

2001-FEB *: Vandals attacked a mosque in Winnipeg, MB, Canada. They smeared animal feces, eggs and white paint on the front of the building. Garbage was strewn around.

2001-MAR-16: Several youths, one with a baseball bat, allegedly attacked two Muslims who were standing outside of their mosque in Sparks NV. One Muslim had his arm broken. The other was more seriously injured and was in critical condition in hospital after undergoing three operations. A member of a nearby church ran to help stop the attack.

*Date is approximate.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_hate.htm
That breaks down to less than three hate crimes vs. muslims / year. I'd say we're doing pretty well on the religious tolerance front. There's always going to be some hatred. It can't all be stopped, but less than 3/year is a pretty good record.

We decide. The USA. Because we have the power to decide. In the end it comes down to that, and other nations should be thankfull. If someone wasn't ready to use force to deter nuclear proliferation, then the world would always be on the brink of nuclear war or worse.
Yes yes. We owe you. You saved France. Saddam had WMD's. And the US is the most admired and beloved nation ever. Everyone loves Americans and wants to be one. Etc.... Now invade Iran and Syria already.

u say propaganda i say truth

YES! You're right and I'm wrong! There, the argument's won! Gosh, it's so easy to win arguments these days, isn't it?

>_<

How many people were killed in those "hate crimes". Is the number anywhere near the amount of people killed in the 9/11 attacks? You cannot compare apples to apples in that sense, doesn't work.

Yes yes. We owe you. You saved France. Saddam had WMD's. And the US is the most admired and beloved nation ever. Everyone loves Americans and wants to be one. Etc.... Now invade Iran and Syria already.
I never made the claim that you owe us for WWII, nor did I ever say that the war in Iraq was justified. I am saying that someone needs to use force when necessary to stop nuclear proliferation. The stakes are too high, and many western nations have lost the stomach for war, so the USA and other nations that still remember some things are worth fighting for must step in.

Bullshit. Anyone who can get enough signiatures on a petition is permitted to run for office in the USA.

Of course even if they get to run, and get the funds, and happen to be born here, they can't get the media to cover their campaigns seriously and aren't allowed into the debates.

As always, he who gets to frame the argument always wins.

For instance, Look at abortion. There is the side that is PRO-choice. So is the other side ANTI-choice? No they are PRO-life. SO does that mean they other side is ANTI-life? no they are PRO........

Everybody wants to be on the positive side. The CORRECT side. When are you morons ever going to understand that we all have different points of view and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

You want PROOF violence doesn't work? If I think you are an asshole and you punch me. What do I think now? Now I think you are an immature asshole who can't handle reality. So you shoot and kill me. Then my family comes and shoots you. Then your family....

Is this any different when it is done by a whole country instead of a family of individuals?

It must be very sad to have become so cynical at such an early age. :(

How is it cynical to look at the truth?

There are two types of cynics. One is the George Castanza cynic where he believes in Murphy's Law so much he alrteady ASSUMES everything sucks. I assume that is what you were talking about.

There is also the classic Greek cynics that are the foundation of western philosophical thought. They questioned things, taking nothing for granted.

I merely look at the world through unclouded eyes, seeing the good and the bad for what it is. I then ask questions aloud about WHY does it have to be this way. WHO says? Bush? Cheney? Osama Bin Laden? Halliburton? WHO?

Maybe if everyone wasn't so damn sure of themselves. Conservatives and Liberals alike, we could get an honest discussion about what kind of world we WANT, not what kind of world we have to fight.

How many people were killed in those "hate crimes". Is the number anywhere near the amount of people killed in the 9/11 attacks? You cannot compare apples to apples in that sense, doesn't work.

The only reason people payed close attention to 9/11 was because A) it happened on U.S soil and B) a bunch of Americans were killed, probably most of them were rich white buisness people. We hear about people getting killed every single day but we don't seem to care. The reason behind it is that we can't identify with 100,000 black africans killed in a civil war because we are to busy. Why can't the two be compared in this instance. They both involve dead people don't they? or are you only focusing on the fact that they were American and therefore somehow better?

I never made the claim that you owe us for WWII, nor did I ever say that the war in Iraq was justified. I am saying that someone needs to use force when necessary to stop nuclear proliferation. The stakes are too high, and many western nations have lost the stomach for war, so the USA and other nations that still remember some things are worth fighting for must step in.

That's what I think the United States needs a good old fashioned surrender. Perhaps if they were utterly defeated in a war and had everything taken away from them. Thousands and thousands of there soldiers dead with massive civilian casualties. Perhaps then they would loose their insatiable stomach for war. Europe has seemed to have figured this out because they've dealt with those things. Perhaps it's time that the U.S did the same.

You've probably heard the story, denied by the bush administration, that the US has been watching Iran's nuclear and missile sites in preparation for attacking them. Do you think an attack vs. Iran is really comming?

Im cold too buddy. I live in Philly, you in NJ, were neighbors, in the same fucking cold climate. Fortunately I got a New North Face Jacket, so at least my body was warm. :D

Im cold too buddy. I live in Philly, you in NJ, were neighbors, in the same fucking cold climate. Fortunately I got a New North Face Jacket, so at least my body was warm. :D

You think your cold! I live in Toronto Canada it's -33C here right now! And yes a jacket is strongly suggested for the winter. I agree.

screw all u anti-american sob's


I don't hate America.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" -Thomas Jefferson

I merely feel like fighting for what I think the idea of America is.
And aligning our foreign policy and military intervention with the needs of our fat corporations isn't one of them.

profit at the expense of people is not a true american principle

Unless a person is bordering on retarded, they wouldn't attack Iran now. However I do see it as a possibility soon. Here's why it can't be done and it's one simple reason: International Support.

With the US in Iraq and Afghanistan already, they'll be spread too thin if they attack Iran as well without help. Other UN nations like France, Germany, and Russia are needed as well as Britain and Australia. This is where there is a problem.

It may be that Iran will not cooperate with the UN and they will become a threat. I believe President Bush and the UN have to negotiate to try and stop the threat but if it's not possible an attack may be needed for safety. I would hope that in that case if the UN has done all it can with no results that France still doesn't refuse to join a coalition.

I see Iran as a potential future threat within the next few years as well as Syria (Axis of World War III), but to fight an Axis you need allies. I don't think we had enough allies in Iraq but I think the cause was neccesary for safety. I don't question the US ability to get allies, I question the other countries who wouldn't add their support.

In regards to the U.S possibly invading Iran I think it's a strong possibility but not likely any time soon. George W. Bush is to wraped up with Afganistan and Iraq to take on Iran at the present time. I don't think he has enough home support to do something as radical as that but who knows we've seen him to crazy things before he might have a trick up his sleeve. Perhaps if another "Terrorist attack" occured then that might become a reality.

Im cold too buddy. I live in Philly, you in NJ, were neighbors, in the same fucking cold climate. Fortunately I got a New North Face Jacket, so at least my body was warm. :D
We really are neighbors. I work in Cinnaminson, right accross the river. BTW, Pats or Genos?

We decide. The USA. Because we have the power to decide. In the end it comes down to that, and other nations should be thankfull. If someone wasn't ready to use force to deter nuclear proliferation, then the world would always be on the brink of nuclear war or worse.

AHHH, so when we keep Pakistan as an ally even though their nuclear scientist was the one who SOLD nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea, Libya, ??, ??, etc. We haven't even been allowed to question him to find out who he sold to!!

Yeah, we are REAL dedicated to non-proliferation. THat is why Bush has pulled out of more arms control treaties than any other president in history. As well, our dedication to spreading Democracy? Pakistan is run by a military coup, aka. a dictator.

AHHH, so when we keep Pakistan as an ally even though their nuclear scientist was the one who SOLD nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea, Libya, ??, ??, etc. We haven't even been allowed to question him to find out who he sold to!!

Yeah, we are REAL dedicated to non-proliferation. THat is why Bush has pulled out of more arms control treaties than any other president in history. As well, our dedication to spreading Democracy? Pakistan is run by a military coup, aka. a dictator.

Exactly! must I remind you all as well that Saddam Hussein was installed by the United States after the former leader was overthrown...By the U.S we don't seem to learn that to often now do we. And on nuclear proliferation the U.S has over 3000 warheads on active 24 hour standby. That doesn't sound very friendly now does it? The U.S has fostered dictatorships all over the world because plainly those damn democracies were always so hard to control.

AHHH, so when we keep Pakistan as an ally even though their nuclear scientist was the one who SOLD nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea, Libya, ??, ??, etc. We haven't even been allowed to question him to find out who he sold to!!

Yeah, we are REAL dedicated to non-proliferation. THat is why Bush has pulled out of more arms control treaties than any other president in history. As well, our dedication to spreading Democracy? Pakistan is run by a military coup, aka. a dictator.
We should have taken action against them when they were still developing nuclear weapons. The price for our inaction is the potential for a regional nuclear war between India and Pakistan and the selling of Pakistani nuclear technology. This is another reason we should be more aggressive in stopping undeveloped countries from aquiring nuclear weapons, not less aggressive.

We should have taken action against them when they were still developing nuclear weapons. The price for our inaction is the potential for a regional nuclear war between India and Pakistan and the selling of Pakistani nuclear technology. This is another reason we should be more aggressive in stopping undeveloped countries from aquiring nuclear weapons, not less aggressive.

Not that I think nuclear weapons are a good thing that should be used by countries but what gives the United States some devine right to determine who should and who shouldn't have these weapons. Does being underdeveloped make them more dangerous?

Not that I think nuclear weapons are a good thing that should be used by countries but what gives the United States some devine right to determine who should and who shouldn't have these weapons. Does being underdeveloped make them more dangerous?
The US has the power and usually the will to deal with the issue. Also yes, being undeveloped makes them more dangerous. The leadership of undeveloped countries isn't always in control of the military (look at the countless military coups in third world nations). Plus they are more likely to sell the technology for hard currency.

The US has the power and usually the will to deal with the issue. Also yes, being undeveloped makes them more dangerous. The leadership of undeveloped countries isn't always in control of the military (look at the countless military coups in third world nations). Plus they are more likely to sell the technology for hard currency.


Oooh, I want to play this game. It's called "How many military coups have been funded by the United States?"

I will create a list if you want, but more interesting to note is how little the American people know about this. Especially, the kids just getting out of school.

So, by since we are a government of the people, by the people, and we don't know what are military is doing. Can we REALLY be said to be in control?
US corporations make mad money off of war. We sell weapons to both sides if we can. "Kill all you want, we'll breed more!"

The US has the power and usually the will to deal with the issue. Also yes, being undeveloped makes them more dangerous. The leadership of undeveloped countries isn't always in control of the military (look at the countless military coups in third world nations). Plus they are more likely to sell the technology for hard currency.

Well if the U.S has the power instead of letting these third world countries get so poor and "uncontrolable" why don't they actually try to help them instead of supressing the civil populations and selling military hardware to these corrupt governments. Doesn't that make the U.S less credible as a power if they install and deal with these corrupt governments? The U.S sells all sorts of weapons for hard currency that's how your economy works. If no one would buy your weapons then what would be the point? May I direct you to the Iran-Iraq war where the U.S openly sold weapons to Iraq ans supported there side. They then turned around and sold weapons to Iran. Doesn't that seem like they are making a profit off war for profit.

Now I realise that your point is about nuclear tecknology but isn't there speculation that they already do that? They have nuclear weapons based in Turkey who doesn't seem to be very democratic when you take a closer look.

Your other point is that if a country is underdeveloped it makes them more dangerous. Perhaps but The United States is one of the most developed and powerfull in the world yet they still "lower" themselves to the level of these underdeveloped countries because it's profitable. The U.S invades, interfeers politically, assasinates, suppreses oponents, promotes civil wars and wars by selling weapons to both sides etc. Doesn't that seem like the sorts of things that these so called underdeveloped countries should be doing? Doesn't it seem a little weird that the United States is so adamently "promoting democracy" when all they do is talk the talk and never walk the walk. Think about it.

Oooh, I want to play this game. It's called "How many military coups have been funded by the United States?"

I will create a list if you want, but more interesting to note is how little the American people know about this. Especially, the kids just getting out of school.

So, by since we are a government of the people, by the people, and we don't know what are military is doing. Can we REALLY be said to be in control?
US corporations make mad money off of war. We sell weapons to both sides if we can. "Kill all you want, we'll breed more!"

I vey much agree. The point remains that the U.S has been involved and will continue to be involved in other countries affairs as long as it remains profitable. The crazy thing is, most American don't even know about it. Oh sure they know about Vietnam, Korea, maybe even Guatamala. But most people don't know or worse yet don't care. The truth is, the government and other branches of the CIA have been keeping a lot from the American people which they deserve to know. Especially from a legaly elected government, that would only be fair.

Oooh, I want to play this game. It's called "How many military coups have been funded by the United States?"

I will create a list if you want, but more interesting to note is how little the American people know about this. Especially, the kids just getting out of school.

So, by since we are a government of the people, by the people, and we don't know what are military is doing. Can we REALLY be said to be in control?
US corporations make mad money off of war. We sell weapons to both sides if we can. "Kill all you want, we'll breed more!"
Yeah, I know we've been responsible for some military coups. But not nearly all of them.

Well if the U.S has the power instead of letting these third world countries get so poor and "uncontrolable" why don't they actually try to help them instead of supressing the civil populations and selling military hardware to these corrupt governments. Doesn't that make the U.S less credible as a power if they install and deal with these corrupt governments? The U.S sells all sorts of weapons for hard currency that's how your economy works. If no one would buy your weapons then what would be the point? May I direct you to the Iran-Iraq war where the U.S openly sold weapons to Iraq ans supported there side. They then turned around and sold weapons to Iran. Doesn't that seem like they are making a profit off war for profit.

Now I realise that your point is about nuclear tecknology but isn't there speculation that they already do that? They have nuclear weapons based in Turkey who doesn't seem to be very democratic when you take a closer look.

Your other point is that if a country is underdeveloped it makes them more dangerous. Perhaps but The United States is one of the most developed and powerfull in the world yet they still "lower" themselves to the level of these underdeveloped countries because it's profitable. The U.S invades, interfeers politically, assasinates, suppreses oponents, promotes civil wars and wars by selling weapons to both sides etc. Doesn't that seem like the sorts of things that these so called underdeveloped countries should be doing? Doesn't it seem a little weird that the United States is so adamently "promoting democracy" when all they do is talk the talk and never walk the walk. Think about it.
We sell weapons, but so do many other countries. The EU sells fighters, bombers, rifles, tanks, etc. That's normal. We don't sell nuclear weapons.

Turkey may not be totally democratic, but it's stable.

Yes, we have screwed up on numerous occasions. I never said our hands were spotless.

Yeah, I know we've been responsible for some military coups. But not nearly all of them.

So doesn't that undcut our credibility just a bit?

How would you react if your Dad told you not to drink or smoke, or else, all while at the same time he was a two pack a day drunk?

Ok, I'm going to ask everyone to calm down and stop hurling insults/childish remarks. Discuss the topic; don't attack posters.

So doesn't that undcut our credibility just a bit?

How would you react if your Dad told you not to drink or smoke, or else, all while at the same time he was a two pack a day drunk?
I think we should clean up our act and start acting like an honest cop. I also dont' think we should stop being a cop.

Come on. Invade them already. Theres nothing else worth watching on right now.

You've probably heard the story, denied by the bush administration, that the US has been watching Iran's nuclear and missile sites in preparation for attacking them. Do you think an attack vs. Iran is really comming?

As much as I'd love to see Bush step into another hot steaming pile of dung, there is no way he will attack Iran. Bush knows that invading Iran, or getting embroiled in any kind of conflict in that country will break the U.S. military, cause widespread public unrest and lack of support at home, and plunge the already weak dollar into a depression it may never recover from.

Bush and friends tried out their little PNAC experiment with Iraq, and found to their great dismay that it is not so easy to ply your megalomaniac trade against the headstrong forces of the world. Bush will be lucky if he can pull out of Iraq anytime soon without the spectre of Vietnam becoming more and more of a reality as time goes on.

I don't think much of Bush's 98 I.Q. point intelligence, but I do think that he has enough common sense to know when enough is enough. I doubt he will use anything more than tough talk and asinine bravado against Iran.

As much as I'd love to see Bush step into another hot steaming pile of dung, there is no way he will attack Iran. Bush knows that invading Iran, or getting embroiled in any kind of conflict in that country will break the U.S. military, cause widespread public unrest and lack of support at home, and plunge the already weak dollar into a depression it may never recover from.

Bush and friends tried out their little PNAC experiment with Iraq, and found to their great dismay that it is not so easy to ply your megalomaniac trade against the headstrong forces of the world. Bush will be lucky if he can pull out of Iraq anytime soon without the spectre of Vietnam becoming more and more of a reality as time goes on.

I don't think much of Bush's 98 I.Q. point intelligence, but I do think that he has enough common sense to know when enough is enough. I doubt he will use anything more than tough talk and asinine bravado against Iran.
What if he just drops a few bombs?

Suicide bombers kill themselves because they have nothing to live for. Most of them have had their families killed by war and anyone and everyone they ever cared about are most likely missing or dead.

yeah.... :rolleyes:

What if he just drops a few bombs?

You can argue that Iran supports terrorists who attack America, while they can claim innocence themselves. I think we should make a distinction between Iran's beef with Israel and what is between the US and Iran, but that matters little.

However, if we bomb Iran directly, what if Iran decides to respond directly?
Maybe the only reason they want a nuclear bomb is so they can also join the club of countries that anyone would be stupid to attack. They know that if they can show that they have one that the US will definitely reconsider invading. Look at the difference between what happened to Iraq vs. what has happened to North Korea. All of the countries that have U.N. veto power have nukes...coincidence? Seems like the only way to be taken seriously in a world run by hawks is to have as big a dick, or better yet, a bigger dick than everyone else. Can we all agree that nukes represent the most viagra that a country can consume?

Well, what if we bomb, and in retaliation for our attack they nuke a U.S. city?
Of course then our retribution would be swift and massive. Iran is mostly desert now, but I am sure the U.S. military can ensure that it stays that way for a few thousand years more. Is the risk worth it? What if the whole thing broke down into another World War?

You can argue that Iran supports terrorists who attack America, while they can claim innocence themselves. I think we should make a distinction between Iran's beef with Israel and what is between the US and Iran, but that matters little.

However, if we bomb Iran directly, what if Iran decides to respond directly?
Maybe the only reason they want a nuclear bomb is so they can also join the club of countries that anyone would be stupid to attack. They know that if they can show that they have one that the US will definitely reconsider invading. Look at the difference between what happened to Iraq vs. what has happened to North Korea. All of the countries that have U.N. veto power have nukes...coincidence? Seems like the only way to be taken seriously in a world run by hawks is to have as big a dick, or better yet, a bigger dick than everyone else. Can we all agree that nukes represent the most viagra that a country can consume?
Then we make an example of them by reducing their nation to radioactive glass.
Well, what if we bomb, and in retaliation for our attack they nuke a U.S. city?
Of course then our retribution would be swift and massive. Iran is mostly desert now, but I am sure the U.S. military can ensure that it stays that way for a few thousand years more. Is the risk worth it? What if the whole thing broke down into another World War?Then we make an example of them by reducing their nation to radioactive glass. World war? What superpower would fight on their behalf?

it wouldn't be a point of fighting on their behalf. Just as the U.S. has interests in other small countries for resources, so do other powerful nations. With china's growing demand for oil, how do they respond with the U.S. taking over all the oil rich countries? Then the world would be beholden to the US, without a say in how we do things. That ironically is the same set up the colonies had with England. We had no say in how things were done yet we had to do what they said. What was the American response?

Reading these threads is a full time job

Reading these threads is a full time job

No shit! :D

if the us bombs iran i hope they will wait 5 or 6 years till i join the air force so i can bomb them :mp5:

Not that I think nuclear weapons are a good thing that should be used by countries but what gives the United States some devine right to determine who should and who shouldn't have these weapons. Does being underdeveloped make them more dangerous?
YES

Come on. Invade them already. Theres nothing else worth watching on right now.

Yes, that CNN guy who said after the tsunami that this would really help CNN's ratings (he said it on the air) is probably itching to get this story rolling.

Heck, the US should invade one country after another, and do it in different ways (nukes in one instance for great special effects shots). That way, the news networks make a killing.

Oooh! Do you suppose that ALL politicians secretly hold stock in Viacom and other news networks, so that when the US kicks some country's ass, they all get rich?

Spookier than Halliburton, I'll say...

I think bombing Iran will not occure

1 - President bush favorite issue with Iran is not military action

2 - Invading Iran is not possible : Iran is harder to invade than Irak
The Us have not enough power to invade Iran and stay in Irak in the same time because invasion of Iran will use more mens than irak, do you really think the US will send another mens ? They are enough casualties in Irak and american people will not support a long time invasion of iran, casualties will be really hard. Just think what it would happen if Iranian's resistance is harder than expected, they surely have possibility to invade Irak and to kill Gi's there. With problems of bombing in Irak, Iran army coming in irak and possibility for iranian regime to give weapons to irakians shia muslims population the situation will be really hazardous for american army.

3 - Iran is not like Irak, not only desert but also forest zone think about guerilla and remember vietnam !!!!

4 - Politically it will be a disaster for america. Even the brits will not go for this option, so america will be more and more lonely. It's time for diplomatia said C. Rice, G W Bush add that he must take better the allied opinion including european country like Germany and France.

5 - Attacking Iran will be definatly show america hostile to muslim world.

6 - Iran have possibility to respond by strong measure. It would include some terrorism support in Israel (Hezbollah) and in US. The nuisance power of Iran is incedibly higher than irakian's one. Irakian's have nothing to do with 9/11, have no mass destruction weapon. 9/11 was act of Al Quaida who is only a ridiculous small group of extremist. If iran is attacked they will respond by force and could organize very strong measure, even worse than 9/11, don't forget than 9/11 was ridiculously simple to do. Iranian have ever seen what they are able to do, think about bombing in Lebanon against American and French !!! You should also consider the horrible bombing and killing than Iranian done in France in 80's.

7- Iranian have a strong community in the whole occidental world. Possibly some are potential nuisance for us (American and European). Most of people of Iran are very good citizen in US and Europe. How to see "bad" and "good".

8 - Iranian have taking lesson of Israelian and own raid against irakian nuclear installation and have hidden and buried their own installation including under mosquee.

9 - Iranian youngness is upset with their own dirigeant but attacking iran will pushed them to taking arms against the invader.

10 - Iran have aircraft to defend themselves, and even worse they have lot of ground - sky missile like soviet SA-7. Air bombing will not so easy.

11 - Iran should respond to the attack by the rockets they have, they could blast israelian cities including by mass destruction weapon. Not nuclear it seems but what about chimical ??

What we can say is that Iran is a real problem and there will be done something against them.

Including all what I say, the more reasonable option is of course no invasion neiter bombing. Governement said that they have agents in Iran. A strong community of Iranian live in california and have fled from iran. So the best option is for instance, I think for the US to make internal action in Iran. I'm not thinking about some destruction, il will appeal iranian reaction by terrorist attack either in Israel than in US and no security could prevent this danger. I'm thinking about help for millions of young Iranian willing changes in their country. It will be easier to help a "coup d'etat" attempt.

- 1 - Millions of youngs want changes, young iranian are able to fight against the mollah's regime.

- 2 - Moderate political forces exists in Iran including president's party. Why they could make changes before, because they couldn't with the "revolution keepers" the local religious authorities who are really powerful and have control of part of army and law. The moderate should be really happy if iran will be rid of the extremist religious authorities.

3 - Iranian diaspora in US and Europe will be surely a support for such option and could constitute a really clever elite for the country if rid of the extremist treligious authorities.

4 - Some Iranian are officialy muslim but in secret they still are Zoroastre in private hidden of power's eyes. They certainly could support a counter-revolution throwing the extremist muslim authorities out.

5 - Iranian women hardly support the religious restriction in their daily lives. It would certainly another support for such kind of action.

Do you think an attack vs. Iran is really comming?
Insha'allah