NationStates Jolt Archive

Remember last week, when Indonesia declared that U.S. soldiers had to be out of Indonesia by a certain date? After all, we are "Great Satan", even when we are helping them.

Well, after meeting with U.S. officials, Indonesia has announced that there will be no set date for U.S. troops to be out, only that Indonesia would try to take over relief effots by the end of March.

This U-Turn was supposedly caused by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz reminding the Indonesians that if they ever want the arm sales ban to be lifted off their country, they'd better cooperate.

I thought Muslim countries hated the U.S. and didn't ever want to do buisness with us? I bet those same countries would take a different stance if the U.S. stopped the flow of all aid and goods to countries that have declared their hostility to us (most Muslim countries). Then again, the leftist world media would have a field day, and we might even offend someone.

Ok I've heard about refused Tsunami aid and bashes on the muslim countries for long enough and I'm ready to vent.

First lets get one little-known fact out.
In most muslim countries proselytizing is a crime. A serious crime.

You get that? Trying to convert someone to your faith is a crime that can get you prison time in most muslim countries.

Keep that in mind.

Now the reason that Americans are thought so little of in a lot of these countries is the Americans they see most often are missionaries.

And most religious missionaries are as equally concerned with spreading their faith as they are doing humanitarian work. You can see the problems that arise. Half the reason they are there for is against local laws. It doesn't make you popular.

Sorry guys but you can't expect a nation to bend it's laws as a condition for humanitarian aid. So when these nations seem to spit in the face of offered assistance, they're more likely sending a message that you can't take advantage of our need to break our laws.

Any self respecting nation would do the same.

Why is it so hard to see things from the other guys perspective?

Ok I've heard about refused Tsunami aid and bashes on the muslim countries for long enough and I'm ready to vent.

First lets get one little-known fact out.
In most muslim countries proselytizing is a crime. A serious crime.

You get that? Trying to convert someone to your faith is a crime that can get you prison time in most muslim countries.

Keep that in mind.

Now the reason that Americans are thought so little of in a lot of these countries is the Americans they see most often are missionaries.

And most religious missionaries are as equally concerned with spreading their faith as they are doing humanitarian work. You can see the problems that arise. Half the reason they are there for is against local laws. It doesn't make you popular.

Sorry guys but you can't expect a nation to bend it's laws as a condition for humanitarian aid. So when these nations seem to spit in the face of offered assistance, they're more likely sending a message that you can't take advantage of our need to break our laws.

Any self respecting nation would do the same.

Why is it so hard to see things from the other guys perspective?
Yes, obviously United States Marines are there to convert the locals. :rolleyes:

Yes, obviously United States Marines are there to convert the locals. :rolleyes:You miss the obvious reason for distrust of Americans even though I pointed it out for you.


Are you deliberately obtuse?

Yes, obviously United States Marines are there to convert the locals. :rolleyes:

Well put.

Yes, obviously United States Marines are there to convert the locals. :rolleyes:


The US marines have a pretty damn letal way of none conversion, at the very least.

You get that? Trying to convert someone to your faith is a crime that can get you prison time in most muslim countries.
This is why Islam is a barbaric religion, obviously afraid that if someone critically examines its claims, they will conclude it is false.

You miss the obvious reason for distrust of Americans even though I pointed it out for you.

It's IRRELEVENT. These aren't missionaries. They're Marines, Coastguardsmen and sailors with food and medicine.

You miss the obvious reason for distrust of Americans even though I pointed it out for you.

It's IRRELEVENT. These aren't missionaries. They're Marines, Coast Guardsmen and sailors with food and medicine. Period.

This is why Islam is a barbaric religion, obviously afraid that if someone critically examines its claims, they will conclude it is false.
O.o


Letting someone make up their own decision as to their religion and trying to convert someone is two different things. I'd like it if we banned trying to convert people in the US, then I wouldn't have to put up with all the people telling me to bow before Jesus Christ or go to hell and burn.

This was'nt just aimed at Americans. It was aimed at all foreign troops. There are a fair number of troops in the Aceh region from Australia and other nations as well.

One of the fears of the Indonesian governmnent is the history of the mostly Christian Aceh province. It has been fighting for independance from Indonesia for many years, and I think the Indonesian government fear another East Timor, with foreign troops drawn into protecting the freedom of the province if the Aceh "rebels" declare independance.

This is why Islam is a barbaric religion, obviously afraid that if someone critically examines its claims, they will conclude it is false.You still don't get it. It's against the law for muslims to try to convert others too.

It's their way of insuring religious freedom. That freedom includes not constantly enduring attempts to convert you.

You can blame early Christian missionaries for these laws. They're laws of the nations by the way, not specific to Islam. These nations just happen to be predominantly Muslim.

So your post not only discloses ignorance but hints at religious bigotry.

It's IRRELEVENT. These aren't missionaries. They're Marines, Coast Guardsmen and sailors with food and medicine. Period.I must repeat.

Why is it so dificult to see things from the other guys perspective?

If this disaster happened in the US, how would you feel about armed foreign troops in your country? No matter what the reason.






Exactly.

You still don't get it. It's against the law for muslims to try to convert others too.

It's their way of insuring religious freedom. That freedom includes not constantly enduring attempts to convert you.

You can blame early Christian missionaries for these laws. They're laws of the nations by the way, not specific to Islam. These nations just happen to be predominantly Muslim.

So your post not only discloses ignorance but hints at religious bigotry.
I wasn't aware that it was illegal for Muslims to try to convert others too. If that is really the case, I apologize for my misstatement. The last part of my comment still stands though, because there are similar laws in Saudi Arabia, where it is illegal to be any religion but Mohammedan. The whole idea is a crappy way of insuring religious freedom, and "attempts to convert" are really just conversations. If you don't like conversation, or debate, I have a tough time figuring out what you are doing here. And if they can't handdle debate in Indonesia, maybe they aren't civilized. Lack of civilization is commonly termed barbarism. As for bigotry, I am not one, I just have done an extensive amount of research into Islam, and I find many, if not most, of its precepts to be pretty barbaric. These are precepts which are accepted and practiced today by the majority of Muslims. All of which has little to do with the topic of this thread. Sorry.

I wasn't aware that it was illegal for Muslims to try to convert others too. If that is really the case, I apologize for my misstatement. The last part of my comment still stands though, because there are similar laws in Saudi Arabia, where it is illegal to be any religion but Mohammedan. The whole idea is a crappy way of insuring religious freedom, and "attempts to convert" are really just conversations. If you don't like conversation, or debate, I have a tough time figuring out what you are doing here. And if they can't handdle debate in Indonesia, maybe they aren't civilized. Lack of civilization is commonly termed barbarism. As for bigotry, I am not one, I just have done an extensive amount of research into Islam, and I find many, if not most, of its precepts to be pretty barbaric. These are precepts which are accepted and practiced today by the majority of Muslims. All of which has little to do with the topic of this thread. Sorry.
Link?

I must repeat.

Why is it so dificult to see things from the other guys perspective?

If this disaster happened in the US, how would you feel about armed foreign troops in your country? No matter what the reason.

Exactly.Except that would never happen, because we are the most powerful country on Earth. And by the way, the troops over there are not armed.

I must repeat.

Why is it so dificult to see things from the other guys perspective?

If this disaster happened in the US, how would you feel about armed foreign troops in your country? No matter what the reason.






Exactly.
1. I don't live in the United States.
2. It wouldn't be necessary, because the Americans are capable of dealing with their own problems. It is necessary in this case, so the Indonesians had damn well get used to the idea, if they want help.

Yes, obviously United States Marines are there to convert the locals. :rolleyes:

I just have to say, Damn Skippy.

Actually, talking to some of my Indon friends...

The Indonesian government isn't too keen on helping Acheh as well. Because their having a civil war.

Link?Actually, not too many websites. Try reading www.jihadwatch.org as a starting point though. But if you want to comment on Islam, you really have to read the Koran, and then some good commentaries on it, respected commentaries. The Saudi embassy will send you a copy of the Koran if you write and ask for it, and I can give you the titles of some good commentaries if you like.

Indonesians had damn well get used to the idea, if they want help.Even more eloquent than my reply. Mad props.

1. I don't live in the United States.
2. It wouldn't be necessary, because the Americans are capable of dealing with their own problems. It is necessary in this case, so the Indonesians had damn well get used to the idea, if they want help.Ok, so you indirectly answered my question from post #4.






You are deliberately obtuse.

Actually, not too many websites. Try reading www.jihadwatch.org as a starting point though. But if you want to comment on Islam, you really have to read the Koran, and then some good commentaries on it, respected commentaries. The Saudi embassy will send you a copy of the Koran if you write and ask for it, and I can give you the titles of some good commentaries if you like.
Also, http://www.memri.org/ is an excellent resource for finding out what Muslim media is saying, and http://www.danielpipes.org/ will connect you with the man who knows as much Islam as anyone, and he writes really well too.