NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050116/ts_nm/iran_usa_newyorker_dc

It seems the US have been conducting secret missions inside Iran. Read the article before you post please.

Gee the US is doing flyovers over Iran, I wonder what they are up to? I'm guessing the US is hoping Iran will shoot down an american plane (which they would be fully entitled to do) so that they will have a pretext for an invasion. As if things weren't bad enough, the Neocons are trying to cook up another Gulf of Tonkin incident. Hopefully Iran isn't stupid enough to fall into this little trap.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050116/ts_nm/iran_usa_newyorker_dc

It seems the US have been conducting secret missions inside Iran. Read the article before you post please.
This is nothing new.

not a big surprise.

As if things weren't bad enough, the Neocons are trying to cook up another Gulf of Tonkin incident.
No, I don't think so. Even the most rabid "neocon," as you style them, is aware that the US military is already streatched rather thin. My take on this is that we are doing our best to keep tabs on potential threats so that they can be delt with before an atomic or biological 9/11.

Go for it. Invade Iran. There's nothing on TV.

No, I don't think so. Even the most rabid "neocon," as you style them, is aware that the US military is already streatched rather thin. My take on this is that we are doing our best to keep tabs on potential threats so that they can be delt with before an atomic or biological 9/11.
Well, we have satelites which could do that. They are also probably probing the Iranian air defenses in preparation for the invasion which is probably coming in the next few years.

Well, we have satelites which could do that. They are also probably probing the Iranian air defenses in preparation for the invasion which is probably coming in the next few years.
What ... ever! :headbang:

Gee the US is doing flyovers over Iran, I wonder what they are up to? I'm guessing the US is hoping Iran will shoot down an american plane (which they would be fully entitled to do) so that they will have a pretext for an invasion. As if things weren't bad enough, the Neocons are trying to cook up another Gulf of Tonkin incident. Hopefully Iran isn't stupid enough to fall into this little trap.


No not fly overs, we're apparently using commandos on the ground to look for underground nuclear sites. Our people have been supplied with info from Abdul Qadeer Khan, the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb and the guy who's been helping Iran and North Korea. This is the shit.

They're looking where to drop and not drop bombs.

Eutrusca's right - I doubt that there is a single nation that the US ( and most all of the other major nations on the planet ) hasn't done various sorts of 'secret missions' in, over and through...None of the major nations have ever taken the 'military option' off the board, or out of their planning.

And given various factors are we really surprized that some inside the current administration are backing this?

No not fly overs, we're apparently using commandos on the ground to look for underground nuclear sites. Our people have been supplied with info from Abdul Qadeer Khan, the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb and the guy who's been helping Iran and North Korea. This is the shit.

They're looking where to drop and not drop bombs.
Considering the uproar over the presence or absence of WMD in Iraq, I see this as merely prudent.

First: With the recon overflights there's a reason to use planes rather than satellites. The planes are far more capable at certain types of pictures, and sometimes their cameras are better than the satellite cameras as well.

Second: The special ops guys are being used as intelligence forces, as the end of the article says, to get around rules that restrict the CIA.

You won't getting any help from Britain this time. Assuming Tony wins this election, he'll lose the next one for certain if he promptly takes us into another damn war we don't want to fight in. :sniper:

You won't getting any help from Britain this time. Assuming Tony wins this election, he'll lose the next one for certain if he promptly takes us into another damn war we don't want to fight in. :sniper:
Assuming we're trying to get into a war...

Well the front line troops that initially invaded Iraq are getting rested, refitted, and retrained, and the Reserves and Guard are holding Iraq now. Bush may feel he has an Invasion force he can use soon.

Don't tell me Bush doesn't have one of these lists in the Oval Office.

- Iraq May 1st, 2004: Got to fly in a jet! Holy shit! Mission Acomplished!
- Iran Operation Irani Freedom: TBA
- North Korea Funny Haircut, his name is Kim, too. What a loser.
- Canada <- Leave off of Axis of Evil list for now

I'm not surprised. In any war, some of the best operations are those no one knows about.

I'm actually not really suprised either. Though if we could proove that Iran DOES have WMD and they are using their nuclear programm to develop WMD, then we are almost certain to get other nations onboard. And it looks like Pakistan is already willing to help.

I'm actually not really suprised either. Though if we could proove that Iran DOES have WMD and they are using their nuclear programm to develop WMD, then we are almost certain to get other nations onboard. And it looks like Pakistan is already willing to help.

Well we can prove the United States has WMD.. what on earth should we do? Perhaps a "secret mission" is in order? LOL

Well we can prove the United States has WMD.. what on earth should we do? Perhaps a "secret mission" is in order? LOL

I'm sure just about every country that could do it already has, just like we do it to everyone else.

You make it sound like this is something new or unexpected

I'm sure just about every country that could do it already has, just like we do it to everyone else.

You make it sound like this is something new or unexpected

Oh, I'm sorry, please note the "LOL" :)

Oh, I'm sorry, please note the "LOL" :)

Ah, usually I'll use tags so people don't get confused like

Bush sure is popular over at the NS formus
[/sarcasm]

At least the neocons are doing their homework this time. I know they're not used to it. :)

I'm not really surprised by the story. We've got spies even in our "allied" countries. A lot of times they're diplomats or disillusioned people who work for their country's governmet. I know. I watch the Discover channel. :p :D

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050116/ts_nm/iran_usa_newyorker_dc

It seems the US have been conducting secret missions inside Iran. Read the article before you post please.

Wow, why not say the sun is gonna come up tomorrow? Of course the US is spying on Iran, they have made it no secret they are trying to build a nuke.

I was disappointed in the article, I was hoping it would expose something new, all it said was this "The US is spying on Iran and several other middle eastern countries." Why not just say "The US is spying on Iran and the rest of the world." because we are always spying on people, Russia, China, France, Germany, UK, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, North Korea. I am sure we have agents in all those countries and many more.

Well we can prove the United States has WMD.. what on earth should we do? Perhaps a "secret mission" is in order? LOL

Yes, but the US wouldnt sale them to terrorist organizations. And the US isnt going to go and just use them on a nation, because of AMD.

Ok, correct me when I'm wrong.. speaking strictly nuclear here, isn't the United States the only country on the face of the earth to ever actually use them? I think so, thus why are we so worried about other countries that have them? Shouldn't we be worrying about the one that not only has them, but has used them?

Ok, correct me when I'm wrong.. speaking strictly nuclear here, isn't the United States the only country on the face of the earth to ever actually use them? I think so, thus why are we so worried about other countries that have them? Shouldn't we be worrying about the one that not only has them, but has used them?

Wow. The use of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved millions of lives, allied and japanese alike. Comparing the use of two bombs of exponentially smaller yield than todays megaton weapons is a terrible example of blatent biasness, plus the US is only going to use WMD's as weapons of last resort where as these terrorists groups are likely to use a nuke as a first strike option.

In wartime, yes. But every nation today that has a nuclear weapon has used one. They were tested all the time, and in order to test them, they would have to use it.

Ok, correct me when I'm wrong.. speaking strictly nuclear here, isn't the United States the only country on the face of the earth to ever actually use them? I think so, thus why are we so worried about other countries that have them? Shouldn't we be worrying about the one that not only has them, but has used them?

Your ignorance is amazing. The US only dropped those bombs as a last resort, places and people like Iran and Osama would use them to start wars and goad people into following them.

Wow. The use of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved millions of lives, allied and japanese alike. Comparing the use of two bombs of exponentially smaller yield than todays megaton weapons is a terrible example of blatent biasness, plus the US is only going to use WMD's as weapons of last resort where as these terrorists groups are likely to use a nuke as a first strike option.

Could another country not make the same argument if they were at war? How exactly would it be different? I'm sorry, I don't get it. Using them is using them. From what I understand from history class Japan wanted to surrender weeks before the bombs were dropped. So, I'm not exactly sure if I'm following your logic here. You imply any one not friendly to the USA shouldn't have them, yes? :confused:

Your ignorance is amazing

Now is there any reason to be rude? I'm simply discussing an issue. I'm not saying any thing other than exploring possibilities.. your extreme jump to be rude to me doesn't help any one understand any thing except you're rude. Now please, it's not called for! Please try to exercise some self control or a level of maturity please.

Your ignorance is amazing. The US only dropped those bombs as a last resort, places and people like Iran and Osama would use them to start wars and goad people into following them.
Just like Pakistan and Russia has? They have been "the" enemy too and neither of them has ever used nuclear weapons.

Really, if people want to discuss a subject in a mature way, please check your nationalism at the door. The discussion will be better served.

I'm actually not really suprised either. Though if we could proove that Iran DOES have WMD and they are using their nuclear programm to develop WMD, then we are almost certain to get other nations onboard. And it looks like Pakistan is already willing to help.

Pakistan willing to help...is this the same Pakistan that has announced that it already has developed its own WMDs and has on several occasions been engaged in sabre-rattling with its nuclear-armed neighbour?

The same Pakistan that is led by a military government after a coup?

The same Pakistan that many believe is where Osama bin Laden is hiding out?

Or is it simply the case that Pakistans' WMDs, like those of the US, are "nice" and "responsible" WMDs ?

WMDs are fine for Pakistan, but not Iran?

Please explain the supposed "logic" behind this rather amazing assertion.

Don't forget the responsible super secret wmds that israel has !
I wouldn't be suprised if they are the ones to drop the first bomb in this one in spoofed planes of course we wouldn't want them to know israel is involved in attacking them it might wake up the whole region.
The point is iraq, iran, syria, ect are enemys of israel that is the whole reason for the gulf war besides their oil.
Elusive, invisible, fake, wmd storys are simply the excuse to attack.
911 is going to be a picnic compared to what is going to come down on these fuckers for what they are doing, but the shame is it's always innocent civilians that get killed on all sides and never the guilty.

Wow, why not say the sun is gonna come up tomorrow? Of course the US is spying on Iran, they have made it no secret they are trying to build a nuke.

I was disappointed in the article, I was hoping it would expose something new, all it said was this "The US is spying on Iran and several other middle eastern countries." Why not just say "The US is spying on Iran and the rest of the world." because we are always spying on people, Russia, China, France, Germany, UK, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, North Korea. I am sure we have agents in all those countries and many more.
....You Forgot Poland.

Pakistan willing to help...is this the same Pakistan that has announced that it already has developed its own WMDs and has on several occasions been engaged in sabre-rattling with its nuclear-armed neighbour?

The same Pakistan that is led by a military government after a coup?

The same Pakistan that many believe is where Osama bin Laden is hiding out?

Or is it simply the case that Pakistans' WMDs, like those of the US, are "nice" and "responsible" WMDs ?

WMDs are fine for Pakistan, but not Iran?

Please explain the supposed "logic" behind this rather amazing assertion.

Yes, those Pakistani's. The ones who are helping us hunt down Osama. The ones who fight for what they belive in. We are ok with them having WMD for the same reason we are ok with Germany, or France or even the UK having them. They dont pose a threat to us, at least, at the moment.

Yes, those Pakistani's. The ones who are helping us hunt down Osama. The ones who fight for what they belive in. We are ok with them having WMD for the same reason we are ok with Germany, or France or even the UK having them. They dont pose a threat to us, at least, at the moment.

Don't forget the cia trained bin laden, and the us sold chemical weapons to iraq because they weren't a threat either.
Then again the big corporations wouldn't be making all that money from defence contracts if someone wasn't making enemys.

Yes, those Pakistani's. The ones who are helping us hunt down Osama. The ones who fight for what they belive in. We are ok with them having WMD for the same reason we are ok with Germany, or France or even the UK having them. They dont pose a threat to us, at least, at the moment.

Ah, as I suspected then.

The ones with the "nice" WMDs.

And "fight for what they believe in"....compared to what precisely? Osama bin Laden surely fights for what he believes in. That is hardly a virtue.

Well, the last time we tried to figure out whether or not a country had WMD, we let some local person with an axe to grind fill our intel reports full of crap.

It's obviously a much better idea to have your own people on the ground, who can bring you back a photo and some samples.

If the teams that go in can't bring back hard evidence (and I mean bona fide hard evidence), then you don't have any evidence.

The last time, we had speculation and conjecture. So, when it turns out that we invade (people react and say it's not enough evidence) and search and don't find anything (people react and say we were idiots) it's a bad thing.

So, if we don't find hard evidence, we don't invade. If we do find hard evidence, the people who ordinarly object on the basis of "not enough evidence" and "the WMD weren't there" will have to STFU.

....You Forgot Poland.
Hey, Hollystan! How is this poster adding to the discussion? You reprimanded the other one, how about this one? :)

I agree with this; mistakes happen far more often with poor intelligence. Simply put; no one really knows WHAT is happening in Iran right now, most of our reports are second and third hand. They SAY that they are not pursuing Nukes, but there is some evidence to the contrary, a history of deception, and very little reason for them to not try.

It would be exceedingly hard for the US to make a reasoned policy choice without first knowing what is actually going on. It IS possible that Iran is building a worst case scenerio for the world and an invasion is needed to put a stop to it. I find this highly unlikely, since its far more reasonable for them to simply build a few bombs and hang on to them for their political survival.

But Israel has already hinted strongly that they will use military action if the sitution doesn't improve, or if the US doesn't put a stop to any Iranian attemtps to build nukes. A surgical strike might also be appropriate, but WE DON'T KNOW!

Too much guesswork, assumptions, and extrapolations; far too few cold, hard facts. We need first hand intelligence before anything else can go foreward. We should have been "spying" on them and all other likely WMD creators for years now.

It's astounding the overall levels of ignorance on some of these threads. Most you guys must be in high school.

"The cia trained bin Laden" - no, bin Laden never had contact with any Americans. Most contact with the Mujeheddin was done through Pakistan's intelligence service, the ISI. Funding and equipment was done through them.


"I wouldn't be suprised if they are the ones to drop the first bomb in this one in spoofed planes of course we wouldn't want them to know israel is involved in attacking them it might wake up the whole region."

Israel is looking for them more than the US is. The Israelis bombed the crap out of Iraq's nuclear reactor in the '80s. There's no reason to think they wouldn't hit Iran's as well.

The problem is that Iran learned from Iraq's mistake and has their nuclear facilities more spread out and in better hidden locations. That's why intelligence gathering is being done.

Could another country not make the same argument if they were at war? How exactly would it be different? I'm sorry, I don't get it. Using them is using them. From what I understand from history class Japan wanted to surrender weeks before the bombs were dropped. So, I'm not exactly sure if I'm following your logic here.

Was Japan ready to surrender? Yes.

Had they made any attempts to surrender? No.

The bombs were dropped to force Japan to surrender and save millions on both sides, they did exactly this, they were not just simply used to kill as many people as possible like a terrorists most likely would, their purpose was to end the war as soon as possible with as few losses as possible.

You imply any one not friendly to the USA shouldn't have them, yes? :confused:[/QUOTE]

No, I do not imply that, I imply that terrorists who have nothing to lose would not hesitate to use nukes on a heavily populated area, New York, Washington, Tokyo, Mexico City, Beijing, Paris, London, Moscow, Jerusalem, where ever.

Israel is looking for them more than the US is. The Israelis bombed the crap out of Iraq's nuclear reactor in the '80s. There's no reason to think they wouldn't hit Iran's as well.

Well, Iran did give the Israeli's the information needed to be able to bomb Iraq's reactor that was being used to "harvest" the uranium for a dirty bomb. Which is what it would have been, the Iraqi scientists who were building the bomb knew they could not meet Saddam's deadline with an atom splitting Nuclear weapon, so they convinced Saddam that bursting a bomb filled with depleted Uranium over enemy concentrations, the radiation sickness most likely would have disabled hundreds of thousands of enemy troops if they were concentrated enough and if the winds carried the radiation in the right direction.

Don't forget the cia trained bin laden, and the us sold chemical weapons to iraq because they weren't a threat either.
Then again the big corporations wouldn't be making all that money from defence contracts if someone wasn't making enemys.

Why do people always forget that we gave shit to Iraq and Iran so they could simply kill each other off, making each other weaker. Remember the Iran-Contra Scandal? We gave supplies to Iraq, money to Iran, playing both ends against the middle, and hey, Iraq might have one the War with Iran but did it really do them that much good in the end? Iran winning would have been much worse, they were already in Iraq and had Baghdad surrounded, Israel would have been screwed if Iran would have won.