NationStates Jolt Archive

Lets look at this issue a little more deeply. Before womens rights (Im not talking about voting, Im talking about them working) there werent even near as many fat people as there are today, of course, there are more electronic devices but nevertheless. Before so many women worked, women cooked, almost every night. These were good nutricious healthy meals. Nowadays, it can be take out, fastfood. Big portioned meals, which lead to obesity. Not only that, if both parents are at home, the mother cant say not to eat what they are eating, and cant tell them to play outside or whatever.

Feel free to argue with my (possible rather sexist) views :D

Yor argument almost makes sense, in a circuitous, confusing, and fairly non-existent way...and that's what scares me.

If we go back a little further in time, before wokers rights and trade unions and so on, we find the ideal image of a woman being that as painted by Rubens (http://http://museoprado.mcu.es/i69.html)

Thin women therefore, are the result of socialist thinking?

Just a counter point to you post.

Yor argument almost makes sense, in a circuitous, confusing, and fairly non-existent way...and that's what scares me.

As long as you dont think I am crazy thats ok.

Or, could it be that the result in the change in a nation's face, as 12345543211 described be because of two subsequent wars that forced men overseas and women out of the kitchen and into the work place to keep an economy viable that there was suddenly a need for instant meals and take out....

:rolleyes:

There is some truth in what you are saying... it is one of the known reasons for the obesity epidemic.
However, you are a fucking idiot still.
The obesity epidemic in the U.S., U.K. and Australia (ooh, they're the coalition of the willing in the war against terrorism, coincidence? I think not) is caused by ugly, lazy, ignorant, SUV/4WD driving, recreational fishing, factory-farmed animal eating arseholes that deserve to die from a heart attack anyway. I just wish they wouldn't clog up all the public hospitals as they did it.

Your arguement fails to take into account the fact that women have always worked, out of economic necessity. It was only briefly in the 50's and 60's when there was enough money to go around when women were expected not to work- it was a sign of class not to, because your husband alone could support a family.

However, they were mainly seamstresses, washwomen, and salon managers beforehand, "women's work." It wasn't unheard of for there to be proper tradesmen when, for instance, their husbands were guild masters and died. Women doing "men's work" as commonplace, though, is relatively new.

Still, as most of their work then was sitting, and they worked more hours, your argument still falls apart- It is mere economic ability and a lust for hedonism which leads to obesity in developed countries.

I don't think your point is worth refuting. But alas I feel the need to respond. Although you might be able to find a correlation between womens rights movements and the increase in obiesity, that does not prove that one causes the other. Furthermore, the quest for civil rights is far more important in comparison to the growth of American's beer guts, regardless of your accusations.

Part of it's because the FDA pushed a low fat, high carb diet not too long ago in order to try and reduce the amount of heart attacks caused by fatty foods. But alot of things led up to it, some of it was pure laziness and feeling too stressed to want to actually cook something (in comes fast food), part of it was bad diets, and small parts of it were indeed crackpot theories of your own.

Part of it's because the FDA pushed a low fat, high carb diet not too long ago in order to try and reduce the amount of heart attacks caused by fatty foods. But alot of things led up to it, some of it was pure laziness and feeling too stressed to want to actually cook something (in comes fast food), part of it was bad diets, and small parts of it were indeed crackpot theories of your own.
It's not a crackpot theory, but it's certainly not the one reason for obesity. It is well recognised that because meals aren't as likely to be cooked properly at home by a slave housewife people aren't going to eat as well... but seriously, all the middle-aged/elderly women I come into contact with seem set on feeding me with animal fat saturated food until I explode (I'm 17).





Obesity (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_obe) vs working mothers (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lab_wor_mot)

The original arguement sounded almost right, until I thought about it harder (good thinking though!). I think it is because today cheap food = fatty or unhealthy food. Today we have many more quick and cheap foods than they used back in the day. Yeah, I could spend a bunch of time cooking a balanced meal, but that would come out of my free time. I would rather boil hotdogs or make mac and cheese (think Kraft Diner, but this stuff is 45cents a box). For the last 15 years or so there has been fast food a la McDonalds. Eating out at McDonalds is like eating out, but cheaper (and much less healthy). If I ate at a more upscale restaraunt(sp?) I would choose something healthier in a smaller portion size and more balanced (baked potato, vegetables on the side) than at McDonalds, but it has been about a year or so since I did this. I've never been to a real restaraunt unless my family was paying.

Please, someone play with my arguement and put out your own, more views are better!

The original arguement sounded almost right, until I thought about it harder (good thinking though!). I think it is because today cheap food = fatty or unhealthy food. Today we have many more quick and cheap foods than they used back in the day. Yeah, I could spend a bunch of time cooking a balanced meal, but that would come out of my free time. I would rather boil hotdogs or make mac and cheese (think Kraft Diner, but this stuff is 45cents a box). For the last 15 years or so there has been fast food a la McDonalds. Eating out at McDonalds is like eating out, but cheaper (and much less healthy). If I ate at a more upscale restaraunt(sp?) I would choose something healthier in a smaller portion size and more balanced (baked potato, vegetables on the side) than at McDonalds, but it has been about a year or so since I did this. I've never been to a real restaraunt unless my family was paying.

Please, someone play with my arguement and put out your own, more views are better!

Don't forget the ramen.

The original arguement sounded almost right, until I thought about it harder (good thinking though!). I think it is because today cheap food = fatty or unhealthy food. Today we have many more quick and cheap foods than they used back in the day. Yeah, I could spend a bunch of time cooking a balanced meal, but that would come out of my free time. I would rather boil hotdogs or make mac and cheese (think Kraft Diner, but this stuff is 45cents a box). For the last 15 years or so there has been fast food a la McDonalds. Eating out at McDonalds is like eating out, but cheaper (and much less healthy). If I ate at a more upscale restaraunt(sp?) I would choose something healthier in a smaller portion size and more balanced (baked potato, vegetables on the side) than at McDonalds, but it has been about a year or so since I did this. I've never been to a real restaraunt unless my family was paying.

Please, someone play with my arguement and put out your own, more views are better!

So you're blaming your socioeconomic status on your obesity? (I'm assuming you're overweight/obese with that diet)
Not properly cooking is not a matter of cost, its a matter of bother. You're lazy, really fucking lazy. Seriously, how much effort (or cost, if you're going to push that) does it take to boil pasta, cut up a few mushrooms, a couple tomatoes, tear up some basil, crush some garlic then throw it all together with a few splashes of olive oil? Really yummy, satisfying, cheap and healthy. That's one of about 2 billion really nice, cheap, simple healthy meals that would not only make you thinner (healthier) but also a lot happier... I mean how fucking depressed would eating 45c meals every day of your life make you?

I'm not obese, but I am overweight by a considerable amount. The funniest thing is, is that I eat an average amount of food. Its just my genetics and physical routines that suck. Oh well, I've learned to live with it (baggy shirts).

PS: Just b/c you are obese does not mean you will die of a hard attack. Just because you are thin doesn't mean you won't. My 65 year old grandpa is a health/ fitness nut that averages about 15 marathons a year. He's in better shape than about 80% of th populus. He's broken state records time and time again. However, he has to take cholesterol pills b/c whe nhe had it checked, itt was near 320. Certainly, though, if you are obese you increase your chances of heart attacks and the like.

I'm not obese, but I am overweight by a considerable amount. The funniest thing is, is that I eat an average amount of food. Its just my genetics and physical routines that suck. Oh well, I've learned to live with it (baggy shirts).

PS: Just b/c you are obese does not mean you will die of a hard attack. Just because you are thin doesn't mean you won't. My 65 year old grandpa is a health/ fitness nut that averages about 15 marathons a year. He's in better shape than about 80% of th populus. He's broken state records time and time again. However, he has to take cholesterol pills b/c whe nhe had it checked, itt was near 320. Certainly, though, if you are obese you increase your chances of heart attacks and the like.

So you dont think that it could be what you eat that makes you fat? It doesnt matter how much you eat if you eat shit food.

So you dont think that it could be what you eat that makes you fat? It doesnt matter how much you eat if you eat shit food.

I eat whatever the hell I want, and I still don't gain weight at all. I lived off of ramen for nearly a month and had no health problems whatsoever, as well as no weight gain. Explain that.

I eat whatever the hell I want, and I still don't gain weight at all. I lived off of ramen for nearly a month and had no health problems whatsoever, as well as no weight gain. Explain that.
Yeah. I've weighed a steady 110-120 for about 5 years now. And I eat total junk much of the time, although I'm trying to fix that (but first I need to learn how to actually cook! :p )
It's funny, because those weights are a bit underweight for my height, which is exactly the opposite of what I'd assume.

So you dont think that it could be what you eat that makes you fat? It doesnt matter how much you eat if you eat shit food.

I don't eat "shit" more than most of my leaner friends. Quit making assumptions about things of which you know not.

So you're blaming your socioeconomic status on your obesity? (I'm assuming you're overweight/obese with that diet)
Not properly cooking is not a matter of cost, its a matter of bother. You're lazy, really fucking lazy. Seriously, how much effort (or cost, if you're going to push that) does it take to boil pasta, cut up a few mushrooms, a couple tomatoes, tear up some basil, crush some garlic then throw it all together with a few splashes of olive oil? Really yummy, satisfying, cheap and healthy. That's one of about 2 billion really nice, cheap, simple healthy meals that would not only make you thinner (healthier) but also a lot happier... I mean how fucking depressed would eating 45c meals every day of your life make you?

I could spend a bunch of time cooking a balanced meal, but that would come out of my free time. I would rather boil hotdogs or make mac and cheese (think Kraft Diner, but this stuff is 45cents a box).

I stated socio-economic reasons, but I also stated that I was really, fucking, lazy. I would rather eat the meal you described (all in all, I would also prefer to be a vegetarian).

I would then also like to point out some of the other facts that relate to how I eat:
-I have no cooking ability (have to call home to ask how to make most stuff above pasta, rice, hotdogs)
-I don't know any good recipies. You have to acknowledge that there are ways to throw together the things you mentioned and have it taste bad.
-I don't exactly think ahead about my meals, usually I think I'm hungry for supper now at 8PM and eat whatever is around. I have trouble pulling something out of the freezer beforehand, let alone going to a store and buying all the aformentioned shwag and remembering to buy it all.
-I think cooking the meal you listed would take a lot of effort, considering I'm used to going from thinking I'm hungry to eathing KD in 8 minutes.
-The foods you mentioned don't keep as well as KD, hotdogs, or frozen meat.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to change my diet. As you said, eating 45cent meals is shitty. Don't give me up as a lost cause. With enough research and self training, I could be eating healthy in a month. My apathy, unpreparedness, lack of cooking know-how, coupled with the fact that I just moved out of home and my mother and sister did about 75% of the cooking. That being said, if you could suggest a few good recipies, I would most certainly try them. :-)

Don't forget the ramen.
Whats ramen?

What people keep doing is comparing the present to the past! Look at what has happened, how society has changed, social class, technology loads of thing have changed. This includes womens attitudes to being a housewife.

I have to say that I do agree with what you said, but it the fault lies in society. :eek:

I would have to say that people being fat and thin has been a trait that goes back and forth, though now it seems to be effecting younger people, who didn't used to be effected as much.

I would blame things like the microwave, something that makes meals fast and easy, while at the same time destroys a good portion of the proteins and other valuable qualities of the food.

We seem to thrive off fast food, east to make meals, that are full of perservatives, additives, sugars, salts, fats, and everything else our bodies don't like having in the amounts we shove down our throats. Then, when the obesity rate goes up, we make new ways of getting thin, we make pop that has less sugar, instead of cutting back on our intake, we make foods that are more carb friendly, still not cutting back, less fat, less of everything, but still no self control.

The reason for obiesity is simple, lacking of moderation.

Yeah, sometimes it isn't what you eat or even how much you excerise. In a side by side comparison, I do more physical activity than my roomy and we eat exactly the same type and amount of food. He is 120 pounds and I am... not.

nope

Whats ramen?
A kind of noodles.

Dangerously addictive noodles. Not literally. They're really easy to cook and they taste decent, although I'm sure they have little nutritional value, but they're a damn sight better than fast food, I guess.

Wow, that sentence was too long.

There is some truth in what you are saying... it is one of the known reasons for the obesity epidemic.
However, you are a fucking idiot still.
The obesity epidemic in the U.S., U.K. and Australia (ooh, they're the coalition of the willing in the war against terrorism, coincidence? I think not) is caused by ugly, lazy, ignorant, SUV/4WD driving, recreational fishing, factory-farmed animal eating arseholes that deserve to die from a heart attack anyway. I just wish they wouldn't clog up all the public hospitals as they did it.
I reckon we should all eat orgainc food... Then when all the crops have a crappy
yeild we can have a fammine, yay! There are too many people in the world to feed with this kind of thinking. Obesity is caused by the car. Sell your car and I guarantee you will loose weight, out ot the stress of using public transport or riding a bike.

A kind of noodles.

Dangerously addictive noodles. Not literally. They're really easy to cook and they taste decent, although I'm sure they have little nutritional value, but they're a damn sight better than fast food, I guess.

Wow, that sentence was too long.

cook them in about 5 minutes, boil up water, drop noodles in for 3 minutes, and then mix in the spices.

good meal in a pinch, and if you toss in some of your own spices, even yummier.

cook them in about 5 minutes, boil up water, drop noodles in for 3 minutes, and then mix in the spices.

good meal in a pinch, and if you toss in some of your own spices, even yummier.
Yeah. The chicken ones aren't too bad with chili powder/chili pepper flakes.

cook them in about 5 minutes, boil up water, drop noodles in for 3 minutes, and then mix in the spices.

good meal in a pinch, and if you toss in some of your own spices, even yummier.

No, actually I don't eat those. If I want to eat pasta, I'll make pasta.

Yeah. The chicken ones aren't too bad with chili powder/chili pepper flakes.

yeah, I love the chicken ones, and I've mixed chili powder with them often, more when I have a cold and such, cause the extra peppers and chili's help clear the throat.

No, actually I don't eat those. If I want to eat pasta, I'll make pasta.

I don't always have time to cook the noodles, I have 2 kids, one being 2 one being almost 1, kinda takes up my free time.

Plus the other noodles are cheaper.

Though I do enjoy a good pasta meal, though I can't eat red sauce as well, damn reflux.

Stick the finger in the mouth, out the food it goes!!

ANd you'll still feel full! Hurrah!

Just kidding :D

Now someone's going to scold me for not being sensitive towards bulimic people.

I have to say that I do agree with what you said, but it the fault lies in society. :eek:
Society is nothing more than a mass of individuals, each of which need to take some fucking responsibility for their own ills.

People are fat because they eat too much, or too much of the wrong things, or they don't exercise. Some people do have metabolic disorders, but that ain't enough to explain the epidemic of obesity sweeping the US. So get off your(this is a generalized "you") ass and run a mile and quit blaming your mother's "radical" liberation agenda.

Society is nothing more than a mass of individuals, each of which need to take some fucking responsibility for their own ills.

People are fat because they eat too much, or too much of the wrong things, or they don't exercise. Some people do have metabolic disorders, but that ain't enough to explain the epidemic of obesity sweeping the US. So get off your(this is a generalized "you") ass and run a mile and quit blaming your mother's "radical" liberation agenda.

Yay!

Lets look at this issue a little more deeply. Before womens rights (Im not talking about voting, Im talking about them working) there werent even near as many fat people as there are today, of course, there are more electronic devices but nevertheless. Before so many women worked, women cooked, almost every night. These were good nutricious healthy meals. Nowadays, it can be take out, fastfood. Big portioned meals, which lead to obesity. Not only that, if both parents are at home, the mother cant say not to eat what they are eating, and cant tell them to play outside or whatever.

Feel free to argue with my (possible rather sexist) views :D

People don't have to rely on subservient women in the kitchen ensuring they get good nutricious meals. I'm single at the moment, and I am neither fat nor malnurished. If people are to lazy to cook good meals for themselves, then it's their own fault. Don't try blaming Women who want more from life than domestic servitude.

(Just as an aside, are you afraid of assertive women?)

cook them in about 5 minutes, boil up water, drop noodles in for 3 minutes, and then mix in the spices.

good meal in a pinch, and if you toss in some of your own spices, even yummier.

They are also great if when boiling the noodles you toss an egg into the water at the same time as the noodles. I personally put the noodles an egg and the seasoning in all at the same time and it is delicious.

It actually has little to do with women being at home and cooking, as alot of these 'healthy homecooked' meals were full of fat anyways. It's because of portion control(people made less food because there was less money to go around, also families tended to be larger) and exercise. This was before people moved out of the cities and into suburbs, there was alot more within walking distance.

Bigger portions and less exercise makes people fat, not women working.

Yor argument almost makes sense, in a circuitous, confusing, and fairly non-existent way...and that's what scares me.


didn't yo use a similar argument to suggest that crime has gone up over 50 years since people started having sex younger?

Nowadays, it can be take out, fastfood.
I blame individual stupidity for constantly eating unhealthy takeout/fastfood.

And besides, the only fast food place I eat anymore is Qdoba Grill - now thats fast *and* healthy!

Lets look at this issue a little more deeply. Before womens rights (Im not talking about voting, Im talking about them working) there werent even near as many fat people as there are today, of course, there are more electronic devices but nevertheless. Before so many women worked, women cooked, almost every night. These were good nutricious healthy meals. Nowadays, it can be take out, fastfood. Big portioned meals, which lead to obesity. Not only that, if both parents are at home, the mother cant say not to eat what they are eating, and cant tell them to play outside or whatever.

Feel free to argue with my (possible rather sexist) views :D
I know what you mean. Before Ronald Reagan got into office there was no AIDS.

EDIT: /sarcasm

Lets look at this issue a little more deeply. Before womens rights (Im not talking about voting, Im talking about them working) there werent even near as many fat people as there are today, of course, there are more electronic devices but nevertheless. Before so many women worked, women cooked, almost every night. These were good nutricious healthy meals. Nowadays, it can be take out, fastfood. Big portioned meals, which lead to obesity. Not only that, if both parents are at home, the mother cant say not to eat what they are eating, and cant tell them to play outside or whatever.

Feel free to argue with my (possible rather sexist) views :D
Is that because men stupid?

I'm not obese, but I am overweight by a considerable amount. The funniest thing is, is that I eat an average amount of food. Its just my genetics and physical routines that suck. Oh well, I've learned to live with it (baggy shirts).

PS: Just b/c you are obese does not mean you will die of a hard attack. Just because you are thin doesn't mean you won't. My 65 year old grandpa is a health/ fitness nut that averages about 15 marathons a year. He's in better shape than about 80% of th populus. He's broken state records time and time again. However, he has to take cholesterol pills b/c whe nhe had it checked, itt was near 320. Certainly, though, if you are obese you increase your chances of heart attacks and the like.

Heart attack, not hard attack.

I thought ramen were intelligent aliens that we could communicate with.

read Speaker for the dead by Orson scott card.

People don't have to rely on subservient women in the kitchen ensuring they get good nutricious meals. I'm single at the moment, and I am neither fat nor malnurished. If people are to lazy to cook good meals for themselves, then it's their own fault. Don't try blaming Women who want more from life than domestic servitude.

(Just as an aside, are you afraid of assertive women?)

Im not saying women shouldnt have rights or anything, Im just saying that if they didnt work (the way things used to be) not as many people would be fat. But we have to factor in that 50 years ago, and earlier, kids were always outside, playing on the streets, with their friends. Now they're all inside, there is also TV electronics. That kind of thing. And of course, 50 years ago, kids played outside and their was tv, but cable had 8 stations, and non cable had 3 stations.

But the problem is, people are just soooo lazy. Its rediculous, studys show, if you exersize (and that means, running, riding your bike (vigorously) and that kind of thing) Wont be overwight as often, thats unnaceptable, just 30 minutes out of your time.

And our culture promotes laziness.

Lets look at this issue a little more deeply. Before womens rights (Im not talking about voting, Im talking about them working) there werent even near as many fat people as there are today, of course, there are more electronic devices but nevertheless. Before so many women worked, women cooked, almost every night. These were good nutricious healthy meals.
a point made already in Supersize Me.

But so what? We used to have really nice cotton cheaply because the people picking it didn't get paid...that doesn't mean we should go back to that system.

Besides, I have the cure for obesity (in the 98% of cases that aren't related to a real medical condition): stop eating like a starved animal all the time, eat something decent instead of a big wad of fat with salt on it, and get outside now and then for a walk instead of sitting there on jolt forums bloating over the sides of your chair.